Video: The Best & Worst Traits of the 2023 Enduro Field Test Bikes

 Don't forget it has a set tube color matching a kashima post.

 @lkubica: Barely!!!

 I'm sure Cesar Rojo knows a thing or two and something coming from him can't be a turd even if he tries. Enduro magazine has a positive review of it. We've seen PB testers not getting along with products loved by many in the past too.

 @lkubica: Kashima doesn't even match Kashima.

 And kill the Unno?

 @TheR: Then again, trying weird bikes can be a lot of fun.

Our MTB history is littered with head scratchers

 Yah id like a go on that Nicolai but the maintenance ... sheesh. Just put a gearbox in and be done.

 @donaarblitzen: for sure. some of my favorite (or "memorable" perhaps; the distinction blurs after a while) bikes over the years had what might be considered significant cons. we're adaptable creatures however, and can make all sorts of janky configurations work well enough for the purpose of having fun in the forest. i tend to find quirky bikes endearing.

 FMK should be the basis of all reviews going forward.

 @TheR: hahahaha!!!

 How is a con of the Nicolai, 'Lots of moving parts due to unique drivetrain and high pivot design', when it has one less cog for the chain to go around, than the Slash?

 @TheR: I dont ride enduro, so none of these bikes are for me. I still vote for kill the unno.

 @TheR: Guess what I'd do to the Trek!

 @aireeek: What you do on your own time in the privacy of your home is your business, bud.

 @LemonadeMoney: It also has that damper assembly embedded in the frame downtube.

 Working in a video right now explaining why I would or wouldn’t swap out

 @henryquinney: Add the Specialized enduro please!

 @demo7jumper: I’ve spent a fair bit of time on the enduro in the past. It was a great bike for the time but I wouldn’t want to go back to that effective top tube.

 @henryquinney: yes, please confirm that the Spire is still the bees knees

 @henryquinney: Genuine question regarding relationship of reach/TT numbers: please elaborate on your TT issue w/ Enduro: in comparable sizes (based on reach), the HD6 has ~10mm longer TT and the Slash has a ~15mm shorter TT than the Enduro. So which of those dimensions has "progressed" in time, relative to the "backwards" Enduro Geo? I've spent a lot of time searching geo charts looking for the 480-490mm reach number I need, and the reason I did not buy your Transition Spire is b/c the TT is *29mm shorter* than the comparable Enduro, which is already as cramped as I can stand while seated as a 6'1" rider w/ long limbs. Could it be you are talking not about "progression" of geometry but rather where you as an individual fall in the size charts?

 @powturn: Not really. I never said it was backwards - those aren't my words.

645ish top tube for a large is simply too much for me. This isn't only too long in terms of MY body, which you alluded to, but also in terms of balance - compared to something steeper in the seat tube, it just doesn't have that planted feeling on the front. I also feel that even my Spire has too long of a reach at 485. The Enduro is larger still. The combination of longer reach and lower stack again gives the Enduro a very large feeling. While it does have balance, I would say dimensionally I would like it to just be a little shorter and taller. I think this does a lot to give a better position in terms of feets, hands and eyes, and coaxing me towards and alround better riding technique.

The Enduro is a very good bike, whereas when it came out it was a fantastic one relative to anything else. Like I said, I'm putting something together and I hope it will address this larger topic. It won't be so much where the Spire or Enduro are, but more about where geometry is going.

 @henryquinney: I'm always a bit confused by effective top tube concerns - but genuinely curious to learn! Ultimately, my saddle is going to end up in the same place (relative to the bottom bracket) on a bike, assuming the crank arm lengths are identical. This is because there is an ideal/safest pedaling position that is principally a function of: crank arm length, femur length, tib/fib length (yes, I know, I am being reductive - but the point stands unless your personal dimensions are changing). Assuming a bike has a STA that allows me to get the saddle in this proper position, everything else comes down to how I feel with a given reach for a given stack height for a given cockpit setup.

The transition spire is a bit shorter in reach (7mm), and a bit higher in stack (4mm). That said, if you were to alter the bar height on the Enduro to match the Spire, you'd shorten the effective reach a bit anyway.

This is one of the reasons I've never understood the obsession with super steep seat tube angles. Of course, it has to be such that I can get that saddle position where I need it to be to create the perfect pedal stroke, but any fussing beyond that is pointless, and a slightly slacker STA also provides more effective saddle-drop for a dropper post.

 @KJP1230: the fuss is that designing your saddle position and fit based off flat ground road bike guidelines doesn't really work in steeper terrain. It's all a compromise.

Imagine dialing in that fit on flat ground, then raising the front of the bike up 10 degrees, this trashes your fit for a long climb by increasing your saddle setback relative to the BB. Steeper STAs are trying to replicate these proven relationships but for the climbing part of mountain biking, where most of us spend the majority of our time.

 @powturn: I can't speak for what @henryquinney feels, but I'll share my experience as I've owned the specialized Enduro for a couple of seasons and I've had the HD6 for a couple of months now. They are both great bikes!

Challenge: S sizing. S1 on an enduro represents an Extra Small t-shirt size while the S1 on the Ibis represents the Small. This is from conversations with both brands and looking at the Geo charts. The Reach on the enduro is 464 for the S3 and 487 for the S4 with an Effective TT of 619mm and 644mm respectively. The reach on the HD6 is 454 for the S2 and 480 for the S3 with an Effective TT of 610mm and 630mm respectively. Stack on the HD6 S2 is 625 and on the Enduro S3 it's 620. Comparing the sizes is difficult becuase the geo's are just different, That said, at 5'8" I'm confident I was on the right size enduro S3 and HD6 S2.

Results: The Enduro felt much more stretched out especially climbing. It was a great bike and super balanced with the slightly longer chainstay but the lower front end and longer reach did make the bike harder to manuever than the HD6 in both directions

My consensus between these two bike is that the Enduro was better for straight line speed. It was super composed and fast in the rough- that suspension was buttery smooth and the 29" wheel was fast. But the HD6 is an easier bike to ride. It pedals better and has better manueverability with the shorter reach, higher stack, and smaller rear wheel, so much so that on a lot of DH tracks I was able to set PR's over the Enduro once I got my suspension dialed. This bike rips in the corners and is great in the air. It accelerates up to speed really quickly too.

I wish the HD6 had a SWAT box, but I've gotten used to using pockets again.

I acknowledge that for someboy 1-1.5" taller than me, the Enduro may fit better. It's all about what fits you.

Also- I have felt Transition bikes to feel very cramped in the seated position. I like a slightly slacker STA.

 @Daray: Yep, and I don’t disagree at all. In fact, my bike fit was done on a stand/platform meant to mimic ascending. I can’t remember the specifics, but I believe it was set to a 5% grade. This was also useful in setting my saddle angle. Regardless, for most people, STA simply needs to accommodates reasonable range of selected saddle positions. Beyond that (and again: assuming this position can be achieved) STA itself and effective top tube (as compared to reach) become irrelevant.

 @henryquinney: I’m really excited for this. Over the summer I switched to some ridiculous high rise bars on my Spire to increase stack and ended up loving it. IMO reach got super long on trail
and enduro bike when geometry was still a bit conservative and reach provided some stability with the increased wheel base but now that ht angles have gotten slack enough the extra reach isn’t necessary.

 @DCF: can confirm. It's a great bike.

 @KJP1230: My understanding of effective top tube lengths vs reach has been that TT length is how long/short the bike will feel when seated. Whereas reach is how long the bike will feel when out of the saddle in attack position.

Not sure if that's 'accurate' or not, but that has been my experience. Went from a 455 reach on my old bike to a 485 on my new one and I feel really comfortable on both, despite the large jump in reach. I think the biggest reason why is that even though the reach jumped by 30mm, the TT only grew by 6mm, from 615 to 621. For my next bike reach is going back down to 460, but TT is growing another 6mm to 627. FYI I'm 5'9" usually in between sizes for most manufacturers, so I typically choose based off a combo of reach and TT lengths.

 @csmtb99: I went from a 460 reach with a 621 TT to a 485 reach with a 613 TT. The other option was 455 with a 585 TT which seemed like it was going to be cramped, but I was worried the 485 would be too big. Ended up being just fine with the bigger reach. 5'9" also.

 @FaahkEet: I'm finding that anything between 610-630 is optimal for my top tube lengths and it's really becoming one of the key things I look at for bike sizing. Reach for me only helps determine descending capability/stability.

It's interesting being between sizes as I can get along with a pretty wide range of reaches and TT lengths but I'm still really figuring out what I like most for an all around trail/all mountain bike. Being at the top end of medium and bottom end of large ranges basically means that most bikes are usually designed for people 2 inches shorter and 2 inches taller than you and I.

 @csmtb99: The overall point I'm making is that effective TT doesn't give me any actionable information that I'm not already getting from reach and stack, assuming that I am comparing reasonably similar bikes with workable seat tube angles.

I'm going to get my saddle in the exact same position relative to the bottom bracket for the same type of riding because there is an "optimal" pedaling position for a given type of riding. From there the bike fit comes down to reach and stack. Stack height can be effectively altered by playing with bar rise/stem spacers, which really just leaves reach.

Looking at the Transition Spire and Specialized Enduro that Henry was comparing, they are so similar that one could easily make them feel nearly identical in terms of pedaling position/feel on the bike, with the Enduro being between 5-7mm longer because of the reach figure. Hence, I've never been convinced how effective TT is useful to me, given that I need to know STA, reach and stack height to calculate it anyhow.

 @csmtb99: size your bikes off your wingspan, not your height. It's much more representative of the cockpit length you need compared to how tall you stand off the bike.

 Quite, buyers at this level should spend a bit of time to get their setup dialled for where they ride.

"Low stack height combined with long reach" - same thing, don't you just need to raise the bars and that will increase the effective stack and reduce the reach

 Indeed, but this is a stock bike review.

 @Gibnos: As stock they don't even have pedals, so some tinkering is to be expected.

 It may or may not take care of it depending on your position preference, your bar preference (hard to find carbon with >50mm rise), how much steerer tube is left to work with if you buy a complete, how closely you stick to the fork manufacturers' suggested max of 30mm of spacers if you're cutting your own.

I personally have a hard time getting comfy on an XL (~500mm reach) with 650mm stack despite running 50mm rise bars, +10mm stem and 30-40mm spacers. YMMV. It does matter to some people and at the end of the day it's just easier for me to buy a bike with a tall stack than try to rig ways around a low one.

 @jdejace: 190mm Zeb to the rescue...

 The issue is you can only run so many stem spacers (especially if they cut the steerer short from the factory). Once you need more than 35mm rise your bar options start to narrow really quickly. The stack being too low can make sizing a bike hard. You have to try and imagine if this bike would fit if I just do X,Y,Z. It also doesn't look the best

 @rojo-1: yes, sure or an EC lower cup since we're only talking about 10mm on this bike. I don't need 180mm much less 190mm on a single crown bike. One can rig all kinds of things if they are convinced the Ibis is special and they want to make it work. It's not how I would choose to spend my time/money but I'm not trying to convince anyone how they should spend theirs. Only pointing out stack height matters to some people.

 This, I don't understand Pinkbike obsession with stack height, add spacers and run a 35-40mm riser bar.

 @jeremy3220: There are quite a few 50mm rise bars out there. I'm with OP that complaining about stack height is somewhat silly. It's far easier to raise stack than to lower stack. Spacers(steer tube allowing), higher rise bars, and higher rise stems all raise stack.

 @avg-roadie: I think most steerer tubes are rated for like 30mm with of spacers. Even with a 40mm rise can still be low on some bikes.

 @avg-roadie: It's probably not an issue for someone average height but for taller riders we often find companies making XL and XXL with low stack heights aimed at shorter riders wanting to size up. There are bikes where I'd be struggling to get the bars high enough with 40mm spacers and 50mm rise bars.

 @Explodo: Yeah they definitely exist. But a lot of bars don't come in 50 mm rise too. I like my OneUp carbon bars but that's not an option at 50 mm. Average height people complaining about stack might be silly. It's a real issue when you're tall.

 @jeremy3220: I looked up all the stack stats. Here they are highest to lowest for the sizes tested by PB:
Unno - 644.5
Commencal - 642.8
Nicolai - 640-646 (depending on rear wheel size)
Trek - 632.1
Nukeproof - 631.25
Ibis - 630
Pole - 625
Chromag - 625

Did PB complain about the Pole and Chromag being too low? If you can fix your "low" stack with a single 10mm spacer, is it really an issue? I get that the crowd of very tall people might want as much as possible, but for most people it's a non-issue in this case and I can only guess that PB is bringing it up just so they have something bad to say.

 @avg-roadie: I think its fair to mention that if you nearly everyone who tests the bike mentions the low stack height to spec a higher bar. Obviously people buying the high end models know what they like but for someone buying a cheaper model/newer to the sport having to swap parts right off the hop is annoying.

 @iridedj: I don’t think anyone buying this bike is new to the sport

 @sb666: I think it's for to say this might be someone's second bike. Ibis is a quite popular brand and all the reviews mention how easy it is to get along with.

 @Explodo: Comparing the HD6 and the Giga on a descent, you'll have more of your weight over the HD6's front wheel due to its longer reach, compressing its fork more and shock less, giving you an effectively lower front end. 15mm less travel in back on the HD6 adds to this. Stack, relative front and rear suspension travel, front center, and rear center all come into play--- For bikes with the same intended use, stack should probably be higher with longer reach, shorter chainstays, greater fork travel, and lesser shock travel.

 @Marcencinitas: Or, hear me out, you could set up your suspension properly so that static ideas of where your weight ends up don't throw the bike out of balance.

 @Explodo: Of course you can use body english and suspension tuning but if your bars are too low, you can't get your weight far enough back on a steep.

 I'm 195cm tall and that's why almost every bike's stack height is still too low for me. As most bikes come with 30mm rise bars these days, there is already a limitation, since most bars only come with 40mm rise max. Of course there are options like the ride high 50's, but I just don't get along with this bar and tbh it is also a question of style.
Putting more spacers under the stem is almost never possible, because bike companies cut off the steerer tubes way too short (I buy new forks every time I buy a bike because of that)! So at least for me and my body, a low stack height is a no-go with any bike/brand.

 @kage17: I've never been that bothered by low stack heigh at 193cm, generally what I 've seen is taller folks have proportionally longer arms which tend to still put a person in a sim position at least while standing....now not everybody is the same body wise, there are obviously variations between people. But if you or I stand next to somebody 180cm tall, hands are in a sim position, tall + long arms puts hands in the same or very sim spot.

 @RadBartTaylor: I'm 195cm and had tons of fun on bikes with bar height way below saddle height, until I rented a bike with a tall stack and riser bars--- My neck and hands stopped getting sore, I was leading the way down features I used to hesitate on, and had way more fun. Came home from that trip and sold my XC bike, replaced my enduro bike, and bought riser bars for my eBike. Good thing I was already divorced.

 @Marcencinitas: But I bet relatively speaking - your bars are still well below your saddle.

 It's pretty funny it's the bike that gets trashed for it's price but at the "low end" spec it's a very good value for the reasons you listed.

 @cassinonorth: Yep, just noticed that the lowest end NX/GX version comes with Code RSC brakes as well. The only real con for me is the frame color options.

 @charmingbob: Ibis - it does the job AND the Min/Max'ing for you.

 @cassinonorth: They specifically called out the high end spec for not being a great value

 @mkul7r4: I know. They don't mention the other build kits which are incredibly reasonable though.

 @charmingbob: horses for courses, but dang I think they covered their bases pretty damn well with those frame colors

 The roundtable discussion that's coming up might help you understand our findings a little better. I'd say your summaries are pretty accurate though - happy to explain any specific questions you might have.

 @mikekazimer: no questions, I will wait for the roundtable. Thank you so much for the response.

 @mikekazimer: Can you elaborate a bit on this negative for the Chromag: "Might feel too flexible and relaxed for some". As a luddite I don't really know what this means when reviewers describe a bike as being too flexible for some riders. Do you mean that in a preference sort of way, or in a way that means this bike will not be capable of riding what is demanded of it by some riders, maybe something else?

 @PeakHopper: I'll jump in for Kaz here - and hope I can do it justice. This bike really tracks well and does offer a huge amount of comfort. However, when there is a lot of grip on offer and high-load berms and turns you can feel your weight wash across the BB. If you ride techier, slippier, or slower trails it's not so present but if you really drive the bike with your feet you can come across it at times.

 @mikekazimer: not to pile it on but shouldn’t a con of the Nike proof be that their parent company is insolvent and there is no guarantee of support, warranty or even replacement parts at this time? I know I wouldn’t buy one till the dust settles. I would suggest they should be made clear so that consumers factor that into their buying decision. Feels like an important consideration for readers to factor in

 @henryquinney: "...high-load berms and turns you can feel your weight wash across the BB."

Can you describe this feeling a bit as I think this is where it's unclear to me. Are you feeling lateral flex in the BB itself in the high-load berms? Like, you're able to notice a bit of frame flexing around your legs/feet in these high-load scenarios or are you saying the tire is sliding/washing out because of this?

 @PeakHopper: Yep - lateral flex around and through the BB, although I would also think about the wings that the linkage is mounted to also contributing towards this lateral flex.

The issue in a way is that the tires aren't washing relative to how much your feet are moving, hence my comments on grip. Hope that helps.

 @henryquinney: Thanks, helps a lot, appreciate you taking the time to clarify!

 Because it means that while that one particular size handles great, the same may not be true if you happen to be buying a different size. This tends to make a pretty big difference the larger you go.

 @William42: Chromag Lowdown has same size chainstays and it isn't listed as a "con". Maybe the other sizes ride just as good or better?

 @William42: Yep, and when it comes to the Ibis, they tested the size 3. That's already inching towards the "shorter" rear end side of things, which is why it's being termed as "sporty". There are two larger sized frames (S5 is huge) that will get more proportionally unbalanced compared to the test bike.

 @mammal: using that logic maybe some of the bikes with reasonably long chainstays for the size tested may work better as the bikes get larger....

 @RadBartTaylor: yep, that's true as a general statement, depending your preferences for front/rear balace. I'd also say that bikes with static rear lengths are generally optimized for medium/large sizes, and it's the outliers that end up with the least balanced bikes.

The Unno Burn in the smallest size has a reach of 435 and 445CS, which would definitely be a unique experience.

 @William42: Exhibit A: Specialized Status.

 @mammal: I thought that size small MTB 's have had longer reach than chainstays since the mid eighties. Not sure it's unique. Maybe someone that actually know can pitch in?

 @uponcripplecreek: "Longer reach than chain stays", yes, that's preferable, and more common when looking at the middle-sizes in a bike lineup, or across the lineup when they scale CS length for various sizes.

 @ReformedRoadie: Yep, that's definitely one bike that outlines the polarity of F/R balance. Some people LOVE how playful the Status is, and some people can't stand the lack of stability. People usually have pretty extreme opinions on that bike, love it or hate it. Personally, I can't imagine riding the longest size with such wee chainstays.

 @RadBartTaylor: Nukeproof Giga has the same chainstay as well.

 @Daray: As does the Nicolai....wasn't shown as a negative either.

 @RadBartTaylor: I guess it just says a lot about the Ibis- it's a great bike no major complaints. Also I ride a medium, so a 435 chainstay works well for me and is pretty balanced. Most of my friends who are taller ride xl bikes and they prefer 29" wheels in the back so this bike wouldn't be at the top of their list anyway.

 @Daray: I wish my Giga stays were 5 or 10 mm longer.

 @uponcripplecreek: Its far from unique. For instance, the Banshee Prime V2 has longer CS than reach even in size medium. And the frame designer himself rode a medium, so its certainly not compromising performance.

And that bike got rave reviews for handling in every test it ever entered.

 I feel this, I so badly want to ride all of these for a lap. But in reality there's only a few that I would consider purchasing.

 “180mm Fork” not “for” and “Wouldn’t this negate” not “negative”. Stupid autocorrect.

 I think it means we tried to come up with a negative and latched on to this thing that's not really a negative but makes us sounds technical and knowledgeable.... lol One could like... put a spacer under the stem or have bars with a little bit more rise.

 The ibis seemed to do everything but very steep well and a 30-40mm rise bar would solve that. Go version is a decent deal too with factory suspension

 Transition Spire.

 Yes.

 The one you like looking at. Bikes are pretty fantastic nowadays.

 @Chusoo - all the bikes! No bike left behind!

 The simplest one. Imo the big takeaway from this test is that all the unconventional bikes just aren't very good.

 They don't want to make the bike too tall for people sizing up. Spank 60mm rise, or Deity 80mm rise bars should be plenty tall enough to remedy the problem. There's even some 100mm options on ebay that look decent if you need the super choppered-out setup.

 With these high pivots — I just don’t want to monkey around with all those jockey wheels. Maybe the extra drag and maintenance is minimal, but I just don’t want to mess with it. The Ibis seems to deliver a good, all-around ride without the extra fuss.

 36 pounds for the baller $9,500 build means It's pretty heavy though too. That's what, 38 pounds for a mid spec aluminum build? That's a lot of bike to pedal around on flatter trails, long rides, and flowy sections.

 Dario's first ride was so 'meh' it feels a bit contradictory to what they say now. I can't tell if they actually like it or not.

 @Glory831Guy: I’ve been told that radness doesn’t even begin until 39 pounds. And also, I’m a weight weenie because my bike weighs in at an anemic 33.2 pounds.

 You're in luck, stay tuned.

 @qbensis Dario hits me over the head with a microwave in one particularly heated exchange over axle path. I can't wait to share it with you all.

 @henryquinney: hahahaha!! The dynamic you all have with each other, and the fun you clearly have when working together, is very noticeable and a big part of the draw to partake/ watch/ engage with the content you are all creating. You guys are an all masters of your craft. Also just dropping a general comment here to everyone including the folks behind the scenes - the quality of video content has been impressive the last year and particularly so on this round of field tests from the intro to sound tracks to composition and delivery. Really top notch. Love what you all are doing. Keep it up.

 Your loyalty will pay off soon, this bike is going to introduce a lot of people to a great brand.

 I kinda want to see one without a seat tube, like a trials bike cross enduro

 Capra or capybara?

 Vital had the same problem. They said the pulley was installed with the wrong spacer. Once it was fixed the problem went away. I hope the production models are sent out with the proper spacers.