PINKBIKE FIELD TEST
Hardtail Roundtable
Sync'r vs. Timberjack vs. Team Marin vs. Meta HT AM
The desert is brutally sparse, so it's only natural that we spent some time in Tucson riding hardtails. I mean, the things I like about the desert are the same things I like about hardtails: they're straightforward and nuanced at the same time, they're punishing, and they're f*ckin' rad if you pay attention.
With fork travel ranging from 120mm to 160mm, our four test bikes weren't exactly united by a single purpose, but they did all have features that we liked and didn't like, they're all priced between $1,500 and $2,100 USD, and they all went through the Tucson trail beatdown with us. It's time to pit them against each other and chat about what we learned from riding these things in the American Southwest.
The Salsa Timberjack XT 29 rose above the rest when it came to a do-it-all, versatile trail hardtail that climbs well, descends well, and has good parts on it. Of course, it's the most expensive of the bunch, so it's hard to hold any spec deficiencies against the others, but it was still impressive to see how the Salsa performed with its XT drivetrain, sensible Maxxis tires, and feature-filled frame. When deciding which bike we'd most like to have as our own, the Timberjack was the largest area of Venn diagram overlap among the three of us.
That said, the Marin Team Marin 1 was another standout bike for entirely different reasons. The entry-level cross country bike comes with a Shimano Deore 12-speed drivetrain and a 120mm RockShox Judy Silver TK fork, but unfortunately no dropper post. Despite the high seatpost, the Team Marin was another bike that we all thoroughly enjoyed riding, and it helps that the bike comes with a nice enough frame that beginner cross country riders could potentially upgrade the parts to help the bike grow with them as they progress into the sport.
While we're still on our favorites, Freeride Kaz was especially fond of the Commencal Meta HT AM Origin. The Meta HT is the most aggressive of the bunch, with a 160mm fork up front and 27.5" plus tires. Like the Team Marin, it lacks a dropper post, but the $1,500 price tag hopefully leaves some room in the budget to add one on, and in the meantime, there's a quick-release seatpost clamp. The frame details on it are also quite refined, with clean cable routing and cable port protection, so it's ready for any of the nicest components you'd want to throw at it.
With three of the four test bikes rising to the top of the field, that leaves just one behind to, well, sink. The Diamondback Sync'r has good intentions, a nice color scheme, and an entry-level price, but it's outperformed by other bikes that accomplish what Diamondback tries to with less weight, updated geometry, and better parts compared to the perhaps aptly-named Sync'r.
Watch the roundtable video to hear more of our impressions from this group of hardtails.
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The way to rowdify a hardtail is via frame geometry, see: Kona Honzo ESD.
@jesse-effing-edwards A hard tail 29er with short chainstays and reasonable HTA is a ton of fun to ride. Its like a dirt jumper but on the trail. You can out climb your enduro buddies who normally beat you, and you can have fun popping off little rollers and roots that your 160mm+ bike flattens. You can slam berms faster. You can bunny hop stuff more easily. When ridden this way its actually less tiring than a fully. I love my ti hard tail.
"long" travel hardtails are for first and last-time buyers.
A capable fork is just writing a check the back wheel can't cash.
My hardtail has a 120mm SID and I've tried all manner of tires. Even that fork creates a significant imbalance in what the front can do and the rear can't. I'm tall with strong legs so with pretty good built-in suspension. Rooty, rocky trails that exceed tire compliance impose a speed limit and that's a challenge in itself, but also takes away the thrill of speed. More tame trails and climbing are pretty awesome though.
My hardtail is basically like a classic muscle car. It's not gonna out perform a 2022 porche, but I wouldn't change it. I ride a Ripmo AF as my everything bike.
I'm not a pro travel adjustable forks, but sometimes I need 140mm or less, sometimes I need 160, depending on the terrains.
That's why I've finally kept my fork (Suntour Auron) at its maximum: 160mm, BUT with particular adjustments, because it has 160mm in static but I run it smoother with fewer air pressure, 2 air tokens, the softer negative spring inside, some fluider oil, and a very soft grease for spi joints.
Also, aggro HT are a breed of MTB that you have to ride fully commited by overcharging the front, so at the end, despite of my 160mm fork in static, I think I probably ride a 120/130mm in movement... and I've got plenty of negative response when the terrain in getting rougher/deeper.
Tough subject, indeed ;-)
Where are my fellow long travel hardtail shredders?
www.pinkbike.com/photo/22503965
I'd say it's not a XC bike (I've lowered my cockpit though), but it climbs well... and I take my time
Hardtail rider who is building a single speed
Still great fun to ride fast and chase the boys and girls on bigger bikes.
* e-bikers vs leg-powered bikers
* those who stay home when it rains vs all-weather riders
* gravity riders vs xc marathoners
* couch potatoes vs anyone that does sports
Setting arbritary goals and subjecting them to equally arbitrary limitations is what people do for many types of activities. Anyone is free to choose.
That said, I prefer a short travel (120 ish) FS to a long-travel HT for almost everything.
26 pounds with SLX, dropper, and clipless pedals. 120mm fox fork, 67 degree HTA, 420mm chainstays in the short, and intentionally flexy chainstays.
I like them.
I ride the 160mm hardtail the most. In reality, do I need a 160mm full suspension for my local trails? No but having that cushion up front makes it that much more fun than the shorter travel hardtail.
In my opinion what is being missed by the naysayers is that we are hardtail purists, I don't want 160mm fork with soft plush travel. I want my fork to sit high in its travel and not pack up with repeated hits in a rock garden, in other words firm. What I'm actually going through in travel on your average trail is closer to 130-140mm and I save the rest for bottoming out of rollers. If I'm riding the shorter travel hardtail I'm constantly pushing its limits and because of that I'm hitting the extreme of geometry changes more often because I'm going through full travel mode frequently.
But there comes a point where a bike is so unbalanced that it loses the benefit of either. I feel like for 99% of people that tipping point is around 130mm of fork travel and a HTA slacker than 66 degrees.
-That guy in dickies, a T-shirt, and a dome helmet, passing you in the bike park-
To you fully guys: It doesn't matter what is better, it matters what a person likes to ride. People riding hardtails isn't somehow going to hurt full suspension bikes in any way.
To you hardtail purists: hardtails are not better in almost any practical way other than cost, and that is OK. they don't have to be.
This is coming from someone who has been riding aggressive hardtails since 69* HTA's were considered "aggressive" and currently has 2 hardtails (1 singlespeed) and one more on the way, as well as a 180mm travel enduro super bike that is better at everything than my hardtails.(climbing included on anything but a fireroad) but I still tend to have more fun on the hardtails
The reason I ride my hardtail more than my full suspension is just down to the fact it’s easier to get to the top of trails and I can ride it for longer without getting tired so I get to do more riding and riding is as much of a chore. If there was no advantages to riding hardtails it would never leave my garage. I’m trying to make riding as easy and as much fun as possible not the other way around.
and realistically if modern full suspension bikes were really that much of a burden, you could certainly lock it out for near the same effect.
It's fine if you prefer it, and I am glad that you do, there needs to be more of us hardtail guys. But seriously If I am going to grab a bike that I can ride trails all day and not be fatigued, it is going to be the fully. Any amount of extra fatigue that comes from extra weight or less pedalling performance is easily offset by the fatigue generated from absorbing hits from rocky terrain or drops without full suspension.
Also all these people riding hard tails, as @thenotoriousmic, are going faster and further than the rest of us, up and down, leading to more erosion and encounters with hikers! This new hard tail trend will only serve to get mountain bikes banned on public lands! (and probably start forest fires from their low BBs cracking their chainrings on rocks)
When ridden a certain way, then yes, they are more efficient and much more fun. However, once you put a 180mm fork on your 63 degree HTA that bike will no longer pedal well, climb well, or be poppy and playful.
I don't know what I said that would be a Star Wars reference but I tend to quote Star Wars a lot as is already so some may have accidentally bled through
@thenotoriousmic
Believe what you want, but like I said, any small amount of fatigue from 'energy lost' will be more than offset by the lack of rear suspension as soon as there are any impacts. Which any fun mountain bike ride will have plenty of.
Again, nothing but love for hardtails, but we've got to keep ourselves grounded in reality.
just got it, "This bickering is pointless. @thenotoriousmic release him!"
Was not intentional but I'll own it.
Aggro hardtails mean violence; I sometimes shout "VIOLEEEEENCE" when I send it on very harsh terrains, and that's what I like. I like also my FS 29er to do that (Transition Smuggler)... but I'm stupid enough to prefer the hardtail.
Enjoy the violence!
Note- here in the UK autos are the minority, probably due to the shorter distances, more over crowding and narrow, winding tight country roads. If I lived somewhere like France or the US which have much longer straighter roads and distances I’d have an auto for sure.
I like hardtails, I also like big FS bikes but can only have one at the moment at a hardtail is more fun on short, sharp rides. Also less to look after when time is short
and like I said you are fooling yourself.
Either that or you have never ridden a properly set up full suspension bike.
I ride both. Regularly. like all the damn time.
That's all I've got to say. Not worth the effort to continue beating a dead horse.
Oh, wait...
Ready, steady, GOOOO.
enduro-mtb.com/en/enduro-vs-downcountry-bike
The fact that you feel the need to twist the argument so badly is just proof that you’ve lost the point. Move on. I love my hardtail and think it’s a blast. And of course it climbs better than my enduro bike. But to say that it does “everything easier” is just delusional. It most certainly does not handle high speed chunky descents easier. And objectively it’s probably not as fast uphill as a full suspension built for that purpose.
‘ I love my hardtail and think it’s a blast. And of course it climbs better than my enduro bike. But to say that it does “everything easier” is just delusional. It most certainly does not handle high speed chunky descents easier. And objectively it’s probably not as fast uphill as a full suspension built for that purpose’.
not if it's that fork
@mikelevy: I'm going to go ahead and disagree with you. I'm going to go with the Salsa.
cyclingtips.com/2022/04/exposed-by-a-strava-kom-the-many-lives-of-a-fake-pro-cyclist
Brilliant exposee by PB's sister publication. I guaratee that it's gonna be worth your time.
Conman's gonna con. Roadies are all marks. Conman's gonna con.
I'm glad I stuck with it so I could see the author tie it to something bigger, as I was thinking, "uh, sure, this guy's a psychopath liar but how many millions has he conned into voting for him for President?"
I loved that one of the through-lines was his horrible grammar and spelling. Fantastic.
But yeah, it seems a story for a few years ago...back when we were just starting to avoid evidence...
Also found it noteworthy that the author muses about how credulous hackery and payola (from SmartCEO [lol] to Forbes) could be contributing to the problem...and he's writing for cyclingtipsdotcom?--no paid pieces here, right?
Whatever.
Good presentation and yup of course dude's involved in guns/prepper school now LOL
Road bike shops suck!
definitely gonna bail on a few rides citing "blood infeckshun" this year...Team Nick!
-Rocky Mountain Growler with fork swap
The Salsa does look like the complete package in this group.
A: I'd take XYZ because otherwise I'd ride my $12k full suspension bike.
And is there a bike out you desperately want to put hands on but haven't been able to?
How long was your wait? I've heard they are pretty back logged.
I'm realistic and can say I don't ride aggressive enough to warrant the bike at all, but I just thought a crazy hardtail would be fun to try and always wanted a custom frame and Marino prices are so reasonable, I just went for it and will learn from it, just like you said. I'll see how it goes and can drop the fork down to 160/150 for like $35 with an air spring swap if I want to try and reign it in.
It was 185 days (just over 6 months) from order to doorstep, but about one month of that was just waiting on the sliding dropout inserts. If I went standard thru axle, I would have had it in 4.5-5 months. Marino threw in an extra set of dropouts, a couple spare axles, and a jersey, so I am very happy for my $430.
1) Customs - Pinker designed custom bikes. Ideally from people who claim they couldn't find a commercially available frame that met their needs.
2) Stamp of approval bikes - identify Pinkers who constantly want to be validated that their bike is the best bike and everyone else is crazy for having a different bike and ask why their bike was excluded from the field test or not reviewed often enough.
The Pinkbike Reality Check(TM).
I went with the hammered silver powder coat he offers, I think it looks awesome and I think it will hide the inevitable scratches.
I weigh 265lbs in my birthday suit (I was over 310), so 5 pounds here or there doesn't make any difference to me, but it would definitely mean more if I were a hundred pounds lighter like a lot of folks on this site!
I have a piece of aluminum mounted to the four bolts under the top tube, which will act as a perfect mounting spot for straps for spare tubes or whatever, without having to wrap the strap around the frame itself. Added a new picture with some of the accessories mounted up.
I added another picture of the strap thing to show it a bit better, holding a tube. Totally stumbled into the idea, but I love it.
@mikelevy : Commen - sul
@mikekazimer : Common - Saul
I finally settled on a Steel Honzo, mostly for 2 reasons: sliding dropouts and the fact it was in available.
I built up a hardtail this winter specifically to make some of the more sanitized trails around here more fun and I am loving it. It is early in the season but my other two bikes (130mm FS and rigid SS) are in the sunroom with soft tires because the new bike is so fun.
there is nothing like rowing through the gears in a vintage 5 speed sportscar, but it's not going to be faster than a modern dual-clutch 8 speed corvette.
I very often reach for my hardtail when I'm just looking to go out and have a good time. Plus it rarely requires any significant maintenance. Keep the drive train clean, and I don't have to mess with it.
Hah ok - this is why very few, if any, modern super cars can be had with a stick shift manual. Stick shifts are slower and more cumbersome, buuuuttt often times more fun.
Me either, but we both can agree you’re wrong haha
www.pinkbike.com/news/field-test-marin-team-marin-1-wallet-friendly-xc-race-2022.html