Review: The Raaw Madonna is a Boutique Beauty

Mar 25, 2019
by Paul Aston  



Raaw Mountain Bikes is a relatively new German brand headed by Ruben Torenbeek, who previously engineered at Ghost and then Scott, where he was the man behind the Hixon integrated handlebar and stem project. The Madonna is a high-end, aluminum, 160mm travel frame, built around 29" wheels. It's designed for aggressive riders that are looking for durability as well as performance. In 2017, when the Madonna was released, we had a chat to Ruben about the process.

At the time of getting the test bike, Raaw did not offer a complete package, so we custom built a bike to really test the limits of the chassis and build an EWS race-ready weapon, as well as a day-to-day bike that could climb, descend, and be neglected and keep on working. It was built with a longer travel 180mm Lyrik and 65mm stroke shock
Raaw Madonna Details

Intended use: Enduro
Rear Wheel Travel: 160mm (172mm with 65mm stroke shock)
Wheel size: 29"
Frame construction: aluminum
Sizes: M, L, XL (tested)
Colours: Raw / Black / Red
Frame weight: 3.8kg (incl. all hardware, w/o shock, size M, claimed)
Weight: 16.79kg / 37lbs (XL, Maxxis Minion DH, w/o pedals, actual)
Price: €2690 (frame kit)
Learn More: raawmtb.com
which Ruben calculated would give 172mm travel, over the standard 160mm. I'm all for more travel as it essentially weighs nothing, and my usual trails often ask for downhill capabilities. The bike is named after the 'Madonna Della Guardia' trail, a stalwart in the Finale Ligure riding and racing scene, so it was appropriate to put this bike through its paces on home turf.

The frame kit (frame, Fox DPX2 Factory shock, headset, axle and frame protection) is available for €2690, with the option of having a Fox Float X2 or DHX2 shock for a €150 surcharge. Now, two complete bikes are also available, both are built using a 170mm Fox 36 GRIP2 fork, DPX2 Factory shock, Stans Flow rims and Maxxis tires. €4990 for the 'Factory build' and €6490 'XTR build.' These prices include German VAT at 19%, so purchases from outside the EU will be reduced, but local taxes will apply. Currently, the Madonna can be shipped worldwide, with the exception of the USA and Canada (this should be an option in the very near-future).

bigquotesOverall the Raaw is an awesome machine that really can do it all. Paul Aston









Construction and Features


Raw Madonna Bike Test
The hidden pouch uses a press-stud fixing and is useful for storing small essentials.
Raw Madonna Bike Test
The lower part of the downtube provides some more storage for small tools or spares, there are metal loops that use the supplied velcro strap to hold them in place.

Raw Madonna Bike Test
The Trunnion-mounted shock runs on bearings, rather than bushings, for a smoother action.

To some, this might 'only' be an expensive aluminum frame, but it is a very well thought out piece of design, with more features than you can shake an aluminum tube at. Rather than solely thinking about performance and weight on paper, Raaw were aiming for durability and functionality as well.

These durability goals are obvious when taking a look at the bearings and pivot hardware that RAAW chose. Large 52mm bearings are used at the main pivot, which is the same size that is used in the lower cup of a tapered headset. For the rest of the pivot bearings, 28mm bearings are used, including at the upper shock mount, in order to reduce friction (this also means one spare could fit any pivot). In addition, with the exception of the main pivot, all other hardware only requires a 5mm hex key to work on. These decisions are something that aggressive, high mileage riders who slap a lot of turns will approve of, as changing bearings every month or two soon becomes wearing.

Integrated storage was something else Raaw were aiming for, similar to Specialized's SWAT system, to make it easier to carry everything you need without a bag. There is space for a bottle cage and full-size water bottle, along with a recess in the down tube for shock clearance and spare tube storage, with a strap also provided. Due to the way the top tube is constructed using two separate aluminum tubes, there is also a hidden pocket in the top tube and specially made pouch with press-stud for easy access. This is big enough to hold cash, keys, spare chain links, zip ties, and CO2 inflator.

Other details are the hollow forged frame parts, which reduce weight without leaving external pockets for mud to gather. A threaded bottom bracket, external cable routing and differently sized brake mounts that do away with adapters.

Raw Madonna Bike Test
External cable routing and a smart way to carry a spare hanger (I claim full credit for this ingenuity and it saved me on the last ride).
Raw Madonna Bike Test
Those huge main bearings and pivot could probably be used for further storage, jelly babies maybe?


Geometry & Sizing


The Madonna is only available in sizes medium, large and XL, which is probably sensible considering the amount of travel on tap and the big wheels could potentially cause problems for shorter riders.

The geometry is certainly modern, but also balanced. On a standard XL bike with 160mm fork, there is 500mm of reach, a 65° head angle, 35mm bottom bracket drop, 78.2° seat tube angle and 450 mm chainstay, adding up to a 1291mm wheelbase. Unlike most brands, Raaw opted for proportional length chainstays, with the medium using 440mm chainstays, the large 445mm chainstays and the 450mm chain stays on the XL. This should keep the front to rear wheel weight balance more consistent between the sizes.

With the 180mm travel Lyrik fork, the axle to crown height is 24mm longer than the 160mm travel Fox 36 it was designed around; these numbers change slightly to the ones on the geometry chart above. The reach reduces to 489 mm, head angle slackens to 64°, bottom bracket rises to -25mm drop, the seat tube slackens to 77.2° and the wheelbase adds up to 1297 mm.


Suspension Design


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The four-bar linkage suspension layout features a huge rocker link, delivering a consistently growing leverage ratio that ends at just over 20% of progression. This progression leads to great support and uses the 160mm of travel efficiently. The main pivot is designed around a one-by drivetrain, delivering superb pedaling efficiency, even when sprinting.

A high starting leverage ratio combined with ball bearings on the shock pivots makes the suspension supple from the start which promises to track the ground and create grip. The influence of braking on the suspension is designed to be very active at the beginning of the travel, allowing impacts to be absorbed while braking. Deeper in the travel the influence of braking increases and gives the rider slightly more stable geometry when things get rowdy.

Soon there will be a rocker-link for riders over 90-95 kg. The geo of this rocker link has been tweaked to use 65mm of stroke instead of 60mm to get 160mm of travel. This lowers the leverage ratio, which reduces the air pressure or spring rate needed and puts less force on the damping. This will be available in March as an upgrade for €200 and sometime next year as an option when purchasing a frame.




Specifications

Raw Madonna Bike Test
The Raaw featured a SRAM-heavy build, with the 35mm Descendant bar and stem leading the charge.
Raw Madonna Bike Test
Relatively cheap and cheerful, the GX crankset took a beating without blinking and the carbon-backed Mozarrt chainguide didn't drop a single chain.

As already mentioned, this bike was custom built for the review as no complete bikes were available at the time. SRAM provided the majority of the parts, with a 180mm travel Lyrik RC2 42mm offset fork, and longer stroke Super Deluxe RT with a TwistLoc remote lockout shock providing 12mm more travel than standard at 172 mm. There is also a SRAM GX Eagle drivetrain, Code RSC brakes with 200/180mm rotors, a Truvativ cockpit, a 170mm Reverb dropper post, Newmen E30 wheels, and I mostly used Schwalbe's Eddy Current eMTB tires front and rear.

Specifications
Price
Travel 172mm
Rear Shock Rockshox Super Deluxe Coil RT, remote 400lb spring 65mm stroke
Fork Rockshox Lyrik RC2 29" 180mm, 42mm offset
Headset Acros
Cassette SRAM Eagle GX
Crankarms SRAM GX 170mm 34t chainring
Chainguide Mozarrt
Bottom Bracket SRAM GXP
Pedals One UP
Rear Derailleur SRAM Eagle GX
Chain SRAM Eagle X01
Shifter Pods SRAM Eagle GX
Handlebar Truvativ Descendant Aluminium 35mm, 25mm rise, 800mm width
Stem Truvativ Descendant 35mm, 40mm length
Grips Renthal Push on
Brakes SRAM Code RSC 200/180mm rotors
Wheelset Newmen E30 Boost, XD driver
Tires Schwalbe Eddy Current front
Seat SQ Lab
Seatpost Rockshox Reverb 170mm 1X lever




Raw Madonna Bike Test








Test Bike Setup

After building the Madonna, it was probably one of the easiest bikes to set up thanks to the RockShox suspension. No tokens, 90psi, with minimal high and low-speed compression for comfortable arms on the long and rough trails I frequent. I used a 400 lb/in spring on the Super Deluxe coil and the only thing to do was set the rebound.

The Madonna has been my go-to pedal bike since last August and has had a whole load of abuse thrown at it, mostly around Finale Ligure including taking on the 52km EWS round last October. It was also abused by the 100kg, 'World's Fastest Albanian,' Genc Marku, at a few local races and battered for a few days guiding to try and finish it off – it took everything in its stride and is still fully functional.
Paul Aston
Paul Aston
Location: Finale Ligure, Italy
Age: 33
Height: 6'1"
Weight: 75kg
Industry affiliations / sponsors: None
Instagram: @astonator

Weight: I'm expecting many Pinkbiker's to read the weight figures in the details box at the start of this article and go straight to the comments to moan about the 37 lb weight of this bike, saying that 'X-bike weighs 27lbs and can be raced blah blah blah.' But this needs to be put into context. First, this machine has been hammered for months and has not missed a single beat, and it survived a brutal EWS race where I passed rider after rider with mechanicals issues. I do not believe there are many racers that finish one of these events with a complete, race ready bike that weighs less than 33lbs, but am happy to be proven wrong. The weight includes all alloy parts, 29" x 2.5" DH casing Maxxis Minion tires, a coil shock with a lockout, chainguide, mid-range GX Eagle, 170mm dropper post and the OneUp tool. The frame weight of 3.8kg is around a kilo more than a Scott Ransom for example, so if you wanted to, you could get this bike down around the 30 lb mark. I prefer to pedal a few extra pounds and not carry the bike down the trail.


Raw Madonna Bike Test


Climbing

The Raaw climbs extremely well for a bike in this category, and flies from the start. I think this bike is more proof that the riders position in relation to the bottom bracket can be more important than the suspension design itself for pedaling efficiency. I measured an actual seat angle of 76º at my preferred saddle height of 74cm from the BB center, this makes it one of the steepest on the market without getting confused about different manufacturers' measurements. Despite people saying my knees will explode, they, along with my lower back and hips never felt better - even riding back along the beachfront after completing the 52km EWS race in Finale I was upright and comfortable.

Standing up and putting down the power, the Raaw still kept pushing forward with little lag despite the long travel and 'scary' numbers on the weight scale. It also provided great uphill traction, with its only climbing downside being the low bottom bracket that makes pedal strikes more frequent. This is less of a problem when you're fresh, accurate, and on top of your game, but it did cause me a few problems when my eyes and heart rate were in the red when racing - I completely messed up two climbs by striking pedals and losing all momentum and a lot of time at the EWS. I would really look for something shorter than the 170mm cranks I chose to improve ground clearance on technical climbs.

The Twistloc remote did help with this by increasing the ride height, firming things up, but still giving good small bump compliance and grip. This is easily the best lockout system on the market and improved the climbing of the Raaw even further. Firming the suspension up by twisting the grip is easy at the bottom of the climbs, but can be slightly more difficult if you press the PopLoc button when already committed to a descent and holding on for dear-life – you need to release your grip slightly to let it rotate back to the open position but this becomes natural quickly.


Raw Madonna Bike Test


Descending

There's barely anything that got in the way of the Raaw on the way back down the hill. Big wheels and lots of travel meant it could take on everything with ease and I would be happy to take this bike to many full-on downhill tracks. The coil sprung suspension was superbly supple off the top, giving great traction and a smooth ride. The rear suspension had support in all the right places and plenty in reserve for the biggest of hits.

The low bottom bracket gave a secure feeling and placed me in the bike, rather than on top of it. This also helps to carve corners but being so low does slow down the switch between directions somewhat. The downside of a steep seat angle, which becomes clear after riding downhill bikes with more relaxed or set-back saddles, is that the seat is getting in the way between your thighs more - the longer 170mm Reverb helped to get it out of the way, but I wouldn't say no to 200mm of drop.

Overall, the Raaw is an awesome machine that really can do it all. If I was nitpicking I would raise the bottom bracket slightly. I proved this was my preference by running a 500lb spring to raise the dynamic ride height, giving more breathing space when descending and climbing through rock sections, and sped up changes of direction; the Raaw has plenty of stability so raising the bike a little shouldn't have any negative effects.






How does it compare?

I didn't do a full review of the new Canyon Strive but it is the most similar bike I have ridden in recent times. Geometry-wise, I think the Raaw is ahead for its intended purpose with a slacker head and much steeper seat tube angle, and size-adjusted chainstay, rather than a one-size fits all solution. Canyon's Shapeshifter is a great concept, but the Raaw shows that geometry and a simple lock-out system can give you a better descending and climbing shape. The mighty Canyon brand offers much better value, though, than the one-man band behind Raaw.
Photo Boris Beyer


Technical Report

Storage: It was really useful having the little storage pockets on the bike, the OneUp EDC, and a bottle cage mount. I really like having everything on the bike, so that you can grab it from the shedand just get straight on the trail without checking that you have everything you need in a pack.

OneUp EDC: This tool stored away in the steerer tube was used many times, and it's quick and easy to use for small adjustments and repairs. Threading the steerer tube seems like a faff, but once done it does away with those silly star-nuts for good. If I had a collection of my own bikes, I would thread the steerer on each one and use the lockring headset cap (includes stem spacer and the lower steerer bung) which costs €20, then the tool can easily be transferred between bikes in seconds.

Double-sealed bearings: Even after months of use, racing, washing, riding in bad conditions, I popped off the double-sealed bearing caps to be presented by completely clean and smooth running bearings.


TwistLoc remote: The TwistLoc remote performed well and was easy to install. It should be run with SRAM's matching grips, or you end up with a small ridge if you use different diameter grips, as I found with my preferred Renthal Push-Ons.

I did lose the rubber cap on the shifter but replaced it with tape, and there is always a slight movement in the grip-shifter that cannot be stopped. This is slightly annoying but not noticeable on the trail – similar to how Centerlock rotors annoy people in the car park but you never feel that rocking when riding.
Raw Madonna Bike Test


GX Eagle: I'll never be convinced that hanging a derailleur off the back of a bike is the final solution for the type of (careless and often imprecise) riding I do, but, in this drivetrain's defense, it performed smoothly throughout the duration of the test. Months and months of riding only resulted in a few tweaks being made to the cable tension and limit adjusters.

RockShox Suspension: The Super Deluxe and Lyrik also performed without issue. There may be dampers that can give you marginally better performance, but these units are the best set-and-forget on the market. Despite the limited adjustment, they do everything that nearly anybody could want with no fuss and great reliability – perfect for riders who want to shred more than tweak dials.

SQ Lab 60X saddle: This saddle is actually marketed as an eMTB saddle but works fine on a pedal bike. The three levels can be used for different seated positions and they stop you sliding back on steep climbs. There is also nothing I have found that matches the comfort of these saddles when you have correctly measured your bum-bones and chosen the correct size – I wouldn't choose anything else.

Newmen A.30 wheels: I'm not going to say that these are 'unbreakable', but bloody hell, we did our best and they survived it all while other wheels from big players were falling apart by the day.
Raw Madonna Bike Test





Pros

+ Fantastic all-around weapon
+ Integrated storage and bottle mounts
+ Solid and durable build
Cons

- Low bottom bracket
- Expensive frame price





Is this the bike for you?

If you are looking for a great all-rounder and don't want to look like everybody else at the trailhead on their generic machines, the Madonna could be for you. It's a fantastic pedaler and descender, with attention to details that many of the big brands fail to deliver.



Pinkbike's Take
bigquotesThe Madonna is a solid speed weapon that will fly you up and down mountains with ease, smash through the roughest terrain and put up with neglect. It's a great option for people that care more about getting on with riding and trail performance than double-checking grams on a spreadsheet. Paul Aston








234 Comments

  • + 147
 "that will fly you up and down mountains with ease".
Really ? A 170 29er monster flying on uphill ?
What is a carbon cross country bike then ? A space rocket ?
Common sense has been lost for ever in MTB.
  • + 68
 It sometimes seems that the definition of climbing in MTB has changed from "climb up all the vert that you ride down" to "climb the short technical bit from the upper shuttle parking to the trailhead."
  • + 6
 If you account in the weight of the Minion DH tires (1400gr each) and the coil spring, then it is not that heavy. And if it climbs well with those Eddy Currents in the rear, then "with ease" is really remarkable.

My 15,3kg alumimum, Capra 29 with 170mm and DHR2 Exo climbs really well, too. Did 6600hm in Finale 2 weeks ago, uphill. And on none of the trails I would have wanted a carbon CC bike for the downs.

I wonder why that top tube is so short. With that steep seat angle, the XL should deserve a longer reach, say 530mm. The seat tube could be 490 or so also.
XL frames should not fit folks that are a mere 185cm, but 195cm. Otherwise I would call it a "L".
  • + 47
 MTB need a new "scale" for the climbing reviews.
No guys, No Paul Aston, the reference is not a mid trail full sus bike for reference (like a Spectral).
As a top reference, the best climber is a 8/9 kg lightwheight XC bike. And the worst a 170 29er weighing more than the empire state building.
PS : don't get me wrong, I have a Meta V4.2 with heavy coil weighing a ton. It "climbs" for sure, but it's a tank.
  • + 37
 He's a downhill racer at heart, so compared to everything else he rides and reviews, then maybe it does fly uphill. Context is important. Obviously it won't out climb a Spark or Epic. Common sense people
  • + 4
 Add on pedal, that thing weight 17kg lol. Definitely lighter than Kona Stinky but.
  • + 5
 @Spark24: what is this common sense your talking about?
  • + 31
 "Overall the Raaw is an awesome machine that really can do it all." Sweet,I've been looking for an xc race bike that I can dirt jump on as well.I'll buy one straight away.Many thanks PA.
  • + 6
 Man, you are too serious.. Ah yea, it's Monday lol
  • + 2
 Yeah and it weighs 37 pounds lol
  • + 7
 Why would a 17kg bike climb worse that a 12kg bike? When you climb it's always a rider + a bike, so gues what, 85kg rider on an XC bike has to do the same amout of work as 80kg rider on this "monster". But somehow you do not point fingers at riders saying - "what an idiot, he looks like 85kg, I would not even start climbing with such a heavy body". So what makes a difference is your suspension and tires.
  • + 0
 @cxfahrer: Sounds like you need a 2xl
  • + 4
 @Nella-Bella: oh... you're right! ... this is Pinkbike... None of us here are hindered by logic
  • + 3
 ...let's put big wheels on an anvil and see how it goes...
  • + 8
 @lkubica: we obviously compare bikes, not riders....
What's the point overwise ?
  • + 6
 @lkubica: I don't think it really works like that for physics reasons I don't understand. Ponder this, the average 500# obese woman, can not leg press 500#, in fact I'd be surprised if she could do 120#.
Body weight and the vehicle weight have a quite a different effect imo.I know this beyond any doubt: I can feel losing 2# on my bike easily but can't tell on my body at all.
  • - 5
flag NotNamed (Mar 25, 2019 at 6:59) (Below Threshold)
 @SunsPSD: Frame weight wont affect the uphill performance, heavy rubber and wheels/ cassettes affect it because of rotational mass and rolling ressistance.
Put DH tires on a 9kg bike and it will feel worse than a 16kg bike with XC tires.
And the analogy for the 500lbs woman doesnt make sense as she doesnt lift at all. You´ll notice 5kg difference in bodyweight- trust me, especially if youre somewhat fit.
  • + 10
 @lkubica: having a lighter bike helps everyone climb better, pretty basic stuff here your trying to unexplain
  • + 2
 I'm shocked! You mean to tell me a bike with a steep ACTUAL seat tube angle climbs well? Who could have guessed? Truly stunning news. *sarcasm over*
Thank you @paulaston Paul Aston for measuring the actual angle, though you should clarify, I believe you measured the actual seat tube angle - not the seat angle...
  • + 5
 Paul Aston seems to be a Downhill smasher at heart and I find you need to take his reviews with a grain of salt in that mindset. He describes this bike the way many other reviewers describe a Ripmo, but I bet they are VERY different bikes. If you are the average weekend warrior and think you're going to buy this bike as a "great all-arounder" and you have some random city parks and state/federal forest trail systems I'm sure that you will be disappointed. If you ride large epic places and climb for an hour up fire roads for huge 2000ft descents, that might be different.
  • + 8
 @lkubica: Believe it or not, there's also geo differences between an XC bike and an Enduro rig. I get you're singling out purely the weight here, but there's a LOT more that makes a difference than just suspension and tires.
  • - 1
 @sherbet: I did not say anything about comparison of 170 29er with an XC machine. It is quite obvious that such comparison makes no sense. I used this 12kg example as a hyperbole. There are lot's of lighter bikes in the same class even below 15kg and this simply means nothing. Comparing enduro bikes by weight is plain pointless.
  • + 2
 @NotNamed: @lkubica: Uh huh. Sure. Go ride around on a Stinky, or an 8 Ball, or anything like that. Feel free to add carbon, Ardents, Ikons, whatever. Now go ride a Stumpy HT, an Epic, a Spark/Scale, Element 999 MSL, whatever. lol
  • + 3
 @lkubica: No, weight is most definitely a factor. I'd always prefer the lightest bike you can get away with not trashing.

Ps, you may not have mentioned XC specifically, but it's assumed given you replied to a thread where everyone is comparing this to an XC bike due to a comment Paul made.
  • + 3
 Today, seems like most of the 170 mm big rigs climb very well according to MTB reviews. Let's give a call to Alberto Contador, he's been wrong all the time. He should have ridden an enduro bike. To hell the Trek Madone
  • + 3
 @RoadRunner13: lol bye bye Madone, hello Madonna... Oh wait. lol
  • + 2
 @mtbikeaddict: You saw that one coming, didn't you
  • + 2
 @RoadRunner13: Eh, wasn't trying to make a reference, just laughing myself silly at the thought of a roadie on a bike like this, but I thought maybe it could somehow be a reference to someone, so I guess so? Big Grin
  • + 1
 How is the Stumpy Evo with boat anchor NX etc 4lbs lighter?
  • + 3
 @chyu: Haha, lighter than a stinky is a pretty broad spectrum. In fact, I think it includes every bike ever that wasn't a Kona Stinky.
  • + 3
 Looks like a welded pole instead of a machined one...
  • + 6
 My DH bike climbs faster than ALL XC bikes. When I throw it on my back and run up the hill. I could beat Nuno up a steep enough hill.
  • - 6
flag SintraFreeride (Mar 25, 2019 at 14:36) (Below Threshold)
 @RoadRunner13: XC bikes climb well because they are light not because they have good geometry. Take an XC race bike into the Alps and see how it struggles to find traction on the stupidly steep climbs because a) the seat angle so you have to stand up b) the skinny, micro knobs tires have no grip and c) short reach makes the bike wheelie. And that is just the climbing because once you are up the DH is going to be slow and crap because that XC whippet is a POS handling wise and fun wise. So yeah this bike DOES in fact ride quite well both up and down in spite of it's weight, wheelsize and amount of travel.
  • + 1
 @yupstate: That pinch of salt being: if you are weak and an average bike handler this is not a bike for you. However, if you think 15 kg bike is light and like to rip on the way down without worrying about flatting of breaking parts check this bike out!
  • - 7
flag SintraFreeride (Mar 25, 2019 at 14:43) (Below Threshold)
 @RoadRunner13: Ah yes the roadbike comparison! Roadbike geometry is utter crap with the limitations of the UCI. They are just super light and friction free bikes. Now add a juiced up roadie pro and oh my god it climbs like a beast who would have thought!!!
  • + 4
 @SintraFreeride: What adjustments would you suggest to a road bike's geometry to improve it?
  • + 2
 @SintraFreeride: You clearly know nothing about road cycling.
  • - 6
flag SintraFreeride (Mar 26, 2019 at 1:32) (Below Threshold)
 @RoadRunner13: Lol! You base that on what? My previous comment? Or do you work in the industry? Roadbike geometry has barely evolved in 100 years!
  • + 4
 youre not flying up any hills with a 37 pound bike....
  • + 2
 @lkubica: Wrong, just hop on an XC vs. DH bike and tell me weight doesn't make a difference! The bikes weight does matter, or is it that we have all this carbon and titanium parts for nothing? Your logic is not sound
  • - 5
flag SintraFreeride (Mar 26, 2019 at 1:37) (Below Threshold)
 @sherbet: For one thing, removing the UCI restrictions would allow brands to test out different geometry. For bikes that are made to be ridden at constant high speeds the geometry is excessively compact and nervous! I'd make the bikes longer in reach and chainstays with a slacker head angle. It also makes no sense that taller riders have to run slacker seat angles so as not to pass the wheelbase limit. This makes for front wheels that are very close to your leading foot. I suggest taking inspiration from road motorcycles. And before anyone complains about increased weight remember that there is a 6.5kg lower weight limit and you can easily make lighter "illegal" bikes.
  • + 2
 @SunsPSD: bike weights are smaller than the average human body so as a percentage of total weight, if a bike drops 2 pounds off of 30 thats an almost 10% reduction in total weight. Take a human now who weighs 180 losing 2 pounds is only about a 5% reduction. Thats why slight differences in weights on bikes can be clearly felt, because they are much lighter than a human body.
  • + 3
 @NotNamed: "Frame weight wont affect the uphill performance"

Really why not add some lead to your frame then? I don't think so!
  • + 2
 Might wanna mention that RAAW won’t ship to US or Canada due to safety regulations not passed yet. Too bad, nice rig
  • + 2
 @SintraFreeride: So I'll ask again, what geometric changes would you suggest to make the bikes better? There are a huge amount of non-uci legal road bikes that still conform to "normal" geometry. What suggestions are you getting at? Right now you're just posturing.
  • - 3
 @sherbet: If I had the money to have a custom built road frame my geo would be the following:
HA: 67º
STA: 76º
CS: 450mm
Reach: 500mm
WB: ~1200mm
I'd run a 50mm stem with drop bars, disc brakes a 50T chainring with a 10-42T mtbike cassette so I could run only a rear deraileur and a dropper post so as to enhance cornering performance on fast downhills.
  • + 1
 @SintraFreeride: I appreciate you sharing your opinions, but honestly, that's foul.
  • + 0
 @ryanbpoquette: The point is good, but 2 is nowhere near 5% of 180...
  • + 3
 @SintraFreeride: So you basically want to build a road bike (all roads were dirt) from like the early 1900s? Those early "road" bikes had slack headtube angles, long wheelbases, short stems. Trying to reinvent the road bike is about like trying to reinvent the wheel. It's been done, and there are plenty of outliers, but if you stray to far from the norm it'll probably suck. Ever ridden a tri bike, they're awful!
gizmodo.com/100-years-of-tour-de-france-bikes-map-the-evolution-of-709973821

Also curious to your view of BMX bike geometry?
  • - 3
 @georgiamtbiker: Oh I doubt my bike would sell seeing as roadies are super conservative, heck some of them are STILL against disc brakes... However, it would handle much better than any current roadbike hands down. Those early roadbikes had super slack seat angles (not efficient) and huge offset which isn't great either!
Have only ridden roadbikes and I love the low weight and lack of drag from the hubs. Handling is utter shit, sizing is terrible (compensation with long stem) and at the time I road with rim brakes which was scary compared to my Shimano Saint MTB.
BMX race in my opinion needs longer bikes, especially in reach and a slightly slacker headangle. For street and vert the geo is fine because you are looking for something super small and agile to throw around. I do, however, find it strange stronger tires aren't used instead of singleply tires with 100psi in them...
PS: Great link! Fascinating stuff!
  • + 1
 @SintraFreeride: Now you're just being arrogant.
  • - 1
 @sherbet: Agree to disagree.
  • + 1
 @SintraFreeride: You just flatout said thousands/millions of people don't know anything they're talking about and that they're just conservative. You're wrong, arrogant, and probably need to pull your head out of your ass.

As someone that rides a newschool fat tire road bike, your geometry makes no sense even for the far extremes of what "road" constitutes.
  • - 2
 @sherbet: lol. There are loads of things in society that are not optimized or where fashion/tradition takes precedent over function/performance. Shoes are a great example. I used to believe, naively, that grown ups always knew better then I grew up and started testing and questioning things.
It seems illogical that a bike built to ride fast on wide roads should have a wheelbase of around 1000mm and a near vertical head angle with short chainstays, The fact the taller riders are forced to ride bikes with slacker seat angles and longer stems so that the wheelbase does not grow very much compared to a shorter guys bike is just insane!
But hey if you enjoy your road bike more power to you. I like to have bikes that handle well instead of having to compensate and ride around terrible geometry.
  • + 2
 @SintraFreeride: There are several ways to question the status quo. One is to understand why things are the way they are and think of ways to lift those restrictions. Another is to fail to understand the status quo and make up something different in the vain hope of hitting on something useful. Guess which one is the path of the successful revolutionary.
  • + 2
 @SintraFreeride: You do realize that people have been experimenting with geometry for over a century, right? To be so stuck in your own opinion and to discount literally everything that has been learned to this point is beyond arrogant. Get your head out of your ass.

There are plenty of bikes out there that don't conform to norms, fashion, or to UCI regulations. Specialized made a "F-UCI" bike a few years ago, as an example. People are able to go nuts on geometry, but they haven't ended up with that geometry because it'd handled absolutely stupidly slowly and honestly take all the fun agility out of a road bike.

What you see as "terrible geometry" is stuff that's been experimented and toyed with for well over double your lifespan. People run that geo, frankly, because that's what is fun and that is what works best.

But hey, you clearly know better than everyone else, Mr. Pinkbike Commenter.
  • + 0
 @sherbet: I don't follow the "well everyone is doing it that way so it must be right premise" from my own experience it seems more could be done. I have done +60km/h on a BMX on road too but it isn't ideal geo for that either.
I can understand why you think my views are like that though. I've seen the change in geometry in MTBiking from the 90s XC hardtail (pretty roadlike) to the bikes of today and I truely believe the UCI restrictions has stifled the further evolution of the roadbike geo. Now within the restrictions of the UCI roadbikes have been taken to the max. We see that with aero, shifting, materials, etc.
But like I said if you like your current bike great, it doesn't work for me though and I'll wait until the UCI lifts the ban to see how things pan out or barring that I'll put some cash together and make my own.
  • + 1
 @SintraFreeride: For the third time, not all bikes conform to UCI regulations, in fact, most don't. Have you heard of Radavist? People don't build bikes like that because they're handle so slowly that it'd be garbage.

Keep the word "UCI" out of your posts. It's a buzzword, and completely irrelevant to what we're talking about.
  • + 48
 That top tube looks like an x-ray of my collarbone...
  • + 5
 It's the only part of that frame that I don't like. Actually, I hate it so much that I can't see myself buying this bike. But everything else is just spot on
  • + 1
 mine too
  • + 4
 @pakleni: thought so too, until I've seen her in the wildlife :-P the brushed raaw alloy is just beautifull
  • + 1
 From a structural standpoint it's not the greatest. Could have easily done that with a slightly bent tube but the weld is the failure point in that tube. That alone would have me stay away from this.
  • + 34
 "and they survived it all while other wheels from big players were falling apart by the day" machine gun magazine is not empty yet...
  • + 10
 MOAR SCHOTTS FYRED @ INVY
  • - 3
 I respect that. When I play GTA I have a hard time stopping clubbing a (virtual) person on the pavement even when the pool of blood is 10ft in diameter.
  • + 16
 @WAKIdesigns: dude...what is wrong with you?
  • + 4
 @WAKIdesigns: and the monies keep falling out of their body, club em if ya got em
  • + 3
 @WAKIdesigns: They prefer to be called hookers
  • + 1
 Funny comment that in the review. I'm sure I saw lots of bikes complete the ews race
  • + 2
 @underhawk: I don’t club hoes in GTA, what is wrong with you? Only elderly...
  • + 28
 "Threading the steerer tube seems like a faff, but once done it does away with those silly star-nuts for good."
Yeah, those silly star nuts that have worked perfectly well on nearly every mountain bike on the planet for the best part of two decades.
  • + 8
 Not when you knock them down 2” to add a chain tool and link holder.
  • + 8
 OK? But they're not ideal. Having to hammer something in that digs into the inside walls could be classed as a bodge at best. The azonic headlock, hopes head doctors and a few others have tried to remedy the problem, but usually its a compromise on weight or strength of grip, actually threading the steerer is a far better solution. The amount of hours I've spent swearing at star nuts trying to get them out is unreal and my next bike will have the one up system.
  • + 8
 There are already alternatives to star nuts - expanding wedges - have one for my carbon steerer, not had any issues with it for the last 8 years. After all it's only used to preload the bearings and the stem holds everything together
  • + 9
 And remember, this will void your fox fork warranty...
  • + 18
 @alnavasa: Pro tip: leave your steerer the length of the threads longer. Warranty issue? Chop the threads off and voila, no warranty issue. Yes you can only pull this trick once but most people are unlucky to have any warranty issue, nevermind 2 or more.
  • + 3
 and I have got rid of every star-F**KING-nut on every pair of forks I have owned in the last 2 decades and replaced it with a headlock.
  • + 1
 @inked-up-metalhead: Headlocks are the way forward. Plus they give you a little bit of added security.
  • + 6
 @fartymarty: pair of forks? just say every fork
  • + 3
 Star nuts are fkng cave man engineering, threaded steerers are the way
  • + 3
 @fartymarty: Where does one purchase one of these 'headlocks'?
  • + 4
 Just bc something works doesn’t mean it’s the best solution
  • + 3
 @inked-up-metalhead: threading an alloy steerer just seems sketchy to me. You're making the stem clamping area thinner and relying on some weakish threads to tension the headset. Wonder what fork mfgs say, do they give the ok or not on threading?
  • + 4
 @SnowshoeRider4Life: You're right. It is a fork, not a pair as there is only 1 of them.
  • + 1
 @dthomp325: again, leave it long so it sticks out the top of the stem, then there's no load on it. It's only the same as superlight carbon spacers, they're for compression, and if it's above the stem then so would that.
  • - 3
 @SnowshoeRider4Life: handlebars or handlebar, fork or forks, same same.
  • + 4
 @nojzilla: You do realise star nuts superseded threaded steerers?
  • + 2
 @Bob-Agg: internal or external...........?
  • + 1
 Bmx has been using threaded steerer tubes for a long while now and it's great.
  • + 1
 @fartymarty: **front forks
  • + 3
 @inked-up-metalhead: yep, but I already have the bike with the fox 36 that came cutted with it, also I don't like high steerer tubes since they look like they are going tu hurt in the event of a crush.
  • + 1
 Wait, top end MTB forks still use star nuts?? I assumed it was just the budget stuff that I end up with that had them haha. Odyssey BMX forks (and I assume most other good ones) have been threaded for ages. It's not often that the BMX world leads the way on tech!
  • + 26
 The Germans and their love for well built and überengineered aluminium bikes ???? . For alu fans it would be interesting (at least for us in Europe) if you also tested Alutech’s model Fanes 6.0, maybe against Liteville, Nicolai and Pole so we get an all alu shootout?
  • + 24
 "Great all-rounder"?

I think the bike looks awesome, but lets not kid ourselves, this is DH bike which you can pedal uphill.
  • + 20
 Which is pretty much a good definition of a great all-rounder
  • + 3
 @fitjoani: If you ask someone like Nino Schurter, you might get a very different definition.
  • + 17
 I' m riding the Raaw madonna since juin and totaly agree with Paul Aston I ve got 3 carbone frame before the RAAW and this one climb better than my pivot mach 6 or pivot firbird 27.5 due to the angle seat post and longer chain stay despite of the frame weight It looks incredible but test it and you will be very surprised The geometry is top and cinematic too I put the new fast fenix shox on it after the fox float X2 it s a little bit less poppy but the grip is fantastic possibility to ride without bag because of the tool, iner tube and bootle on the frame is a great advantage too compare to some enduro bikes
  • + 2
 @supreme09 I have one of those "tank" bikes.. at 15kg my canfield balance climbs no different than 13kg bike...wheels make a difference, not frame weight
  • + 15
 Great looking bike. A lot of thought into that frame. Wouldn't be too hard to build up a 33lb medium. Nice to see someone else making chainstay lengths to fit sizes. That should be a common design
  • + 11
 It's not hard at all. I have an XL that weighs 33.5lbs, with a coil shock. I'm running a few more carbon bits than the above bike, and an alu wheelset which is a bit lighter. EXO front & DD rear. With an air shock & some fancy bits, it sould be another couple of pounds lighter still.

It's my big bike though, and I want it to be tough, and last. You do notice the weight, but it climbs well for it's size Smile
  • + 13
 Can we take a moment to talk about the upcoming lower leverage ratio link? As a much bigger than average rider (pushing 120kg in kit) I've always looked for frames with lower leverage ratios as brands such as giant I would have to run more than max psi in the shock to get the right sag. Having this option is amazing, it would be good to see more manufacturers adopt similar set ups.
  • + 11
 PB tragedy Paul Aston has moved one. Probably one of the most legit riders who provides reviews in the industry. Also, having ridden in Finale, those trails are brutal on bikes, so I could easily see a setup like this being the best if you don’t like carrying your bike. Not a review for everyone but for people who climb to the top of fast, rough trails this makes perfect sense
  • + 1
 moved one? one what?
  • + 4
 Yes too sad. I liked his reviews, reflected my style of riding Big Grin .

Did he really move to Birmingham from Finale? Man that´s tough.
  • + 15
 What the holy hell is with the top tube junction?
  • + 29
 That's the best part of the bike.
  • + 14
 @Wesleybikes: That, and scary clowns pulling me into the sewers is what will keep me up at night.
  • + 0
 Yeah, I know!! That looks like an absolutely horrible place to have a junction! I dont mind the questionable aestetics of it, and I do love a low standover, but not if it means that the frame gets an obvious breaking point like that. I cant understand how that is structurally strong enough.
  • + 18
 @lubb1: do U even FEA bro
  • + 3
 @WAKIdesigns: No, Im just hammering away at my keyboard here. But keeping in mind the thorough, extremely in depth science of the huck to flat vids we enojoyed so much a while back, there tends to be some upwards and slightly backwards bending of the top tube. And that would put some kind of streaching motion of that weld in the top tube, which I dont think is ideal.

On the other hand, if the weld can handle the strain it might give some nice compliance in the frame.
  • + 0
 Its visually a shocker. A bent tube would look so much better. Apart from that the bike is really smart.
  • + 2
 @lubb1: it was a joke. I am also hammering on my keyboard, trying to send it to Valhalla.
  • - 6
flag plyawn (Mar 25, 2019 at 4:08) (Below Threshold)
 @lubb1: a bike frame never got weaker from adding another weld
  • + 0
 Apparently works well for a 160 lb rider. But damn, my large body mass carrying 2 liters of water, snacks, and some tools down through a rock garden? That crazy bending moment weld nightmare sure looks sketchy AF. Sorry, no way, straight drawn tube with a reinforcement gusset - (see Transition Sentinel alloy)
  • + 1
 @JWadd: Some fans here downvoting anyone who dares question the design... Anyhow, a FEA image of it under stress would be interesting, compared with a hydroformed or bent toptube. I bet they have sacrificed a lot of structural integrity just for that quirky tool pouch compartment. I would have chosen a hydroformed groove on the underside of the toptube, with a neat fixture for a tool pouch or spare tire.
  • + 9
 It is so easy to make a bike climb well. Just raise the position of the main pivot to slightly above the chainline like it was done here, or on the Orbea Rallon for example. Two of the relatively few bikes that focus on what matters rather than trying to minimize a little chain growth, that I have never seen anyone complain about with them.
  • + 9
 Yes, yes yes. Why don't other companies sacrifice the couple of grams to put chunky, reliable bearings in?
The tool slot is neat too.
  • + 5
 In the future, please show the non-drive side of the bike for the suspension cycle video. It is important to be able to view the rear brake calipers movement as the suspension moves thru its range. Great review otherwise, Thanks
  • + 1
 Just look at what the seatstay is doing
  • + 5
 Had a chance to ride with these guys in Finale and I’m considering buying, one, because the bikes were silent weapons and two, they are such a sound bunch of guys. Nice work lads!
  • + 5
 Dude is wearing a DH helmet in every picture related to this review. That tells me everything I need to know about this "all-around weapon".
  • + 5
 This is one of the few bikes that ticks all the boxes for me, 29er, tough as nails, decent climbing, great descending and most of all, it’s aluminium.
  • + 3
 would be nice if specialized would offer a frameset of the alloy stumpjumper evo. but as a complete its a joke.
  • + 2
 buy a Sentinel GX Aluminium!
  • + 3
 @RMSlayer50: in germany its only sold as a complete bike with crap parts for lot of loot
  • + 2
 @funkzander: Why is the stumpy evo a joke?
That’s what I ride currently. Geo feels great, I just feel like it runs out of travel pretty easy. Spec may be on the lower end, but it performs great. The grip fork is better than the 2018 f36 rc2 imo.
  • - 1
 @funkzander: Its specialized, why would they offer you a frameset when they can make money selling a bike with crappy spec for big $$?
  • + 1
 @Timmcg3: for me the complete bike is a joke for that price with that spec. fork and shock is ok but wheelset and group? no thank you for that price. give me a frame only.
  • + 4
 This is what I like about you Paul. You not only address the elephant in the room - you ride the elephant in the room. Great review.
  • + 5
 Ahh so this is the bike.. Okay, I prefer this bike than another mainstream bikes out there
  • + 3
 The Madonna was my number 2 choice behind the 77designz 'Prototype'. I still like the Madonna but I cannot report any 'bar's points to the 77designz 'Prototype' it's perfect.
  • - 1
 Apart from the carbon wheelset?
  • + 2
 @paulaston

Given the quite steep STA resulting in the ETT in a size L department for most of bikes out there, would you actually upsize if it were possible?

Regarding the saddle, how does it compare to Specialized Power or Selle SMP offerings?
  • + 4
 I get that weight is over analyzed, but given the choice of me throwing 7 bags of sugar in my backpack and riding uphill, i'd say feck right off!
  • + 19
 You mean - No thanks Turkish, I'm sweet enough.
  • + 0
 @Ozziefish: well done, sir.
  • + 1
 Weight is fine at all, honestly I found myself more comfy on a bike with some weight, 14,5Kg on DH tires is fine for trail bike.
Under 14Kg I don´t even believe the machine can take the abuse so then it somehow slow me down. Also with that weight I believe it goes much calmer when pointed thru rockgardens and roots.

What is not so good for me is once you find interesting frame talking about geometry, you are pushed to go 29" nowadays which sucks for me
  • + 2
 You mean tall people are forced to buy 29ers because there are no 27.5s that fit? Anyone able to confirm this?
  • + 2
 @BenPea: I mean I would love to see something a bit outstanding the rest (like this one) but on 27,5
  • + 1
 @bok-CZ: there's got to be some less mainstream 27.5s for giants no? I can't say I've looked though.
  • + 1
 @BenPea: Pole 29, Raaw 29, luckily Revel Rail 27,5, but continue new Strive etc... I am pretty standard height I would say at 6 feet, but with short legs and huge ape index, with my riding style 29" is not an option.
  • - 4
flag Twowheelsjunkie (Mar 25, 2019 at 5:55) (Below Threshold)
 Just another f***ing 29ers
  • + 2
 @bok-CZ: Take a look at the Starling Swoop
  • + 2
 @bok-CZ: geometron?
  • + 1
 @alexhyland: already in a shorter list yeah Smile
  • + 5
 Wow that thing is gorgeous. This decades Turner Burner.
  • + 3
 Always love your reviews @paulaston
It helps that I'm the same height and have the same trail preferences!
  • + 4
 I think thats gonna be my future bike.
  • + 3
 This bike v. the Alloy YT Capra 29 might be a better comparison than against the Canyon.
  • + 2
 My 2.5k€ alloy Capra 29 XXL is roughly about the same size. Everything stock except 170mm F/R and tubeless. Worked really well in Finale - and the frame is about 500gr lighter.
The BB is slightly higher in the "low" position, but I smash into rocks and roots regularly on climbs with 175mm cranks.
The suspension seems to be a bit different, though - looking at those graphs. The Capra needs to be pushed with force to activate the suspension, but on the occasional huck to flat uses 90% of travel.
  • + 3
 Good job on the suspension performance graphs. We should get that from every manufacturer when a bike is reviewed.
  • + 2
 Tiny brand with minimal rider support---of course PA loved it. Would love to hear another reviewer's thoughts, the ride does look to have potential.
  • + 4
 Climbs like an ok bike, weighs like a dh bike
  • + 0
 this is the nice looking bike, I was surprised that at the review was mentioning that bike performs 1 season (even less) without any issue. who the F expect any issues with the bike for the $7k ????

the bike should perform for an entire season (manufacture service interval) without issues - that service, then again;
  • + 3
 "The hidden pouch uses a press-stud fixing and is useful for storing small bags of cocaine"
  • + 3
 This annoys me : How do you pronouce the name ?
Like raw but longer ?
Or more like car but longer ?
  • + 2
 Finally a bike that considers heavier riders, at over 100kg Its a pain (almost impossible) to run a coil on a lot of enduro bikes
  • + 1
 Well, the main complaint is people saying that it's too heavy to be a good climber compared to an XC bike....

Within this context, it makes complete sense. Would you compare an XC bike with a 4.5kg road bike?
  • + 4
 Nice single-crown downhill bike.
  • - 1
 M, L and XL? So you mean small, medium and large. Since medium literally means the middle of two things - it can't be the smallest. Unless they are comparing it to another bike in their offering, but still. Needed something to complain about on a Monday morning.
  • + 3
 Always take the cocaine out of your bike frame before weighing it.
  • - 1
 Interesting. The seatstay/brakelink doesn't rotate at all during compression. I wondered how this would stand up to Pauls usual "it's got active braking so it won't slow down" claim. I see the marketing guys cleverly got round that by telling him it wouldn't be a problem....
  • + 3
 That bike is a thing of beauty. I love it!
  • + 3
 The industry needs more top tube tampon storage
  • + 1
 " Now, two complete bikes are also available" continues to review full custom bike mentioning how good all the components that aren't stock are... C'mon guys!
  • + 2
 Suddenly I don't feel as disappointed in my 16kg (with pedals!), 170/180 travel ( and much cheaper) Spesh Enduro.
  • + 2
 They should have color option named True Blue.
  • + 2
 I would ride Madonna then. I would not ride Madonna now.
  • + 1
 Wanting, needing, waiting For Raaw Madonna to justify my ride Hoping, praying For Raaw Madonna to justify my ride
  • + 1
 Not sure what the storage unit is called, but I'd suggest:
Pipe pipe
hast stash
joint joint
crack cut
  • + 2
 Please ship to Canada soon!!
  • + 2
 Looks like a garden gate with suspension
  • + 2
 the hidden pouch is usefull for storing cocaine in it haha
  • + 3
 ...while climbing over the Andes :-P
  • + 2
 37 lbs and will fly up the hill? Balls will it.
  • + 2
 That seattube angle looks a whole lot steeper than 74.
  • + 2
 There are now ebikes that weigh less than this. There, I said it.
  • + 1
 @fiatpolski: They shouldn't?
  • + 1
 with reach getting longer I wish either I can grow taller or both of my hands expanded like Mr. Fantastic
  • + 1
 16.79kg without pedals? Sorry did someone leave a full water bottle and tube strapped to the frame or what?
  • + 0
 I'm trying to be less critical of Mr. Aston than I have been in the past but..... This just reeks of his biased love for weird shit.
  • + 16
 There's a million other sites doing generic reviews of mass produced bikes if you'd like to read those. Kind of gets boring reading about the same bikes being reviewed and coming to the same conclusion. At least appreciate this guy is/was a racer and has a good feel for fast bikes. I think MBR or MBUK may suit you better.
  • - 6
flag mtbikeaddict (Mar 25, 2019 at 8:11) (Below Threshold)
 same thought here. The whole review... Long, low, slack, huge travel, coil, boutique frame, big companies are bad, etc... Although to his credit he did mention the BB is a tad low.
  • + 5
 More like love for shit that works and last a long time, I guess that´s not something you are interested in?
  • - 2
 @Mondbiker: " More like love for s**t" Hey, you said it not me Razz Wink
  • + 1
 Head tube angle of the bike in the photo looks more like 62 than 64 IYAM
  • + 1
 Not at all, if you check geometron g16 come back and tell me this looks as slack, it´s not even close.
  • + 1
 Nobby Nic in the rear Eek ???
  • - 2
 That’s a problem?

I’d be far more upset with the usage of an e-bike tyre on the front.

NN is fine front or rear, great trail tyre.
  • + 2
 @Ktron: Oh I ride NN too, on my everyday MTB here in the woods.
But I would never think that Paul Aston would use it in Finale Ligure!
  • + 1
 ..
  • + 3
 No,

Seems many here ( nothing unusual for Pinkbike) hammer away at keyboards before even bothering and to read the specification list.

And how about you keyboard engineers? The frame would comply at least with ISO 4210 or can’t be listed for sale.

Sometimes the mediocrity of thought and comments here beggars belief
  • + 0
 the hold my beer of bikes. pedals like a chump and jumps like a wagon shut up and take my money!!!
  • + 1
 lmao !
  • + 1
 Bla bla bla...... This bike is sexy beast anyway
  • + 1
 Gordon Ramsay wouldn't like it.
  • + 0
 "We added five welds and more tube notches for dependability. It's worth the few extra pounds."
- No Engineer Ever
  • + 0
 26 is looking better and better!
  • + 0
 Can be shipped worldwide except USA and Canada? Why the F not?
  • + 1
 Why
  • + 0
 Literally no reason for a f*cking aluminum frame to be 3000$
  • + 3
 cave dwelling dwarves listening to WAGNER weld these beasts by hand. of course it's expensive. and mostly worth it...
  • + 3
 I'm calling bullshit.

If the FEA shows a better frame than the carbon version then yes, use the aluminum.

Notice at all how carbon frames got chunkier after 2017?

It's because the FEA on those frames pointed out that their aluminum counterparts were stronger and stiffer.

Literally no reason for anyone to be ignorant ever.
  • - 1
 They don't even ship to the USA or Canada. Why review such forbidden fruit?
  • - 2
 Man that is chunky
  • - 2
 37 pounds
  • - 2
 I've ridden a few Madonna's in my time but none this Fugly
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