Ibis Cycles celebrates its 40-year anniversary this year - about as long as the mountain bike has existed. I’d excuse any brand who could make such a claim for celebrating it with a six-figure “We were there before you were born” video production, along with commemorative graphics and a glitzy follow-up marketing campaign.
Hate to be the spoiler, but the folks at Ibis were too busy for any of that nonsense. To mark the occasion, Ibis worked in secret for three years: first, to develop a competitive dual-suspension cross-country race bike; and second, to build a factory near their Santa Cruz, California, headquarters where they could manufacture and assemble it. Those are awfully big checks to write for a small bike brand, but Ibis managed to cash both by their 40th birthday. Here’s the exclusive story. Meet Exie Few industries are more overpopulated with clever marketing hacks than cycling. Compound that with a worldwide abundance of internet domain squatters and it seems inconceivable that the simplest name for a cross-country mountain bike escaped their nets. Exie, right?
Exie is first and foremost a 29-inch-wheel cross-country machine, but the natural-finish carbon frame’s minimal looking profile stops short of the more spindly designs on the World Cup Circuit, and that’s no accident. Ibis steered towards survivable design elements and away from cereal-box weight shavers like pencil-thin stays, press-in bottom brackets and pivotless suspension.
To their credit, a medium-sized Exie weighs only a fraction over 22 pounds (sans water bottle and pedals) - an impressive number, further sweetened by the fact that it comes with a dropper post and Ibis’ seven year frame warranty.
Exie Details • Wheel size: 29"
• Travel: 100mm rear / 120mm front
• Carbon Frame / dw-link suspension
• Proportional geometry between sizes
• 67.2-degree head angle
• Price range: $7,999 to $12,799
• Frame only: $4,499 (with Fox DPS2 shock)
• Colors: Natural carbon
• Sizes: Small, medium large, X-large
• Weight: 22.2 lb / 10.1kg complete, 4.4 lb / 2kg frame & shock (size medium, claimed)
•
Ibis Cycles Ibis won’t be sponsoring a World Cup XC team in the near future and they understand that most Exies will be owned by privateers, many of whom pay retail prices and must train and race on the same bike. Its 100mm travel dw-Link rear suspension pivots on a combination of cartridge bearings and bushings that carry a lifetime replacement warranty. Using a low leverage ratio and a conventional-length 190 x 45mm shock ensures suspension support for a wide range of rider weights, and frames are available in four sizes, each with an adjusted seat tube angle and front center to keep racers in their climbing sweet spots.
Features & Geometry The Exie's internal cables and hoses are routed through molded-in pipes while, depending upon frame size, you’ll have room for two water bottles inside the frame. Molded chainstay padding keeps the Exie silent running and, paying homage to downcountry riders, Ibis kept the Exie’s seat tube low and arrow straight in case its owner opts for a maximum-stroke dropper post upgrade. Oh yeah, and there’s room for a 2.4-inch tire in the back.
About the numbers: Ibis chose to reel in some of the stem length that traditional XC racers prefer and make up that distance by lengthening the Exie’s front center. Reach begins at 413mm for small frames and increases across four size-options to 513mm for the X-large model. With only 100mm of rear-suspension travel, the Exie can get away with an intelligently low, 339mm bottom bracket height. Head tube angles are sit at a relatively neutral 67.2 degrees, while all sizes share the same, 435mm chainstay length.
Exie’s effective seat tube angle bucks contemporary “Steeper is better” logic, but not by much. Ibis’ reasoning is to conserve energy, especially during extended climbs. Today’s upright seat tube angles, combined with extended front centers are best suited for steeper and more technical climbs. That combination helps to maintain a more balanced position over the bike at extreme gradients and keeps the front wheel properly weighted. The tradeoff for that aggressive climbing stance, however, is two-fold. First, it transfers a measure of the rider’s weight from the saddle to the handlebars, which can be tiresome on flat sections and mild up-grades. Second, unless you happen to be tall, that forward weight shift tends to erode rear-wheel traction when the grades aren’t stupid steep.
Exie GeometryIbis discovered through testing that a milder seat tube angle lets the saddle counter much of the rider’s leg power, which saves energy that the rider would have otherwise expended needlessly through upper body muscles. To balance the Exie fore and aft, Ibis gradually increases the seat tube angle as the frame sizes grow. In this way, short riders gain the rear-wheel traction they need, while taller riders, who typically suffer from too much weight transfer to the rear, are moved forward to keep their front wheels comfortably pinned to the ground. I spent two days riding the Exie on a variety of trails near Santa Cruz to test that theory.
When you can get one: Ibis will release the Exie this summer as a frame with a Fox Factory DPS Remote shock for $4,499 USD and in three builds, all suspended by Fox Factory DPS Remote shocks and Step-Cast 120mm forks: a $7,999 version based on Shimano Deore XT components, a SRAM X01 version for $9,199, and an all-in version for $12,799 that features SRAM XX1 AXS, Shimano XTR, Enve, Industry Nine and Cane Creek goodness.
Why Put So Much Effort Into a Niche Market?
The creation of Exie was inevitable. Ibis has always had one foot in the lightweight game. Hans Heim, the man who revitalized Ibis, is an unapologetic cross-country geek. His daughter Lili was a powerhouse among Northern California’s NICA high school racing leagues, of which Ibis has been a substantial supporter. (Some say that Ibis’ DV9 carbon hardtail was largely created for Lili and her NICA compatriots.)
It's also no secret that technical race tracks at the World Cup level have both rejuvenated interest in cross-country competition and challenged traditional
bike designs. In response, Hans initiated the Exie project with a short list of specifications: It had to be competitive at the highest level, reasonably priced, adept at handling technical terrain, and its frame (size medium with a real shock) had to weigh less than 4.4 pounds (2kg). Everything else was negotiable.
The end of an era: For decades, the evolution of World Cup XC race bikes was: take a pro road frame, widen the rear stays, slacken the head tube a couple of degrees and raise it high enough to clear a 100mm-stroke fork. Squeak it through testing and give it a weight limit – Boom! To add rear suspension, begin with your hardtail, minimize travel to 100 millimeters or less, eliminate swingarm pivots, overdrive the tiniest shock you can find, squeeze it through testing, and give it a weight limit – Done!
That’s great if your customer demographic fixates on blue-trail KOMs and thinks six raisins, three poached anchovies and a tablespoon of peas is dinner. As Ibis zeroed in on the Exie’s geometry, however, the new bike was becoming a capable descender – to the point where the staff were pushing test mules far beyond the bike’s original design envelope.
 | When we started riding the prototypes we realized we made the frames too capable for 100mm forks. You just ended up riding it so hard. We changed to a 120mm fork and that made it hard to hit our weight and strength targets. It delayed developments by a few months, but resulted in a better bike.—Colin Hughes |
Future-proofing the Exie to survive in a much more aggressive environment meant increasing the frame’s strength without busting Hans' maximum weight goal. Solving that puzzle meant reshuffling three pounds of paper-thin unidirectional carbon fiber across nine feet of frame tubing until they found the razor’s edge between minimum weight and maximum strength.
Also Comments: $4500 frame?!?! Lol I can buy anything else I want on earth for that much! Get lost Ibis!
ridegg.com/products/trailpistol?option=Ride
Also not 100% carbon frame- seatstays are still AL.
The new Ibis is a one-off design, full carbon, and a lot lighter but without the cost cutting and efficiency of GG's manufacturing processes. So yea, while both the Ibis and GG are made in the USA, the way they approach R&D and manufacturing are quite different.
Given that GG are keeping front triangle between frames means that they can save costs (at a weight penalty), whereas this is a completely new frame requiring investment.
Both excellent bikes, but completely different making direct comparison very difficult...
I do agree that it is a VERY expensive frame, but it's a niche market and I'm sure they'll not struggle to sell them.
As I said in another thread, Issues with comparing Ibis to GG is the manufacturing process. GG uses a resin casting system that allows them to stamp out frames that are super strong. However, they are not nearly as light (or supple) as the standard hand layup method of carbon.
You also brought up a great point about how they use the same front and just make different linkage/swing arms to make a different bike. Awesome for keeping costs down and for people like me that love to play with their bike like Legos. I would also like to add that the GG frames can actually be recycled into a new frame, where a standard carbon frame goes into the landfill
But at that end of the day, two very different methods for two very different requirements.
So, maybe let's just be happy companies are actually trying to bring production back to the US?
If GG wanted, it could probably shed a few pounds from the Trail Pistol if it got a DEDICATED front triangle.
GG recently had the Trail Pistol SL "Plaid" limited edition that was 26lbs with a SID LUX and SID 35 front fork. That bike still utilized the half-pound heavier aluminum chainstays. In theory, you should be able to get the TP down to 25lbs-ish. Again, that'd be riding a bike with the same front triangle as a 160mm/180mm Gnarvana, so they'd be no worries about strength.
+4kusd, LOL
I think a better analogy: "you could buy a Corvette or a Ferrari". Decidedly similar vehicles with comparable performance, separated principally by their refinement and production run size.
I also like that the bike is overbuilt. Yea, it's heavy for its relative travel, but I also didn't buy the bike to race XC. I built it to be ridden anywhere reliably.
The folks who buy an Epic, Spark, or this Exie, are not looking for a "one bike quiver" they are looking for a purebred race machine. They either A) don't have a longer travel bike, or B) have a few other high end bikes for other purposes.
I wanted one bike, to be adaptable, modular, reliable, and built in the USA. GG set out to be different. Low overheads, engaged customers, innovative domestic manufacturing. There are plenty of examples of bike brands using Taiwanese manufactured frames. Revel comes to mind. In my mind, that just makes them a "Brand" not a manufacturer. Unless your overseas factory produces bikes for you exclusively, you've got a "Brand". GG is a Brand and a Manufacturer. Now Ibis is as well.
I highly doubt either is threatened by the other's existence - so no need for hate of either Ibis nor GG.
Trail Pistol frame + shock = 6.9 ish. First thing everyone says is its heavy
Yeti SB130 frame + shock = 6.9 lbs. No one says a word
SC tallboy frame + shock = 6.8 lbs with fox dps
GG Gnarvana frame + shock = 7.9 with CC Kitsuma air
Yeti SB150 frame + shock = 7.7 with an X2
SC megatower = cant find a publushed weight but judging by full build weight, at least 7.75.
Not everyone falls for every new trend
And yeah, I could "afford" this bike if I really wanted to spend that kind of money. I am happy with my Spur though and if I did get an XC bike it would probably be the Spark.
I am lucky to live in Colorado, and as such I probably encounter 10,000+ unique riders at my trail heads each year. Our daily rider trails are equivalent to DH bike park blues and blacks. For this reason, all the guys I ride with ride enduro bikes, and we rarely see true XC bikes on our trails.
Again, I'm not saying these trails cannot be ridden on an XC bike. But it would take some serious skill, with increased risk of crashes at a much slower descending pace to ride many of our trails.
1) that might be their one bike that gets used on a variety of terrain around the country (in other words, I shouldn't judge, I don't know their life)
2) the skills and capabilities of world class athletes who are genetic freaks focused solely on eeking out seconds in laps around race venues aren't really germane to the discussion of what people should be riding at their local trails.
Look, I'm glad you get your jolly's from riding rugged technical trails on an XC rig. But there is no way that you are as fast on the descents on that XC rig as you would be on a 140mm trail bike, at 155mm AM bike, or a 170 mm Enduro bike. And if what you crave (as many of us do) is earnin' your turns and rippin' the descents, than a pure XC race bike is not the correct choice, nor does it descend well compared to these other bikes.
When I look at the KOM's for all descent segments in my area, you know what kind of bikes I don't see in the top 50-100? XC bikes.
www.mtbr.com/threads/gg-trail-pistol-full-carbon-a-tale-of-woeful-quality-and-heartbreak.1190677
Cliff notes. Guy orders a GG in Australia, gets a defective frame and GG wants him to pay shipping both ways to replace a frame they should have never shipped in the first place.
I guess that's the kind of service a cheaper price gets ya.
I have ridden a bunch of gimmick link bikes and they all feel wonky. Horst link all day for me.
Weight: Even
I am looking at the overall numbers of the top of the line bikes for both the Exie and the Spark, and I see both bikes are dead even weight wise, just over 22 lbs.
Looks: Spark
For me, the Spark looks better, and I would choose the Scott based on just the looks alone. That 2021 SCOTT Spark EVO just looks bad ass!
Price/Value: Even
Price wise they are even. The top of the line Spark, SCOTT Spark RC SL EVO, also goes for almost $13k just like the Top of the line Ibis Exie.
Gucci Factor to make us feel better about our bikes: Spark
I have always felt Scott Bikes pedaled great, but in my head Ibis DW Link bikes seems to be slightly better peddlers and rocket forwards more. I am sure if I would time myself with both bikes over the course of a full season I most likely would find them equally fast.
the new Spark tops out at 13k
the new Blur tops out at 11,3k
the s works epic tops out at 12k
the yeti sb115 tops out with options around 12k
the trek supercaliber 9.9 tops out at 10k
Yes, I understand all of the bikes top out at over $10k. If you look at the mid-spec builds, this bike is significantly more expensive. The Epic Expert is a bit over $6k and comes with carbon wheels. The Spark priced at $5,500 comes with GX AXS, etc.
Yeti frames used to be the pinnacle of dentist frames at $3500. Then pole came out with a small production of expensive machined frames, followed by $15 specialized ebikes.
I am going to start printing my own money. There is no other way
The Exie takes 35hrs to make, down from 86hrs overseas in above link, which makes it roughly $128/hr to produce. This is on par for shop labor at your LBS and at your local car dealer, if ya do the math with all the info. If it was made in Taiwan it would be cheaper but then yould bitch that it wasnt made in the US.
To all the haters feel free to start your own US made bike company and report back on how well you do in business.
The median housing price in this area is over $800k (even though it is outside of SC). I have to imagine that if they decided to put this facility in somewhere like NM, Bentonville, or hell, SLC, they could have managed to produce a $3,500 frame.
Ibis is cool and all that but no UNNO cool. Now you go start a bike company in BCN and report back how well you do!
GG uses a resin casting system that allows them to stamp out frames that are super strong. However, they are not as light as the standard hand layup method of carbon.
Reeb uses metal and has refined their process for the Sqweeb and do enough volume on it they can bring the cost down. Look at the cost of a Reeb HT.
1- “competitive at the highest level”
2- “weigh under 2 kg”
3- “reasonably priced”
Bonus Challenge- Made in the US
Achieving all three would be the modern-day equivalent of alchemy. Achieving all four is delusional.
SB165 frameset is......*drumroll*......$4500
www.specialized.com/us/en/s-works-epic-frameset/p/154348?color=239096-154348&searchText=70319-0305
I bought my sb130 frame new for $3.5k and it made me question my sanity….
Make these in Texas and you'd maybe knock a few hundred off the top. Maybe. If you want stuff made in the USA by people paid fair wages then you're gonna have to pay for it, simple as that.
I’m a hobby framebuilder and its amazing to me that bikes are as cheap as they are. It is a miracle of the modern economy that you can buy a shred worthy bike for around $3000. Economies of scale and worldwide markets are an amazing thing.
This is how much things cost when you're not able to take advantage of low cost labor.
India and China have the toughest worker and environmental protection laws, but pollute the most. California has some of the strictest worker protection laws in the country, but all it does is cause higher unemployment rates and lower wages (all else being equal).
They are just all ignored, bribed away, or completely ineffective.
Allied is kinda sorta owned by Walmart.
The factory is in Arkansas.
The Able frame has no pivots.
It costs $4000. The cheapest Able build is $5400 and it's sold out.
Look at Figure 6.
That video is very interesting. GG is said very similar things in their solutions to improving carbon frame manufacturing. GG can make frames at a nearly half the cost of this Ibis frame in the US. Yes, the frames are not really in same category because they are so much heavier, but I'd bet GG could make a competitive XC frame close to their $2495 frame price. Ibis has a lot more overhead and Specialized and SC even more.
www.youtube.com/watch?v=sqa2oG5Uhys
GG also uses the same modular front triangle between all their bikes vs. a dedicated lightweight front triangle aimed at XC like this Ibis. Not saying one manufacturer is better than the other but I see why the Ibis costs more to produce.
www.youtube.com/watch?v=sqa2oG5Uhys
You're right.
Lets assume that regulatory capture isn't a thing, and that laws aren't ultimately written by those who stand to profit from them. Lets assume that politicians are honest and have the welfare of others in mind. Lets assume the same for regulation enforcers.
Right to work laws can be thought of as anti-laws, or laws against laws. States with these laws, in general, have more lax regulations on how employees can be fired. The end result is that these states tend to have lower rates of unemployment and higher wages. This makes sense as its less risky to hire an employee, since you know you can easily fire them if it doesn't work out. It also reduces the lawsuit risk, allowing for higher wages. It also reduces the friction of moving and finding jobs, making job-skill matching easier and more efficient. This has lifelong benefits as people more easily and earlier in life match up with the careers that work for them the best.
The other main focus of labor law is safety- OSHA. There is no evidence in the economic literature that can identify reduced workplace accidents or deaths as a result of OSHA being instituted. In the USA (and globally for the most part, with a few exceptions) workplace accidents and deaths have been dropping independent of any government action; its mostly due to rising wealth.
In the classical Hedonic wage model, you sort various jobs by risk level. To induce workers to engage in high risk activity, you have to pay them a higher wage. This is modeled out, and you can measure workers preference for risk. Younger, poorer workers tend to be less risk-adverse, so they are willing to take riskier jobs for higher wages. Historically, this is how young workers could compete against older, more mature workers and build their experience and career growth. This is also how poorer populations break into higher wage jobs (you see this with Pilipino immigrants in Japan, Mexican immigrants in the USA, etc). When you have regulations regarding safety, it raises the costs facing an employer. This means they can afford to pay their workers less (cost of compliance). This harms younger, poorer workers, and takes away their comparative advantage in the labor market.
The GG process is fundamentally different, using automated layup with a robotic system and thermoplastic binder (and Al rear triangle). This is not to mention the re-use of their carbon front triangle between models and the inherent compromise that results Altogether these lead to a frame 2-3 pounds heavier than the new ibis; it's not a good faith comparison.
You’re absolutely wrong when you claim that fewer accidents and deaths are happening in the work place “independently” of any governmental action/ regulations.
Do you have any evidence that backs this up?
Do they?. They raced a full DH WC season without any apparent fails, and bikes get brutalized at that level.
I am in Europe so I am not really the target market but this is a very good step in the right direction imo.
Exited to see where this will be heading, especially price wise.
As in "yeah nah, that's a just a bit too exie for me..."
cmon, this is top of their R&D aimed for XC racers, I believe frames will sell absolutely ok
Enduro started as a sport for the trail bike owners who had become ~90% of the market. Most people didn't own bikes suitable for XC or DH, so the all around race with timed decent segments was perfect. But now your average bike purchase won't be an enduro bike, it's reverting back towards XC, like the 120mm and 25lbs package. These new bikes are awesome, but I feel like the sport is headed towards another wave of suffering because the racing is not aligning with the bikes. Shouldn't races be won on our favorite bikes (120-160mm travel) riden by very talented and fit riders? I would argue the racing needs to change, and only XC is changing favorably.
But with the Hans Dampf pictured? nah. Those are 1075g tires at least. Then again...
The Ripley with a 6lbs frame/shock can hit 25.5lbs. Perhaps they are extrapolating from that? When Pinkbike reviewed the RIpley V4, they said 26lbs as pictured. That was with Nobby Nics, but even so, if they shed 2.5lbs they'd be around 23.5lbs, and that's pretty darn close to their claimed weight.
So close but completely missed on the reasonably priced though. $8k on an XT bike. $1,300 more than an XT Ripley.
(I don’t think anybody’s ever complained about a lack of domain name squatters)
Almost 5 inches of wheelbase difference from small to x-large, and _all_ the difference is from the front-center... those bikes are going to ride quite differently. How much would a ride review of a large or x-large really help anyone buying a size small?
If you can sell 2,000 bikes per year at $4500 and 20% margin, you're netting $1.8M
If you can sell 334 bikes per year at $9000 and 60% margin, you're still netting $1.8M and there was WAY less trouble to reach the same profitability.
Same COGs on the bike. Either way you are "in it" for $3,600.00 to manufacture and spec each bike. That said, it is much more efficient, with lover overhead costs, to hit the higher price target and sell less frames.
Yes, I realize this is reductive and doesn't account for dozens of factors, but it still explains why some brands produce $12k bikes, some brands produce $3k bikes, and why most brands produce a whole host of different frames and build kit options.
Happy 40th!
Like the idea of this. Probably a fun bike and I would take it over a Blur (which is a mm here and there away from being identical)
Brining RC out of retirement to write about the new bike from his close friends company and the fact this is the only media anywhere in this bike means this this is going to show up on trails in 2024.
Yes, this is a very expensive frame: On one hand people cry about keeping jobs and manufacturing in the USA.... but they don't want to pay for it. You can't have both.
Kudo's to Ibis for even attempting to do this (mfg in USA) and I can't wait to get a test ride. I probably won't get one, I don't race any more I am now into the bigger travel bikes, but still, I would like a test ride!
A)It ain’t affordable. If this hadn’t been mentioned in the article I wouldn’t bring it up, but maybe an AF version??
B) The purple prose is a little over the top. Several companies currently make lively short travel bikes that can handle some burlier riding. The Giant Trance 29 comes to mind as a bike that does everything this does for less coin.
Also Ibis: "lets make it in the USA no privateers can actually afford it."
They'll sell these but it won't be to local xc racers paying retail. It'll be to industry insiders, tech bros, and big spenders who don't think about price when they consider a new bike.
At best, the marketing is disingenuous. Gross.
I know Ibis has crunched the numbers and it works as figured, but affordability is relative. Just sell it as it is. An Ibis XC/light trail Superbike, made in the USA, and for people richer than you. Spare us the affordability bullshit. We can handle it.
The type of person that buys this is probably a type A, super successful, over achieving kind of person that wants something special. I’d say they nailed it and there are way more of those people than you think.
I would buy this bike if it had a 'modern' xc fit: steeper seat tube + longer reach. The new Blur, Ghost Lector FS, Norco, Epic all achieve this. For a Medium, I would have liked to have seen a 445~450 reach and much steeper seat tube, 75ish. I wonder what the geometry would look like with a 100mm fork. Surprised IBIS wouldn't want that listed.
Thank you for stating the obvious for once pinkbike.
Valuing roots is a good thing!! A very good thing!
I'm guessing it will be a LOT cheaper.
While I respect Ibis for trying, this is probably going to be a flop. Privateer racees can't afford xc bikes at that cost, they'll happily buy a Chinese carbon frame instead. So I'm not sure who their target audience is?
I don't think "dearth" means what the author intended.
Do I need one? No.
I've got a Kidney for sale if anyone is in the market.
(I acually don't know the answer)
Guess the author hasn't seen many WC races lately.
"Ibis will release the Exie this summer as a frame with a Fox Factory DPS Remote shock for $4,499 USD and in three builds, all suspended by Fox Factory DPS Remote shocks and Step-Cast 120mm forks: a $7,999 version based on Shimano Deore XT components, a SRAM X01 version for $9,199, and an all-in version for $12,799 that features SRAM XX1 AXS, Shimano XTR, Enve, Industry Nine and Cane Creek goodness."
The frame comes with a DPS shock, not a fork.
A rip-off is when a normal item that pretty much everyone really needs in some form has an insane price.
I just personally think it's overpriced. I could be the target for this as I'm looking for this exact kind of bike for a third bike and could afford it but when comparing this and say a Sworks stumpy frame for $2900 I just don't see the value. Maybe if I lived in Santa Cruz and was vested in the economy there I might feel different but it's to much of a global economy to think that me in Denver is going to make an impact by buying a California made frame.
My XC race days are long over. I have no desire to suffer uphill only to be beaten anyway because I'm not your typical hillclimb specialist body type.
$4,500...50% hit for domestic production? with those top tube wrinkles?
no mention of BB drop (not height)?
no mention of leverage ratio progression?
clevis looks trick and i like the clevis pivot design.
Frame only: $4,499 (with Fox DPS2 shock)