The Good, the Bad, and the Ugly: The Bike Park Protection Pinkbike's Editors Actually Wear

Jun 14, 2023
by Henry Quinney  
We review a lot of kit here at Pinkbike. In fact, sometimes it can feel like a constant merry-go-round of helmets, gloves, tyres, or if we're extra lucky the latest bikes. It often transpires that we spend little time in the things we actually like most and more time trying to understand why things don't fit, work or feel as good as the manufacturer insists they should.

Downhill helmets and pads have come a long way in terms of comfort, safety and in some cases fit, but it's also in some ways one of the more conservative areas of design. Where as enduro protection has morphed from deep-trail helmets, to detachable chin guards and now the modern light weight full face, downhill helmets have arguably seen a process of refinement more than revolution. Similar could be said of knee pads, which have got more secure and in some cases sleeker or more comfortable, without perhaps seeing the massive overhauls in technologies that we saw around ten years ago with the advent of materials and technologies such as D30.



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My current go-to's include the 100% Aircraft 2 helmet, some Scott Prospect goggles with a very light tint, and a Leatt 3.5 Chestguard. On my knees, I wear the 7iDP Sam Hill pads. My typical riding in the park consists mixture of riding the tech runs as fast as I can, interlaced with fun blue runs with great turns. Truthfully, I don't have that much interest in the jump lines. It's just not my cup of tea.
Henry Quinney
Position: Tech Editor & Kettle Supervisor
Favourite type of trail: Fast tech and rough chatter
Chosen Protection (USD): 100% Aircraft 2 ($400), Leatt 3.5 Chest Protector ($149.99), Scott Prospect Goggles ($104.99), 7iDP Sam Hill Knee Pads ($94.99)

I like the Aircraft 2 helmet a lot. It feels like a great blend of ventilation, without going too far and becoming too light or enduro. It feels sturdy and whilst the way we review helmets is inherently subjective, it just fits my head well. Sometimes, I find that to get a helmet to fit I have to go to the huge XL or even XXL sizes, and quite frankly it looks and feels absurd. With the Aircraft 2, however, I was able to achieve a great fit in a large by just changing the pads.

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I love the fit, venting and styling of the 100% Aircraft 2. For me, it's a great combination of what I want a full face helmet to be.

When you are pushing on a hot day I would say it is noticeably better ventilated than other full-face helmets that I've ridden in. Yes, it can be warm in there, as with any full face, but by comparison, it does do a good job.

I like the Scott Prospect goggles for their huge field of vision. I don't like looking through goggles and feel like your seeing the world in a super-widescreen ration, as the top of your vision is obscured. Yes, you get used to it, but I like the Prospects because they don't suffer from this at all. I use a silver lens, which isn't particularly dark and works reasonably well in patchy light. I do sometimes swap it out for a light one though if the conditions warrant it, which is easy enough.

I really like the Sam Hill pads when using them for a review. They manage to include lots of things I want in a pad - flexible enough to pedal, plenty of firm protection over the knee cap and decent coverage. They are slightly bulkier than some other pads, but for the protection they offer, I would say they're very reasonable.

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The Sam Hill pads from 7iDP
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The goggles have a slight tint, and I wouldn't want them any darker for forested laps.

The roost-guard I use is the Leatt 3.5 Chest Protector. Honestly, I always thought this style of protection was a bit in-your-face, and previously I thought it was kinda dumb. Maybe I'm mellowing in my age, or maybe just becoming more pretentious, either way - I've been using it a lot and I've really began to like it. This is for three main reasons - it's more safe than not having it, it's light and unrestricting and finally when wearing it on the outside, it's very easy to unclip and vent on the chairlift or hot-sticky gondola cabin on the way back up.

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The chest-guard adds a bit of protection I never used to bother with...
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... but now I've started using it I don't want to go without.



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I've been visiting Whistler for the last twenty years and I'm still not even being close to being sick of it, unlike Henry, who took one lap on A-Line and decided that was enough jumping for him...

Along with the pure entertainment factor of being whisked to the top of a mountain and then being able to chose from a wide variety of trails, it's also an incredibly efficient zone for product testing – there aren't too many places in the world that are better suited to bike, suspension, and wheel smashing. My preferred lap runs the gamut from the blown out chunkiness of Goat's Gully to the the fun and floaty jumps on A-Line and Dirt Merchant – it all just depends on my mood.

Mike Kazimer
Position: Managing Tech Editor, nap aficionado
Favorite type of trail: Pretty much all of them.
Chosen Protection (USD): Giro Insurgent helmet ($350), Smith Rhythm goggles ($80), iXS Carve Race knee pads ($130), Fox Baseframe Pro sleeveless back protector ($190)

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Giro Insurgent helmet and Smith Rhythm goggles.
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iXS Carve Race knee pads blend comfort and protection nicely.

The full-face helmet I've been wearing the most lately is the Giro Insurgent, mainly due to the very comfortable fit. It's also nice and quiet, free of any annoying plastic creaks or squeaks. It weighs a reasonable 1053 grams, and has the 'just right' feel I'm looking for in a DH-oriented helmet – it doesn't feel like I've strapped a bowling ball to my head, and it also doesn't feel it'll disintegrate during a small tip over. It's decently ventilated too, although that factor's not as high on my priority list, since I take my helmet off at the end of every lap.

For goggles, I always run clear lenses, and ideally chose a pair with a wide field of vision - I don't like seeing the top or edges of the goggle frame while I'm riding. Smith's new Rhythm goggles have been doing the trick this season - they fit well with my helmet, and the wide strap keeps them securely in place.

I typically go with a slightly burlier knee guard when I'm riding in the bike park compared to what I'd wear on a more pedally ride. The speeds are higher, which means the impact force is going to be greater if I do make a mistake and end up sliding around in the dirt. iXS's Carve Race knee pads have a viscoelastic foam inner pad, with a harder plastic shell on the outside. I typically wear pants unless it's a million degrees out, but in theory that plastic shell should slide better on the ground, and adds some extra durability. There's also additional foam padding at the sides and the top of the knee for even more protection. The silicone strip at the top of the pads does occasionally irritate my skin - in an ideal world, the pads would have a taller cuff and use dots of silicone rather than one solid strip.

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Fox's Baseframe back protector is super comfy and barely noticeable, even on hot days.

It took me a while, but I finally found a back protector that I don't mind wearing all day long – Fox's Baseframe Pro Sleeveless Chest Guard. It's essentially a lightweight tank-top with a removable D30 back protector housed in a sleeve on the back. There's also a foam chest protector, and a small bit of foam padding at the hips. It easily fits under a jersey or a t-shirt, and it's not bulky or uncomfortable in the slightest. I already have some titanium souvenirs in my spine, and I don't want any more, so I figure a little extra protection is a good idea.



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There are few things sweeter than getting ferried to the top of a hill littered with amazing bike trails, so any day at Whistler is a good one in my book. I love being able to spend time purely focusing on descending, having fun, and improving skills, without any worry about how many pedal laps you have left in the tank. Natural tech trails are my happy place, but I'm learning to love the jumps just as much - ultimately it's pretty hard to have a bad time when you're riding bikes and relaxing on the uplift.
Dario DiGiulio
Position: Tech Editor, local kook
Favorite type of trail: Love it all, but tech has my heart.
Chosen Protection (USD): Fox Proframe RS Sumyt ($360), iXS Trigger Race knee pads ($160), EyeBuyDirect Glasses ($25), Safety Squint ($Free)
Before you freak out about the glasses - I know. Contacts are key for me, and some weird new prescription needs has me searching for a pair that actually stay in place over the course of a rough run, so hopefully soon I can be back in the land of protected eyes. For now, I'm just another kook on the hill, rocking the biggest pair of glasses I could get my hands on. Maybe it's the start of a trend, who knows.

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Fox Proframe helmet and EyeBuyDirect grandpa glasses.
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iXS Trigger Race knee pads are large, but comfortable.

At the moment, I'm rocking the Fox Proframe RS Sumyt helmet in the park, despite it being more of an all-mountain piece of protection. It is DH rated, with a whole host of certifications, and the spherical Mips system has proven to be very effective on other helmets I've tested, so I feel confidant in the protection it offers. The upside to the lighter construction, besides the 820g overall weight, is the amount of airflow you get around your head, which makes busting out as many laps as possible just a little bit more comfortable. My one complaint with this helmet is the squeaking that comes from the contact between the two slip-plane layers in the shell. You don't really notice it at speed, but when things are slower and quieter, it can be quite irritating.

Goggles, how I miss thee. These EyeBuyDirect glasses (called the Intrepid should you want to cop my look) are massive, so they do offer pretty decent protection from dust and debris - but they're no replacement for the real thing. The one upside to this absurd look is I do get a ton of air through the front of the helmet, keeping things cool.

Similar to Kaz, I tend towards the burlier knee guards when I'm in the park, because why not. These iXS Triggers are about as beefy as I'm willing to wear, but they remain comfortable over a day of riding, even when temps are high. The silicone can be irritating after a few hours, but it's pretty much the only reminder that I have them on. Thanks to the full-knee coverage and hard plastic, I don't really worry about any sort of tipover, and can use the pads as a soft catch in case that does happen.




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The ground in the bike park is basically concrete, compacted by thousands of tires, so I feel safest with a serious full-face helmet, goggles, gloves, legit knee pads, and upper body protection. Most of the time, I’ll also opt for long sleeves and pants unless the temperature rises above thirty degrees.

Lately, I’ve added in elbow pads for the same reason - there’s not much cushion between your funny bone and the rock-hard berms of Aline and the like, which is where I end up spending the most time, even though I primarily ride a downhill bike in the park.
Matt Beer
Position: Tech Editor & neck tan specialist
Favourite type of trail: High-speed tech, aka the bike workout.
Chosen Protection (USD): Fox RPC helmet ($500 USD), Fox Vue goggles ($134.95 USD), Fox Raceframe Impact D3O Back Chest Guard ($189.95 USD) POC Joint VPD 2.0 Knee Long pads ($160 USD), Racer Mountain Elbow pads (€69 EUR), Leatt 4.0 Lite gloves ($69.99 USD)

As the summer progresses and the upper trails around Whistler open up, I’ll trim a few layers and drag an enduro bike into the park for testing and turn to the more technical, nature trails. If the ride is lift-assisted, I’ll still reach for the full-face helmet but I might resort to one of the lighter, heavily vented options out there. With that said, should the laps take me to those fast, machine-made trails, I try to town down the intensity and lower the chance of hitting the deck.

For the most part, my gear of choice would be a Fox RPC helmet and Vue goggles with a lens that locks into the frame - I’ve seen scary incidents with lenses popping out in seemingly innocent crashes. The RPC helmet is on the larger side, in terms of volume, but the variable-density foams inside have convinced me that they offer superior protection.

When it comes to knee pads, I look for ones with a plastic cup in addition to an impact-absorbing material. Fox’s Launch Pro D30 would be the go-to if there might be any uphill segments involved in the ride. Otherwise, I love the coverage and robustness of POC’s VPD 2.0 Knee Long, …long knee pad.

Racer is a seldom-seen company on this side of the pond offering quality protection goods. Surprisingly, their thick elbow pads are quite flexible and haven’t caused increased arm fatigue - something I’ve found with other equipment in this area. They won’t deter broken limbs, but they will take the sting, and stick, off of road rash.

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Another key piece of protection I’ve been wearing in the bike park for a decade now is a roost guard, or whatever you want to call it. The Fox Raceframe Impact D3O Back Chest Guard describes what it does best and like the elbow pads, it won’t stop fractures, but it will deter pointy rocks from stabbing your ribs or bumping your spine. I tend to wear this item over my jersey in the cooler months to avoid chafing any sensitive areas and underneath in the summer to increase airflow.

On occasion, I’ll skimp on gloves for a casual pedal or big mountain mission, however, they are a must-have for me in the bike park. I’ve found that they add a level of grip over sweaty palms or rainy grips and hold the bars with less force, therefore avoiding hand fatigue. One extra layer to shield your palms against high-speed sandpaper doesn’t seem like a terrible idea to me either. Exterior protection on gloves isn’t totally necessary to my choices yet I’m happy to have these on when I get whipped by a lingering alder branch or fence marker.

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I like to go pretty storm-trooper in the bike park. I always wear a full-face helmet, goggles, chunky knee pads, elbow pads, and a chest protector. Most of the time, I’ll also opt for long sleeves and pants unless it's above 100 degrees or so. My current go-tos are the Smith Mainline Helmet, some Oakley goggles that I won at Crankworx a few years ago (and still do the trick), and a Fox Raceframe Impact Chestguard. On my knees and elbows, I wear the POC Joint VPD System. I always choose tech over jumps.

Christie Fitzpatrick
Position: Content Manager, potato enthusiast
Favourite type of trail: Awkward and lumpy.
Chosen Protection (USD): Smith Mainline Helmet ($310 USD), Oakley Airbrake Goggles ($220 USD), Fox Raceframe Impact D3O Back Chest Guard ($189.95 USD) POC Joint VPD System Knee Pads ($175 USD), POC Joint VPD System Elbow pads ($150 USD), Wild Rye Galena Gel Gloves ($38 USD)

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After a couple too many handlebars to the chest, I don't ride the bike park much without a chest protector - especially at anything high speed. The Fox Raceframe Impact D3O Back Chest Guard was the only one I could get my hands on when I decided to pull the trigger during Covid, and I've been really happy with it. Like Matt says above, it'll go some way in protecting your squishy important insides from rogue rocks and branches, and once I have it on I barely notice.

I'm a little hot and cold with gloves - sometimes I can't imagine riding without them, and other times I find I have better braking control with them on. If nothing else, they're good blister protection. When I am wearing gloves, I'm usually wearing the Wild Rye Galenas. They're super comfy and I can identify them easily amongst our gross pile of bike stuff in the mud room.

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To be honest, I've only ever owned my POC VPD Joint System for elbows (again, a Crankworx special from 2021) - but they work great. I don't tend to wear them when I'm trail riding anymore, but I probably should. They get a little hot under the silicone on the super warm days but it's worth it considering how many times I've scraped the skin off the rest of my arms. For the knees - the VPD Joint System are thickset but comfortable, they slide on nicely under my riding pants without leaving me feeling restricted or chafing. I'm not scrambling to pull them off after my evening laps, and I feel the tradeoff is pretty good. For trail riding, I'm currently testing some lightweight alternatives I'm really stoked on.

I know that the Smith Mainline is targeted mostly at enduro riding, and isn't the perfect helmet for smashing laps of A-Line four nights a week. But because I don't ride particularly high speed jump trails (I just really enjoy spending all night scratching my chin, cross-eyed, picking apart tech lines), and can probably count my total summer days in the bike park on two hands and two feet, it works for me. I do feel it's a great option for both in and out of the park, and it delivers excellent breathability and solid protection. Plus, I don't have room on the shelf for another, bike park specific helmet.

I've recently been testing the Leatt Gravity 4.0 MTB Pant which are pretty slick, and add a nice extra layer of protection in the bike park. On my feet, I only really get along with Fiveten Freerider Pros. I'm currently learning to ride clips (pray for me).

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203 Comments
  • 57 5
 Chest/Spine and Neck Brace, Knee Pads, and Full Face are must haves for me these days. I am not sure when it stopped being cool to wear neck braces but with how light they've become it just seems odd barely anyone wears them anymore.
  • 80 11
 Some people just prefer to see where the track goes
  • 19 0
 The neck brace thing is an interesting topic. I personally haven’t tried one in a long time as I remember hating how it restricted movement but I do remember seeing them on a lot of people at the bike park whereas now they’re almost completely gone. It seems that trend is the same in motocross and other sports. Same with the NFL, they used to all have pretty substantial neck “braces”, now you will never see them even in the era of concussions being what everyone is talking about. Makes you wonder if it really is a trend or if the science doesn’t really support their efficacy.
  • 20 1
 @ShreddinThePig: I'm not sure honestly. It's completely anecdotal but I feel mine has saved my neck a few times. I bought the carbon leatt brace with one of their helmets and with it properly fit I really don't feel like my neck movement is limited for riding, but it is limited in moving to the extremes I wouldn't want. I wear a leatt enduro 4.0 helmet and the carbon neck brace on basically any ride nowadays and I don't really notice I am wearing the brace anymore. Maybe its just a piece of mind thing, but biking is an inherently dangerous sport.
  • 36 3
 Agreed - got one after trying to look up research on it and finding this study shared on another PB article from back in the day. the data is pretty compelling www.actionsportsems.com/case-study-neck-brace
  • 8 1
 @two-plank: DAYUM!! It seems pretty simple, if you ride park, get one, that fits!
  • 3 1
 @two-plank: Thanks for that link, very interesting read
  • 16 0
 @bok-CZ: if your neck brace is inhibiting movement and/or vision... It's not set up correctly
  • 6 0
 I think it was Greenland who said that he stopped using it because now that the bikes are longer and the upper body position more horizontal, the back of his helmet was making contact constantly with the brace. I have no idea if this is a sound argument or just an excuse to stop using it because no one used it any more.
  • 37 3
 @two-plank: I’m not really for or against them, however that “study” about their use is super misleading. According to their data 5% of their cases had a critical cervical spine injury without a brace and 0.7% had the same with a brace. While this may technically be “89% more likely”, it’s only an actual 3.3% increase in absolutes. This and a few other weird things in that “study” is probably why it’s just posted on someone’s website and not peer-reviewed and published in a real medical journal.
  • 1 1
 @bok-CZ: Then get one that fits? Why would your brace that fits prevent you from seeing?
  • 1 0
 @wburnes: I've tried a few like 10 years ago when it was hot topic, not even one I felt comfy enough in attack position. I don't miss it anyway
  • 1 0
 @naptime: yeah I tried a few options even with an assistance, but I still needed to be able to bend my neck more back than it allowed. I'm also not 100% sure about its benefits
  • 4 0
 @bok-CZ: I use an Atlas Air neck brace and its only restrictive if I'm taking off my shoes while keeping my helmet on, or crashing. I 100% recommend it
  • 39 5
 Im always skeptical when people say "my neck brace saved me a few times already" You've really had 3+ crashes that would have broke your neck? If something that 99% of riders will never experience has happened that often maybe its time to re-evaluate your riding style and hone it back a bit.
  • 10 3
 @StanMarsh: why not eliminate (or greatly mitigate) the 1% risk that you will be paralyzed and have your life ruined? They cost like $200 and are comfortable to wear.

How much is being able bodied worth to you?
  • 3 4
 @wburnes: The "science" is too imperfect. Neck/spine length, shoulder girth, musculature size, skull size, helmet shape, setup angle of brand of brace, chest size, collarbone length, so on and so forth.

The human body at that junction isn't a one size fits all. And any neck brace that's selling me on their brand limiting spine injury has an impossible sell. No way they can say my neck is the the one neck/chest/spine/chin that when in this one specific brand of helmet and specific brand of brace with this specific set of pad inserts...is stopping my neck from snapping by limiting that 1-5mm of excess articulation.

And I'm a guy who lawn darted as a kid and landed straight down on my C3 vertebrae and have a compression fracture of it. It's witchcraft at a minimum.
  • 6 7
 They kind of lost their appeal because they inhibit the body’s natural movement in a way that actually causes crashes
  • 5 7
 @Pinemtn: except they don't do that at all
  • 8 5
 @blowmyfuse: the same argument is equally valid against the use of kneepads, spine protection, helmets, goggles, etc.

You might as well go naked because nothing is perfect
  • 9 1
 @wburnes: no one here I’m sure is saying protection from paralysis isn’t worth $200. I’d pay a whole lot more than that for something that really worked. The issue is there really is no data showing it works, and no, the study published above is far from compelling.

Like so much in mtb protection, there’s lots of marketing, buzzwords, acronyms, and very expensive gear, but very little research done to actually proving out benefits, which is so frustrating.

By the way, I’m all in on wearing the best gear I can: I use shin, knee, and elbow pads and a full face every ride. Just feels like shots in the dark choosing between items, wish there were better data guiding our choices than “this helmet feels robust”
  • 9 7
 @StanMarsh: I can't say for certain they would have broken my neck, but head first into a tree, and a few times rolling over my neck in an OTB aren't going to be great for your neck and in those instances I felt my helmet stop up against the brace and push hard into it. One resulted in a broken collarbone from the force through the brace.

Why should I change my riding style... I am a competent rider but shit still happens. We're riding fast over crazy stuff, through the woods, and catching air. Stuff is bound to happen and once you're ejected from that bike you can't react fast enough most times to get yourself out of danger. I know better riders than I who've broken their necks. Maybe it helps, maybe it doesn't but in my experience i'd rather have it than not on the chance it makes it even 5% less likely i'd end up in a wheel chair.

Saying simply "get gooder so you don't break your neck" is the dumbest shit i've heard all day and its only 10am.
  • 5 6
 @ShreddinThePig: If anything, it seems to be your interpretation of the study that is misleading.

It makes a life ruining injury significantly less likely to occur, and doesn't have any downside, other than costing a couple hundred bucks
  • 4 0
 This always comes up anytime a neck brace is brought up, the issue is the neck brace also prevents you from being able to tuck your chin and initiate a roll while your crashing which is especially useful when talking about DH riding and you can be lawn darted easily.

The other glaring issue is that in a perfect situation and the do their job perfectly they can only prevent a fraction of neck/spine injuries. Majority of spine and neck fractures are from compression not from your neck bending too far one way or the other (think landing and your head pushing downwards into your spine).

I was almost paralyzed this way shattering three vertebrae and a neck brace would not have helped in the least.
  • 4 0
 @ShreddinThePig: Agree. I have a neck brace, would like to see more conclusive data that uses sound statistics to prove efficacy.

I do use my neckbrace when I'm on my DH bike... but I don't when I'm on my trail or cheater bike going down the same trails. I'm so weird.
  • 2 0
 I got a killer deal from LEATT (40% off) on a carbon neck brace at the SOC a few years ago and I never wear it. When I race DH with the old guys, half of them are wearing one and I still don't and feel like an idiot for not wearing mine every time. It's a mental puzzle I can't solve. The thing is super comfortable and I barely notice it. The couple times people asked me about it, I just say "my mom makes me wear it" which is laughable at my age. I hit a low hanging tree branch with the top of by head on a trail ride and compressed some vertebrae (self-diagnosis) in my neck and it hurt me for 3 years. I believe neck braces could help in that scenario. Now I have recovered and the neck is feeling 'OK' for my age but I still don't wear it racing DH/DS/END. I need to learn to be more like Andy Anderson and not give a F.
  • 2 0
 Yeah I’m pro neck brace as well. I really don’t find it that restrictive or uncomfortable. It might not look as cool but it is cheaper than a hospital bill
  • 4 1
 @ShreddinThePig:
I raced MX and enduro at national expert level for years all through the 90’s to 2004 and had many concussions,
I had 13 in 1 year and had to retire for a year because of it , this was years before many knew or took an interest in concussions seriously, and many years before neck braces were around, they were only introduced after I stopped racing for good , I would have worn one without doubt if they were available and maybe would not have had so many injuries, a big part of the problem was a heavy by today standards Arai helmet which contributed to the hits , years later going back to riding trials I worn carbon helmets.
I only ride trails on my MTB now , never ridden DH or park , I have no idea why you guys don’t wear a neck brace!
Believe me , many concussions, brain scan , neck scan and X-ray, ambulance , disalgesic pain killers , headaches , and memory loss for me could have been prevented, you only have one brain and neck!
  • 1 0
 @wburnes: he's not said he doesn't wear one.
  • 7 1
 @ShreddinThePig: A 3.3% increase in absolutes is an absolutely massive increase.
  • 1 1
 with introducing of enduro helmets, that are not neck brace compatible
  • 4 0
 @bok-CZ: I've never had issues with mine keeping me from seeing the trail, leatt 3.5 neck brace,
  • 5 4
 @chwk: Your anecdote about your neck brace saving your neck by breaking your collar bone suggests that, at least once, your brace has in fact done its job. They work by redirecting kinetic energy away from the spine, so if you're not getting serious bruising (at least) from the neck brace during a crash, it's not actually doing anything. Sounds like a good thing you wear one!

@wburnes: is there a reason you're so hostile to people relating that neck braces interfere with their range of motion? If someone's losing range of motion to the extent that it's interfering with vision or one's ability to react to trail features, then the brace is increasing the likelihood of a crash, which makes every ride more dangerous, objectively speaking.

If you haven't experienced that issue, then by all means keep wearing a brace (seriously!), but there are reasons that the vast majority of pro mountain bike racers, not to mention essentially 100% of Moto pros, have ditched them. Considering that those neck braces usually come with sponsorship dollars attached and guys have STILL ditched them citing safety concerns, it's just not credible to claim that the braces "don't have any downside."
  • 5 1
 @ShreddinThePig: the numbers aren't that bad. 25 vs 225 cases out of two groups of roughly 4000 people is better than many a peer-reviewed paper I have seen and that includes very respectable journals. I'm not going to do the math this must have a p value way below 0.05.
The less solid part of the study is that this is not a randomized group. But fig 6, which shows other injuries and cervical spine injuries in one graph, suggests that there's no big difference between the groups in being injury prone.
A scientific paper would need a lot more info on how data was collected, how injuries were classified etc etc but in terms of statistics it doesn't look bad to me. (for whatever that means, I'm a physicist who sometimes reads medical papers, not a statistician)
  • 2 3
 @DirtCrab: Because a properly fitting one doesn't interfere, and spreading this sort of misinformation makes people less likely to wear one, and therefore less safe.

Every day I come on to this site, make totally reasonable arguments for my position, and then get hit with "but the PROS". Newsflash, the pros aren't special. They make dumbass decisions all the time, just like everyone else on Earth.

If they were smart they would be wearing a neckbrace.
  • 3 0
 What about shoulders? I just dislocated my right - seven weeks out from a trip to Whistler… looking at enough rehab and protection options. Anyone tried the leatt shoulder brace?
  • 3 3
 I personally have had injuries directly related to the use of a neck brace... so i no longer wear one.
  • 1 0
 @nickmalysh: I wear a full face in DH, DS and Enduro.
  • 6 2
 @wburnes: Here we go again with this "but a properly fitting one..." deflection. Cool story, but it's also based on a logical fallacy (No True Scotsman.)

Some of us actually want neck braces to work for us. I've tried every single model I could get my hands on (and actually purchased a Leatt and an Atlas) and tried both with a bunch of different DH and Moto helmets, and have been unable to find a combination that provides unrestricted range of motion such as you describe. In other words, there may not be a "properly fitting" option for some of us, according to your definition.

Or you could just keep insulting people's intellect because their real world experience doesn't jive with your assumptions. Your choice. :shrugs:
  • 1 0
 which one would ya say is the best?
  • 4 0
 @ak-77: it looks like this was literally prepared by some EMS techs who had access to this data through there jobs , were curious and did some rudimentary summary statistics on it, and found something compelling enough that it certainly warrants more investigation.

The sample size we're dealing with here is certainly large enough to run regression analysis on while throwing a good number of fixed effects into the specification to account for the potential confounding factors and still come out with a stat sig result (provided the relevant ancilarry info is in that dataset or could be joined to it).

It won't ever be able to give us the same confidence that the effect we pick up is attributable to the intervention like an RCT would but, conducting neck brace RCT is unethical so it's the next best thing.

I'm tempted to try to get in contact w the authors to see if they'd share the data w me.
  • 2 5
 @DirtCrab:

1. Not a deflection. Not a logical fallcacy either

2. I doubt this. If you have really weird anatomy or a deformity/preexisting injury maybe

3. Your intellect being insulted is a choice of interpretation on your part, not mine
  • 3 1
 @bok-CZ: I have the atlas air and used to ride an ancient Leatt and the new ones are 100 times more comfortable with more movement. Also crashed in one and doctors and physios said after the accident that I would have destroyed my C-spine without it. I know it's anecdotal and all, but I lawn darted into the ground head first with enough force to get a compression fracture in my lower back but my neck was barely sore.
  • 1 0
 @mechtechmatt: Glad you survived! I am going to try to wear mine. Too old to f*ck around.
  • 1 1
 @Lumenous1: I had the Leatt and still managed to dislocate my shoulder while wearing it. Got me the EVS SB03 three years ago. Had no problems since. Fitment ist better too.
  • 1 2
 @two-plank: It is not a peer reviewed study. This is just some article with numbers. Absolutely useless peace of data.
  • 1 2
 @wburnes: it inhibits the natural body movement needed to go fast and win races
  • 1 0
 @Aled-DHI: what happened?
  • 4 0
 @goroncy: As someone who performs and is subjected to peer review in my daily profession, I wouldn't make that statement.
This was never subjected to peer review. That doesn't make it useless. And I can tell you for sure that some stuff that passes peer review is useless. There's only so much you can check when they expect you to do this reviewing on a voluntary and unpaid basis next to your busy job.
The big advantage of a dataset like this, contrary to some stuff that gets sent out for peer review, is that it is more likely that the person presenting this did their best to present them as is, because their carreers don't depend on gettting this paper accepted.
Don't get me wrong, I am very much in the science camp of the 'science is just another opinion' discussion, but to me, peer review alone is not enough to guarantee quality. Confirmation by independent research that gives the same outcome is a must for this type of research in my opinion, but the incentives for scientists are to do something that is novel so there's not enough of that around.
  • 1 1
 @freestyIAM: Is an RCT for neck braces unethical? If you give the neck braces away for free and give the control group an opt-out option after assignment I don't think so. An RCT for helmets can't be done because they are mandatory in most places but neck braces I think could work.
Getting funding for a 5 year study with 10000 subjects that need to be followed, including the purchase of 5000 neck braces would be hard.
  • 1 0
 @ak-77: if you let people opt in and out then you aren't insulating your study from the self selection bias. It's part of why a try RCT is the gold standard. What you are proposing is an RED, which is a next best alternative.

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2446460
  • 1 0
 @freestyIAM: People can always opt out of a study. It's never mandatory. I just proposed to make that opt out option more explicit for the control group to relieve them from a social pressure to ride without a neck brace in the name of science and improve ethical quality. Also, what I proposed wasn't an opt-in. You opt in to the study but get assigned to a group randomly. If you don't want to wear the brace or don't want to ride without you leave the study, you can't go from one group to the other.
You can't do an intervention like this in a double blind manner anyway, it's not like someone wouldn't notice they get a neck brace on. Theoretically you could make a placebo neck brace that shatters on impact with minimal energy absorption but that would indeed be unethical.
Just when writing this the idea occurred to me to have this research sponsored by Strava. Embed a GPS into the neck brace, then you can correllate the rider's Strava account with their brace's. Even in a completely anonymized way.
  • 2 1
 @ak-77: I'm not a statistician by any means and only applying logic here. The paper says that out of a sample size of 8K+, spine injury occurred on 25 subjects vs 225 who didn't wear neck brace. But what if out of the 8K+ subjects, only 25 subjects wore neck braces. The rate of injury would have been 100%! I'm just saying that they should have included how many of the population wore neck brace as a point of comparison.... or if they did (explicitly or implicitly), then I must have missed it.
  • 3 0
 @microfiz: check figure 6. It's about 45 percent with neck brace.
  • 2 0
 Forgot to add: but of course this is EMS data. 45% of injured people wore neck braces. We don't know how many of the riders did, and how many hours those riders did.
So we can't tell from this whether you are more likely to fall with a neck brace on (as some have suggested here)
This data does seem to suggest that IF you take a FALL bad enough to hurt you, a neck brace does a pretty good job at protecting your spine.
  • 1 0
 @two-plank: Thank you for sharing this. I’ve not seen this data before. I’ve been on the fence about neck braces. This is definitely very compelling data for neck braces.
  • 23 1
 What kind of protection does Levy wear during his gravel adventures and curling matches?
  • 8 1
 Was going to ask where is Mike Levy? I’m starting to get worried
  • 15 5
 Way to just offend an entire slew of don't-ask-about-Levy-because-that's (fill in the blank) PB commentors (of which I am not one) Ithink its lame of PB to just say nothing about 9 weeks of Non-Levymanship. I'm not asking about Levy's personal life, if he was abducted by aliens, crashed & hurt himself, quit, was fired or just taking time off.

Levy got me through the pandemic w/ the PB podcast and to me is the voice & face of PB (that's just me...I don't expect others think this) so for him to be gone so long w/ zero explanation is super frurstrating. I haven't totally tuned out of PB but I'm about 75% less interested than I was just b/c he's such a funny dude and the podcast w/ Levy's funny ass schtick was a highlight of my week. I miss the guy & wish PB would just give a simple 10-20 on it. We don't need details - just whatever's happening. If PB can't be real w/ us why should we respect it?
  • 6 0
 @wutamclan: The Aliens took him to their planet because he was on to them
  • 2 0
 a donut?
  • 3 0
 @Mtn-Goat-13: I find it quite interesting that Levy goes missing right when the (probably) biggest UFO story of all time drops

www.theguardian.com/world/2023/jun/06/whistleblower-ufo-alien-tech-spacecraft
  • 2 0
 @wutamclan: He's still investigating that sink hole.
  • 16 1
 I had a crash last year and broke 5 ribs then got Covid 3 days later. Lets just say it was a rough week. I wasn't wearing a chest protector at the time even though I had one sitting at home and would have meant just some sore ribs over broken. I now wear a chest protector on all my DH laps. Just in case......
  • 7 0
 Dude. I get that I had something similar. I didn’t have a cough but instead hiccups. I had a hard fall, broke several ribs, scapula, collapsed a lung and broke the collarbone bone. Got home from the hospital, went to bed then my diaphragm decides its time for hiccups. I get them like 1 time every 1-2 years. It was a horrible experience.
  • 2 0
 I've broken ribs twice in crashes, primarily because of the technique i guess i've adapted where i kind of tuck and roll to the side if i can. In both cases, it wasn't the impact itself that broke my ribs but rather, my arm tucked in tight against the side of my ribs that i think compression factured them from the force of mashing my body into my arm/elbow, into the ground like a sandwich. I dunno that a chest protector would have done much there as opposed to a blunt force impact to my chest for example, but 4 broken wrists in life has me not putting my hands out first by default if i can avoid it.
  • 3 0
 @daugherd @powderhoundbrr You poor guys Big Grin I thought the body has some secret magic power that just doesn't allow getting a cough or hiccups while dealing with fractured ribs. Luckily never happened to me - then again I managed to refracture a broken rib 2.5 weeks into recovery with one heavy sneeze..

Regarding chest protection, I don't see much value in it. My front chest might be the only part of my body that I never injured in a crash. Surely wouldn't have saved me in my last big crash where I landed sideways on a stum fracturing some ribs and collapsed lung. In MX it makes sense as protection from roost.
  • 2 3
 @paulpimml: I don't wear a chest protector either and never have. I also had a crash in my early 20's where I way overshot a double and landed on the beginning of the next take-off. Heavy chest/stem impact resulted in a cracked sternum. Some people can 'crack' their knuckles, I can 'crack' my chest by pushing my shoulders back. Life is risk though and you take your chances.
  • 4 0
 I had a crash where I broke several vertebrae, 9 ribs, tore ligaments in my back, and punctured a lung. I still remember the day during recovery when a surprise sneeze didn’t bring me to tears. Ribs were 100% the worst part of that ordeal (with 8 weeks of discomfort in a neck/back brace as a close second). Broken ribs + COVID sounds like the stuff of nightmares.
  • 4 0
 @tomfoolerybackground: It was rough, i wasn't that sick but had a cough. SO it was literally days of laying in bed going don't cough don't cough don't cough don't cough don't cough don't cough don't cough don't cough don't cough don't cough don't cough don't cough
  • 2 0
 Crashed hard last year and landed shoulder first. Heard the *crack* and assumed it was my collar bone.

When I finally had the balls to reach up and check, my collar bone was fine, but my ribs were broken on that side along with a seperated shoulder. Didn't even impact on my ribs, they just happened to be the week link.
  • 11 0
 Fastest guy wears the most protection…lol. I wear more or less the same kit as Matt no matter the weather. After many years I’ve landed on that there is no chill in the WBP…speeds are so high you gotta be on it no matter the trail.
  • 15 4
 Funny how everyone gears up for smooth flow trails..but wear a halfshell and maybe some leg warmers flying through the forest with roots and rocks ..ever hit a tree going 30mph....haha yeah forgetaboutit
  • 1 0
 Can't speak for everyone but I don't come anywhere close to 30mph on technical trails. We don't have trailside trees here just friendly bushes that catch you and kind of break your fall...scratches but not broken bones or concussion if you go off trail.
  • 12 0
 Average speeds much higher at a park. In reality, we should probably be wearing full face helmets everywhere. Having to pedal in them is the problem.
  • 2 0
 I don't know where you ride, but I ride much more difficult trails at my local bikepark than trail riding, and that was true for most places I've lived
  • 2 0
 @pb-kg: I hang mine on my handlebars for climbs, which is the most breathable (climbing) option of all helmet setups haha. Sucks to bang your knee on it in tight switchbacks, but it's tolerable.
  • 1 0
 @TurboDonuts: Definitely gone that route for races, but it's not ideal. Helmet and google dings and scratches abound unless you have a system, which I do not. Way easier to just half-shell it.
  • 6 0
 Average hour and a half trail ride I'm descending for maybe 15mins. A bike park day I'm descending for multiple hours. Yeah of course i'm gonna gear up more for the bike park.
  • 1 0
 @IsaacWislon82: that’s cuz you live in New Mexico which is true for here, but not places like CA or Utah. I’d say the same for Nevada and and Arizona even comparing them to Angel Fire or some CA parks. Now Pajarito is a different story hahaha.
  • 1 0
 This actually happened to my neighbour. He clipped a tree branch on a super chill trail. Dude was still using bullhorns and the branch got lodged in between them and the bar. Sent him flying towards a tree and he spent weeks in hospital. It took him months to recover. No gnar in sight and he was wearing a 10 year old cheap helmet.
  • 1 0
 @birdsandtrees: FWIW its also that way in Vermont, New Hampshire, and New York which were other places I've lived in and bike around the past. When I lived in DC it was more of a wash
  • 3 0
 i go full face (TLD Stage or Leatt Gravity 4.0) and knee pads (Leatt Airflex Pro) 95% of the time when mountain biking. The half shell comes out on the hottest of days. Elbow pads come out when I want to push my comfort zone or at the bike park. Most smooth flow trails I tend to gear up. more so because of the speeds. even if you don't hit a tree at 30mph, the ground won't feel good either.
  • 1 0
 @IsaacWislon82: well let’s just say I’m jealous you live near AF.
  • 3 0
 What's very frustrating for me is our local enduro series mandates wearing helmets anytime you are pedalling, so you cannot take if off even during road climbs. Gave up on 2 helmets because crashing with a half shell in your backpack is a terrible idea too. So suck it up buttercup and wear an Enduro full face helmet, but there have been races where it was so hot and "I knew the trails" and went with a half shell because of that rule.
  • 2 0
 @preston67: Do you pull the cheek pads from your FF when you do the climbs? I learned that trick awhile ago and it makes a significant difference. still hot, but less so.
  • 1 0
 Or that roadies wear just a leotard and tiny foam cap when hitting 45mph on concrete descents with cars
  • 8 0
 Someone convince me why, just practically speaking, one would skip elbow or shoulder padding but wear a roost guard. I can’t remember a single time my chest took a hit before elbows, knees, shoulders. It’s moto fashion, right? Or do kids throw rocks at your chest at whistler?
  • 1 0
 The primary purpose of my roost guard is back protection. Mine came with 3DO padding on the back. Let’s hope I never have to test it out.
  • 2 0
 You’ve never seen someone’s arms collapse under a big compression and take a stem to the chest/ribs?

I have, looks rather uncomfortable.

Probably saved a mates rib when they went over the bars and cracked the chest guard.
  • 2 0
 I've hit the deck with enough force that my arms weren't enough to save me from a fairly good impact on the sternum. Escaped from rib fractures by a hair and chest protector would've made the event less dramatic
  • 4 0
 The question is points out the complete lack of shoulder protection. Shoulders, elbows and ankles are the most complex joints - the first two are usually the first body parts hitting the ground. With D3O and other similar products the only downside of wearing such protectors is getting a little more toasty. This is not an issue at a bikepark where pedaling is minimal.
  • 2 0
 yeah most all my serious injuries have been to a shoulder or the area surrounding the shoulder. so I suck it up and have been wearing full upper protection jackets…a heavier one for higher consequence rides. I drop serious sweat anyway so its nbd. thanked myself so many times for wearin it. After age 40 or so, recovering from serious hits just takes so much longer. the task was finding brands that fir right and a local seamstress just does her magic and dials things in for me.
  • 6 0
 @mike kazimer , and others,
Instead of that Fox baseframe sleeveless, go for the Baseframe Pro SS:
Same concept and back protector, but it also has removable D3O shoulder pads, so if you don’t want them, leave them out.
But the biggest upgrade is the chest: it has a removable D30 chest plate, similar to the back one.

So you get way more protection (plain EVA does very poorly), and you get more venting (because it’s perforated), and on hot days for trail and enduro riding, you can remove the chest plate, and be MUCH cooler, while still manning spine protection.
And it washes and dries easier.

Manufacturers really need to stop putting these fixed EVA foam panels in protection.
  • 1 0
 I've been looking at these, but it seems like anywhere I'd wear a back protector, I'd also want shower and elbow protection. Then I'm at the point where I'm looking a giant suit of armor, and then I'd rather just go without.
  • 4 0
 Been in the same boat for 20 years Dario. I finally gave up and got Lasik last week!! It's amazing. I have to wait another week until I can start riding, but man am I excited. Messing with contacts and glasses can be downright dangerous when riding rough bike park trails.
  • 1 1
 Why are contacts dangerous?
  • 3 1
 @wburnes: It's not as bad as people think and just takes practice. It's kinda like when you see women putting on makeup and checking their phone while driving, which is totally safe.
  • 2 0
 I’ll second this, finally got lasik in March and it was the best decision I’ve made in a long time. I had a 4 week recovery stand down due to the type of lasik I had to get, but to have the freedom to ride without glasses or contacts or nap whenever I want.

@wburnes I’ve had a couple of situations riding where my non dominant contact lens fell out in rough and dusty terrain. Trying to make it down the mountain while essentially blind is terrifying
  • 4 0
 @wburnes: I have astigmatism, so contacts just wouldn't sit perfectly in my eye, especially when they would get dry. Often I'd be riding, my contacts would dry up, I'd blink, and the contact would shift in my eye, making my vision super blurry. This would happen even with goggles, and was usually when going really fast. Two weeks ago I was riding about 25-30 miles per hour and it happened and I decided enough was enough. It was only a matter of time until I'd have a vision-related crash. I have tried glasses too, but they bounce around a lot, making it feel like looking at the trail through an hourglass that's moving in front of your face.

A lot of people don't have any of these issues with contacts or glasses, but I was just ready to move on. Really excited to see (pun intended) how it goes
  • 1 1
 @colemanb: Have you ever tried a prescription lens insert for goggles?

www.gogglesnmore.com/universal-glasses-insert-for-ski-goggles
  • 2 0
 @wburnes: I was going to try that, but then I realized I'd have to wear them all the time. Riding on a chairlift, going to a restaurant, etc. Or have to keep the glasses in a pocket and swap them out every time I take the goggles off...
  • 1 0
 @colemanb: I have an astigmatism as well and used to have the same problem as you. I now use dailies - no issues at all, maybe because they are thinner? Maybe worth a try.
  • 2 0
 @b1001: Yeah I tried dailies and monthlies. Monthlies were actually better for me, but still not perfect. But hey my eyes are lazered now so no need!
  • 1 0
 @the-other-skier: So glad to hear it man!! Has it helped with your riding? Like do you feel more confident riding now?
  • 1 0
 Lasik changed my life 25 years ago when it was not as commonplace as now. Over the years my eyesight has started to fade a bit so I wear a weak prescription. Like Dario I've gotten some cheap glasses with the biggest frames I can find. I add some Sugru on the temples and nose to add a little grip.
  • 1 0
 I got Lasik last November and it was an absolute life changer for me as well. I just had my first park day last weekend with no contacts and no glasses and it was wonderful. No more contacts drying up or shifting on chattery runs, no glasses fogging up, nothing.
  • 3 0
 @colemanb: Same issues with astigmatism contacts here, they just never stay still. I think it has to do with the weighted bottom, they seem to rotate with every head movement. These glasses I wear have serious arm hooks, so they stay put.
I'll go under the laser knife eventually, but I'm a bit too young yet.
  • 3 0
 @dariodigiulio: Ah the hooks. That's a smart idea. I never made it that far, that seems like a solid solution.
  • 3 0
 @colemanb: They've been tested in some pretty rowdy mosh pits, so I think they're staying put on trail.
  • 2 0
 Glad to see all the Lasik feedback here. I have a somewhat mild prescription w/ astigmatism and just wear prescription Oakley frames. They worked under my hockey helmet and and work fine on the trails, but man would it be nice to not worry about any of that and just use regular glasses/goggles. Maybe one day I'll go for it myself.
  • 2 0
 I had Lasik ten years ago and can't really recommend it. I saw halos around lights for years, have very dry eyes, now need glasses again, and contacts don't fit properly like they did before. When I first got it I thought it was great, but now I think I would be better off if I had just stuck to glasses.
  • 1 0
 @wburnes: I have the goggle insert for. YouZee and I love it.

It’s worked in several pars of goggles so far, so I believe it’s universal or damn close.

I have no options for surgery to fix my eyesight and have never worn contacts
  • 6 0
 Read somewhere that the highest % of mtb injuries the ER sees are elbows. Don't know if this is true, but seeems like the least worn piece of protection.
  • 2 0
 I'm sure Whistler's emergency room could tell you. A lot of protective wear manufacturers could benefit from the status they have. It makes sense that the elbows are forearms are the most injured. My arms are scared
  • 8 0
 I started wearing elbow pads more after last crash shredded bought my forearms and elbows. I think elbow pads have room for improvement though. They either slide down or have to fit super tight around biceps.
  • 3 0
 @wutamclan: get ones that are built into a jersey, they dont slide at all and arent tight
  • 1 0
 Partly because riding kit do not play nicely with them. Long sleeve jerseys and jackets are too narrow for most pads. That's why my favorite kit is a 3/4 yersey and a cheap jacket with sleeves cut to 3/4. Would love riding kit which accommodate to elbow pads better. For some reason they are not cool.
  • 1 0
 @wutamclan: I've liked my Leatt 3DF 6.0 elbow guards. Of course, nothing is perfect, but they're the best I've tried to date. Might be worth a look!
  • 6 0
 This data exists, at least for a year (2009) at Whistler:

www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1080603212000154?casa_token=kI5z9b0gckcAAAAA:pH_H89G5Sg7MfqaIQHSzRiRBNlAEI8YPle52vFkQk3sDq9cL-3hrgTaNWvAsNES0ZFKlNoIiPC0

Spoiler, 10x more elbow injuries than knee injuries (although I suppose could be survivorship bias from way more people wearing knee rather than elbow protection)
  • 2 0
 @justridingalong1:
And one of the other things is that elbows have lots of small, thin sections that fracture easily, and heal poorly.

Since I don’t pedal with my arms, the only downside to elbow pads is that they are warmer than not wearing any.

So I got some vented ones,
  • 3 0
 @nedersotan: totally. I’m an orthopaedic surgeon and broken elbows are often quite a nasty injury with a very complicated surgery.

Besides the fracture risk it’s also just a common place to get annoying cuts and bruises. I wear pads every ride
  • 3 0
 I've been in whistlers emergency room a couple of times with elbow injuries, but I can't bring myself to wear elbow pads. None of the ones I've bought, and it's been a few, are comfy and stay in place. I've roadie arms and they're either way too tight or slip down my arms as I'm riding.
  • 2 0
 @justridingalong1: I’ve seen first hand. My buddy decided to do an elbow drop on a rock garden. He ended up dislocating his elbow and fracturing two bones. Had surgery to add metal to bone. Off bike time is over 6 months!
  • 1 0
 We wear them, but they're not comfortable and don't play nicely with long sleeves. I await the day when better designs come out.
  • 1 0
 @kingtut87: I wear fuse delta elbow guards and while they are a bit warm they don’t slip at all actually and offer tons of protection
  • 1 2
 That's because they don't make adult size elbow pads.
  • 2 0
 @justridingalong1: Yup, I had to get stiches on a 3cm long cut, because no way would it close on its own. I now wear pads all the time too
  • 3 0
 I broke my elbow in the bike park over ten years ago now. It was in too many pieces to repair so the joint was replaced with a metal prosthetic. It is my understanding that many serious elbow injuries are from landing hands first with the arms outstretched and the impact fractures the elbow. Superman stance if you will. Anyways that was the case for me. Way overshot the landing bounced off the bike and landed arms outstretched. In this scenario pads would do nothing. Having said that please do wear all the pads that you feel comfortable wearing fashion be damned.

As an aside huge shoutout to the Canadian medical system. Had my crash up at whistler on a holiday long weekend. Was in the operating room 6am Monday morning in Vancouver having my elbow replaced by an apparently world renowned elbow surgeon. Couple months off the bike while i rehabbed. 10 years later I am riding 4-5 day’s week and going almost as hard as I ever did. Elbow is at about 95% functionality. Also huge shout out the Canadian taxpayer for covering the bill. I think all told I payed $35 for upgraded arm sling. And my apologies for the long winded story if you made it this far.
  • 1 0
 @antihero: Yes you definitely can break your elbow in this way (fall onto outstretched hand). And you're correct that in this setting pads won't help. But direct impact to the elbow is a very common way to break the elbow and often results in an even more complex fracture that is hard to fix, so pads can still be quite useful.
  • 3 0
 @dariodigiulio perhaps an article on people with prescription glasses and the options available? I know 100% do an over the glasses goggle (OTG) that sort of works.

I have a set of prescription Oakleys Flak XL's which are great for vision, but my god.. it looks like I'm dealing cheap speed out of a truck stop. They are embarrassing.

I'd love to see a story on Prescription riding glasses/goggles. Cheers.
  • 3 0
 Noted! I've been curious about the options, might start exploring the weird and wild world of speed specs.
  • 2 0
 Check out SportRx, they do great prescription lenses in basically any frame. Oakley is terrible to deal with (sent me a pair of scratched brand new glasses and wouldn't replace, then on a different pair sent me two different pairs with rattling lenses).

The hero dirt lens from sportrx is like a trail prizm lens with transition from lighter in the trees to darker when out in the sun. I recently got their in house frames with these lenses and they are incredible.

I tried some over the glasses goggles and they are so uncomfortable. As annoying as contacts are, seems like the only option for goggles.
  • 6 1
 I can’t believe how much people are paying for goggles. Are they really that much better than $25 100% Strata 2’s?
  • 8 0
 I thought this for years. Just picked up a pair of LEATT 4.5s for $70 last week due to needing one now and they were the only thing the bike shop had. Heaps better. I was actually shocked at how much better they were at not fogging and how clear the lenses were even in mud and pouring rain compared to my $30 smiths and $25 100%. I can see why people spend the money now.
  • 1 0
 And which goggles don't mist up when it rains? I am sick of seeing pros take out their lenses when the weather gets wet. It cant be all of them, can it?
  • 1 0
 @minesatusker: I am using the loose riders google for around four or five years now (still the original frame but bought new lenses once, but i have a backup already at home since the padding is pretty worn out by now) and tbh im not planning on switching. Maybe its because i wear glasses that i dont get so much fog, but compared to my buddys who sometimes need to put on their googles 3 seconds before dropping in or else they fog up, I rarely have issues with it. Maybe they are worth a shot for you?
  • 2 1
 @phantommtb: on the flip side, I can't tell the difference between a $30 100% and a $300 Smith goggle
  • 1 2
 I can answer this from the ski/snowboard world. If you have the strap with the giant Oakley "O" on the side, everyone knows you dropped serious money on the goggles and immediately knows you're faster and cooler than them. So yes, better even if they don't objectively perform better.
  • 2 0
 As an owner of a decent set of Leatt's who thought it would be a good idea to buy a couple of already cheap, then heavily discounted 100%'s for spares I can confirm that yes, there are different grades of quality!
  • 2 0
 I started wearing a chest protector after some broken ribs on a trail ride. It wouldn't have helped, as I don't typically wear much armor on local rides, so I roll the dice. However, in a park setting it seems silly to not wear it, along with a fullface, knee and elbow pads. Nothing like doing 25 mph and making the slightest of mistakes and getting helicoptered out.
  • 2 0
 Regarding eye protection for glasses wearing people:
For normal riding, I use some Adidas cycling glasses which are corrected with tint-changing lenses. I use them also as normal sun shades because they tint from cat. 0 (clear) to cat. 3 (highest category that is still allowed to use for driving here in Switzerland).
If i ride the bike park i use an older model Smith OTG snow goggle over the glasses. Don't know the actual model.
Newer models don't give the same amount of space for glasses. It works well and with the cycling glasses underneath it is not a problem in a crash because the whole thing is pretty stable with a well fitting helmet. The glasses can snap off each part without damage.
Only downside is mostly in winter that the glasses might fog up when standing still. So i always take the goggles up as soon as i stand. When i start riding again with the skis, i just start to ski and if i am up to speed i put them down. This way they don't fog up. In the summer in the bike it's usually not a problem.

Oh, and clean glasses / goggles fog up less. So just keep them clean. Always a good idea to bring a small microfibre cloth and a cleaning spray for the breaks.
  • 1 0
 Have you ever tried a prescription lens insert for goggles?

www.gogglesnmore.com/universal-glasses-insert-for-ski-goggles
  • 2 0
 @wburnes: That's what I have from SportRX and it's great.
  • 2 0
 Not an elbow pad in sight. I know they aren't on trend anymore and they weren't for me either but I found out the hard way that your elbows are likely one of the first things to contact the dirty pointy stuff. Usually it's just a few scrapes but one time for me it meant surgery, and 7 days in hospital with a nasty infection and months off the bike.
  • 1 0
 I’m one of the uncool people who wears elbow pads but not knee pads lol
  • 5 0
 I think the editors just wanted to have an ootd show off
  • 2 0
 Another slow news day.
  • 2 0
 Maybe they wanted a User Engagement bump. Riding kit always attracts a crowd.
  • 1 0
 After a minor crash left my kid with a cut under her lip, I became a lot more aware of the variation in chinbar and facial protection between various helmets. A lot of that depends on fit. We tried about 8, and found a huge difference. A super pointy rock or stick will always get you, but some of them rotated down and even a basketball would still contact the face. So definitely make sure to try a bunch in, and check how much face protection you are getting.
  • 3 0
 Dario, buddy youzeeshop.com No reason to be wearing your pops safety glasses with a full face in this day and age. Wink Tell em Nerds On Dirt sent ya!
  • 1 0
 Does anyone have knee pads recommendations for the big boned riders out there (IE, fat), that have thicc thighs?

I picked up some RaceFace Ambush pads in XXL recently, but they fit a little small around the thigh. They work, but perhaps there is something that fits better.

I also have some POC VPD Air knee pads in XL (I think..), which fit great, but they have never stayed put on a ride. I constantly have to pull them up if there is any pedaling - they've definitely stretched out. They don't inspire much confidence and I'm not sure how much they'll actually protect my knees.
  • 1 0
 See how the larger sizes in Ion's K-Pact fit. I was largest sized for troy lee and RF, but only a large for Ion.
  • 1 0
 Some military ballistic goggles are designed to be OTG and work well over your glasses, some better than others. Smaller glasses fit great, whereas medium size frames you might have to cut a slight channel out on the sides of the foam, and larger glasses probably won't work. It's also a matter of how much the goggles rest on the edges of the full face helmet opening your using that also continues to the overall comfort of this setup. You can find them for cheap at military surplus stores
  • 1 0
 Have owned those Sam Hill knee pads and really liked them! Right up until I caught the back of them on a pedal pin which left a gigantic hole that my foot wanted to go through every time I put them on...after a short while the hole was so big that it stopped holding the pad tight to my knee leaving me with a blister. Contacted 7idp to see if I could buy replacement sleeves as there's nothing wrong with the pads....never heard back, so won't buy from them again.
  • 4 1
 Love this series. These editors ride so much so it’s nice to see what they choose for durability and performance.
  • 3 0
 Cool to see Leatt gaining terrain, it's still an underrated brand offering comfort and top quality as well as style
  • 1 0
 I wear that same Leatt chest protector as Henry in the bike park, I forgot it ONE time and had a huge high speed crash broke 3 ribs im pretty sure the guard would have certainly helped LOL.
  • 5 0
 what about @mikelevy
  • 1 0
 I'm nowhere near a chair lifted bike park so it's knee pads and a regular helmet for me, many people I know wear a full face , fair enough, but not for me for my regular riding.
  • 1 0
 Love least d30 body west, it has built in shoulder protection and well as soft flexible pads.
Fox moto style looks dope, however they runs short at least when u 6'+, so no stomach lower back protection
  • 1 0
 Military ballistic goggles work well over your glasses, some better than others. Smaller glasses fit great, medium size frames = might have to cut a slight divot on the sides of the foam, and larger glasses won't work.
  • 1 0
 Sorry didn't think this posted and couldn't delete after posting again, above
  • 1 0
 Personally, I'm so over looking cool instead of wearing protection. For me, it's full Stormtrooper mode every time I visit a bikepark. I look like a Joey and I don't even care.
  • 2 0
 Looks like that local kooks visor is in some desperate need of customization...
  • 3 0
 Kazimer: "nap aficionado". Wise man :-)
  • 5 3
 Now can we get an article on what the pro's wear? This is like picking at random from a lift line.
  • 9 0
 I dunno. The pro's will wear what they are sponsored to wear the majority of the time (and would likely not tell you if they preferred something else). The editors have access to lots of gear from testing and ride a ton, so it seems like good info to know what they choose.
  • 1 0
 @mtmc99: I'd like to see what guys like Nicholi and Isted wear when training and riding Darkfest sized stuff.
  • 1 0
 They wear whoever their sponsors are...
  • 1 0
 @mkul7r4: No shit. But what are they wearing. Alpinestars has 41 different styles of chest protectors.
  • 1 0
 @chriskneeland: id bet money you are closer to a pinkbike editors level of riding than nicholi.
  • 1 1
 @RonSauce: So if someone didn't want to be, don't you think the first step would be to know everything someone like Nicholi or Isted is doing to protect themselves at that level of progression? Just a thought.
  • 1 0
 @chriskneeland: genuinely... no.
  • 1 1
 @RonSauce: Ya bud. Just send it. Find out the PB way. See you on fails.
  • 3 0
 +100pts for the safety squints
  • 2 0
 Thanks a lot everyone, you all guilted me into buying chest/back protection.
  • 1 0
 Full face and glasses ? this is really f*cked up combination, friend of mine had sever injuries because of that, since glasses in not protection gear for dh track.
  • 1 0
 Pressure suite, full face, neck brace, padded shorts, maybe even knee/shin combo. Not worth getting rekt when you can take the chairlift to skimp on padding.
  • 1 0
 For the skinny ones with longer upper body: Would you recommend the Baseframe Pro a size M for a tight fit but shorter back or a size L for slighty longer back protection?
  • 3 2
 Wait but everyone cool doesn't wear gloves or knee pad. What's next... helmet?
  • 1 0
 Those Fox vests are THE SHIZZ an that's coming from someone who hates wearing too many pads let alone body armour
  • 1 0
 love all the Roost guards....
  • 1 4
 Looks like everybody is pretty stoked on protective gear....Me too! But certainly not stoked on $500 helmets, $200-300 back protector, $150 goggles...and the list goes on. Oh, $6000 - $10000 bike.
Great job @pinkbike to advertise and make us buy shit. This is the best way to keep most people off of mountain biking. Everybody seem to have drank the kool aid.
  • 1 1
 Copying VItalMX?
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