First Look: YT's 2020 Lineup

 Yup, my stock e*thirteen cassette failed on one of my first rides with my Jeffsy, and I had to buy a surprisingly expensive GX cassette then and there to keep riding. Sometimes I wonder if companies skip the whole product testing thing. Also, my stock e*thirteen tires had a ton of rolling resistance so I traded those for Schwalbes.

 Never had an E*Thirteen product not fail. The stuffs made from cheese.

 @cedrico: I call BS. Me and my buddies all ride the 11 speed e13 cassettes and they have been awesome for 2 years now. No issues.That's not to say some cassettes don't have issues, but to say product testing was skipped is lame. If you do a google search you can see a ton of Sram GX cassettes issues too, doesn't mean they all suck by any stretch...As for tires that's just preference. Tons of people ride Assegai's and those are some of the slowest rolling tires out there.

 @Marky771: I followed your suggestion and googled "sram gx cassette issues" and didn't find anything. Google "e*thirteen cassette issues" and it's a whole different story. I didn't say e*thirteen skipped product testing; what I said was hyperbole. However, I will say without hesitation that I don't think they did enough product testing.

 Why do you think their bikes cost so little for having pretty good suspension.

 I’ve had both GX Eagle and the 11 speed E thirteen cassette, both were wonky With issues , the E thirteen was the more bearable of the 2.

 Seems like a lot of conjecture really. I've broken an i9 carbon wheel after five months, had a fox X2 need multiple warranty rebuilds over a three month period, an Eagle drivetrain that could never be properly adjusted without shifting issues, and of course the classic mushy reverb.. But overall had really good experiences with E*thirteen stuff over the years. Have a set of their wheels on my Megatower at the moment that have been flawless so far. My point it certainly not to bash any of these companies, they all make some awesome stuff and I have nothing against them, but simply to point out that you can have good or bad luck with any brand. There are a lot of variables.

 The last time I was supporting my lbs, I was replacing the stock parts on my bike with Ethirteen components. I have been very happy with my Ethirteen wheels, cassette, and chain guide.

 I really don't get all the hate on E*thirteen... Yea, they have had issues with some of their products, but what component manufacturer hasn't? Yea SRAM's cassettes don't have many issues but they've put out PLENTY of components riddled with issues. Guide brakes, anything produced under the brand Avid, the older Reverb... Myself and a lot of friends are running their new Lg1r line and it's absolutely bombproof. And if you ever need anything their customer service is great. No one is perfect, but E*thirteen has and is continuing to improve.

 @blkmrktrider156: I agree, I've had good luck with E13 to date. My wife has a Jeffsy with E13 everywhere and everything is going good so far, granted it's a '19 so she doesn't have a ton of miles on it. I even strongly considered an E13 cassette when I was looking at upgrading a GX 11 spd cassette.

 I still have those solid polycarbonate bashguards. I don't see how it could ever break. Apparently some of you managed to do so?

 They are doing their part for the survival of your LBS.

 @cedrico: E13 does not skip product testing. Ive been running full e13 spec on all my bikes for years and ive never broken anything.. If you shift proper, take care of your stuff, and know that EVERYTHING has a breaking point, you’ll be good to go!

 @Marky771: you must be a glass cranker if you haven't had a problem with two years on that cassette.

 I have had no issues with any of my EThirteen components over the last 3 years..

 @DannyJB:

Haha!! Like Oddysey on BMX bikes back in the day......

 @vinay: love your sarcasm hahaha. Have to admit that almost answered you with all the rage that trying to find all the damn little lollypop-like pieces around the rockgarden gives you!!!

 @cedrico: you're joking right? Sram is THE definition of zero product testing. There are tons of reports of issues with GX eagle cassettes and derailleurs not to mention how absurdly expensive they are. It's been well known for years that Srams R&D department is the consumer and when complaints come in the silently issue changes and product updates without acknowledging there was ever anything wrong.

 @geeKayy: I hate to admit this, but I am still running my 2015 e13 REAR! wheel. Since my 2015 Capra is non-boost, I didn't want to shell out money on a 142 to match my front (boost) EX511. Gone through 3 derailleurs and 4 cassettes (all SRAM 10-42) I have beat the sh1t out of it been told i should replace it 2 years ago when my chain went behind the big rear sprocket at 48 MPH at the MegaKami and chewed off some material from the spokes before my chain ripped apart. Still going strong after a bunch more enduros, DH and DS races and it's my daily driver trail bike. YMMV of course.

 Same frames different paint. A lot of innovations happening.

 What's wrong with e13 chain guides? Or wheels?

 @cedrico: what schwalbe tires did you replace them with?

 @provin1327: you have to be joking right? I’ve heard reports that leprechauns live in the woods too? You truly believe that Sram has no R&D department? Dude, step away from Pinkbike for a minute. I’m saying this as a consumer with both Sram and Shimano bikes in the garage.

 My Ethirteen alloy rims were garbage, the dropper I had to get warrantied, but luckily my cassette has been going strong for two seasons.

 @Squinned: I think you're right about the conjecture bit; I somewhat regret my first comment. Is there any public data about the percentage failure rate of components? If not, maybe there could be a system for mtb consumers to report all the products they have and also which have failed, and from that, statistics could be generated?

 The original pinch bolt design on the 1st gen ethirteen cassettes was a bad design. The new lock ring design is much better. Having had both, I hated then gen 1 but gen 2 has been pretty good so far.

 @cedrico: if you follow pinkbike logic. E13 is made of cheese, Sram is made of glued together parts that no one tested and Shimano SLX is the gold standard all bikes should have. And Box & TRP stuff is meh

 @sunringlerider: e13 dropper doesn’t work when it gets wet. SRAM shifters kinda suck and the derailleurs... slx is ok but the newer 2 pot brakes stink. Box I don’t know about. Trp is for when you are Gwin and you want SRAM-like brakes bolted to your Fox fork.

Every company can make decent stuff, some do it a lot more frequently than others.

 don't buy one then dork

 The E13 cassette assembly process has to be the dumbest system in the biking world. You have to wander what about a company when they come up with garbage like that. Plus, The TRS, LG1 and XCX naming system is stupid. I have no idea what any of that designates.

 @phops: in the past they have had much better suspension, they pretty much downgraded every model

 @trailtaco: You're right: NX, GX, SLX and XT are a self-explanatory names though.

 @bishopsmike: You do have a point. In the old days Shimano's naming system kind of made sense. LX, XT, XTR. Even Sram's made sense. X5, X7, X9, X0. Lately they've gotten a little convoluted though.

 @Marky771: absolutely agree! I destroyed a GX eagle derailleur the first Power shift I made! it Exploded I walked home!

 I honestly only have good things to say about E13! I’ve had their carbon wheels on both bikes for over a season and had zero issues. Best wheels I have owned! Actually I snapped a spoke, but that was probably more me than anything.
I also use their cranks, tires and chain guides and haven’t had any issues with anything.

 @donpinpon29: Sorry, I didn't quite get what you were saying. Do you mean to say that you smashed those bashguards to tiny pieces when riding the rockgarden? I honestly never broke any of these. I think at the time it were the traditional aluminium bashguards which would get bent. The polycarbonate bashguards from E-thirteen were quite reliable, from my experience.

 I have to agree. Ethirteen has a disproportionate amount of issues. My buddy's jeffsey has been one issue after another and his ethirteen cranks snapped in half on like a 2 foot jump. It was terrifying really.

 @Marky771: my e thirteen experience is as follows.
BB would not last more than a month even in the summer.

drive side crank arm loose on the spindle so would always wobble

hubs had probably the worst sealing i have ever seen, they managed to seize solid while sitting in a warm dry bedroom.

chain guide had to held together with a cable tie because the little alloy clasp fell off (to this day i have not seen one in use with the clasp still there).

free hub bodies have a 100% failure rate amongst my riding buddies.

ebike crank arm bent following an 18" drop.

im sure more will come to me but thats it for now.

 @agnostic: all hail the glass cranker!

 @Marky771: that cassette is ????

 @cedrico: Your google must be broken. Mine brings up a bunch of links complaining about GX Eagle! Anyway all I was saying is all companies have issues from time to time but usually the majority of their products work just fine. E13 is a bit more prone to criticism because they are on YT, and YT customers seem to complain more online than just going to their LBS (obviously). Either way all YT's now come with SRAM drivetrains (which YT can't mix and match with because SRAM doesn't allow it) so you're just dealing with E13 wheels which are solid, and some tires on the Capra. If you do some research on the new generation E13 tires they are getting great reviews. They are considerably different than the tires that were on the YT's last year (rounder and faster rolling) so people should have a good experience moving forward. I love my LG1 En Mopo tires. Way better than the Maxxis I was on before....

 @paulbrenneman: I thought it was the reverse- lockring w/ tool is V1 & pinch bolt design V2...

 I have also had a good experience with the eThirteen components that came on my YT. I have had the bike since March of 2018 and currently have over 100,000 feet of elevation gain and over 1,000 miles (just under that listed on my Strava because I was still using my legacy tracker, MapMyRide, for a few months into ownership). I am rebuilding the TRS+ dropper post for the first time right now. It has worked flawlessly since I bought it and love the actuator lever and prefer the quick post response it offers. My rear cassette had an issue about 6 months into ownership and I emailed them and was informed they had already corrected that issue with a new revision and sent me a new cassette quickly and I was back on the bike within a week. They have been very responsive and helpful when I email them questions. My two riding friends use their bashguard on their enduro bikes and have had zero problems with them cracking despite lots of impacts here in the PNW. I acknowledge not everyone has had the same experience, but this has been mine. Drivetrains take a lot of abuse and maybe my experience is from keeping everything clean and tuned has helped. The only issue I really have had with my YT is the internal cable routing for the rear derailleur wasn't keeping the cable stayed and on bigger jump lines or large drops where my rear suspension moves a lot it would slowly walk the cable and eventually pull the ferrule out of the derailleur causing a phantom shift part way down a line, but fixed this by adding another zip tie to where it exits near the bottom bracket.next to a tab.

 Is DW behind e13?

 @PocoBoho: At the very beginning, yes. He used to post his various bike part ideas on MTBR forums before he made his first product, the Evil (e13) bashguard. I still have a couple. He sold Evil and e13 companies many years ago. and went on to license his suspension link. I believe he does all kinds of engineering beyond the MTB realm.

Here is the 2003 PB interview with DW I haven't read it (again ) yet so forgive me if I buggered anything up.

www.pinkbike.com/news/article1573.html

 @DannyJB: at least its consistent

 @PocoBoho: Yes.

 @cedrico: My buddy had the same issue with his YT. cassette failed first ride. Turns out YT doesn't install a part on the cassette. I believe it's a tiny lock ring or washer. you have to remove the cassette and install it yourself. really f*cking stupid. If the cassette is installed on the wheel then obviously you're going to assume it's installed correctly. Ever since the LBS installed that part for him his cassette has been running smooth

 Great OEM deals from SRAM to keep market awareness/share...SLX and GX are the real comparison and an even greater gap in price, NX really is Deore 6xx level stuff, decent enough but lower mid spec.

 Because Shimano does not sell suspension. Your OEM NX group costs a hell of a lot less when you buy it along with RS suspension for your whole fleet. Assuming that "you" = "bike manufacturer"

 They clearly save a ton on components. which is why they can offer more affordable bikes

 I think part of the problem is the spline drive. Can YT source that cheap from dt swiss?

 Have to get the e-bike to get Shimano. Thanks YT.

 @bikeorski4me: Agreed. And SLX is superior and cheaper IMO.

 Good point you're making, but I don't think that haberdashery means what you think it does... It means retailer of men's clothing, or one who sells sewing and clothes making supplies.

 eBay prices and what a manufacturer or LBS for that matter pays are quite different. SRAM enforces pricing, Shimano doesn’t. Two very different business models and companies - customers all benefit from having both exist. Shops tend to benefit more from SRAM, since people actually come in to buy/order/replace it, and their warranty service is light years ahead of the competition. I can’t touch shimano pricing.

Even at shimano’s best possible employee pricing - under shop cost, lots of drivetrain components are available at a very similar price online to what I’d pay. The haberdashery is the European non enforced shimano pricing which drowns the aftermarket in that plentiful amount of parts, which makes the price look much lower to the end user than it supposedly should be.

Ultegra 11-28 cassettes were so dirt cheap online at one point everyone was buying them just for the “70% off” to the extent that I found 3 on bikes at a race - two on 10 speed bikes and one on a 9 speed bike. And none of them could figure out why their bike didn’t shift correctly. Two claimed their LBS looked over the bike or installed it. Fun times

 @FatTonyNJ: Aaah most bikes are spec FOX shocks and forks.

 @bikeorski4me: Deore 6xx level... Old enough to know to LOL. And you're totally right. SLX is great kit.

 @parkourfan: na they've kind of fixed that. I used to buy Shimano stuff cheap on bike24 and now it says that it cannot be sold to me.

 @reverend27: Lordgun. That's where I get all my cheap Shimano parts and shipping is quick too!

 @stumphumper92: aren't prices at the same level as last year but with lower spec?

 @reverend27: Just because one online retailer is no longer selling Shimano doesn't mean "they've kind of fixed that"

 @CycloGoss: actually if it's only one store then "kind of" is pretty accurate.

 @CycloGoss: here's another www.bike-discount.de/en/buy/shimano-xtr-rd-m9100-11-12-speed-rear-derailleur-740351

Now I'm not saying you can't get it cheaper somewhere but the cheapest are the German retailers and they seem to have been legally bound from selling to usa.

 @CycloGoss: www.bike-discount.de/en/buy/shimano-disc-brake-pads-ice-tec-j02a-resin-437813

Won't even sell me brake pads.

 @jojotherider1977: Canyon can.

 @mammal: tomfoolery?

 Because SRAM gives the stuff away to OEMs so they can put them on their bikes. Only way for their trash groups to get market penetration. Oh and with the purchase of every SRAM group at rock bottom pricing they also get a reverb for free. Funny how Shimano gets called out for discounting at retail but yet no one bitches when SRAM discounts considerably more at the OEM level. The hypocrisy is real with mtb riders.

 @gus6464: it's like people think manufacturers consider quality and capability over bottom line. Just because 75% of bikes are speced with a certain brand, doesnt make that brand good or better.

 SLX and Spline were not ready in time for wide spread 2020 OEM spec.

 @parkourfan: what's wrong us sram fixing prices to keep them high. Shimano have the right idea. They sell them to the trade at agreed prices. Its then the trade to set prices to customers based on cost of running thier business and where they wait to sit on the price/volume/ margin/ service range

 no one in their right mind buys E thirteeen components so YT are probably paying peanuts for them.
The first "real bike" type of customers that YT seem to attract will google them see that the RRP's on the parts are high and assume they are to quality parts. see it all the time people are programmed to think expensive means quality.

 @stumphumper92: nope not entirely, they can sell cheap because there is no supply chain to maintain. no LBS no distributors, no easy way of sorting out issues unless you have a very freindy bike shop that is willing to warranty the components for you with the regional distributors. for frame issues its back to germany where you might get it sorted in 2-6 months.

 @parkourfan: i think shimano have stopped some big online retailers in europe from selling to the US.
CRC were the biggest culprit, they are over buying components at manufacturer rates due to the fact that they produce vitus bikes then selling the excess on immediately when i believe the understanding is they are not supposed to sell off current generation OEM parts only previous generations.

 @OzarkBike: real truth. Shimano Even said so in the 2019 market launch.

 @skycripp at least Santa Cruz are in stock all year long.

 And don't break! @WhatToBuy:

 Unless you get your Santa Cruz on end of year deal..

 @WhatToBuy: LOL that is true!!

 The santa cruz can hold a bottle. Worth it

 @WhatToBuy: soooo then just buy earlier in the year and don’t overspend by more than $2000... this is not a secret at this point. We all know that YT is a smaller company with limited stock and that they sell out (the goal of any bike company is to sell all their bikes). Plan accordingly (buy before August), or just go to your local SC dealer and spend thousands more. Not complex.

 @WhatToBuy: This......Atleast you can buy frame only from santa cruz.

 @TypicalCanadian: Great ,, but where is frame only for Canadians.

 @bohns1: This^
No frame only option, no sale.

 @shredb4dead: Thats how I roll as well.. Years of accumulating parts.. Ill never need to buy another complete..

 Man I just got an AL Bronson and it super fun. I'm coming off a 2020 Hightower 2 XX1 AXS Reserve. Changes in financial goals prompted the drastic change.

I have the R build and it's a touch heavy. Most of the extra weight being in the ridiculously crappy NX drivetrain. It functions okay enough but the cassette weighs as much as a Volkswagen. That being said, I'm having more fun on it than I was having on the Hightower. It's a blast to ride!

Once I swap the drivetrain for something lighter (already have eeWings that I bought a year ago) I know I'll love it more.

The funny thing is, when riding the HT with all the super expensive fancy bits I couldn't avoid thinking to myself, "Is this thing really worth $10,500 retail?" With the Bronson I'm always thinking, "Man this is a steal at $3,500!" I blame PB for making me believe that I would only be able to have fun on a >$7500 bike LOL.

 Hey man, some of us would rather spend $2500 to lighten our bike 3 lbs than we spend 2 weeks trying to lose that weight ourselves, okay? Geez. /s

 Just get a Commencal Clash Race 2020 and put the money saved in a RS Superdeluxe Coil and Minions. And beer(s).

 @zsandstrom: plus what happens if someone lifts my bike up and it feels heavier than theirs. I can’t handle that kind of shame.

 @zsandstrom: $2500 tightens up my diet very nicely..

 Not having more Alloy bikes is really sad. I feel it's a move to get more profit from the "Oh, I need carbon and I'll pay a shit load more for a bike that'll make me no better, but a lot cooler," crowd.

 Totally agree. I've been clamoring for an alloy Jeffsy with the updated geometry. Are you listening @YTIndustries

 @neimbc: the gap is too big between base and comp thanks by that :/
i will be laughing if they do limited al comp

 @bakemono: Yeah, weird move after all the limited raw alloy releases. No more Shitram please

 @bakemono: Bottom of the article; "While this update seems to cover a lot of the line, we suspect there may be more models and updates from YT for 2020 yet to come."

 @toesonthenose2: sadly its just info from writer

 @Kptzbik: not all models are released yet and there is more to come.

 @toesonthenose2: you expect people to read before bitching? Tall order on PB.

 I was wondering if they might update the Capra this year to address that. I've always been curious about one for a sometimes park/sometimes pedaling bike. The STA is the biggest thing bumping it from the top of my consideration list as I'm rather tall and long-legged.

 I also think that YT's diagrams about STA on their site are misleading. They report effective seat tube angle, but the accompanying diagram labels the much slacker actual STA with this measurement making it seem like the bike is more in line with its competitors. Given that they have the line for the effective STA drawn on the diagram, I'm not sure what their excuse is for this.

 God, how tall are you? I am 178 which is pretty common average (or just above it judging by Wikipedia) and seat ends up almost exactly where Effective seat angle is measured... Bloody tall people should go together and start a fundraiser to make special dropper with massive positive offset.

FYI: 29ers with 140+ travel, stays shorter than 440 and seat angles slacker than 76 you can’t have a straight tube drawn from BB because fricking rear wheel will hit the fricking seat tube. Bejeazes... het a bloody Geometron with stays measured in feet and leave bikes for 90% of population alone...

 Yep. I measured the actual STA at 65 degrees, and with about a 38 inch inseam, it feels like I'm hanging off the back of the bike on steeper climbs, even with the seat pushed forward on the rails as far as possible. This is my biggest complaint about the bike, and I was really hoping for an update this year. I've thought about running an angle set so I can keep the bike in it's steeper setting and still have the headtube angle where I want it

 @WAKIdesigns: one more reason to have cs longer than 440mm and sa steeper than 76. Win win for me!

 @EnduroManiac: I just wonder... is there anyone here who wants a bike that is easy to jump and put sideways? Is there anyone here who likes occasional airtime, backwheel action? Because I am reading about is how To make good seat angles for climbing, how much stability people want and how horrific too much travel is. According to general voice of Pinkbike the only idea of a fun bike people have here is by buying a f*cking hardtail with a f*cking 160 fork, but only(!) under condition that it is at least as long as a f*cking DH bike. Some f*cking “genius” even said that such bike is good for riding pumptracks and skate parks. Another bloody Genius said he is building an aggressive single speed.

A f*cking society of people who praise fest series, stylish slopestyle riders, but all they talk about is f*cking seat angle for climbing. During Field test I didn’t see a single bloody video of someone riding a gnarly trail, rather one rock feature and tons of berms Sam Pilgrim rode on a bloody DJ. The only bloody tester that looked fast was bloody filmer Jason Lucas. Mike Levy who used to tatto himself and send sletchy ass drops wants a bike to shred chicken lines because according to him it is cool to go around stuff. Then he cannot do 2 effing laps on a pumptrack.

I am suddenly having a weird feeling I am on bloody Bike Radar from 2008 or a quasi roadie German magazine filled with commercial of fugly helmets and announcements of lame ass Flat Bar Gravel Marathons ending at Rive Del Garda.

The only thing that bothers me, if you are so into climbing efficiency, ehy don’t you just buy yourself a bloody E-bike. Pinkbike got old... time to start doing triathlons gentlemen. You say you focus on downs and having fun, yet you want to pump out PRs on fireroads. Time to buy yourselves arm warmers. If you git them under all the bloody armor the father figures here tell us to wear, because their reasoning is better than trying to be cool. And they still eat shit flying off stupid jumps.

Have yourself a merry gravel and shred your chicken lines with pride. Keep demanding bikes that are stable and predictabe because that is the essence of mountain biking. Steep climbs done when sitting on your asses spinning shortest cranks you can find to not hit rocks because pedal timing skill is too much to ask. That’s why we put knee guards on. Make sure the chin piece in your helmet sits well!

 @WAKIdesigns: Have you considered just putting a wide range cassette and a shock with a lockout on a DH bike?

 @WAKIdesigns: WE're not supposed to have fun anymore...thats why everything is a 29er now.

 @abalian: Superstar components still has - 35% on all their products, including the - 2° slackerizer angleset. So instead of 50 gbp it now retails for 32.50. And they produce them for a huge portfolio of head tube standards. Code is 2020

 @WAKIdesigns: this is not incompatible with the numbers I posted. Calm down, there will still be this kind of bike you describe. I just hope it develops also in the direction I want cause current choice is extremely limited.

 @WAKIdesigns:
I have a Capra XXL 27 and I find the STA actually pretty steep.
Even at this XXL frame size, the bike feels kinda compact for me.because a steeper STA means less ETT.
Funny thing is that every fella who got a ride with my bike said the same. The XXL feels smaller than expected.
I'm 193 btw.

 Thats funny mate!!!

 @WAKIdesigns: Phoenix 29 Small, Reverb wireless, 10-45t and stop bitching about bitches

 you got the wrong size frame buddy. @abalian:

 Yea they actually went backwards here. My capra mk1 pedalled really well, had a steeper actual seat angle at my saddle height than the mk2. In fact. My mk2, although it was amazing downhill, was the worst pedaling bike Ive ever ridden, and the frame was ebayed within 1 month. They need to sort it out.

 @Richt2000: Have to agree here. Enjoyed my 2016, 27.5 more than my current 2018, 29. Went up hill a lot better and I think i've discovered i'm a 27.5 man. For me the DH ability is negligible purely for the fact I felt a lot more confident and had more fun on the 2016.

 @moroj82: Ok, what size should I have gotten?

 @rynee: Thanks for the tip, I'll take a look

 @WAKIdesigns: haha love a good rant! That was pretty entertaining

 @MikeyMT: THIS! Couldn't have said it better myself! But...but...I can't get KOMs if I'm not on a 29er!!

 Compared to last year the specs/price ratio of the new YT lineup is abysmal.

 @Ttimer: Exactly. 3k€ for NX drivetrain and Rythm fork? the basic capra model is coming with that crap called SX and Yari. Mine from 2017 came with X1 11-speed and lyrik and is even lighter than new CF pro without pedals.

 These are wise words of a true gentlemen of exquisite taste.

 totally agreee... and got the last one from 2019 stock

 That Capra Pro Race 29, in Titan Silver is gorgeous!!

 TRP brakes are awesome man

 Yeah that's a great move. Can confirm many, many E13 drivetrain issues with my old Capra. Now the wheels need to go... lots of good options out there.

 Interesting...I’ve owned 3 e13 cassettes (including first and current gen) paired with Shimano XTR and they have been really solid. My first one lasted over 2 seasons and 200,000 feet of climbing and still shifted fine when I removed it. I have the current gen Jeffsy with e13/shimano and I wouldn’t hesitate to build/recommend the same to anyone.

 @ryan83: Agreed. My wheels and cassette have been great. The enduro wheels have survived multiple trips to Whistler without even needing a truing.

 Just could never get the e13 cassette to play nice with the rest of the drive train and expensive to replace. Went to Shimano. The e13 rubber is fantastic, but durability is appalling. Cut the tires it came with immediately. Tried the dual ply, lasted a month. My hub body broke on the rims, warranty was good. With DD tires, I found the durability of the e13 rims not bad. But when I sent them back for warranty, bought Tairin wheels and have been much better!

 @ckcost: don't know how it holded up that well for you
mine lasted 1200 km, , other than having to swap the upper because of the play they had.
as for the wheels, rode them a month and sold them, they flexed like crazy and was always rubbing the tire on the frame, a proper wheel with 32 spokes(dt ex511 with hope pro 4) resolved the issue, no more rubbing for me

 Sadly this N of 1 can add to the E13 issues list. My last bike came with E13 wheels- the rims themselves were too soft with multiple dents from fairly minor impacts, the way the tires sat on the rim made them far more susceptible to flats, and then as icing on the cake, on a gentle climb the pawls tore free of their shells destroying the freehub. One product one person and all products can fail... but it was not a good look and I'm in no rush to buy something with E13 wheels with so many other options out here (Replaced it within the first few months with my trusty Flow/DT350 combo with ratchet upgrade in the hub).

 Yo @sherbet where you at boy? Got some defending to do here.

 TRP brakes are great and I've tried them all. Especially with Galfer discs and pads.

 @Kimura: no kidding! TRP and Tektro make good stuff for the most part.

I'd say Tektro Orion 4P M745 are the real sleepers here. Got a set and I am absolutely blown away.

Better than Shimano M520 except for lever shape (personal pref) for less money ($75 vs $99)

Quadiems are really nice too, but at that price point i'd pick something else (and much prefer lever shape of Tektro Orions compared to Quadiems)

PS: Do not confuse TRP Slate with Quadiem- TRP Slate G-Spec kinda suck, underpowered and lever shape is too blocky. Tektro Orions are (surprisingly) much better.

 @MRwillP: Been on e13 wheels for 2 seasons now and they have been awesome. No issues to report. Way better than the Stans I had previously. Those hubs suuuucked and the rims were boat anchors. Have 2 friends on YT's with nothing but good things to say about their e13 wheels either...Might be worth noting we're all on the Plus level wheels or carbon...

I also use the e13 11 speed cassette and have had great luck with it paired with XT shifter and derailleur. I almost used the XT cassette but weight and that 37-46 jump was a deal breaker...

 @dontcoast: I have had both the Quadiem and Slates. The only difference is the Slates have more material machined off the caliper and the lever is different. If you run the Shimano or even the TRP Metallic pads the Slates work well. They are both great breaks and fade free.

 @vaughnm: Hows the modulation and power compare between the two?

 I was hoping for a faded kelp colorway.

 That would be great, Instant buy from me

 My fingers are crossed for the same, I'm on Capra my Wife is on Jeffsy, and they are both great bikes. But a rowdy trail bike I could do the odd XC race on and still have fun on a the down would be tempting for sure.

 Yep, I can't get on...

 More models are on the way... YT is just getting started.

 "While this update seems to cover a lot of the line, we suspect there may be more models and updates from YT for 2020 yet to come."

 @toesonthenose2 / @mikepal alright thanks, I overread that. *puts hayfork away*

 @wowbagger: LOL!

 I was waiting with my credit card in hand. This is a let down.

 I hope the AL version is going to be slacker than 66 HA .. simmilar aproach Ibis has to its Ripmo AF model , that would be great

 and 65 HA for the AL version would be nice as well or an angle set option for all models CF and AL would be even more awesome

 I was hanging on to see these bikes, forgoing the sale. I hate all these new colours in the mid range. Blue looks sweet, too spec silver acceptable.

 Man, I picked up the AL Comp and I'm so happy. It would have sucked to wait for 2020 models to see this. Would have been left without a bike then cause this is some proper shit.

 @YanDoroshenko: I just ordered a capra al base in blue. I guess I'm going to have some fun swapping parts over for a few weeks. Mullet from the get go.

 US prices are without VAT (DPH).

 @Ferisko: hmm, I don't know with that. Can someone confirm? Seems to be strange.

 @Ferisko: True, but sales tax in the USA is in the single digits and the highest is in the california which is 7.25%. See the difference?

 @Scart35: And how is that YT's fault? It's not YT ripping you off, it's the european countries goverments. Or should YT reduce the prices to compensate for 20% to 25% VATs that EU countries typically impose on their citizens?

@milanulrich: US prices are always listed without VAT, because every state and sometimes even local municipalities can set their own. Some don't even have VAT at all.

 @Ferisko: Why are you so angry? Can you please point where I said that it is YTs fault or where I wanted them to lower the prices? I was just merely stating the truth, as that information was lacking from your former response to milan.

 yeah reverbs don't work if it's sweater weather or colder

 @gumbytex: yes they do if there is enough oil inside

 @pepazz: Lol you do not live in Canada! You don't know cold.

 If your transfer isn’t popping back up, check the tension on your seat post binder bolt.

 @Marcencinitas: my transfer post never returns all the way, regardless of seat post collar tension. Guess it has to go to Fox.

 Totally agree, E-thirteen is very reactive while an issue on Fox will mean no ride for 1 month and YT does not care about it. And I have a 2016 capra cf pro: almost 1.5kg lighter than the 2020 cf pro race...

 I also have had good experiences with E*thirteen customer service. I bought a set of LG1 Carbon DH rims of the Pinkbike classifieds, they were brand new take offs of a new bike, but I was not technically the original owner and had no claim for any warranty coverage. Well, after two days of heavy bike park use I found a nice distinct crack in the rear rim. I contacted E*thirteen and explained the situation and they set me up with a pretty nice discount for a new hoop. I was super impressed with that since they really had no obligation to do anything for me, since as I stated I was not the original owner. That experience turned me into a big fan of E*thirteen stuff. I haven't had any other issues with E*thirteen components on my bikes.

 If you look closely, you will see that it says "Weight measured without pedals 2014 - 2019 models in frame size S / Regular | 2020 models in frame size L / Long." I would wager that that's where most of the weight difference comes from, small frame vs large frame.

 My friend bought the 2019 base, and even the lowest level model of the Capra absolutely rips! its such a cool bike. I would buy the base!

 Did they do something like that with McGazza?

 Commencal and Pole are the first two that came to mind.

 They are comming , just wait

 Those are real photos. Maybe a bit over-sharpened, abut real photos.

 These bikes have BNG (bold new graphics) so they're different and better. Go and buy!

 Most people are expecting a new model, or new geometry for later in 2020.

 They'll probably release the Aluminum update geometry separately.

 @blindstuff: hope the jefsy AL is going to be slacker then thouse CF versions

 These are real photos. If you look at them you clearly see that these are not just rendered graphics.

 dont know either

 Depends on which model. I just was on a minute ago and was surprised how much stock they had...

 I picked up a Jeffsy 29 Pro Race on the Labor Day sale - $900 USD discount.

 What do you expect?
A new frame every year?
The current Jeffsy was introduced 2019 and the Capra and Tues 2018.
Every common brand has a three or even four year model cycle.

 @Morrrice: Capra and Tues are always lokk the same since 2016. A bit steeper shock mount istn a new frame. The silhouette of the Bikes owuld still be the same since the first bikes are out for sale.. I think they need to evolve at least one bike in the near future. And I dont mean another minimal new position for the shock or anything like this.

 The decoy is sooo over priced, and only a 500wh battery :-(

 @Eduardoramundo: what is better for the money?

 @Eduardoramundo:
Overpriced?
Its the best bang for the buck ebike!

 @mxsled: Not in uk. Specialized Kenevo 2020 Comp can be had for the same price as the base and Levo comp for £500 more if you shop around. That give you full 2 year warranty and backup.

 Yeah, but only in aluminum. Lame.

 I still have a 27.5 Commencal Meta. Love the bike! Keeps up with my friend's 29er Capra!

 Not their market- they make bikes for the masses.

 Bike shop brands aren’t even close to competitive against YT, Commencal, and Canyon when you consider pricing and how fast these things depreciate. I’ll happily take a slightly less updated frame with more amazing parts as all of these bikes will be displaced in a few years by the “latest and greatest”. Just bought my wife the new Jeffsy and having a hard time believing any bike costing near double could have twice the performance...the thing is amazing.

 @ryan83: exactly. Regardless of the hype machine these bikes are more than enough for 99.9% of riders.

 @ryan83: I didn't mention anything about bike shop brands. Canyon and pretty much every other manufacturer have several trail bikes covering a full range of travel options. There are plenty of people that don't have a need for the 160mm of front travel. I've had 2 YT bikes and will not buy a third due to the continued trend of increasing the travel. It's not necessary where I ride. Having the latest and greatest means nothing if it's not the right type of bike for where you ride.

 @cmb47: Don't blame YT for your lack of terrain, just buy the right bike for yourself.


That said, I wouldn't be surprised if they come out with a DC or XC or Gravel bike soon........muaaaaahahahaha

 @endlessblockades: XC like norco optic would be great 130mm /140 mm travel range

 He's on Canyon now.

 @acali: Bravo

 That's a cool Pro Race version. I wonder which pros are racing it?

 It does come as a frame set. You buy the base model for £1999 and sell all the parts. Then you got the frame set for about £1000

 soon I guess.

 In stock now. Except for a couple Small and Med TUES.

 What do you need to drink for? Hydration is so 2014.

 Beer cans go in hip or back pack. They get way too shaken up on a frame cage.

 Seat tube angle is the same as last year!

 @toesonthenose2: I saw that reading the comments. Thank you. I haven't really looked at YT before. Do you like them?
Also, my question stands...what's with the STA from 2015? lol

 @mybaben: STA isn't as bad as it may look by the numbers... the 29 Capra actually climbs quite well and Goes downhill even faster

 @toesonthenose2: Well it def looks fast for the downs!!

 @mybaben: My friend has the 2019 base, and its such a fun bike. It completely destroys rock gardens and chunky trail. That geometry is dialed.

 @Shafferd912: Sounds rad!

 As far away as possible...

 I noticed that also. I don’t give an eff about 29ers.

 @Bimmer28: Me neither my dude. Me neither.

 e13 stuff is garbage no doubt...but at least no more drivetrain from them

 LOUD NOISES!

 @acali: I like SRAM, going full Eagle on all is a thumbs up from me. Although I'm not in the market.

 You should respoy try the new shimano. Ive snapped so many eagle chains and broke 2 gx shifters @stoo61:

 @acali: GOOORN!

 @freeridejerk888: Ive got the XTR/ E Thirteen mash up on my 2017 Capra, not had any real problems with it, its a bit clunky and the top cog is dinged. I have Eagle GX on my Kingdom Vendetta HT and generally I prefer it for shifting/range.

Basically i'm happy with both.

 TO ALL mtb makers: Make Shimano great again!!

 I don't like the colors either. The black is good, but the green and khaki is too Better Homes and Garden for me. Let's see some good bold car colors like red, blue, silver, charcoal, etc.