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Field Trip: Canyon's $1,200 Stoic Is All You Need to Have Fun

Apr 19, 2021 at 15:58
by Sarah Moore  


(AKA Stoic 2 in other markets)

All you need to have fun

Words by Sarah Moore, Photography by Tom Richards

The first bike in our Field Trip value bike review series is the Canyon Stoic 3, a 29er hardtail with a 140mm fork that'll cost you $1,200 USD to get your hands on. The German mail-order brand describes as being a "phenomenal trail bike with no added squishy bits.’’

At this pricepoint, you won't find a dropper post, but you will find an SR Suntour XCR 34 fork with 140mm of travel with a lockout lever and adjustable rebound, internal routing for both the dropper post and rear shift lines, Shimano’s Deore 10-speed drivetrain with an 11-42 cassette, and Schwalbe tires mounted to 30mm wide Alex rims.

Canyon Stoic 3 Details

Fork travel: 140mm
Wheel size: 29"
Frame construction: Aluminum
Head angle: 65-degrees
Chainstay length: 428mm
Reach: 455mm (medium)
Sizes: 2XS - XL
Weight: 32.2 lbs / 14.6 kg
Price: $1,199 USD
More info: www.canyon.com
As for numbers, the Stoic comes with a 65-degree head tube angle and and 75-degree seat tube angle. There are slacker hardtails and steeper hardtails, but Canyon wanted this to be a good all-rounder. Reach numbers start as low as 380mm for the double-extra-small size and top out at 505mm for the extra-large. Our medium test bike sits at 455mm, and that reach is paired with a 428mm rear end, which is the same as the rear end on the large and extra-large sizes. The three smallest sizes are on 27.5” wheels and the chainstays on those sit at a stubby 418mm. One last thing: the seat tube lengths on all of them are short, with the medium sitting at 430mm.




The first half of our test lap on the Sunshine Coast was a rooty, slick singletrack climb that then transitioned into a wider, smoother gravel section. How did the Canyon Stoic do on the climbs? Well, it's no secret that hardtails are pretty darn efficient on the climbs. That being said, the Stoic doesn't feel like a cross-country race bike just because it's a hardtail. Canyon hits a good middle ground with the geometry, which means that while it isn't the snappiest of climbers, it will still get you to the top of the mountain with energy left in the tank for the descent.

There are a couple of things you could change if your goal was to improve the Stoic's climbing prowess. The meaty tires definitely don't make the Stoic a fast rolling bike. Mike Levy may even have likened the feeling of riding them uphill to "rolling through molasses." If your local trails are hard packed and dry, you might want to ditch the grippy Magic Mary up front for something a bit quicker. The other thing that holds the Stoic back on the descents is the 11-42 tooth cassette that it comes with. It's a bit of a narrow range for our liking and you'll likely want to factor in the cost of a new cassette to the price of the bike if you have steep climbs where you live, especially if you're a newer rider.




Was I just moaning about slow-rolling tires? On the descents, especially on the wet trails we encountered on the Sunshine Coast, having wide, grippy rubber on a hardtail is essential for maximum fun. They really help with confidence and it's a blast to corner on the Stoic and to pump through rolling terrain, essential skills for any new rider. Smooth trails are really where the Stoic shines and it was a really fun bike to carve through the trees on our test lap.

The fork may not be as smooth and active as more expensive forks out there, but it actually works really well. However, when things get fast and rough, the Stoic can feel a bit nervous when the impacts are coming fast and hard, killer tires or not. There's also not a dropper post, which is definitely something you'll want to change when possible in order to make the descents and rolling terrain more enjoyable. It's no easy task being the product manager on an $1,199 USD bike, and at that price point it's easy to see why a dropper post didn't make the spec list.

It’d be easy to complain about the the narrow range of gearing, lack of a dropper, and the fact that the Stoic doesn’t use a raked-out head angle that would let it feel more at home in the rough or rowdy stuff… But that’s not what the Stoic is all about. Yeah, there’s room for upgrading, but what did you expect? It’s meant to be a little fun machine that gets you out there, and that’s what it’ll do. There are things to upgrade, but you can do that when you discover how much fun this sport is and keep wanting to do it.

The entire bike probably costs less than what Mike Levy spends at Tim Hortons in a month, but it’s way healthier and a whole lot more fun. Canyon bills it as a bike that can go for a trail ride, head to the jumps, or spend an afternoon at the pumptrack. I’d agree that it’s capable of all that, in moderation.



+ Shines on smooth trails
+ Great price point
+ Geometry hits a good middle ground


- Not ideal on rougher descents
- No dropper post
- Limited gearing

Note: The model is called the Stoic 2 in all markets outside the USA. Canyon released it as the Stoic 3 in America, however, in a week’s time Canyon USA will also adopt the “Stoic 2”, so that the names are the same in all markets.

The 2021 Pinkbike Field Test was made possible with support from Toyota.

Video: Jason Lucas, Max Barron
Editing: Devan Francis

Author Info:
sarahmoore avatar

Member since Mar 30, 2011
1,404 articles

  • 196 4
 For the price of a new fork, you could get a friend or spouse into riding.
  • 569 14
 I’ll take the new fork
  • 111 5
 @TannerValhouli: yea me too, people want to talk, forks want to lap
  • 41 1
 I'm just curious if there's a frame only version. I'd like to build it proper.
  • 1 0
 For sure. Love it.
  • 11 0
 Just don't tell the friend that. It's best they become addicted to mtb before they know just how much high end stuff costs.
  • 22 6
 For the price of a new fork you could probably get a new spouse.
  • 18 71
flag eugenux (Apr 20, 2021 at 10:41) (Below Threshold)

true to that; a 45 year old guy from holland that I know got himself a wife from a small group of poor fisherman islands in the Philipines; her father was the head in the islands; he told me that the only TV in those islands was on the bigger one, at the drinking tavern. That was around 10-11 years ago. Now, she's living with him near Rotterdam and she made him a son. He couldn't be a happier man, with his still very-very young wife and his small son. Big Grin
  • 47 1
 @eugenux: Ew. So much ew.
  • 22 42
flag eugenux (Apr 20, 2021 at 11:22) (Below Threshold)
 @cgreaseman: I'm not the guy in the story; this is not one of those situations where "a friend" has some problems that needs to be sorted out and asks for advice.

but the situation is what it is, he is married with her and their are living happily. You should check this out as this is relatively known facts around northern EU states...danes and sweeds, occasionally take young south east Asian wifes and bring them back to EU with them.

and please, don't be hypocrites and tell me that if you are single man, at around 40-45, you wouldn't *$&# a young woman, regardless of her race and place of birth.

as for my comment, I was just pointing out that, as the joke got around "buying a new spouse".. on this wide world, stranger things could happen, even though you N americans might not be used to them.
take it as a joke... I don't remember if he paid something to her father or not but, then again, that might be a local tradition or a common practice in those parts and we simply don't know about it.
I, for surely, don't know as the closest I've been to a philipenese girl(woman!), was in a bar in HK, 5 years ago. No buying or exchanging for forks happened! Big Grin
  • 29 9
 @eugenux: So... you're surprised that a story/joke about a white person buying a brown person wasn't well received...
  • 16 3
 Maybe someone can add a story about a brown person buying a white person just to add some balance? This world needs more balance...
  • 42 5
 @kcy4130: hang on, the Canadian gets upvoted for joking about the practices the Romanian has seen in reality and then relates to us (ok, he's not using the most tactful language), for which he gets crushed? This is a racism salad and you're picking out the olives.
  • 37 5
 @kcy4130: nope, I'm surprised that ppl tend to not accept or believe that in some other parts of this world, there are other ppl with different habits or with different way of living. Probaby, from their pov, their way is normal...and maybe our way looks strange; but, then again, Idk, I did ask no small island philipinese guy or gal about their opinions on their life and their habits vs their opinion on the western society.

one thing though, and I know this from many suppliers with which zi interact in those parts of the world..., most of the poor girls going to HK, Macau or other coastal big cities in that area, fleeing from their native islands with the hope for a better life, became involved in million/billion $$$ sex trafficing of criminal syndicates.

No amount of downvotes will change that and what will also not change the current status quo is being naive about these kind of situation all over the world and pretend, safely - from your inner "walls" of your conservative city, town, whatever, with mostly civilized local societies, that this kind of things do not happen. If you all truly belive this, you should start visiting countries that are not situated on the north american continent. All of you are in for some big surprises.
  • 21 3
 @BenPea: so sorry about that, I was rushing it a little. Next time I'll try to use better vocabulary and syntax. In my defense, I never prolerly studied english and it is my second foreign langguage in which I can, mostly, make myself understood. #braggingalittle
  • 12 1
 @eugenux: nah man, your English is great. When I say "not tactful" I mean direct and unafraid to offend.
  • 3 25
flag DoubleCrownAddict (Apr 20, 2021 at 12:54) (Below Threshold)
 Most new people entering into the sport want e bikes, so plan on spending more if you want them to be satisfied. Just sayin..
  • 10 3
 @BenPea: yeaah, I lack diplomacy but, then again, here in our country, for the most part, we speak like this. Then again, I'm lacking even for a romanian. As a side note, I have a friend who moved with work from RO to UK and she told me that it took her around 5-6 months to adapt to the style in which her UK and FR counterparts adress and spoke to eachother. Her manager later told her that in meetings, everyone was affraid to engage her as her direct way of speaking "frightened" a little most of her colleagues. She's all good now, managing to learn and adapt to the diplomatic way of communication within the company.
Here, in the balkans, even in billion $$$ companies you'll occasionally a CEO screaming at some sort of commercial director in some whatever senior management group meeting. Most of our diplomacy is faked... or it is from necesity; and, in my pov, this is hardly the place which requires such a polite way of adressing. Big Grin
  • 3 2
 @DoubleCrownAddict: which sport is that?
going dh on red and black diamonds.. yeah.. for those ppl the electrics are the targeted bikes.

for just riding a double flat track once every two weekends, most of the ppl will say you are a crazy man if you plan to spend on a bike more than 500 USD.
  • 15 1
 It's good to bear this in mind in "international" conversations. Eastern Europeans tend not to f*ck around with niceties, but then the same is true of a lot of Dutch people and probably countless others. I think I prefer to be stabbed in the front than the back, all told.
  • 7 1

If I bought a new fork right now, I might find myself shopping for a new spouse!
  • 2 0
 @kcy4130: TRUTH
  • 5 1
 @eugenux: @eugenux: How big if a shovel can you handle? User name = Eugenics?
  • 6 3
 @Staktup: haha, I'd wish to come up with that analogy when I landed the user name(and pe a smarta$$ prick about it) but, in reality, some gf of mine from (many)years ago keep calling me 'Eu-genius', then some friends found out about it and they also keept on and on with it.. so, being out of ideas for the UM on my.. I think youtube account.. just change it a little from Eugenius to Eugenux. Then youtu.be accounts fusioned with google account and the rest is history.
So.... sorry, no eugenics from me. if they would have been, I would have put something Khan Noonien Singh related. Big Grin
  • 1 0
 @woofer2609: Nah. It's more like a new fork, a couple new bikes, a new truck, half a house...
  • 2 0
 @eugenux: your bike must be a Trek
  • 1 0
 Frame only?! How much cheaper do you need it?! Haha @Lokirides:
  • 9 2
 @eugenux: you're good. I enjoyed watching you commit social media suicide and then dig yourself out of it. I think you did and Ben Pea helped you. I have met countless people from your region so I got your vibe right away. So much eeeew anyways Big Grin

Hear me all! I believe this man is not a racist! We have to keep looking!
  • 6 2
 @justwaki: Smile )))
true, without Ben Pea I probably couldn't have made it.

then again, these guys, who I'm sure most of them are pretty decent people, should start visiting places ouside their continent. If they think they have social and rasial injustice in N America, they're up for a big.. really big surprise when they'll see how the rest of the world looks like.
  • 3 2

The most racist thing here in my opinion is @kcy4130 assuming she’s brown :wtf:
  • 4 1
 @marko369: her name's Karen and she was stuck there after holidays with Chad who got away with her money and her Mom living in a trailer told her to go screw herself, she ain't buying her a ticket back and God surely punished her for smoking weed and sleeping with a man.

That's racist too but nobody cares Big Grin
  • 3 0
 @eugenux: As a guy who has crossed borders between many countries, I can attest that whenever I cross into poorer countries/ ones where the exchange rate favors me, I suddenly become vastly more attractive and interesting to women. Borders I have crossed in the past twenty years and felt this: US-Mexico, Poland-Germany, Germany-Czech Republic, Russia-Estonia, Russia-Finland, Russia-Ukraine, Hungary-Austria, Hungary-Serbia, Serbia-Bosnia. Same thing every time. The worst is in reverse, when you come back and you get hammered home to that you're nothing special.
There are tons of other factors besides money of course- the most salient ones being the ratio of living men to living women in a given age pool, and whether the women and men find each other attractive. There is far more lizardry and economics to sex and love than most people care to admit or understand.
  • 3 0
 @Insectoid: Yes. Sex capital exists. I have never experinced it personally (I'm Polish haha) but friends who travel told me stories from their journeys. Now I want ot use this to demonstrate something that Eugene wrote to me about in a PM. To me he hit the ball out of the stadium. When talking about issues like this we are exposed to Westernized, kind of fast-food version of fight for human rights. A synthesized reaction to anything that can be even remotely racist or sexist. Humans like to simplify things and so they did with various forms of anti-oppression.

US model of racism was simpler than European since it was easy to identify and opress the Blacks. Wars with bordering nations didn't really exist. 200 last years of American wars bleeks in comparison to what was going on in Europe. There is more complex form of racism and nationalism on our old continent since there is a bigger mix of cultures who interact with each other. Even Britain is kind of left out. It is them who went out with huge guns and colonized countries, they didn't really take part in brutal wars in the heart of Europe where there was no such thing as evident privilege. IT was a dog eat dog situation with all countries around Germany butchering each other by any closest occasion, then also having civil wars (like Italy). Now similar thing is going on in Middle East. I mean: one cannot apply same narrative of oppression and privilege everywhere no matter how tempting it is. Especially when those who sell this McDonalds form of higher morality, always use same characters as oppressors and as the oppressed. It's all a soap Operah now. And it is racist and it is sexist

Back to your example: what you wrote doesn't sound well inside McMorality. One could say that you are mildly demonstrating your misoginy by assuming different behavior of women. Because women would theoretically not be capable of objectifying a man, it is a man who objectifies women in all the McMorality bed times stories. Me now trying to give examples of men being exploited by women is also getting into dangerous waters. Yes it is not exactly equal, there are details to it. Women are attractive mainly by genetics and their sexual value drops with time whereas it is opposite to men. Their sexual attractivity depends mainly on the size of their wallet and the abaility to signal this size. Women bring up kids, men don't. Women are indeed more vulnerable in lamost every single aspect of lifeand at the same time their approach is more humanistic than one of males. This is also why they are less likely to sacrifice family for career which makes men more likely to be more suscessful at work.

But it's all complicated and all Triggasaures eating McMorality (like DCA and Mattlamb ekhem) refuse to deal with it. There - Sexist! Austrian privileged man willing to objectify women from poorer countries from a sexual angle!
  • 3 0
 @justwaki: sir... this is a Wendy’s
  • 106 1
 Levy: “Would be nice if it had a raked out head angle”
65° head angle: “Am I a joke to you?”
  • 21 0
 *should say Sarah, I just saw a pic of levy and assumed it was his words. Excellent write up @sarahmoore!
  • 28 3
 Full sus head angles stay nearly constant through the travel. Hardtail head angles get steeper when you use the travel. The logical conclusion is, that hardtails should have head angles that are at least as slack as full sus bikes, if not slacker.
  • 31 8
 @endoplasmicreticulum: or maybe hardtails should use shorter travel forks?
  • 7 1
 @TannerValhouli: slacker and shorter travel Wink
  • 6 6
 @TannerValhouli: Shortening the fork travel would make the head angle issue less obvious, but it doesnt fix your bike, since you now have little travel. You could just give the hardtail an extra 2 degrees, and then when at sag or in the mid travel it has a reasonable head angle thats comparable to a full sus of similar travel.
You can of cause worship the geo numbers of a bike when its standing still without a rider on it, or you can look at the actual geo numbers your bike will have on the trail with a rider on it. The fact of the matter is, that hardtails dynamic geometry changes drasticly compared to its static geo and therefore you shouldnt look at its static geo to determine how it rides, unless you weigh 0kg and only ride perfectly flat roads.
  • 17 1

That’s incorrect, slack head angles are not the end all be all in mountain biking. They make flat, rolling terrain and climbing a lot more work than they need to be.

This bike is meant to ride all of the trails, not just the ones that point straight down...

I really like that they made this bike more of an all rounder.
  • 4 0
 @endoplasmicreticulum: nah cuz with a long fork your angle will always change a ton without the rear sagging to somewhat conserve the head angle. A somewhat slack (64-65°) hardtail with a 120 fork is what I’d personally go for. Just need to use your arms a bit more.
  • 11 1
 @endoplasmicreticulum: like you mentioned hardtail goes through quite dramatic geometry changes. That is why using forks longer than 140 on hts makes no sense for anything else than hucking. Then if you run SAG like on a FS you run into this geo change issue, so you may want to add a few PSI to the air chamber which leaves you with no more than 20-30mm of Sag which changes your dynamic HA by 1-1.5 deg. Then it’s quite naive to believe that a 140 HT can be ridden as fast as 140 fully which means you don’t need this much stability. Which brings us to actual usable geo at best at adequate FS level. 140 ht shouldn’t have a slacker ha than a 140 fully. Equal or 1 deg steeper.

Having said this it’s all splitting hairs by woke folks who are into numerology and “how fast will I be if I buy this” horoscopes. 63-64HA ht will climb pretty much as well as one with 67HA given same seat angle/ reach/ cs and an actually skilled rider. If someone sits on their butt all the way around a tight switchback with a rock in the middle, then yeah it may be an issue. But if they move a bit... as they should...
  • 1 8
flag samdeatley FL (Apr 20, 2021 at 10:47) (Below Threshold)
 @TannerValhouli: Dumb.
  • 6 0
 @endoplasmicreticulum: people have often suggested we should look at the sagged numbers.
But it’s the very fact that the geometry is dynamic that we should actually look at the constant - the static figures and extrapolate from there imo.
Nobody runs exactly the same sag and no two riders weigh the same and/ or ride the same OR the same terrain.
Better to have a good base line and develop an idea of how that base (static) sag is going to play out for you than over complicate it with arbitrary ‘sagged’ figures that are not really relevant to you. Sagged figures at 30% are no different to a set of figures at 0% in that neither are a full representation of what you’re gonna get. But at least the static is same for everyone.
Granted the two together for a hardtail frame could be useful to see how things change over 30% travel but then you might say well let’s have 0,50 and 100% to really see....where does it end? And is it even relevant to how the thing rides anyway? Does it actually feel like the bike gets steeper? Maybe it does. But what does 2.5° feel like?
Basically - we should just keep it simple, stick with the static numbers. The rest has to come from actually riding and riding experience because no other set of figures is good for all riders/ styles/ terrains/ setups.
  • 5 0
 @justwaki: Couldn't agree more. I've built up several ti frames to play around with hard tail geometry. I personally think that very few people are going to enjoy (or "need") more than about 130mm of front travel, and a HTA slacker than 66 degrees. Yes, you can go faster over very rough terrain with a longer/slacker fork on a ht, but it is not an enjoyable experience. It hurts. Its not fun. A shorter travel fully with steeper geometry will go faster. The point of a hard tail (non-XC) is to be fun and highly maneuverable. Uber slack hard tails with long wheelbases start jumping/cornering like a slack full suspension, without the benefit of rear suspension.

With an aggro hard tail, you're trying to maximize fun, not speed. I feel for most enthusiast riders, the top of that bell curve would be a 120-130mm fork with a HTA around 66 degrees.

For a budget trail hard tail like this, maybe 140mm travel up front with similar geo numbers, since the tradeoff for a $1100 full suspension is something with (even more) trash parts hanging off it.
  • 4 1
 @hamncheez: I am not entirely sure about the artsy HT segment like Ti Hardtails... Hard Ti Tails... hard tittaes... never mind. Oh where was I, yes! Erm, a hardtail like this Canyon is meant to be functional and usable for most folks. When it comes to artisan segment, to me it’s like trying different flavors. I had my share of nimble bikes, now I want a cow. A cruiser with all the cool and latest numbers. Something that keeps on the fire road when the mushroom Gods arrive Smile I mean all those geos are workable. Our local DJers send it well sideways and upside down and all the way around on DH bikes if you tell them to.
  • 2 0
 @justwaki: "now I want a cow" so not a hard tail then
  • 1 1
 @hamncheez: mooshies... cows poop liberty caps grow.
  • 2 0
 @hamncheez: I think you'll find Waki (I'm pretty sure it is you now, despite the psychedelic experiences) is grappling with the fresh realisation that hardtails are called hard for a reason, but he's damned if he's going to acknowledge the upcoming pain.
  • 4 1
 @BenPea: We've discussed Wakis erectile dysfunction before, no need to bring it up again
  • 3 0
 @hamncheez: I like that he's upvoted both of us.
  • 4 2
 Youre all missunderstanding my comment. Can you maybe try to read what I write without making any other assumptions and without trying to read in between the lines? I never said that you should give hardtails 50 degree head angles, but instead a head angle that is equal to a full sus when AT SAG. That means you have to give the hardtail a slacker angle ON PAPER, because when riding it at sag it will get steeper by iteself. I also never said to put in a fork above 140mm in a hardtail. That doesnt make sense.
What you should have taken from my previous comment is, that hardtail head angles and full sus head angles from a geo chart arent 1:1 comparable, since a hardtail gets siginifcantly steeper and a full sus usually gets slightly slacker, becasue on a full sus you will usually ride more sag in the rear.
  • 77 0
 This video and article should have been a telegraph.
  • 5 7
 you missed your moment
  • 76 2
 From here on all articles will also be interpretive dance routines. Levy's taking time off to practice.
  • 2 0
 @brianpark: Ah, that's where he went.
  • 60 0
 I worked at a shop 12 years ago selling specialized rock hoppers for ~$900. If you adjust for inflation and then compare those rockhoppers with this bike, it’s astounding. This is an awesome bike for the price. Good geo, short seat tube, and short stem will allow you take this to your local dirt jump spot, pump track, and technical trails and shred them all. Upgrade parts as you progress and you can end up with a pretty fancy ride.
  • 13 0
 My first "real" bike was a ~2014 Rockhopper at $700. 3x8 drivetrain, coil 100mm fork, non-tubeless 29x2.1 tires, and no dropper. The Stoic is a much better value even at $1200. It would have taken me a lot of convincing, as a total noob, to drop the extra $500 though. I'd be willing to bet that I could sell that Rockhopper for $600 today, though...
  • 8 0
 I think you're on to something with that - that's decent value. However - this is direct to consumer. If you compare to brick-and-mortar distributed bikes, it's not as good a price as used to be the case for Canyon and YT and such. Case in point - this is $1,200; a base Honzo is $1,600, and the difference pays for a slightly higher end spec (wider range 11sp Deore drivetrain, dropper, more expensive fork, Shimano brakes, WTB rims, Shimano hubs). Haven't done a lot of research on other options, but looked at the Honzo for a friend who was interested in one, so that was top of mind at the moment plus it's the OG fun hardtail - I'd be shocked if Trek and Specialized didn't have a similar offering though.

I don't know if it's COVID-related supply chain issues, or currency rates, or the direct to consumer companies upping prices to balance things out and not be so comically back-ordered - but frankly, there's not much "savings" any more on this one, and I think if you look at other parts of the market, you'll find the same thing (friend of my son's got a Capra - and yes, it was a good deal, but no, it wasn't that much less than an LBS-bought bike would have been).
  • 2 0
 @g-42: definitely agree. My comment will probably ring true for a lot of the bikes in this whole test, especially the hardtails. Cool to see bikes have come so far.
  • 29 1
 Looks like a Fabio edition
  • 18 0
 Canyon ordered too much white and gold paint it seems , it's a freaking good looking hardtail joke aside
  • 27 1
 This is how I started, a hardtail and lot of Motivation. I am happy where it took me.
  • 5 0
 Started on a used dj with gears and a long seatpost and still have very fond memories of that bike.
  • 21 0
 In Europe it's the cheapest Stoic and it costs €899 (and called Stoic 2). Stoic 3 comes with better specs (Recon Silver RL, dropper, SX 12s, haha, he called SX better) and costs €1199. So this bike way better deal in Europe, than in US (looking at you Fox 34 from today's news, with ridiculous pricing in Europe).
  • 3 0
 Yeah they are cheaper but my guess is thats due to Canyon being located in Europe. All things considered the differences in cost are pretty minimal 900 euro comes out to about 1100 USD to $100 difference which in today's times is probably the shipping costs. Better deal, yes....way better, depends on if $100 is way better.
  • 15 4
 I’m sorry did I just read SX 12 speed and the word “better” in the same sentence? I’d take shimano tourney over SX eagle.
  • 18 0
 Haha! I'd take Deore 10sp over SX 12sp any day of the week. 10sp cassettes can be bought with 11-46T ranges so it isn't all that much different than Eagle anyways. I rode 10sp Deore for over a year before upgrading to 11sp XT and it was perfect.
  • 4 0
 @schu2470: I literally went from the 12Sp SX/NX combo that came with my bike back to the 11Sp Shimano I'd run on my previous bike. Brand new, SX is OK; a couple weeks in, it turns to Swiss cheese, requiring constant adjustments.
  • 5 0
 @schu2470: Better yet,the Microshift Advent X comes in 11-48 and weights just 430gr, for about 50€.
Anyway,at this price I would go for the Giant Fathom 2,with 12 speed Deore,a dropper,and even better looks.
  • 25 7
 No dropper post? I bet they could shave another few hundred bucks if they didn't include wheels either
  • 2 1
 it would also make it heavier than most enduro rigs!
  • 5 3
 @Richt2000: Exactly. Great looking bike and I like the geo for a hardtail. However, my 150mm bike with dropper is almost 4 lbs/1.8 kgs lighter
  • 7 1
 @Richt2000: 33-ish lbs/15 kg is heavier than most enduro rigs? You must be around some of those €7,000 enduro rigs. That's pretty normal in my experience.
  • 5 1
 @ryd-or-die: 33lbs for a trail hardtail is a few pounds heavier than ideal at this price.
  • 3 1
 My carbon enduro rig is 15.5kg, so I don't know where did you take the "heavier than most enduro rigs"...
  • 2 1
 @Noah353: not with proper tires and wheels and not a carbon component in sight.
  • 3 0
 Yeah for over $1k on a direct to consumer mtb, just raise the cost a bit and add a dropper. That's fundamental these days. Seems odd to skip it when everyone will just need to buy one anyway.
  • 1 0
 @Richt2000: my hardtail is 32lb (about 38lb with the KRS seat and about 70lb with the small child sitting on it!!) but then I haven’t had the time or money to find lighter wheels, cranks, etc. It still rides pretty nice. Calibre Line 29 £899 new, dropper, RS air fork, wider gear range (11sp NX) and chunky 2.6 WTB tyres as standard. Similar/Decent geo as well. Great fun on trail centres and single track, yet can still do bigger stuff as well. Also sold in bricks and mortar shops as opposed to direct to consumer.

Decent geometry doesn’t cost much.
  • 18 2
 I would like to hear more references to compliance when talking about alu hardtails. Was the frame more on the stiff side or did it soak up some of the feedback from the trail?
  • 30 2
 Likely unpopular opinion here, but I don't think frame compliance on hardtails is nowhere near as relevant as it was in the past. This was a thing back in the days of skinny road bikes with tyres at 120psi and more recently in the pre-EN testing MTB days.
These trail/AM/Enduro hardtails need to be so stout that most of the compliance will come from wheels and tyres
  • 16 2
 @Arierep: You're spot on. If you have 29 x 2.5 tires at 20 psi, I doubt there's much difference between steel, aluminum and carbon.
  • 5 1
 @AndrewFleming: how the hell do you run 20 psi on 2.5’s, let alone a hardtail with 2.5’s.
  • 51 2
 @TheSlayer99: Easy. You inflate your 2.5 tires to 20 psi.
  • 7 0
 @TheSlayer99: are you saying that's low or high?
  • 3 2
 I would also like to hear more about frame compliance. Even though most modern frames are pretty stout, frame compliance can still vary widely. Compliance can really make a difference on long rides.
  • 2 0
 @Noah353: That's on the low end for me since I weigh 180 lbs. But my teenage sons are both on hardtails with 2.6 tires and I set them at 15 psi without any issues.
  • 1 0
 @TheSlayer99: I weigh 190 and run 23 in 2.3’s on a hardtail. We don’t have many burly rock gardens with high speed runins around here, so that may be the difference.

So doesn’t seem unreasonable unless you’re under biking on stuff a hardtail isn’t meant for. Or you’re heavy.
  • 3 0
 @TheSlayer99: I'm 230# and run 22# in 2.4" tires. Helps that I live in the loamy PNW - when visiting Moab recently, I went up to 25#.
  • 1 1
 @Blackhat: I’m 190 and running 27 and 29 in dh casing tires with cush core on enduro bikes and I still obliterate rims every now and then at those pressures. I live in New England and if I run any less I just ding rims on every single rock I touch.
  • 3 0
 @TheSlayer99: I don't know what to say, man. I'm from CT originally and when I travel back to ride New England trails with old friends, I'm not seeing dh casing tires with inserts on their bikes and they are running pressures in the mid-20s. At least this is for day-to-day trail riding as compared to riding lifts or shuttles.
  • 13 1
 Compliance and stiffness in wheels? Definitely. Tires? 100%. Bars? Maybe. Grips? Yes. Frame? Well... I'm sure some people can feel the difference. I certainly can't.

Or at least I can't parse the difference through a million other factors stacked up on each other. Any time I ride similar-enough bikes I legitimately couldn't make a confident statement about frame compliance.
  • 1 0
 @AndrewFleming: pretty much everyone I know runs pretty similar setups to me for all around riding. I’m always surprised when I see people at my local spots who don’t have dh casings and inserts.
  • 1 0
 Yeah, I think mentioning stiffness/compliance is pretty important. A compliant frame is good for lighter riders or bigger riders that are more interested in comfort on long rides than in hucking. Stiffness or lack of isn't inherently good/bad, depends on the rider and how/what they ride. For a direct to consumer brand, it's not like one can demo it.
  • 4 0
 @TheSlayer99: Handle checks out.

That’s pretty in line with DH pressures that I’ve heard. Meanwhile Nino runs 15 or 16 on 2.5’s. On a non-dh course it pays to choose a line that avoids the rock since its like hitting your brakes. And when you do “touch” a rock it’s at a very different energy level.
  • 4 0
 @brianpark: Feeling flex is easy. Determining if the flex is coming from the frame or the rear wheel (or the fork for the front) without swapping to stiffer wheels is pretty difficult, maybe impossible I don't know. But, that's besides the point for for these field tests, indicating if a bike, as a whole, is on the flexier side or the stouter side is valuable information. Levy hints at it, when he says the stoic is better for less steep/rough trails than the growler, but doesn't specify that it's just due to geo or more than geo.
  • 1 0
 @brianpark: those are all fair points, parts likely make a much bigger difference than frames. But i however am a big believer that steel delivers less trail feedback than alu or carbon. Anyhow it would be great to hear a reference to general compliance as one of the categories of comparison with hardtails
  • 3 0
 @qualms23: and do you believe in that based on actual experience or based on marketing and lousy journalism?

Regarding flex, sure, noticing flex on a bike is easy, I agree. On certain conditions I can even realise I have loose spokes on the rear wheel just from the bike's feel. Thing is, I'd be willing to bet that, on a hardtail, assuming it is stout enough to pass current requirements, people wouldn't notice different frame stiffness
  • 1 0
 @Arierep I own a european made steel hardtail (reynolds tubing) Before that I had ridden alu hardtails and always found 'enduro' riding comparable to suffering after a few minutes of a big descent. Nowadays i regulary ride blacks aggressivley at full pace and i dont suffer at all. That bike has no limits. Sadly though that means my fancy modern full suspension bike gets left at home 9 times out of 10 because its just not as fun

Is the flex of steel just marketing hype? I dont know. Is my steel hardtail extremely compliant? Yes.. i also believe the people that made it seriousoy know how to build a bike
  • 1 0
 @qualms23: exactly the same setup between both of them?
What frame, by the way?
I dunno why, but have this stupid urge to sell the FS frame and build a Moxie
  • 1 0
 @arierep No other bike i have ridden sinks into a corner when pushed hard and then springs back out the other side with such a direct sense of feedback. For me that sensation was always coming from the frame.. its like that moment the fork has compressed, the tyres are at full bite and your body is firm holding position, then theres is an extra little spongy layer between you and the hard packed dirt, you push into it then it bounces you back in the other direction with a little speed bost.. what else would that be?
  • 1 0
 @Arierep: its a stanton switch9er. Same tyres, same tyre insert on the rear, same fork but with a lesser damper on the hardtail and less travel, same bars

Different grips, pedals and wheels/wheel sizes

I think the average rider is more satisfied riding a less capable bike on the edge, than riding a highly capable superbike far from its limit
  • 16 0
 When did 11-42 become difficult to ride uphill. It wasn’t that long ago that the 42 tooth cassette was deemed to be a game changer after we’d all been (apparently) walking uphill with our 11-36 cassettes.
  • 5 0
 Yeah, and for a "beginner" bike the complaint shouldn't be about range but rather that the front chainring is too big if Levy is having trouble.
  • 2 0
 I run11-42 with a 34T chainring on both of my bikes (a full squish and a HT) by choice. Still seems fine by me. I specifically switched from the 11-48 that the full squish came with. The jump in tooth count on the Shimano stuff in the shorter gears in particular is too big for my taste.
  • 3 0
 A 42 rear cog is plenty easy with an appropriately sized front ring.
The ratio of this cassette is limited, but where the ratio starts and finishes is dictated by the front chainring. Size accordingly, with no drawbacks as there is no rear suspension.
What I really don't get is the new bikes with a 51 or 52 rear cog and a 28 or 30t front ring. surely it's easier to get off and walk at that point??
  • 1 0
 I'm running 11-42 on both my bikes. If you need a bigger range you need to do more squats.
  • 15 0
 Those XCR forks have space for foam rings in the lowers, but don't ship with them. Buy some off Suntour's website, slap 10ish ml of oil in the lower legs, and the performance improves immensely
  • 3 0
 Good to know!
  • 10 0
 Seems kinda dumb to get a reputation for crappy fork feel because you saved $.08 by not having foam oil rings.
  • 3 0
 Can confirm this to be true. I've ridden a XCR34 fork on my training bike for 6 moths. Adding the foam rings and giving the fork a good service works wonders.
  • 4 0
 @woofer2609: Apparently Marzocchi does the same thing with the Z2. Maybe it's a supply issue?
  • 2 0
 @silverstanktions: Suntour has been doing it since forever afaik. Anything below the Raidon doesn't ship with foam rings, or have oil in the lowers. I believe most of if not all of their forks aren't oil lubricated actually, which is perplexing to me why you'd bother with foam rings and not the oil bath, but who knows.

That's unfortunate if Marzocchi is doing something similar, seems like Suntour at least tries to act like it's a feature that makes the fork easier to service or something
  • 12 1
 I like the idea of this bike a lot - it's a really good starting platform for an enthusiastic beginner. I had 11-42 gears on my Fuse when I got into riding and yeah, uphills did kinda suck but it was a great learning experience and got me into reasonably good shape after 1500 miles or so. I learned a lot about uphill line choice with that setup. The resin only discs are unfortunate but probably cheap-ish to replace when the pads are toast. Props to Canyon for putting an air fork on it with 140mm of travel. It looks stout enough that it won't snap and air springs give it some room to play around with for a newbie. The lack of a dropper is understandable but still kinda sucks. A QR clamp would be a good compromise between having a dropper and not, just so you don't have to get the multi-tool out at the top.
  • 18 0
 The non QR clamp is a bit of a head scratcher. If you aren't going to spec a dropper at least make it easy to drop the post.
  • 9 0
 Swap to the smallest chainring possible, probably a 28t though I'm not sure what those "Prowheel" cranks are compatible with. And then add a $150-200 takeoff or budget dropper. For under $1500 all in, you'd have a very capable and fun trail bike.
  • 5 0
 That derailleur should work just fine with an 11-46T cassette. Run that with a 30T chainring, and you've got A LOT of climbing reserve while still having enough top end for a normal recreational rider.
  • 5 0
 Agreed. There's nothing wrong with an 11-42 cassette. I run one with a 28 tooth oval and have no complaints.
  • 3 0
 @g-42: true, but a chainring is cheap.
  • 8 0
 Canyon really screwed over levy with the price rise. I think I heard him mention $1100 about 20 times in the video
  • 7 0
 I will choose big meety tires over less rolling resistance all day... The real fun is when you point the bike down anyways...
  • 9 0
 Get a smaller front chainring and the gearing will be better.
  • 8 0
 yup. put a 28T on my GF bike with a 11-42T , way better for uphill and let's be honest , a beginner will never get to spinning on a descent even with a 28/11t ratio
  • 4 0
 Totally spot on ! When the article says that the cassette range is limiting climbing ability, that's not exactly true. It's actually the versatility that is impacted. Choose a smaller chainring and voilà, you've got your climbing ability. The cost for it is a smaller top end ratio. Though IMHO the importance of the high side of the cassette is often overrated.
  • 6 0
 The fact this bike doesn't come with a 11-46t cassette blows my mind. However, def of Stoic: "A person who can endure pain or hardship without showing their feelings or complaining."
  • 6 0
 If range is a problem it would be nice to know how many teeth are in the crank. No info on canyon site or pb. It makes more sens to change chain ring instead of a cassete.
  • 5 0
 it's a 32 or 30 for sure , put a 28T on this bad boy and it's gonna be perfect
  • 2 0
 @Elgaucher: I was heading that direction to make the same point but you beat me to it Wink
  • 7 0
 It's already unavailable on Canyon's website.
  • 1 0
  • 2 0
 So if, as per your recommendation, you factor in a wider range cassette then you probably need to also upgrade the derailleur because the GS that's on there won't work if the largest cog on the cassette is 48 or larger. So that's about $400 in upgrades including the dropper and then you've got a $1600 bike with a pretty average Suntour fork.
  • 1 0
 I went too canyons Website and they said they put on a 11 speed for this model bike. They were talking in this video about a a 10 speed.
Another point on the same subject, How do you all feel About 11-42 tooth 10 speeds? you think they are obsolete? You See I am a rider with little funds and I grab all the budget good stuff upgrading my Cross countyr hardtail. I installed a 1x10 deore on it and I love it, climbs like a mountain goat. People say they suffer with these drive train set ups (10 speeds), I personnaly think they need to get on their bikes more and pump the lungs more. We used too shread 3x8 up and down trails in my area, one particular hill that is actually like an "enduro light" trail system. we are becoming trail princesses if you ask me...and these new electric mountain bikes....still don't know how I feel about that.
  • 1 0
 I think Canyon planned to put an 11 Speed on the bike but had to change at the last minute due to supply issues.
  • 5 0
 My dream affordable bike
  • 1 0
 Yeah those cheap brakes... I would like to have an option to buy bike without them... You pay for shitty brakes that will be laying under your bed because no one will buy them from you and than you have to buy new better set...
  • 1 0
 No, you take them off and sell immediately. Been there, done that and it works great Wink
  • 1 0
 I rode rigid frame mountain bikes for 25 years, and am happy to have full suspension now. I wouldn't want to go back to a hardtail, but these bikes look good and we need more affordable options. It's tough for many of us to scrape together $$$ for this (overpriced) sport.
  • 2 1
 Had a brick and mortor bait and switch me on a rocky mountain. Guy tried pushing sram SX as quality components. They convieniently just sold the listed model i came in for... but had an-alternative- on the floor ON SALE TODAY. Havent been back in years. Lube should have been free with the deal they were pushing...
  • 7 2
 Hardtails rule
  • 3 0
 Perfect winter bike, it is even white so you will not notice the snow on it...
  • 3 0
 Looks like a great entry level bike for the price, leaves a little room to upgrade in the part spec but also in the budget.
  • 2 0
 I don't usually like hardtails if they're not carbon XC race bikes, but this looks so damn good! I'd like for white frames and white forks to make a comeback.
  • 4 0
 Those trails look so fun!
  • 2 0
 Predictable limitations for the price. The Norco Fluid goes for the same price with components including a dropper. This isn't a deal.
  • 1 0
 Just for your info: According to Canyon the geo is stated with the fork 25% sagged. I wish the would do that for all hardtails as the angles and reach change significantly going from 0% to 25% sag.
  • 1 0
 Nice looking bike , would prefer in 27.5 tho. Regarding head angles on hardtails and geometry changing for me I reckon the sweet spot would be 130mm travel with a 64 head angle. Would like to try a mullet set up too
  • 1 1
 1200 doesnt get you much anymore does it? hardtail with suntour fork??
i know a long time ago, but i bought my anthem for a few hundred more and it was a lightweight full sus with fox all round

Has tech really moved on so much that this bike is better than that was? must have to warrant such a high price tag these days for a mediocre bike
  • 1 0
 And... you can`t get any right now, because of some sort of ransom demand in the middle east. Don`t know what the fuss is all about but, a friend told me it had something to do with a boat gone sideways .
  • 5 3
 I dont understand the tire spec on this one, clearly overbuilt. The Magic Mary 29 Super Trail weights 1250g.
  • 8 1
 No, that’s just a good tire for everything. It’s also consumable or you can sell it right away and get your money back out of it if you want an XC tire.
  • 8 0
 Everyday tire combo in Ireland and UK Wink
  • 5 0
 Heavier? Yes, but it is grippy as all get out and is an idea trail tire for mixed or occasionally sloppy conditions. I've even run one in hardpack conditions, just because I can't bear to throw XC tires on my full sus and I'm not racing.
  • 6 0
 @TyPierce: All my bikes with that combo in here... but even more heavy Super Gravity casings LOL
In Ireland, mountain biking is synonymous with starting in the sun and ending in the rain with mud everywhere Big Grin
  • 5 2
 Agreed. Tires are way too burley for the target market. Yes, they can be swapped out, but the target market probably won't do that. Huge side knobs and stiff casings don't do much for a rider that doesn't know how to lean a bike in the corners. It should come with EXO+ level tires, max, in a more rolly tread pattern. Maxxis Dissector?
  • 7 0
 @dcaf: I disagree - the target market is entry level, and there's no better way to learn how to properly corner than with tires that will properly hook up when lean your bike over. Just like the slack front end builds confidence descending. Getting a little more tired on the climbs is a small price to pay for not getting hurt and actually having a good time when you point it down the hill.
  • 3 2
 Agree totally. It would be better if this bike came with Nobby Nics.
  • 2 0
 Prices on release always confuse me. On sales season with 1200$ budget you can get much, much more. Or this bike for 700$
  • 5 0
 Sale season depends on the need to clear excess supply. There wasn't much of a sale season last year and there likely won't be this year. Maybe Fall/Winter 2022?
  • 5 1
 @MarcusBrody I feel so lucky that I built a new bike right in the beginning of 2020.. Suntour Aion 35mm stancions fork for 199 euro... Nukeproof Horizon wheels for 220 euro mmmm.... Brand-X dropper for 90$...
  • 2 0
 @Sirflyingv: Yep, you timed it right. I last bought a bike at the end of 2016 I believe. It was a 2015 model year bike that had been updated for 2016 and I got a great deal on the NOS version. But I have no real belief that I'll be stumbling onto a deal that good again. I've basically resigned myself to paying close to retail if I want a new bike in the next 2 years.

On the bright side, that's saved me money as I just look at my bike and think "You know, it's really totally fine."
  • 3 0
 New drinking game: take a drink every time Levy says "to be honest"
  • 1 0
 "The entire bike probably costs less than what Mike Levy spends at Tim Hortons in a month, but it’s way healthier and a whole lot more fun" HAHAH love it
  • 1 0
 US price seems high. I bought this for 799 €, put on a Rockshox 35 Gold that I found used and a dropper. It's awesome and the geo is spot on.
  • 1 0
 Why so heavy? it weights like FS cost wise I would no say it is super budget, there are competitors that will provide similar value for less or more value for same price
  • 3 0
 I have this bike and it's heavy because of the wheels. The Alexrims wheelset is like 2500 grams and the Schwalbe tires, while grippy and durable, are also super heavy.
  • 1 0
 This bike is temporarily out of stock in this size and colour. Enter your email address and we will let you know as soon as it is available again.
  • 1 0
 So in the UK this is the Stoic 2. For an extra £300 its well worth investing in the Stoic 3. Dropper post, 1x12 etc. It's practically a no brainer.
  • 1 0
 something about the junction of down and toptube i dont like. the headtube looks so far away from that spot. otherwise great hardtail.
  • 2 0
 Lol and they put the Mary on backwards!
  • 1 0
 Canyon: please make reasonably priced kids bikes with quality components that also don’t weigh a ton.
  • 1 2
 Sounds like you should be buying a Roscoe 7 if you're looking at this bike. And yes, I know this is assuming you can find one. I am getting to know Pinkbike people. If I don't specify you guys will attack lol.
  • 1 0
 No reference at all for when is going to be available? (not on the website)
  • 2 2
 Another 32 pound hard tail. is it made of cement?

That bike should be $700 Canadian. The price of bikes are a joke these days.
  • 1 0
 Cheap wheels and heavy tires are adding about 2kg.
  • 3 5
 WARNING: I repeat it again but I guess this cheap bike is coming with a very cheap headset that's gonna cause you some serious problems. Canyon has no shame mounting plastic head cups that litterally seize after 2 or 3 rides.
I saw that issue on a 2800€ Spectral lastly. The low cup was cut in two after 1 month and it started to eat the upper part of the Fox fork that was mounted on it. My client was disgusted and wrote to Canyon who simply avoid the question.... We finally mounted a Cane Creek 40 headset to solve the problem, but remind this: Canyon is NOT your best friend. I warned you.
  • 2 0
 I’m actually going to get this bike!
  • 1 0
 they could at least toss on a seatpost clamp with a lever instead of a bolt!
  • 1 0
 It looks pretty good but I'll pass. Something like a Kona Honzo better for all around riding for ME.
  • 1 0
 Canyon bikes look good.... not as nice as Trek though.
  • 3 1
 Looks like a San Quentin
  • 2 0
  • 1 0
 Compare to the GT Zaskar LT
  • 1 0
 Levy's shoes cost more than that bike.
  • 2 1
 Weird to see a SR Suntour fork back in bike builds
  • 1 0
 I prefer to wait Stoically the Stoic 5 release !
  • 1 0
 Let’s just go ahead and scream at the camera the whole time
  • 1 0
 errybody needs a hardtail.
  • 1 0
 Suntour looks stiffer than 38
  • 1 0
 I'll just switch out the XCR with an Aion or Auron and I'll be good to go!
  • 1 0
 So. Much. Want.
  • 2 5
 How so heavy?
  • 23 1
 Cheap, strong, light: Choose two.
  • 3 0
 Wheels alone are probably over 2000g, fork is a porker, brakes and drivetrain are cheap...
  • 2 0
 Those tires are like 1200g a piece too, can drop that down to 850 a piece with some maxxis dissectors or rekons, save ~700 grams which is almost 2 lbs
  • 4 2
 @TannerValhouli: maxxis, answer for every problem connected with tires ;P
  • 5 2
 @TannerValhouli: But according to pinkbike, if you run tires thinner than double down you'll flat every ride /s
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