First Ride: The 2022 Ibis Exie is Made in USA & Ready to Race

Jun 30, 2021
by Richard Cunningham  

Pajaro experiment
FIRST LOOK
Ibis Reveals a New XC Race Bike
WORDS: R. Cunningham
PHOTOS: Saris Mercanti
Pajaro Crew (left to right): Preston Sandusky, Travis McCart, Scot Nicol, Ruben Reyes, Hans Heim, Colin Hughes, Sara Passantino, Justo Gallardo, and Jesus Villarruel.

Ibis Cycles celebrates its 40-year anniversary this year - about as long as the mountain bike has existed. I’d excuse any brand who could make such a claim for celebrating it with a six-figure “We were there before you were born” video production, along with commemorative graphics and a glitzy follow-up marketing campaign.

Hate to be the spoiler, but the folks at Ibis were too busy for any of that nonsense. To mark the occasion, Ibis worked in secret for three years: first, to develop a competitive dual-suspension cross-country race bike; and second, to build a factory near their Santa Cruz, California, headquarters where they could manufacture and assemble it. Those are awfully big checks to write for a small bike brand, but Ibis managed to cash both by their 40th birthday. Here’s the exclusive story.


Pajaro experiment
The Exie was conceived to be light enough to trade paint with any World Cup race bike and tough enough to step into the trail bike arena.

Meet Exie

Few industries are more overpopulated with clever marketing hacks than cycling. Compound that with a worldwide abundance of internet domain squatters and it seems inconceivable that the simplest name for a cross-country mountain bike escaped their nets. Exie, right?

Exie is first and foremost a 29-inch-wheel cross-country machine, but the natural-finish carbon frame’s minimal looking profile stops short of the more spindly designs on the World Cup Circuit, and that’s no accident. Ibis steered towards survivable design elements and away from cereal-box weight shavers like pencil-thin stays, press-in bottom brackets and pivotless suspension.

To their credit, a medium-sized Exie weighs only a fraction over 22 pounds (sans water bottle and pedals) - an impressive number, further sweetened by the fact that it comes with a dropper post and Ibis’ seven year frame warranty.
Exie Details

• Wheel size: 29"
• Travel: 100mm rear / 120mm front
• Carbon Frame / dw-link suspension
• Proportional geometry between sizes
• 67.2-degree head angle
• Price range: $7,999 to $12,799
• Frame only: $4,499 (with Fox DPS2 shock)
• Colors: Natural carbon
• Sizes: Small, medium large, X-large
• Weight: 22.2 lb / 10.1kg complete, 4.4 lb / 2kg frame & shock (size medium, claimed)
Ibis Cycles

Ibis won’t be sponsoring a World Cup XC team in the near future and they understand that most Exies will be owned by privateers, many of whom pay retail prices and must train and race on the same bike. Its 100mm travel dw-Link rear suspension pivots on a combination of cartridge bearings and bushings that carry a lifetime replacement warranty. Using a low leverage ratio and a conventional-length 190 x 45mm shock ensures suspension support for a wide range of rider weights, and frames are available in four sizes, each with an adjusted seat tube angle and front center to keep racers in their climbing sweet spots.

Pajaro experiment
Internal guides are molded in place and emerge flush and finished after the curing process.
Pajaro experiment
dw-Link rear suspension and remote lockouts for best-of-both-worlds pedaling.

Features & Geometry

The Exie's internal cables and hoses are routed through molded-in pipes while, depending upon frame size, you’ll have room for two water bottles inside the frame. Molded chainstay padding keeps the Exie silent running and, paying homage to downcountry riders, Ibis kept the Exie’s seat tube low and arrow straight in case its owner opts for a maximum-stroke dropper post upgrade. Oh yeah, and there’s room for a 2.4-inch tire in the back.

Pajaro experiment
Sturdy clevis pivots transfer stiffness to the swingarm. The second full-size bottle is a tight fit, but it's there if you need it.
Pajaro Experiment
Molded chainstay protector is as slim as it can be made and still manage to silence chain interference.

About the numbers: Ibis chose to reel in some of the stem length that traditional XC racers prefer and make up that distance by lengthening the Exie’s front center. Reach begins at 413mm for small frames and increases across four size-options to 513mm for the X-large model. With only 100mm of rear-suspension travel, the Exie can get away with an intelligently low, 339mm bottom bracket height. Head tube angles are sit at a relatively neutral 67.2 degrees, while all sizes share the same, 435mm chainstay length.

Exie’s effective seat tube angle bucks contemporary “Steeper is better” logic, but not by much. Ibis’ reasoning is to conserve energy, especially during extended climbs. Today’s upright seat tube angles, combined with extended front centers are best suited for steeper and more technical climbs. That combination helps to maintain a more balanced position over the bike at extreme gradients and keeps the front wheel properly weighted. The tradeoff for that aggressive climbing stance, however, is two-fold. First, it transfers a measure of the rider’s weight from the saddle to the handlebars, which can be tiresome on flat sections and mild up-grades. Second, unless you happen to be tall, that forward weight shift tends to erode rear-wheel traction when the grades aren’t stupid steep.

Exie Geometry
Pajaro Experiment

Ibis discovered through testing that a milder seat tube angle lets the saddle counter much of the rider’s leg power, which saves energy that the rider would have otherwise expended needlessly through upper body muscles. To balance the Exie fore and aft, Ibis gradually increases the seat tube angle as the frame sizes grow. In this way, short riders gain the rear-wheel traction they need, while taller riders, who typically suffer from too much weight transfer to the rear, are moved forward to keep their front wheels comfortably pinned to the ground. I spent two days riding the Exie on a variety of trails near Santa Cruz to test that theory.

When you can get one: Ibis will release the Exie this summer as a frame with a Fox Factory DPS Remote shock for $4,499 USD and in three builds, all suspended by Fox Factory DPS Remote shocks and Step-Cast 120mm forks: a $7,999 version based on Shimano Deore XT components, a SRAM X01 version for $9,199, and an all-in version for $12,799 that features SRAM XX1 AXS, Shimano XTR, Enve, Industry Nine and Cane Creek goodness.

Why Put So Much Effort Into a Niche Market?

The creation of Exie was inevitable. Ibis has always had one foot in the lightweight game. Hans Heim, the man who revitalized Ibis, is an unapologetic cross-country geek. His daughter Lili was a powerhouse among Northern California’s NICA high school racing leagues, of which Ibis has been a substantial supporter. (Some say that Ibis’ DV9 carbon hardtail was largely created for Lili and her NICA compatriots.)

It's also no secret that technical race tracks at the World Cup level have both rejuvenated interest in cross-country competition and challenged traditional
Ibis DV9
Ibis' affordable DV9 carbon hardtail was designed for up-and-coming competitors. Like Hans' daughter Lili.
bike designs. In response, Hans initiated the Exie project with a short list of specifications: It had to be competitive at the highest level, reasonably priced, adept at handling technical terrain, and its frame (size medium with a real shock) had to weigh less than 4.4 pounds (2kg). Everything else was negotiable.

The end of an era: For decades, the evolution of World Cup XC race bikes was: take a pro road frame, widen the rear stays, slacken the head tube a couple of degrees and raise it high enough to clear a 100mm-stroke fork. Squeak it through testing and give it a weight limit – Boom! To add rear suspension, begin with your hardtail, minimize travel to 100 millimeters or less, eliminate swingarm pivots, overdrive the tiniest shock you can find, squeeze it through testing, and give it a weight limit – Done!

That’s great if your customer demographic fixates on blue-trail KOMs and thinks six raisins, three poached anchovies and a tablespoon of peas is dinner. As Ibis zeroed in on the Exie’s geometry, however, the new bike was becoming a capable descender – to the point where the staff were pushing test mules far beyond the bike’s original design envelope.

Pajaro Experiment
Ibis employee Scott Bellicitti test flys an Exie prototype over a local jump line.

bigquotesWhen we started riding the prototypes we realized we made the frames too capable for 100mm forks. You just ended up riding it so hard. We changed to a 120mm fork and that made it hard to hit our weight and strength targets. It delayed developments by a few months, but resulted in a better bike.Colin Hughes

Future-proofing the Exie to survive in a much more aggressive environment meant increasing the frame’s strength without busting Hans' maximum weight goal. Solving that puzzle meant reshuffling three pounds of paper-thin unidirectional carbon fiber across nine feet of frame tubing until they found the razor’s edge between minimum weight and maximum strength.



I got enough saddle time aboard the Exie to predict that a lot of riders are going to fall in love with this bike. Day one began with about seven miles of fireroad climbing through redwood forests, followed by a roller-coaster ride down a handful of trails that would have forced me to pay close attention aboard a 150-millimeter travel trail bike. Recent rains ensured a fair mix of hero traction and whoa-nelly grease which added to the fun. Day two began with a couple miles of fast-paced singletrack climbing that was punctuated by punchy technical sections. Back in the woods, we chased each other up and down a series of trails that emulated modern World Cup XCO tracks - lots of elevation changes, spiced with roots and blue-line features and couple of flat out luge runs to keep it exciting.

There's a lot to say about the Exie, but what impressed me most was that I never had to think about the bike. Uphill transitions between seated and out-of-the-saddle efforts were seamless. Not once did I anticipate the mass of the bike under acceleration. Not once did I pause to consider its ability to ace a tricky line. Climbing and cornering traction were ample and predictable.

My medium sized Exie was outfitted Ibis' first-level Shimano XT build, with a traction upgrade to 2.35" Schwalbe Hans Dampf tires. The fork was a 120mm-stroke Fox Step-cast, so setup was easy. I used 15-percent sag on both ends to pretend I was a racer and set the rebound a little slower than I need for rocky San Diego because the forest floor there was much more forgiving. Tire pressure was
Pajaro experiment
No glove compartment, nothing to hide: Adhering to the Exie's original design goals was largely responsible for its simple profile.
my usual, 23psi front and 25psi rear. The resulting ride felt firm when cranking out of the saddle, but not to the point where the bike got jostled around in the rocks and roots.

I downsized from long-travel enduro-style bikes a number of years ago. My daily driver is a Pivot Switchblade with 137mm of rear-wheel travel and a 150mm fork. Sans pedals, it weighs 29.8 pounds, which qualifies as a lightweight among modern trail bikes. My first pedal strokes aboard the Exie, however, were a paradigm shift. Shedding eight pounds makes a big difference. I expect right-now acceleration from any cross country bike and the Exie offers that in two flavors. For sprints and fast paced hard-surface sections, push the dual-lockout lever and the Exie morphs into a flat-bar gravel bike. (Disclosure: My bike didn't have this feature, so I had to manually fake it.) For everything else, its dw-link rear suspension keeps the tires planted while ensuring that the bike spurts forward with every precious pedal stroke.

One thing I didn't anticipate was how well a significantly lighter weight bike could communicate what is going on beneath the wheels - and it does so without delivering a harsh ride. The Exie's frame has very little mass, so it can transfer a clearer signal from the tire's contact patch to the rider's contact points. Braking to the edge of lockup or feeling for traction up steep, rooty climbs is much easier when the bicycle feels like an extension of your hands and feet. Exie riders will appreciate this even more on the downhills.

Where riders on heavier bicycles with more rotating mass can rely on their bikes to plow through scary sections, a lightweight bicycle with carbon racing wheels contributes much less to the stability equation. The rider must make up that difference, so
Water bottles
Exies will be shipped with remote lockout forks and shocks. Neither were available for my visit due to this year's supply chain issues.
being able to sense that something is going wrong before it actually does allows you to stay ahead of the bike at speed and in adverse situations. I could feel the tread blocks giving way well before the tires broke loose around corners.

Saving the best for last, Ibis got the Exie's geometry right, both for its stated purpose as a cross country racer and for its inevitable destiny as an ambassador for trail bike sanity. Its steering feels light and precise. Overcook a corner and it settles into an easy drift until it can find more grip, and its adjusted reach and seat tube angles place the rider in a sweet spot that feels remarkably well balanced in almost all situations. As advertised, its 73.8-degree seat tube angle encouraged rear-wheel traction when climbs became dicey and gave my arms and shoulders a rest while I was powering in the saddle. And, it cast some doubt whether or not the neopopular forward-and-aggressive steep seat tube stance is best for every rider. One aspect that I'm sure of, however, is the Exie's 67.2 degree head angle, which was an excellent compromise: slack enough to keep me hungry for blue lines to turn black without creating an unnecessary workload to keep the bike on line while I was climbing.

Experiencing the Exie's calm demeanor in the handling department, combined with enviable efficiency at the pedals was an a-ha moment for me. I had yet to throw a leg over a cross-country race bike that was so easy to ride and never this enjoyable. It was once believed that XC races were won on the climbs, so every aspect of a race bike was dedicated to that solitary purpose. The reality, however, is that races are won at the finish line. Time and energy wasted by bouncing around on a non-compliant chassis and by forced errors due to poor handling compound quickly. The Exie's blend of new-school geometry with dash of sensible restraint ensures that more of the effort you expend during a race will be directed towards the finish line. For trail riders, the equation is simpler: Less fuss, more fun.

Would Exie qualify as a World Cup XC racer? Considering that my last cross-country race was the 24 Hours of the Old Pueblo, I can only speculate, but it checks the boxes. No secret that choosing a lightweight dual suspension bike is the fastest way to get around a modern XCO course, which leaves short track as the last reason to bring a hardtail to a World Cup. But as I say this, dual-suspension bikes earned runaway victories in both the men's and women's event at Leogang. Pinkbike has a couple of cross-country speedsters on staff who will surely shed more light on this subject in an upcoming review. My bet? Yes, it could.

Could Exie be your ultimate trail bike? It could be, but you'll need skills. There are a lot of accomplished bike-handlers who have never ridden a truly lightweight mountain bike. For them, the Exie will be a revelation that will earn a lot of converts. Nino Schurter would have little trouble shredding his Scott Spark down an EWS stage, but most riders need the generous margin of error that a slacker, heavier, longer-travel trail bike affords to enjoy, or just survive that same experience. That said, Exie is the first cross-country racer I've lusted after in over twenty years. I've been dreaming about bigger mountains, longer rides and exploratory adventures ever since, but it's not everyone's trail bike.
RC chuffing up a hill
Hans Heim photo

Epilogue

Somehow, cross-country trail bikes became enduro racers. Then, as enduro bikes approached the technical capability of DH machines, they invalidated most reasons for owning a Big Bike beyond racing and Rampage-level freeride. The downside of enduro machines, however, was in the weight and drag penalties they incurred to win that battle. Now, enduro bikes are suffering a similar fate as riders grow weary of chuffing 35-pound marshmallows uphill to enjoy three minutes of descending and are opting for e-MTBs to fast-forward the climbing segments of their double-black playtime. A sizeable vacuum formed in the wake of this overindulgence for an unapologetically lightweight trail bike armed with capable geometry which is truly enjoyable to pedal. That's what the Exie is - and if you want, you can race it too.


413 Comments

  • 251 24
 Pinkbike Comments: CHINA BAD, MAKE IN AMERICA PLS
Also Comments: $4500 frame?!?! Lol I can buy anything else I want on earth for that much! Get lost Ibis!
  • 103 30
 Here is an American made short travel bike that you can buy for the same price as the Ibis frame.

ridegg.com/products/trailpistol?option=Ride
  • 58 24
 How dare they pay the workers a livable wage!
  • 49 9
 GG charges $2500 for a frame? Made in USA…
  • 25 1
 @HB208: How do the weights compare?
  • 83 8
 @pmhobson: The GG is like 2 pounds heavier. Massive difference.
  • 31 2
 @Frontrange: it’s like $2800 when you add the shock. And it’s 3 pounds heavier. Weight reduction is always expensive! Personally I value weight at $0.50 a gram but I’m no xc rider.
  • 21 1
 @lefthandohvhater: *8* lbs -- GG lists the trail pistol as 30.4 lbs.
  • 63 16
 @HB208: That's like saying you could buy a Ford Taurus instead of a Tesla P90
  • 8 1
 @pmhobson: compare frame + shock. Components wise you can get either pretty low.
  • 33 40
flag HB208 (Jun 30, 2021 at 10:07) (Below Threshold)
 @pmhobson: The point isn't the weight. The point is that GG manufactures in the US without charging $4.5k for a frame. They are different categories of bike anyways.
  • 46 4
 @HB208: Have you looked at the build kits? The top fork option is a Pike RC+. You're comparing a 31 pound short travel trail bike to a 22 pound XC race bike with lockouts. I love GG and I love Ibis but comparing these two bikes makes no sense whatsoever. That is 4100 grams heavier, in a sport where people are comfortable talking about paying $2/gram to save weight.
  • 18 2
 @Mtmw: The frame itself is 2 pounds heavier. That is the only reasonable metric to compare.
  • 23 31
flag HB208 (Jun 30, 2021 at 10:17) (Below Threshold)
 @Mtmw: I am talking about general manufacturing. The fact that a fully specced American made bike comes in at the same price as a frame made in CA makes me think that Ibis should have set up this factory in a different area of the country. You are insane if you do not think that the location of the factory does not push up the price pretty significantly. The trail pistol frame is a full $2k cheaper than the Ibis. Clearly it is possible to produce in the US and not charge $4.5k and it is a lazy excuse for the pricing to say "well, it is made in the USA."
  • 3 3
 @HB208: I’ve been eying GG for awhile, but would like to test ride one. Also been eying a Ripmo carbon, but they are just too expensive right now. However, before COVID there were deals to be had. Hoping things will slow down and within next couple years will see inventory and better prices. In the mean time I rebuilt by 2016 Reign Carbon with XO, carbon hoops, Smashpot and DVO, it a ripper. Would like the Reign’s seat tube angle steeper to help with the climbs.
  • 7 1
 @HB208: have you see what property costs in Denver lately? Location costs are probably comparable.
  • 11 2
 @Frontrange: without a shock. It's a little misleading. Add the shock back in and you're back at (or above) the $3k mark.
  • 11 2
 @TrailFeatures: Lol livable wage. Definitely not subjective at all considering the housing market.
  • 8 5
 @gonzocycle: The tax environment for business is likely not. But I also wouldn't recommend setting up a factory in Denver. Honestly, Bentonville could have been a good choice.
  • 7 7
 @pgomez: but then drop a blown LS3 in the taurus......which one you wanna drive more??? lol
  • 15 5
 @HB208: Also the point everyone touting GG missed, same front triangle and chainstays for all bikes - that saves a ton of money when it comes to manufacturing.

Also not 100% carbon frame- seatstays are still AL.
  • 48 0
 GG bikes are modular and all models share the same front triangle. With the rear triangle being different for each model. GG can mass produce front triangles for like 5 different bikes which effectively cuts their production costs and R&D by a sizeable margin. If they wanna make a new bike, all they need to develop is a new rear triangle. It'll save them money and time. GG clearly is passing on their savings to consumers which is nice. BUT GG bikes are not full carbon either. And they're heavy AF.

The new Ibis is a one-off design, full carbon, and a lot lighter but without the cost cutting and efficiency of GG's manufacturing processes. So yea, while both the Ibis and GG are made in the USA, the way they approach R&D and manufacturing are quite different.
  • 5 18
flag HB208 (Jun 30, 2021 at 10:32) (Below Threshold)
 @TheOriginalTwoTone: I am not saying Ibis could have produced this bike for $2,500 in a different area. They might have been able to get it down to $3,500 though.
  • 23 15
 @HB208: Not an apples to apple comparison. GG doesn't make anything close to high-end.
  • 14 2
 SB165 frames are also $4,500
  • 19 0
 The engineering behind reducing weight is expensive. Higher frame weight means it's easier to make it stronger. Lower frame weight means lots of engineering skill, trial, error, testing, etc. The increase in cost isn't purely the result of greed and / or location - it's also a result of the frame being significantly lighter than the GG...

Given that GG are keeping front triangle between frames means that they can save costs (at a weight penalty), whereas this is a completely new frame requiring investment.

Both excellent bikes, but completely different making direct comparison very difficult...
  • 9 1
 @HB208: Why would they? I assume Ibis has done their homework and determined that value propositions of the Exie warrants the price.
  • 10 4
 Made in USA is the unique value prop here so they are going to milk it. They have no sales advantage if they are going to invest local and charge the same as Taiwanese bikes. They know a specific subset of users will not think twice about spending over 1k more and this is the market they care about, not the common man or woman. Expect the dentist to complete his frameset with overpriced Enve components.
  • 18 0
 Also, yes it may be cheaper to manufacture in other areas of the US, but that's not the only factor. Perhaps they don't want to consider relocating the business and all the staff. They may lose skills and expertise that they need to pay for in time and training? Perhaps the location is local to a port or carbon facility and reduces supply chain costs? Perhaps that move would have cost a lot of money meaning that the frame ended up being just as expensive (or more!). It's too simplistic to just say they should have moved.

I do agree that it is a VERY expensive frame, but it's a niche market and I'm sure they'll not struggle to sell them.
  • 28 1
 @Almazing: This. The GG bikes are awesome for the price, but not an apples to apples comparison.

As I said in another thread, Issues with comparing Ibis to GG is the manufacturing process. GG uses a resin casting system that allows them to stamp out frames that are super strong. However, they are not nearly as light (or supple) as the standard hand layup method of carbon.

You also brought up a great point about how they use the same front and just make different linkage/swing arms to make a different bike. Awesome for keeping costs down and for people like me that love to play with their bike like Legos. I would also like to add that the GG frames can actually be recycled into a new frame, where a standard carbon frame goes into the landfill

But at that end of the day, two very different methods for two very different requirements.

So, maybe let's just be happy companies are actually trying to bring production back to the US?
  • 8 1
 @HB208: you're not comparing apples to apples, mate
  • 6 4
 @pgomez: Ford Taurus SHO Wink
  • 11 1
 @HB208: Watsonville industrial park real estate isn’t all that expensive. Given the rest of ibis infrastructure is already in the general area, I’m guessing the overall cost savings for such a relatively small facility being relocated to somewhere with significantly lower wages would be negligible. That’s not even considering the opportunity cost loss by not having designers, production and testing in the same place with year round riding. It’s not like ENVE is affordable for most people even though Ogden is among the cheaper pleases to live in the US.
  • 3 1
 Santa Cruz home vale index is double of Denver’s@gonzocycle:
  • 2 0
 It’s rad they named a town after Glen Benton of deicide!@HB208:
  • 11 1
 It should be noted that because GG uses the same front triangle for the 120mm Trail Pistol as it does the 160mm Gnarvana, the front triangle alone is really heavy.

If GG wanted, it could probably shed a few pounds from the Trail Pistol if it got a DEDICATED front triangle.

GG recently had the Trail Pistol SL "Plaid" limited edition that was 26lbs with a SID LUX and SID 35 front fork. That bike still utilized the half-pound heavier aluminum chainstays. In theory, you should be able to get the TP down to 25lbs-ish. Again, that'd be riding a bike with the same front triangle as a 160mm/180mm Gnarvana, so they'd be no worries about strength.
  • 4 0
 @gonzocycle: GG was there before things were crazy nuts in Denver. In addition, GG is right near Mile High /off Federal where until not that long ago, was a shifty area. Until last year, I lived just south of GG near Ruby Hill
  • 7 4
 I came directly to the comments.
+4kusd, LOL
  • 3 0
 @HB208: Yep and apparently their process is much faster. When they get the Smash back up for ordering, I may get one!
  • 5 8
 @pgomez: You can also by a Cayman GTS 4.0 instead of a P90 and have a real car.
  • 4 1
 No more than a pivot barely more than a Santa cruz
  • 1 3
 Don't forget...Head tube angle too steep/shallow and seat tube angle too steep/shallow.
  • 1 0
 @Tigergoosebumps: give it a month Smile
  • 5 6
 @Frontrange: Yeah, but then you are stuck on a GG frame...I'll gladly pony up the $2k for the Ibis
  • 2 2
 @lefthandohvhater: and its not ibis of course lol. nice bunch of guys but none of their bikes compare to any ibis
  • 2 1
 @TheOriginalTwoTone: THat also means the engineering is wrong as you dont need the same strength / weight profile on a 120 DC bike as you do on a 160 enduro sled. By definition there has to be alot of compromise built in to do that.
  • 2 1
 @Almazing: Also why would you want to ride a front triangle heavy / strong enough for an enduro sled if you want a 120mm trail shredder?
  • 2 0
 @blackthorne: In the US maybe but for the rest of the world whether a frame is made in Taiwan or the USA makes no difference what so ever
  • 6 3
 @pgomez: Thats a sh1t analogy. Both this Ibis and a GG are high-performance trail bikes. In fact, I'd argue that the GG is the better bike for general trail ripping, assuming you care as-much or more about the descending than the climbing.

I think a better analogy: "you could buy a Corvette or a Ferrari". Decidedly similar vehicles with comparable performance, separated principally by their refinement and production run size. Wink
  • 16 1
 A lot of GG owners bounce around between bike setups. Me personally, I like the idea that if I wanted to move to a bigger travel bike, it'd cost me $800 instead of $4000.

I also like that the bike is overbuilt. Yea, it's heavy for its relative travel, but I also didn't buy the bike to race XC. I built it to be ridden anywhere reliably.

The folks who buy an Epic, Spark, or this Exie, are not looking for a "one bike quiver" they are looking for a purebred race machine. They either A) don't have a longer travel bike, or B) have a few other high end bikes for other purposes.

I wanted one bike, to be adaptable, modular, reliable, and built in the USA. GG set out to be different. Low overheads, engaged customers, innovative domestic manufacturing. There are plenty of examples of bike brands using Taiwanese manufactured frames. Revel comes to mind. In my mind, that just makes them a "Brand" not a manufacturer. Unless your overseas factory produces bikes for you exclusively, you've got a "Brand". GG is a Brand and a Manufacturer. Now Ibis is as well.

I highly doubt either is threatened by the other's existence - so no need for hate of either Ibis nor GG.
  • 5 2
 @KJP1230: the idea that xc bikes don't descend well is funny.
  • 2 0
 @TheOriginalTwoTone: one of the models is full carbon.
  • 8 2
 I respect Ibis for making the frame stateside if no other reason is cuts way down on shipping issues like emissions, boats stuck in canals, etc...But its pretty silly to compare a GG frame that is using the same front triangle as their long travel Enduro model to a XC whippet frame. Personally I think the carbon technology that GG is using is superior to traditional layup designs for a variety of reasons, and they're now making full carbon frames for some models (eventually all models), so that should help the weight a bit. But in the end, if you're running around on a 4 to 5 lb carbon frame, its going to break (a lot) if you ride hard. If I was into long-distance death slogs and/or XC racing, the Ibis would be a great choice. But if I want to smash legit terrain, occasionally clip a few big jumps (or go way long) and still have a decent build weight, the GG is awfully tough to beat.
  • 3 0
 @Themissinglink83: "well" is very subjective
  • 5 0
 @Themissinglink83: It's not really "funny", its relative to one's perception. Do XC bikes descend as well as full on enduro bikes with 62.5 degree HA and 170-180mm of travel? Absolutely not. Not even close. Do XC bikes descend well compared to XC bikes from 2005? Probably markedly better, yes.
  • 7 0
 @kylar: $0.50/ gram? Who’s your guy?
  • 7 1
 GG still quotes the old frame weight for some reason? Full carbon Trail Pistol is around 300g lighter.

Trail Pistol frame + shock = 6.9 ish. First thing everyone says is its heavy
Yeti SB130 frame + shock = 6.9 lbs. No one says a word
SC tallboy frame + shock = 6.8 lbs with fox dps

GG Gnarvana frame + shock = 7.9 with CC Kitsuma air
Yeti SB150 frame + shock = 7.7 with an X2
SC megatower = cant find a publushed weight but judging by full build weight, at least 7.75.
  • 3 7
flag stubestrong (Jun 30, 2021 at 22:58) (Below Threshold)
 $4500 and already dated geo XC/DC geo out the box
  • 3 0
 @masoneley1: I don’t want to give anyone up here but first name rhymes with bornelius and last name rhymes with rapfinger.
  • 1 0
 30lbs vs 22lbs for the Ibis.
  • 2 0
 @KJP1230: for the trails that most people ride a modern xc bike is more than capable. I wouldn't want to ride a 2005 gravity bike either.
  • 6 0
 @HB208: Well, you should watch their video and you’ll get the gist. These guys have a background in bike design, manufacturing techniques and many other things bike related that we probably aren’t able to even think about. They are in the game for fourty years now. They are at their fourth version of the Mojo, one of the first full monocoque CF frame. Do you honestly believe they did not figure out that the manufacturing location impacts the cost ? They simply wanted to do a bike project all by themselves, near where they all live. And sell a super lightweight super strong XC bike at a price point some people are willing to pay. Not using thermoplastic.
  • 8 0
 @stubestrong: Dated to you. There are plenty of people who the trend of ridiculous steep seat tubes & long reach don't work for.
Not everyone falls for every new trend
  • 1 1
 @lefthandohvhater: but they did make the trail pistol race SL at like 26 pounds
  • 1 1
 @cogsci: What's your definition of high end? Expensive?
  • 6 1
 You can't even compare these two frames, Apples to Oranges, Single pivot vs DW link adjustable geometry instead of optimized geometry and carbon layup the list goes on. Both companies have done something great by getting creative to make it in the USA, this is awesome to see. Way to go Ibis!
  • 2 0
 @tcubed: GG is horst link. Regardless. I place value in durability and will happily take the weight penalty for it. Doesn't hurt that it comes at discount either. I understand where you're coming from though. Good for Ibis.
  • 5 2
 @HB208: The downvotes you're getting here are comical. Shows how stupid some people are.
  • 1 1
 @hangdogr: vs. $4500...
  • 1 2
 @TheOriginalTwoTone: They're full carbon now. For the last year or so...
  • 1 2
 @Almazing: They ARE full carbon, frame weight is 6lbs without shock on the trail pistol with the new carbon stays.
  • 4 1
 @Frontrange: Its whatever, I don't care. People complain tooth and nail about bike pricing and then complain when someone complains about a $4.5k frame dropping. I never even said that GG and this Ibis frame are apples to apples. I was just saying that there are American made brands that don't need to charge $4.5k for a frame.

And yeah, I could "afford" this bike if I really wanted to spend that kind of money. I am happy with my Spur though and if I did get an XC bike it would probably be the Spark.
  • 3 2
 @splsce: Hanging light parts on a heavy frame isn't an accomplishment- anyone can do that.
  • 2 0
 @Frontrange: Wrong, only one model.
  • 2 1
 @HB208: If you didn't think they were apples to apples then whats the point of mentioning the price difference?
  • 2 1
 @TheOriginalTwoTone: The point is that it is possible to do affordable manufacturing in the US. So yeah, they use different tech, but I think Ibis could have learned a bit from GG.
  • 1 0
 @stubestrong: Don't think of it as a DC bike. It's an XC race (like UCI XCO & XCC races) bike.
  • 2 1
 @Themissinglink83: I think you're over-indexing on your perception of "trails most people ride". I'm not sure where you live, but I'm going to guess that a very large percentage of mountain bike purchasing happens in the western/mountain states for the US. And many, even a majority, of our trails out here warrant at least a 130-140mm bike, if not a full on enduro sled.

I am lucky to live in Colorado, and as such I probably encounter 10,000+ unique riders at my trail heads each year. Our daily rider trails are equivalent to DH bike park blues and blacks. For this reason, all the guys I ride with ride enduro bikes, and we rarely see true XC bikes on our trails.

Again, I'm not saying these trails cannot be ridden on an XC bike. But it would take some serious skill, with increased risk of crashes at a much slower descending pace to ride many of our trails.
  • 2 0
 @HB208: Perhaps, but to the best of my knowledge, GG doesn't license out their technology to others. Maybe I'm wrong about that.
  • 2 0
 @HB208: Learn what? Look not trying to bash GG but they are much simpler design. I don't think making the Ripmo, Ripley, Mojo & HD from one triangle is a good idea.
  • 3 0
 @KJP1230: I live in idaho, and worked for the FS/BLM for 14 years so yea, I have a pretty good idea of what the trails in the west look like. Most of them don't need an Enduro bike to ride. Watch a WC xc race and tell me you need a 140+mm trail to ride your local singletrack...
  • 6 0
 @Themissinglink83: While I agree a lot of people are over-biked,

1) that might be their one bike that gets used on a variety of terrain around the country (in other words, I shouldn't judge, I don't know their life)
2) the skills and capabilities of world class athletes who are genetic freaks focused solely on eeking out seconds in laps around race venues aren't really germane to the discussion of what people should be riding at their local trails.
  • 3 0
 @Themissinglink83: The position you are taking in your comments is "XC bikes sure can descend well!" and "most trails don't require more than an XC bike!" My point to you is this: saying this out loud is moronic.

Look, I'm glad you get your jolly's from riding rugged technical trails on an XC rig. But there is no way that you are as fast on the descents on that XC rig as you would be on a 140mm trail bike, at 155mm AM bike, or a 170 mm Enduro bike. And if what you crave (as many of us do) is earnin' your turns and rippin' the descents, than a pure XC race bike is not the correct choice, nor does it descend well compared to these other bikes.

When I look at the KOM's for all descent segments in my area, you know what kind of bikes I don't see in the top 50-100? XC bikes.
  • 2 3
 @Frontrange: yeah but GG bikes are way heavier and little advantage over an alloy unless you’re a 20 something x games contender
  • 1 1
 @juansevo: they are not heavier than most other high end trail or enduro frames.
  • 1 0
 @KJP1230: you're making me lol here.
  • 1 0
 @TheOriginalTwoTone: obviously, the point was it didn’t have to be “heavy”
  • 1 0
 @splsce:If you those parts on a different frame- it'll be the same difference between the two.
  • 1 1
 Had me at the raw carbon then lost me at the price.
  • 1 0
 what did you end up buying for 4500? just curious..
  • 1 0
 @HB208: better read the frame warranty page carefully before you buy
  • 1 0
 @zachyc: Cost and quality of inputs | cost and quality of mfg.
  • 1 2
 @blandyroo: Apparently that warranty page is meaningless.
www.mtbr.com/threads/gg-trail-pistol-full-carbon-a-tale-of-woeful-quality-and-heartbreak.1190677
Cliff notes. Guy orders a GG in Australia, gets a defective frame and GG wants him to pay shipping both ways to replace a frame they should have never shipped in the first place.
I guess that's the kind of service a cheaper price gets ya.
  • 115 4
 Ibis Exie Ibi sExie I bi sexie I be sexy You dirty dogs!
  • 2 0
 Congrats u have broken the record to reach 100 kudos with no replies
  • 95 3
 That frame weight is within 200 grams of Scott's claimed weight for their new Spark. Depending on the different sizes, paint, and other nonsense games they play, they could be even close. I'm calling that a win, since the DW link can typically pedal more efficiently than a single pivot with a flex-stay. Great job Ibis!
  • 49 71
flag Frontrange (Jun 30, 2021 at 9:49) (Below Threshold)
 Except the scott actually looks good…
  • 11 47
flag MX298 (Jun 30, 2021 at 9:51) (Below Threshold)
 Ibis making bikes in the USA . . . . sponsoring foreign racers!
  • 1 2
 its like calling Fat, Phat. You know what it is, just dont want everyone to know
  • 23 4
 Lol, you can get a complete Spark with a GX AXS drivetrain and XT brakes for $1k more than the Ibis frame price though.
  • 4 1
 @Frontrange: Completely subjective. I'm guessing there are enough people that prioritize function over form.
  • 24 2
 You'd have to be pretty oblivious to believe that Scott didn't tune their suspension for maximum efficiency. If anyone knows how to do it, its them. Also compared to the new Spark RC, this is ridiculously bad value for money. For the same price as an Exie Frameset, you can get a Spark RC with a full Shimano XT build and carbon wheels.
  • 6 5
 @BenTheSwabian: a DW link bike pedals and descends way better than any single pivot bike ever will. or any multilink bike for that matter. You just pay a 100-200gr penalty, which doesn't matter for 97.4677777 of xc racers.
  • 9 1
 @Themissinglink83: Apparently you've been drinking the marketing Kool Aid. None of these systems is inherently better at anything than any of the others. It's all about how you set them up. Otherwise how come that none of the big companies have made a DW link XC bike yet? By your logic, DW link bikes would have to be everywhere, but they aren't. Only two niche manufacturers make them and on top of that, the most dominant XC bike of all time (last gen Scott Spark RC) has a linkage driven single pivot system.
  • 4 0
 @BenTheSwabian: even Santa Cruz went away from VPP on their latest Blur.
  • 3 1
 @BenTheSwabian: uh, no. Having the chainstay attached to seattube dramatically limits the ability for the suspension to be tuned, since the instant center is fixed around that pivot. Multilink suspensions perform better, period. I have a DW link Pivot, and a BMC agonist. The suspension is superior to any single pivot xc bike I have owned.
  • 2 1
 @hamncheez: bmc, giant, pivot, yeti have multilink bikes. Cannondale, Norco and rocky mountain have horst link bikes. The idea that single pivots rule xc isn't exactly true at all.
  • 4 0
 @Themissinglink83: that’s like, your opinion man.

I have ridden a bunch of gimmick link bikes and they all feel wonky. Horst link all day for me.
  • 2 1
 @Themissinglink83: Oh right, there we go. It could have been either one of two things, confirmation bias or Kool Aid. Apparently it's confirmation bias.
  • 2 1
 @BenTheSwabian: you can plot the suspension kinematics curves of bikes and evaluate them. It's like science, man.
  • 2 0
 @stubs179: I prefer the APS suspension on my BMC over the DW link on my pivot actually. If I was blindfolded I doubt I could tell the difference between a DW link, Giant or BMC. They all have minimal pedal bob and remain active under braking, which no single pivot I have ever ridden does.
  • 3 1
 @BenTheSwabian: Because the big guys don't want to pay for the DW Link patent. Ibis, Pivot and Turner (RIP Czar)bought into the DW link at the beginning, recognizing for them it was the future and this has proven to be exceptionally profitable for Ibis and Pivot because they are that good! If you know, you know.
  • 4 1
 @gonzocycle: there is a reason you see so many single pivot and Horst bikes...no patents=more profits.
  • 2 0
 Inb4 Canfield is magical
  • 3 1
 @Themissinglink83: there’s a reason most are expensive, they are boutique bikes. Not any better, just jewelry.
  • 3 2
 I would still take the Scott Spark Evo over this Ibis Exie.

Weight: Even
I am looking at the overall numbers of the top of the line bikes for both the Exie and the Spark, and I see both bikes are dead even weight wise, just over 22 lbs.

Looks: Spark
For me, the Spark looks better, and I would choose the Scott based on just the looks alone. That 2021 SCOTT Spark EVO just looks bad ass!

Price/Value: Even
Price wise they are even. The top of the line Spark, SCOTT Spark RC SL EVO, also goes for almost $13k just like the Top of the line Ibis Exie.

Gucci Factor to make us feel better about our bikes: Spark

I have always felt Scott Bikes pedaled great, but in my head Ibis DW Link bikes seems to be slightly better peddlers and rocket forwards more. I am sure if I would time myself with both bikes over the course of a full season I most likely would find them equally fast.
  • 3 0
 @HendersonMike: ya haha this bike isn't exactly a looker
  • 84 0
 Always good to see a RC article!!
  • 2 20
flag carters75 (Jun 30, 2021 at 11:11) (Below Threshold)
 ..
  • 5 0
 f@#k but I do miss RC's writing. That epilogue was amazing
  • 3 0
 RC articles are so damn convincing! Makes me want to get an Exie. Last time I read an article from RC I ended up with a Ripmo AF!
  • 30 0
 Any other top tier XC race bike will cost you 9-13k US dollars and are not made in the USA. Why is there so much bitching about the cost of the USA made Ibis?

the new Spark tops out at 13k
the new Blur tops out at 11,3k
the s works epic tops out at 12k
the yeti sb115 tops out with options around 12k
the trek supercaliber 9.9 tops out at 10k
  • 23 6
 people that lack money, tend to have time to complain. funny that
  • 6 0
 Top level pivot or mondraker is a shocking 15k
  • 1 1
 @Themissinglink83: the F-podium RR is an unbelievable bike in full bling. at just a tick under 21lbs, it's a zero comprimise, bleeding edge geo/tech bike. If you are in the market for a $12k bike, another $3000 isn't the decider for you. or at least it shouldn't be.
  • 1 2
 @conoat: I'm assuming this is aimed at me. I don't lack money. I think bike pricing has gotten to be absurd. When people complain about bikes getting more expensive and then sit there defending a $4.5k frame, that is part of the issue.

Yes, I understand all of the bikes top out at over $10k. If you look at the mid-spec builds, this bike is significantly more expensive. The Epic Expert is a bit over $6k and comes with carbon wheels. The Spark priced at $5,500 comes with GX AXS, etc.
  • 1 1
 @conoat: the irony is most of the people riding those top spec bikes don't actually pay for them. If you got the $$ buy what you want!
  • 2 0
 @conoat: that is a bit of an arrogant thing to say
  • 4 1
 @mhaager2: LOL. how? I didn't say I was in the market, just that if you are capable of spending $12k on a toy, you are also capable of spending 15. if you aren't capable of paying $12k but not 15, then you shouldn't be looking at such an expensive bike, honestly. Common sense and budgeting are a big part of being an adult.
  • 33 1
 But is it ready for the PB comment section...?
  • 30 1
 Looks like an incredibly well-designed and well-engineered bike, and kudos to Ibis for standing up a local MFG facility. Good skilled-labor jobs building things the team can be proud of. Always cheering for those guys. :clap
  • 61 39
 lol $4500 for a frame and shock?!
  • 30 35
flag HB208 (Jun 30, 2021 at 9:10) (Below Threshold)
 Yeah, how are people not pointing this out. Absolutely absurd pricing.
  • 24 2
 I know the xc/roadie crew are used to paying top dollar for their race machines but $4500 for the frame?.

Yeti frames used to be the pinnacle of dentist frames at $3500. Then pole came out with a small production of expensive machined frames, followed by $15 specialized ebikes.

I am going to start printing my own money. There is no other way
  • 16 2
 @psicoizaguirre: Careful, government doesn't like competition
  • 79 3
 Everyone wants US Made. ...Until they see the price tag.
  • 19 13
 @TrailFeatures: You can produce frames in a state that isn't expensive as hell. I mean, they could have set up a manufacturing facility in the South or Midwest, but instead they set it up in an expensive area (relative to the rest of the country).
  • 30 5
 Remember...we want American made, be prepared for American made prices.
  • 89 5
 www.pinkbike.com/news/inside-ibis-us-carbon-manufacturing-facility.html

The Exie takes 35hrs to make, down from 86hrs overseas in above link, which makes it roughly $128/hr to produce. This is on par for shop labor at your LBS and at your local car dealer, if ya do the math with all the info. If it was made in Taiwan it would be cheaper but then yould bitch that it wasnt made in the US.

To all the haters feel free to start your own US made bike company and report back on how well you do in business.
  • 17 16
 @jwelch33: IDK, GG manages to produce American made products without charging $1k more than their nearest competitor (Yeti, SC).
  • 4 5
 @HB208: The number of downvotes to @tkrumroy's comment is the number of dentists that read this article.
  • 13 3
 @HB208: Completely different manufacturing process.
  • 6 6
 @TrailFeatures: I think it is sweet they went for it. But you can get US made frames for pretty competitive pricing. Reeb and Guerilla Gravity are doing it out of Colorado.
  • 10 3
 Time to learn first hand how expensive made in USA is. You can't have it both ways bud. I can't wait to buy one of these!
  • 16 0
 Eh, it's 25% more than a Supercaliber and it's made in USA. Doesn't seem too crazy.
  • 7 7
 @fraserw: For sure, or people that don't seem to understand that producing a bike frame in Northern California is going to be way more expensive than producing it in a mid or low cost of living area.

The median housing price in this area is over $800k (even though it is outside of SC). I have to imagine that if they decided to put this facility in somewhere like NM, Bentonville, or hell, SLC, they could have managed to produce a $3,500 frame.
  • 8 1
 @mtnman4life: after tax we are at UNNO’s frame price but without using that unobtanium carbon that china can’t buy.

Ibis is cool and all that but no UNNO cool. Now you go start a bike company in BCN and report back how well you do!
  • 1 7
flag noapathy (Jun 30, 2021 at 9:44) (Below Threshold)
 @mtnman4life: Is that what factory workers get these days? I mean I know the labor market is screwy now, but c'mon.
  • 7 0
 @noapathy: there is more than just a salary included in that hourly price...
  • 15 3
 @HB208: The GG frame is also heavy as hell.
  • 7 1
 @adrennan: Issues with comparing Ibis to GG is the manufacturing process.

GG uses a resin casting system that allows them to stamp out frames that are super strong. However, they are not as light as the standard hand layup method of carbon.

Reeb uses metal and has refined their process for the Sqweeb and do enough volume on it they can bring the cost down. Look at the cost of a Reeb HT.
  • 6 1
 @TrailFeatures: I was just saying it is being done and its cool that ibis is trying for the more difficult process. People shouldn't knock them for trying and I bet people will buy them. Is this bike for me? no.
  • 1 9
flag noapathy (Jun 30, 2021 at 10:04) (Below Threshold)
 @adrennan: Obviously, but if others (GG) can do it...guess dentists don't like this line of thought...sigh.
  • 5 1
 @HB208: Agreed ridiculous pricing.
  • 17 0
 Some interesting design objectives:
1- “competitive at the highest level”
2- “weigh under 2 kg”
3- “reasonably priced”
Bonus Challenge- Made in the US

Achieving all three would be the modern-day equivalent of alchemy. Achieving all four is delusional.
  • 2 0
 @HB208: Not sure how they pull it off. US produced usually comes with a price tag though.
  • 2 1
 @psicoizaguirre: Unno frames also explode if you look at them sideways.
  • 5 2
 @HB208: Not just housing prices, California also has insane taxes and silly regulations. I'd like one, but the cost bump will make it hard to justify.
  • 6 0
 It's hand-laid carbon made in California. An Unno Burn costs 5,000€ for carbon made in Spain. That's just what first-world labor costs.
  • 2 6
flag HB208 (Jun 30, 2021 at 10:15) (Below Threshold)
 @Hayek: I have a way to help with 3. Produce it somewhere that doesn't have 3x the median housing prices, high taxes, high labor costs.
  • 2 3
 @HB208: but that only leaves them 45 states to choose from! And doing that would bring jobs to an area that doesn’t already have the 5th largest GDP in the world. Sounds risky.
  • 7 3
 @adrennan: when GG figures out a way to cut 2 lbs off it's carbon frame then we can compare.
  • 8 0
 know how much a Yeti is? lol

SB165 frameset is......*drumroll*......$4500
  • 5 4
 @Hayek: Super risky. They could have even crossed the border and produced these in Reno...
  • 3 1
 Isnt an Sworks epic 6K? I know it comes with a fork so take off 1200 for that, and it is a 4,800 frame and shock. Both bikes are beyond my budget but it is not insane to what is out there.
  • 1 0
 @Frontrange: Yeah, good luck with that.
  • 5 2
 @eroc43: It's $3,750. And it's not like S-Works is known for being a good value.

www.specialized.com/us/en/s-works-epic-frameset/p/154348?color=239096-154348&searchText=70319-0305
  • 1 0
 @eroc43: but as I’m sure we would all almost unanimously agree, that’s also not a “reasonably priced” frame.
  • 3 0
 That price might be high for privateers if they're the targeted buyers.
  • 1 0
 frame, shock, fork
  • 6 6
 @HB208: Based upon business tax rates in other states, it would save $180 - $270 cheaper per frame at maximum in other states. So not anywhere near what you are claiming.
  • 5 1
 @HB208: @tkrumroy: the problem is multiple brands are doing it now. When Yeti came out with the 4.5k frame several people actually laughed and called it out. Then another brand did it. Now Ibis does it… all of a sudden it’s, well that’s not so bad, there’s such and such already at the same price… it’s setting precedence.
  • 2 0
 @conoat: God I wasn’t aware that the sb165 frame was that expensive.

I bought my sb130 frame new for $3.5k and it made me question my sanity….
  • 4 6
 @psicoizaguirre: I got my wife a 130 frame at EP pricing and it was still $2000. she loves it, but had I had to pay full retard for it, I would have gaslighted her into not wanting it. LMAO
  • 2 1
 @mtbikeaddict: Mondraker framesets are $4k-ish. they are also about as bad ass as they come, so.....
  • 5 13
flag carters75 (Jun 30, 2021 at 11:11) (Below Threshold)
 That's what happens when you manufacture in one of the most expensive and overly regulated areas of the country. Fab these bikes in Texas and I bet you could do it for half the cost.
  • 9 3
 @carters75: in no way do you have to agree with what I am about to say. But part of the appeal of bringing manufacturing to places that care is there are regulations to make sure you aren't totally destroying the planet with your manufacturing. Now I am sure texas has at least a few more rules compared to china.
  • 12 1
 @carters75: That's just absolutely not true. Bikes manufactured in China are roughly half the cost of this, what makes you think anything made in any US state would come close to China prices?

Make these in Texas and you'd maybe knock a few hundred off the top. Maybe. If you want stuff made in the USA by people paid fair wages then you're gonna have to pay for it, simple as that.
  • 1 0
 @WY228: There was supposed to be some new carbon manufacturing technologies that was going to make carbon frame manufacturing much more efficient and cheaper. However, it looks like the demand has kept prices super high.
  • 9 0
 @mtnman4life: indeed! Great comment!

I’m a hobby framebuilder and its amazing to me that bikes are as cheap as they are. It is a miracle of the modern economy that you can buy a shred worthy bike for around $3000. Economies of scale and worldwide markets are an amazing thing.
  • 3 1
 @tacklingdummy: They are using it: youtu.be/JAJXv-h_afA

This is how much things cost when you're not able to take advantage of low cost labor.
  • 2 1
 @WY228: to be fair, and this is coming from what I see in the construction world, texas wages are like 15/hr maybe for labor. the same role in California could be 30 to 40/hr
  • 4 1
 @Hayek: So they ruled out objective 3 to cater to pro racers and dentists. Got it. Now we know their target demographics.
  • 4 20
flag hamncheez (Jun 30, 2021 at 11:59) (Below Threshold)
 @adrennan: Regulations, no matter how well intended, typically don't work. They just increase compliance costs and increase corruption with regulators.

India and China have the toughest worker and environmental protection laws, but pollute the most. California has some of the strictest worker protection laws in the country, but all it does is cause higher unemployment rates and lower wages (all else being equal).
  • 1 0
 @LeDuke: elaborate, please
  • 13 0
 @hamncheez: India and China 100% do not have the toughest worker and environmental protection laws.
  • 2 6
flag hamncheez (Jun 30, 2021 at 12:14) (Below Threshold)
 @HB208: Google it.

They are just all ignored, bribed away, or completely ineffective.
  • 3 2
 @hamncheez: would love to see the data set showing lower wages in California... I know it is cool to rip on California but use actual data if you are going to say that.
  • 6 0
 If we want to compare prices of Made in USA bikes, lets use the Allied Able gravel frame as example.

Allied is kinda sorta owned by Walmart.

The factory is in Arkansas.

The Able frame has no pivots.

It costs $4000. The cheapest Able build is $5400 and it's sold out.
  • 4 1
 @hamncheez: Weird, when I google it, the Harvard study I found agrees with me: www.hbs.edu/ris/Publication%20Files/GCR_20012002_Environment_5d282a24-bb10-4a9a-88bd-6ee05e8c6678.pdf

Look at Figure 6.
  • 1 0
 Different style of frame… but a carbon stumpy evo frame is about the same price. Same with yeti and others. That’s not to say that any are good value, but people clearly buy them.
  • 5 0
 @HB208: like someone calculated above comes to about $128 of hourly shop rate but includes material, rent, utilities, their profit, transportation, dealer profit, etc. Maybe they can save 5 bucks per hour in labor (big maybe) and another 5 dollars in rent. Price would now be $4130. Labor not really a factor. I think the big advantage is the tooling cost (those molds probably have 100s of hours of labor on them) and utilization. A factory in China would probably run 3 shifts and make bikes for several brands. This facility will only make a few hundred bikes per year. Hopefully they can scale up.
  • 4 0
 @adrennan: CNC techs in Texas are 30-35/ hr. Assembly techs 20-25/ hr. I don't think there is such a big gap on those type of jobs.
  • 1 1
 @TrailFeatures: Yes, the cost of labor overseas is a fraction what it is in the US, but when the demand is extremely high, manufacturers will keep the prices high if there is still demand. If there is much less demand like before the pandemic, prices would not be as high. Inflation is extremely high in the US. Almost everything is costing more. Gas up 35-40%, lumber up 280%, beef up 40%, etc, etc.

That video is very interesting. GG is said very similar things in their solutions to improving carbon frame manufacturing. GG can make frames at a nearly half the cost of this Ibis frame in the US. Yes, the frames are not really in same category because they are so much heavier, but I'd bet GG could make a competitive XC frame close to their $2495 frame price. Ibis has a lot more overhead and Specialized and SC even more.

www.youtube.com/watch?v=sqa2oG5Uhys
  • 6 1
 @tacklingdummy: As pointed out in another comment on this article GG uses a resin casting system where they stamp their carbon frames vs Ibis's hand layup method here. Not really an apples-to-oranges comparison.

GG also uses the same modular front triangle between all their bikes vs. a dedicated lightweight front triangle aimed at XC like this Ibis. Not saying one manufacturer is better than the other but I see why the Ibis costs more to produce.
  • 2 5
 @mtnman4life: GG is doing it for nearly half the price of this frame. Yeah, it is not in the same category and the Evie is much lighter, however, I'd bet GG could make a competitive XC frame near their $2495 cost because they have much, much less overhead than Ibis.

www.youtube.com/watch?v=sqa2oG5Uhys
  • 3 0
 @PHeller: a made in Denver Alchemy Atlas Carbon frameset is $4499
  • 2 4
 @WY228 Different manufacturing process, but same exact strategies to make the frame manufacturing more efficient and cheaper, to cut the labor time and costs. Here is the GG video on their carbon frame manufacturing process. Yeah, frames are different, but I don't see nearly double the cost different.
  • 3 1
 @tacklingdummy: Hand laying is not a process meant to reduce labor time and costs... its a very labor intensive method.
  • 2 1
 @gonzocycle: I thought alchemy stopped their mountain bike production in colorado.
  • 2 0
 @adrennan: they did, too expensive. the only USA made carbon frame is the Road frame.
  • 3 0
 @Hayek:
You're right.
  • 1 0
 @WY228: Watch both Ibis and GG manufacturing videos. Both companies optimized the shape of the carbon pieces for the carbon layouts which decreased the amount of pieces from 300 to about 100. Less pieces results in much less time doing the carbon layouts. Ibis says about it decreased the time to do the carbon layouts from from about 35-40 hours to about 15 hours using "hand layouts". GG says they decrease the time from 24-48 hours to about 8 hours using "automated layouts". Both companies significantly decreased their carbon layout times.
  • 5 3
 @HB208: GG is not anywhere near the level of Yeti, SC, Ibis, etc.
  • 2 1
 @hamncheez: dude that is absolute horseshit
  • 5 0
 Don't buy it. Problem solved
  • 6 4
 $4500 for half a bicycle or $6500 for a YZ125 hmmmm :thinkingface:
  • 3 1
 @niccolope: ahhh yes this argument again that totally misses some key differences. crazy economies of scale for dirt bikes. how many brands are making a moto vs how many brands a making mountain bikes? yamaha has a way bigger percent market share than ibis. then there is the fact that if you want to buy the exact bike that the top moto guys are riding, you are looking at 10s of thousands of dollars for all the top end shiny bits. someone with their priorities right and an ok job can buy the best of the best mountain bike. the same is not true for moto.
  • 4 1
 @mtbikeaddict: At least Ibis is US made, the YETI is still made overseas, so still over priced.
  • 7 4
 @SimbaandHiggins: I'm not an expert in pollution, but I am in labor economics, so let me speak to that (labor protection regulation).

Lets assume that regulatory capture isn't a thing, and that laws aren't ultimately written by those who stand to profit from them. Lets assume that politicians are honest and have the welfare of others in mind. Lets assume the same for regulation enforcers.

Right to work laws can be thought of as anti-laws, or laws against laws. States with these laws, in general, have more lax regulations on how employees can be fired. The end result is that these states tend to have lower rates of unemployment and higher wages. This makes sense as its less risky to hire an employee, since you know you can easily fire them if it doesn't work out. It also reduces the lawsuit risk, allowing for higher wages. It also reduces the friction of moving and finding jobs, making job-skill matching easier and more efficient. This has lifelong benefits as people more easily and earlier in life match up with the careers that work for them the best.

The other main focus of labor law is safety- OSHA. There is no evidence in the economic literature that can identify reduced workplace accidents or deaths as a result of OSHA being instituted. In the USA (and globally for the most part, with a few exceptions) workplace accidents and deaths have been dropping independent of any government action; its mostly due to rising wealth.

In the classical Hedonic wage model, you sort various jobs by risk level. To induce workers to engage in high risk activity, you have to pay them a higher wage. This is modeled out, and you can measure workers preference for risk. Younger, poorer workers tend to be less risk-adverse, so they are willing to take riskier jobs for higher wages. Historically, this is how young workers could compete against older, more mature workers and build their experience and career growth. This is also how poorer populations break into higher wage jobs (you see this with Pilipino immigrants in Japan, Mexican immigrants in the USA, etc). When you have regulations regarding safety, it raises the costs facing an employer. This means they can afford to pay their workers less (cost of compliance). This harms younger, poorer workers, and takes away their comparative advantage in the labor market.
  • 8 2
 @HB208: god this guy is butthurt about this bike.

The GG process is fundamentally different, using automated layup with a robotic system and thermoplastic binder (and Al rear triangle). This is not to mention the re-use of their carbon front triangle between models and the inherent compromise that results Altogether these lead to a frame 2-3 pounds heavier than the new ibis; it's not a good faith comparison.
  • 2 1
 @hamncheez:

You’re absolutely wrong when you claim that fewer accidents and deaths are happening in the work place “independently” of any governmental action/ regulations.

Do you have any evidence that backs this up?
  • 5 0
 @hamncheez: right to work states do not have higher wages lol. Idahoan here.
  • 1 0
 @LeDuke:

Do they?. They raced a full DH WC season without any apparent fails, and bikes get brutalized at that level.
  • 3 1
 @sspiff: to be fair, GG has started doing carbon chainstays too, and dropped a pound from their frames.
  • 1 0
 @TheOriginalTwoTone: just this model is made in the US.
  • 1 0
 @hamncheez: thanks! I actually forgot about the chainstays on the newer TP. I still stand by the rest of the rant though!
  • 2 2
 @carters75: Sure,until the power goes out...
  • 3 2
 @sspiff: It doesn't mean that GG can't make a lightweight XC frame with their manufacturing process. They just decided to make bikes for the biggest market which is the trail and enduro categories.
  • 1 1
 @pcpowderhound: exactly, GG is far better than yeti or santa cruz! Comparing a usa made GG to a made in usa Ibis is similar only in that they are two companies inventing something different than what everybody else is doing in asia and that is cool
  • 7 1
 @tacklingdummy: "The biggest market"= Front Range riders riding 150mm bikes on XC trails.
  • 1 0
 @LeDuke: That doesn't make any sense since the Exie doesn't have that level of travel. Ibis isn't going to convince that crowd that they need less suspension. The Exie serves a different demographic, those that actually own up to the fact that they are hardened XC riders. Not the wannabe Enduro crowd that mostly rides XC trails but pretends to be Enduro riders.
  • 1 1
 @SuperHighBeam: Sorry, I was responding to a poster who said that GG targets the "biggest market which is the trail and enduro categories". You are correct, this bike is not targeted at that crowd, but in reality many of them WOULD be better served on a bike like the Exie.
  • 1 0
 @HB208: , buy now if you can. Bike Prices will only increase.
  • 2 0
 @HendersonMike: I bought a spur two months ago.
  • 1 0
 @LeDuke: Not just about the travel, it is about the geometry, riding position, and quality of the travel. 120mm XC-ish bikes can handle a lot tech and are great for what they are made for, but totally different riding experience and function. A trail bike is just better for more all around riding and more versatile bike for more types of trails.
  • 2 0
 @LeDuke: You're right, they would be better served but it would hurt their ego and image of being the hardcore rider they're pretending to be.
  • 2 1
 @tacklingdummy: This is certainly true, but that won't be enough to pull people away from their 150mm full squish rigs since they would be accepting a softer image. This isn't quite the same as going from lots of suspension on a 26er to less suspension on a 29er. We're talking same wheel size, different geometry, and different travel. The front range crowd on 150mm+ rigs will instead seek out rigs with similar travel and contemporary geo. The Exie will appeal to former XC riders, and new trail riders. but not to current trail riders on Enduro type rigs. There will certainly be some defectors but they'll likely be outliers.
  • 24 2
 Looks, dare I say, Exie-lent!
  • 16 0
 I think is great that this how Ibis is choosing to do business, not selling out to global investment firms and staying true to it's heritage. The USA manufacturing facility is really a skunk works r&d lab, allowing ibis to prototype in house which is rad! As they get it sorted and refined, the cost of manufacturing in house will be reduced.
  • 13 0
 I want more and more raw carbon bikes please. Paint is just a waste of grams.
  • 10 0
 $4500 is of course a lot of money for a frame but they built a freaking factory. This can't be cheap!
I am in Europe so I am not really the target market but this is a very good step in the right direction imo.
Exited to see where this will be heading, especially price wise.
  • 28 16
 Hope she's good cause she ain't pretty.
  • 14 2
 22.2 freedom units = 10.07 kg, you silly Muricans.
  • 10 0
 In Australia, Exie is slang for "very expensive." Is this the case anywhere else?

As in "yeah nah, that's a just a bit too exie for me..."
  • 2 0
 That's literally the first thing I thought too!
  • 3 0
 It's an exie bin chicken for sure
  • 10 1
 Killer bike for a lot of my local terrain... if I could ever justify two nice mountain bikes, I'd be all over this. Two bottles!
  • 10 0
 Sweet bike. I like seeing more manufacturers doing production in North America.
  • 7 0
 The comments in the epilogue definitely need more attention! As @mikelevy discussed on a recent podcast, slopestyle is becoming too unrelatable and polularity is declining and I am starting to feel the same thing about enduro. 170-180mm forks are now the norm and bike weights are 35+lbs. In June there were two enduro races in CA and both ended up airlifting riders out. Is this a welcoming format?

Enduro started as a sport for the trail bike owners who had become ~90% of the market. Most people didn't own bikes suitable for XC or DH, so the all around race with timed decent segments was perfect. But now your average bike purchase won't be an enduro bike, it's reverting back towards XC, like the 120mm and 25lbs package. These new bikes are awesome, but I feel like the sport is headed towards another wave of suffering because the racing is not aligning with the bikes. Shouldn't races be won on our favorite bikes (120-160mm travel) riden by very talented and fit riders? I would argue the racing needs to change, and only XC is changing favorably.
  • 2 1
 hard disagree. the 3 main disciplines: XC, Enduro, and DH, should all be completely different, with as close to zero overlap as possible. That said, as tech and the sport progress, there is no stopping the march up the difficulty ladder of all three. DH is insane, enduro is DH-light, and XC is becoming enduro-20years ago. It's the nature of sport and competition. NFL has trackstars running 4.1's and no one wears a leather helmet any more, and basketball probably needs a raising of the hoop. lol
  • 10 0
 Wow this was completely unexpected. Nice bike!
  • 12 2
 I just straight up dont believe this thing is 22.2lb as pictured.
  • 5 0
 *32 stepcast w/ a rigid post and Aspen 2.25s... then probably
  • 1 0
 It said that was w/o pedals but I agree, have to lose the dropper and the 2.35's to get there unless the rims are ~300g.
  • 2 1
 They designed it for a 120mm fork, so the StepCast 34 is the likely front fork. With a Fox build kit, I'd assume that would include a Transfer SL dropper. DPS rear shock. Run it with some carbon bars and lightweight wheels I'd think 22lbs would be doable for a 4.4lbs frame.

But with the Hans Dampf pictured? nah. Those are 1075g tires at least. Then again...

The Ripley with a 6lbs frame/shock can hit 25.5lbs. Perhaps they are extrapolating from that? When Pinkbike reviewed the RIpley V4, they said 26lbs as pictured. That was with Nobby Nics, but even so, if they shed 2.5lbs they'd be around 23.5lbs, and that's pretty darn close to their claimed weight.
  • 8 1
 why everyone complain about price? Ibis offers sub 2k alu frames as well in trail / enduro category;

cmon, this is top of their R&D aimed for XC racers, I believe frames will sell absolutely ok
  • 5 0
 Similar pricing to a Yeti SB115 frame set, you either buy into the brand, or you don't, not everyone wants to follow the crowd and if you sum up the enjoyment the hobby / sport gives you by price alone then you're missing the point, surely it's all about how you ride and not what you ride but let's not diss those that choose to buy what they like and enjoy riding it.
  • 4 0
 “dearth” is being used here as if it means “an unwelcome abundance”, which had me doubting myself, but no, it does mean what I thought: “a lack of”
(I don’t think anybody’s ever complained about a lack of domain name squatters)
  • 4 0
 @asureblue Good catch mate. I'll fix that.
  • 2 2
 @RichardCunningham: I routinely try to use it as the opposite of what it means. wtf is it with that word??? LMAO
  • 1 0
 I always think of dearth and slew as close to being antonyms
  • 2 0
 @conoat: a dearth of understanding regarding its definition?
  • 2 1
 @Onetrickpony: naw, I have a plethora of knowledge about what the word means, there's just something about the sound of saying the word that is remiscent of "plenty".
  • 1 0
 @conoat: is a myriad / are myriad is my hang up.
  • 8 1
 Would like to see a $3000 25# Exie AF , that is what a Privateer XC bike looks like
  • 1 0
 If Exie AF comes out, I'll buy. Ripley AF is great but turns out a bit more bike than I need, the bike being so capable.
  • 1 0
 Alloy frames don't sell with the XC racing crowd and thats a fact. If they can't afford the carbon fs model, they'll rather buy a carbon hardtail than an alloy fs bike.
  • 1 0
 @BenTheSwabian: I know you're right Frown
  • 6 0
 My 35 pound marshmallow is orange and has a brass shorebird on the headtube Big Grin
Happy 40th!
  • 4 0
 Big jumps between sizes seems like it'll leave a lot of people struggling with fit. That aside, this is awesome. Crazy light for a dual link bike. And RC is spot on with his epilogue.
  • 5 0
 A DC bike with room for TWO bottles inside the frame - but also with remote lockout on both shock AND fork... Mike Levy's head is going to implode!
  • 3 0
 It had to be competitive at the highest level, reasonably priced, adept at handling technical terrain, and its frame (size medium with a real shock) had to weigh less than 4.4 pounds (2kg)

So close but completely missed on the reasonably priced though. $8k on an XT bike. $1,300 more than an XT Ripley.
  • 4 1
 Like the obvious shots fired at Santa Cruz across the way for making all their bikes in China.

Like the idea of this. Probably a fun bike and I would take it over a Blur (which is a mm here and there away from being identical)

Brining RC out of retirement to write about the new bike from his close friends company and the fact this is the only media anywhere in this bike means this this is going to show up on trails in 2024.
  • 3 0
 To the people who place a value in the Made in America aspect of this or other bikes; what is your main reason for doing so? I do not want any part of an argument on it, I am generally curious. I have had 4 bikes that were made in the US, several that were not. Is it an all things equal you go with the US bike, a I will seek out US bikes, or I dont even think about where the bike is made,
  • 2 0
 My take is its part 'altruism', in that its good for the US workers, US economy; part ecological maybe, in that finished goods aren't traveling across the ocean; part an assumption that 'made in the USA' means quality and engineered refinement, which isn't always true; maybe also a measure of transparency (which goes back to quality), knowing the raw materials were transformed into goods at this specific site, by these people. Top off all that with simple patriotism.
  • 4 1
 Proportional Geometry only really applies to the seat tube angle. Yeah, the increase in steepness in the larger size will help climbing by giving the taller folks a reasonable "seated rear center", considering the relatively short chainstays. But that's not going to help when standing up, whether climbing or descending: taller riders still have to deal with short chainstays relative to the reach, and short riders get relatively huge chainstays.

Almost 5 inches of wheelbase difference from small to x-large, and _all_ the difference is from the front-center... those bikes are going to ride quite differently. How much would a ride review of a large or x-large really help anyone buying a size small?
  • 4 1
 Everyone forgets that it very often makes perfect sense to "price out" your product.

If you can sell 2,000 bikes per year at $4500 and 20% margin, you're netting $1.8M

If you can sell 334 bikes per year at $9000 and 60% margin, you're still netting $1.8M and there was WAY less trouble to reach the same profitability.

Same COGs on the bike. Either way you are "in it" for $3,600.00 to manufacture and spec each bike. That said, it is much more efficient, with lover overhead costs, to hit the higher price target and sell less frames.

Yes, I realize this is reductive and doesn't account for dozens of factors, but it still explains why some brands produce $12k bikes, some brands produce $3k bikes, and why most brands produce a whole host of different frames and build kit options.
  • 3 0
 I have been an Ibis convert since the first carbon Mojo. Since then I have bought the Ripley and Rimpo sight unseen and without a test ride just based on the pre-sale news and test rider comments. They have never disappointed me. Ibis is fanatical about getting it "done right" .

Yes, this is a very expensive frame: On one hand people cry about keeping jobs and manufacturing in the USA.... but they don't want to pay for it. You can't have both.

Kudo's to Ibis for even attempting to do this (mfg in USA) and I can't wait to get a test ride. I probably won't get one, I don't race any more I am now into the bigger travel bikes, but still, I would like a test ride!
  • 2 0
 Price be damned....kick ass bike!! Have had a few Ibis over the past 10 years and always wanted an XC bike from them. Like how they didn't go too crazy with geo....makes sense to me as a rider who likes long rides to and from the trails. Being able to balance the saddle and bar weight helps alot.
  • 2 0
 This is a neat bike, and props to Ibis for moving some production back to the US. But…….

A)It ain’t affordable. If this hadn’t been mentioned in the article I wouldn’t bring it up, but maybe an AF version??

B) The purple prose is a little over the top. Several companies currently make lively short travel bikes that can handle some burlier riding. The Giant Trance 29 comes to mind as a bike that does everything this does for less coin.
  • 1 1
 The Trance equivalent is the Ripley.
  • 2 0
 @FloImSchnee: 117 travel-those boundaries are fuzzy. New Spark which is an “XC race” bike would also apply, and be a much better value.
  • 4 0
 Ibis: "we understand most Excies will be ridden by privateers who pay full retail."
Also Ibis: "lets make it in the USA no privateers can actually afford it."
  • 2 0
 I have a soft spot for Ibis. I purchased the first gen Ibis Mojo carbon back in the day and it was quite simply magical. Love their approach to making a bike. I’ve missed then so much and the Exie just may be my ticket back to them. Well done Ibis for pushing the envelope once again.
  • 2 0
 How the f*ck did this devolve into a GG vs Exie thread? GG makes nothing like this. NOTHING!! Who gives a f*ck is GG made in America. No one is cross-shopping the Exie with anything GG has. This should be compared to Scott Spark RC or a Specialized Epic. When you compare this bike to those, it is really impressive with what Ibis is doing. I’ve been having second thoughts of replacing my 120 trail bike and instead getting something like the Exie instead. Considering how well the Ripley v4 pedals, this thing has got to be a rocket ship. Made in America icing on the cake. I’d gladly pay a little more knowing that my money is staying in the states going to an American engineering and manufacturing. Bravo Ibis!
  • 3 0
 Couple of years ago Ibis brings a $1k carbon hardtail to the market, brilliant. Now a USA made top flight Ferrari, also brilliant.. Their customer service ia also spectacular I'm an Ibis guy until the music stops.
  • 6 1
 This is super exciting and a great move on Ibis's part, so rad!
  • 6 5
 Ouch. Affordability target missed. I appreciate the simple design elements, low leverage shock, 2 bottles, all great. Geometry seems solid for intent. But wow....

They'll sell these but it won't be to local xc racers paying retail. It'll be to industry insiders, tech bros, and big spenders who don't think about price when they consider a new bike.

At best, the marketing is disingenuous. Gross.

I know Ibis has crunched the numbers and it works as figured, but affordability is relative. Just sell it as it is. An Ibis XC/light trail Superbike, made in the USA, and for people richer than you. Spare us the affordability bullshit. We can handle it.
  • 8 0
 Don’t think they were going for affordable here.
The type of person that buys this is probably a type A, super successful, over achieving kind of person that wants something special. I’d say they nailed it and there are way more of those people than you think.
  • 1 0
 If, as you say, affordability is relative (and I agree) how can they have missed the target? It's affordable to me - so I'd say they nailed that target.
  • 1 0
 @cchough: it's not generally affordable. I COULD buy it too, but I won't. Of course that's my opinion. On our local scene I don't see privateer racers spending that kind of coin on a frameset without a bro deal. I'm not mad at the price or the product... it obviously makes enough sense for a large enough group of people that it exists. I just don't like normalizing the idea that a frames should cost this much, and the average retail-paying privateer should be okay with that. This is a boutique product and should be recognized as such. Marketing ruins everything.
  • 4 0
 It says 22.2lbs or 11.1kg. Which is it? 22.1lbs is 10.07kg, 11.1kg is 24.47lbs.
  • 4 0
 "If I pay for my order in USD, can you give me the 22.2 lb version instead of the 11.1kg version?" Wink
  • 1 0
 I kinda seriously doubt that the version depicted is 10.07 kg... 11 kg is probably more likely
  • 1 0
 Really damn cool. Ibis has been absolutely killing it with the at models and it’s awesome to see them step up their carbon game. I’m more a hardtail or dual crown type of guy but this would’ve been right up my alley a few years ago.
  • 1 0
 The seat tube angle gets steeper as frames get larger? Is that listed correctly?

I would buy this bike if it had a 'modern' xc fit: steeper seat tube + longer reach. The new Blur, Ghost Lector FS, Norco, Epic all achieve this. For a Medium, I would have liked to have seen a 445~450 reach and much steeper seat tube, 75ish. I wonder what the geometry would look like with a 100mm fork. Surprised IBIS wouldn't want that listed.
  • 2 0
 Second, unless you happen to be tall, that forward weight shift tends to erode rear-wheel traction when the grades aren’t stupid steep.

Thank you for stating the obvious for once pinkbike.
  • 3 0
 Why, why, do mountain bikers love to complain about bike prices so much? It’s a freakin’ expensive sport, and Ibis is like the Ferrari of the bike world.
  • 1 0
 That last paragraph was spot on for me. I love my enduro bike period. I love my e enduro bike for the added range and more riding time. It’s fun and more of a full body effort kind of like moto, but it’s a tank. I enjoy climbing too, but it gets old cranking up hill with a coil on the back. I had some light XC bikes 20 years. I think one of these might be a lot of fun on the right trails. Light tires with no cushcore would certainly change your line choices.
  • 5 0
 Cool
  • 4 0
 Thanks RC! Always appreciate your well informing reviews!
  • 2 0
 More and more i see the need for a M/L size, if XL-ish wherever they want to plug it in 478mm reach to 519.... 43mm jump. No one will get caught in that hole...
  • 4 4
 Wow this is a whole new level of bad value for money. The one time Ibis makes a bike on which their approach to suspension kinematics and shock tune could actually make a lot of sense, it’s so expensive that it makes even a Specialized Epic look like good value in comparison.
  • 2 0
 Everything made in the USA is cooler than shit made in Asia (except Japan). And I’m not even an American! I just love USA made products.
  • 5 0
 made in california is even cooler Smile I take they dont want to relocate to cheaper states. Maybe they value their roots more.
  • 3 0
 @stpan:

Valuing roots is a good thing!! A very good thing!
  • 2 0
 I'll take the Epic evo base model for 3800.00 and upgrade it. It has 10mm more of travel and can be built just as light for cheeper
  • 1 0
 Yup... Epic Evo came out a year ago and still no other bike company has caught up with it. The Transition Spur is the only other one that's close... I have been racing an Epic Evo I built from a frame and it's incredibly fun and fast.
  • 4 0
 Everyone wants built in America until it comes to paying for it.
  • 2 0
 Ah, c'mon... You can't just leave deleted photo> place holders all over the place.... Now we want to see them too!
  • 2 0
 RC, heads up, typo: "Head tube angles are sit at a relatively *neurtral* 67.2 degrees"
  • 5 6
 I'm just waiting to see the price of We Are One's frame.
I'm guessing it will be a LOT cheaper.
While I respect Ibis for trying, this is probably going to be a flop. Privateer racees can't afford xc bikes at that cost, they'll happily buy a Chinese carbon frame instead. So I'm not sure who their target audience is?
  • 1 0
 i think at a time when there's so much demand just for bikes and parts... people will pay the prices. whether they're searching out that exact bike or go to the shop and have limited options, this bike, like all the others being released, will sell.
  • 1 0
 @crysvb: dentists. They buy Niners and they’re absurdly priced.
  • 1 0
 "Compound that with the worldwide dearth of internet domain squatters."

I don't think "dearth" means what the author intended.
  • 3 0
 Great to see Richard back for a guest appearance.
  • 1 0
 Looks like the former Pivot Mach 429 Trail with the main difference being the top pivot being located behind rather than in front of the seat tube.
  • 2 0
 RC has such legend status that he gets to use a different font than everybody else. Respect.
  • 3 0
 This is great! Congratulations, friends! When can we ride one?!
  • 1 0
 Love ibis, made in America is no easy task. Great customer support. The v1 Ripmo is so good I don’t even look at new bikes any more.
  • 1 0
 Can anyone recommend a large IBIS dealer where I can purchase a bike? There are NO dealers in my neck of the woods in central Florida. Thanks
  • 1 0
 The water bottle on the seat tube is touching the shock, or is just millimeters off of it. Looks like it would be fun to reach for that while riding.
  • 4 4
 The last paragraph is why I'm keeping my 2019 Enduro. It has trail bike numbers now and shreds all the trails and is great on the ups
  • 3 0
 Welcome back Ripley.
  • 1 0
 I thought there was new carbon manufacturing technologies that was going to make carbon frames like half the price. Razz
  • 1 0
 Expensive? Yes.
Do I need one? No.

I've got a Kidney for sale if anyone is in the market.
  • 1 0
 TT length seems a bit long for me. Either way, I don't need a race bike. Make the Ripley in the US, and I might buy one.
  • 1 0
 Really Ibis? $8k for xt build? You make Santa Cruz prices seem reasonable!
  • 2 0
 Wow Ibis! $8k for XT build...you make Santa Cruz pricing look good!
  • 1 0
 Looks pretty nice, but any word on when they will bring back their xc hardtail? That's the one I have my eye on.
  • 2 0
 I can't believe there's an XC bike without flex-stays.
  • 1 0
 does anyone know the advantage of having the rear shock bolt vertical instead of horizontal?
  • 1 0
 The yoke needs to be held ridged on a vertical plane while still allowing some side to side movement so frame flex will not cause the shock to bind
  • 1 0
 @Joecx: cool, makes sense. Thanks!
  • 1 0
 Not seeing longtime Ibis designer Roxy Lo in the pictures? Coincidence?

(I acually don't know the answer)
  • 1 0
 I like promo of XC nike on DJ line
  • 5 4
 Agreed. Almost as ugly as Orbea.
  • 2 1
 i will be sure to order a DPS2 right away....
  • 1 0
 Just rotate the full bottle to the front.
  • 1 0
 Will the pork chop bag fit?
  • 1 0
 Strange to see an XC bike advertised hitting dirt jumps.
  • 1 3
 Author writes: "No secret that choosing a lightweight dual suspension bike is the fastest way to get around a modern XCO course"

Guess the author hasn't seen many WC races lately.
  • 1 1
 The price must reflect the overseas labor and the shipping container costs. Oh wait, maybe not!
  • 1 0
 Steeper seat angles as the sizes get bigger. Ibis you rebels.
  • 1 0
 Forget about the bike....RC is back at Pinkbike?
  • 1 0
 He’s probably taking a vacation from the retirement.
  • 1 0
 This thing reads like the script of Levy’s wet dream.
  • 1 0
 NOW tell me about your 36 pound downcountry cadillacs
  • 1 0
 Wait a minute: RC is back in the game??
  • 1 0
 Beautiful only through a mothers eyes
  • 1 0
 Photographer planning the shoot "Ok, BMEXie..? lets go to these jumps..."
  • 1 0
 I'm looking forward to a reasonably priced AF version of this bike.
  • 1 0
 Sick cannondale! @cannondale
  • 1 0
 It’s a downcountry rider’s cross-country bike.
  • 1 0
 Hi Preston, hi Colin.
  • 1 0
 Dual slalom bike? hmm
  • 1 0
 3
  • 1 0
 What's the BB drop?
  • 1 0
 Exie is exxy.
  • 1 0
 Kevin siting!
  • 1 1
 I don't care how much it costs. It's ugly AF.
  • 1 0
 aaaand its ugly
  • 1 1
 Available 2024 at 2029 pricing....order now.
  • 1 0
 xc guy no like ibis
  • 3 6
 Maybe they should try manufacturing in a state other than California? If anything is going to drive up their price is trying to manufacture in California!
  • 6 1
 Ibis is, and has always been, based in NorCal. They should make another factory to produce bikes in another region, in an attempt to make a less-expensive product? That doesn't follow, does it?
  • 7 0
 Allied makes all of their gravel frames in Arkansas, and they cost just as much. And those bikes are less complex, with less material used.
  • 5 0
 Maybe they value the quality of life they and their employees have?
  • 2 0
 I guess I don't know what I'm talking about anyway. I did just buy a ripmo!
  • 1 3
 WTF
Frame only: $4,499 (with Fox DPS2 shock)
  • 1 3
 Warehouse full of boxed bikes yup sure made in Taiwan
  • 2 3
 Ugly AF
  • 21 23
 f*ck that’s ugly bud
  • 3 3
 Agreed. Some of the worst front triangle lines I’ve ever seen…
  • 4 4
 @BMcP: yep, absolutely hideous. Just lots of lines that all go in random directions. Hard pressed to find an uglier XC bike at the moment
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