Sea Otter 2016 was awash in E-bikes. The things could be seen everywhere, zooming to and fro. There was even an E-bike race in which the peloton pedaled slow, lazy circles while barreling up the hills at something just below the speed of light. Countless cross-country racers, the kind of gaunt, ropy types who have clearly suffered through years of shitty interval training in an effort to become genuinely fast, wept bitter tears and shook angry fists at the motorized bicycles whilst raging about the end of the world. E-bikes have a way of eliciting that kind of reaction.
Unless, of course, you love E-bikes. After all, some people really are enraptured with the things. Me? I haven't formed an opinion. I haven’t ridden an E-bike yet…but I am intrigued by the shit storm they’ve created.
Hoping to get some clarity on the matter, we decided to ask Sea Otter attendees what they think of E-bikes.
Where do you stand on the subject? I say “E-bike”, you say….
MENTIONS: @vernonfelton /
@influxproductions
And electric motor conversions have been available for years.
As the Magura guy said, it is all about the money. Short term money.
This same situation happened in the 70's80's in some parts of europe with mopeds.
Original mopeds were considered bicycles with motors, as they needed pedals to start.
No insurance. No license. No helmet.
15 years down the line, mopeds needed Insurance, License and Helmet.
A couple of years after, no one was buying mopeds anymore.
A lot of politicians are already taking about license, insurance etc. for bicycles.
E-bikes will only bring more water to their bucket.
Tax licence an insurer the things. Then use that £ to help repair the damage they're inevitably going to cause to trail centres
@KRVZ You just nailed one of the reasons I don't like the Prius. Un-recyclable battery cell once they go bad. The battery replacement is $$$, so all the money you saved in fuel, gets gobbled up if the batteries fail. Also by the time they fail you are either going to have to replace the batteries to save the trade in value or pay half the KBB just to keep it on the road. Even though it saved on some exhaust fumes think about the huge amounts of battery cells that will never decompose, recycle, or recharge once all these cars reach the end of their life. Hypocritical.
www.edmunds.com/fuel-economy/what-happens-to-ev-and-hybrid-batteries.html
But e-bikes don't belong on trails for plenty of other reasons.
Everyone is so quick to jump to the conclusion about the industry 'wanting more money', but in reality it's not like everyone feels an impulse to buy one?
Embrace the fact people are getting out on their bikes and having FUN. Some people are just lazy and/or unfit, and if an electric bike is their gateway drug to a long term mtb addiction, then that's a win in my eyes.
Now, hypothetically speaking - would that be ok to ride for the self-righteous crowd in here (which has not a tiniest will to think for a moment what actually causes trail erosion) , and would that secure no more trail closures?
Also - 8 miles away? Boohoo, that's not a bad ride unless you're on a dh rig or there's a bunch of climbing!
Nah, you guys are right. f*ck the mtb industry, I'll continue buying all their products and their 7k bikes, but f*ck 'em.
I know a marine who is missing both legs from an IED, and is a college student. He wanted to start hiking some of the classic appalachian hikes around his school, but obviously is handicapped. Instead of getting some sort of moto chair or anything like that, he and his buddies modified his crutches (braces?) to work better on rugged terrain, and they helped him up the trails. Sure, he had to work a little harder than your average Joe, but that's life. Should they install a lift to the top of Angel's Landing in Zion, so the morbidly obese fat ass next to you can get to the top? After all, she and her husband are missing out on the benefits of fit people who ride bikes like you and I.... it's about making the outdoors accessible for everyone who wants to enjoy it.
It is about a potential growth market.
In this case e-bikes entice a whole lazy user market (almost everyone) to explore the purchase a $6K to $10K product that will require even more maintenance than MTB's and to them it is a whole new cost center to profit from that did not exist a year ago. Industry HAS to grow. Status quo is death. They already tapped the 26 to 29 to 27.5 to Fat wheel markets. Next up. E-bikes.
The points made about shuttling and uplifts are valid, I might be selfish, but I'd prefer to get lift up and not have a cumbersome e-bike for the descent.
Also imagine if they one day include them on dirt jump bikes. Remember the segment from Life Cycles? Imagine kids in the midwest doing that for real because of a DJ e-bike.
Again, the only trouble with e-bikes is people thinking they belong on non-motorized trails.
Other than that, I live in Norway, and we have pretty strict laws concerning e-bikes (no more than 250w motor and no assist above 25km/h). This means that you have to pedal to get help from the motor and if you go above 25km/h the motor stops assisting. Break these rules, and you have to register the bike as a motorcycle or a moped. Which in turn means you're not allowed to take it offroad.
However, a observation worth noting coming from a tenured fellow living on the left coast of a country that consumes way to much drugs to apparently enjoy life, or hold a perveived aberhant opinion.
If you could build a large rack on the back of it to carry two shovels and some other building tools it would be cool! Just use a pedal assist ebike not the kind that has a throttle lever like a dirt bike.
YES - DH E-Bikes going up fireroads and logging roads then riding DH runs down
NO - E-Bikes on singletrack, especially climbs
= Everybody Happy !
and less dust from shuttle vehicles
*Also take a look at the speed limit laws being introduced in Marin County. It is already happening. Add a electric motor to make the bikes faster and we just handed them even more ammo to screw us.
We've got cities across the country shutting down mountain bike trails (which, presumably, you need a bike to ride them on), and rather than pumping money into building, securing, and defending trail access (which would in turn sell more bikes) companies like Specialized and all the other soulless, greedy, shortsighted, ignorant, greedy, self-sabotaging, greedy (did I say greedy?) a$$hat companies out are just investing their futures in something that can ONLY hurt the sport.
I'm not criticizing the basic rules of capitalism, I'm criticizing the lack of social responsibility on these companies that seem intent on endangering the sport for many of us. I don't know about where you live, but I know that the first elderly dog walker that sees someone cruising up the trail pressing something that appears to be a throttle, it's going to be all over for me and all the other riders that live there and love that trail.
If you disagree you are most likely a lazy fat-a$$, brain dead, or morally corrupt. UNLESS , and ONLY UNLESS you have a legitimate physical impediment that would otherwise keep you from enjoying the sport. Being LAZY does not constitute a physical impediment.
These are harsh words that most likely make me appear to be a Luddite zealot a-hole. But that doesn't make me wrong.
If you write for a mountain bike publication though, what choice do you have except to be implicitly pro-ebike? You can't outright trash them, because you know which side your bread is buttered on. No mountain bike journalist who wants to keep making a living is going to come out against them very vocally. No head of a mountain bike publication is going to allow their employees to have a persistently negative opinion of e bikes. Without advertising dollars and other kinds of support from major bicycle manufacturers these writing jobs and publications may cease to exist. Unless of course these publication endeavors truly are passion projects for all those involved, whom are presumably diehard fans of persistently battling gravity as they pedal up a hill to earn the ride back down. But then, you would implicitly loathe the idea of e bikes, wouldn't you?
And while we're making all this noise about STC and what IMBA is or isn't doing, and how we are losing all these trails to wilderness and all that is a completely shoestring cash-strapped endeavor, we have no one with any true forceful public voice defending the sport from e bikes, something that I believe will prove to be much more insidious than an antiquated wilderness law.
If you don't want to break a sweat then buy a goddamn motorcycle and leave the rest of us out of it. If you are disabled, then somehow permits or other special access options must be figured out.
If you run a mountain bike publication, or you write for one, then please, for the sake of the sport, loudly proclaim what the rest of us are feeling. Because I know deep down, despite that paycheck and that sweet new test rig you're enjoying, you're feeling what we're feeling too.
Rant? Definitely...
Well-thought-out? Debatable!
Please pull your head out of your ass long enough to compose a rational line of thought.
It's not about e bikes RIGHT NOW, it's about what they REPRESENT for the FUTURE OF THE SPORT.
If you're going to call people names, then do it from an actual solid understanding of what's unfolding around you. Not just what's right in front of your nose.
Specialized & the other bike co's doing this are short sighted, greedy & stupid .... I for one will never buy another Specialized product over this E-bike stupidity.
Umm, what were we talking about???
Having said that, if someone wants to ride an e-bike it's their choice, but unless they have an illness or disability I'll view them as the lowest common social denominator. I neither trust nor respect those who live for shortcuts. Is that elitist? Probably. Is dumbing down challenges in life lazy and uninspired? Definitely.
Either way I don't see myself on one, nor anyone I know and hope I don't see any on my local singletrack trails.
It's actually cheaper for most commercial businesses in Marin to go through them.
www.mcecleanenergy.org/your-energy-choices
If you build it "trail ready" then it's really just a e-cross bike, and once you start using e-power or gas to "send it" you're no different then moto. Do you honestly think the power output will remain limited? Powered bikes have a very different trail profile so NOMT!!! If you want a powered bike take up moto or commute on a Vespa; ebikes are about as sensible as the amphibious car.
Haters were saying the same shit about:
Dropper posts, 29ers, 650b, front suspension, full suspension, airplanes, the internal combustion engine, the light bulb, AC current, the invention of the wheel, Kraft Dinner, sweet potatoes. The earth is round like a sphere, not flat like your head.......
No to e motorbikes, but seriously who wouldn't want a little 200w motor in the frame that adds a couple of kgs to halve up time and double downtime when out on a ride?
From a bloke who loves DH but hasn't enough childless mates to put together a shuttle bus anymore this style of bike can't come fast enough..
man there is a ton of stuff in the world that I know I dont have to try because they arent for me. Ebikes are one of them. Go ride an actual dirt bike and stay off our pedal access trails. This notion that it makes it easier to get places Irks me as well. Yes, E bikes will make it easier to get to far off trails, but not all of these trails are shuttle trails nor are they ones that any one wants constant and easy access to. Think about your favourite loam stash being destroyed because people can make their way there any time they please with little effort. There is a reason some trails are hard to get to, and thats half the fun.
Im going to go pedal.
I myself have no qualms about someone using an e bike to get to work in the morning. it relieves traffic congestion in its own right, but pie in the sky envirotards are led astray if they feel electric cars or bikes are footprint free.
mtn biking is still in its infancy in relation to other outdoor pursuits like horseback, hiking and even OHV users. it occurred to me the last time I was in moab that, as mtn bikers, I need to make sure my appreciation of trail availability is articulated, and not seen as an entitlement. but I think that putting an electric bike on hiking/biking/equestrian trails could negatively affect the progress mtn biking has made in outdoor pursuits access.
It's funny how doing things right make you an "elitist" then what does that make all the lazy $uckheads that will be assisted by electric motors..... ?
What happens to the .001% disabled bloke and the heart defect guy and Ashma girl when their ebike fails 30km from home? Royal screwed I think...
California recently LEGALIZED pedal-assist e-bikes(which is predominantly what's being offered) on every trail bicycles are legal on.
Pro: Very fast up hill with peddle assist - 20% grades at 12mph. Cover more distances in less time - try 2.5x for climbing. New sport up hill charging. Rides like mountain bike and looks like one. Self shuttling of sorts.
Cons: creating even further issue between bikers and everyone else. Destroying fitness requirements for a big ride. Adding additional cost / inequality in an industry that continues to cater to wealthy. Need new trails and legislation.
Verdict: Wait for law makers to decide on legality of these new wips. Determine if your trail is friendly. Be ready to sacrifice your work routine for additional shreding time. Do you really need a motor -between your legs - is your body not capable in propeling you to new hights? Maybe a motorcycle is a better solution?
The portion of the people who want an E-bike are those with some disabilities, or are a bit too old, but since they are a small number, they should be muted all together? Come on, our community is better than that! I realise that E-Mtb can cause some problems in the wooded areas, but in the city an E-bicycles is just a phenomenal idea. I am 23, pedalling up the hill, sweating like crazy, trying to get to Uni for my lectures, then an old lady whizzes by on an E-bike without beating a sweat. She is clearly over 60 and she is pedalling, not lugging 2 tonnes of S-Class with her, she chose to move! As far as E-Mtb goes, 60 yeard old dudes with full faces on and knee pads are just awesome!
And don't forget, we do it all of the same reasons, to have a blast and escape the mundane reality of the metropolis.
But when my dad said two weeks ago that he would like to be able to follow my pace and ride with me on the trails longer than the average 25 miles he's doing I started to look at e-bikes the other ways.
A dad's friend of mine said the same thing, that he would'nt have bought a motorcycle if he wou'd still be able to pedal on hard climbs (he's suffering from a knee injury).
It's very difficult to get an absolut answer to e-bike: Yes or no? I say no but one has sometimes reasons you can't deny to say yes.
They don't rip the trails up like a moto, those on here who say that is the case clearly have not ridden or even seen one of these bikes (I ride MX and dirtbikes so I know what I am talking about).
E Bikes help get you up the hill quicker so you can enjoy the fun part and get back downhill more often, and no they don't rip the trail up, slow riders who are on the brakes all the time do that. I only MTB with lift served or uplift days, am not interested in pedalling uphill 2 hours for 15 mins of descent. They are coming and will not go away and are far more green than me being bussed up a hill 8 times on uplift days.
They are a no brainer for me - my NukeProof Mega will be in the for sale section soon...
FIELD STUDY HYPOTHESES AND INITIAL RESULTS
IMBA developed these hypotheses for this small initial study (one site, with one set of environmental conditions):
• Physical impacts to trails from eMTBs will likely fall somewhere between those caused by mountain bikes and motorcycles. We expect that they will much more closely resemble those of mountain bikes.
• We expect that eMTBs may lead to more soil displacement under certain conditions, such as
through turns, including bermed turns; on ascents and descents; and where there are abrupt changes in trail conditions.
Initial observations suggest good support for the field study hypotheses. We saw some differences between the impacts of eMTBs and mountain bikes, particularly at turns and grade changes. However, for the most part, the soil impacts observed in this study were not greatly different from those of mountain bikes, and were much less than those associated with motorcycle use.
IMBA has not completed the analysis of study data, but initial observations appear to support our hypotheses under this limited set of conditions. The results of the land manager survey and social impacts analysis are still being compiled. The entire study will be completed by the end of 2015.
IMBA has worked very hard to define mountain biking as non-motorized. IMBA recognizes that eMTBs, particularly those equipped with Type 1 pedal-assist are substantially different from other motorized uses, and may warrant a separate category and new management strategies.
IMBA does not have an advocacy interest in the eMTB study, but is leading this study as a respected partner of land management agencies, to further knowledge about recreational trails, and to inform future discussions with members, chapters, land mangers, the bike industry, and other user groups.
Meth...high for hours, tons of energy, feel like superhero.
Both sound fun, useful, and like you could get a lot done in a little bit of time. Both highly likely to cause more harm than good.
But accord to Mr. Specialized:
DONT KNOCK IT TILL YOU TRY IT.
what a moron...
I'll choose to never try either...
Disk Brakes, television, radio, space travel, disputing whether the earth orbits the sun or vise versa, if the moon was made of cheese or not, electric guitars, acoustic guitars, condoms, alcohol, hamburgers, allowing women to vote, allowing women to read, allowing women to speak.......
For example, if somebody is against it because they think having e-bikes on regular mtb trails with make it harder to work out land access deals in the future because they have motors, I don't see how riding one first is going to change that. It might make you like it a little more, but the fact remains.
Unless your reasoning for disliking them is something like "they're lame", then the call to "try it before you criticize it" doesn't make much sense. But who knows, maybe that is the reason most people don't like them?
city transportation.
I assume the market would be 100+ times bigger.
So why don't they go that route? Reduce carbon foot-print? Less traffic and better life quality?
Because the car lobby is way more powerful and as soon as city e-mopeds will be released in force, they will push for insurance, license, helmet etc. On all bicycles.
E-mopeds for off road will have the same result, license, limited trail access, insurance etc.
I have ridden e-bikes, I'm not some uneducated fool who just thinks he knows what they are. Like the last guy said, it's like Tivo, it helps you just speed up the dull bits to enjoy the rest. Whilst PEDALLING!. Because I think it's clear most people think e-bikes are just mini-motos or something that just require no rider input. And, what happens when the battery dies? You have 25kg mtb. That will make you fit. And, get this, it's surprising I'm sure you'll, agree, you can't turn them off!!! Imagine that! You can actually ride under human power too! Whatever next!
Get off your high horses ass holes. I'm in my 25th year of mountain biking, longer than many on here have been alive, and I say they are fine if that what you want to do. I have made it up climbs I have never made on other bikes, even on a bike way too small for me. And I find it much more fun to maintain spend ththan pedal endlessly whilst tired. I don't own one, but I would. Probably a fat bike e-bike because I find fat bikes need some assistance when used for there intended purpose anyway.
yes, yes it is. an electric motor is a motor.
I think you need to explore the issue a little further, because anyone who's been "riding for 25 years" would understand that the implications are a lot more far-reaching than you just maintaining speed up climb.
Right, they are classified and thus aren't "allowed" on certain trails, but that doesn't mean e bike riders will actually stay off those trails. Quite the opposite will end up happening I think.
www.nytimes.com/2016/04/19/sports/cycling/with-a-discreet-motor-doping-the-bike-instead-of-the-cyclist.html
If you are lazy, just click on this link
www.pedegoelectricbikes.com/customer-stories/living-instead-of-existing
Industry is pushing really hard here in Europe...
Friends don't let friends ride ebikes.
All jerseys must be made from black leather or at least denim and must have tassels along the arm...
E-bike for older and the disalebd is fine with me for sure, why should they not be able to enjoy some of the fun i can?
I would judge a normal person if i see them on a full blown E-moto on my tails, but if they dont destroy the trails then be my guest.
The trail access issue is worrisome though so I'm going to see how it shakes out.
P.S. I love the shit out of my dirt bike : )
stop building straw men to knock down, waki
Maybe focus on the actual issues.
I ride my bike with my wife on her horse, no issues.....
I still think it's a slippery slope. The anti-bike crowd will point to increased trail erosion due to increased number of runs in a day.
I also don't see why jumps would need to be redesigned.
Don't knock it till you try it:
Rape, meth, white collar crime, abortion, fracking, exploiting immigrant workers for cheap labor, boost hubs, roller blading, going vegan.
The argument shows the individuals lack of foresight, plain and simple.
Somehow the fact that a representative from Specialized is saying it is almost too perfect.
You heard something about challenge?
A buddy of mine started out riding last year, being not as physically fit nor technically fit as me. When going on rides together, he almost died at every ascent, he tried to keep up with me(or even just get up in his own pace). Did it kill his fun? Of course it didnt. It motivated him to become fitter. Nowadays, people are doing less and less of physical work, even the sport they do in their leisure time doesnt compensate. Should that be further promoted, by saying "instead of getting fit, get a motor"?
Im not discussing the "let people ride what they want." part of your argument, but getting a bike and expecting to be fit straight away is really bad thinking. If you're not in a shape, good enough to properly ride a bike, then you definetly shouldn't be out on demanding trails, but first get in a healty condition first.
And that's exactly the degenerative modern mentality I'm talking about, people want everything immediately but just the idea of some physical effort makes them shake their heads with disgust.