UCI Limits Some Transgender Athletes from Competing in International Races

Jul 14, 2023 at 6:38
by Ed Spratt  

Following a meeting of the Management Committee of the Union Cycliste Internationale (UCI) on July 5, the UCI made a decision to rewrite the rules on the participation of transgender athletes in international competitions. In its press release the UCI says: "From now on, female transgender athletes who have transitioned after (male) puberty will be prohibited from participating in women's events on the UCI International Calendar – in all categories - in the various disciplines."

For international Masters events a Male/Open category will be created where "any athlete who does not meet the conditions for participation in women's events will be admitted without restriction."

The new ruling comes into force from July 17, with the UCI leaving the door open for these to change as it says the rules "may change in the future as scientific knowledge evolves."

In the press release announcing its decision the UCI also adds that it will begin talks on co-financing research programmes studying "changes in the physical performance of highly-trained athletes undergoing transitional hormone treatment" with other members of the "international sporting movement."

bigquotesFirst of all, the UCI would like to reaffirm that cycling - as a competitive sport, leisure activity or means of transport - is open to everyone, including transgender people, whom we encourage like everyone else to take part in our sport.

I would also like to reaffirm that the UCI fully respects and supports the right of individuals to choose the sex that corresponds to their gender identity, whatever sex they were assigned at birth.

However, it has a duty to guarantee, above all, equal opportunities for all competitors in cycling competitions. It is this imperative that led the UCI to conclude that, given the current state of scientific knowledge does not guarantee such equality of opportunity between transgender female athletes and cisgender female participants, it was not possible, as a precautionary measure, to authorise the former to race in the female categories.
UCI President David Lappartient

bigquotesThe UCI Management Committee has taken note of the state of scientific knowledge, which does not confirm that at least two years of gender-affirming hormone therapy with a target plasma testosterone concentration of 2.5 nmol/L is sufficient to completely eliminate the benefits of testosterone during puberty in men. In addition, there is considerable inter-individual variability in response to gender-confirming hormone therapy, which makes it even more difficult to draw precise conclusions about the effects of such treatment.

Given the current state of scientific knowledge, it is also impossible to rule out the possibility that biomechanical factors such as the shape and arrangement of the bones in their limbs may constitute a lasting advantage for female transgender athletes.

Taking these findings into account, the UCI Management Committee considered the interests of transgender athletes in being able to take part in sporting competitions against those of athletes in the female category, which is considered a protected class. In this context, the UCI Management Committee concluded, considering the remaining scientific uncertainties, that it was necessary to take this measure to protect the female class and ensure equal opportunities.

Read the UCI's full press release here. The UCI has included a document written by its own Medical Director Xavier Bigard in its announcement.

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Author Info:
edspratt avatar

Member since Mar 16, 2017
2,851 articles

  • 527 45
 thank you
  • 205 29
 Kind of refreshing to see the UCI finally get something right lmao.
  • 38 60
flag wobblegoblin (Jul 14, 2023 at 16:26) (Below Threshold)
 Bummer, I was finally finding a reason to watch women’s sports.
  • 13 5
 Thank fuck
  • 61 6
 I understand this issue is emotionally charged but this ruling is based on science and common sense.
  • 124 10
 Biological males compete against biological males. Biological females compete biological females. Simple. End of discussion!
  • 18 5
 @NERyder: are those allowed in today’s culture?
  • 14 3
 @wobblegoblin: shouting seems to rule nowadays
  • 9 98
flag thebradjohns (Jul 14, 2023 at 22:25) (Below Threshold)
 @mrranderson: bigot
  • 7 4
 Why only some, why not all
  • 5 2
 Thank you British Cycling for stepping forward!
  • 2 2
 Ride Naked.
  • 2 2
 @jtnotsure: it is essentially a ban for all because early transition is severely restricted by multiple factors outside of the childs control. Its also getting banned at light speed in many countries around the world. Trans people are basically erased from society while everybody cheers. Even the headline of this article is misleading. Bit too weimaresque for me...
  • 1 0
 @KalkhoffKiller: so protection of womens rights in sports is the ERASE of trans people from society? How so?
  • 1 1
Children cannot make life changing decisions for themselves until they are deemed old enough to understand the ramifications of their decisions. This limitation is applied pretty evenly across most choices a child can make. Laws even limit the choices a parent can make for a child in some cases.

All these laws and provisions existed and were deemed fair and reasonable before early transition was even a consideration. Enforcement of existing laws, long judged as fair and reasonable, is not at all the same as trying “erasing trans people” anymore then traffic laws are trying to make you late for work.

All people in society live within restrictions that are deemed necessary and beneficial for society.

Not saying society and the majority are always right, but just because you disagree with a law or an accepted norm doesn’t mean that it is malicious or it exists to defeat you.
  • 346 42
 2023, the year common sense is making a comeback.
  • 27 111
flag d3ftone (Jul 14, 2023 at 10:59) (Below Threshold)
 mean reversion
  • 59 6
 @d3ftone: "mean" doesnt always = "not fair" or "wrong". In this case what you call "mean" is 100% the correct choice. Logic/Reason > emotional responses
  • 85 8
 Two words: headset routing
  • 38 1
 @noapathy: I believe the correct term is "cable tourism" Big Grin
  • 21 0
 @bman33: been looking at tradingview all day, so charts are at the fore. i think my comment was interpreted incorrectly lol
  • 3 2
 @d3ftone: All good and I just had an "Aha" moment as well. Carryon Big Grin
  • 3 1
 We still have a long way to go!
  • 7 2
 @d3ftone: at this moment, there are at least 76 people on Pinkbike who don’t know about statistical principles. Probably more; but it’s good to have some initial data on this subgroup.
  • 1 0
 @vonSpurling: “Statistical principles” or “statistics principles”? Asking for a friend.
  • 206 18
 This totally ruins the plans of all those people who changed their genders just so they'd have a better shot at that sweet, sweet UCI prize money. Now they're losing out on dozens of dollars!
  • 17 8
 Google Austin Killeps.
  • 33 3
 @Adamrideshisbike: then follow it up with Hannah Arensman and watch where Austin clearly tried to shove her off of her bike in a race
  • 25 63
flag ridedigrepeat (Jul 14, 2023 at 12:35) (Below Threshold)
 @Adamrideshisbike: google confirmation bias.

This is a rarity and unhelpful anecdotal evidence.
  • 18 3
 @ridedigrepeat: or recent and relevant. I
  • 26 0
 Ruins my gambling plans
  • 2 5
 @theredbike: comment points scored. Big Grin
  • 2 16
flag wobblegoblin (Jul 15, 2023 at 8:52) (Below Threshold)
 I’m torn, while it’s completely unfair for women to have to compete against someone who has the advantage of a body built by testosterone, it would also raise the expectations for the women to “get to” compete at a higher standard of competition. The girls who play on mixed soccer clubs in our town CRUSH the girls who play on girls only teams.
  • 9 2
 @wobblegoblin: Think your logic through a bit more. You are saying that woman are unable to compete against each other at a high level without the inclusion of male bodies.
  • 12 1
 @wobblegoblin: big difference between girls choosing to compete against boys vs being forced to compete against boys. Just like a kid might decide to play up an age group in a sport, whether it’s because they’re naturally gifted or maybe want to play with an older sibling… totally fine. But allowing a kid to play down an age group is not OK.
  • 1 1
 @Adamrideshisbike: they aren’t….lmao. What’s your point?

Talk to RA about it.
  • 1 1
 @Adamrideshisbike: I dont think that's what he's getting at. It's more the level of competition it's higher so they had to get more skilled. Then when playing against less skilled players they dominate. They still dont compete with the males on the same level.
  • 4 1
 @tsleep: yes but again, Those "less skilled players" are women. I personally think women can compete against each other without men their category. I'm not torn about this.
  • 2 3
 @Adamrideshisbike: higher competency will lead to higher entertainment value, and that’s the entire point of professional sports isn’t it?
  • 4 1
 @wobblegoblin: it feels like you’re still missing the point. Yes the level of competition may be raised, but it would no longer be competing against their peers and the deck is inherently stacked in favour of certain individuals it ruins the entire spirit of the competition. Not to mention the loss in earning potential that would inevitably be cast upon the rest of the field.
  • 2 1
 @captaindingus: he is wrong, their level isn't raised and he was probably making it up about the girls being better because they play in mixed teams. Those teams must be really poor as well. Smile

There is a reason top pro women's football teams always get smoked by half decent YOUTH men's teams. And why pro women's teams don't regularly train with and against good men's teams or join in much, even to train. And it's not because they don't want to get better are elevate their levels.

It doesn't work like that. They don't get better than their female counterparts who only play with women.
  • 1 3
 @WkDayWarrior: you are talking out of your ass.
  • 1 0
 @Adamrideshisbike: I'm not either. They have no business playing against women. I was trying to clarify what I think he meant. Even the women that got better by playing against men didn't really compete with men. It's a biological thing only. There's a reason you dont see females dominating men's sports after transition.
  • 156 29
 Of course, there's plenty of controversy to be had, but it seems like UCI has taken the obvious and most popular solution that was discussed in depth the last time this topic popped up on the main feed. Open categories for literally anyone, and a closed female category reserved for biologically & non-transgender female athletes. It gives all athletes a field to compete in while still protecting the integrity of the female-only category.

But alas, I am a straight white dude and have no real skin in the game, so it's silly for me to commentate on matters that only matter to female athletes and our transgender friends.
  • 344 58
 "But alas, I am a straight white dude and have no real skin in the game, so it's silly for me to commentate on matters that only matter to female athletes and our transgender friends."

this is one of the scourages of our time. don't do this. Everyone has a right to form and voice an opinion on any subject, at all times. period. Anyone that says someone else doesn't have a "right" to commentate on something, is the baddie.

Everyone has skin in the game, because you have to live in the society in which these issues weigh rather heavy.
  • 263 12
 We might be "straight white dudes", but we are also fathers to our daughters, brothers to our sisters, husbands to our wives, etc. It doesn't make any sense to me why we shouldn't/couldn't have a public opinion on this.
  • 70 82
flag mrbrighteyes (Jul 14, 2023 at 10:14) (Below Threshold)
 @Mtbdialed: I prefer to keep church and state separated. While I can agree on having an opinion, I would argue we should elevate the people's opinions who are actually affected by this. Myself, racing in the Male 19-29 category at some local race, does not get affected by whatever's happening in the female-only category.
  • 13 58
flag eckljkr (Jul 14, 2023 at 10:21) (Below Threshold)
 @eight-n-burly: Incorrect - if the female-only category is actually protected, then you will be competing against male athletes who identify as transgender in your male category, changing the game and giving you additional competitors you must beat. Everyone is affected.
  • 17 11
 @eckljkr: nice analysis poindexter
  • 20 2
 Today, on the internet: @tomsgr and @Mtbdialed make the same point, but the internet liked one way more than another. There's a lesson here, the internet is just not sure what it is.
  • 98 26
 @eight-n-burly: it doesn't.....currently....

First they came for the socialists, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a socialist.

Then they came for the trade unionists, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a trade unionist.

Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Jew.

Then they came for me—and there was no one left to speak for me.
  • 45 6
 @Mtbdialed: Right on i hate that people feel compelled to add that disclaimer in ther opinions. Whats their skin colour got to do with this particular discussion?
  • 18 6
 what has your skin colour got to do with any of this?
  • 8 43
flag Aeth (Jul 14, 2023 at 10:56) (Below Threshold)
 "But alas, I am a straight white dude and have no real skin in the game, so it's silly for me to commentate on matters that only matter to female athletes and our transgender friends." Yes, you have been silenced in all matters of serious import. I am sorry for the way you have been so rudely treated, I hope you can find it in you to persevere through this hardship
  • 15 14
 @Mtbdialed: that's typically used in defense of getting involved to prevent genocides not who can and can't participate in some silly sports category.
  • 11 19
flag mrbrighteyes (Jul 14, 2023 at 11:04) (Below Threshold)
 @Mtbdialed: My goodness. So dramatic.

@skiandmtbdirtbag: To paint a better visual.
  • 19 7
 @eight-n-burly: to paint a better visual? Come on man atleast be honest with yourself. Amazing how you didnt mention your height, or your age, or build, or hair colour. Whats you being straight got to do with it? trans isnt a sexuality.
  • 8 1
 @tomsgr: amen sir. Logic/Reason > emotional responses
  • 40 3
 @tomsgr: would double upvote if possible.
I also belong in the "straight, white dude" category, but also happen to be a husband and the father of a little girl. I'd be failing my duty towards them if I was to stand down based on my personal identity.
That's just a very convenient way some people found to silence others
  • 15 8
 @skiandmtbdirtbag: Methinks you're missing the point on purpose in an effort to be incredibly grating. Sorry I didn't use the term "privileged", I'll dumb it down for you next time I point out my societal status.

Attacking the person instead of the argument is as classic as it is weak.
  • 15 1
 @tomsgr: Exactly...I have 3 daughters and am fine with this ruling.

I have done many men's road races or crits with women in the fields. In the US at least, they let women "cat down" in men's fields (a cat2 woman can race a cat 3 mens race). By that rational, any trans rider is more than welcome to race in the mens field.
  • 13 9
 @eight-n-burly: nope, not being grating, just being intellectually honest. The fact that you’re white, or straight has nothing to do with you be able to have an opinion on this subject. I will help you out, you say these things to protect yourself from future criticism.
  • 1 12
flag Aeth (Jul 14, 2023 at 12:31) (Below Threshold)
 @eight-n-burly: You say your "societal status" to signal that you think you're the one really being victimized and silenced, not to paint a visual.
  • 2 0
 @Mtbdialed: in using this analogy in this context, who are you suggesting the 'they' is?
  • 10 13
 @Mtbdialed: everyone's got an opinion on everything. We need to go back to a time where people shut the f*ck up and kept it to themselves. Too many people think their opinion matters.
  • 3 1
 @eight-n-burly: Please point out where I attacked you? I have only mentioned your arguments.
  • 9 16
flag Cheddar420 (Jul 14, 2023 at 13:08) (Below Threshold)
 @Mtbdialed: are you seriously using this quote in favor of discrimination....
  • 17 1
 @Cheddar420: how is logic/biology "discrimination"? Just because you don't like the DaVinci sentiment "biological males who went through purity have zero business competing with biological females" and the fact that MTBdialed using aggressive analogy for the slow erosion of riots, that doesn't make it" discrimination". It appears you're dying on the wrong hill
  • 12 49
flag Murphius (Jul 14, 2023 at 13:35) (Below Threshold)
 Thanks for fighting the good fight.

I bet the whackadoodles on here that believe it’s their business to comment on matters that more directly impact women and our transgender friends are the same ones that feel they need to protect their “sisters, daughters, wives” by limiting what reproductive care is available to them.
  • 15 9
 @Murphius: "Reproductive care" LOL
  • 7 3
 @Murphius: what in the world are you talking about lmao
  • 5 18
flag Murphius (Jul 14, 2023 at 17:04) (Below Threshold)
 @freeridejerk888: abortions/birth control/etc. You must live under a rock if you’re actually in the US.
  • 10 7
 @Murphius: your comprehension of the written word and their meanings leaves something to be desired...
  • 3 0
 @Mtbdialed: because you smelt of cheese
  • 5 23
flag Murphius (Jul 14, 2023 at 18:14) (Below Threshold)
 @PACNW-MTB: haha, your unfamiliarity with the phrase “reproductive care” is representative of your lack of knowledge, don’t try to project this onto me. This has been a major topic in this country, with the whole Roe v Wade being overturned. I bet your next thought is “Roe v Wade, is he talking about ways to get across a river”. No I’m not, try throwing these “written words” into your favorite search engine and educating yourself.
  • 1 0
 @FaahkEet: it starts small man.
  • 3 8
flag Chief2slo (Jul 14, 2023 at 18:24) (Below Threshold)
 @skiandmtbdirtbag: it’s not a real gender, so if it’s not a sexuality what is it?
  • 18 18
 @Murphius: Careful, your indoctrination is showing.....
"reproductive care" Has ZERO to do with killing babies, fetus', or a "lump of cells", no matter how much the left wants us to think it does. You can spout whatever you want, you, nor the left, have the right to change the meaning of words.
  • 6 5
 @Murphius: this a mtb website not Facebook. Please leave that at the door. Thanks Smile
  • 5 17
flag Murphius (Jul 14, 2023 at 18:43) (Below Threshold)
 @freeridejerk888: sorry for taking the discussion somewhere you couldn’t follow, didn’t realize it needed to be left at the door.
  • 6 24
flag Murphius (Jul 14, 2023 at 18:44) (Below Threshold)
 @PACNW-MTB: please pray for me and those like me when you attend church on Sunday
  • 14 3
 @Murphius: this is about making racing fair not reproducing. Thanks
  • 6 4
 @Chief2slo: lol. Yeah, all those terrible events in the world that have come to be past, present and future where hundreds of thousands of lives were/will be taken start because two or three post-puberty m-f trans were allowed to compete in a women's category. Clearly this sports needs better brain protection.
  • 6 5
 @Murphius: Who mentioned anything about church? We were talking about the literal meaning of the words you typed and how they didn't match the context, then you assume I am going to church and pray for you? WHAT?
  • 2 3
 I think that everyone s opinion
does matter. Even if it's wrong @Cheddar420:
  • 2 2
 @Murphius: I am so stupid. That crossing the river thing never occurred to me.
  • 2 3
 @PACNW-MTB: I'm having an interesting time randomly checking posts. You mention killing babies and lumps of cells. Are you advocating for or against.
  • 4 3
 @singletrackjamaica:Read what I wrote. I advocated for neither. I LOL'd Murphius' reference to abortion as, "Reproductive Care" .
  • 7 3
 @mrranderson: Being a heterosexual white person doesn’t automatically make you a bad person, unless you are actually a bad person. Don’t let anyone tell you anything different. If your a good hearted person then you are good hearted person, no matter race, religion, sex. Accept others for what they are unless they are a*sholes then stand your ground. There are a lot of kinds of folks in the world today but ultimately it boils down to two types, you’re either a “dick” or you’re not. Dont be a dick.
  • 6 1
 And UCI made the right call here. Biological females deserve this ruling. Anything else would not be fair to the women who have worked hard to be where they are today. No disrespect to the trans community, but if you are a biological male who identifies as female, you have to realize you have a significant muscle advantage over biological females. All feelings aside, its just science on how bodies develop with muscles and all that. Everyone deserves a place in the bike community, but when it comes to competition there must be guidelines to ensure fairness to all involved. Another category to accommodate this makes the most sense.
  • 7 2
 First the UCI came for the 6kg bikes, and I did not speak out—
Because I could not afford carbon.

Then the UCI came for the Inner Bar Ends, and I did not speak out—
Because I did not have any bar ends.

Then the UCI came for the supertuck, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not that flexible.

Then the UCI came for me—and there was no one left to speak for me.
  • 1 3
 @eight-n-burly: having the ability to conceptualize gender is a privilege.
  • 3 2
 @Murphius: hahahahaha W comment
  • 3 4
 Ew. Did you really just caveat your opinion with “I’m a straight white male”?
  • 2 0
 @Mtbdialed: these issues really shouldn't weigh heavily in society though. The climate emergency should, the rise of xenophobic tribalism should, the likelihood of artificial general intelligence turning humans into fuel should. But trans people playing a few sports? Hell no. That topic only weighs heavily on the minds of people who are either hopelessly distracted ny social media algotlrithms or completely overwhelmed by the actual problems in which "everyone has skin in the game".

Trans people represent such a miniscule fraction of society and trans athletes a similarly miniscule proportion of the trans population, a fraction of a fraction. The reason such a small issue gets so much traction (check the # of comments) is because, from most people's perspectives, it feels like a deep threat to one of the first aspects of their identity and fighting to maintain your long-held beliefs seems relatively simple and straight forward compared to confronting the real, growing, complex threats to our existence as a species.

My suggestion - as a trans person who is continually baffled by the disproportiante air time non-trans people give to genitals - get on yer bike.

If you're really as worried about women as so many of you claim, focus on actual threats to their survival. A handful of trans athletes are not that.
  • 2 1
 @tall-timber: read above^. It’s about making racing fair not equality.
  • 102 13
 It will be good by UCI to retire the records taken from female athletes and give the winning to female athletes in any categories, with their respective recognitions...just saying.
  • 77 4
 I hope Hannah Arensman comes out of retirement. She was forced into it after being physically assaulted by Austin Killips during a cyclocross race and after repeatedly losing her rightful finishing positions.
  • 10 0
 @eckljkr: This was the first thing I thought of too
  • 65 0
 I remember when Rachel McKinnon "won" the UCI masters track cycling championships. The cis-female athlete she beat was pilloried in the media as a "transphobe" for speaking out about how she felt losing to a MtF athlete that clearly had a substantial advantage in a discipline determined by peak power - which we know males eclipse females on....

Not only was she not recognized as the World Champ in her sport, she was also made out to be some kind of a bigot for saying she didn't agree with MtF racers in track cycling. Which in hindsight, is obviously ridiculous if you know anything about track cycling....
  • 68 6
 This 20+ years in the making. Some very capable Canadian Pro Women fizzled into obscurity due to a transgender athlete being allowed to compete and then absolutely dominating the class. Today the UCI got it right. 20 years ago they did not. My heart goes out to those women and I hope today they feel somewhat vindicated. To little too late for them but at least Gracey can rest assured her rights as a female athlete are protected. lets take it one step further UCI. Points, medals, World Championships etc should all be stripped and passed on to the rightful owners. Apology letters to all athletes at any level should be distributed.
  • 6 62
flag deeeight (Jul 14, 2023 at 15:45) (Below Threshold)
 If they couldn't compete against a trans woman who was several years POST surgery, then they just weren't that good to begin with. I'm sorry but the quality of the Canadian (and American) women's DH fields generally sucked for a number of years because of the total disdain the largely men's run Canadian and American cycling associations simply didn't fund women cyclists particularly well. Its downright impossible to compete against european women who benefitted from significantly better funding and development work when they were juniors.Those Canadian women who couldn't compete against Michelle Dumeresque, would have fizzled even if Michelle hadn't been racing.
  • 11 1
 @deeeight: A male baby is born with 20-30% more neurons in the visual cortex. For life. It's very easy to google differences in male and female vision. And the male vision is superior for sports where judging distance, speed, and tracking moving objects is crucial... like DH.
  • 3 32
flag deeeight (Jul 14, 2023 at 16:34) (Below Threshold)
 @iamamodel: And yet, many men cannot compete against women. So by your logic should we then handicap the women further when men cannot beat them ?
  • 28 1
 @deeeight: Do you really need people to give you basic lessons in statistics? Naive or obtuse?
  • 8 0
 @deeeight: No. I'm saying that a person born male has an advantage in eyesight over a person born female.

I've always thought you were a person of great technical ability which is why I wrote what I did, you know, science.
  • 3 0
 "some very capable Canadian Pro Women fizzled into obscurity due to a transgender athlete being allowed to compete and then absolutely dominating the class."

Do you have more information on this?
  • 8 0
 @deeeight:wow dude, this statement is a slap in the face to the woman who were racing at that time. Classless.
  • 8 0
 @deeeight: seriously have you looked at the world cup results???? Top female at Val de sole would have placed 30th in the male class.
  • 1 0
 @deeeight: they can’t? Have a gander at race times my guy!
  • 73 20
 This is a fantastic development for women's sports - they have been under threat for far too long. Shewon.org (an incomplete list) documents hundreds of examples of women losing their rightful medals, trophies, qualifications, and other sporting accomplishments, with cycling disciplines seeing some of the worst cheating. This new solution (converting the male category to male/open) is the fairest for all since no one is denied the right to fair competition. A "third category" isn't a good idea - it's "othering," would be too small for meaningful competition, and it also gives male athletes two categories to win prizes while women get just one. An open category and a protected women's category are the way to go. Thank you for listening to science and fairness, UCI.
  • 37 49
flag makudad (Jul 14, 2023 at 12:44) (Below Threshold)
 I understand talking about this in terms of fairness - I think it's oversimplifying a complex issue, but I get it. Talking about 'cheating' however really seems misguided and unnecessarily accusatory to me. It suggests that trans folks are choosing a gender identity specifically because they believe it will confer an advantage in their sport, and that's just not true.
  • 23 27
flag dave119 (Jul 14, 2023 at 12:48) (Below Threshold)
 @makudad: it is true. End of story.
  • 18 6
 @makudad: please explain this complex issue? Because I see it as wrong and any organization that allows it is cheating the biological female athletes.
  • 14 19
flag deeeight (Jul 14, 2023 at 15:50) (Below Threshold)
 And yet, if this was ACTUALLY about benefitting women athletes...why aren't they getting equal pay or sponsorships ? Why haven't they benefitted from equal development dollars when juniors for coaches and training ? Why is it the only time the media or governing bodies pays attention to womens rights is when they're using them as a scapegoat for another issue ?
  • 25 6
 @deeeight: everyone's already been through this tumorous times. In this particular report, women don't sell as many bikes/components/ apparel as women. I'm sure I'll get slaughtered for this, but there's endless studies to prove the point. Your Google skills are probably just as good as everybody else is out here. There ARE definitely a few exceptions such as tennis and a few other sports. However, women's impact isn't as large in this particular community....
I think everyone here is pro women and pro women getting more and more of the market share, but it must be earned just like them instead. Bill Burr has a couple of good comedy sketches about this regarding the WNBA..

I'll wait my downwards.
  • 10 31
flag deeeight (Jul 14, 2023 at 16:02) (Below Threshold)
 @bman33: Did it never occur to you, that if the women had better training and more funding and better press coverage then that wouldn't be the case ? You hand the women a stacked deck, you control how they can bet, and you expect them to win like the men ? Really ? That's how you think it should be?
  • 17 1
 I think the word 'cheating' is going too far. I think 'unfair' is more accurate.
  • 10 8
 @deeeight: again, endless articles written about this. In the relatively young sport of mountain biking, men built up their value and worth from scratch. This is not an anti-woman post. It's a logic and reason post. We see the bar moving, but had to be earned. There will be a watershed movement at a certain level/ return of investments where woman gets the same investment money and earns their pie. It's not one pie, it's creating larger and larger pie.
  • 10 25
flag deeeight (Jul 14, 2023 at 16:38) (Below Threshold)
 @bman33: 49 years old and you've never heard of Jacquie Phelan, Juli Furtado, Elladee Brown, Cindy Devine, CIndy Whitehead, Leigh Donovan, Sara Ballantyne, Anne Caroline Chausson, Missy Giove, Allison Sydor, etc. I could go on but you probably still won't understand. There will NEVER be a watershed moment enough to satisfy people like you, or make up for all the lost time of the past three decades of UCI governed MTB racing.
  • 16 1
 @deeeight: heard of almost all of them Your point? They don't move the needle as much as men in most sports ( not all). Endless studies, articles, marketing data etc to prove it.

You are welcome to sponsor an all all female team and put as much & $$ as you feel is sufficient. Pretty negative attitude there. I stand by my posts.

Rubber side down man
  • 10 1
 @deeeight: God dude, this has been argued so many times. just stop.
  • 3 1
 @dave119: gr8 argument you've changed my mind thanks so much
  • 5 1
You have a long history here; and you are want to offer your deep and broad understanding and experience of of the past 30 years of professional and amateur racing as gravitas to add to your arguments.

I feel though that you, and the wider community here, would benefit if could take on board evidence from outside your own personal experience when contributing, adding to the gravitas that your comments have attributed to them..

Here's one report that I read a while back that I recommend you take a look at; it offers a perspective on the extent to which funding and support affect elite female athletes compared to male athletes at various levels and age groups.

If you could be so good as to give me your response to its conclusions, I would be grateful.

  • 5 20
flag singletrackjamaica (Jul 14, 2023 at 22:06) (Below Threshold)
 @bman33: women have been shut out of sports for so long. They should be receiving more money and more recognition. Men aren't better at sport, they just got a head start.
  • 3 0
 @singletrackjamaica: Try this and see if it gives you an alternative perspective worth thinking about.

It's long and heavy on the science in places, however, I recommend pages 85 to 93.

  • 3 2
 @singletrackjamaica: feel free to start a women's team. ANY team ANY sprot and pay any astronomical amount you can and see what your return on investment is. Women in sports is great, but with a few exceptions, they just don't 'move the meter' as much as men as far as viewership, selling products/services. That isn't an opinion, it's been proven time and again.
  • 1 0
 @rivercitycycles: here's an article from the Canadian Center for Ethics in Sport. The first sentence reads, "The inclusion of transgender people in sport is relatively new and has proven to be complex."
It sounds like you already have your mind made up but if you're genuinely curious, there's lots of worthwhile reading you could check out to dig into the complexity a bit more.
  • 1 0
 @iamamodel: yes! this is all I was trying to say above. People seem to have appreciated your wording more than mine haha. I guess I'm too verbose.
  • 1 1
 @JapanDave: this paper was definitely written with a negative bias toward trans females and afab females with "dsd" refering to them repeatedly as "males with DSD" the author even argues that sexual discrimination in sport is a good thing.
  • 4 0
 @singletrackjamaica: I agree women athletes deserve more recognition and money...but did you not go to middle school gym class? Men aren't faster and stronger because they "got a head start", they're faster and stronger because life is unfair.
  • 42 2
 (Scene opens, Camera slowly pans across conference table. See manager Brian at one end handing out papers to editors, sat around table sipping coffee, chatting...)
Brian: Okay everyone, good work last week. Lets keep that same energy going here as we move into our next Sprint. Same as last week, Levy will continue his quest in searching for Extraterrestrial Life. Ed, I am going to have you take a couple of his topics to write for this one.. (Hands Paper to Ed Spratt)
Ed: Fuuuuuuuuuuuu...
  • 13 4
 Then they all go for a Bud
  • 8 2
 @blacksheep: light bud
  • 2 2
 Should be top comment
  • 51 8
  • 40 6
 I don't think either "side" on this issue should be getting too angry on this. Definitely stayed very PR-friendly on the release while also maintaining fair competition. Stuck to the science and wasn't rude about it. At the end of the day when you have women's careers and life goals on the lines you must take into consideration fairness of sport.
  • 38 23
 You know the comment "stuck to the science" would upset activists that truly believe there is no physical advantage of males vs females. A certain political party that "follows the science" has a conundrum on their hands I'd guess.
  • 12 0
 @pistol2ne: The Union Cycliste International has political parties?
  • 14 1
 @pistol2ne: Don't paint with such a broad brush. The "there's no physical difference" people are a very small minority of that certain party
  • 13 2
 Kaitlin Jenner, who obviously understand this at a deep level, said and I quote "sports is about fairness, not equity" which I think sums it up well.....

That was brought up in a great interview between KJ and Lance about this very subject...good listen on YT.
  • 10 2
 @RadBartTaylor: 100% this! I saw some random post/blog mentioning the same thing about Caitlin and being well qualified. Somebody asked. "How is he qualified? " Caitlin is most likely THE most qualified person on the planet at this point to have an opinion on both sides on this topic. Big Grin
  • 6 1
 @pistol2ne: Scientists don’t buy into politics. Politicians and people that always mention politics, make it political.
  • 10 2
 @dualsuspensiondave: Scientists "shouldn't" buy into politics....not like it doesn't happen though.
  • 13 2
 @rivercitycycles: No it's not. Scientists almost certainly have the same range of political biases as the general population. Being a scientist doesn't magically make you free from ideological bias.
  • 2 2
 @jeremy3220: I don't think it's that small a minority. I think the average liberal (I include myself last year) thinks medical transition erases all the advantages conferred by male puberty and therefore there are no *relevant* physical differences if, say, a trans woman athlete has testosterone levels in the female range. I don't think this is a fringe opinion, it just happens to be based on wishful thinking, not research. The "small minority" thinks biological sex is a repressive social construct (but binary gender identity somehow isn't?) and you should be allowed to self-identify into whatever sports class you want at any time. (One wonders if all these people graduated from sex-segregated prep schools and were spared from participation in the eight-year medical experiment that was coed middle and high school gym class...)
  • 1 0
 @WishIWazFaster: You’re clearly not a scientist. Real scientists do not include politics into anything professional. Politicians have convinced you of that falsehood to demonize scientists. You’re buying into propaganda.
  • 2 0
 @RadBartTaylor: Real scientists do not at all period. Politicians claim that to demonize scientists. Just so happens that one current political group in the U.S. believes in science, and the other doesn’t. That’s happened within the last 10 years with previous administrations.
  • 58 31
 Putting diesel gas in your gas tank does not make your car a diesel.
  • 17 17
 Hate speech!
  • 15 0
 Point of order, there is no such thing as "diesel gas". There's diesel fuel, also known as just "diesel", and there's gasoline, also known as gas or petrol.
  • 6 6
 @barp: Oooh, can I get in on the pedantry? "Petrol" is a stupid name for just gasoline, as it is derived from "Petroleum" which is what gasoline, diesel, kerosene and other fuels are made out of. They are all Petroleum Fuels.
I love a good pedantic argument. Almost as much as a Bun Fight.
  • 11 0
 The Kiwi was making a joke. Kiwis are the only people nicer than Canadians.
  • 4 0
 @ShawMac: Then you'll hate to learn that the Germans use the same word for petroleum benzine and gasoline ("Benzin").
  • 2 0
 @barp: this is the only comment that matters in this entire thread
  • 2 0
 @barp: personally I am relieved. I thought they were all running their cars on straight cancer over there.
  • 32 6
 about time the UCI paid attention to what the female athletes want.
  • 29 3
 When facts matter more than feelings
  • 29 6
 One way we will look back at that crazy time when people were prepared to argue that a physical impossibility was somehow real. We will laugh and wonder how so many fools were prepared to die on a hill over it.
  • 13 0
 People don't look back. In 10 years, no one will admit to being on the other side.
  • 28 3
 Logical decision. Just wish the NCAA would do the same. The whole thing is ridiculous.
  • 27 4
 Another win for women's sports.
  • 27 5
 A good day for female althletes. About time.
  • 22 2
 Well done UCI. This shit is obvious. Thankfully common sense has prevailed.
  • 22 2
 Woman. Woah, man. Woaoaoaoh, man.
  • 6 1
 they meet once a year, at an undisclosed location known only as.....the meadow!
  • 13 1
 Harriet, oh Harriet, hard hearted harbinger....of haggis.
  • 3 1
 She was a thief. You gotta belief.
  • 19 3
 Retroactive? Stolen opportunities. Destruction of women’s sporting careers. Lost sponsorships. Theft of prize dollars. Reimbursement for training and travel costs. Class action lawsuit necessary? Harm has already been done. Justice has not been served.
  • 25 7
 Common sense making a comeback
  • 21 4
 How about changing "some" to all transgenders?
  • 12 0
 The headline says “some” transgender athletes because the UCI press release says: "female transgender athletes who have transitioned after (male) puberty will be prohibited from participating in women's events…" That implies that male transgender athletes (females who have transitioned to male) can still compete in the men’s events.
  • 3 0
 Exactly, NO criteria, period!
  • 14 1
 Inevitable really. Just a few years ago when someone would say "there's no data that transgender women have an unfair advantage" what they really meant was that there was hardly any data on the matter. While people may have disagreed based on some "common sense" or "logic" IOC and UCI and every other sports governing body statement that I read was honest and took into full account whatever studies were available and looked forward to further research on the matter. Starting 1-2 years ago those studies started to come in and it was clear that while physical appearance changes there is a retained strength advantage. Large committees move slowly. No conspiracies, just a bunch of people who agreed to make decisions based on the research available and were waiting for it to come in.
  • 3 1
 IOC allows trans athletes, so not sure what statement from them you were reading to come to that conclusion.
  • 22 6
 Common sense won out. Glad to see it.
  • 15 4
 Great move! Stricter rules should make it fairer and clear for all athletes involved and affected. The previous ruling was a shitshow for both trans-females who followed all the rules and still got tons of hate, and all female athletes who got unfair competition. I have a close friend who was born between genders so I know the big struggles and have full support for anyone in a similar situation. Changing gender is a huge personal move - accepting to never compete on the highest professional level in sports when changing from male to female is unfortunately the price to pay. Just continue battling with men and know that you would have scored way higher without the hormone treatment.
  • 4 3
 Interesting, but I'm gonna bet all my money they are either XX female (with odd anatomy) or XY male (with odd anatomy).
Genetically speaking there is no 'between genders' just some strange anatomy. But your muscles all know they are either XX or XY.
And yes, I'm aware of things like complete androgen insensitivity syndrome, wherein a woman's like Jamie Lee Curtis is actually genetically XY, but a perfectly formed and developed woman. But that's an incredibly rare situation and as she was born a woman, developed as a woman, only a genetic test can tell she is XY, we'll for all sport organizations she IS a woman and her body knows it's a woman's body as she is completely insensitive to androgens in her body. Not transgender, just a woman with a weird genetic test result.

Not sure how anyone can pretend anything else.
And I don't mean to be rude regarding your friend, and I'm going to assume that for the people that are some forms of different body developmentally that life can be hard. But life is either male, or female when it comes to humans, no matter your wishes.
  • 15 0
 Can't wait for USAC's response.
  • 9 0
 They have already put out a press release saying they are revising their guidelines to follow the UCI's ruling.
  • 1 0
Yeah, I knew they would have to for U23 and elite because they score UCI points at Nationals. The category racing is probably going to still be open game.
  • 15 3
 This will be a healthy and normal comment section.
  • 22 6
 surpisingly i havnt seen a single comment that disagrees with this ruling. thank god
  • 12 37
flag vinay (Jul 14, 2023 at 11:19) (Below Threshold)
 @skiandmtbdirtbag: Don't worry, I'll solve that. Sorry for your god.
  • 22 4
 @vinay: typical redditor cringelord comment
  • 3 12
flag vinay (Jul 14, 2023 at 12:37) (Below Threshold)
 @wncgravity: Uhh, what's that?
@skiandmtbdirtbag : All good.
  • 16 3
  • 8 2
 Prob a tough decision to take for some folks. But at least UCI cited scientific papers to support their decision. And it sounds like if therapies improve in the future or there are quantifiable biomarkers that levels the field, they would re-examine their position.
  • 21 12
 As if science was really needed though.
  • 9 25
flag deeeight (Jul 14, 2023 at 15:36) (Below Threshold)
 They cited science dismissed by the IOC, which has for twenty years allowed transgendered athletes. It also ignores CIS gender females who have unusual natural hormone levels which give them a competitive advantage. Retired US Woman's DH champion Amanda Batty has pointed out she has a higher bone density and muscle index than most men, and nobody has ever made her prove she's not trans, or demanded an evaluation of her hormone levels to compare against some standard that they would hold transgendered women to. At one of the US Nationals, Amanda, with a broken back, posted a winning time not only ahead of all the other women, but most of the men also.
  • 9 2
 @deeeight: because... She's not trans. Simple as that
  • 1 0
 @deeeight: Pro men or male categories in general?
  • 11 22
flag deeeight (Jul 14, 2023 at 16:05) (Below Threshold)
 @bman33: Yes, but that's the point. If she can be faster than men, shouldn't she be under the same sort of microsope you'd put transgender women under ? This UCI decision is pure discrimination and everyone fine with it is showing their true colors that they're okay with discriminating against people.
  • 7 4
 @deeeight: You're going off the rails and being absolute. Everyone sees you're just trying to be come. Baddest. Logic and reason is absolutely in no way equal to transphobic or transphobia. You know going well. It's not. You're speaking in an absolutes and it's transparent
  • 3 15
flag deeeight (Jul 14, 2023 at 16:32) (Below Threshold)
 @adamdigby: Pro men. The state of the US DH cycling community has been a shambles over the past twenty years. You can find the results online for several past years. In the 2021 Nationals, Pro woman Kailey Skelton's winning time of 4:05.89 was faster than a third of the pro men's race field.
  • 2 2
 @deeeight: I do agree US DH is a mess. However, did she get coverage and sell products? It's not about feelings, it about moving products or services. Marketing 101
  • 7 0
 @deeeight: and the under 15s men winner would have smoked her, as would the winner of the 45-49 mens category, heck even the bastions of athletic medicocrity that are Cat 1 25-29 and 30-34 men beat her.
  • 8 0
 @deeeight: Looked it up for myself. She would’ve placed 55th in Male Pro. You’re looking at male Cat 1 19-24 “Pro Track”.
  • 19 0
 @deeeight: you understand your statement about Kailey Skelton is literally proving people's point? The absolute best US woman in 2021 would have been 55/75 for pro men?? Of course top women will always be able to beat some of the men, they are the best in their class. But when a mediocre, mid pack man can jump to the top of a pro women's field automatically....that becomes the problem. Look at Kate weatherly's results.
  • 2 7
flag vinay (Jul 14, 2023 at 22:55) (Below Threshold)
 @wilsonians: Could you point me at her race results when competing in mens category (which I think is what you're aiming at) before she started taking testosterone-blockers?
  • 4 0
 @vinay: her results have been combined on roots and rain and show everything prior to her transition as well as current.
  • 1 0
 @vinay: prior to starting hormones, Kate weatherly typically placed mid pack. Never placed better than 8th.

I posted this a couple days ago, but it got deleted. I assume it was deleted because I used Kate’s birth name and someone accused me of “deadnaming,“ but in the context it was necessary as Kate’s results prior to transitioning are listed under the name used at the date the race occurred… the birth name which we are apparently not allowed to utter.
  • 1 0
 @boopiejones: additionally, she placed midpack to top 1/3 in men's 'open', not even men's elite.
  • 1 0
 @boopiejones: im surprised it’s not deleted. When it was discussed reasonably for EWS Tas 2023 it was delete, delete, delete!!
  • 14 4
 Duhhhhhh. Wouldn't make sense any other way
  • 11 1
 Where is the Status 160 review?
  • 2 0
 Which one? The og review was hilarious reading!
  • 5 0
 @Baller7756, that'll go up on Monday morning.
  • 17 7
  • 9 0
 Is this not what Belgian Waffle Ride just did?
  • 21 14
 Based on these rules, if you are a boy who decides to start chemically castrating yourself prior to puberty, you can still complete as a female?
  • 13 17
flag FatTonyNJ (Jul 14, 2023 at 12:59) (Below Threshold)
 Nice use of neutral, scientific language there, mate.
  • 1 0
 Yeah and considering the pace of the juniors this year.. watch out!
  • 6 1
 @FatTonyNJ: I thought they said it right
  • 1 0
 Would make sense to allow that, but idk how the UCI would rule in that case.
  • 6 1
 My issue with this ruling is that it focuses specifically on Elites in the UCI calendar and offers little-to-no guidance for cycling national bodies on amateur sanctioned events. The UCI needed to be steadfast in recommending a flat application so all national bodies could apply a uniform protection across all female divisions. Elites may have cash prizes and careers, but the true causation that will effect us as an everyday society is not being addressed. As of right now, there's still no guidance watching our daughters in high school leagues get discouraged knowing they'll never be as good as a trans student, our wives who spent two years training for a local grand fondo only to miss a podium by one place, etc. Logically, if it's not fair for Elites, it should not be fair for all.
  • 4 2
 I agree. And I honestly think it’s LESS fair for local/amateur female races, as there are zero rules for men competing in those. I’m sure a guy could simply register as female, show up to race, and there is nothing the race organizers could do other than let him race against girls. Even at the highschool varsity level, a boy can simply say “I’m a girl today” and they must allow him to race against girls (in California, at least).
  • 7 0
 Isn't there currently a transgender cyclist racing women's world tour level? Will she have to quit?
  • 1 0
 Not sure if there is someone on a world tour team or not. Technically speaking, no she would not have to quit. But she would not be able to partake in any UCI International events. She could still race at national or local level events that her team takes part in unless those national events have similar rulings. I would expect though that in relatively short order the team would not renew a contract because it does not make much sense to have a rider that is not allowed to race at most of their races.
  • 9 1
 a move in the right direction
  • 8 3
 Very glad to see, did a presentation in my Sports Development class on why transgender athletes should be banned last year. Happy to finally see some organisations take a stand against this issue.
  • 8 1
 great news. finally some rational thinking.
  • 8 3
 Imagine actually going through downvoting the people who are with this statement from the UCI.

Like why are you even here?

Go to a pride march or something.
  • 6 1
 I guess some people see it differently.It's ok that they do. They're probably quite nice and you may even know some without realising it. We had a prime minister who asked us to"be kind to each other even when we had vastly different views".Perhaps she had something.......
  • 4 1
 There is a retired US woman pro racer who claims this is protecting "mediocre women racers".. But to me it is more about preventing mediocre men from becoming a top "woman " racer. In the DH world, a man just outside the top 30 would be a legitimate podium contender... Is that fair for the women?
  • 4 1
 I can’t believe in 2023 the world is that worried about the inclusion and feelings of 0.001% of population.
In the meanwhile people die with hunger, there are poverty increase even in the richest countries… the gap increase…
and War still happening
For me this issue is a cover up to something bigger…
We are Only 80 years after the 2 world war, unfortunately I don’t think Humans are that nice and that worried about each others feelings… The fight for power still prevails!
  • 2 0
 Stop your conspiracies. Top elites are only a tiny proportion of total athletes and participants. There are only a few spots at the top, when these spots reserved for protected women’s elites are taken by biological males who identify as women the biological women miss out. Its an important issue about fairness in sports and about the preservation of women’s sports overall
  • 10 3
 About time
  • 9 4
 In other news a motorcyclist who identifies as a road cyclist just won the Tour de France.
  • 2 2
 They are called ebikes nowadays silly.
  • 2 0
 This was the right evidence based decision. Not sure what they are going to do to verify whether someone went through male puberty or not though. Too bad that so many people are to emotional about the topic to look at it rationally though.
  • 3 1
 Wasn’t there some drama in the women’s dh a few years ago revolving around a trans rider?? I think I remember Tony Seagrave complaining about his daughter losing to a chick that was born a male.
  • 3 0
 This comment might get deleted as when I mentioned the NZ trans athlete competing in women’s DH it was deleted previously. There is still controversy now put to rest by the UCI. Thank you for maintaining women’s sport as a protected category.
  • 1 0
 I'm curious about trans people, that experienced the puberty of their chosen gender. There should be no real competitive difference, because those people went through puberty like any other person without any alterations afterwards.
  • 1 0
 Well that’s not possible if you’re trans..
  • 1 0
 I’m amazed Pinkbike hasn’t deleted almost all
of these comments. Any hints of transgender athletes in élite competition previously would have a comment deleted immediately in the past. Bravo Pinkbike, like the UCI you allow reason to prevail
  • 8 4
 I identify as world champion.
  • 6 1
 Uncommon UCI W. Good job
  • 6 1
 Rare W UCI
  • 10 7
 after i read the Article I knew exactly what to expect in the comments, 98% americans. i was not wrong.
  • 2 1
 Americans when arguing about transgender issues :"muh muh but what about SCIENCE!!!"

Americans when arguing about gun control, religion, environmental topics: "mumuh, but what about FrEeDoM!!!!"
  • 8 4
  • 5 1
  • 3 4
 "I would also like to reaffirm that the UCI fully respects and supports the right of individuals to choose the sex that corresponds to their gender identity, whatever sex they were assigned at birth."

Can anyone tell me what the heck this means?
  • 1 5
flag BarryWalstead (Jul 14, 2023 at 23:05) (Below Threshold)
 It's interesting as I was watching an old 'News Radio' episode recently and one of the characters said something about gender being different than sexy, and they then had a female character very clearly state that 'sex and gender are the same thing' and it was such a breath of fresh air in today's world. Seems it's a crazy new idea that either is a choice.
  • 3 2
 They're trying to act like sex and gender aren't interconnected. It's just a load of crap
  • 1 1
 Some?? It should be all. Everyone knows there is a competitive advantage with men competing in women's events. However, at least the pendulum is swinging in right direction for real women. Common sense.
  • 6 3
 phew.... Nice Play UCI
  • 12 10
 If I identify as a dog what category do I race in
  • 1 0
 Big dog or dirty dog?
  • 4 1
 Seems fair to me
  • 3 5
 "may change in the future as scientific knowledge evolves"

There has ever only been 2 genders.. biological male and biological female... I can't see this changing any time soon and I think science needs to start realising this.
  • 8 10

but this quote is non sens
"I would also like to reaffirm that the UCI fully respects and supports the right of individuals to choose the sex that corresponds to their gender identity, whatever sex they were assigned at birth"

Sex is gender. Gender is not a social construct
A man has balls and a penis
A women has boobs, a uterus and a vagina

Biological fact
  • 3 2
 Good to see that common sense is finally prevailing!
  • 3 3
 Bad news for the transistion teams.
  • 3 2
 The right choice.
  • 3 2
 common sense
  • 3 2
 Well done
  • 2 2
 Well done UCI !!! Makes total sens.
  • 2 2
 Them competing, it is never going to work.
  • 4 6
 Everyone should get a chance to race. Chicks with dicks or dudes with tits, let's just pedal.
  • 1 1
  • 2 2
  • 3 4
 Science evolves..oh ok
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