Vorsprung Announces Smashpot Coil Conversion Kit

Jan 29, 2019
by Vorsprung Suspension  
Vorsprung Smashpot coil conversion kit

PRESS RELEASE: Vorsprung Suspension

Run over everything.

When you just want the best bump-eating suspension quality possible no matter what, there still isn't a match for the age-old coil spring. And we'd know - we've been at the forefront of air spring development for years, pushing air spring performance closer to that of coils.

We present to you the Smashpot - a fork coil spring conversion system for singlecrown enduro forks, featuring externally adjustable hydraulic anti-bottoming technology to deliver precisely the amount of bottoming resistance you need.

Why Coil?
Air springs have gotten better and better over the years, and they've been around for so long now that some people have never ridden a coil spring. Yeah, coils are heavier than air, and for some riders that alone is a dealbreaker - fair enough. The advantages of coil springs, however, are clear:
• Zero stiction or friction in a coil spring. And there never will be.
• Zero spring rate variation - linear, predictable, supple, supportive and consistent.
• Zero moving seals in the spring system to wear out or leak.
• Zero effect on spring rate from temperature or elevation.
• More bath oil - lubrication and service life are improved.
• Day in, day out, the fork just straight up feels good.

In short, improvements in sensitivity, grip, compliance, mid-stroke support and consistency, with reductions in harshness and hand pain.

Vorsprung Smashpot coil conversion kit

Weight aside, air springs outperform coil springs in one critical way: bottoming resistance.

Enter the Smashpot.

Externally adjustable, speed sensitive, hydraulic bottoming control valve
At the heart of the Smashpot is a hydraulic anti-bottoming system that engages seamlessly and progressively over the last 50mm of travel, utilising a speed sensitive shimmed valve to effectively manage high energy and low energy inputs without harshness. Easy tool-free external adjustment ensures you get precisely what you need.

Vorsprung Smashpot coil conversion kit

Why go this route?
Unlike conventional hydraulic anti-bottoming cones, the longer displacement over which it is effective and its speed-sensitive shimmed valve means the Smashpot can dissipate more energy at lower forces, bringing the fork to a gentle stop at the end of the travel in a smooth, controlled manner.

Compared to alternatives such as elastomer or pneumatic bump stops, the Smashpot doesn't involve components physically colliding mid-travel. Unlike air springs and pneumatic bump stops, it dissipates kinetic energy rather than storing it and throwing it back at you, further stabilising the bike. There's no spring stiction, fewer wearing seals, fewer seals to fail, and no need for a shock pump - ever.

Vorsprung Smashpot coil conversion kit

Smashpot Features:
• Compatible with Fox 36 and Rockshox Pike/Lyrik/Yari/Revelation (35mm) forks. Other fitments under development.
• 130-180mm travel, internally set using included spacers.
• Full tool-free control over bottoming resistance.
• 11 coil spring rates available, from 30lbs/in to 80lbs/in precision wound in 5lbs/in increments.
• Rider weights from 45kg (100lbs) to 125kg (275lbs) catered for.
• Universal cartridge kits require only new top caps to be moved between different forks (and foot studs if different fork brands).
• Springs are guided and isolated both internally and externally to reduce spring buckling, minimising noise.
• Spring guiding system also means less rubbing, less wear and less contamination of the bath oil.
• More bath oil for improved lubrication and smoothness.
• Cheaper and more adjustable than comparable competing coil conversion kits.
• Only coil conversion on the market allowing 180mm travel.
• Easy and cost-effective to transfer from one fork to another.
• Allows full use of travel even for light, smooth riders.
• Prevents harsh bottoming.
• Reliable and low maintenance.
• User installable.
• Designed, developed and manufactured in Whistler, Canada.
• Weight increase of between 250-450g (dependent on spring rate and fork).
• MSRP $420.69CAD (approximately $315USD)
• Kit includes universal Smashpot cartridge, fork-specific topcap and one spring.
• Replacement springs MSRP $80CAD (approximately $60USD)

Vorsprung Smashpot

What are the downsides of the Smashpot?
• It adds between 250-450g to your fork, depending on spring rate and the type of air spring previously in your fork. If this bothers you, you may be more interested in a Luftkappe.
• Going back to air, should you wish to, may not be an option - spring rub may score the inside of your stanchion, so the the piston may not seal again. We doubt you'll want to after riding the Smashpot though!
• Changing spring rates requires physically changing a spring, not just connecting your shock pump.
• As with any aftermarket modifications, it should be expected to void the fork manufacturer's warranty.
• We recommend riders requiring spring rates of 65lbs/in or higher also consider a damper revalve - stock dampers lack adequate rebound control for these spring rates.

Our engineering and design are straightforward and no-BS, so we think our marketing should be too: if your first priority for your fork is outright performance, get yourself a Smashpot.

Available now directly from Vorsprung or your local dealer.


MENTIONS: @VorsprungSuspension



235 Comments

  • + 175
 A coil that behaves like air all the while air is trying to behave like a coil. Mountain biking is a confusing sport to an outsider.
  • + 26
 But at 150mm it behaves like coil for the first 2/3 of the travel... This sounds dope!
  • + 99
 They're essentially trying to meet in the middle because they each have pros and cons. Coils are heavy and don't ramp up but have no friction or stiction and feel rad all the time, air springs are light and ramp up well but are prone to initial stiffness, friction/stiction and need more attention.

For what it's worth, we have more air spring stuff in the works, we certainly aren't abandoning it.
  • + 4
 @VorsprungSuspension: Eh, to that. I like it and maybe one day when my lyrik is feeling crappy and tired, I'll consider this. The price, considering what the rest of the industry is doing, is pretty good. Good luck, I think it will do well.
  • + 8
 @VorsprungSuspension: I gotta tell you, in Eastern Washington we get temps that vary from upper 70's to lower 30's in the span of a few hours and fiddling with air pressures all the time is painful. You have solved two problems with coil conversions: Progressiveness, and getting over the 160mm limit. Was thinking of upgrading my Yari to a Lyrik, but this seems a wayyyyy better option. Do we get stickers to put on the forks?
  • + 53
 @VorsprungSuspension: Waitaminute... is that price really $420.69?
  • + 123
 @Thustlewhumber: Yep, that's really the price. It was going to be $419.99 but the stickers pushed the price up by $0.70.
  • + 6
 @VorsprungSuspension: Come on did Remy M price this?
  • + 20
 @rideonjon: Remy is an inspirational rider.
  • + 3
 @VorsprungSuspension: I am just curious if much effort has been put into progressive coil springs? On motorcycles I have always immediately removed such springs and trashed them for linear springs with digressive cartridges/shock (completely different use case than MTB though).

My point I know a lot of motorcycles come with progressive coil springs by design, and if this has been explored for MTB springs.
  • + 15
 @rndholesqpeg: it's been tried several times with varying results (mostly not great). It has generally resulted in heavier, more expensive and longer springs, although MRP just released a progressive shock spring that's actually quite light, hopefully it's strong enough to last as it's very easy to overstress springs.

We looked at it when designing the Smashpot, it just wasn't worthwhile for this application - hard to get substantial additional force without more weight and/or higher risk of spring failure, plus it lacks the adjustability. Snowmobile shocks for example usually use progressive springs and they have by far the highest rate of spring failure of any vehicle suspension I've ever seen.
  • + 1
 @VorsprungSuspension: What about square section wire springs?
  • + 2
 @VorsprungSuspension: going to be available in Aus? Do you have a $au price yet? Mountain bikes direct? NSD?
  • + 3
 @Thustlewhumber: Great news for Yari owners. Makes it instantly better than the top of the line Lyrick, and probably less frequent service intervals and better reliability.
  • + 4
 @FCX250: Heavier and/or more failure prone than round sections unfortunately. There's a reason nobody uses that setup.
  • + 3
 @Rimrider26: both those guys have stock en route already.
  • + 2
 @VorsprungSuspension:
COOL, anything for xfusion Metric??
  • + 1
 @goytay: not at this time sorry.
  • + 2
 @FCX250: square section springs are heavier for given spring rate and travel. round section is ideal. That's because the wire is in torsion as well as bending, round section is best. Well a ever so slightly elliptical might be slightly better but not much. Square cross section can let you get higher spring rate in a given diameter, but will be heavier.
  • + 2
 @Thustlewhumber: 315 USD, no?
  • + 1
 @VorsprungSuspension: As far as i know, making progressive springs with precise spring rates (as required for MTB suspension) is tricky at best and not possible at reasonable pricepoints.

Does that still hold true or has manufacturing improved so much that this is no longer a concern?
  • + 5
 @Flowcheckers: i don‘t know man, the motion control will still be shit ... i rode a boxxer rc and upgrading to a charger has made such a huge difference ... the reason for the harshness is the damper, not the air spring
  • + 1
 @VorsprungSuspension: so pardon my ignorance, but why not sleeve the csu portion of the spring in a lexan tube?
That way fence sitters could go back to air for selling or other purposes
  • + 1
 @gotohe11carolina: He answered that somewhere else in the comments, but basically it wouldn't work.
  • + 1
 @gotohe11carolina: unfortunately there's no sealhead at the bottom of the stanchion to hold that in place because the Smashpot assembly has the coil extend out past the stanchion end, otherwise we would liked to have done that. Basically a plastic sleeve inside the stanchion would end up mashed to pieces and jammed in your bushings.
  • + 0
 @VorsprungSuspension: Will they void my warranty when I have to send my forks back every 6 months to get the crowns replaced because they’re creaking and if I was to change from say a 36 to a lyrik could I adapt it to work or would I need to buy a whole different kit?
  • + 2
 @thenotoriousmic: It would be interesting hey? If the vendors start looking for signs of coil spring use and using that to justify denying warrantys. Seems like a pretty shitty tactic, but it's the bike industry so...
@VorsprungSuspension - no comment about working on these for the E BIke CSU 36 Series forks from Fox?
  • + 3
 @thenotoriousmic: up to the fork manufacturer but basically if they see something has been modified then they are within their rights to void the warranty.

Changing from a Lyrik to a 36 or vice versa requires a new foot stud assembly and a new top cap. Top caps are $30CAD, foot stud assemblies will be somewhere around $80 but pricing has not yet been finalised on those as we don't yet have them available separately.
  • + 15
 @VorsprungSuspension: Just wanted to say I absolutely love your openness to listing the pros and cons, wish more companies were forthright about the downsides to whatever decision they made. You guys rock it!
  • + 1
 @Stokedonthis: the solo air spring in the lower end forks are trash though thats why they all top out when you pull up on the fork unless you have the rebound at a rediculously slow setting. They need a top out system in them. Thats one of the big reasons I haven't upgraded my dual air rev they dont top out. I wish they would bring back a dual air fork to the rev line up Id buy one in a heartbeat.
  • + 2
 @Stokedonthis: Amen! I had a Pike with a Luftkappe, like omg it can have my babies was how smooth the Luftkappe made the Pike feel even with brand new tight seals. Stiction, what stiction?? You guys can keep your coil fork. The mid stroke support was great and with no tokens the Pike never bottomed out harshly. All on the standard RCT3 damper which was a good damper.

So fast forward 6 months of Pike love and Rockshox teased me with a 19 Lyrik. Debonair, super supple new super dooper damper. Biggest mistake ever. Maybe I had a bad Lyrik but the damper was awful. It's so bad I sent it back as a warranty claim. 3 rides in the seals weren't sticky any more but the damper was way over damped on the compression stroke. LSC and HSC fully backed off, sore wrists and front wheel washing out. Bag of poop.
  • + 1
 @mhoshal: i think Lyrik and Yari come with the same air spring, no?
  • + 1
 @veero: but, but ... debon air ... rc2 damper ... it can‘t be bad :‘D
  • + 1
 This great upgrade pretty much ensures that Rock Shox will have a coil option for the lyrick in the next couple years. Anybody wanna bet?
  • + 1
 @VorsprungSuspension: Make one for a '14 Fox 34 and I'll buy one. OTOH, I just sunk 100 euro into the NA2 air spring upgrade....
  • + 1
 Back in 2005 marzocchi had the 66 rc that had..., wait for it.... coil and air adjustment. worked a treat and 14 years on is still working. my 2006 fox 36rc van coil still working . just saying. ;-)
  • + 0
 @biglev: huge difference between air preload and hydrualic bottom out bud not sure why you are even comparing the two?
  • + 2
 @mhoshal: totally. but havign one sytem in place dotn work so have a combination seem to. so defo up for coil and hydro ramp up.
  • + 142
 All companies should be forced to fill out a "What are the downsides of the [insert product here]" . Steve & team with no BS as usual... epic stuff dudes.
  • + 36
 I wish I had more props… respect to @VorsprungSuspension
  • + 11
 Came here to say the same thing. Almost everything is a compromise somewhere, being upfront about those instills confidence.
  • + 1
 came here to make the same point, respect!!
  • + 88
 Wholly. A vendor actually educating the consumer to the PROs and CONs of their product. Refreshing.
  • + 167
 Nothing's perfect and we aren't interested in building public distrust through marketing hyperbole. Our business model is all about making our customers stoked about riding their bikes, doesn't really work if we sell somebody something that isn't suitable for them, that just leads to them trusting us less in future.

Also, we're a small company and the marketing is what the engineering department does in their spare time. Better than the other way around though Smile
  • + 9
 @VorsprungSuspension: Thanks! I really wish that more companies in the industry thought this way. The Marketing in the bike industry is starting to reach the level of the golf industry. Everything is the best ever, even if it only .000001% better than the last model. Starting to make people skip generations of parts/ bikes cause they will be worthless in 2 months when uber dub boost condor comes out..Bigger is better Bottom line, your approach is very refreshing.
  • + 17
 @VorsprungSuspension:

“Also, we're a small company and the marketing is what the engineering department does in their spare time. Better than the other way around though”

That’s the best line I’ve read in ages, think I might print that one out and present it at our next, marketing and engineering meeting !!
  • + 1
 (double post, edited)
  • + 1
 @VorsprungSuspension: "Also, we're a small company and the marketing is what the engineering department does in their spare time. Better than the other way around though". Exactly the same at my business!
  • + 27
 My favorite part is the MSRP.
  • + 4
 Take the S out and you get MRP Ribbon Coil fork
  • + 3
 @RollinFoSho: hahaha good.
The ribbon is very good, the acs3 is fantastic, this should be awesome too. There is nothing like tha lt first ride with coil on your bike after ditching air. ... regarding the hydraulic bottom out, its very clever, I first saw this on the ext storia. I guess this is very common in motorsports.
I understand the theoretical "disadvantages" of the pneumatic bumpstop (push) but this also engages at the end of the travel at very high speed events, the coil force pushing back is high enough to make that little air spring force not that "unstabilizing"....?
  • + 5
 product, price and personality. This hits the three P's. More P-ness than one could ever hope for (yeah, I went there).
  • + 32
 ""And I can give you a discou-"
"No thanks, I'll pay MSRP"
"...Alright, that'll be 420.69"
"heheheheheheh"
  • + 0
 Funny, but still and expensive spring kit
  • + 9
 @RollinFoSho: If you've already got a top spec bike - sure it's pricey, but if you've just bought a $3k entry level bike, this would be probably the best money you could spend on it.
  • + 3
 @Clarkeh: Yeah you buy an entry level bike with a yari and put this coil kit! Smile
  • + 1
 @Timo82: aaand the yari still has the motion control damper, wich is shit ... i‘d rather upgrade the yari with a good damper (should be the same price)
  • + 1
 @Stokedonthis: tough call.. damper or spring.. hm...
  • + 0
 @Stokedonthis: its obviously not shit if it was used for a decade plus in almost all RS's forks. Just because there is better stuff out there doesn't automatically make the previous stuff shit. How does it feel to be a sheep regurgitating shit that that you hear that is completely untrue?
  • + 1
 @mhoshal: okay, i‘m sorry, it‘s shit compared to most other dampers ... still better than sticking wood in your right stanchion
  • + 1
 Okay that sounds a little strange
  • + 0
 @Stokedonthis: Get a damper from avalanche downhill racing. They're great!
  • + 1
 @Clarkeh: Ya, makes sense for a Yari or Revelation. No need in a Fox36, Lyric or Pike. This spring may have a touch better small bump sensitivity over air but I would rather spend on good rims, Cushcore and light tires. Cushcore takes care of small bumps !
  • + 11
 ... Introducing the pike debonair 2020, now with 100% more coil, brought to you by vorspr... I mean sram, right guys, it's sram that developed this?

LOL.

Cudos though, this will probably be part of my next bike.
  • + 10
 Hahah, such is life. Successful models for design or business or anything else inevitably get copied at some point.
  • + 10
 @VorsprungSuspension: I remember a few years ago opining in the comment boards that i didn't understand how your business model could work if the OEMs would just copy you the next season, and here we are 3+ years later and you are still IDing where the OEMs can be improved and releasing products I want and by all accounts you are still not bankrupt. Happy I was wrong because my Luftkappe was the best bang for buck product I ever put on my bike and the Tractiv tune on my Monarch + is not too shabby either. So here's to not knowing what the hell i'm talking about and being better off for it. Keep em coming.
  • + 1
 @freestyIAM: fair enough. but tbh this and other coil conversions are moderate/modest improvements of the premise of coil fork. dont get me wrong, they are fantastic (push, mrp, this). But the big players dont satisfy the niche needs, which they push it to be a niche... 10 years ago single crown top of the line coil forks were available.. today 3 players are offering it since 1-2 years ago (CC, MRP, ohlins ?).. big guys dithced coil, now its coming back.. the big players are frowning for sure... hope dvo comes with coil Diamond soon as well
  • + 12
 Make Coil Great Again
  • + 1
 I used to have a Kona Tanuki.
  • + 8
 Thrilled to see applications for heavier riders.
250# of thanks.
  • + 3
 Me too. At 220 (hopefully less one day!) it's helps to have stuff for us. ( well me being fat lol)
  • + 5
 I only recently found out you crazy people call the # sign a pound. Took me ages to work out how to get through my 2 step verification for my work email.
  • + 4
 Is there room inside for a throw away plastic sleeve to line the stanchion against the coil spring? Replace the sleeve every xxx? hours and keep your fork A1 for a return to air if wanted.
  • + 6
 We actually wanted to do that originally, but there's nothing to hold it in place at the bottom with this system since there's no sealhead in the stanchion - it'd drop out the bottom of the stanchion and get mashed up in the lowers.
  • + 2
 @VorsprungSuspension: couldnt you just keep the metal clip at the bottom on the stanchion in?
  • + 9
 @butters1996: unfortunately not, there's no space between the stanchion and the spring - spring on these runs below the bottom of the stanchion. Topout assembly is housed inside the spring instead of below it.
  • + 1
 @VorsprungSuspension: Gotcha, figured there was a reason it couldn't be that simple lol.
  • + 1
 @VorsprungSuspension: Why not put a few threads on the top of the suggested sleeve to connect it at the top of the stanchion. Shorten the top cap by a few threads and it would work, no?
  • + 2
 @VorsprungSuspension great concept, love the name too- descriptive of its function and a play on 'dashpot'? Just wondering: does the damper unit run in its own sealed cartridge or does it use the splash lube? Also is there a little foot valve under the tapered cup or is all the metering via orifice control and leak path?
  • + 2
 Dashpot is correct - just more smashy Smile

It runs on the splash lube. There's a shimmed valve and adjustable orifice in there to control flow, plus a couple of other flow paths to taper the effect in gently.
  • + 4
 Got a custom tune and luftkappe from vorsprung last year but looking forward to buying this next time I’m due for a rebuild.
  • + 1
 How is it?
  • + 1
 Yeah, I remember coil springs feeling pretty good until they bottomed out. When they bottomed out it was like DONG!!! and felt terrible. Also as they said the weight. The most advantageous thing about them is the small bump sensitivity in my opinion, like the first inch of travel is perfect.
  • + 1
 I really like the solution avalanche has now for coil spring with avy cartridge. I run a homebrew push coil system in a lyric, without the Push anti-bottoming air spring, but with an avalanche cartridge+anti-bottoming-system.
  • + 1
 Wow, that's nice. I run an AVA cart too, but how did you convert to coil?
  • + 4
 love my avalanche damper with coil conversion on the ripmo. weight difference is not noticeable on a bike like this. go coil
  • + 1
 Great to hear! Was wondering about it. I already have an open bath set up from them and absolutely love it! I love nothing more than coil too so I’ve been very strongly considering adding in their dual coil conversion. You enjoy the change it made?
  • + 2
 @stormracing: yes absolutely love it and not a pricey thing to do if you have the cartridge already. The fork always pushed back a little with the air on small bumps and now it's butter. Also do not feel I lost bottoming resistance at all with the ABS.
  • + 2
 Awesome to hear and thanks for the response! Much appreciated. Based off of that I’m sold and will be doing the conversion soon now! Always been stoked on the idea of it @shrinky:
  • + 1
 @VorsprungSuspension , thank you for realizing that this industry that is back marked by people concerned about a shy amount of weight to performance have taken over the industry and the same happened in the MX industry for about 6 years and now you see every production bike going back to springs. Sometimes what people think are best without knowing the feeling what else is out there are lost with all the other sheep that go BAAHAAHHAA!!
  • + 5
 Can you guys do a head to head with this and the Push coil conversion kit?
  • + 84
 The Push kit is a really good concept - coil performance for the first 2/3 of the travel with an adjustable anti-bottoming system. Fundamentally both the ACS and Smashpot pretty similar there, and with any given spring rate you'll notice absolutely zero difference in performance during the first 2/3rds of so of the travel since a coil spring is a coil spring. Both have anti-bottoming systems which as a whole achieve a pretty similar thing.

However, the Smashpot is cheaper, has internally adjustable travel, goes to both longer AND shorter travel settings, has a wider range of spring rates available, is transferable between forks at a minimum of cost, has no components impacting one another mid travel, has no air seals to worry about, doesn't need a shock pump to adjust and is guaranteed* to get you laid.

*eventually, probably.
  • + 5
 @VorsprungSuspension: Nice, everyone wants to get laid, and so l'll pony up for the Smokepot when I have my next major service due on my fork.
  • + 16
 Well damn that's cheaper than what I was gonna do. Goodbye virginity, and hello sweet coil plushness@VorsprungSuspension:
  • + 1
 How would you compare this to Avalanche Suspensions recent small batch release of a dual coil conversion for their open bath set up? Hope to hear back. Thanks! @VorsprungSuspension:
  • + 1
 @stormracing: Only on the Fox 36. Limited to 150 and 160mm travel. Also limited in rider weight, if you are 200 lbs then you are too heavy for the 150mm. Hopefully Craig can expand the spring rates as well as make it an option on other cartridges. A Yarilanche coil would be pretty sweet.
  • + 5
 @VorsprungSuspension: Guaranteed to get me laid? Start loading the shipping container, i'm off to get mood candles and essential oils.
  • + 2
 @VorsprungSuspension: Thanks for the reply. I already have kids, so I have 0% chance of getting laid ever again though.
  • + 1
 @VorsprungSuspension: can you wind the bottom out for the full coil experience? I don’t run any volume spacers. I just run them hard and fast and adjust the compression. I don’t like how volume spacers make the fork feel harsh over repeated big hits and prefer a more linear setup.
  • + 2
 @stormracing: their kit is integrated into their damper system, which is pretty cool, but total system cost including the damper cartridge is $700USD ($925CAD) and the total range of spring rates covers a variation of 8% (48lbs/in to 52lbs/in). The hydraulic anti bottoming system is also not adjustable nor a shimmed valve, and effective over a shorter range of travel, basically meaning higher forces. Their damper cartridges are good though despite the cost and weight.
  • + 1
 @thenotoriousmic: yep, at fully open its effect is pretty close to zero.
  • + 2
 @VorsprungSuspension:

guaranteed* to get you laid.

*eventually, probably.

you got me
  • + 1
 @VorsprungSuspension: Thanks for answering my question. Now you're getting hammered with a ton of other questions and I know you're busy replying to many of them and running a business and making parts, but I have another question. Can you give me a quick rundown of why (weight difference aside) one would choose this over the Luftkappe? Thanks again.
  • + 3
 @Trouterspace: compared to the differences it makes vs the stock spring, with the Smashpot the spring rate is linearised further than the Luftkappe (more supple initially, more mid stroke support), no friction, longer service life, externally adjustable bottomout, no seals to mess with or wear out. The only real downsides are cost and weight.

Value for money - the Luftkappe is extremely hard to beat, it's relatively cheap, weighs next to nothing and it makes a substantial difference. Outright suspension performance - the Smashpot wins.
  • + 3
 @VorsprungSuspension: Rad, really appreciate the comparison and response!
  • + 3
 @VorsprungSuspension: "and is guaranteed* to get you laid." ... best comment ever... sold!
  • + 1
 @VorsprungSuspension: I'm sold. Thanks so much.
  • + 1
 @VorsprungSuspension you mention that it's "easy and cost-effective to transfer from one fork to another". Let's say you want to take the Smashpot and coil to your new bike (same model fork)... If you wish to sell your old bike with a working fork then you'd need to put new inners or your old air assembly back into it, correct? What are your options if the inside of the stanchion is scratched from the coil and the old air assembly won't re-seal, new CSU?
  • + 5
 If it's the same fork on the new bike - put the new fork on the old bike and hey presto. Or just the CSU.

But if the fork is different, you'll probably need a new CSU for the old bike. Cheaper just to leave the Smashpot in the old fork and buy a new one - $300 USD for a CSU + labour to install, Vs $315 for the new Smashpot...

Or - maybe the coil spring has not scratched the inner of the stanchion badly enough to affect the air seal. I don't know of any reports of how long it takes, or what sort of damage occurs. Maybe people who go coil aren't flipping their bikes yearly?
  • + 7
 @grump444 you're correct - new CSU if the inside is scratched. Not applicable if you're pulling a TALAS cartridge out though as it's self contained and doesn't seal on the stanchion. The spring is rubber isolated and internally guided, and in ~9 months of testing these in a few different forks we haven't actually managed to score the inside of a stanchion yet but it's an obvious likely outcome at some point, so our approach is basically "expect not to be able to convert back to air, and if you can, it's a bonus".

And exactly what @nouseforaname said.
  • + 2
 Looks like a cool product. I have a Luftkappe in my Fox 36 and have been very please with it. Great seeing so much innovation coming out of Vorsprung.
  • + 3
 And I was just thinking to myself, "ya, I'm pretty much done with upgrades for this one."

Silly me.
  • + 1
 Whoooho!!! Yes and yes, best upgrade I will consider for the park bike, definitely worth it! Thanks for releasing, does it comes with two springs out of the box? Or will require having additional one?
  • + 1
 Kit as priced comes with one spring of your choosing. Additional springs are $80CAD.
  • + 1
 @VorsprungSuspension: thanks, already read carefully, would you point me to the weight/spring ratio chart?
  • + 1
 @VorsprungSuspension what is the UK price please? I'm not a suspension geek, but I did love the feel of the Helm coil. Would the potsmasher make my Fox 36 RC2 feel like/better than this?
  • + 1
 UK price is up to the dealers themselves. Price before tax will be comparable, but you do have to add VAT over there.
  • + 1
 @VorsprungSuspension: Lets hope they don't screw you and price it too close to the PUSH coilover!
  • + 3
 I like it how half of the comments are from @VorsprungSuspension themselves Smile
  • + 1
 @vorsprungsuspension I didn't notice a spec on top cap socket needed for the modification... Because you are using both manufacturer's existing spec?
Must be fun being the cool guy at the party. Thanks for fantastic mods Smile
  • + 1
 Installation instructions will be up shortly.
  • + 1
 Killer design and Idea, but with Marzocchi 350's being damn near free and other viable options in the Ribbon and Helm.... I couldn't.

Truth be told I love the 2019+ fox forks and wouldnt change it.
  • + 1
 @VorsprungSuspension: I want to buy this kit for my 2018 revelation.
You mention revalving the damper. I would need the 65lb spring.
What does this involve?
  • + 1
 Damper revalves involve reshimming the compression and rebound circuits to give you the damping characteristic necessary to match your weight, spring rate, terrain and preferences. If you're in the UK you're surrounded by a plethora of capable workshops who can help you out with that.
  • + 1
 @VorsprungSuspension: thank you. Instead of keeping the MC damper in my revelations, I. Thinking this coil kit plus an open bath damper from crconception. Would this be suitable as is? Damper would be custom made for my weight.
  • + 1
 i just want to see the long term test on this kit, looks nice and the price is right. Also wouldn't mind seeing the head to head against the Push ACS-3 kit.
  • + 2
 I've got a DVO Diamond ... any chance this will be available for DVO anytime soon?
  • + 3
 Not confirmed, but possibly - if the demand is there.
  • + 12
 @VorsprungSuspension: Well, I demand one! Wink
  • + 2
 @aireeek: Haha, duly noted.
  • + 2
 I would think the cartridge contained air spring would make the conversion super easy. Plus you wouldn't be netting much additional weight losing the cartridge and the negative coil.
  • + 4
 You had me at Vorsprung.
  • + 1
 This seems cool. Vorsprung is Canadian (which is great). But why claim that coils remove seals and complexity , then add it back in with the smash-cauldron ?
  • + 9
 There's no sliding seals in there. There is clearance (albeit a tiny amount) between the bottoming plunger and the cone it enters. The cone is filled with oil which is pressurised once the plunger enters it, forcing a small percentage of it out the clearance between plunger and cone (which forcibly lubricates it) and the remainder through the adjuster orifice and valving. The plunger will literally fall straight through it if you have them out of the fork and drop the plunger assembly into the bottoming cone, it adds absolutely no discernible friction.
  • + 5
 Minor correction - everywhere that said "cone" there should have said "tapered cup" Smile
  • + 1
 So the 36 van rc2 is still good ?who would say that after 12 years it will ,still loving it like the first day ,it’s just stupendous,never mind the weight
  • + 2
 So does this kit also require removing the top cap for preload adjustments?
  • + 4
 Yep. Preload is set when installing the spring, it's not something that should be adjusted per se.
  • + 1
 @VorsprungSuspension: I am going to order for my 2018 revelation.
Spring rate will need to be 65lbs. What is this damper Revalve that is mentioned and should I consider this?
  • + 1
 Standard damper tweak, speak to the likes of TF Tuned
  • + 3
 I should like one for my Fox 40Wink 420.69 lol
  • + 1
 buy this plus an avalanche and slap it in a yari. whoop whooooop reduced offset plus wild ass spring/amazing damper. have the best performing fork, and it weighs 300 pounds.
  • + 2
 ordered here in Sweden. oh yes.
  • + 3
 Take my money ????????
  • + 1
 I am curious about their solution to the negative spring length/spring rate and accommodating the needed adjustability.
  • + 1
 Coil forks don't have negative springs as such. There's a small topout spring to prevent noise due to topout impact, but its effect anywhere but right at topout is zero. Negative springs in the conventional sense are only needed where you'd otherwise have a highly preloaded system (eg pressurised air).
  • + 1
 Awesome upgrade and a bit cheaper then Push’s option! Great to see all this aftermarket support
  • + 1
 Any chance of this coming to a Mattoc? Love my Manitou but would love to go coil.
  • + 1
 Can you explain a bit more about how the bottom out adjustment works? How do you adjust it and how big is the range?
  • + 1
 Can a 2018 Fox Factory Elite 36 factory 150mm fork be bumped up to 170mm with your spring kit?

@VorsprungSuspension:
  • + 0
 full coil bikes = trophy trucks (goes through everything at speed) air sprung = rally car ( nimble and quick high strung )
  • + 2
 ...and what’s old is new again.
  • + 1
 Awesome news, been waiting on this.
Guessing it will be available through tftuned in the UK?
  • + 1
 Yes, via TF and they expect stock / pricing in the new 2 weeks - They tell me that the kits are on the way as I type this!
  • + 2
 Would this be able to convert the DPA pike?
  • + 1
 Yes - it's compatible with both fixed travel (Solo Air/Float) and adjustable travel (DPA/TALAS) forks, though obviously it doesn't give you on-the-fly travel adjustability.
  • + 2
 I'm guessing this out fits the new lyrik eh... Damn
  • + 2
 Fits 2016-19 Lyrik/Yari yes.
  • + 2
 We won't complain about that price
  • + 2
 shut up and take my money
  • + 1
 Looks really good, but I still think the 315usd is not cheap. But I understand of course
  • + 15
 It's not cheap, but in our estimation it's actually one of the biggest improvements to the bike's ride quality that you can make for that money. We try to make things the best value that we can - not necessarily the cheapest or even outright "best" in every other way (this could have been better still with say titanium springs to cut weight, but would have doubled the price), but the biggest ride improvement per dollar spent. Whether we achieved that or not is up to the riders to determine.
  • + 1
 If you consider how much rebuilds cost (either once a year or once every other year depending on how often you ride) it’s very reasonable.
  • + 1
 @VorsprungSuspension: Is there a titanium coil upgrade option?
  • + 3
 @muyguapa: no, sorry. We looked at that, it's both cost prohibitive and failure prone - yet to find any Ti fork spring that wasn't prone to breaking. Sucks because it is quite a bit lighter.
  • + 1
 @VorsprungSuspension: hi guys. As I said, I totaly understand and I really like what you do. I would really consider it aa an upgrate in future. Do you have some sort of dealership in Europe?
  • + 1
 @milanulrich: We sure do - vorsprungsuspension.com/pages/elite-partner-tuning-centres (list needs to be updated to reflect some recent additions, but it's a start). We also ship worldwide from our online store.
  • + 1
 @VorsprungSuspension: perfect. Thank you. I would love to use you online shop. Unfortunately taxes and other things will make this thing even more expensive if you get it from US. Fingers crossed guys. Really like your stuff.
  • + 1
 @milanulrich: www.tftuned.com/luftkappe-upgraded-piston-kit-for-solo-air-pike-yari-lyrik/p3288

Casem se snad objevi i pruzina☺Ale musim rict, ze Luftkappe je super a opravdu snizuje neskutecne odtrh!
  • + 1
 @milanulrich: You have a German dealer, look up in international distributors sections on Vorsprung page. Wink
  • + 3
 Perfect msrp
  • + 2
 Ribbon Coil ❤ everything
  • + 2
 big fan of the Ribbon but what I like about this is the hydraulic bottom out. MRP is air.
  • + 2
 Ribbon coil doesnt have an air ramp up, its a knob you turn that adds ramp up at the last inch or so. I had terrible bushing issues with my Ribbon coil however that created terrible stiction.
  • + 1
 @vanillarice19: the manual shows it as air. Would I like about the Smashpot is it controls the last third of travel instead the last inch.

"Ramp Control in the Ribbon Coil works by controlling the flow of ambient air found in the lower leg into the
stanchion. Air transits freeley on low and moderate speed compressions regardless of Ramp Control knob position, but during high-speed compressions, when set firmly, transit is impeded - providing a boost to the
spring rate."
  • + 1
 @vanillarice19: "I had terrible bushing issues with my Ribbon coil "

is this a common thing with the ribbon? i've been thinking about picking one up but bushing problems are my least favorite defect to deal with since they are so difficult to fix on your own
  • + 2
 @xeren: I feel like their tolerances aren't up to snuff compared to the big boys. The fork felt fine on the trail but when I just push straight down on it, it took like 30lbs of weight to get it to move or break stiction. I was gonna just live with it until I played with a friends PUSH ACS3 coil conversion on a Fox 36 and it took like 7-10lbs to break stiction. My 2019 Lyric RC2 I'm running now has a large Neg air chamber but it's not as nice as the ACS3 I tried. I bet this Vorsprung one is just as good if not better.
  • + 3
 @xeren: My Ribbon Coil was perfect out of the box. I'd buy another.
  • + 3
 @vanillarice19: The Ramp Control works my restricting airflow through an orifice as the fork compresses. The size of that orifice changes with knob at the bottom. So ya it's an air ramp control function.
  • + 2
 @vikb: Gotcha!! My Ribbon performed well, it just bothered me at how little sticktion other forks had. Put your front tire on a bathroom scale and check the weight. Put your finger on the dust seal and apply weight slowly on the bars. When it breaks sticktion, subtract that weight from the inital weight and there's your breakaway force. My Ribbon was 30lbs, My 19 Lyrik is 20lbs, my old 2016 Dual Position Air Lyrik was 35lbs. A Push ACS3 on a Fox 36 is about 10lbs.

On the trail I don't think I noticed any problems except it muted the trail a bit too much for my liking. I think my preference is to have more ramp up towards the last 1/3rd of the stroke. The MRP has ramp up at the last 1/6 of the stroke so pumping and stuff was not as responsive as an air shock or ACS3/Smashpot
  • + 1
 @xeren: I also have a Ribbon Coil and it has been flawless.
  • + 3
 @vanillarice19: I had the same with my Ribbon coil. Massive stiction issues that almost locked the fork up on big impacts. Returned it for a full refund no questions asked.
  • + 3
 Your move, Push
  • + 0
 I'm buying this. How is it installed? Home job or shop job. Hand job? Where can I buy in Vancouver/Squamosh? I'm very confused.
  • + 1
 DIY
  • + 1
 If you can service your air spring you can install this, instructions will be up very shortly. You can buy direct from us in Whistler, we ship worldwide or you can come pick it up from our workshop.
  • + 1
 What is the lightest combination? Fox 36 or Lyrik. What is the option with most tuneable?
  • + 1
 Would this work on Rhythm 36 forks?
  • + 2
 But can it smash pots?
  • + 6
 No, you smoke pot and smash stuff on your buttery smooth coil Smile
  • + 23
 For just $420 you can smash loads of pot. But for just 69 cents more you could convert your fork to coil and save your money going up in smoke.
  • + 1
 @VorsprungSuspension: do you know when these will be available in the UK?
  • + 1
 @VorsprungSuspension:

Any problems so far with the kit ? I was gonna buy a push kit but I've read too many posts about disintegrating o-rings and weird metal noise while riding. Hopefully yours will be better
  • + 1
 @Charlotroy: Interested to hear what you have read on the Push kit -

I've seen reports of noises, but all seem to be traced back to spring hitting the inside of the fork (cured with some grease and shrink wrap) or the bump stop plunger knocking, but again that was resolved with a new rubber bumper (as per PB reviews) - I hadn't read about o rings disintegrating?
  • + 4
 @Charlotroy: if we knew of any problems, we wouldn't be releasing it yet - this kit has been under development for over a year and has been tested pretty heavily on varied terrain. The spring is isolated from the stanchion with heat shrink (as with all coil forks), but it's also internally guided by another rubber-isolated tube. It's not possible to 100% guarantee complete silence with any coil spring in a fork simply because clearance is required between parts, but to the best of our knowledge, this is the quietest coil system out there.
  • + 1
 "We present to you the Smashpot"
404 Page Not Found.

Pottery!
  • + 13
 Ha we're morons, fixed Smile
  • + 1
 So much yes. When can we expect the rear shock to match?
  • + 3
 Model year 2069.
  • + 1
 I’ll take on for my Pike! Can i Apple Pay you guys now?!
  • + 3
 how many apples for 420,69 CAD?
  • + 1
 When is the FOX PE40 smash pot gonna be available ???
  • + 1
 COOL, anything for Fox 40 Grip2 / Marzocchi Bomber 58 ?
  • + 2
 Can't argue with this
  • + 1
 Would you advise against cool fork/air shock rear combo?
  • + 2
 No problem doing that at all - rear shock choice is largely dependent on the frame, some work great with air and some work better with coil. Fairly much independent of the front.
  • + 1
 @VorsprungSuspension - CC Helm version ?
  • + 2
 Under consideration - we'll see if the demand is there.
  • + 1
 @VorsprungSuspension: Definitely will consider also, got the air helm but after trying the coil was just blown away, now no one is looking to swap around either Frown always loved coil more but recent years led industry in different direction.
  • + 1
 “Other fitments under development”. Which ones?
  • + 1
 Which ones do you need? Smile
  • + 4
 @VorsprungSuspension: add me to the list hoping for DVO Diamond
  • + 1
 @VorsprungSuspension Anything in the works for a the Dorado?
  • + 1
 Not at the moment sorry.
  • + 1
 Can you provide a bit more info on how the bottom out works? How is it adjusted and what is the range? Thx.
  • + 4
 @Samo831: There's a dial at the bottom of the leg on the spring side. Turn it one way for more BO resistance, turn it the other way for less. Range goes from "does pretty well zero" to "more than you want"!
  • + 0
 I have it already. It’s called 36VAN
  • - 2
 Can someone please just make a cheap coilconversion kit? That cant be that hard and for the price of a RS debonair conversion kit i would imediatly buy one
  • - 1
 So, is this exactly the same as the Push ACS-3? If not, which one is best?
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