What if You Could Design Your Dream Bike? - Pinkbike Poll

 Perhaps a community driven frame as the Germans did it two times already:
www.mtb-news.de/news/2017/05/17/test-alutech-icb-2-0

 It's so covert, it's overt...

 @pr3dator: The angles, geometry, travel etc. on the ICB 2.0 remind me of my Knolly Endorphin.

 Might they be--dare I say--mining data to sell to bike manufacturers???? *gasp*

 @pr3dator: I've been looking at that bike for over a year now, like it so much! The only thing I don't get is why they made it so that it won't take a rear brake rotor smaller than 180mm. But other than that, I like it. Portus cycles will even make you a steel one if you want. It is open source after all.

If this is the goal, clever from PB to do it in a poll format. We typically kill each other in the comment section but at least they're getting number. Then again, these number mean pretty much nothing in isolation.

 @zsandstrom: why would they sell it? The manufacturer can just come look at it here...

 The "26 for life" crowd has this to say about the result of the poll for the question - what would the perfect wheelsize be?

"This poll has been rigged!"

 @WAKIdesigns: No people just forgot how good 26 was or they want the fastest wheels they can get and have little fun on them.
#26aintdead

 @WAKIdesigns: And yes, I chose 26

 @UserNumberTwo: Have little fun on them? You're spending time with the wrong group of mountain bikers dude. It's a rare day I see anybody out on the trails all stone face and miserable, and when I do it definitely aint because of their wheel size.

 @MortifiedPenguin: Great question. There's a 99.9% chance that the results are logged by user. The value isn't knowing about the public's opinion about reach; reach is height-dependent. The real gold is knowing what people with a particular reach preference think about chainstays, travel, wheel size, and head tube angles, or about what 29er fans think about seat tube angle and reach. To get that info, you need to know a complete set of responses by user, and for that you'll need the back-end data from the PinkBike server.

But who knows? Maybe they provide it for free for people that pay for advertising.

 @zsandstrom: this polls rigged, 26" for life bitchezzz

 The most popular poll numbers equate very, very, closely to a YT Jeffsy 27. I like more travel so voted differnetly, but it's nearly dead-on.

 Hard to weigh up results when some people will answer for DH, some Enduro etc etc..

 @zsandstrom: my exact thoughts on reach. I was surprised by the most popular reach length. It made me wonder how tall most people answering this poll is. Then it made me wonder what questions they hope to answer in these polls because knowing desired reached without height and inseam at a minimum makes it tough to correlate the results.

 @jojotherider1977: I guess the real winner in this scenario is Robot Bike. Just get it built exactly the way you want it and be done forever. Perfect size, perfect geo, and lifetime warranty....all custom tailored to your liking. Hard to beat.

 @vinay: I just wangled myself an XL icb
m.pinkbike.com/photo/14907563
Have to say it actually is as good as it sounds on paper.

 @WAKIdesigns: it's funny how often the people who bring wheelsize up are doing it to bash 26" wheel crowd before anyone ever says 26 anything someone says something about "the 26" riders will have something to say about this!" The people who bitch about wheels probably don't spend enough time making wheels of any size turn in the dirt.

 @scar4me: Now where can I get one?

 @pr3dator: i like the idea of a community driven frame. Reminds me of what chapman guitars does, or at least did when they first hit the market. I have toyed with wondering if the mtb community is big enough to pull off a Chapman-esque business model. Maybe pinkbike thought something similar...

 @zsandstrom: Pretty much stealing candy from a bunch of babies

 @zsandstrom: except they don't have to sell it, since it's free on the site. How would they monetize the results of this poll when you or I can just write down the results?

 @zsandstrom: good observation, too bad a bike manufacturer just has to pay attention and participate to get the info for free

 Crowdsourced bike designs...linux-esque steeze for the masses.

 @rnayel: such a great bike it is. Kicking myself that it took so long to get one.

 They forgot the most important question: "how much do you want to pay for your bike"

 @WAKIdesigns: Make MTB Great again! 26 First!

 @UserNumberTwo: fast is fun.
Faster is even funner.

 @UserNumberTwo: So did I.

 @MortifiedPenguin: At face value, the poll results are useless. I was noting angles for a DH bike, what were you thinking of?

The question about wheel travel is like a filter. I'd hope PB has the ability to sort all the results based on wheel travel for them to use as they wish, be it a more in depth "results" article or to sell (or to start a bike company).

  @MortifiedPenguin:

 @WAKIdesigns: ha ha...26 was robbed

 @zsandstrom: Why would they buy the data when you can get the results for free?

 @WAKIdesigns: I'm 26 fo life an I wouldn't say the poll has been rigged. I'd say mountain bikers are (gullible) dicks.....

 @WAKIdesigns: I'm only 26 for life because I have a perfectly good 26 bike, lots of spare tyres and love how it rides. I also don't race.

I'll happily admit I've ridden a lit of 27.5 and 29ers and enjoyed them, I'm just too poor to size up.

 @scar4me: Cool!

@UserNumberTwo: That's the first crowd bike (the first ICB). It is a bit more of a longer travel beast. The current bike is built by Alutech but as it is open source, you can get a steel version from portus bikes too . The project page is crowd.bike (easy, isn't it?), you can get the bike or frame (with or without shock) from Alutech directly (alutech-cycles.com/ICB20_1) . Seems like they switched to a different OEM supplier too. The lower end spec (Ergeschloss) used to be a SRAM affair, now it is more Formula. They usually also have a higher end spec. Used to be with Magura brakes and Fox suspension, I wonder what they're working on now. But the best deal is probably just the frame (currently discounted) with the tuned shock.

 You're thinking way too far. We love talking about geometry, right? PB likes us to visit their website so they simply ask us to discuss geometry. Works a charm, doesn't it?

Now, they could also have asked us which motor to spec. That, my friends, would be the end of the internet.

 @VwHarman: I've spent some time on every single wheelsize in the last 2 years. From 12" to 29+. Skipped 14" only...

 God help the bike company that makes a design based on Pinkbike opinions.
You'd end up with the "Homer"

 @Jamesb15uk: And asking for things like ideal reach without any relation to rider height...

 @IllestT: What is a "homer". I checked the internet but all I'm getting are piictures of Homer Simpson.

 @vinay: homerun

 Doesn't matter. Companies will still dictate that we need 51mm offset on 29ers, because that's what's convenient. Same with 650b offsets.

 @vinay: Thanks for the info man.

 @nojzilla: or sheeps

 All this poll tells me is that y'all been buying the bullshit they've been hammering into you with every bike review.

 @nojzilla: Never have I encountered something on 27.5 I wasn't able to do on 26. I wish we could get past buying product in an industry because in a race its a better idea. 27.5 is wonderful for climbing and rolls fast in a world cup race, but really it's ultimately about how much fun I'm having. That fun, to me, is amplified when I ride 26 wheels.

 @NickDHash: oh totally, personaly... I'm plus size bmx more than mtb. So 26 works best for my ride style. Most of the pro riders who's style I admire are on custom 26ers even though thier sponsors don't market the bikes they're riding. I have enough (rich) friends who ride a LOT of bikes an say they haven't noticed any difference between 26 an tweeners but I also have friends who say that tweeners are awesome. To them I debate.. Are the new wheels or the new bike with new geo an suss tech the difference??
I have 4 bikes all 26, there's no way I'm gonna waste thousands of pounds getting rid of my 26inch bikes for tweeners when the performance improvement is none to little but, I guess I'm one of the "94% that aren't pro enough to notice the difference " (nice ad campaign rock shox)
I'm coming from a BMX an skate background an to me the big mtb industry is no better than other big money grabbing industries like automotive or big pharma.
Believe it or not the industry does want one standard it lowers production costs, and that standard boys an girls is...........
E'bike....
It's not a conspiracy if it's true, a good few articles on here have just as much admitted the fact
26FL

 @zsandstrom:
74° seat angle, I wish they weren't!

 @scary1: There are people that can smoke others on their bigger wheels. Yes, faster is fun.

 @vinay: yeah - exactly that youtu.be/WPc-VEqBPHI

I just reacquainted myself with that clip. So funny, it's well worth a watch

 @endlessblockades: Or an Ibis Mojo HD4

 @pinkbike ill take one

 @SpinningAddiction: To match travel to geo.

 @WAKIdesigns: Bet you skipped 19 too unless you had a go on a micro mini bmx or trials bike.

 @vinay: Homer Simpson's ideal car. In the episode where his brother, a big shot in the automobile industry, let's Homer design a car.

 So GT and its triple triangle is gonna make a huge comeback. Huge.

 @dontcoast: Whoosh

 @arrowheadrush: @arrowheadrush: swooosh over everyones heads or woosh airball?

 I can't up score that enough.

 Why do they call it a "headset"? The bearings turn, the stem turns... they should call it a "headturn."

 @nuttypoolog: because it's a set of parts.

 Love the down votes.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Headset_ First sentence.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Head_tube first bullet point under bearings.

 @WolfStoneD:

This link's for you buddy.

youtu.be/j0qm0KUPeD8

 you definitely do notice 5mm of chainstay difference because the back wheel is right next your feet, you know almost exactly where it is. half a deg of h/a, 5mm reach, not so much in my opinion

 @VtVolk
...or alternatively, some people may have been keeping records of the geo of the bikes they've ridden over the past decades, may have played with 'flip chips', stem lengths, 650B / 26" interchangeable dropouts and so on, and, shock horror, are actually in a position (albeit far from encyclopaedic or perfect) to be able to know what they like??

It is all out there people, and opens up a world of empowerment once you begin to try a few things out.... go on, you might surprise yourself what you learn.

 @orientdave: I'm with you all the way . I love to tinker and try things out.

I still maintain that "most of us" [pinkbike regulars] are deep in the comments battles to learn, specifically because they/we can't/won't/haven't had real time on lots of diverse frames.

Hence the information consumption, regurgitation, and gradual group think that smart bike people and website people have realized helps make tons of money.

 Agreed. Outside of rear suspension and tire size the average rider probably doesn't even know the specs of the bike they currently ride. How much you wanna bet many of respondents just went with something near the middle?

 @robwhynot: Agree and disagree. There are a few (myself include) who are geometry geeks and know their own bikes off by heart. There are others who just don't care and just ride.

For me it's two things... firstly I want to know what the upper limits in geometry are as I don't think we are quite there yet. Companies like Pole and Mojo / Nicolai (etc) are probably getting close. Secondly I want to make an informed choice on my next bike. I don't buy bikes that often so need to choose something that will last geo wise. If you change your bike every few years it doesn't matter as much.

 I dont go full nerd but I do know my bikes numbers and most of the numbers for the lasr 2-3. Or maybe that is full nerd. Helps a ton when buying a new frame. Id even say I trust the numbers more than a test ride since the test bike can have weird shitty distracting components

 When I'm out riding with people and bike performance is brought up; and I ask them "when's the last time they had their fork/shock/dropper serviced?" And I'm met with blank stares, this is the type of rider the industry is catering to. Same goes for this lightweight circle jerk riders want to compete in.

 @acetasting1992: I wish they had half degrees for head angle.

 @robwhynot: I did on reach cause it's related to seat angle. I went steeper on STA and longer on reach to compensate, than anything I've ridden.

 Me personally, my ideal bike is incompatible with literally every current standard. Also I have a hundred thousand dollars to spend on it.

 @WaterBear: have you checked some craigslist ads? I guarantee you you will find something.

 Or your height....

 Forget about bike sizes and even people sizes for a minute and just take it as it is - most people want 460mm reach. You don't necessarily have to make any more sense of it than that. I guess it is just relative to average height of those polled but we should be thinking about getting out of the 'size' box and more about what's best for a given purpose and/ or person. Sometimes that is simply what they like best and it doesn't need to go any deeper than that. It's just bikes. Man.

 I guess if enough people vote it will be an accurate reflection of the wants of a 5'9" person. Make the highest voted reach be your size medium.

 @ThomDawson: Fair enough for the average sized person but I'm 189cm so naturally I like a reach of something more like 480mm. To get really accurate information you'd have to break the answers down to reflect the height of the rider, which is probably beyond the intention of this poll.

 I was thinking about this. A medium frame with 550mm reach doesn't make sense. Unless we mount our stems behind the headtube... new trend maybe?

 Why? In my mind reach approximates the comfortable distance to the bars when I'm standing on the bike, as opposed to seated. I don't get how seat tube height or bike size label affects that.

 @WaterBear: Because a bike size would imply a body size. If 1000 people who are 5'6" take this poll and want a 460mm reach, it means something very different than 1000 people who are 6"2" and want 460mm reach.
Every other parameter polled is independent of model size, but reach is not.
If they had normalized for body size (perhaps asked "if you were 5'10", what reach would you want?") then the spectrum of answers would provide more accurate insight to reach preferences.

 @WaterBear: Because people sit on their bikes too. A 5'4" rider can't get a comfortable seated pedaling position on a size XL, even if the reach measurement was spot on.

 @rockhammer: You got me thinking rockhammer.

 @Inertiaman: I admit I didn't read the article preceding the poll. Is the purpose supposed to be some sort of data for us users' benefit? I took it at face value - what reach do I want. So I answered.

 As a guy with slightly odd proportions (long torso, short legs), I would love to see seat tube length and reach decoupled as sizing methods. E.g.., have medium-short, medium-medium, and medium-long sizes. Of course it would lead to too many frame sizes for manufacturers, but it would mostly mean the end of people having to size up to get comfortable reach at the expense of standover height.

 @toooldtodieyoung: I hear you, but that would mean 3x as many frame sizes potentially!

 @toooldtodieyoung: or make standovers a little lower and let long legged folk adjust their seatposts up a bit. Or just ditch seats altogether and everyone just hammers all the time.

 @toooldtodieyoung: long torso . Shorter legs here. 32 inseam, 6 foot 3.

Kona is doing it right. Nice low stand over. Long long reach.

 @toooldtodieyoung: MDE does this for a small premium. They call it Rider Tuned Geometry

 Sick but brilliant.

 @Sshredder: super sick

 Than Pinkbike will give it away in another Fantasy Contest.

 This. I'm a fatty and the recommended psi doesn't even come close. Tokens and spacers on each end.

 Cool dh fork? There are some company's that will do custom spring weights

 How about an XL Pole Evolink 150? Can be built up with 29" or 27.5" wheels, whichever you fancy. Or a Nicolai Geometron G16. Both have very slack head angles, yet very steep seat tube angles, great for going up and down

 Same issue, 6'5" 230lbs and not a fatty, just destroy bikes, break at least 4 a year, every year, carbon, ti, alu, doesn't matter. My next project is a slack 200mm dh frame, with platform shock and 180 fox 36. See how long that lasts.....or if it works out
Find this generation of long frames suit me, but essentially just building weaker frames due to these geometries.

 How about us the other way. 6'5" and lucky to be 170 wringing wet. XL frame but having to run low pressure just to make it work. Tall people problems.

 @yeti-monster:
230 lbs isn't that heavy. I'm 220lbs and I've had no trouble with destroying bikes

 @yeti-monster: 4 bikes a year!?!?! jesus man maybe its time to slow down and take it easy.....
Just kidding, keep sending it, that's what warranties are for

 @arrowheadrush: 2 in now for replacement a canyon and lynskey. Just used to it now, don't cry anymore.

 I've been riding for the last 30 years and finally found a bike that fits me like a glove (I'm not quite as tall as you @brassinne I am 6'4" 250lbs with really long arms). I went with a 2017 Kona Process 153DL. Would like for it to be about a pound or two ligther, but for the type of riding I prefer, it's beyond mint. Running 310lbs in the RS Deluxe w/Debonair can at 20% sag. Right about where it needs to be for me.

Everyones needs and riding style vary extensively I know, but for this lanky fella the Process does the trick!

Cheers!

 This is how I ended up buying a new Kona Operator in XL. At 6'4" (193cm) and 200lbs (91kg) I'm not exactly fat, but I do beat up stuff. Long reach, coil front and rear and not the slimmest girl at the ball. Perfect!

 @d3ftone:Guerilla Gravity as well. Similar geo but shorter CS than either of those

 Ride whatever Greg Minnar rides

 @brassinne G16 XXL or they may have something's bigger. The G19 is the DH frame. Get in contact with Mojo or Nicolai and they couldn't whip you up something custom. I could see you on a 175mm G16 with a burlier down tube.

 @d3ftone: Yep, Geometron, it’s a fantastic bike. great all rounder too: pedals great, steers amazingly, climbs beautifully, handles the singletrack.
I am 2 years in and on my second (650B) and appreciate it more each time I ride it.

 @mudfish: Sweet. Just had a frame show up last week. Hoping to get parts for it by the end of the month.

 Agreed, if I tried it would end up like the bike version of "the Homer"!

 ????

 yes!

 really good geo on those bikes

 I love mine, highly recommend. Interesting that the dream numbers are almost bang on.

 Giant with the Reign was the true trendsetter three years ago. Incredible bike ahead of its time.

 That is why DH bike will never go away. This is hard to explain to someone that rides an enduro bike that claims "this bike can do it all" but has never ridden a DH bike.

 Very much this... my ideal would be 29F/27.5R if my buddy, who's done that to every bike he owns, is any indication.

My Big Hit did not suck when it came to cornering.

 I have done this on several bikes and really liked it, still waiting for UCI to change the wheel size rules and see if the B9er shows up at WCDH

 @ghotinori: I'm actually thinking about it now for my Spartan... is there a rule for how much less travel you need to use to preserve the geometry?

 @SnowshoeRider4Life: Liteville does this successfully. Then more recently Intense did it and said they were innovative. Once UCI drops the ban on racing like that, most definitely most brands will do it. Silly enough in the poll you do get the 24-26 option, but not the 26-27.5 option nor the 27.5-29 option. What did fail was the Trek 69 with 26-29 (before 27.5 was a thing). I think for hucking off rooftops with 12" travel front and rear, 24-26 is still the way to go. Did PB say what the bike is for? Does it need to roll too?

 @groghunter: That's been my set up for 2 years now. Running slightly fatter rear (2.6 tyre on 35mm internal rim) with 2.5 tyre on 30mm internal rim up front. I've built around 15 custom builds in the past 18 years of mountain biking and love this set up.

 @SnowshoeRider4Life: Before 27+ came out I modified a Karate Monkey frame to run a 26 x 3.5 speedster tire in the back, installed a Salsa rigid fork with 20 mm through axle running a 29+ front wheel. It sings to me a bit when cornering really hard, but has only worn through the paint where the tire rubs frame. A professional frame builder told me he could help me with widening the rear stays if the frame was steel, but then said he didn't feel good about putting his name on it. He wanted to weld on a whole new rear triangle and charge me more than the frame cost in the first place. I have ridden that bike hard, and have no fear about it snapping in half. Also tried my new Spark+ with a 29+ front wheel, but it didn't hop around as well. Fun to experiment....

 29 front 24 rear that really rakes out the fork..........

 Foes Mixer style.

 29" front, 27.5 " back is ideal for gravity oriented riding in my opinion. Quick acceleration, wheel strength, clearance for extra travel in the back, with the roll over capability of a 29er in the front. The offset in the axle heights also improves roll over as the front wheel is less likely to get hung up. I hardly ever go OTB since I did this to my bike. I can seriously plow through gnar now and in some ways it actually feels more playful and 'poppy'.

 Yeah where was the 29f/275r or 29f/275+r sizing. Poll is rigged!

 @Xorrox:

Was thinking about doing this to my downhill bike... Does it affect the geo? Like bar height, bb height and head angle? Currently on 26ers

 @groghunter: Yes but if you change position of rear dropout position it works

 Did you notice how those reach measurements look like a bell curve? Sort of the way human heigh is distributed roughly normally (which looks like a bell curve)? It's as if the reach poll is really a human size poll in disguise.

Coincidentally that also explains why it's so hard to find a bike that fits tall people. Look at the longest reach on that poll. Kind of a small fraction of the overall number of responses, eh?

 @nouseforaname Madness! Even if I did Internet engineer a good bike I would still convince myself (and others) something was drastically wrong with it within a month.

 Yeah it wouldn't say "Specialized" on the down tube. @jclnv:

 @gonecoastal: Indeed. It'd probably look like the new Scott Genius to be honest.

 I could get behind one of those. Different length rear centres like Norco? @jclnv:

 @gonecoastal: In a perfect world dude... Take 15mm off the seat tube and add it to the reach and it'd be just about perfect. They're bonkers light too.

 I'm curious if a bike exists that matches all of the top votes - we'll see how it plays out. Or, as Buzzfeed would say, "You'll never believe what happens next..."

 @mikekazimer: right now the top numbers look like literally 90% of the trail/enduro bike list, so yes.

 @mikekazimer: I do hope you guys do an article or something out of it... would be interesting to compare it to the bike made based on the specs of that german forum...

 @mikekazimer: Transition Patrol!

 @mikekazimer: looks like its a patrol. Is it a coincidence that its bike of the year.

 @loulew: Trek Remedy comes pretty close to the current specs I think. Probably the most average bike of the year on paper.

 Yeah. They should have had some seriously crazy numbers just to see if people stray towards the middle of that set.

 I simply choose 26" because that's what I have. If I need to replace my frame, I don't want to change too many other (still good) components so ideally the new frame suits them too. Chances are most other visitors here use other wheelsizes now, so they choose what they currently have. Wheelsize doesn't matter that much, does it?

 @vinay: I personally like 26" wheels on my bike but I don't like the bike industry's policy of forced obsoletion by only adopting bikes with 650b or 700c wheels.

 @dea7hadder: I think I want to replace my frame (DMR Switchback) with something with a longer front end, reach and all that. Not just because that's all the rage, but simply because I got these Catalyst Pedals, now pedal more with my mid foot (which is the whole point of these pedals) hence have my weight so much to the front that my rear end flies out in every corner. Fun for sure but I'm just loosing too much speed. I've been looking around and the most sensible solution would probably be the BTR Ranger. As for a fully (currently have got a Cannondale Prophet), I could get a DMR Bolt Long (with a very good platform shock, probably) or again a BTR Pinner. Of course it would take a good while to save up for the BTR fully but it is not unlike any other typical high end full sus frame. My neighbour has an older Liteville 301 so obviously he's running 26" too but even the current model (101, not to be confused with the older 101 hardtail) could be set to run 26". The same goes for forks. Not only Suntour but also Fox, Manitou and Rockshox offer many of their forks in a 26" version. I'm not even sure whether Magura redesigned their forks for 27.5". I've got a Magura Thor that takes 26x2.6" tyres. Now they have TS8 forks with obviously different internals and the lowers are said to take 27.5x2.4" tyres. It takes a different axle (15x100 instead of 20x110 what I have) but that's the machining bit afterwards. Chances are the basic casting is similar to the old 26" version I have. That said, they could have changed to crown for a different offset. That's also the difference between the 26" and 27.5" Manitou forks. So if you want to be as cutting edge as Transition bikes is doing now, just get the 26" Manitou forks and mount a 27.5" wheel.

Anyway, yeah I probably prefer 26" wheels too. Not just because moving on to a different wheelsize would be a massive waste of good stuff I have in my garage. If big wheels are better at steamrolling the obstacles and 26" wheels are more agile and are better at generating speed from the ground (which for instance Fabian Barel explained once) I guess 26" is the way to go for me.

 @vinay: BTW do you think the Catalyst pedals would work well for dj and freeride where you are on and off the pedals in the air? That mid-foot placement sure is interesting, but I've been reading that the platform was very wide compared to other flats. My current flat pedals are little Fly BMX Ruben Alcantra Pedals which feel quite small even for street and stair gaps and the like.

 @dea7hadder: These pedals are very comfortable for pedaling and landing but they might feel too planted if you actually prefer to move your feet around. Hard to decide for someone else. On my BMX I run smaller plastic flats and I indeed don't see myself running these very large platforms. That said, I suppose it could work but you shouldn't wear 5.10s and use the full set of long pins. I've thinking of replacing some pins with flat head screws, should be just right. Or maybe grip tape. Also note that I run pedals from the first batch. They currenlty include longer screws and also more holes for screws. Of course you can always remove some.

 Bionicon. You press a button and lean forward and it reduces fork travel and pushes fluid into a chamber that increases the eye-to-eye of the shock, steepening the head angle. I can only find old videos on youtube, and it seems they haven't come out with a new bike since 2015. Their website sucks and doesn't show you in 30 seconds what they are all about. German.

 Same here. As long as there isn't enough space between the rear wheel and seat tube for small poodle, I'm OK.

 Very generally speaking: shorter = "more playful" and longer = more stable at speed

 Longer = More stable at speed especially over bumps, adding to the overall wheelbase. Also like a longer reach it will diminish the effect of shifting your weight front to back, meaning if you stand on a slightly wrong weighted position over the pedals it wont matter as much. You will need more force to manual (I personally do notice 5mm difference), akin to using a longer stem.

Shorter = the opposite, muh playfulness

 It's a bit more complex than that. We need to drop calling it 'chainstay' because it waters down the importance. The vast majority of a riders weight goes through the BB so if we think of the BB as the centre of everything geo wise, it then makes it easier to understand that the distance from the BB to the front axle (front centre) and BB to rear axle (rear centre) and the BB's relative location within the wheelbase has a huge influence on front/rear grip and front/rear spring rates.

 @daweil: Makes total sense now. I I have a Giant Anthem that I can whip around with zero effort, My transition is not as playful but is much more enjoyable bombing down in a straight line.

 ...or that's what works.

 Good catch - that's been corrected.

 Because the DH guys are out riding and the enduro guys are sitting in a office, on PB dreaming about riding!

 Same, except for slightly lower BB and shorter fork...- so Kona Honzo. Both are fantastic bikes, and those little differences are what make one better for one region vs. the other. The Nimble 9 has better paint!

 Because the average rider knows so much about the perfect chinstay length haha

 then relized is just about geo... I'll show myself out

 @ismasan: You forgot your coat! Have your people call our office in the AM and we'll make arrangements.

 lots of drag when pedaling, they are like riding in the mud or sand.

 @RimCyclery: Do you actually have experience with all of the current gearboxes available?

 @RimCyclery: Besides, if it were actually my "dream bike" that I was designing, I'd also have my "dream gearbox" in it as well.

 @RimCyclery: pretty much

 I haven't ridden the SB4.5, but the Tallboy 3 absolutely rips. It's a trail-eating 'sports car' of a bike that climbs and descends with equal prowess. Sure, it's not the best bike for huge DH runs... but the modern geo, big wheels, and overall chassis stiffness will get you though some pretty nasty stuff.

 False.

 Hey wheres my guarantee?

 Fake News

 Even if that was true, so what? Do YOU want to pay for all the MTB content that is laid out for you at the free PB Buffet?

 @dimitree
You thinking the wrong way. It's Pinkbike using a poll to see how marketing and tech article has affected our vision of ideal bike geometry.

 Yes! I still use it today.

 340mm

 337.5mm. Best of both worlds but also the worst.

 355mm so you can actually pedal other than fire roads. These low BB are getting stupidly low on trial bikes and forcing you to run shorter cranks if you do any sort of technical climbing or wish to get pedal strokes in on chunky DHs.

 @in2falling: my esprezzo ad hoc bb height is 340mm and I have to watch out riding my local trails: north shore, squamish, whistler, etc. I put a black spire half taco bash guard on it and it takes a lot of hits.

LOVE the bike though!

 It is a BTR Pinner you're looking at. Not necessarily insanely long, just low enough to be fun .