First Look: RockShox Boxxer Ultimate Fork

Jul 20, 2023
by Matt Beer  
photo


Stickers only go so far in covering up a pre-production fork. We’ve seen the BlackBox (RockShox’s prototype components) decals covering the sturdy-looking fork for nearly two seasons, but the official debut of the Boxxer Ultimate is here.

The Boxxer is entirely redesigned from the previous iteration. The most apparent change is the move from 35 to 38mm stanchions. A burlier chassis also takes features like the Charger 3 RC2 damper and ButterCups that were implemented on the Zeb, Lyrik, and Pike single crown forks a year ago, however, there is more at play inside the larger tubes than you may expect. In particular, the DebonAir+ air spring required clever engineering to work around the new stanchion size.

Boxxer Ultimate Details

• Travel options: 180, 190, 200 mm
• Redesigned 38mm stanchion chassis
• Fork offset: 44mm (27.5”), 48mm (27.5”, 29”) 52mm (29”)
• Charger 3 RC2 damper w/ high-speed compression, low-speed compression, and rebound
• DebonAir+ twin tube air spring with optimized air volume
• ButterCups on air and damper shafts
• Lubricating ports at end of stanchions
• Gloss Black or Signature Electric Red colors
• Boxxer 4-bolt fender incl. (aftermarket only)
• Weight: 2,840g (200mm travel, 48mm offset)
• MSRP: $1,899 USD, € 2,279 EUR*, £2,029 GBR* (*incl. VAT)
• rockshox.com



Tegan Cruz MY24 BOXXER Mt Prevost
The new 38mm-chassis Boxxer Ultimate versus...
RockShox Boxxer
...the previous generation with 35mm stanchions.

Chassis

Let’s start with the obvious first - 38mm stanchions. Riders have expressed their concerns with oversized tubes being overly stiff. RockShox says that they kept their eye on this when designing the new chassis and took careful consideration to not make this Boxxer brutally stiff.

At the bottom of the upper tubes, holes have been drilled to promote oil circulation as the fork moves through its travel. Upon bottom out, these ports are said to help evenly distribute the oil and reduce inconsistencies in the spring rate. SKF wiper seals and Maxima Plush Dynamic Suspension Lube take care of friction and keep the tubes sliding smoothly.

Laser etched on each stanchion are gradients to measure the effective axle to crown length at a glance. Another nice touch is the continued marking of the required torque of each bolt, including the Maxle DH.

photo
photo

Tegan Cruz MY24 BOXXER Mt Prevost
Tegan Cruz MY24 BOXXER Mt Prevost

The crowns see lots of material milled away and come in three offsets: 44, 48, and 52mm. The shortest and longest correspond to 27.5 and 29” front wheels, whereas the middle ground offset of 48mm is acceptable for either wheel size.

There’s also a new 4-bolt fender to come (included with aftermarket fork purchase) that will cover more area in front of and behind the arch than the Zeb’s short mud flap.

Compared to the previous chassis, there is a weight penalty of nearly 200g. All of those features inside the new architecture should come with performance benefits.



Tegan Cruz MY24 BOXXER Mt Prevost

DebonAir+ Twin Tube Air Spring

RockShox worked tirelessly to perfect the air spring on the new Boxxer. Moving to a larger diameter stanchion posed challenges to limiting the progressivity of the air spring as it moved through the 200mm of travel. The solution? A twin tube DebonAir+ air spring.

In the new fork a separate air chamber rides inside the 38mm stanchion and the traditional air spring was altered from 10mm to a hollow 14mm to allow for extra negative air volume. This makes the DebonAir+ twin tube RockShox’s most linear air spring yet. There’s also a revised bottom-out bumper, for those wincing impacts.

ButterCups are also at play in the Boxxer Ultimate and account for 10mm of the travel. Both the damper and air spring rods sit on the rubber elastomers to reduce high bump frequencies from trail chatter.



Tegan Cruz MY24 BOXXER Mt Prevost

Charger 3 RC2 Damper

Transitioning from their longer-travel single crown forks, RockShox has implemented the Charger 3 into the Boxxer Ultimate with high and low-speed compression, and rebound adjustments. RockShox touts the fact of eliminating “cross-talk” between the two compression adjustments. What that means is that you can now independently adjust one without affecting the other for straightforward tuning. The suspension fluid from Maxima is also designed to be silent as it circulates through the damper.


Tegan Cruz MY24 BOXXER Mt Prevost

Boxxer and Upgrades

Available on complete bikes only, a simpler Boxxer will also meet a certain price point for some customers. This fork will only have one compression adjuster and exclude the ButterCups, although the chassis remains the same and both the damper and spring can be retrofitted.

photo
Boxxer Details

• Travel options: 180, 190, 200 mm
• Redesigned 38mm stanchion chassis
• Fork offset: 44mm (27.5”), 48mm (27.5”, 29”) 52mm (29”)
• Charger 3 RC damper w/ compression and rebound
• DebonAir+ twin tube air spring with optimized air volume
• Lubricating ports at end of stanchions
• BoXXer 4-bolt fender avail.
• Weight: 2,680g (200mm travel, 48mm offset)
• MSRP: N/A (OEM only)

Charger RC3 Damper Upgrade
• Adjustments: high-speed compression, low-speed compression, and rebound
• ButterCups
• MSRP: $358 USD, €399 EUR*, £356 GBR*, *Includes VAT
DebonAir+ Air Spring Upgrade
• DebonAir+ twin tube air spring with ButterCups
• MSRP: $104 USD, €113 EUR*, £101 GBR*, *Includes VAT



photo


Posted In:
Reviews and Tech First Looks RockShox


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256 Comments
  • 172 13
 Dear RockShox, Please, oh please, bring back the red Lyrik. That is all.
  • 55 0
 I wonder if these lowers would fit on a zeb
  • 15 1
 Its not even "Boxxer red" anymore Frown
  • 33 69
flag likeittacky (Jul 20, 2023 at 9:36) (Below Threshold)
 Red.. one of the worst colors to coincide with 98% of bikes
  • 28 1
 Please do a red ZEB!
  • 78 3
 @likeittacky: orange would like to have a conversation
  • 72 6
 @likeittacky: It's subjective, but I think nothing is better than a raw alloy frame with a red fork.
  • 26 2
 @danielfloyd: especially with a red coil
  • 16 1
 @mtmc99: Heavy Meadow Green would also like to be cc'd in that conversation.
  • 1 0
 @danielfloyd: I have one, and sure is a looker.
  • 11 0
 @loosegoat: They fit (same pitch) but the Boxxer lowers are much taller (more bushing overlap) and will hit the ZEB crown by a lot. Also unsure if the ZEB tubes even catch the lower bushing at full extension.



It will 100% not work.
  • 3 0
 Ah something that decides to automatically go up and down , so we have drivetrains that are automatic suspension thats automatic bring back REM and everything is automatic
  • 4 7
 @mtmc99: I stated "one of the worst" not (the worst) so that orange would be one of the other ones of course.
  • 4 1
 @Compositepro: Automatic For The Dentists
  • 5 0
 I wish RockShox would always make both red and black forks available each year for Ultimate level products across all their top-tier products. I get that there’s history with a blue or yellow SID, etc. but red has been a staple with RockShox forever and it would be nice to see one staple color outside of black or one-off paint colors each year.
  • 1 0
 @Compositepro:
You mean for the people?
  • 1 0
 H@dcamp2:
  • 5 0
 Red Zeb Redemption
  • 1 0
 @danielfloyd: ah, stealing my dreams are you ?
  • 2 0
 @likeittacky: user name checks out
  • 1 4
 @therealnobody:You're so original with such profoundness, it must be an honor.
  • 1 0
 @likeittacky: Just so you know It wasn't me that downvoted your comment. You have to admit it was a pretty good application for the ol' "user name checks out" even if you don't like it lol
  • 1 0
 @therealnobody: I really don't give two shits, nor was i offended by something so frivolous. Let it be.
  • 1 0
 @likeittacky: should I take this opportunity to write a tasteless essay about the Beatles that clearly has no research?
  • 107 3
 A true Boxer fork would stroke horizontally
  • 10 2
 you just made realize I have 2 boxxers -one on my bike and one in my subi
  • 4 1
 Thank you.
  • 9 0
 no vape, head gaskets or piston ringland to be found
  • 65 18
 I can only laugh with the price tag....The only advantage against the other serious forks in the market was the price. Now it is gone...
  • 28 0
 c'mon, knowing how Rockshox sell other stuff in EU can say it will be around €1400 in a few month.
  • 4 0
 UVP... always breathing loosely through the pants.
  • 1 1
 @Muckal: immer locker durch die Hose!
  • 29 0
 Nah, the other manufacturers can now raise their prices and all will be well again
  • 4 0
 @wyric: Aha Sram GX transmission about 18% off already
  • 1 12
flag baca262 (Jul 20, 2023 at 9:09) (Below Threshold)
 they did up the game though and are now i'd say the most serious player in business when it comes to dh fork except for fox, they're in a league of their own. the only flaw with this (and many others) fork is no separate oil/dust seal.
  • 2 3
 The standard Boxxer is $500 cheaper at least. Still has the twin tube airshock, but doesn't have buttercups.
  • 3 0
 @baca262: any reason for wanting a separate oil seal when not running a proper oil bath?
  • 2 0
 @mashrv1: longer lasting, less crud getting inside to wear the stanchions
  • 13 0
 Who ever buy rockshox at full retail
  • 14 1
 @briain: exactly they just give it the same RRP price as Fox so it doesn’t look inferior. Nobody on this planet will ever buy a RS fork at full retail.
  • 12 8
 you and whoever is upvoting you are seriously high. Fox especially isn't even on the same planet of performance right now for MTB suspension
  • 6 9
 @Slope-Style: I’ve been quite pleased with the 40 grip 2, I had a boxxer before but the 40 just floats through rough stuff, think I’ll dump the zeb for a 38 too
  • 4 1
 @thenotoriousmic: who buys stuff at full retail?
  • 43 6
 When I hear 'clever engineering' in rockshox article, I start to shiver.
  • 12 2
 Why does it mattoc?
  • 11 0
 @BenPea: thats Intend a good question!
  • 9 0
 That also pegs my BS meter too - methinks that's more marketing speak vs engineering.
  • 2 1
 @njcbps: better get your hands on an Intend fork. All that marketing BS...
  • 1 8
flag baca262 (Jul 20, 2023 at 13:35) (Below Threshold)
 @njcbps: dudes, this is the first fork around with something done to separate low and high speed compression, it's actual engineering
  • 3 0
 I didn’t know whether to up or downvote that comment..
Because I’m all about SRAM, but they can lose the plot the blink of an eye. Make a great product worse..
  • 2 0
 @Hamburgi: not sure Hubert's pun was Intended.
  • 2 0
 Judy should weigh in on the clever engineering.
  • 4 0
 Ah yes...the feeling of the original Super Deluxe spraying ones butthole with frothy black fluids., Refreshing to relive those moments. Even better were times you got sprayed as they passed by.
  • 7 0
 Haha. Marzocchi Shiver and monster had these oil circulation holes 20-25 years ago! I laugh every time fox and RS are touting 'new technology' that MARZOCCHI did first many years ago.
  • 5 0
 Haha. Marzocchi Shiver and monster had these oil circulation holes 20-25 years ago! I laugh every time fox and RS are touting 'new technology' that MARZOCCHI did first many years ago.
  • 3 0
 @baca262: no it isn't by any stretch. There's so many forks and shocks with separate high and low speed compression, I'm not sure which one was first. My 2014 Manitou Mattoc Pro has separate circuits, and that was based on Moto suspension that has had that tech for decades...
  • 1 3
 @Mac1987: again, so called mountain bikers are utterly clueless to what i've said. no, those aren't separate, you have to add a fair bit of high speed to get *any* low speed. that's not separate, what RS did here is.
  • 2 0
 @baca262:
It took me years to find a g-out that sent my bike into the high speed compression circuit consistently.
Here’s a great video from Vorsprung about the difference between low and high speed circuits.
www.youtube.com/watch?v=JEBNlHXUGdE&t=737s
  • 34 2
 it'd be nice if, in addition to the fancy air spring they offered coil. 38mm stanchions have enough sticktion on their own, and weight isn't a significant concern to the vast majority of dh riders.
  • 56 1
 and coils are just the best for consistent performance. I will die on this hill. #deathtoshockpumps
  • 11 0
 I'm sure Vorsprung or other aftermarket manufacturers will offer conversion kits. Not as simple or cheap as it would be if the fork shipped that way OEM but I would imagine you could sell the airspring easily to someone looking to upgrade the base level fork that came on their bike.
  • 1 0
 The air spring is now twin tube like fox has it already so the friction surface is less than on a ZEB
  • 16 2
 @adrennan: I will say, I love coils but dh forks are one of the few places where air springs are large enough that they feel pretty good.
  • 10 8
 @cougar797: you know what never changes? the spring rate of a coil. you know what changes? the spring rate of an air spring. feel is definitely part of why I love coil, but consistency of setup is my number one.
  • 24 2
 Manitou Dorado Comp
  • 2 2
 @adrennan: not only that but the outright linearity and linear progression. my dorado is annoying, when you pump it up so it doesn't blow through travel, you both can't bottom it and don't have enough sag. a non issue with a coil.
  • 1 0
 @CullenHerring: they're not interested in the DH forks business, asked all of them for a Fox 40 kit, none of them had one (and none in the works as far as they shared with me). That said it's probably very close to the Zeb / Fox 38 ones, longer shaft, longer spring, so there should be one kinda soon?
  • 5 0
 @baca262: I love my dorado. I had no issue finding the sweet spot. a psi or two makes a difference too.
  • 4 0
 @Ploutre: they’ve indicated DH fork Smashpots are in the works
  • 2 0
 @baca262: I have to hold my bike up so the fork is not touching the ground to adjust the air pressure properly. Pretty annoying but it works if you put your bottom bracket on your thigh/knee, and have your rear wheel on the ground.
  • 3 0
 I love my Smashpot in my Fox 36, but how come coil forks aren’t more common on World Cup DH bikes?
  • 7 0
 @wutamclan: I believe it’s just down to adjustability, the WC guys are constantly playing with small PSI changes or tokens depending on tracks to get dialed which is much hard to do with a coil, they are also strong enough to handle a less supple fork, comfort isn’t their aim.
  • 1 0
 @maglor: why do most use a coil shock then? Seems strange to mix the two, but its common.
  • 1 0
 @baca262:
Try running your ++ chamber closer in pressure to the + chamber. (Not 50% more, like 10-20% more than the +)
  • 1 0
 @baca262:
And so 70psi in top, 77 in bottom. Etc
You should be able to set it up so its really supple at the top, yet supportive through the mid, and hardly ever/never bottom out because of the HBO.
  • 2 1
 @wburnes: significantly easier to change out a coil on a shock compared to a fork. Also there’s surprisingly large number of teams like commencal using air shocks.
  • 3 0
 @spicysparkes: I don't think there's much in it. Most coil forks would simply be a case of undoing the top cap, pushing down on the fork so the spring pops out, pulling it out, dropping the new one in and doing it all back up again. Occasionally you need to take the lowers off, but given the pro DH boys are doing a lowers service every track that doesn't seem like a massive issue.

On the rear shock you have to undo 2/3 bolts to get the shock off, then unscrew the spring backplate (can't remember its name), slide the spring off, and then reverse the procedure.

Probably 10 mins for each end, no?

what is different is that the rear shock has a lot more leverage over the seals (you're typically running a 4:1 ratio through the linkage, whereas the fork is 1:1), but I'm not sure why that would encourage the use of a air can (if anything the other way round). perhaps its simply weight?
  • 2 1
 @hughlunnon: The only real advantage of air is micro-adjustability and this can be partially addressed with Sprindex (which btw. I highly recommend). Springs come at very best in 25lb increments but the worst thing is that spring rate has a very large error and making them to the exact spec +- 5lbs would make them very expensive. So in reality Sprindex-like rate control is the only practical thing to do. But making them for forks is a challenge since fork springs have a lot more coils, so the adjuster cannot be as simple as for shocks.
  • 2 0
 @baca262: Blowing through travel isn't spring-rate, it's compression damping. The Dorado Expert and Pro have LSC and HSC adjusters by the dropout. They make a big difference, unlike other forks on the market.
  • 1 0
 @wburnes: probably becuase tuning a shocks spring rate is done in the frame kinematics but if you want to tune things like mid stroke support and progression on a fork then air is much easier, coil also has a much bigger weight impact on a larger fork spring than it does on a shock.
  • 1 0
 @adrennan: That can be the downside of coil too though. Set up windows could be largely out to lunch, as you cannot fine-tune the spring rate close enough to a person's weight and terrain. For instance, the older Boxxer coils have 5 different springs to cover under 140lbs- 200+lbs riders. Each spring has a 20lb range, and if you fall outside of that, you are going to be compromising somehow. The set up guide for a Fox 40 shows that for every 10 lbs the rider's weight increases, the spring rate changes only 4 PSI. As an owner of a 40, I can tell you a couple of PSI can make a pretty noticeable and useable difference. Coil forks are just too limited here, especially because it only relies on the spring weight+ damper to control their movements/ bottom out. At least on the rear shock, you also have the frames ramp up to help with bottom outs. Air forks, especially DH forks with their massive air springs, perform very well, and I would argue that they perform close enough to their coil counterparts for the pros outweigh the cons with them. I also would think that a coil overtime will become less "stiff" and therefore, increase the sag.

That all being said, it seems like there are negatives to both setups (coil reacts consistently, but limited spring rates. Airsprings are much more fine tuneable, but can change slightly with heat and what not).
  • 1 0
 @leon-forfar: the companies doing it right offer a lot more coil rates (vorsprung has like 10). But at least for me, I feel like since the coil is so consistent, once I have a spring rate close enough, I can get the rest the way there with compression/rebound and get used to it.
  • 1 0
 @adrennan: Fair enough!
  • 28 1
 Should I drill out the stanchions of my fork to promote oil flow?
  • 13 0
 yes
  • 1 0
 If it has twin tube, try it out.
  • 1 0
 i wouldn't, you don't know if the stanchion wall is thick enough to get away with it. what you could do is slot the lower bushings
  • 7 0
 Speed holes
  • 1 0
 It also lowers weight and improves compliancy!
  • 16 0
 So what are the benefits of 38mm stanchions when they require engineering to make them "not brutally stiff," yet another air spring (which based on RS history will go through multiple iterations as they sort out issues), and +200 grams?

More room for damping tech?
  • 57 0
 bigger number more better for marketing
  • 4 25
flag baca262 (Jul 20, 2023 at 9:15) (Below Threshold)
 35mm @29" is a noodle. for me, 38mm on a 26" wheel is optimum.
  • 5 2
 @adrennan: this! Looks is the most important for a lot of people.
  • 10 1
 @baca262: I ride a newer Boxxer 29 w/ 35mm stanchions, far from a noodle. Not sure how it compares to a Fox 40 or an Ohlins 38, but far stiffer than my Fox 38 29er fork.
  • 22 1
 My experience of Fox riders' reasoning why they don't like Rockshox is "They look too skinny". So they might just be tapping into that crowd.
  • 12 5
 @baca262: It makes very little difference in single crown going from a lyric to a zeb because the greatest weakness is the crown.
  • 4 1
 @robotdave: I found the 40 too stiff on my aurum HSP at 220 lbs, total system stiffness was too much. Boxxer was perfect!
  • 2 0
 @poah: i had a 35mm 888 back in the day, i know how stiff it is. it's nice to have a little give from 35mm but if you really pushed it into the gnar, 38mm would track straighter and would get much less deflection off side punches. "harshness" be damned, also the less fork flexes, the less bushing bind
  • 10 0
 It wasn't riders complaining, that's just them fighting their own previous marketing. Once the 40 came around and was/is awesome, RS started saying the 35mm Boxxers were better _because_ they were flexier. Now that they're getting stiffer themselves, the new marketing is just playing off that by saying "stiff, but not too stiff like those other guys, because engineering!"
  • 7 1
 @adrennan got it right. @poah I hear ya on the 35 on 888 back in the day, but there are so many other factors that contribute to stiffness vs. just stanchion diameter (material, wall thickness, etc.).

My original comment was alluding to the overall tone of this article, which to me reads like: "Hey! Boxxers are now 38mm, even though it's heavier and we had to do a bunch of engineering to make it work..." without explaining any actual benefits.

I'm sure there may be some benefits to 38mm besides "MOAR GIRTH MARKETING," but all I see is the planned obsolescence of 35mm Boxxers (no backwards compatibility w/ new air springs, dampers, different offset crowns, etc).

Also...RS has always had different offset crown options for Boxxers. I have the +0 crown, which gives 46mm offset for 29r (feels great on the park bike) and 36mm offset for 650b.
  • 3 2
 @robotdave: it's not "planned obsolescence". They didn't make the old ones 35mm with the intention of going to 38 and leaving them behind. It's just progress and a lack of backwards compatibility. Happens all the time: they have no incentive, and should not have any expectations put upon them, to keep making improvements to old architecture.
  • 6 0
 @justinfoil: I get it happens all the time...it's still "planned obsolescence," that's how this entire industry works.

Old ones were 35mm which aligned with Lyriks, so obvious manufacturing synergies there and why they chose 35mm. What I'm saying is, this article does not give a REAL reason for going 38mm (and leaving 35mm behind).

I know I'll eventually have to get a new fork (hope they keep supporting 35mm boxxers for a while so I don't have to). Just a bummer when the "new architecture" doesn't seem to have any obvious benefits over the "old architecture."

Obviously there are manufacturing efficiencies with commonality between Zebs and Boxxers now...so I guess they might as well (even though they still sell 35mm Lyriks).
  • 2 0
 @robotdave: I don’t think he understands wall thickness and thinks all tubes are identical except for diameter.
  • 2 1
 @robotdave: Of course a dual crown is stiffer than a single crown, no surprise there. However, the Boxxer 35 is very flexible under braking! So much so that it can cause binding!
  • 1 2
 @SintraFreeride: look at how my first comment here fared. people ride it with their own actual hands and don't believe it.
  • 3 0
 @baca262: there were pictures from a while back, a couple years maybe, showing a landing after a jump or drop in a race where we saw the flex in the DC forks. One Boxxer looked like it gave its life for that landing it was flexed so far.
  • 2 1
 @robotdave: every industry works like that. New things come out, they are not backwards compatible, that's life, not planned obsolescence. That would be something like iPhones where the battery is not easily replaceable yet will degrade over time. Means the device will for sure eventually be less useful with little recourse for the owner. Or any phone without expandable storage: we will always need more storage, if you can't add it later then the plan is obviously to chuck it and get a new one.

The old Boxxers still work same as they ever have, and RS will continue to provide maintenance parts for a while, which means they're not even obsolete at all, let alone "planned from the start to be obsolete".
  • 3 0
 @FaahkEet: yeah the huck to flats showed it up too! Fork only traveled half, to 2/3rds before it come to a rock solid stop, cos the tubes flexed so much between bushings and bound up completely causing it to come to a harsh stop
  • 3 0
 @FaahkEet:
p.vitalmtb.com/photos/users/44569/photos/133106/s1600_IMG_3544.jpg?VersionId=lfhgR45MfmS2sdqErjDcZBp9A_p6w9MQ
  • 14 0
 I had to take a moment to remind myself before clicking this article that no matter how sexy or cool this fork is, it doesn’t make my 2019 red Boxxer any less sexy or cool… I’ll just keep telling myself this until I’m not so poor.
  • 10 0
 I’m sorry, buddy. But your 2019 Boxxer is obsolete and unrideable now.
  • 3 0
 @mtb-jon: For reals. It's actually at the point where riding it is dangerous.
  • 1 0
 @mtb-jon: sucks to be you
  • 1 0
 @baca262: Nah fam, I am on 2022 fox 38!
  • 1 0
 @mtb-jon: lol i failed hard, i read that MY boxxer 2019
  • 12 0
 I wish everyone etched on the torque numbers. That would certainly cut down on the frustrating last minute google searches. I guess this is just a reminder to compile a spreadsheet for my bike...
  • 2 0
 i usually print out the support pages and have each bikes laminated copies in each folder, very helpful. i do like the marked NM on bolts etc however i do find sometimes they look kinda shitty.
  • 10 0
 Rockshox, please please make a light weight lyrik dual crown, bring some of the DC benefits to a 160-170mm travel enduro fork in a lighter package (not a now nearly 3kg boxxer) with more travel for a given A2C, more bush overlap, easier offset adjustment, the longer more linear air spring, and hopefully lighter than a Zeb, I feel this would be the next revolution and people would be very on board with it, dual crowns are just cooler too.
  • 1 0
 This! A 35mm dual crown fork is almost always going to be stiffer than a 38mm single crown fork, and could probably me made to weigh around the same too often guess? I think the only company who have openly pointed this out is Formula, and their dual crown enduro fork still hasn’t appeared for sale yet so who knows!
  • 1 0
 @samdaman1: Their previous 35mm Boxxers were close to this! But agreed, more bush overlap and easier offset adjustment would be great.

Running one at 180mm on my newer Transition Patrol alloy (with +0 offset crown for 46mm offset on 29r). Without a shit ton of spacers, it's way too linear for me (I think I have 4 or 5 in there now), plenty of room to work with (especially when lowered less than stock 200mm).

Probably wouldn't be able to get it lighter than a Zeb (two crowns after all), but I bet they could get it close with a dedicated effort.

Tough product marketing positioning though, all of the manufacturers have sunk to much $$ into their 38mm single crown platforms and a lightweight DC would overlap too much from a use-case perspective.
  • 1 0
 @robotdave: how’s the turning radius on that Been thinking about trying it since I have a Boxxer sitting around
  • 1 0
 @wodasini: It's fine! Would be better with Fox 40 or Ohlins (or probably the new Boxxer).

For all intents and purposes, I don't notice it during descents in the bike park. If I actually pedaled the bike more, might be annoying in tight switchbacks going uphill, etc. But I never notice the turning radius on bike park laps.

I think the headtube for the carbon spires/patrols would be way worse (way fatter headtube).
  • 15 1
 cutterbups
  • 6 0
 Is tube within a tube really twin-tube? This article gives the impression that the outer tube doesn't have anything to do with the spring, it just carries the legs... If the spring part only needs one tube to do it's job, then it's not a twin-tube spring.
  • 9 0
 Will there be a flight attendant version? I like to lock my dual crown out for long climbs.
  • 10 2
 This fork in the half price sale plus a coil conversion and we're really onto something.
  • 1 1
 Half price sale?
  • 8 1
 I'm currently drilling speed holes in my fork! My initial attempt with pickaxe failed...
  • 2 0
 Not enoug penetration?
  • 2 0
 @HankDamage: youtu.be/G3ja6Hn8ps4
  • 6 0
 Why would larger diameter stanchions make it harder to engineer a less progressive air spring? I thought increased volume served to limit progressivity? I'm dumb.
  • 3 0
 it's all poorly worded. progressiveness depends on how big the positive chamber is, if it's much bigger than the piston travel there won't be any perceptible progression at all (i rode a 888 with homemade air preload only, no springs, the thing set at normal sag literally floated over everything but could be bottomed without effort at all). the problem with air spring is the progression without the chamber getting smaller is just too low, coil springs progress just right, so a simple average pos/neg chamber only air spring just blows through travel and then suddenly progresses before bottom out.
  • 11 5
 Hey look we added lines for the crown so you don’t need to measure, but sag nope you need to measure that again.
  • 10 1
 Because the first thing you're able to measure accurately, and the second one you can't
  • 18 1
 no one measures sag anyways
  • 6 0
 @MissedTheBoost: I do it exactly once when I first buy the fork. From that moment on, it's adjustment based on experience during the ride.
  • 4 0
 @TimMog: Put together a Fox 40 for the first time ever yesterday and was thinking how useful lines on the upper stanchions would be.
  • 3 0
 Kind of related, but anyone upgraded to the debonair+ spring or have a new RS fork with that spring and unable to use full travel even with big hits/drops? Zeb A1 the C1 air spring I'd easily blow through the travel at 20% sag with 2 tokens, didn't like ramp up with more tokens and didn't feel very supportive in mid-travel either, but with the debonair+ there's always 15 or so mm travel untouched at 30% sag. I saw one review mention full travel was difficult to use, but mine is impossible. Perhaps borked up the install. Ordered one of those TruTune carbon inserts that I hope helps but have little confidence it will make a difference, but I got it on sale so worth a try I suppose.
  • 4 0
 That is why boxxer has the twin tube like the 38. Surely the Zeb will follow.
  • 1 0
 @cxfahrer: Thanks, unlikely the twin tube will be backwards compatible from my understanding of the internals but one can hope or have a better understanding of the engineering. Also hope that carbon insert does as it says, will find out in the next week though.
  • 10 3
 welp... looks like I'll be buying Marzocchi
  • 4 0
 I always liked half the Boxxer logo laser etched on the stanchion. That's something that would be cool to see brought back. And white fork lowers.
  • 3 0
 The Boxxer Keronite was probably the best a Boxxer ever looked in my opinion
  • 1 0
 @samdaman1: absolutely loathe the double allen wrench axle though
  • 2 1
 The holes in the stanchions seem like a clever idea. I wonder whether it would make a basic lower leg service any more messy though. Maybe if you orient them both (both left and right stanchion) such that all holes are on the same side, you can remove the lowers with all holes facing up (provided you remove the lowers with the fork horizontal).
  • 3 0
 It wouldn’t really affect the lower service would it? It would all drain out the same once you remove the foot bolts I would think
  • 1 0
 @Motoracer31: If it does, then all good indeed. I was wondering whether there'd be oil trapped inside the stanchions which, during a quick lower leg service, you don't open. If it all somehow drains when you remove the foot bolts then it doesn't matter indeed. Now that these aren't open bath forks, the oil in the lower leg is the oil that typically gets contaminated and which you really want to be able to replace completely without any residue anywhere.
  • 2 0
 @vinay: yea if its a closed cartridge then where ever the holes lead to would be open at the bottom. It cant be a closed cartridge with holes haha. it must just drain right back down to the bottom. Wouldnt make sense to trap the oil away from the bushings and seals
  • 1 0
 @Motoracer31: I've not opened that fork. Sure it can be a closed cartridge as long as the piston at the end of the push rod stays above those holes. If it is an open bath, that'd be a big change to what they still call a Charger Damper. I thought they were just to help oil shift past the lower bushing. So as you bottom out, part of the oil enters the bottom of the stanchion. Close to top out, this oil is driven out by the underside of the piston (which is connected to the pushrod) and disposed between between the bushings. But yeah, we'll sure get a more graphic explanation of what it is supposed to do.
  • 1 0
 @vinay: haha yea exactly, if the piston is above the holes, then the holes just drain back into the lowers. And then it does not affect lower service haha its certainly not an open bath fork, that tech can die with DVO lol
  • 2 0
 @vinay: i think it's a moot point, the only real solution is to actually care about bushing tolerances and fit. i've a dorado, where bushings are always under oil and it's still sticky because one bushing wasn't fit right, small part of it is worn all the way to backing metal. that fork shouldn't have passed qc, which is obvioulsy non existant in that regard
  • 2 0
 @vinay: @Motoracer31: you both have it wrong, at least in bike world. In both open-bath (in recent history at least) and closed dampers, the damper piston rides inside its own tube (cartridge). The closed or open-ness is just whether the damper oil lives in the leg, also acting as bath oil, and circulates in and out of the cartridge, or if the damper oil is held inside the cartridge separate from the bath oil. Or a hybrid like GRIP2, where the damper oil is primarily held in, but can be circulated in and out (bath oil is the same oil) as needed for temperature changes or whatever. Either way, the damper side hasn't depended on the stanchion wall in quite a while, the holes won't effect it at all.

In fact maybe that the big impetus to move to the inner air spring tube. They really wanted the holes for oil movement for better lubrication, but that means the entire air spring either ends up relatively short/small (and hard to service) with the "end" cap above the holes, or it gets its own tube like the damper and can be full length (and easier to service).
  • 1 0
 @justinfoil: Yea most everything in motocross also, the cartridge is also its own piece. We wer just thinking like the older boxxer setup. But yea on the new style where its literally just a cartridge that bolts in the top and bottom it wolnt affect anything. The air spring is an interesting point tho
  • 1 0
 @justinfoil: Oh yeah, you're right! I checked. The compression cartridge goes threads into the top of the stanchion and the rebound unit is attached to the push rod clipping in from underneath. But the rebound unit indeed has a cup that goes all the way up to the compression cartridge so the oil I'm dumping in and driving out doesn't go in the stanchion but indeed stays inside the cup. The air spring piston indeed slides in the stanchion itself. Time to open up my Marzocchi DirtJumper again...
  • 3 0
 I'd have thought they'd have released the Vivid at the same time. Clearly not.

I also wonder when the new brake will launch—maybe that's still in proto though.
  • 4 0
 The UK price For the Ultimate is ridiculous. £2029 is currently $2608 USD. European price is nearly as bad too.
  • 1 0
 So a bigger spring volume made it too progressive... Even though everyone, including RS, has been saying for a while that larger volume air springs are less progressive. Especially with the hollow (pretty sure it already was, that's how the Secus works) and bigger air spring shaft adding more negative volume... they would have had more volume already with the bigger tubes.

I wonder if adding surface area to the high pressure piston seals added more stiction than they could handle on a big ~38mm (whatever the inside diameter is) spring. The Fox 40 seems to be able to get the springs right with even larger tubes, though... Maybe they just like the idea of isolating the spring to allow coil to air swaps.
  • 2 1
 I'm keen to see how long those buttercups last before getting destroyed, elastomer should have stayed in the 90's. I'd love to see how much compression force these cups take to move before the fork breaks the internal sticking compared to standard forks
  • 2 1
 38mm stanchions will sell more boxxers. RS should have chosen different or additional color other than red, and different decals..a copper, would have been cool, or even stuck with their current Grey, Lyrik dark green, whatever - something that pops a bit..like Kashima.
  • 4 0
 Too bad I already swapped my 2021 jellyboxxer and went for a nice Dorado Pro and i couldn't be more happy.
  • 4 0
 Coil option would be nice
  • 4 0
 Where are the purge valves? Fear of Fox lawsuit?
  • 1 0
 from the bikerumor article:
Finally, the new BoXXer benefits from so-called Lower Leg Plugs, a detailed image of which we don’t have to hand. However, this has an equivalent function to the Pressure Relief Valves implemented on the latest Zeb, Lyrik and Pike forks, allowing a release of air pressure that may have built up in the lowers during riding. It’s possible SRAM switched to the tweaked design in order to circumvent any potential patent infringement.
  • 2 1
 Looks promising. The 52mm offset on the 29er is definitely the sweet spot. Stoked about all these suspension manufacturers really stepping it up these days.
  • 7 0
 You think so? - I have always struggled with higher offset forks, much preferring mid 40's / the 44mm option with 29er front wheel.

Maybe its because I run a 40mm stem, not sure.
  • 3 1
 @justanotherusername: Well I'm gonna say it's 100% personal preference, bit the ride charictaristics does change quite a bit.
I started playing with offsets in 2019 after I noticed the Syndicate bikes were running the Morc offset crowns from MOJO Rising on the fox 40. At that time the offset was 58mm.
The Morc crowns were 50 or 55 offset.
I really enjoyed the 50mm offset, but found I really had to oversteer the bike in the corners, but the front wheel traction breakaway window felt huge. The 55, I felt the rider input was alot more responsive, but the traction breakaway window was a bit vague and had a narrow window.
I got on the Ohlins DH 38 to test for most if the 2020 season with a 54mm offset, and it was improved but not perfect.
Fox dropped the current gen 40 with a 52mm offset, and I really felt that it was the sweetspot for what I was looking for.
Stem length and head angle also play a huge roll here. I started on a 45mm stem option, but eventually went to a 50mm to help weight the front wheel a bit better.
Keeping in mind I generally prefer a longer reach bike. I'd say a shorter offset would be more beneficial for riders who prefer shorter reach numbers as it calms the chassis down in the corners when the riders weight balance ratio is higher.
  • 1 0
 @jomacba: hey, this is super interesting. I’ve thinking about the same. Currently have 44mm offset on a single crown on a Giga, but have been toying with getting a 180 dh38. Was thinking 54 offset and 50mm stem just to force the weight forward
  • 1 0
 @Monkeyass: Put a link up for the geometry and your height inseam and wingspan. I would generally go shorter than longer simply because it will increase your corner traction.
  • 1 0
 @jomacba: thanks

Geo tab here: us.nukeproof.com/products/2022-giga-297-carbon-rs

33 inseam and 182 wingspan (178cm tall)
  • 1 0
 Big disagree. I can't think of a reason I'd want my wheelbase to grow all while having less tire touch the ground. Low offset has been one of the best things to happen in modern bike geo IMO.
  • 1 0
 @succulentsausage: I'd love to hear your thoughts. Elaborate. Smile
  • 1 0
 @Monkeyass: what size frame are you on??
  • 1 0
 @jomacba: sorry, large
  • 1 0
 @Monkeyass: So your definitely riding a bike that's on the smaller size for your wingspan. I would 100% go with the 50mm offset. I would still go with the 50mm stem too as keeping the front end weighted down is super important.
What bar rise are you running, and what's the width?
  • 1 0
 @jomacba: yeah, i went down in reach by 5mm on this frame. Running 780 renthals
  • 1 0
 @Monkeyass: what's the rise?
  • 1 0
 @jomacba: sounds like you work for marketing dept. Are you talking about 0.05 seconds faster times on strave here ahahahaha Big Grin
  • 1 0
 @valrock: *Insert fast and furious quote here"
  • 1 0
 @jomacba: green
  • 1 0
 @Monkeyass: Sorry, what's the ride of your bars?
  • 1 0
 @jomacba: blue
  • 1 0
 @Monkeyass: TF is blue?
  • 3 0
 BASIC BOXXER MSRP €1679 MODEL ID FS-BXR-BSE-D1 (sram website)
  • 1 0
 bout time, now to just wait a few years for the inherent problems to be sorted an then wait for the updated version to be on sale
  • 1 1
 Lol at the price. GTFO. I'll snap up a spare old boxxer for now on the cheap as a back up fork and maybe my next bike will come stock with the new one in a few years... Or hopefully the new bike comes stock with a 40...
  • 1 0
 Looks great. You putting one through the paces Matt? Current conditions are a good test, lol.
  • 1 0
 thought this fork would never make it to the market, disappointed it's not a long term test already!
  • 4 3
 So there DH fork now has the same size stanchions as there enduro fork! About damn time.
  • 3 0
 Double crown Zeb. Nice.
  • 3 1
 Looks like(it belongs on) a session
  • 3 0
 Wiating for new vivid
  • 3 0
 The red is sexy
  • 1 0
 This is the color fox orange makes my eyes
  • 2 0
 I have a Zeb with buttercups. What happens when they wear out?
  • 4 0
 Buy another one?
  • 13 0
 The 200hour service kit includes new ButterCup internals. P/N 00.4318.025.199
  • 2 0
 You pay RS money to get new ones. They're included in the 200h service kit for the ultimate fork, which costs a bit more than the non-ultimate one
  • 3 1
 @pooceq: I get that you get new ones. But what happens when they wear out, why bother replacing them?

Does the rubber eventually go away and disintegrate? Compress and not do anything?

What are the symptoms of worn out buttercups?
  • 2 0
 @Canadmos: they probably just stop working when the elastomer would compress. It would take a while for the rubber to disintegrate completely in a closed environment

You'd have to compare the small bump compliance with and without them to tell the difference and if they're included in 200h service kit, I'd bet they can last quite a bit more than that
  • 1 0
 @Canadmos: if the elastomers wear out enough, you'll probably notice some free-play at the top of travel, since the cups will just be free floating. This jiggling will be happening during fork action as well, so eventually you might beat up the cup parts, but it really takes a while for good elastomers to just go bye-bye. More like they'll just get stiff and it'll be like you don't have the BCs.
  • 3 2
 Does the price include crowns? If not it’s more expensive that the Ohlins.
  • 11 0
 Of course it does.
  • 1 0
 Looking forward to this air spring tech making it down to the Zeb for MY2024
  • 3 1
 Also heavier now than the fox factory 40 is hmmm
  • 1 0
 MTB'r: I find that price reassuringly expensive.
RockShox: Yes, we thought you might.
  • 2 1
 "The only gold that matters" and how many elite men golds have rockshox won this year with the new boxxer? Oh...
  • 1 0
 "The crowns see lots of material milled away " - are you sure that's milling? It doesn't look like it to me...
  • 2 0
 pretty excited that now "old" new stock Boxxers will go on sale
  • 1 0
 And available next year or what? I could not find any online shops selling it
  • 1 0
 The machining is a lot nicer than Fox, it has that Billet look while the Fox 40 looks like cast.
  • 1 0
 The thicker the better I guess
  • 1 1
 Yep doing one and doing a ttx18 ohlins damper on it . Been waiting for this chasis.
  • 2 0
 Thicc
  • 1 0
 I will stick with my current boxxer
  • 2 1
 Funny how the weakest curruncy has the loweat price
  • 1 0
 Off to a great start not being orange!
  • 1 0
 Giant, you must mount this one on the new Glory !!!!
  • 1 2
 Am I missing something or is the main problem with RS for the last ten years or so that they are too linear and it’s a pain to get them not to dive and pack down?
  • 1 0
 nice... gonna pick up 35mm Boxxer on 60% off soon
  • 5 7
 Nice. The old boxxer was looking like a tall and skinny teenager with its 35mm stanchions since the 38mm single crowns came around. How awkward.
  • 6 0
 Funny 35mm is considered skinny. I recall some were worried the Boxxer would become too stiff when they moved up from 32mm (when the SC Syndicate was still riding their stuff).
  • 3 3
 @vinay: i found a 32mm old pike @140mm a noodle. even threw me off once because of it.
  • 6 0
 It seems they increased the diameter from 35 to 38 and than made a lot of effort to make it feel like 35 again.
  • 2 1
 I know everyone is really liking the new 38mm single crown forks for enduro but I thought the 35mm stanchion boxxers were actually a good fit for for most enduro applications. This is coming from a guy that currently owns an enduro bike with 38mm single crown stanchions and a dh bike with 35mm boxxers.
  • 1 0
 I also think that the dual crown fork solves the problem that most people complain about with single crown forks. CSU looseness and creaks. Pretty easy to fix when your crown bolts directly to your stanchion.
  • 1 0
 @vinay: my rockshox mag 20 looked so cool with its 25mm stanchions... but 93 was a while back...
  • 1 0
 @DKlassen8: 180mm skinny stanchion boxxer on a 160 Enduro bike is literally the perfect playful bike park bike imo light and poppy enough to play on but supportive enough to keep you off your face.
  • 1 0
 This one packs a punch.
  • 3 3
 Why would you test that on a 2009 trek session?
  • 6 0
 the elusive 2009 high pivot session.
  • 1 0
 It’s a gambler?
  • 1 0
 Looks and sounds great!
  • 1 1
 ii prefer 40mm stanch seems better for my surron
  • 2 0
 hey, it's a bicycle website, not a moped one
  • 1 0
 It's no Judy DH
  • 1 0
 Took ages but I like it.
  • 2 2
 Fork me, do want
  • 1 4
 You can buy the EXT fork for that price. almost 2k USD is ridonculous
  • 3 0
 EXT's Ferro, their dual crown inverted fork for electric motocross bikes, is the same price. extusa.bike/collections/forks/products/ext-ferro-e-mx-fork
  • 4 1
 @haen: yeah but that is only 36mm, so not really compatible 2023 onwards.
  • 2 0
 2 hour service interval V 200 hr
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