PINKBIKE FIELD TEST
Trail Bike Round Table
The definition of a modern trail bike continues to be up for debate, but for this Field Test we decided to keep the rear wheel travel between 130 – 140mm. Even with that limitation in place, the five bikes on test exhibitited a wide range of personalities out on the trail, running the gamut from the quick and nimble Ibis Mojo 4 to the plow-through-it-all Actofive P-Train.
That aluminum and steel P-Train, which is made in small batches in Germany, stole Levy's heart, and ended up as his top pick if he could only have one of these bikes as his daily driver in Squamish, BC. The new Specialized Stumpjumper, which is a whopping 7-pounds lighter than the P-Train, also earned high praise, and makes sense for a wider range of riders than the P-Train.
Giant's Trance X was ultra-efficient on the climbs thanks to that electronic Live Valve suspension, but it wasn't as impressive on the descents – choosing the next model or two down, which don't require any batteries, might be the way to go. The Blackthorn is a big step forward for Salsa, and that purple trail singletrack eater falls into the same 'pretty-much-an-enduro-bike' category as the Actofive.
As for the Ibis Mojo 4, well, it hasn't lost its ability to turn on a dime, aided in part by those 27.5” wheels. That liveliness put it neck and neck with the Stumpjumper on the climbs, but on the descents it wasn't quite as surefooted.
At the end of the day, what constitutes a trail bike will depend on your definition of a trail ride, but hopefully this discussion helps shed some light on which bike might make the most sense for where you live and your riding style.
The 2020 Pinkbike Field Test was made possible with support from Dainese apparel & protection, Sierra Nevada refreshments, and Smith eyewear and helmets. Thanks also to Maxxis, Garmin, and Freelap.
for serious. the giant looks like a great all arounder and with the right suspension setup i'm sure it would descend great.
I have the 2019 Trance Advanced Pro 29 0 and it weighs only 26.4lbs. It is a great bike but only gripe is to maybe have a bit more rear travel. I was thinking of getting the new 2021 Trance X Advanced Pro 1 and swapping some of my lighter parts from my Pro 0? However, I see the 2021 Pro 0 in the PB test nearly weighs 31lbs, so don't think I could get it light enough? That's over a 4lb increase from my 2019 Trance to the 2021 Trance X which is a lot of weight added. Curious, what does your 2021 Trance X Pro 1 weigh?
I like that Giant added a flip chip and now offer the new Trance X with more travel, but would have liked to see Giant go more the 2021 Specialized Stumpjumper route with 130mm/140mm travel. I think this is the perfect travel front/rear and the new Fox 34 with Grip 2 would have been nice and saved 1/2lb alone compared to the Fox 36. Despite Specialized increasing the reach and making a bigger bike, they were still able to lighten the frame and bike. With 135mm/150mm travel on the 2021 Trance X, I think it now starts to approach too close to Giant's (enduro) Reign.
I agree. Often giant fairs well but not great in reviews based in US dollars. However the pricing in Canada makes giant an extremely good bang for buck. I’m not sure if it’s an importing tax difference or what but the bikes often are the equivalent of 25-30% cheaper in Canadian dollars for giant.
Giant also has great year end sales and I paid only $6,000 CAD for Giant's top of the line Trance Advanced Pro 29 0. Other bikes with this kind of build retail for at least $11,000 CAD, so thanks Giant and please keep the good pricing in Canada. Canadians will support you as money counts...
You would have an easier time killing the Trance as the Ibis will never arrive. LOL. Been waiting for my Ibis since the second week of March with a new arrival date of March 2021. Ibis is terrible.
I wonder what the Trance X Pro 1 would weigh with my TRX1 wheels, carbon bars and complete X01 drivetrain & X01 cranks, if bike could be less than 28lbs? Besides the flip chip, I also wonder if Giant made the 2021 Trance X frame a lot heavier than the Trance?
Not only you. Fac to Ive T-Pain
where's the Poll for "which of these two all mountain/enduro bikes would you most like to try"?
Always seems like these tests have some real outliers that don't quite fit the category being tested??
Still, LOVE the content and look forward to them every time...
I have been buying mtn bikes for 25 years. I have never had such a terrible experience like I have had dealing with buying a bike from Ibis. Literally blatant lie after lie to keep me strung along for 9 months. I have never told a bike company I just want an honest answer...but Ibis brought me to that point.
If they give you a date for that DV9 just be prepared for them to change that date over and over.
If you implying the delay is due to covid related supply chain issues...the order was placed prior to covid with a "the bike is in stock in the warehouse and ready to ship" confirmation.
I run a company what distributes products. A primary rule is to be honest about product quality and lead times even if it is not what the client wants to hear. Being honest with your clients is the only way you will make it long term in business. I don't believe Ibis ever got the note.
I recently visited a major Norco bike shop in the area and the fellow I spoke with said everyone who rode the Optic all preferred the Sight. Maybe given the terrain and their riding styles.
Are you going to personally finance this money losing endeavor?
As for the rest of it, wheel size is a pretty tedious argument at this point. Ride what you like, either way. But just know that your opinion on the matter is just that -- an opinion. Some people genuinely prefer 29, as hard as it is for others to accept. I don't find 29ers lacking in cornering, playfulness or fun. It's not marketing, it's my experience.
I don't find 29ers lacking everywhere.., coming from a guy who had and used(albeit to a lesser extent, because I had the big enduro 27.5 as well) a 26" full susp until 2.5 years ago, had a couple of carbon HTs in 27.5 and only last year I did let go my big 27.5, changing it with one of those agressive trail-enduro-ish 29ers(of course, since 2018 I changed from 27.5 XC to 29ers and found those better as well); basically, I ride just as fast and only on big hits and big drops I feel the difference between my former 160mm and my current 130mm. I call BS on anyone who says the 29ers are not *insert whatever* as the 27.5 wheeld bikes are. And I'm 5'8.
Edit. I actually still have a 26" full susp, converted to 27.5 with crazy light wheels(around 1350 grams) and gravel 2.0 semi-slick rubber, which I use for buzzying around town, get out for a beer with the guys, going to work, when we worked from offices and not from our homes, things like that. I even done a 80 mile loop on it, half on gravel roads and easy xc trails and half on asphalt; it is the good for everything bike. Even so, I still call on BS at anyone who says 27.5" bikes are better, easier, jump higher, do whatever, than 29" wheel bikes can.
This is a big statement, but is only true: Kaz and Levy are the most influential bike journalists in the world today, and they're openly 29er guys, that has a lot to do with what people want.
Slight digression. I recently sat on a 2020 XL Sight (both 27.5" and 29") and they felt like Winnebago's compared with my 2003 Gary Fisher. And close to 194mm longer too. O.O I think even with both wheel sizes, the Norco is not going to feel like a playful bike.
What is your 27,5” trail bike (130-150mm rear, 140-160mm front) of choice? 2020/2021 only,... bonus points are for any 27,5” trail bike which is ALUMINUM! Are there any ALU 27,5” left in this world?
Btw reminds me same situation happening in car industry with manual transmission, more and more brands are done with it. But people still want them (about as many as 27,5” wheels). The thing there is, that people that buy NEW cars and NEW bikes (often) want the newest, best for most part,.... like 29” and CVT,... where most ppl wanting smaller wheels and stick are those which buying used, or keeping their stuff for years,... which does not help manufacturers to sell more of them.
Trek Remedy
SC Bronson
Norco Sight
YT Jeffsy
All these 4 have 160/150mm travel so its pushing bit out of trail bike,.. all I can fin with less travel, but not like 120mm fork is :
Rocky Mountain Thunderbolt and
Giant Trance
Both of which have 140mm in rear but very outdated geo?
One bike I found just recently is Banshee Spitfire, it checks many boxes, 160mm fork, 135mm rear, good geo,.. but only as frame only option. For $3000 Canadian.... so looking at $5000 at least for finished bike.
The hardest thing in this transition was the suspension setup, totally not related to wheel size.
Bronson v3, easy peasy
A friend of mine only rides 27.5. I started out 26" (but shitty bikes), went 27.5, now I am on 29". I prefer the wagon wheels. And contrary to popular belief, it does just fine in tight trails and jumps (even more crazy, I like jumping with a coil suspension). But my prefered riding is tight and technical rock gardens.
A friend of mine and I about a year ago swapped rides for the night (we are both the same height and weight). H is 180mm, 26" Intense Uzzi for my E29. We both walked away thinking about how fun we had, but looked forward to having our bikes back.
As far as industry media goes, I will give them that — they probably are two of the biggest names. But that probably doesn’t reach as many people as you might think.
market = us (bikers)
or
market = marketing dep.
which one were you referring to?
For example, I ride every year with a group of about 10 guys in Moab. They ride a lot and buy new, expensive bikes every couple of years. But my guess is I’m the only one who knows who Levy and Kazimer are. Their purchasing decisions are based on what everyone else recommends.
I have other friends who are just getting into the sport. Have no idea this site even exists. They go to the shop or other friends for recs.
The media in these niche markets, even if they are relatively big, don’t reach as many people as you think.
I'd argue that a 27.5 "trail" bike and a 29er "trail" bike are really just different categories of bike. I've owned both, and they hit the same trail with a completely different feel. I see the merits of 29er wheels, especially for racing or for big frames. For a mid-travel bike, out in the woods riding around for S's and G's, I'm not so sure.
If I could only own one FS trail bike it's definitely going to be a 27.5.
What is crazy about their new builds is that they are within a few hundred dollars of comparable builds from Canyon, YT, etc. They are getting aggressive on pricing with the mid tier builds.
SWorks still doesn't make much sense financially unless it is the exact build you want. Even then you could probably build it cheaper yourself if you can actually find a frame only.
They could have tested bikes more like the Trance X Advanced Pro 1 and Specialized Stumpjumper Pro. Giant's Pro 1 ($6600 CAD) has better suspension and drivetrain than the Pro 2 and would be a really good bike to test. The Stumpy Pro is $4,000 CAD less than the ridiculously priced $14,000 SWorks model PB tested, but looks almost as good with X01 drivetrain and Fox Factory suspension. However, a closer bike from Specialized to probably test against Giant's Pro 1 would be the Stumpy Expert ($7,100 CAD). The Stumpy Expert has the same suspension (Fox's top end but w/o the Kashima) as the Trance X Pro 1, but has some better X01 drivetrain components, but the Giant Pro 1 has carbon wheels. Ibis does not advertise their CAD pricing, but the $5700 USD GX build would be a good match to test against these other bikes. mentioned.
I think I saw some others question its descending chops too. Maybe the Brits just aren't that keen on Stumpies
www.bikeradar.com/reviews/bikes/mountain-bikes/full-suspension-mountain-bikes/2021-specialized-stumpjumper-expert-review
Look at Vitalmtb’s or Flow’s review.
I got my Stumpjumper the other week and it’s amazing. And I’ve been riding a Mojo 3, SB140, Ransom and Spectral over the last two years. This Stumpy is by far the most fun and nimble bike.
Like you said, if someone wants a FOX 36, buy the EVO. However, I think bike companies should have the option (in the trail bike category) for either a Fox 36 or the new Fox 34 Grip2, and even a piggyback or just inline rear shock option. This would solve all problems, as someone who is a heavier and more aggressive rider that still wants a lighter and shorter travel bike like the Stumpjumper can have the bigger Fork/shock option instead of having to go to a EVO. Other riders who are lighter and less aggressive (not hitting huge gaps and not plowing down every downhill non-stop at Mach 10) can still have their cake too (a light whippy trail bike).
Haha lots of nimbility for sure.
I have an Expert but upgraded it with AXS and some other stuff, carbon cranks, bars, saddle. Slightly burlier wheelset and tires. Bike is a blast to ride!
I always enjoy Pinkbike's field tests and think it helps many people narrow down their new bike search comparing the different bikes. My one gripe is PB does not show the CAD pricing, despite being in Canada?
But thinking in mm of travel to define the purpose of bikes is so 2019 Just think of the Optic and similar concepts.
Also people have different understandings of what a trail bike is supposed to be.
For me it seems this test was on bikes a bit more capable than what is now knows and down-country. On the other end of the trail bikes spectrum would be "not yet an full enduro bike".
From this point of view one could argue that the p-train doesn't fit in here others are missing.
Currently I'm trying hard to get my hands on a sj evo testbike which seems impossible atm. Not sure I would put it into the light enduro or heave trail bike category but the 2021 looks like a perfect one bike solution for technical alpine trails and fast enduro trails.
I'm curious what bikes will be in the enduro field test.
You have the parts there to make it happen. Seems like this is the biggest gripe with the field test. Plus I bet more of us would buy either the AL Giants or the 4500 Pro 2 than the 8500 dollar Pro 0.
Buy: Stumpy.
A spaceship is designed to excell at travellling once out of orbit, whilst being equally capable of overcoming planetary gravity using thrust to escape orbit.
Then you've got up-stellar, down-stellar and cross stellar (although the space suits are rather snug).
Blink twice slowly if you're being forced to present against your will. We'll either come get you or start a podcast about it.
#FreeLevy
Yes I would ride any of them 24/7 but I want the X without live valves and then we compare it to the Stumpy. I have a long standing love for Specialized bikes since buying my 1st Rockhopper in 1999 so the Stmpy would be easy to jump on.
Luckily I found a 'low milage' Trance 1 in 27.5, here on the Pinkbike Buy/sell and couldn't be happier.
The P train (so cool) and E-trance are such outliers, it's a little odd for this format. I agree with others that some more affordable and available bikes probably should have those spots for these tests.
Would it be safe to say that the Blackthorn just underwhelmed? It wasn't great on climbs, it wasn't great on descents.
Id suspect the unbalanced front to rear.
Coming from 20" bikes I expected to like short back ends. Short rear ends work great on infinite traction like soiltac and pavement. Not so much when things get bouncy & greasy.
I would expect the PB reviewers are capable of filtering out pricing and spec differences, and I believe when this field test was launched they said they are going to be more assertive with brands about not sending the silly priced top-end models for review.
It's a waste of all our time TBH (see also that Giant with Live Valve, FFS).
If you enjoy listening to mtb podcasts feel free to check out a podcast that I recently created. The first episode is for beginner mountain bikers, and people who are new to the sport, but in the future I am hoping to get into more advanced topics. Feel free to give it a listen!
anchor.fm/antoine-dubois/episodes/1--What-is-Mountain-Biking-en355v
Cheers and any support is much appreciated!