First Look: DT Swiss Introduces New FR 541 Rim

Sep 13, 2022 at 12:09
by Dan Roberts  



From ten paces away you might not see the differences between DT Swiss' new FR 541 rim and a lot of the other ones in the brand's line up, or from other brands for that matter. Once you have them in your hands, it's still somewhat tricky to pick them out. It's black and round, right? So it may be easy to pass off all this fanfare for a new rim as marketing and angrily scroll down to the comments.

But the thing is, DT Swiss has a reputation as being the go-to company for all things wheel related. So when they release a new product, it's usually good to sit up and take note.
FR 541 Details
• Aluminium
• 29" & 27.5" diameters
• 28 or 32 hole
• Welded rim construction
• For use with PHR washers and nipples
• 30mm internal width
• 569g in 27.5", 606g in 29"
• €89.90, $150.90 US
dtswiss.com

DT Swiss FR 541 Rim Photo Kifcat Shaperideshoot
The new FR 541 takes DT Swiss' EX rim range as a base for the profile and adds material in some key areas, like the flange hook taper.
DT Swiss FR 541 Rim Photo Kifcat Shaperideshoot
It also removes some material from other rim areas, like the rim well.

Zooming further in, their existing downhill rim, the FR 560, is a damn good rim that still sees its fair share of action at the World Cups. But DT Swiss saw room for improvement in it.

However, for a very long time now, downhill racers have been using the company's EX 471 and especially EX 511 rims. The EX series of rims uses a slightly different rim profile to the FR 560, which allowed racers to play around with tire profile and support. It was also a lighter option than the FR 560, saving precious grams from a pretty important extremity on the bike. Rotational and unsprung mass are two areas that can have a profound effect on changing the way a bike rides.

But not everyone is a World Cup racer, and many a hobby rider who looked to the professionals to inform their buying decisions also took the EX 471 and 511 as their rim of choice for use on downhill bikes.

Strictly speaking though, the EX 471 and 511 aren't downhill rims. They're even listed under the Enduro section of the brand's website and many people looked past this in order to run the same components as Loic Bruni, Troy Brosnon and Vali Holl, perhaps ignoring the context that a World Cup team might have a few more spares on hand for when a rim gets damaged...

The EX 471 and 511 rims have been around for almost a decade now, and this has given DT Swiss a solid amount of experience to build on for the new rim development, with the new FR 541 using the EX 511's rim profile and PHR system as a base to build from, but with some small but important changes to improve in the three main areas of impact resistance, pinch flat resistance and weight.

DT Swiss FR 541
While the main dimensions of the rim are the same between the FR 541, FR 560 and EX 511, when you zoom in to the small details, the shape of the profiles are quite different.


IMPACT RESISTANCE

Rim denting is often the main cause for needing a new rim. Aluminum rims are great for bending rather than detonating under impact. But past a certain point it might compromise the tubeless seal with the tire, incur a pretty hefty flat spot or bend, or, even worse, crack.

Significant amounts of material, in the context of a rim, were added to the flange hook giving it a taper at the top. This angle, coming from the taper in the case of the FR 541, isn't a new concept, but it does align the rim shape better with the impacts coming into it. It also simply gives the rim more material to resist impacts in the first place.

More material was added to the belly of the profile, where the spokes exert their force. More material here bolsters the strength of the rim when the spokes are pulling hard during big energy impacts.

DT Swiss FR 541
A section view of the FR 541, in black, compared to the FR 560, in grey, shows the differences in rim profile as well as really highlights the flange hook design.


PINCH FLAT RESISTANCE

That flaring out of the rim's flange hooks also increases the contact patch between the rim and tire. When the tire is bottomed out on the rim, more area drops the risk of the tire pinch flatting, something that DT Swiss tested in collaboration with a leading tire brand. The result is a 17% increase in pinch flat resistance compared to the FR 560 rim.

The rim inner width follows the EX 511 at 30mm and sits right where rim widths have stabilised in recent years in conjunction with tire profile design.

DT Swiss FR 541 Rim Photo Kifcat Shaperideshoot
Side by side the EX 511, left, FR 560, centre, and FR 541, right.
DT Swiss FR 541 Rim Photo Kifcat Shaperideshoot
The FR 560, left, has a much more rounded belly compared to the FR 541, right, which takes its more pointed profile from the EX series of rims.


LIGHTER WEIGHT

While adding weight helped the strength, DT Swiss also managed to shave 30g out of the rim profile when comparing it to the FR 560. Making the rim well ever so slightly thinner. Imagine, fractions of millimetres on a section drawing translate to quite a few grams once you sweep that profile 360 degrees.

Joining the extrusion profile together is done by welding, which DT Swiss say is the most resistant process for aluminum wheels. And on all DT Swiss welded rims, it's nigh on impossible to spot the join if you don't know where to look.

Weight was also saved compared to the FR 560 by ditching the eyelets and moving over to the brand's PHR system in the nipples and washers that is already commonplace on the EX 511.


PHR WASHERS, NIPPLES & WHEEL BUILDING

Pro Head Reinforcement is a combination of rim, washer and spoke shape that increases the load bearing surface of the nipples, reduces localised stresses and acts as a ball joint to automatically align the nipples with the spoke, reducing the risk of spoke failure or the rim cracking.

In the way that the PHR system is a meeting of individual parts, the rim is only one part in the bigger system of the wheel. Quality wheel building is something that DT Swiss put a lot of emphasis on, with their focus on spoke tension. For DT Swiss, the key to a well built wheel that lasts is on building it as close as possible to the maximum given spoke tension, something that is even printed on the rim stickers, while keeping the deviation of tensions to a minimum.

The ability to tune the wheel characteristics then falls on things like the spoke geometry and lacing pattern rather than the spoke tension. Thinner spokes, for example, can give more flex in the system while still allowing the wheel to be built to a high tension, ensuring a good lifetime of the wheel.

Spoke tension is a can of worms sure to be opened in the comments, and hopefully something that we might dive deeper into in the not too distant future, if we can line up the lab time.

DT Swiss FR 541 Rim Photo Kifcat Shaperideshoot
DT Swiss FR 541 Rim Photo Kifcat Shaperideshoot

DT Swiss FR 541 Rim Photo Kifcat Shaperideshoot

DT Swiss FR 541 Rim Photo Kifcat Shaperideshoot
DT Swiss FR 541 Rim Photo Kifact Shaperideshoot

Small details like the rim stickers mean that the FR 541 has options for customization and keeping the rims looking fresh for their lifetime. The rims come with red decals out of the box, with gold, chrome and black options also available. That ability to take the rim stickers off might also come in handy for some of the competitor sponsored racers at World Cups who were spied running DT Swiss rims.

The new FR 541 is available immediately and is priced at €89.90 or $150.90 US.





In the way that the EX 511 has been the go-to rim for many a racer and hobby rider alike, the new FR 541 does have some big shoes to fill. But it might just be the one able to fill them.

We picked up a set of FR 541s laced to 240 hubs with slightly thinner Competition Race spokes at the World Championships in Les Gets. DT Swiss wheels out of the box are built extremely well and so it was only suitable that their wheel building wizard Sven built them to the same high standard that anyone buying a DT Swiss wheelset would get.

With Champery open well into fall and plenty more steep leaf surfing options open after that, we'll report back in a few months with a full review on the new FR 541 rim.

DT Swiss FR 541 Rim Photo Kifcat Shaperideshoot



233 Comments

  • 216 4
 I’d give a set to Bernard Kerr for some feedback. 90 foot gaps appear to be rather hard on wheels.
  • 23 0
 You came up short by several feet; Kerr went into another dimension on that one
  • 15 0
 @likeittacky: I’m gonna agree with that. You know how they say shoot for the moon? I think Kerr was the first person in history to actually hit it.
  • 15 2
 Reynolds Carbon doesn´t like his test methods.


Fanatik when they tested the new FR541:

www.youtube.com/watch?v=eSo4w3Kjyos
  • 2 0
 @JohSch: They definitely tested them.
  • 4 0
 @JohSch: the “tech” they tested on looks like the flow trails where I ride
  • 1 0
 Bernard Kerr broke a front wheel with his name on it, proud!
  • 122 9
 Way too cheap and old fashioned. It needs to be made of plastic and cost 10 times as much to be newsworthy.
  • 82 7
 Fair enough but just as a counter point to the carbon shade, I used to consistently ruin at least one alloy rim every year. I switched over to carbon 12 years ago and haven’t ruined a rim since. For example, We Are One rims cost 3.5 times as much as these, so if I keep them for 4 years, I’m coming out ahead, especially if I don’t have to rebuild my wheel in those years. They aren’t really any lighter, and I’m not convinced they ride all that different, but for me they’ve been much more durable and lower maintenance. I don’t see myself going back to alloy any time soon but maybe I need to try one of these newer rims?
  • 16 11
 @BiNARYBiKE: i feel like personally i smash into to many things for carbon to last longer
  • 40 2
 @BiNARYBiKE: counter point to your counter point rims have drastically improved since 12 years ago.
  • 14 4
 I used to be in the "Carbon rims don't make sense" camp. I was also going through at least one high quality alloy rim per season. Last season I switched over to WAO rims and have run them without issue since. I haven't even had to true my wheels. The warranty/crash replacement helped sell me on this idea, too. It's a value proposition, for sure. YMMV.
  • 11 2
 @BiNARYBiKE: Assuming you will stay on the same wheel size for 4 years which was not that easy in the last decade, first 27.5 then 29,now mullets, who knows what happens in the next 4 years. Having bought a pricey 27.5 wheelset in say 2018 I would feel quite pissed off in 2022 if I had to change the frame Wink
  • 9 2
 @BiNARYBiKE: And people overlook the fact that one hardly ever needs to adjust spoke tension on a well built carbon wheel. And how much is lost ride time worth to someone? I read about one bike riders (WTF?) who lose 2-3 weeks riding time (even if that is only 1-2 rides per week) because some component failed or blew up during normal use.
  • 14 8
 I've witnessed the guys I ride and race with crack carbon rims, especially at Windrock. That puts carbon on my nope list. I can't buy a "spare" rim like some of those guys. They swear by the carbon rims, but they're buying TWO at a time.

Then they send the split one in and rebuild the spare and have the warrantied rim as a back up and act like that's a valid answer to a problem. You can just as easily have 5 DT 511 rims as back ups and still spend less than a guy running the warranty gamut with carbon rims.

I'm lucky to have a guy build my rear recently that really knows heavy hitters and it makes all the difference if you listen to a legit pro wheel builder and build them up with the components he KNOWS work.

That being said, this new rim, if it has improved on the flairing of rims on impact, I'm all for it. Especially if it's coming in at a similar price to the 511.
  • 14 7
 @BiNARYBiKE: I was also carbon rim reluctant, typically I'd bend an "enduro" aluminum rim once or twice a year, got some We Are One Unions two years ago and have yet to damage a rim.

My carbon rims are as heavy as comparable aluminum rims, so it's not about weight savings, but they are more durable than aluminum and that's a win.
  • 13 4
 Most carbon wheels have a lifetime warranty. End of the discussion for me. I switched to carbon 5 years ago after breaking 3 alloy wheels in one summer and I’m never looking back. I’ve used my warranty three times, and it’s cost me a grand total of $60 in shipping. I spent hundreds that last summer alone replacing and rebuilding alloy wheels.
  • 5 3
 @BiNARYBiKE: exactly this. I destroy one alu rim every six months like clockwork. Even if not from a catastrophic impact, they just die a slow death of an impact here, an impact there, etc. One year in on WAO rims, no damage, perfectly true, spoke tension perfectly even. And I know I've had impacts.
  • 3 1
 @taskmgr: counter to your counter point Where's your evidence bro?
  • 7 1
 @BiNARYBiKE: I completely agree. I'm a pretty big rider at 220lbs and went through 4 rims (3 back, 1 front) in a season before turning to carbon. I basically spent as much money replacing rims as it cost me to buy the carbon set that year.

For my weight and rising style, carbon gives me way more support and I don't suffer from the harshness or stiffness that smaller riders do
  • 13 2
 Plug for Cushcore. I used to destroy rims every 3-6 months, carbon or aluminum, until I switched to Cushcore, and now I'm getting 2 years out of rims. Will never go back.
  • 2 3
 @your-pal-al: Just warrantied a rear WAO union rim after cracking it on a ride. Turnaround was super fast. Did have to pay $50.00 for shipping.
  • 10 0
 So with the warranty, carbon rims aren't really that expensive. It's just that if you buy one, you actually pay for two more and the manufacturer keeps them in store for you. Business model of Santa Cruz Reserve and a few more.
  • 9 0
 @BiNARYBiKE: I hear this a lot. As someone that does NOT smash alloy rims, I cracked my first ever carbon rear wheel within 6 months of ownership on a not-so-big square edge. Really the only way to tell is if there was industry data that looked at the failure rates of each rim. But the bottom line is ride what you like. Don't worry about what other people say. There's plenty of market share carbon and alloy to live together in harmony. Bike companies will take our money no matter what material the parts are made of.
  • 1 2
 @BiNARYBiKE: 100% agree dude. I’ve gone alloy, alloy, carbon, alloy, carbon in my last 5 wheels and sure enough destroyed all my alloy wheels and the carbons have been bomb proof. Granted like some of the comments above I’m a heavy Clydesdale of a rider so I put a lot of force into my bike and it’s quite noticeable how much more support I get when I push a carbon wheel into a corner or in reduced deflection in a rock garden than my aluminum wheels in the past. Add in that I’m not blowing spokes all the time bc of the wheel flex and never really have to true the wheels and the decision is an easy one. Fwiw though if you have carbon wheels then run inserts bc cmon protect that investment.
  • 5 4
 @foggnm: Yeah, carbon might work perfectly for some, while not for others. For me even with a lifetime waranty carbon is risky, since in the best case scenario you loose time to get a new rim and have a wheel built. It is true that alu rims dent, loose tension and you need to take more care, or do you really? I have recently dented a rim badly (even though riding with cush core), it looked like it was done, almost folded, but a few minutes with vice and it works, it's not perfectly true and will never be, but I just give a sh*t, it works, its spins and is like 2mm off. A new rim is waiting patiently for it's turn, paid $60 for it (DT e532) Who said your wheels must be perfectly true or have a perfect tension all the time.
  • 4 1
 Also. Just wanted to park an additional comment that I WAS going to get WAO which I’ve heard nothing but great things about but went with Cascade Racing Designs which is a local component brand here in Bellingham and I’m stoked I did. Excellent wheels. Im 240lbs and certainly put some force into the bike and these wheels have been flawless. If you’re in the market for something different worth giving them a look.
  • 4 2
 @BiNARYBiKE: I'm a lightweight guy so I might have a slightly different perspective on rims. But I look at it the other way around. Those WAO's are 4 times as expensive, so I could instead buy four sets of FR560's. But four sets of FR560's are going to last me literally forever.
  • 12 0
 To everyone comparing "better" carbon rims (apparently lots of WAO?) to "aluminium rims" (apparently bad ones?), which al rims have you broken?
I'm genuinely curious, because despite this being a DT Swiss rim article, I haven't read once "carbon rim > DT al rim". I probably would consider a brand like WAO, if only I ever broke my DT Swiss.

Sorry yes, kind of a DT fanboy... I broke a cheap E1900 rim (non welded E532 I think), invested 70€ for a ex471 with same ERD, laced it myself (quite poorly I'm sure), and haven't even checked spoke tension after 80 park days in the Alps (rear wheel, I'm 95kg).
In my books, that's a miracle
  • 1 1
 Oh and the 28 spoke variety (so I'm also skeptical about 32-36 spoke necessity except on heavy ebikes and tandems)
  • 1 0
 @bronson2point1: and labor to re lace it, spokes and hardware
  • 2 2
 @BiNARYBiKE: it all depends on the mode of failure. If, like me, you batter your wheels into submission through repeated bad line choices, low skill levels and living in rocky terrain, but never actually taco a wheel, carbon makes a lot of sense, because its plastic deformation threshold is a lot higher, I.e. It can flex instead of bend. If you have zero problems with wheels until the day it's a banana, carbon will probably cost you more if that's a regular occurance, because it's overall failure threshold isn't too dissimilar (obviously this all relies on well made carbon, strong enough rims in either material, spoke tensions being correct etc etc)
  • 2 3
 @Muscovir: Carbon rims aren't just for Clyde's. I weigh less than 150 lbs and my aluminum wheels are always severely dented within a handful of rides. Cushcore, DD tires, 25-27psi.
  • 3 12
flag sanchofula (Sep 14, 2022 at 16:30) (Below Threshold)
 @nurseben; Why would anyone downvote my comment?

Four people downvoted me, so really, it can't be about the comment, must be about the person.

This ^ is why the upvote/downvote system doesn't work, people just vote based on who's posting.

STOOPID!
  • 6 0
 @Uuno: yeah I completely agree. I don’t see why to get carbon wheels vs good alloy wheels (like the DT Swiss EX1700, or better).
  • 3 0
 @Uuno: 28 spoke wheels feel like wet noodles to me. I'm also 95kg. 32 is the sweet spot.
  • 3 6
 @TEAM-ROBOT: i find cushcore to do jack shit, ive destoryed 2 rims in 2 months with cushcore pro and gotten 1 flat from a spoke poking through the rim tape
  • 2 0
 @TEAM-ROBOT:
Agree, CC is pretty great but not fool proof. I cracked new carbon rim (30/35mm) with CC and 2-ply tire with 29 psi on a backcountry summer riding zone that I pretty much have ridden it about the same way over the years. So CC not rim crack resistant for sure
  • 2 1
 @KenaiRowanOge: Cushcore and other rim protector can accelerate rim cracks in the spoke/nipple interface. That´s why DT is making this new rim with more material I think.
If you go fast and ride hard,a DT EX511 would crack in some cases really fast.
1 year ago I build a new custom wheelset and they recommend me DT FR560 just cos the rim has eyelets and more material around the spokes. The owner of the business is a very honest guy and I had to argue with him to get EX 511 cos I was good to ride my bike 1 year later of ACL surgery and would not ride 100% for 2 years at least.
  • 4 0
 @SickEdit: yeah imagine going for race weekend or to Alps for a week and crack a carbon rim... yes you will get a replacement, couple weeks later. Alloy rims are so cheap that you can take a spare one or even a spare wheel
  • 1 4
 @ciechan: ummm, you can always bring a spare wheel, I carry one when I ride away from home.

When I’ve ruined an aluminum rim; averaging once a year, it’s almost always away from home, and it’s rarely rideable afterwards.

In two seasons of hard riding I have not had a wheel failure with We Are One Unions. That’s two years without a failed rim, typically I’d have ruined at least two rims.

So I’m questioning your logic.
  • 1 0
 @Uuno: Are E1700 rims better to resist dents than E1900 wheels? Most problems with dents I have had with flow mk3 rims.
  • 4 2
 @KenaiRowanOge: FYi...pro DH teams run Gorilla tape down in the spoke channel to keep spokes from punching through and then regular rim tape on top of it for air seal.
  • 1 2
 So do we all agree that if you're running carbon rims, when you damage your rim...you're either spending time, effort, money out of your day to ship back the defective one and waiting and not riding while your new rim has to be shipped (hopefully carbon is in stock in your spoke count and width that week)...

OR...you bought a 2nd carbon rim as a backup and are using it....OR...you spent even more money on a backup alloy wheel (and are basically the Tesla driver in the group).
  • 1 0
 @blowmyfuse: shit, thanks for this info.
  • 1 0
 @KenaiRowanOge: Yeah, just don't do BOTH the full width of the internal rim width. From what I understand, if you use this technique, you run the Gorilla Tape down in the channel but leave it off the flat portion so that when you do the regular rim tape, it has that smooth metal surface to adhere to.

Everything I've got currently has Gorilla Tape. The only rim I did with only rim tape...shocker. A lovely perfect circle got popped right through it by a spoke.

If you don't have Gorilla Tape, I was advised you can double wrap rim tape. But that can get expensive quick.
  • 1 0
 @Uuno: how about heavy riders?
  • 1 0
 "That ability to take the rim stickers off might also come in handy for some of the competitor sponsored racers at World Cups who were spied running DT Swiss rims." Is that a jab at Enve who sponsors Pierron? He and Daprela have been running unbranded aluminum rims since Daprela exploded his Enve carbon wheel last year.
  • 62 4
 Obviously no real changes. It's black and round so I am just skipping to the comments to complain
  • 27 2
 Question to all those 'I destroy 1,2,3,n rims a year' riders ?

How do you even do this ?

I've still got my yellow deemax wheels from 2018 on my v10...
And according to strava I don't ride that slow (Not even on local trails but also on well known and ridden ones like many portes du soleil trails)
OK I destroyed an OEM rim from commençal, but riding lourdes WC with a trailbike isn't a fair comparison
  • 5 11
flag Fearsomemnt (Sep 14, 2022 at 11:34) (Below Threshold)
 How often do you ride? If you ride just weekend sure but 3-4 times on double blacks a week will get you there quick
  • 14 11
 Dude-you live in Germany, land of loam. For folks in Spain, Italy or across the inland Rockies of North America, trails are made of or studded with rock. Even sandstone can wreck a rim, but a solid hit on granite or limestone will kill a rim, even with a beefy tire and an insert.

Even if you don't huck on this kind of terrain, you drop your heels and open the brakes through loose rock gardens and sometimes a rim dies.

Ride harder/faster on rockier terrain and you'll join the club........
  • 10 1
 Like others have said, I live in the Rocky Mountains. Our trails here have tons of square edge rocks that love to break rims. I haven't had a puncture, flat, or cut tire in years, but I'm on my sixth rim (2 aluminum, 4 carbon) in the last three seasons. Typical setup is 29psi (2bar) in a 29x2.5" DD rear tire with Cushcore Pro at 215lb (97kg) riding weight. I bump that pressure and casing up a bit when I go to the bike park.
  • 9 3
 Been riding bikes for 15 years and haven't had a complete rim failure. I'll wait for the comments that I must have just ridden once in 15 years and it was on a sandy beach. Maybe a watch of Cathro line choice might save some of these rims...
  • 2 5
 Ride faster, go harder, take chances.
  • 3 1
 @Shanc: more or less the same. I think I’m at one which was a first gen ENVE. The thing that is nice about carbon is generally no maintenance required…they seem to always stay true.
  • 2 0
 @Shanc: Naah. You rode a paved path to the coffee shop. Made sure you shined up your bike with your fancy Muc-Off detailing kit when you got home.
  • 1 0
 @blensen: You say it, +4. I say it, +5-7.
  • 1 0
 Hehehehe come to ride around Madrid and you would realize very quick how people destroy rims.
I weight 64 kg and had a good record of broken rims and loose spokes. Now with tire inserts and much better tires is not an issue any more.
Last day in the bikepark was like war for tires and rims,people walking flat bikes left&right,so good tire choice is still key to me.
  • 5 1
 I agree. I find that rims last years of riding 2 or 3 times a week riding rocky trails. I sometimes think these folk would be better off spending their money learning how to ride light than on lots of new wheels.
  • 4 1
 Because we all ride like Fanatik when they tested the new FR541

www.youtube.com/watch?v=eSo4w3Kjyos
  • 1 0
 @JohSch: that´s the WC test,ride the rim full gas till the finish line.
  • 2 3
 @CM999: when you walk the tech moves the rims don’t get dented….
  • 7 0
 The main reason riders destroy wheels is low tire pressure. Most people don't like hearing this though. But if there isn't a rim that is supposed to hit rocks. Now, its a game of compromise between grip, comfort and potential damage that some of us aren't great at. Many riders feel comforted in riding very low pressures, damaging rims and complaining about their strength because they're looking at what the pros ride during a race run.
  • 1 1
 @Porkybob:
Not the case for me. My rear never sees south of 28psi. 28-30psi being the go to dependent upon tire and CuShCore or not. Have cracked about 6 carbon rims or varying widths and weights. Many dented Alu rims, even cracked Alu rim at nipple interface. Mostly a trail rider here. Not always the low tire pressure case as I high pressures have always been my jam as long as tire isn’t bouncing off everything or slipping out too easily. Psi is easy escape goat
  • 1 0
 I live in the land of trail volunteer clubs. They think it's awesome to take trail dozers down the length of the trail, then embed rocks in the trail in sections to "dry it out" or elevate it or whatever the reason to "rock armour".

It typically results in the dirt washing off the leading edge of their rock pile so you get to curb stomp your rim upon entry.

And at some point in their rock armour, there is at least one shifted rock that stands up like the blade of an axe pointing right at your rim. So you get to curb stomp your rim on entry and then bunny hop it right into an axe blade as maneuver #2. Beer
  • 2 0
 @blensen:
More air??? I always wonder why ppl run such low psi, then get wheel damage. I’m 160lbs and run 32-34psi in the rear on DH casings, my wheel damage is typically eyelets cracking and pulling through.
  • 1 1
 @Porkybob: exactly. I'm a very light rider, below 70kg kitted. If I go to places like Finale that are very harsh on tires and wheels, I put on DH casing tires and run the back tire at 2 bars. I had some dents but never something that destroyed the rim and made a tubeless setup impossible. And I don't ride slowly. Just run proper pressure, casing and if you are heavy even inserts. Maybe also unweight the bike a little when hitting the biggest square edges.
  • 17 0
 Would love to see a high-end alloy wheel shootout. EX511's vs FR541's vs Spank 350/359 Vibrocores vs Spank Spike 33's vs Hope Fortus 30 vs ???
  • 11 0
 Err Hope Fortus in the high end shootout….
  • 5 3
 If ever decided to go back I would go for spank vibrocore, Stan’s flow EX, or crank brothers aluminum. Insert whatever rim the rampage pros use.

But I think Kyle Strait has been rocking the Stans Flow rim for several years. I haven’t seen a catastrophic failure for him. And are aesthetically pleasing.
  • 3 5
 350 hubs are much better than Hopes or Spanks. Less drag, more durable, pretty fast engagement with a faster set of driver rings.
  • 5 2
 @kroozctrl: Stan's rims are made of the softest cheese on the market.
  • 1 0
 @Danmcdan: Haha, okay maybe a more "not total crap" shootout... I don't have much experience with hope, didn't realize their wheels had a bad rep, only heard good things thus far. I've been called out!
  • 2 0
 @kroozctrl: I've had great luck with the Spank 350/359 range, absolute night and day durability difference from the stock synchros/wtb wheels my bikes came with, and a little more compliant ride too, although its real subtle. Only caveat I've had is the spokes are prone to loosening, but I much prefer that to denting or cracking. Also the new hex drive hub has been great so far.

My friend is currently on the DT Swiss FR560, and he has killed two carbon reserve wheels, and a carbon DT swiss rim as well in the last couple years. Real curious to see how these hold up under him, so far so good.
  • 14 0
 Looks like a winner-iterative improvements to the best alloy rims out there (I’d say the best rims out there outright).

Bonus kudos for DT sticking to the same ERD. For those of us who have to replace a wheel every year or two that makes life waaaay easier.

Wish other component makers worked that way as well.
  • 7 0
 @wyorider: On DT Swiss website, it says the EX511 has and ERD of 601mm. The FR541 has a ERD of 603mm. Not quite the same. You can probably use the same spokes, but they also may be too short.
  • 7 0
 @fastnrowdyco: Within 2mm of ERD is close enough to lace over. Especially with spokes that have already been stressed/tensioned once before.
  • 16 0
 Clean, reliable, inexpensive what else would you want
  • 16 0
 Ha, In stock would be nice. But agreed, nothing else comes close really.
  • 14 0
 Dan, maybe I missed it, but from what you understand, is this meant to replace the EX 511? The differences are so subtle.
  • 4 0
 Curious about this too. Big fan of DT products.
  • 13 0
 I read it as replacing the FR 560, however given the similarities and the minimal weight differences (9 and 16g claimed respectively) over the EX 511 it could probably replace that rim as well. Given the popularity of the 511 it likely wouldn't go anywhere for a while however.
  • 5 0
 @tkrug: definitely a replacement to the FR560. Bringing the FR rim series into the non eyelet, phr washer era of dt rims.
I’ve been running HX531 on the dh bike with good success. It’s basically between the new FR and the ex511. Thicker spoke bed to allow for higher overall wheel load capacity or “strength”. Love the idea of the new rim. Still wish they’d go to slightly asym on the spokes though. A little offset goes a long way in getting even spoke tension on either side of the wheel, which I personally believe leads to a wheel holding consistent tension longer, so less touch ups needed. Assym lacing only balances it so much. And on the front wheel at least, there’s more benefit to running symmetrical lacing than not imo.
Before someone says it, yes, I'm aware Newmen makes similar rims and use offset. DT is way easier for me to get personally.
  • 2 0
 @mountainyj: Newmen rims are not offset.
  • 1 0
 @Saether: just checked their site again. Not sure why I remembered them being asym. May have been another wheel manufacture. Newmen is the only other alloy wheel I recall being pretty comparable in design and weight to dtswiss.
  • 13 2
 Possibly an unpopular opinion but I wish more manufacturers would offer 36h drilling. For gram-counters and sponsored athletes, breaking a spoke is a non-issue; but I think most normal riders value durability above all else.
  • 9 3
 At 195# I haven't found a reason to go beyond 32 hole 3cross for a while. I thought 36 hole was for my overweight dad and tandem bikes.
  • 5 3
 Ya, weigh the same, and 28 F 32 R is great to give your wheels just the right compliance. Since I stopped bargain hunting for nipples/spokes/used wheelsets in general, I don't break spokes anymore. Even with 29 I worry that 36 would be too stiff.
  • 3 0
 @peterknightuk from what I've heard, breaking spokes is a non issue... At least it is has been for me.
Curious to know, what spokes/wheels have been unreliable in your experience?


Risk of breaking a spoke is tenfold when some of them are not tensioned enough, can become un strained at times, loosen up, then let some of the neighbors do additional work...
Dt Swiss seems to keep the tension so well that even on 28s nothing moves
  • 1 0
 Caveat I have broken spokes when a stick got caught in them and every so often if I have a big crash.
  • 2 0
 DT Swiss does makes some 36h rims that are marketed as Ebike rims.
  • 6 0
 I'd be happy seeing 32h rims again. 28h are pretty strong with modern spokes and rims, but 4 more spokes add almost no weight and a lot more security if a spoke (or 3) fails out on a long ride. Common problem? No.

Rare but inconvenient problem? Yes.
  • 1 2
 @hamncheez: More spokes you can run the spoke tension softer. It's how road pros used to run their spring classics wheels. Makes for a notably smoother ride-and as long as the spokes are tight enough, still hella strong.
  • 1 0
 @Uuno: These days it's a rare issue, but not a non-issue. It still occurs if you're unlucky and get a rock or stick in the spokes or on high mileage wheels that have been ridden hard.
  • 2 0
 @wyorider: No it doesn't.
  • 5 0
 @wyorider: broken spokes - more like pretty frequently, when wheels are poorly built and not properly pre-stressed/stress-relieved.

And most wheels are poorly built, with no real pre-stress/stress-relief routine.

Also, lower tension is an absolutely terrible way to achieve a softer ride feel. "Tight-enough" and over tensioned is a pretty narrow window, and if you are inside of it, difference in tension makes practically no difference to the feel of a wheel. If you want softer wheel feel, then play with spoke gauge/thickness and number of spokes.
  • 1 0
 Over my 20ish years of mountain biking I've suffered around 4-5 broken spokes on both 32h and 36h rims (always at the j-bend). I'm 85kg and whilst I like to get a wriggle on, I'm not a particular aggressive rider. I'm happy to carry around an extra 4 spokes if that either reduces the chances of a broken spoke or minimises the consequences of a broken spoke. My most recent spoke breakage was on a weekend away last month and because it was on a 36h wheel it made almost no difference to the true of the wheel and I was able to confidentiality ride for the rest of the trip. To me, it's an easy decision to go with 36h wheels.
  • 1 1
 @privateer-wheels: I’ve had “factory” wheels break spokes. I’ve had wheels I’ve built break spokes-and I’m through when I lace ‘em up.

Enough fatigue cycling plus some rim hits plus the odd object flicking into a wheel does it.

It’s not common-it takes some miles or a few solid rim hits, but it does still happen even on the best built wheels.
  • 2 0
 @wyorider: certainly it CAN happen. That said, I see very very few people return with broken spokes from wheels I build. In the last 5 years I've built hundred of wheels, and I have had 0 instances of broken spokes from fatigue cycling and impacts. Things flicking into a wheel, that's obviously uncontrollable.

I expect factory wheelsets to break more spokes, by orders of magnitude, as they are usually poorly tensioned and not stress relieved, as mentioned previously.

I also see some breakage from some carbon rim manufacturers rounding spokes down and leaving too many threads not engaged in a double square.nipple.
  • 1 0
 @privateer-wheels: yeah. The quality of wheel components is light years better than if was 35-40 years ago.

I haven’t had a spoke break in a while on a wheel that didn’t have some dents in the rim-but plenty of folks ride their dented rims until they won’t seal tubeless anymore.

That’s when I relace a wheel with a fresh rim.
  • 2 0
 @wyorider: I've got a guy dropping na wheel off in the coming week, where his Sapim CX-Rays are breaking off one by one at the elbow. It's a big name carbon brand factory build. Fantastic spokes, some will tell you the best. But the quality of the spoke doesn't matter worth a crap if the wheel is poorly built. Uneven tension, low tension, and your spokes will not come close to their potential. They will fatigue out fast.
  • 2 0
 @privateer-wheels: It's good to hear other wheel builders pipe up about this. The whole "low spoke tensions for compliant wheels" things really pisses me off. Some wheel manufacturers even recommend it! Whenever I've pressed them for data on how spoke tension effects wheel stiffness, they VERY quickly stop talking about tensions and start talking about spoke count and thickness. They continue using the low tension idea in their marketing though...
  • 5 0
 @gabriel-mission9: funny, I was chatting with an ex enve engineer about this last night. I'm in Bend currently meeting with some product development and business development folks, working on a project. We got to chatting about bearing bores and how really high tension can actually create slop in bearing bores - talking like, 150 kgf. Enve was doing this "for stiffness" when they first came out, and I think he kind of eye rolled while making the comments (because it was marketing BS). I asked if they did the testing and he actually said they did, and conceited that once you get to a reasonable tension where things aren't going slack, adding tension makes no meaningful difference to stiffness. Messing with spoke tension to create more compliance is BS. Too high or too low just causes issues with hubs, rims, and spokes themselves.
  • 1 0
 @privateer-wheels: Exactly!! I've done the maths (but not the real world testing sadly) and concluded that as long as the spokes don't go fully slack under impact, then spoke tension can't effect wheel stiffness in any meaningful way. It's good to hear that Enve have tested this empirically and seem to agree with me. You've actually brightened my day a little there, haha.
  • 1 0
 And yeah I've experienced the bearing slop you speak of. Used to work in a BMX shop many moons ago, and once watched another tech build a burly rim onto a Profile hub and do the nipples up until the whole wheel was creaking (I did question this, but BMXers will do what BMXers will do....) He put the wheel on its side, and the hub bearing just fell straight out.

If anything I was more impressed than I was dismayed...
  • 1 0
 @privateer-wheels: I appreciate this might be one of those "how long is a piece of string" questions, but what do you shoot for tension-wise on a typical MTB wheel build? (kgf)
  • 13 0
 I need better glasses.
  • 10 5
 My only issue with my EX511 rims is that they cut through tires too easily. I can pinch flat a 60tpi EXO+ casing tire with a Tannus insert on those with minimal effort, while at the same time I have no issues with pinch flats on carbon rims with a wider bead, a 60tpi EXO casing, and no insert (at the same pressures).
  • 6 12
flag baca262 (Sep 14, 2022 at 7:45) (Below Threshold)
 it's the advantage of carbon that it'll flex instead of pinch and edge width helps too
  • 4 1
 I've noticed that I have more tire bead cuts/failures with my DT wheelsets (have multiple sets on multiple bikes) than with some other wheels I have (Stans, WAO). Was wondering if it was a DT profile thing or just bad luck, seems it might be the former.
  • 2 20
flag baca262 (Sep 14, 2022 at 8:59) (Below Threshold)
 wtf is with haters negpropping my reply, is practical and useful stuff hate speech now too?
  • 4 1
 @baca262: I didn't downvote your original reply, but I did downvote your complaint about downvotes, mostly because of your nonsensical comment about hate speech.
  • 1 0
 Not very scientific data on my side, but I have the same impression. My only failure was ex471 with DH casing, while the tire sliced a few mm open, the rim was absolutely intact so I guess the impact (which I didn't even notice) wasn't extreme.
Seems like they are improving this now, that's good
  • 1 5
flag baca262 (Sep 15, 2022 at 6:28) (Below Threshold)
 @barp: it's not nonsensical at all, you'll see it once you taste in on your own skin. if you're pro anything good, they'll come after you. if you're an a*shole, you're their friend.
  • 1 0
 Sounds like you need heavier tires
  • 1 0
 @baca262: Your original comment was downvoted for being incorrect.
Your following comments were all downvoted because you whined about it.
Be warned, the PB comments section is not a safespace
  • 1 2
 @gabriel-mission9: nope, my comments were downvoted by butthurt little pricks who hate me because i'm not butthurt like them. as in, idiot is as idiot does.
  • 3 0
 are you sure you aren't butthurt like them? You might want to double check.
  • 1 2
 @gabriel-mission9: both that and that you're one of them otherwise you wouldn't be talking stupid shit.
  • 3 0
 Are you drunk dude? You aren't making a whole load of sense there...
  • 1 3
 @gabriel-mission9: more stupid shit, see what i'm talking about?
  • 1 0
 @baca262: Nope, I really don't. Are you broken?
  • 1 2
 @gabriel-mission9: nope and you envy it, you envy i shit nicer turds than you give presents.
  • 1 2
 @gabriel-mission9: this last comment of mine is a living example, i'm punishing your bad behavior trying to get you to get to your senses (shitting turd) while you're hating on me, what kind of present is false concern (are you broken)?

see a shrink ffs, you haters gonna ruin the entire world, it is already visible in the headlines in case you have your head so far up your ass.
  • 4 0
 @baca262: Dude. You need help. Honestly. I'm not sure what fantasy world you're living in, but it's not doing you any favours.

1) You made an incorrect statement and got neg propped for it.
2) You flew into some sort of weird self indulgent rage over it, that no one cares about but you.
3) I tried to explain to you what was causing the neg props, but you decided to believe it was because everyone on the internet hates you (In the nicest possible way...no one on the internet knows or cares who you are, trust me)
4) You are now just shouting angry meaningless nonsense into the void. You can type as much bile as you like but it makes no measurable difference to my life (or anyone else that has commented here). Your anger is affecting no one but yourself. I'd think about that if I were you. Think long and hard. Do you enjoy being angry? Is it helping you in any way? If not, I suggest you get over it...
  • 1 1
 @gabriel-mission9: yes, it is now obvious i am shouting it into a void. a triggered one as well. "he who has an itch, scratches himself"
  • 1 1
 @gabriel-mission9: i actually had to go and google it just for a *insert compliments here* like you beast-components.de/en/rim-knowledge

Logical coordination of these individual profile areas with one another (always taking into account the respective application area of the rim) is essential. No area should be too large. An exaggerated layup of the rim body does not help durability if the rim flanges are not designed for the same purpose. What’s the use of a super-stiff rim if the rim flange breaks the first time you get a pinch puncture? You also don’t need to design a road bike rim so that you can ride it on trails. That’s what gravel rims are for.
In short, designing and manufacturing a rim requires a holistic, systematic approach. about carbon rim design.
  • 1 3
 @gabriel-mission9: which gives - carbon rim is actually SOFTER than aluminum so it WOULDN'T break when you punch a rock
  • 1 3
 @gabriel-mission9: cool story bro
  • 1 2
 @gabriel-mission9: are you seriously claiming you know better than an actual rim manufacturer?

your aim are not the facts but to put down someone you feel is better than you (and i'm not, that's your delusion) and this is all you trolls do online all day long, the internet is full of it. you even gang up on people, proven by more than one neg prop on my comment. and you don't care that you're deluding the younger and dumber into bad choices which are sometimes even potentially fatal, all you know is to hate everyone around you.

soon enough, everyone's gonna wise up to you soyboy trolls and what are you planning for then? play stupid games, win stupid prizes.
  • 1 0
 @baca262:

Lol.

Yes I do think I know better than the marketing dept of some random small fry rim manufacturer. Marketing depts are absolutely notorius for talking total nonsense that fools the average punter, but anyone who understands what they are looking at tends to see through it easily.

No I absolutely do not think you are better than me. I feel sorry for you and am trying to explain the world in simple enough terms for you to understand. Because you are clearly struggling.

Dude, you are coming across as extremely fragile. No one cares about your feelings. toughen up a little man, it'll do you good.
  • 9 1
 Big fan of DT Swiss. My only question is why the rim costs much more in USD when the exchange rate is close to parity
  • 4 0
 especially, as taxes are already included in europe... maybe, they ship them one by one
  • 7 1
 @jbravo I thought the same thing! €89.90 at today's exchange rate should be $89.74...
  • 5 1
 Tariffs are different in the EU vs USA
  • 1 0
 Maybe it matters that many luxury products sold in both Europe and Northern America are being produced in Asia. DT Swiss products are being produced in Europe so there may be some more logistics (hence costs) involved to get them to North America which don't apply to European customers. If so, I suppose this would also apply to Mavic and Ryde rims and not to Alex rims. "I suppose" I said as I am to lazy to check whether this is in fact the case.
  • 3 2
 Right? Classic Swiss move. Was in europe this summer--euro to USD is even right now.
  • 6 0
 Follow up question: Why is literally every bike from US manufacturers stupidly expensive in Euro prices? Following the exchange rate, bikes from the US should be cheaper here, but they are often 20-30% more expensive. Usually we are the ones getting the short end of the stick.

I suppose the answer could be because shipping and having to have storage and inventory management and distribution overseas is very expensive these days.
  • 2 0
 DT swiss has a factory in Colorado, as well as Germany (and probably lots of other places). Costs to the consumer are going to vary based on that, alone.
  • 5 0
 "While the main dimensions of the rim are the same between the FR 541, FR 560 and EX 511, when you zoom in to the small details, the shape of the profiles are quite different."

At first I thought they made a mistake and used the same image for each profile. However, if I squint real hard I can maybe see a small difference in the profile. But it is a pretty subtle change to a steeper, less round profile, not the obvious difference the article refers to.
  • 3 0
 The FR541 is basically an EX511 with different stickers and a tiny bit thicker rim sidewall.
  • 9 1
 DTSwiss doing a big rim job on this one.
  • 6 3
 There’s some praise for the “low” cost. But does anyone know when aluminum rims got so expensive? Did carbon normalize higher prices?

I remember when the 17 in a Sun CR17 was approximately the cost in USD (as well as the width). And an expensive Mavic 217 was 30-something and 50-something for the crazy expensive ceramic version [old man proceeds to yell at cloud]

I guess suspension forks have also 3x in cost for top of the line stuff in that timeframe, but there’s air more tech in those. Some $120+ rims don’t even have eyelets!
  • 3 4
 They are more expensive because they are a whole hell of a lot nicer. Materials, tech and r&d have come a long way. I would love to see someone try to ride a 217 these days with bikes designed the way they are.
  • 3 0
 And I used to go into shops when I split a Rhyno Lite and have them hand me a brand new, pre-built Deore hub laced to a Rhyno Lite, give them $80 and go back out and bash it into oblivion with DH tires and heavy duty tubes coated in baby powder for a few months.
Then repeat.
  • 1 0
 Aluminum prices in general have gone up a lot.
  • 6 0
 I’m no engineer but rather than referring to the “profile” wouldn’t rim cross section be the proper term?
  • 4 1
 Comparing an eyelet rim profile (FR 560) to a non eyelet rim it's like comparing apples and oranges.
The FR541 is basically the new version of EX511. Just marketing stuff.
Anyway, in my opinion, DT Swiss are the best value for the money rims you can buy.
  • 3 0
 I seen more carbon rims fail than ally in the last few years. Exploders. I went from ally to carbon to ally, I notice zero difference.
  • 6 0
 So you're an ally of alloy.
  • 2 1
 any reason why certain rims (including these, based on the images of their profile cross section) don't have a bead hook? Seems like the little ridge to help prevent burping (like spank beadbite) could only be a good thing?

Any reasons why such a high end rim would not want to include this feature?
  • 2 0
 Is there a distinction between a bead hook and a flange hook? The massive close up and caption show, and talk about one for this rim?

The argument has been IIRC that the hook didn’t actually do much, and there was a position from some companies that just filling the area under the hook with material to create a thicker wall was more advantageous, and that the hook was so small it was prone to damage from strikes - likely even more so on carbon rims.

Often IDRC so happy for someone to correct me!
  • 1 0
 @tkrug: sorry...just seeing this reply after a while. Yes, for the purposes of my question, the flange hook is not the same as a bead hook. I believe the point you were making was for a flange hook, where just thickening the rim on the flange and eliminating the outer hook would make for a stronger flange? (correct me if I'm wrong)

but the "bead hook" that I'm wondering about is the ridge on the base of the rim bed which a tire "snaps" over during inflation....the idea being to help reduce burping during hard cornering (spank has a very noticeable feature to this effect called "beadbite"). Just curious why some high end rims might choose not to employ this
  • 1 0
 Thinking of this, wouldn't it be a good idea to have a narrow silicon/rubber strip/ring that covers the bead of the rim? So first you put on the tire (not inflated but with the sealant already in there), then you put on the strips (which should be easy as the tires are still deflated and then you inflate the tire. Maybe the hook won't work anymore (but we don't really need those, do we?) and you'll effectively make the internal rim width a bit narrower (so choose a wider rim than you normally would). But you will get this nice wide (and actually compliant) bumper on the rim bead which both protects the rim as well as the tire in case of impact. And compared to a tire insert inside the tire, this may actually be lighter and easier to install too as you only put it on once the tire is on.

I'd take my money if I were to sell this. I'm an engineer too.
  • 1 0
 @JohSch: Wasn't aware of that one. Looks nice actually though it may actually be harder to work with. You need to lift the entire thing over the (hard) rim bead before you install the tire and don't displace the strip as you (usually rather violently) install the tire. The bead needs to be low enough so that you can lift the tire bead over it, stiff enough to keep the inflated tire in place yet flexible enough so that you can actually install it. The slight bit where "my" idea may be more convenient is that you only install it when the tire is already over the rim (in the center channel) after which you install the strip. The aluminium rim bead was already high enough to keep the tire in place (as I didn't intend to redesign the rim too) so the flexible strip can be much higher as you don't need to lift the tire over it anyway. You install the individual strips from both sides, you don't have to drag anything across the bead that also needs to fit snugly in the (much deeper) center channel. Then again, where Enve wins is that they have actually done testing where mine idea is currently just that, an idea Wink .
  • 5 4
 I like it when companies do throw back designs like this. Metal wheels, hooked beads, its all fun to go down memory lane and own some of the stuff that you didn't get to own 20 years ago.
  • 2 0
 Like cargo jorts from the 90s, all trends are cyclical.
  • 6 1
 Weighs the same as a DH rated carbon rim. If current DT rims are an indicator, will be dead straight out of the box and a pleasure to build.

If you munch one even with a Cushcore and a beefy tire, $135 or so is a lot easier to swallow than a few hundred bucks for a carbon rim.

But yeah-it’s soooooo retro. Gonna throw it on the klunker for repack laps……….
  • 2 0
 @wyorider: Do people still buy carbon rims without lengthy warranties?
  • 2 1
 @wyorider: Dead straight out of the box is the pinnacle of performance really.

The real problem is deciding what color of panaracer fire xc pro hooked tires you want to match your jorts. @jamespa seems to be onto it.

On Outside+ there was a preview of DT Swiss's new QR hub concept so you don't have to fiddle with a thru axle. Looks legit.
  • 1 1
 @hbar314: if you keep your bikes long enough you’re still rocking your sick MB-0 with Smoke/Dart tires a rim with a long warranty might make sense.

If you actually replace bikes every few years-maybe not. Even if you keep your fancy “forever” wheels the industry will change standards and then you’ll be stuck selling them for pennies on the dollar. See what a rim brake we hub carbon road wheelset sells for used these days. Or a fancy set of 26” wheels. Or non-boost 27.5”.

The cost of even a few good aluminum rims if you own a bike for, say, 3 years is still the cost of 1 good carbon rim.

So if you insist on bling-good on ya. Match your rim decals to your stem/crank/headset anodizing and blind us with your conspicuous consumption. But that’s all it is.
  • 2 0
 @wyorider: Couldn't agree more. I think a good warranty is great these days and I'm not one to get on the band wagon of every new marketing trick that comes along.

You're right, if you use several sets of aluminum wheels in a few seasons then something is definitely wrong.

My 27.5 mag wheels have been going strong for 5 seasons now. That's 5, 6, or even 7 aluminum rims with your math that I haven't had to replace or baby along to keep straight (after getting them out of the box). Man, I honestly hadn't even thought about it that way until you brought it up.

I haven't seen anodizing on carbon headsets but maybe you're on to something. Need to submit some of these ideas to PB, might get a free tshirt or decals.
Speaking of, have you bought much PB merch?
  • 1 0
 @hbar314: mag wheels-keep rockin them Skyways.

Carbon headset says it all-your bike looks hella dope in front of the coffee shop.
  • 1 0
 @wyorider: The new DHARCO kits are legit!
  • 4 0
 Exchange rate here is a puzzler
  • 6 0
 Yeah, 50% price hike for the US. Cool, I guess I'll just keep buying my bike parts from European sites.
  • 1 1
 goberment bro
  • 5 3
 Truing rims with dial gauges. Overkill but I like it ! Never seen that before. Bit more precise than my sticks taped to the forks .
  • 8 1
 that is literally how a pro builds a wheel. lol. hardly overkill if you want to charge money for a service..... imagine taking your car to get serviced and the only tool the mechanic has is a crescent wrench, a butterknife and a harbor freight claw hammer. LMAO
  • 3 1
 @conoat: oh yes every bike shop I go to uses dial gauges . Quite frankly sticks taped to forks do the exact same job. It's up to the wheel builder to keep the spoke tension even . The dial gauges are simply for up down and side movement. The level of knowledge and experience of the wheel builder is far more important than fancy tools .
  • 2 3
 @Sshredder: up and down side to side.....did you mean radial and lateral runout? lol

obviously a spoke tension gauge is a necessary addition to runout gauges, but if you are using sticks to your fork, gonna guess a $300 tension gauge is also not on your to-buy list. Big Grin
  • 6 1
 @conoat: uh oh watch out he's using fancy words. You should take that sense of elitism to reddit where it belongs.
  • 2 0
 A dial can be way faster to build a good wheel, because you can start at the beginning of the deviation, rather than just chasing the high spots.

I do one rotation around the wheel to see the range of run-out.
Tighten a quarter turn when ever the dial goes over 60, or what ever number is slightly less than the highest reading.
Adjust the number you aim for as you go, maybe after one lap you will tighten any that are over 40.
The actual number/measurement on the dial doesn't matter, you just want to watch where it swings to.
With this method you are usually adjusting about 4 to 12 spokes at once, so it's fast and even
  • 1 1
 @andrew9: i totally agree with you my offense is not with the dial. I have used them to build wheels for years.

This @conoat guy is just being a tool, thats the point of my post. Guys that build wheels better than me (and him) use the words "up,down" and "side to side" because its faster than saying "lateral runout".
  • 1 1
 @conoat: you sound like a real squid
  • 2 2
 Zip ties on frame, and judge tension by the sound. Thats the way.
  • 6 1
 FR but no 26?
  • 5 0
 Jumped in the comments to vouch for that.

Hope that's a typo or only a small delay. But there's still a fair share of market to target, that runs 26".

Please keep distributing products for all sizes. Because in a world slowly speaking of durability or frugalism, there are some that already acts by those words and do not change equipment every other months.
  • 1 0
 They certainly want to provide also for the cargo bike market for example, which can sometimes be limited to 26".
Soo... Same as 36 hole rims, you may have to look at their "hybrid " segment
  • 4 4
 Very few people would refuse a free upgrade from a high end alloy rim to a high end carbon rim.

The only reason anyone is arguing about alloy vs carbon is the price difference.

You know this is true, just check your baggage at the door.

Good carbon rims are tougher and more resilient than good aluminum rims, there’s no question.
  • 2 3
 100%

Carbon shaming is really a front for progress shaming. Good buy rotary phones.
  • 1 1
 Dt rims build up better than most of the other brands I've used. The washers make sense, but are a bit of a fiddle to build with. I also think they should include the weight of those washers for the rim since they are necessary. Probably cuts a chunk out of the 30 gram weight savings.
  • 3 0
 The guys at fanatik gave them a beating. youtu.be/eSo4w3Kjyos
  • 1 0
 good enough for me!
  • 2 0
 One thing is certain. If they are supposed to replace the FR560's and EX511's, these have absolutely gigantic shoes to fill.
  • 3 0
 "available immediately" wow thats refreshing
  • 3 0
 I can't get my head around DT's naming at all.
  • 1 2
 “ It was also a lighter option than the FR 560, saving precious grams from a pretty important extremity on the bike”

But everyone on here keeps saying weight saving is bad and that they want heavier stuff. Surely all those pros have got it wrong
  • 4 2
 Good price and spec but what?! The ex 511 stickers look way better
  • 1 1
 What alloy are they using on these? 6061 or 6069? That will go a long way in determining if I stick with Flow EX3 or look for something else.
  • 23 3
 flow ex3 are inferior in every way compared to the dt 511 or 561
  • 6 0
 @Charlotroy: i've had pretty good luck with my ex3's for the last 2 years or so. what makes you say they are inferior?
  • 11 1
 I’ve never met a Stan’s rim that didn’t end up with stress cracks at the spoke holes after a season.
  • 2 1
 @cherbein03: They're not as strong I believe and the finish quality is not the same. I'm only 168lbs but I ride dh in mont sainte anne so lots of rocks but yeah I wasn't impressed by the flows. Same with spanks, they all cracked. My ex511 and fr 560 on my bikes so far are impressive in durability
  • 1 0
 @wyorider: I had a Stan Flow D rim that separated at the weld seam
  • 1 0
 @Charlotroy: I have the ex511 and fr 560 as well and I am 210 lbs and beat the snot out of the wheels and they are holding well. I would say that ex511 seems to resist pinch flats much better than the fr 560.
  • 2 0
 Wehay, Dan delivers more DH content!
  • 1 0
 My FR 560 has finally been smashed enough times that it wont stay true. Excited to try the FR 541 next season!
  • 2 0
 Is this FR?
  • 1 0
 Why am I only seeing $151 USD?
  • 1 0
 Why not state the ERD for that rim?
  • 1 0
 It looks kinda flimsy compared to the fr560
  • 1 2
 DT Swiss missed the ball here by basically rebranding a EX511. How about thicker rim side wall like 4mm instead of +17%! Or perhaps angling the rim side wall out like Newmen.
  • 1 0
 That's neat how you threw the wheel in the air for the photo...
  • 2 0
 MAVIC for ever
  • 1 0
 More descriptive product naming would be appreciated.
  • 1 0
 What is the cheat code to get them for 90 dollars?
  • 2 2
 finally, a relatable price point for a wheel....
  • 6 0
 *rim
  • 4 3
 $135 MSRP. Enuff Said.
  • 2 1
 awesome price
  • 3 3
 Seriously? That's per rim, not a fully built wheel. I think the EX 471 and 511 were under $100 CAD for the longest times.
  • 2 0
 @CSharp: not ridiculous for something that will probably last you a long while. And yes I am aware that is a rim…
  • 1 0
 @CSharp: governments printing tens of trillions of dollars caused inflation.....so, there's your baddie
  • 4 4
 I see no mention of its BMX background.
  • 1 0
 Nevemind
  • 1 0
 Speed and Power.
  • 4 5
 I read through this, and I'm still convinced this is a rebadged EX511.
  • 1 4
 Furthermore, how can the rim dimensions be the same between the two, but the ERDs are different?
  • 6 0
 @spankthewan: because the rim dimensions are not the same Wink Rim wall thickness at the spoke hole is different.
  • 4 0
 did you look at the rim profile?
  • 1 1
 Aluminum is aluminum
  • 6 0
 Except when it's aluminium.
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