Burning Question: What Did the Riders & Industry Insiders Think of the Judging at Red Bull Rampage 2023?
Cam Zink sending the largest flip drop of all time (we think) en route to victory at Rampage 2023. Photo: Ale Di Lullo
Nothing drums up controversy like a judged event. Everyone shows up with a unique perspective, each rider ready to throw down in their own way, and each judge ready to watch through their lens. After an event like Red Bull Rampage 2023, the 'so-and-so got robbed' chatter is louder than ever. Now that the dust has settled on this year's event and our heart-rates have returned to normal, we wanted to take another look at the subjective nature of judging at Rampage. I reached out to a collection of folks who know more than I do: riders, photographers, Red Bull people, and even my boss.
Also, before the 'But why didn't you ask so-and-so?!' comments, we probably did ask your favorite rider/judge/industry voice. Many politely and understandably declined to comment on a charged topic. If you are a rider with something to say and we missed you, please reach out I'd love to follow up.
We asked each person what they thought of the judging and final rankings this year; we also asked if they had any thoughts about how to improve the judging in the future. We apologize for any blind spots, and we also appreciate the valuable opinions we received from some of the world's best mountain bikers, photographers, and problem-solvers.
Find the responses below.
The steeps into Zink's massive upper drop are stomach-churning, and near-impossible to translate to the viewers. Photo: Izzy Lidsky
Derek Westerlund, founder of Freeride Entertainment (who help produce the Rampage broadcast) & MTB Hall of Famer:
 | What did I think of the judging and rider order at this year's Rampage? Look. Let’s put it this way, I can count on one hand the people that have been to every Rampage. Todd Barber and myself as two of the original founders, Kyle Strait, Christian Pondella the legendary photographer, and a local dude Tyler Robinson who started running cables and now owns the production company that does the in-house show. There has never been a year where judging wasn’t a controversy… period! You can make an argument that someone is always "getting robbed." Wade won the inaugural with a crash in his run. Semenuk won 2008 with a glorified slope run. The comments and the criticisms will be there no matter what. Fun fact: We have had an unofficial betting pool for 20 years. The people that win always put a dark horse in or f*ck with the obvious. This year almost every person there took Godziek for the win and guess what? If he had finished his run, he would have won because he put it all together and 100% had the rowdiest top-to-bottom run. Bottom line is he crashed and Dustin Lindgren won the betting pool - one of our cameramen and Zink's best buddies who believed in Zink's heart, mental toughness and balls. One of two people that took Zink to win this year out of a massive group of industry insiders and people attending Rampage. Imagine the odds in Vegas… Rampage is a big mountain contest, let’s not forget it. The judges reward for riding prowess beyond tricks. Zink shredded that line. Rode full speed and attacked every inch of it. Along the way he probably did the biggest backflip ever and it was f*cking rowdy. How do you argue that a dude that rides a ridgeline with a few poppers and very little exposure beats that with two banger tricks? The Rampage judges have all ridden the contest before. Many of them have watched it since its inception. They are not biased to Americans or any of that bullsh*t. Of course they have watched Zink ride since he was 17 years old and any fan of mountain biking cheered for him. Tom and Carson has super strong runs. Better than Talus and Brendan?? Maybe… Less than two points separated them. That could have been as much as a scrub, their overall speed or one simple trick in their run. People just seem to make such a big f*cking deal about this. Bienvenido's run was rad, he had so much passion and emotion tied to coming across the finish line because of his crash a couple days earlier and the front flip and how insane it was for him to even cross the finish line. Was it a top 3 run? I don’t think so. I invite any whiny Pinkbike commenter to sit in the judges' seat and tell me they can do a better job. Of course they can! Til it gets real and you are put on the spot and have 3 minutes to pull apart every inch of the course and reward someone for risking their life. Easy right?? Is there anything I'd change about the judging or the formatting that would help make Rampage more fair? Well inherently Rampage is a "live event" and people all over the world are tuned in. Being responsible for much of this I can tell you there is no easy way around it. Last year we got f*cked because of wind and too much programming in the live show to get through. This year we made adjustments to bring the people probably our best show to date. With that came new angles and better coverage that gave the judges even more tools to use to help with an incredibly hard job. Making Rampage "more fair" is an interesting conversation. Would 15 minutes to judge a run with international judges sitting in Europe combined with 5 Rampage veterans in a trailer on site that spent 4 days picking apart every line on the course make things "more fair"? Humans are humans there will always be bias, favouritism and straight-up mistakes. The Brits will vote for Brendan, the big mountain purists will vote for Sorge and everyone will love a comeback story. AI could potentially help. Some of the crazy immersive mapping we have been doing combined with the mathematics of size and scale could potentially change things from an analytics standpoint but it would never be able to account for style or fluidity. We had the same problem in slopestyle many years ago. Same sh*t. Every contest was a controversy. So what happened? The FMBA was formed (for better or worse). All these official FIS judges from snowboarding and other sports came in and did that change everything? Hell no! What changed everything was the courses became uniform and every rider rode the exact same line and you could simply award points to the technicality of single tricks. Well guess what? Brandon and Brett were the best on the planet and straight-up dominated for over a decade. That's it, that's all. Nobody could go faster. Nobody could do an alternative line. This is what programmed everybody in mountain biking to think that tricks win contests. In 2008 when the pre-builds and wood ramps came into Rampage with slopestyle being the hot sh*t in mountain biking, it started to turn the corner from a big mountain contest. 15 years later it is a big mountain slopestyle. That is why someone like Brage Vestavik does not compete because at the end of the day if he cannot do a double backflip like Adolf - he has zero chance of winning the world's foremost "big mountain" contest. Let’s break that down for a second... Brage is one of the rowdiest, fastest and most powerful riders on a mountain bike today. Yeah he can do tricks... but he is also proving a point. It’s not about big mountain anymore. For most of the people claiming controversy they are only talking about the tricks that are done in a run. You want more fair? Take the rider field to the top of a new Rampage venue that no one has ever seen before. No diggers. No sandbags. No week-long builds and perfect landings. No endless supply of water. Give them one day with a rake and let them drop in and watch the results. There’s your best big mountain rider in the world… and I guarantee you the top 10 looks a lot different than this year's Rampage. |
Talus eying up his big drop, before stomping a massive flat drop flip can on it in his second run. Photo: Izzy Lidsky
Talus Turk, 2023 Rampage rookie and 5th-place rider:
| I think the judging at this year's Rampage was actually great! These are my only critiques that I think needed some change, but Cam should be scored probably a 90-92. Carson should be in second, Brendan in 3rd and Tom in 4th. I think I was put in a pretty good spot for my first Rampage. All this talk about Bienve and Brendan needing to win is actually kind of bullsh*t. Bienve's top half of his run was the walking path. And he had basically like three features that were crowd pleasing and one that was gnarly. But people need to realize the top half of your lines are scored pretty highly, and if you are just riding a flat/mellow ridge for a good portion of your run, it's not going to score that well. That's why Cam got scored so well 'cause he instantly started with a fall line. So did Carson, Tom, and even Brendan. In my opinion, I would have made a couple changes as a judge but Bienve was put in a pretty decent spot, could have maybe been 7th or 6th. Lastly think about Cam's run compared to Bienve's: Cam - instantly started with a steep section to a very large drop. And then proceeded to go into a step up with a flip nac and into a very large drop into a set up jump, then a massive backflip (staple move) after that a nac and a 3 drop. Bienve - started off with the walking path for riders coming up for almost a 1/4 - 1/3 of his run and then got into his first feature which was a nac into a chill 3 drop, into a technical flip then his staple move. Rest was pretty chill after that. Comparing the two there is obviously one to score better. |
Jaxson Riddle was stylish as ever in 2023, but his line left the judges wanting more. Photo: Izzy Lidsky
Dave Trumpore, Photographer & longtime Pinkbike contributor:
| I wasn't at the event in person this year, but I've shot that venue before so do have some sense of scale for the lines and features and have stoop on, under, and around all of them (yes the battleship is psycho, Semenuk's drop in that TVS did is too steep to comprehend riding). Zink wins in my book, no question. He had it all with the super exposed upper section (way gnarlier than on TV and he makes it look easy), some tricks, speed/flow and the biggest trick of anyone. Extra credit for one upping something from 10 years ago to take the progression forward. I'd say the only negative was it's a ;line he's done many times in various forms, but at the end of the day there's only so much real estate out there, and everyone kind of did the same. Yes... Brendan got robbed, but of 3rd not 1st (maybe 2nd). His line was original, exposed, a bit psycho, and little to no prior history on it. He created something thinking outside the box and rode a line no one else would want to ride if given a go. The battleship and Canyon were wild. I'd say his run was weaker at the bottom and his run one score was reflective of that being an area to improve. Had he done a second run there was room to move up and add a few points. TVS - Maybe he had an agreement to copy Semenuk, maybe he didn't. But regardless it just looked like biting a line/trick that got a lot of attention the year prior from someone who wasn't there this time. I've stood there, it's insanely steep to just caveman in, so it deserves some credit for sure. after that the line seemed very slopestyle. Carson - Rad run and awesome to see him get some redemption at Rampage. He took a steep upper line into his run, but it wasn't as risky or exposed as Brendan or ZInks. Dare I say it was a straightforward way of adding some "exposure" for the judges, but in the scope of Rampage it was exactly that. The rest of his run was clean and flowing, but still looked like a slopestyle. I'd have him scored behind Brendan for that. Hindsight is 20/20 as they say, and a dealbreaker for me as the armchair judge afforded that luxury, was the fact that Carson and TVS took a party lap down their lines at the end. And it looked like a cruise through a big slopestyle course. I feel like nobody would take a fun run down Brendan's line, and to me that really put things into perspective as to why I felt he should have gotten more love from the judging. The only other wildcard for me was Bienve... his second run was amazing. Big tricks, big energy, and a pretty big line. The top was fairly straight forward and it took time to get into anything wild, but the second half was just something else. I had him and Talas maybe in a draw. Both of them were there for the first time and got sh*t done, which is a rarity for Rampage rookies. Godziek - What could have been. His line had the potential but it would have taken something next level to top Zink's 95. The rest who finished clean runs all kind of blended together for me. safer traversing lines off the top into various trick jumps. And while the various jumps and drops were big, they were all quite buffed and manicured. If you look down from the top of Rampage it kind of looks like a bike park, not some rowdy cliff zone. Something the TV viewer or spectator doesn't see when most vantage points come from looking up and seeing cliff faces as opposed to the trail being ridden. As for the rider order, I don't have an opinion and I was not aware of any controversy there. It always sucks to go in the top 4 of a judged comp, but it's a two run format with the second run being reseeded in reverse by score. So it balances out I suppose. The last time I was there they just went based on the farthest line to the lookers left and worked their way across to lookers right for logistical reasons. Cameras, safety crews, media would just shuffle across the hill which was definitely a worse way to do it... but really there is never a good way. |
Brendan Fairclough's suicide over his raw canyon gap impressed everyone and put him within striking distance of the podium. Photo: Alexandra Christensen
Wade Simmons, the Godfather of Freeride & inaugural Red Bull Rampage winner:
| First off, there is always going to be controversy around judged events, I think it’s human nature to support 'your people,' whether it be nationality - lots of comments from UK users supporting Fairclough's alleged misjudging - or dig crew etc. I unfortunately couldn’t watch the entire show on the live feed, but I’ve watched all the runs many times now on Pinkbike. And, I have discussed this judging debate with many people so far. Personally, I think the judges pretty much nailed the top 5. In my opinion, Zink definitely won it with authority. He attacked his lines with no hesitation, and was on the gas pretty much the whole way down - I enjoy watching other sports with similar events, like free skiing, and the winners there are attacking lines, no show of hesitation or second thoughts - Zink definitely showed this in his run. When you watch say Bienvenido’s line, which was awesome of course with the big frontflip over the gap, and well deserving of his awards, he didn’t have the charging confidence off the top. You could tell he was maybe thinking about his big move coming up - and 1 or 2 big moves doesn’t win Rampage. That too, could be said for Brendan’s line, apart from the battleship sketchy top feature, and the ridiculously scary canyon gap, I would not be satisfied as a judge having that run win Rampage. I could see how people might comment on Carson's run being scored too high, but after watching all the runs many times now, I think he is well deserving of 3rd place. He rode with confidence and nailed every trick clean, he landed in the sweet spot on every jump and tricked almost everything he hit. If you look at the run points, Zink's score may have been scored high with the 95, but I think he did lay down the winning run. |
The scale and steepness of the terrain at Rampage is near-impossible to convey to viewers. Photo: Ale Di Lullo
Brian Park, Director of MTB at Pinkbike / Outside:
| There are so many ways to put my foot in my mouth with this topic. Judging Rampage is an unwinnable job. I would never do it. Nobody’s ever going to be happy, and everyone involved is genuinely doing their best. How most of us ride is so far removed from what Rampage is, that I barely think any of our opinions matter. I agree with the adage that you have to have walked the whole course to be able to judge it correctly. Even being on site below the middle road (which is the highest spectators are allowed) doesn’t give you enough perspective; scoring at the top is where all the steep/tech points come from, so it’s critical to understand how all those lines stack up. It’s also worth acknowledging that today there are some judging realities that are clear to every competitor ahead of time: drops are scored higher than jumps; you probably can’t win Rampage in 2023 without doing a commitment trick (flip or spin) off a flat drop; and every line needs some steep and tech. If your line cruises up top, or you don't do any commitment tricks, there's a limit to how high you can score. That said, I also understand viewers’ frustrations. Rampage risks its identity if the general public can’t understand the results. There's a huge opportunity for the event to inform and explain to make sure the viewers get it. For the record, my personal top 8 was Zink, Van Steenbergen, Fairclough, Storch, Turk, Johansson, Alba, Strait. While I don’t fully agree with the judged ranking this year, I don’t have an issue with it—but I do think it’d be great to have more context and transparency for the viewers and athletes. I will say I’m frustrated with *some* of the scoring complaints from viewers. Brendan and Bienve did two of my favourite runs this year, and I can see arguments for either Bienve OR Brendog being scored slightly higher than they were, but not both. I find it a bit strange that some people are calling for them to be 1st and 2nd on the podium. If you recalibrate to prioritise tricks and flow, Brendan goes down the scoresheet and Bienve goes up. If you recalibrate to prioritise creative lines and raw tech, Bienve goes down the scoresheet and Brendan goes up. The way I see it, you can't have it both ways. If they were first and second, it would have been wildly unfair to the other competitors based on consistent judging criteria. To be honest, rather than arguing about this year, I’d rather talk about constructive ideas for the future. Here’s some ways I think the event could improve (with the ever-present caveat that it's easy to have ideas and hard to make them happen): • Pre-score the lines. It'd be great if every rider knew a score of what riding their line will earn without any tricks before they drop. The judges have already deliberated on that throughout the week, so they might as well share. The commentators could also have these numbers and be able to talk about them during the broadcast. This would help viewers understand, for example during Bienve’s run, that his top section was incredibly mellow (comparative to the other lines), and set the stage for him to exceed scoring expectations when he crushed the bottom half of his run and be excited about his score rather than disappointed. It would also allow the riders to be more calculating about what they want to achieve. I have a lot of sympathy for riders that thought they had a top line, do a successful run, and then get a mid-level score (Lacondeguy). • Hold back scores during first runs to calibrate all the scores. This would allow judges to rewatch the runs, not have to buffer for future riders, and get it right the first time. While I am largely fine with this year’s rankings, the scores raise some eyebrows, and I assume are a result of leaving room for other riders. Not great. If the scores are held back during first runs, they can be a big reveal during the broadcast that goes bottom to top, and ramps up the drama for second runs. Second runs would be scored live, with a baselines of the riders’ first runs. • Don’t run the first half of the broadcast live. Running everyone in quick succession for first runs seems to me like it would solve a lot of problems. It would help let more riders drop in ideal weather windows, and still give the broadcast flexibility in terms of the necessary ads, promotion, etc... Then the broadcast can catch up to live through the second runs, similar to a World Cup. • De-prioritize minor crashes. I’d love to encourage completed runs even when riders dab or wash out. Obviously I don’t want anyone sending after taking a hit to the head, but in the spirit of raw, big mountain freeride, I don’t care if someone puts a foot down as they’re dropping into a doom chasm. • Add the women’s category. I know this isn’t directly about judging, but I think it's important to put out there wherever we can. With my suggestions above, the broadcast can fit in additional contestants without cutting anyone (I’m also fine cutting some of the bottom men to bring in some of the top ladies). My final thought is that so much of the "controversy" risks minimising the riders', judges', and organisers' efforts—and that's a shame. What I’m trying to say is, sorry in advance for my semi-informed take. The event was absolutely incredible this year, and we’re lucky to have witnessed this level of riding. |
The insanely high risk battleship feature that Brendan and Szymon rode had some conflicted on how to score it. Photo: Ale Di Lullo
Anonymous longtime Rampage photographer:
| First off, as a long time Rampage photographer with 11 years at the event I have documented and witnessed the amazing talents of all these athletes and call most of them close friends. That also includes the judges, staff and everyone involved. I respect every single rider there and am honored to have been a part of the event for so long. In regards to the 2023 event, I completely agree with the judges decision that Cam Zink won Rampage. Watching on tv will never do justice to how big that line was and by far was one of the more wild Rampage runs I've ever seen. I don't need to pick apart every detail of his run because we have all seen it but to me it had everything that breathed a Rampage win. Big exposure, massive drop up top, huge step down flip and the energy really showed. Judges are not looking at the "one trick" to consider a win, which if you look back to 2013 Cam did not win the event because although he did flip the Oakley sender the rest of his run was average along with not finishing soon after the flip. Same goes with Bienve who I loved to see ride. That said most of his run up top was cruisy, no big moves or exposure, etc which heavily docked the points along with again; not finishing his run completely. The frontflip was crazy but it was on a pre-built feature with a massive run in, big lip and landing so I don't think it was technically harder than Cam's backflip. At the end of the day Bienve walked away with a ton of trophies, respect all around and will also have a lot of sponsorship value. As far as the judging goes, his number score could have been higher but top to bottom I don't think the run could have bumped anyone else out of place. Brendog on the other hand I could have put in second place but again it was not a clear winning run. Top 5 is huge for most of these riders and is obviously getting a lot of press out of it so it's not like he's missing out on any publicity. No one will ever be happy with judging and I don't think there will be a perfect answer to those decisions but the only spot that people remember is 1st which Cam deserved in every way. Diving deeper into the judging side of things there's a lot of accusations flying around and crisistim which I understand. To begin, I do not think any judge is being paid off or influenced by a rider. Nor are they favoring NA riders. Saying that they are giving good scores to their friends is completely wrong. Mainly because there isn't enough money in it to be rigged and no rider there is actually that close of friends with any of the judges. Some are even not as close as they used to be. But I do think it is time for a fresh crop of diverse judges from around the world that are a bit more in touch with the current riding scene. Would love to see guys like Martin Soderstrom, Connor McFarlane, Bryn Atkinson, and a more rounded field of new judges at such a high stakes event. It would help the viewers too feel confident in the decisions being made and also the riders. |
Bienve's front flip on the canyon gap earned him a boatload of cheers (and awards), but his run was limited by a 'chill' upper section. Photo: Alexa Christensen
Todd Barber, H5 Events, Red Bull Rampage organizer:
| At this point, I do not want to open a can of worms by commenting too much, but I will say I think the judging was done very well this year and that I think we have the best and most qualified judges we could ever ask for. There is so much hard work that goes into being a judge at this event and these guys take it beyond serious by showing up days before the event and walking, measuring and discussing lines with each athlete. It is a judges' event and it will always be subjective. I appreciate the passion of everyone online who has commented, it just shows how much people care about this legendary event. However, until you are there live and having to judge 18 of the world’s best athletes, with 18 different lines / riding styles, it is hard to give any of it too much weight. |
Your 2023 Red Bull Rampage podium. Photo: Ale Di Lullo
Cam Zink, 2013 and 2023 Red Bull Rampage winner:
| I didn’t realize there was a discrepancy with the judging until Claw put out a video, as everyone on-site seemed to agree with the standings, also could have just been on such a high from accomplishing a life long goal, judging discrepancies weren’t exactly on my mind. There are a lot of people complaining about judging every year, but it’s to be expected. I have come into the finish corral numerous times thinking I had just put down the winning run, but more times than not, the judges had other ideas. My favorite run I ever had, until this year, got me 6th! And to add to it, it was a completion of the the run that awarded me second the year prior. Judging is subjective by nature, and when you judge an event where nobody is riding the same course, it’s bound to have some discrepancies. Now let’s add in another layer of the viewers watching a two-dimensional screen to formulate their own opinions. There are some people that take their potentially uninformed opinions too far… the hype for their favorite rider can sometimes cloud the bigger picture. Or even create hate and anger towards other riders. It is much more difficult to take a step back and think, “Maybe the people I’m rooting for actually got over-judged?” Or, “Maybe it’s hard to have an objective opinion without being there?” And always remember, this is a Big Mountain Event. I rewatched every run this morning to see if my initial impressions were off and here is my rundown: Talus and Kyle should have been 4th and 5th. Brendan and Bienve 6th and 7th. Emil might have even ended up in 4th after his second run. That’s because I value a similar ethos of Rampage as those runs; using the steepest part of the mountain well and I respect the sh*t out of blind step-downs. Riding ridges has always docked scores down, and jumps where you can see the landing the entire time are much easier, and safer than blind jumps. But that’s just me, and I’m not a judge. The judges were walking around all week, studying lines, measuring, etc, and they are more experienced than ever. They have their formulas of how to judge this big mountain event. Just to put into perspective, (the things I know about our lines) the speed jump, before Kyle and I’s biggest step-down, was 55 feet. And the step down before, that broke Kyle’s back, was 40 feet tip-to-tip. Just to get enough speed… And Kyle and I both went 80-85 feet on the big dog. I heard some of the production crew say it was the most spot on judging they had seen in Rampage, so I will take it as letting the judges do their job and respecting their decision no matter what place I am sitting in. |
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Plus, I do not think I can get this "Norbs was robbed” tattoo off my lower back.
Best Rampage ever.
Be anonymous or say that the judges were right. Otherwise you won't get access to the event next year.
"No one will ever be happy with judging and I don't think there will be a perfect answer to those decisions but the only spot that people remember is 1st which Cam deserved in every way."
My opinion is that the big issue was transparency, and when you read the comments I think most people were similar - they couldn't understand how scores were reached. There are some good opinions on here as to how that can be overcome, and I hope that RB consider whether the judging format can be improved and don't just dismiss all the 'whiny pinkbikers' - Even if you don't do it for those who are disaffected, surely it's worth it so that the riders understand and don't have their results tainted by online backlash... We should be talking about them, and not the judging, so what greater reason do you need?
I also feel that, for scoring for technicality to be fair, you need a new zone each time. Saying that Bienve's run shouldn't be scored as high because his top section was tame *may* be a little unfair if he wasn't able to use one of the other runs? I don't know if this is the case, but there is always suggestion that ownership of each run is a bit tribal (maybe correctly?)? I also think it's an advantage to be working on a pre built route than start from scratch...
Lastly, well done to all the riders again - every one of them was phenomenal.
The judges bring technical scoring into it with merits and demerits according to if something is equally difficult over here rather than over there and people land high on the podium while a lower scoring run captures everyone else's attention and emotion.
If Rampage is to be a thrilling "send-fest" then the emotional spectacle outweighs the technical spectacle. Big mountain freeride is an art-form and should be judged aesthetically and artistically.
I'm personally all about aesthetics being rated much higher but I know I am unique in that regard.
What I remember the most about rampage is McGazza's canyon flip, and IIRC he wasn't the winner.
Also Zink - " They should have scored Brendan lower"
Talk about a dickhead!
fight Fight FIGHT FIIIIIIIGHHHHHHHHTHTTHTTTT FiGIGHIHROIHsef;ohnbqw.kdbnWG/LWEFJKNwmwE:KLgvneg
1. Brendog
2. Bienve
3. Zink
His run was my favorite, but im just a stupid, whiney, know-nothing pinkbike commenter.
same, in a few years all that I'll remember from this Rampage is Bren's whole run, Bienve's Flip, and C-dog's crash. the scores don't matter that much. (prize money aside)
Brendan’s line was really sick, but unless you walk that hill you cant judge that it was “gnarlier” than most of the lines headed straight down. They are just as technical and just as hard if not more so, plus any number of groms these days could ride Brendan’s lower section just as good if not way better. Cam’s flip was impressive, but that upper part of his and Kyle’s line was f*cking gnarly and took some serious technical skills plus size able airs to get to the big one.
Fun fact: the very last guy to claim and retrieve his bike from the valet lot was Cody who was on the 2nd season of PB Academy. We roasted him, but he was a good sport.
Fun fact #2: One of my buddies was given a pair of Pit Viper shades by a pro rider. He said "I just talked to Bas Van Steenbergen and he game me these sunglasses!!". Turns out it was actually Paul Basagoita - this buddy of mine started riding in 2017 and didn't know who Paul Bas was, assumed the pro was BVS after seeing "Athlete" wrist band and heard other people calling him "Bas".
Fun fact #3: We ran into O-dub after the event, and my buddy yelled "Hey Olly, just f'king roll it!!" Olly stared cracking up and we got to hang out with Brendog, Olly, and Deeks for a few minutes. Real down-to-earth good dudes.
Lifetime memories. Whether you agree with judging or not, I highly recommend attending a live event if you have means to do so.
They know they’re right because they’re right, even if the people that were there and have much more experience and knowledge say otherwise - they still believe they were right.
Irrelevant. If someone has experience with a trick that wins, but someone else rides and does a technically harder trick, but the former person doesn't think its impressive because he is not used to that, the "experience" and "knowledge" is going to lead to a much lower score.
The only way to solve this would be to have a concrete scoring rubric. Take every riders line, measure drop and jump distances, then give each trick a point value based on technicality, then add/subrtract points for things like wind, narrowness of lines, dabs, e.t.c.
Right now, if someone did a massive 200ft drop without anything else and rode out of it, they would score low, but in the spirit of the competition, they should technically win rampage.
Brendog's Canyon Gap: Exposure: 9, Trick: 5, Amplitude: 7, Technicality: 8, Style: 8
Cam's backie: Exposure: 10, Trick: 10, Amplitude: 10, Technicality: 10, Style: 10 (or whatever... I'm not a judge)
This then all gets averaged up for each section of the course and added for a total score. Sure some sections are weighted more, sounds great. But the point being that it would add clarity for viewers to see how a line with high exposure (e.g. battleship) doesn't add more than 10-15 points to a run unless there's an insane trick added, due to the low amplitude and technicality, notwithstanding high exposure.
Not suggesting this be implemented of course, more just thinking how I would potentially approach judging if I had to.
Interesting that the event is accepted as a slope-freeride event. The fact that Brage would likely build something in line with Brendog's and Gee's lines and not win (per Derek) is frustrating, because Zink won with a tech-heavy line, followed up by 2 slope runs that started with a gnarly steep.
There's no single fix to the event, and it's obviously complicated. I'd like for judges to hold their votes until the end of the round and be given an opportunity to adjust based on the whole field's runs.
It seems that
"original, exposed, a bit psycho, and little to no prior history on it. ...thinking outside the box ... a line no one else would want to ride if given a go"
doesn't stand up to
"exposed upper section, some tricks, speed/flow and the biggest trick of anyone [subjective]... a line he's done many times in various forms"
Now everyone knows: lots of speed and tricks on old lines beats fresh psycho lines with slightly fewer tricks
But I think the common perception of Rampage has been that fresh, creative lines with nasty exposure and "no one else would want to ride" vibes were powerful and what should be expected. It seems that has changed, even if the judges had to let the world know after the fact. If "freeride" isn't about creativity combined with insanity, what else is it?
Also, dock points for established lines, or reward points for new lines. It's not exactly fair that some riders will get the steepest/gnarliest part of the hill because it was their line years ago while others will have to traverse, judged poorly, to get to their own section.
If he means the battleship, then holy shit, some perspective adjustment might be needed. Consensus* seemed to be that falling off one side of that couple foot wide ridge was probably death, and the other side was probably 2 broken femurs. If that's not exposure, then I guess Gee's last video part also had "very little exposure"!
* (besides some people directly involved with the event who were betting behind the scenes [like that's not shady as f*ck, BTW])
There is no doubt in my mind that he could flip that drop.
Brendog is certainly not one of the riders i could picture stepping up to flip that drop.
But, getting a viral clip seems like a win in and of itself. I would think riders value that more than moving up a the rankings a little.
"Take the rider field to the top of a new Rampage venue that no one has ever seen before. No diggers. No sandbags. No week-long builds and perfect landings. No endless supply of water. Give them one day with a rake and let them drop in and watch the results. There’s your best big mountain rider in the world"
Would love to see that.
I still don't have a solid explanation of the vast, vast difference in opinion between judges & R-Bull / PB fans award for best rider. PB polls afterward going near 10,000 (for Bren / Bienve, combined) - 10-1 over Zink.
it fully accounts for what judges know & see live vs what we're seeing live, but it seems to beg the question / notion that when it's that vast of a difference from judges to fans - somethings messed up. Maybe that's from how groomed out these lines are now...or maybe it's just because is fans think we know shit we don't. So sure, there is controversy every year but I'm just saying it seems like the scale of it keeps getting bigger and bigger
"Semenuk won 2008 with a glorified slope run."
"Rampage is a big mountain contest, let’s not forget it. The judges reward for riding prowess beyond tricks. Zink shredded that line."
"Brage is one of the rowdiest, fastest and most powerful riders on a mountain bike today. Yeah he can do tricks... but he is also proving a point. It’s not about big mountain anymore."
There should be no scores, only placings, whether live or after first runs. It is a once a year event that is not tied to any other competitions. It was part of the FMB series before and points made a difference to the slopestyle riders but no longer does. So why bother?
And why is Riddle even there? He obviously wants to ride a motocross bike.
Everyone has the same opportunity to look at the hill and take whatever line they want down.
When there eventually is a fresh site, it will draw a lot more interest and excitement. But land management and permits have to allow that to happen and the organizers are currently doing the best they can on that front. It's not like there's an endless supply of zones to choose from and to keep the event running longterm, there's gonna have to be venues reused in the meantime.
I dont mind zink's run being top one, but him throwing shade at brandog makes me loose a lot of respect i have for him.
Or they could just keep it as a blackbox, pushing away great riders who don't want to guess what is wanted.
And continue behind the scenes gambling that absolutely has zero influence on anything sarcasm, if it wasn't obvious>.
Every rider that completes a run at Rampage gets massive exposure for their sponsors, and better earning potential for the future by having been there.
It's rare that an invite be turned down, without good reason/injury, because just to be invited is huge.
Judging will always be subjective and the fact everyone is riding a different line complicates it even more.
The best approach to the event is to go in, find a line that suits your strengths, build it and just ride your best on the day. No expectations.
As teams, we barely have the time during the build to see what everyone's lines consist of top to bottom, so there's no way of knowing where your line stands compared to anyone else, unless you're slacking off and walking the whole hill before you've finished your own line.
Everyone can dream of winning in the back of their minds, but to have your heart set on that is the wrong approach and most of the riders know this. It's not the riders complaining about the standings this year.
On Moving The Needle, Darren suggests that every judged competition is just as controversial. That's wrong. Some are, certainly, but _most_ have many many technical considerations to make the judging clearer: trick difficulty ratings, visibility into each judge's scores, open-ended scoring (is a 95 really just 5% from perfect?), etc etc. In Rampage, it's completely opaque. Shit, it's not easy to even find out who did the judging!
I'm not even complaining about the actual results this year, they are what they are. But considering how many people are asking "_why_ didn't this win or even score higher?", there is an obvious disconnect between expectations and the end results. If the self-proclaimed "organizer" doesn't have the power/guts/brains to address that, who does?
I for one, think it's odd that not one gravel bike rider was invited to the event. Did anyone pick up on that? This whole event is rigged!
“ Along the way he probably did the biggest backflip ever and it was f*cking rowdy”
And the reasons/excuses they have come up with for scoring a certain rider the way they did contradicts the way they scored another rider. Textbook overconfidence in my opinion.
I will say though that Storch is probably suffering from the Semenuk curse a little bit here because he rode so smooth and precise it looked too easy.
But still, BD to #3 for me.
What's really nutz is not a single one of us has a dog in this fight, no monetary investment, no legal involvement, nothing but personal interest as a spectator.
Humans are so wierd.
100/100 for signature block competition
A better approach would be to just enjoy Rampage for what it is. All these runs are insane. If you have issues with subjective competitive formats (judged events), may I suggest watching DH racing.
This sums it up. Step downs/drops are MUCH harder to ride than tables and similar feature where you can see the landing, especially with the exposure they have on that course. Plus, The top is WAY more exposed than the lower sections. The nature of TV production scrubs this aspect out of the viewing experience.
Zink for sure did a very raw line and well deserved to win a big mountain judging.
But unlike others he did practice for that run like no other.
True there is only so much "real estate" but still the idea behind rampage does not go along with riding and practicing the same lines year after year in and out Ramapage season very well. At least for me. It is/was supposed to be a contest where you have limited time to prepare for it.
From that perspective I would have liked to see Brendan in the top 3. New line, good execution.
On the other hand things changed a lot duing the last decade. Athleates have training grounds the veterans would not have been dreaming about. 16x Ramapage. So my expecations might be outdated.
If the site does not allow to much line creativity any more anyway.
Maybe it's really best to rate the lines upfront so riders and views have a better idea of the judging upfront.
give us more Interviews and more fuel for the fire
But who WOULD win in that hypothetical raw big mountain contest?
A wildman like Brage or Andreu?
"I didn't go, nor did I watch the live feed but yeah my buddy definitely won"
If Semenuk can win with a tailwhip off a big drop, which is a very technical move, then Bienve should be able to win with a front flip, which is the hardest trick on an MTB, especially over a gap - the rotation is very hard to achieve and the landing is blind unlike a backflip.
Thats not to say Cam Zink didn't deserve the win for his complete run, but its pretty clear that the ranking of the other riders is wildly inconsistent.