Pole Bicycles Has Filed for Bankruptcy

Apr 17, 2024
by Sarah Moore  
Pole Bicycles

Pole Bicycles Company has appeared on a Finnish insolvency registry today.

The filing appeared on Finnish legal case database maksukyvyttomyysrekisteri.om.fi April 17, 2024.

photo

As of yet, there is no notice of it on Pole's website or social media, but founder Leo Kokkonen confirmed the news in a message to Rob Ride's eMTB's YouTube channel. Just three weeks ago, Pole announced their Factory Racing team of Dan Slack and Onni Rainio.

Based in Finland, Pole Bicycles was created in 2013 by Leo Kokkonen, an out-of-the-box designer and passionate rider. Pole Bicycles are designed, engineered and manufactured in Finland. The brand has been polarizing at times (no pun intended), but the bike industry is better for having new, creative approaches in it. We have reached out to Leo for more information, and we wish everyone at the company the best moving forward. Hopefully they can find a buyer for the brand and/or the IP, and build on some of their progressive ideas.

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277 Comments
  • 403 6
 Ugh! You really hate to see it happen with the true innovators out there.
  • 64 1
 Agreed.
  • 288 1
 Had a warranty issue recently and Pole not only replaced the parts no questions asked but they also REDESIGNED the parts to solve the issue and OVERNIGHTED them from Finland to SF.

Turnaround time was on par with Specialized, (but unlike Specialized they didn’t try to weasel out of the warranty).

This is more a reflection of the industry than of Pole as a company, at least in my experience.
  • 181 5
 @Blownoutrides: So it was your fault. How do you sleep at night?
  • 196 174
 Is anyone surprised really ? How can you make something so ugly even if it works and expect it to sell ?

I'll count my down votes later after work.
  • 34 88
flag aks21 FL (Apr 17, 2024 at 18:40) (Below Threshold)
 @heavyp: upvote
  • 60 20
 @heavyp: I didn't downvote you for your opinion on the looks. But, man I love the looks of pole bikes. Watch I get downvoted now.
  • 31 8
 I loved they went full in on a 190 front 200 rear ebike. Take notes, other bike brands!
  • 1 9
flag kmsafety (Apr 17, 2024 at 19:29) (Below Threshold)
 @PtDiddy:
  • 79 3
 I’m really going to miss letting people ride my pole.
  • 19 11
 Can only put so much lipstick on a pig?
  • 21 21
 Best decision i did was cancel was cancel my Pole order after too many red flags and bought a Nicolai . I’ve never owned a bike for 4 years and have not seen a bike since that is remotely tempting.
Thanks Leo!
  • 21 8
 @tonybah: yeah, I’m sure the name was responsible for at least a 40% suppression in their possible sales .
Ugliness was the other 60%
Leo was 100%
  • 7 0
 @AndrewFleming: The whole industry is probably depressed due to my warranty claims #thedestructioncompany
  • 12 0
 @heavyp: They may look ugly but ride a charm. I had the chance to test ride their Sonni. 190/200 25kgs that felt like a trail bike. Super cool design and of all the E-Bikes I have ridden recently, I'd got for the Sonni even with the special looks.
  • 31 1
 It is very sad indeed but not unexpected. It often happens that people who are visioners are stobborn and overconfident. The same thing which makes them succeed in the beginning, make them fall afterwards, since no man can handle it all, so they finally make mistakes which are unrecoverable. Leo is a genius but also a one stubborn m*therf**ker.
  • 9 5
 @heavyp: not everyone likes blond with blue eyes
  • 14 0
 Btw have you seen the news about Kona? Would be very surprised if this ends well ...
  • 18 3
 @Blownoutrides: I mean this might seem good from your perspective but it's not good for a company to do this.

That's like $300 an hour design time then manufacturing time on top of that. All because they didn't have proper product testing before bringing a product to market. Your replacement part is probably worth 30% of the entire bike.

This is how you bankrupt a company at the speed of light. Is it good they took care of their customer? Yea and no... If the product was designed right you don't need a $3000 replacement part lol. How many other customers are not getting taken care of now? How many times have they had to do this?

These mistakes pole has made... It's shocking they sold anything. But I guess there's people out there with more money than sense the writing was on the wall with this one.

Also curious how many chargebacks they have had and how that factors into their decision making
  • 2 0
 @heavyp: not only that(I'm agree but ugly is just subjetive point) those innovation and making CNC frame also I guess it means high cost. For a small company they will need strong financial support to keep the project other wise this is the result. Is not the first and will be not the last.
  • 1 0
 @heavyp: man its even stevens as of 12:33 or as they say it eurovision nil pois
  • 2 1
 @endurafrica: did you mean to say “bald and cross-eyed”? Cause the look of recent poles was a lot more comparable to that.
That vertical wall in front of the BB was a Friday Fails” waiting to happen
  • 3 0
 @Blownoutrides: Meanwhile companies like Canyon take 3 months and drag their feet.
  • 2 2
 @tonybah: LOL!
  • 12 5
 Shouldn't an innovator create something new but that offers a benefit to the way you do something or work? Outside of the Pole marketing spiel, I can't see any benefit at all in the way they've chosen to build their frames and what they've ended up with is something massively ugly which has been too expensive to produce for the volumes they sell. There is a lot to be said for a traditionally welded frame... it works.
  • 6 0
 Sad too we all speak the true now that we are going to funneral!... Easy bitching has some consecuences too... they also had their responsability... but here we should help them and have much respect not sink them...
  • 5 3
 @endurafrica: but nobody likes 5 multi coloured eyes, an arm sticking out your head, a winkie hanging out your cheek and 1 leg.
  • 2 1
 @daveyboywonder: I went to school with a dude that lost his winkie to drug abuse so.... he had a winkie grown.... out of his arm! google Malcom Mcdonald for a good laugh.
  • 2 0
 @endurafrica: true but everyone seems to like Sydney Sweeney.
  • 11 1
 They strung along early "investors" with delays on pre-orders while working on other bikes with different constuction methods. They touted the "innovation" of bolting frames together then abandoned that before even delivering many preorders (that had been almost half paid for, not just a token deposit!) and switched to the new "innovation" of glue and yet still failed to deliver in a timely manner. Meanwhile, with folks that gave them money are still waiting, they're off developing new [e]bikes instead of figuring out how to make the first bikes in a cost-effective and time-efficient way. It is a true innovation if you can't make it practical and market viable? This was less innovation and more like experimentation, with money from people who didn't explicitly agree to that.
  • 1 1
 @naptime: Yah, I don't find that very funny.
  • 1 0
 @heavyp: totally agree, it's an ugly problem...
  • 1 0
 Innovation is interesting term here some do it better than others.
  • 2 0
 @naptime: well that was an interesting read. Thanks
  • 2 0
 @brianpark: Petition to save grandpas ballsack.
  • 1 0
 @heavyp: at 23:13 it looks like you may have snatched the upvote downvote thing from the jaws of defeat, i very rarely come back to check on such things but this demanded it
  • 2 0
 @Cheddar420: Pole’s vertical design / manufacturing allows them to respond to design issues orders of magnitude faster that a typically structured bike company.

Specialized probably had a 2:1 ratio of warranteed Enduro frames. The only reason that didn’t bankrupt them is their size.
  • 3 0
 @Blownoutrides: Faster, but the method is ultra costly. Bonding and machining only the junctions/stays seems much more reasonable.
  • 7 0
 @Blownoutrides: there's a lot more to it than just size though.

Look at costs of carbon vs. 6061. Then factor in buying volume.

Each of poles bikes is essentially a carbon mold. People will acknowledge how long it takes to make a mold. How costly it is. How prohibitive it is for companies to change design. Yet here's pole doing it...for every single bike.... It's literally insane. Companies say upwards of 100k for a new mold. Poles bikes? Under 10k lol. What? There's no money there. Pole could make more money running a traditional machine shop.

I legitimately don't know how they got investment in the first damn place. Athertons are doing custom geo for cheaper. Geometron has managed to make Bikes for years that are truly custom. Pole has the most expensive manufacturing process I've seen from any bike brand.
  • 1 0
 @lkubica: agreed. CNC lugs bonded to alum tubes like would meet Pole’s ethos and simplify things a bunch. Was hoping they would pivot in that direction next.
  • 261 8
 they're finnished
  • 109 6
 Czech mate
  • 38 1
 Cold but gold
  • 51 2
 A shame to see them Helsinki
  • 5 1
 They will come back.. Never helps when the industry shafts ya
  • 10 22
flag tacklingdummy (Apr 17, 2024 at 20:08) (Below Threshold)
 Maybe they will rebound? But lots of compression in the market.
  • 4 4
 Sounds like someone is getting the shaft
  • 15 2
 I'm hungary for more.
  • 6 5
 @jammf: Hopefully they'll Finnd some new capital...
  • 10 2
 investors couldn't sweden the pot.
  • 19 1
 one tried, but they said that there was absolutely norway.
  • 3 0
 He’s no finished, he’s only 28!

For those not acquainted with Scottish football banter youtu.be/tvreCDC61Zw?si=ls5_gTMurpF5CKxu
  • 6 0
 I heard they're actually just moving shop to Poland.
  • 101 3
 genuinely sad. Leo is an innovator free thinker and shredder. Running any business is hard, probably harder in the bike industry. Best wishes to all of them and their suppliers.
  • 88 1
 How do you make a small fortune in the bike industry? Start with a large one.
  • 17 1
 @thebradjohns: "You know how to make a million? Start with two million."
  • 6 14
flag aks21 FL (Apr 17, 2024 at 18:42) (Below Threshold)
 @abtcup: The reality of the bike industry is that nobody gets rich. Nobody.
  • 81 2
 @elrad As divisive as Leo could be (and I think some of that was just lost in translation due to cultural differences) - he had vision. While other brands "tweaked" head and seat tube angles 0.5 degrees a year for 5 years in a row - he was already there.

Yes, I had some warranty issues during the pandemic - but in the end, Pole sorted me out, and Leo even had the guts to have a personal phone call with me to explain the situation.

Wishing him the best on his future endeavours.
  • 22 1
 @jaydubmah: Totally! Without him and Chris Porter pushing their ideas and vision, there would have been nothing for Transition and other companies to package more appealingly and we would be years behind the killer bikes we have now.
  • 1 0
 @thebradjohns: 100%
  • 2 0
 @aks21: Mike Sinyard has probably gotten rich, John Burke at Trek too. But I doubt anyone else has gotten rich.
  • 6 0
 I've been silently loving (and beating the sh!t out of) my 2017 Pole Evolink, while watching other brands take 6-7 years to slowly converge around this exact same geometry. Bike is now 7+ years old and rides like a brand new model. Hard to top that!
  • 2 2
 Seem to have had a new bike every 6 months for the last few years though, loved poles had an evolink for a while, but I wouldn’t buy one if I thought the model would be dropped in 6 months time for something else

Not to mention the frame only price is up there with some decent complete bikes
  • 3 0
 @jaydubmah:
The dude was an arrogant cockwomble, but I thought his bikes were cool. So cool, that I tried to buy one - a stamina 140. I got strung along like many others on that for a long time before they refunded some of my money.
No matter how cool I think his bikes are, I won’t be sending him any money.

Oh and anyone that mentioned anything critical on the fb group got banned, despite lots of good constructive criticism and learning that came from the unsuspecting prototype testers (customers).
  • 107 21
 i'll be blunt, if they didn't design such polarizingly Fugly bikes, they would still be in business. Like their weld full sus frames back in 2017. Those were nice looking bikes. The Evolink, that was a nice frame. Their current frames looks like a sloth dragging their balls across the ground.
  • 37 1
 I don't necessarily disagree, I don't think they're good looking bikes , but in a crowded market how many bikes would you sell if you made trek clones . I think it's great when someone has a vision and sticks with it , unfortunately sometimes the market doesn't agree with that vision .
  • 26 2
 @moonsaballoon: you’re implying trek bikes look good
  • 9 0
 Yeah I agree, those older Pole bikes looked great, the new ones do not. Making a good looking bike is so important, especially in a crowded market.
  • 8 1
 The odd water bottle placements on the Onni doesn’t help matters. Nutcrusher and Giardia.
  • 2 8
flag aks21 FL (Apr 17, 2024 at 18:44) (Below Threshold)
 This guy f-cks.
  • 9 0
 I grudgingly agree. I am a form- follow-function kinda guy but they may fly too close to the sun even for me. Unfortunately for them, esthetics matter and their designs are just too far out of the box for most potential customers. In a perfect world, someone with more money than me swoops in and saves the company, with hopefully a bit of encouragement to produce frames that are more palatable to the paying public while maintaining their industry leading tech.
  • 20 0
 @mungz: you leave my son and daughter out of this
  • 4 0
 I have an Evolink and was surprised at first how much attention it got on the trails. A ton of questions and compliments everytime I went out for a ride. Even in Utah I never came across another Evolink so the rarity is a big factor.

I tried selling the frame on here but got almost zero interest, I think I’ll just build it back up and enjoy it.
  • 6 1
 @hot-beef-sundae: That's what everyone asks for though, straight top tube and lines, 4 bar like suspension, vertical shock. For most of their bikes, Trek has the aesthetic people are asking for.
  • 2 4
 @eae903: although I do think that Trek are ruining their aesthetics by going with high pivots on their longer travel bikes. High pivots can look good, Forbidden for example, but IMO treks high pivot design does not
  • 3 0
 @moabenchilada: I just had to link up that frame’s geo, and you seriously could build it back up and it’ll be basically the same geo as every other modern bike. Super cool, and also funny to me.
  • 1 0
 @hot-beef-sundae: they do, at least, look a bit like a session.
  • 1 0
 @moabenchilada: what size are you on?
  • 2 0
 I think the new ones look fine.

My main issue is I could have afforded the Evolink frameset and I would probably have (I was undecided between an evolink and a Cotic RocketMax) had I not found a nice second hand banshee but the price of the current range is just way too high.
  • 4 7
 ugliest bikes in the industry. The same with Eminent. they were ahead of everyone else when they debuted but damn. those are UGLY bikes.
  • 2 1
 I tend to agree. I like some of their original raw aluminum/bonded frame designs. I would likely look at a Pole if the rear suspension design wasn't, well, the way it is.

With so many good bikes out there, a brand has to mindful of aesthetics. You can deliver the same performance you did without making the shape of the rear chain/seatstay a protracted oval.
  • 1 0
 You know I don't disagree but the more I thought about it I was really considering one of their e frames in a year or two just because it was different from all the look alikes. That and the raw finishes, I'm a sucker for.
  • 1 0
 @opignonlibre: XL
  • 59 5
 Who could have seen that coming
  • 26 0
 judging by all the layoffs of late, I think more Bike companies maybe disappearing this year.
  • 34 0
 @rivercitycycles: sounds like it might be Kona next
  • 42 0
 @somebody-else: Yes, Kona have set up and then packed it all up at Sea Otter, with not reasons given.
  • 11 0
 @Stredda: it's so weird, especially since Kona looked to be updating the Process 153 soon and just dropped a new gravel bike.
  • 3 0
 @eae903: It might be nothing, but it is a bit strange. On the other hand, Pole had not long released the Onni and Sonni and now they are most like done.
  • 39 0
 @Stredda: Released the Onni and Sonni and now they are Donni
  • 2 0
 Eminent?
  • 2 0
 @eae903: Often the first people doing the work know about a bankruptcy is when they read about it in the news, or they turn up to work to find the doors locked.
  • 2 0
 @somebody-else: That was my assumption from the Sea Otter departure - shutting up shop at very short notice.
  • 45 1
 It was all downhill after PB broke their bike in the 2020 field test.
  • 24 8
 Even before that. Machining a front triangle in 2 big block is completely unnecessary. It's not aerostructure. And it's not that good looking with big ass machining scallops and no surface finishing.
  • 9 3
 @CaSentLeTabarnakMonHomme: for low volume manufacturing, and not just buying an off the shelf frame from Taiwan it is necessary. Hydroforming dies and carbon fibre moulds are big ticket items and are very difficult for small bike brands to afford. Plus, if there is a design flaw, you are screwed, as you now need new tooling. CNC allows for rolling revisions to be done.
  • 5 3
 @CaSentLeTabarnakMonHomme: yeah, the lack of surfacing was super weird. Just makes the whole thing a dirt catcher with a zillion failure points.
  • 1 0
 @CarbonShmarbon: the finish is actually quite smooth. I've seen one in the flesh, you can't feel the tooling paths. I've also worked with other machining processes and you can have visible tooling paths and not be able to feel anything.
  • 2 0
 @CarbonShmarbon: Machining time. If they changed from what I assume is 1mm step over to .1mm stepover that would leave a smooth finish, but would also take 10x longer to machine. The retail of the frame would be way to expensive to be competitive.
  • 1 1
 @CaSentLeTabarnakMonHomme: Well, if I could afford a P-train, I would buy it in a heartbeat
  • 1 1
 Downhill is where it’s at!
  • 1 0
 ohh that whole article and comment section was such a joy to read
  • 1 6
flag Cheddar420 (Apr 18, 2024 at 3:16) (Below Threshold)
 @Stredda: if they have a good quality product they don't need iterative design after the product is on the market.

They could machine their molds for the price of 1 damned frame and make 1000bikea faster.
  • 1 0
 And then PB gave their bike a pretty lackluster review in last year’s field test.
  • 2 0
 @Stredda: Banshee manages to have a ton of hydro forming and forgings. They attempt to offset by using as much automated welding as they can. And probably accepting lower margins.
  • 35 4
 Nobody should be celebrating the demise of a bike brand at the moment, especially one that pushed the envelope in more ways than one. Pole broke ground in a lot of areas even if they were necessarily my cuppa.
  • 7 0
 who's celebrating?
  • 7 1
 @WillW123: A small number of the comments here are not exactly sympathetic, more of a schadenfreude tone simply because they didn't like their design. Its infantile, but that's the internet for you.
  • 1 1
 @WillW123: a handful of people had a lousy experience with the brand or its personnel - as with any brand. Those are the grave dancers.
  • 28 2
 I can't say I'm surprised. I ordered a voima last November with 3 weeks delivery showing on the website. 5 months later no bike and I'm being ignored. I had to threated them with legal to get a refund a few weeks ago. Yet the website still said 3 weeks for delivery if you order a bike. Very shady and it was obvious they had cash flow problems. Damn Im feeling very lucky today I was refunded. I expect many people have lost thousands.
  • 13 1
 Glad you got your refund mate, the bike media tends to put a positive spin on dodgy characters like this and ignore punters being left out of pocket.
  • 1 0
 I mean, it's only two that I know of, but GG did the same thing with their website after they clearly were not a company.
  • 2 0
 That sounds Sick
  • 24 0
 I'll never forget when I "added suspension" to my blue Taival over the winter. Ok maybe I sold it and bought an evolink in the same color but the wife wasn't as accepting of the bike nonsense back then lol...
  • 6 0
 Funny I have the same problem, I just buy bikes in the same color..lol
  • 1 0
 @freeridact: I once had a open mold gravel frame painted in similar colors and pattern to my previous gravel bike.
  • 6 0
 Lmaooo... did you genuinely pull this ruse off unscathed?
  • 1 0
 @JakeMartell: I used that ruse for a few years (ordering bikes in black, much easier) but ended up busted when wife realized the sticker on the side was different.
  • 2 0
 @JakeMartell: indeed. I really only outed myself on the state of affairs when I listed the machine for sale to fund the next project
  • 35 9
 Breaks my heart, seems like they just cracked under the pressure.
  • 19 0
 Got to ride a friends Stamina 180 on a big alpine ride with a sick, extended downhill section. Other than having DH casing tires going uphill at 12,000’, it was super efficient, comfortable on the up, and it handled the chunk nicely with amazing balance and cornering traction. It was a truly unique bike in very good ways. Sad to see them Finnished.
  • 16 1
 This is just too bad. Super nice group who pushed new ideas and challenged us to think outside the box. I remember just how cool their bikes were at Sea Otter some years ago. Who could have seen this coming? The challenges of the last few years has really taken its toll on the industry. Too many used bikes without enough reasons to buy new ones is a recipe for disaster.
  • 6 4
 Who could see this coming? Literally anyone that watches pinkbike snap a frame, which itself not the end of the world , but then, Leo's response? If you bought a bike from his company you got more money than sense.

It was painfully obvious this was coming. Surprised it didn't happen faster.
  • 15 2
 I would like to thank Leo and Pole for introducing the long and slack concept with steep seat tube to the biking world. I remember around 2017 most other brands were still producing bikes with old school geos. When Pole introduced their first bike a lot of people were pretty much laughing at it. Now after 7 years other brands have slowly moved to the new school geo. I guess being an innovator you have to be prepared to take shit from people...
  • 15 0
 They have some new adhesive on the way. Gonna put the halves back together.
  • 15 2
 Love them or hate them, but Pole and Leo have easily been some of the most important actors in MTB innovation for the last 10 years. I've followed them from almost the beginning, and I'm really sad to see them go.
  • 17 3
 White flag waving on the end of the Pole
  • 1 0
 they had a long desire to reach greatness
  • 13 0
 Not unlike their frames, they decided to split. On to brewing craft beer or making scented candles.
  • 13 0
 Just taking a quick Pole, is Kona next?
  • 1 0
 Spot me five minutes, I have to cook up some Alchemy to see if I can think of any others.
  • 27 15
 crazy that 100000mm wheelbases didn’t sell
  • 17 2
 You mean that they made a bike with 2024 geo back 2017? Yeah that is stupid thing to do. Better to just make small changes that is mostly just a good thing for pouring out new products and with no real innovation.
  • 2 1
 @PerNyberg1Bn: I really thought the grim donut would stop people from "innovationing"
  • 3 5
 @PerNyberg1Bn: name one 2024 bike with that geo.
  • 9 2
 EVERY modern trail/AM bike is settling around 64.5* head angles, 78* seat angles, and there's been a recent push of longer chain stays. You're being dense if you can't see that Pole made a bike with 2024 geo back 2017 (2016!).
  • 2 5
 @bishopsmike: Haha, youre dense if you think bikes today have 10000000mm wheelbases like Pole
  • 6 0
 @bishopsmike: Pretty sure Geometron has done the same thing, with no broken bikes, adjustable geo, and a progressive rear suspension design.
  • 3 1
 @SunsPSD: Absolutely, I'm not saying Pole was alone by any stretch. Just saying that people that bought early Nicolai and Pole bikes got a great product, and have been having fun watching other brands take 3 or 4 refreshes to arrive at the same result.

I'm also pointing out that @2004 is a tool
  • 1 2
 @bishopsmike: haha man sorry I offended you with my comment about their ridiculous wheel bases! Still waiting for you to show me a 2024 bike in a comparable size with the same wheelbase
  • 1 2
 @bishopsmike Was gonna if you were a pole stakeholder or even Leo’s burner account. Then saw your ride, makes sense, sorry you no longer get warranty support, sure hope you don’t need it…
  • 8 0
 I think there a lot of mtb companies who might be going the same way. Unfortunately.

i loved the look of Pole bikes and as much as i hope the team all dont suffer too much and get jobs asap.

from reading on line there are quite a few people who have sent money (and they are still taking orders on site it seems like, how can that be if they cant afford components according to leo on that video?) who will be shitting bricks at the mo, i hope they get sorted asap as well.

This is one of the reasons i wont send a small fortune to a lot of these companies tbh.
  • 8 0
 It is advisable to pay with a credit card for things like this, because if you do you can recover the funds from your credit card provider, even if something happens to the company. You get much stronger consumer protection, whereas if you wire the money or pay on a debit card your deposit is likely toast
  • 3 0
 @tom666: that's fine and you are right but surely they shouldn't be selling shit still or taking orders from people? It sure seems like you can, on their site.
  • 3 0
 @WkDayWarrior: Agree, if they're insolvent they should cease trading asap and not take more of anybody's money. My statement was more general, that when you pay a deposit (or even pay up front) for something built-to-order like a custom bike, I would pay on a CC
  • 3 3
 @WkDayWarrior: but that would mean being an actual good person which we have enough evidence to suggest the contrary with poles leadership
  • 1 0
 I've bought from small companies like this before and in every case they take a small deposit, then you pay the rest right before it ships. If they were asking for the full payment to reserve a slot, then that's a bit different than what other similar brands do (Starling, REEB, Geometron).
  • 1 0
 @tom666: As far as I can tell, the most generous time limit for chargebacks is 120 days. So if you wait too long, you could be screwed.
  • 1 0
 @tom666: is it you Martin Lewis? You ride?
  • 11 0
 Welcome to the "party".
- GG customer
  • 5 0
 I didn't really like the bikes' overly-progressive geometries, I didn't like the bikes' looks and I've never been fond of Leo's attitude but man I'm bummed to see them failing. True innovators and forward thinkers. Hopefully, they'll find a way to get back on their feet.
  • 5 0
 I feel like they were finding solutions to problems most riders weren't having and spending a lot of money and using a tonne of aluminum in the process. What made these that much better than a Raaw? I don't like seeing a company of people who had a dream not succeed, but it's a crowded market and most people just want things that are more typical. They had a decent run. Plus, what most companies are doing produce bikes that leverage past processes and efficiency and end up satisfying almost everyone. Pole to me always seemed to be looking for the most complex route to get to their destination, which is not the best way to profitibility, which is. necessary evil.
  • 10 5
 Shit like this is why I've given up buying from boutique bike companies. Go generic, big company, with a solid warranty (preferably with owners listed on a stock exchange somewhere).
  • 3 0
 It's a roll of the dice either way. In my experience, you are far more likely to have a large brand shaft you on a warranty claim than a small one. Most small brands will go out of their way to help you if you need anything, whereas larger ones just don't care and leave you hanging with a bunch of broken stuff and no recourse. I've largely bought from small companies in the last 4 years and not a single one has gone out of business, but I've had warranty claims I know a larger company would tell me to pound sand on and the smaller brands came through every time, sometimes exceptionally so. The likelihood of them going out of business is still very low even in todays environment. These things tend to happen due to mismanagement more than anything, especially coming out of the bike boom, and it's possible but I wouldn't use Pole and GG as examples for this, particularly the latter. Either way, it's far less likely than you breaking something and a large company telling you they aren't helping you, something I've had happen repeatedly.
  • 4 0
 my machine will have a place on my office's wall when it's toast! until that happens it will make the the happiest mountainbiker on earth. Fingers crossed fro all people at POLE that have lost their jobs and for all those customers that have pending orders.
  • 1 0
 @teddy89
Thanks for this. I just got a Sonni in March and it absolutely rips. I’m gonna do the same thing.
  • 4 0
 Bummer. They were...polarizing...but the evolink was the one of the best riding bikes I ever had, and I do regret selling it. I know they weren't the first to push long and slack with steep seat angles, but they certainly helped modern bike geometry get to where it is today.
  • 7 0
 Guess they couldn’t get their sales up
  • 7 0
 Total bummer. Seems like Kona will be next.
  • 4 1
 Pole genuinely did things differently, in a back drop of often boring beige normality. It's really a blow to us all to lose such a figuratively colorful brand.
That said, there will be a few smirks among those who dealt with Leo directly, who was known for being, err "controversial" in his customer service manner
  • 4 1
 Very sad news… I own a Vikkelä, which is a really unique and fantastic bike. The worst part imho is that, unfortunately, the vision of producing the bike (design, build the frame) completely in Europe has failed in this instance. Good luck to everyone at Pole.
  • 3 0
 I would have bought a Pole frame for 1500 euro, but not 3000. I even asked if Pole could go down in price. Instead I spent 1300 euro on customizing a used Marino instead. Very glad I did, the frame is insane. Geo is a mix between Pinkbike’s Grim Donut V1 and Paul Astons bikes. Coming in at a slender 17.8kg.
  • 3 0
 The really sad part of this is the people who were allowed to order and paid for bikes that will not be delivered and will have to fight to get their money back. So many people purchased with bank transfer as opposed to credit card. Unlikely they will ever see satisfaction.
  • 2 0
 Yikes
  • 5 0
 It never ceases to amaze me how many people in the PB comments will trash a brand when it's riding high, then all of the "aw, that's too bad" crowd comes out when they fail.
  • 2 0
 Yeah the top comment is a bunch of crap, everyone shit on Pole when the bike broke which surely tarnished their reputation, and now this...
  • 3 0
 From my scan of these comments, everyone who rides or rode Pole likes riding Pole. People who have not ridden Pole think that Pole is ugly, or it is possible that they are intimidated by the length of the Pole. Guess we’ll never know.

What’s pleasing to the eye is not always pleasing to the touch.
  • 6 2
 Some trendy brand needs to buy the patents and such. Not like silly specialized and hasnt brought out the trust fork….. wheres the trust specialized fork specialized!
  • 6 0
 What patents does Pole have?
  • 1 1
 @TheRamma: hahaha ‍♂️
  • 5 3
 @hece: how the f*ck he get a patent on machining aluminum
  • 3 1
 Don't be surprised if this is just the first domino to fall... the industry leaned into the covid boom too hard overall and economies in general are in a precarious position from the amount of currency printed over he last few years. Gonna be some rough roads ahead for a whole lot of brands.
  • 8 2
 It's Pole. This isnt trek or specialized.

The writing has been on the wall for years. Leo is a bad leader. Making custom one off parts and not charging for them is a great way to go out of business lickity split.

Also something people don't want to admit : selling bikes to people who abuse them isn't where the money is. You can't warranty that and be lucrative. The money is selling commercially viable bikes to people that use them 3-5 times a year and replaces the bike instead of performing maintenance. this is specialized and trek. Even small brands like devinci recognize this.

There's no money in people riding hard for bike manufacturers.
  • 3 0
 Agreed bblb
  • 1 0
 @Cheddar420: this is a great point
  • 2 1
 @Cheddar420: And before Pole, it was GG... there's a lot more to it than hating on Leo or chalking it up to hard riders riding hard. There's a reason that Specialized and Trek, and everyone else, are blowing out bikes at massive discounts right now; to recoup some of their capital investment before the bottom falls out and buyers disappear.
  • 2 1
 @badbadleroybrown: GG same exact problem. Focusing on a niche product in a single market instead of a broader audience.

I'm not happy to see the companies close and leave customers in the lurch. But it is what it is. These brands aren't focused/capable on getting distribution on the level of the big brands. Brands like revel seem to understand how to get bikes into markets at reasonable pricing.

Revel isn't immune to the same downturn, but they are going to be more resistant just due to the fact they aren't an American centric or euro centric bike co.
  • 1 0
 @Cheddar420: That's my point though... this isn't a Leo issue, it's a small brand issue. Companies can't enter the game with a full catalog of family bikes, road bikes, mountain bikes, e-bikes... and it's all those small brands that are gonna struggle.
  • 2 1
 @badbadleroybrown: no they cant enter a market with a full range so introduce bikes.in categories that sell not ones you have a passion for...drop a trail bike 120mm and a hard tail. Get them into markets and get production costs down to make that viable.

It's crazy to me that pole is machining aluminum frames instead of their own molds and pumping out dirt cheap to manufacture carbon frames. Hell he could he doing what the athertons are doing and gluing up lugged frames like it's 1980.

Machining aluminum is slow and expensive. Passion needs to take a backseat to profits. I respect poles approach to customer service, but custom fabbing parts and not charging? That's crazy.
  • 1 3
 @Cheddar420: You've got a really weird bone to pick with Pole for some reason... but you're literally the only person in this conversation discussing Pole. Atherton likely won't survive just as GG didn't survive, neither or which is doing custom fab parts and not charging or any of the other shit you're ranting about.

We get it, you don't like Pole... this isn't a Pole issue though, it's a basic business economics issue that's being compounded by historic levels of currency devaluation caused by nonstop money printing for the last 4 years or so. Pole isn't the first and won't be the last victim of this situation. The big boys will survive, but they'll feel the pain as well, and already are in fact.
  • 3 1
 @badbadleroybrown: my bad for discussing the company that is the subject of the article.

Jesus kids today are soft AF.

Let's discuss completely unrelated companies in different markets. It's def coming for the athertons. Who could literally start printing titanium for anyone to keep their business afloat, something in super high demand. And their expenses are WAAY too high with off the shelf carbon parts..
  • 1 1
 @Cheddar420: you're not discussing anything except your lack of reading comprehension and your hard on for "Leo"...

Discuss whatever the f*ck you want, my comment had nothing to do with anything you're discussing so take your discussion elsewhere... and yeah, you kids are soft as f*ck, and dumb as f*ck. Go have a sook and a cry about Leo, and then find someone who gives a f*ck about your ignorance, but that ain't me.

Bonus dumbf*ck points for unironically contradicting yourself in consecutive posts though, that was good for a chuckle.

"he could be doing what the athertons are doing and gluing up lugged frames like it's 1980"

"It's def coming for the atherton"
"And their expenses are WAAY too high with off the shelf carbon parts"

lol
  • 1 1
 @badbadleroybrown: damn a lil fired up there eh lil guy?

Imagine that, the dude who's trying to fight with someone on the internet, doesn't understand sarcasm. Or when he's being made fun of.

Ok let's discuss everyone but pole in a pole article.
  • 1 1
 @Cheddar420: tell me more about how soft you kids are... calling you out for being a dumbf*ck isn't trying to fight you, you unbelievable pussy.

But sure, go on and tell us more about how Leo f*cked your girl and you're mad or whatever your Pole issue is, no really, I care so much about your opinion.
  • 1 1
 @badbadleroybrown: just drop it dude. You're out of your element Donnie
  • 1 1
 @Cheddar420: take your own advice cupcake...

You responded to a comment about the larger economic issues being faced by small brands with a single sided diatribe about Leo... you were never even in your element kid. Go play Roblox or whatever children like you are into these days.
  • 1 1
 @badbadleroybrown: man you are so mad that I don't agree with you. Lol. It's kind of wild. No wonder you but cases shoot up schools. You can't take a extremely minor disagreement without turning into a troglodyte.

Listen here lil critter you aren't intimidating or scary. You are trying to be tough on the internet. There's literally, not figuratively, nothing more pathetic than a dude frothing at the mouth over a comment.

I'm making fun of you. Stop giving me fuel you fool
  • 1 1
 @Cheddar420: are you actually retarded, or is this just a role play thing you do online?

You're not making anyone mad, and nobody is trying to intimidate you... you're not making fun of anyone.... you're just a joke. You went from barely coherent ranting about "Leo" like you're first name bros with the dude from Pole to something about school shootings and people trying to fight you, you're just highlighting what an epidemic mental illness is among kids these days. Talk to your parents, talk to your guidance counselor, get help lil guy.
  • 1 1
 @badbadleroybrown: the thing is I didn't rant about Leo one time.

Yet here you are defending his honor. He has an account, he's a grown man, he can defend himself if he feels the situation warrants it. Maybe he'll wife you up.

Right now you acting like a swifty for a bicycle brand. You're nuts. Unhinged. Why so mad is only game
  • 1 1
 @badbadleroybrown: wait....I'm just realizing you're the guy I had to explain basic market principles too..... Is that what you are mad about? You can't understand how getting products into different markets and dealing with that headache as a company,instead of passing that onto the consumer, is beneficial and contributes to staying power in the industry.

Like I legit don't know. I didn't rant a out Leo. Or attack him personally. I said he's a bad leader. That's just factually accurate by the history of Pole. It's not even controversial to most people.

Pole couldn't get bikes to people because their production methodology was dumb. Deal with it. Grow up.

Who's the other small brand suffering this problem that isn't doing exactly the same business strategy as Pole? GG? The guys paying barrelli to market their bikes in a country where they don't have distribution?
  • 1 0
 @Cheddar420: I've never defended Leo once and don't know the first thing about the guy... again, and you're really having a tough time grasping this, my comment had nothing to do with Pole or Leo and was about the larger economic issues facing these small brands... which is why it was so weird for you to respond talking about Leo being a bad leader and being bad at business. I know you're all the way in the back of the short bus, but try and follow along.

And no, you've never explained anything to me, and you still aren't making anyone mad... you're a comically ignorant, mentally unstable, fool and all you're doing is showing your ass. Seriously, get help kid... you're obviously desperate for attention and really need someone to talk to who'll at least pretend to give a f*ck about you, go get some help.
  • 1 1
 @badbadleroybrown: right... I'm still trying to figure out what you are mad about.

Of course the guy telling people to "get help" is the guy playing the tough guy schtick. Calling people pussys and defending another man's honor. Youve never defended him once? It's all you have been doing? Doing your best " leave Britney alone!!!" Lol calling others unstable and you can't even stay on a topic you're so mad.

You still can't tell me what small brands are going through the same thing as pole. Kona? Not exactly a small brand.

It's funny everytime a small poorly ran company goes out of business there's people like you that constantly rail about how everyone is closing their doors tomorrow.

So how about it? What other brands are going out of business tomorrow because pole can't sell bikes?
  • 1 0
 @Cheddar420: I have no doubt that the list of things you're "still trying to figure out" is nearly endless but... go ahead and quote where I said a single positive thing about Leo or Pole... or defended them in any way. The closest I came to defending them was merely acknowledging that there's a lot more to their failure than you hating on Leo or catering to hard riders riding hard.

Next, go ahead and quote where I said any other brand was going out of business tomorrow or anything close to that.

You're all over the place dude, from a weird hard-on for Leo to school shootings to people trying to fight you to thinking you matter enough to random people online to make them mad... you've been off topic since your first comment bro, and have never come close to getting on topic. We just saw GG meet the same fate, and with the economic climate we're gonna see this hit every brand to varying degrees. The "topic" is simple... as I said from the start, don't be surprised if Pole is just the next domino to fall and it's gonna be rough roads ahead for a whole lot of brands.

I guess we can definitively say the whole retard role isn't just a role play thing you do online... it's a lifestyle that you're deeply committed to. Get help little guy.
  • 1 1
 @badbadleroybrown: right you completely ignore the part about them sending out custom fabbed parts for free... Overnight.

Do you have any clue what that costs?

Conveniently ignore the part that doesn't fit your ridiculous rhetoric.

And here's the ableist nonsense because you can't win an argument. I've legitimately never seen someone lash out like this over such a benign comment.

Learn to control your emotions bud. This has gotten to the point where it's just sad now. I won't respond further you can continue frothing because I said something negative about Leo that you don't care about? I guess? Nonsense. You don't even have a freaking point. Guerilla gravity is all you got. A company that paid yoanne a bunch of bikes and bucks to ride and promote in a country they have distribution to sell bikes.

You are right though the entire industry is for sure heading for major collapse because 2 poorly run companies with unorthodox costly manufacturing methods went out of business.

You're such a sharp mind I'm sure you will go far in life. All the best.
  • 1 0
 @Cheddar420: I'm not ignoring anything, you're ignoring the part about me not f*cking talking about Pole... you're the only one here jerking off over a particular company lil guy. Nukeproof, Vitus, GG... Pole is not the first company facing issues, they won't be the last, and all your insane ranting about custom made parts and "Leo" don't change that, they just show that you're mentally unstable and desperately in need of help. You're the only person here "getting emotional"... you're emotional about "Leo", about Pole, about me telling you you're too retarded to comprehend that you're way the f*ck off topic. You're literally an emotional wreck at this point and I have zero emotional investment in any part of this conversation. There are market conditions facing all bike companies right now that are going to be a huge problem for all brands, and not all brands have the war chest built up to survive the storm. You don't have to like that reality, you don't even need to accept that reality, but it remains the reality and all your rage at Pole doesn't change it one bit.

Get off the internet, talk to your therapist or talk to your parents about getting you a therapist, and get some f*cking help... you're an absolute mess lil dude.
  • 4 2
 Taking bids from companies to pay me not to want their bike. My next bike was going to either be a pole or a Vitus, depending on budget at the time. It's like the time I got the (old) raceface logo tattooed on the back of my neck, and they announced bankruptcy before it had even healed.

Tl;Dr: I'm cursed and shouldn't set my sights on any brand.
  • 2 0
 Damn, how about a Canyon or YT? Surely you can’t take those either of brands down
  • 1 0
 @Murphius: I can't bring myself to want a bike I know would snap lol
  • 4 0
 The classic comments, everyone slams the design when they aren’t going out of business, then once they are they are called ‘true innovators’
  • 4 0
 I think in about 100 years all cyclists will bouild their own bicycles, from scrap...
  • 1 0
 Can't wait!!!
  • 3 1
 Maybe in the current market an ultra expensive aerospace grade manufacturing method is the best business model? Is anybody making bikes using affordable techniques or is that considered "cringe" by the current generation?
  • 2 0
 A real shame, the Machine and Stamina were beautiful but you have to wonder if the looks of the latest bikes were the killer, shows you can be as innovative and functional as you like but looks sell.
  • 2 1
 They were always a brand I kinda coverted, paved the way for a lot of what you see these days (albeit better packaged) from the bigger companies.

Leo could ride too, but often these guys dont do well with the 'customer facing/front of house' stuff.

Best of luck to all involved.
  • 2 1
 Such a shame, really liked the look of their bikes, which i guess is the Poler opposite of most here. There should be a Pole about which manufacturer will be next to go tits up, but that will cause massive Polerization.with PinkBike users i think.
  • 1 0
 That sucks. I can’t help but wonder how much planned obsolescence is factoring into these situations. There was a period of time where it felt like bike companies were colluding to make incremental iguana in geometry, suspension design, etc. It seems that inertia has slowed, decreasing the incentive. for consumers to upgrade. In other words; are people happy with what they have and will keep it longer.
  • 3 0
 I'm stealing Incremental Iguana as a band/beer name.
  • 5 2
 sad to see companies go but overpriced bikes from Europe means no one in the west hemisphere riding your bikes
  • 3 1
 There is truth to this. Maybe not overpriced, but just more expensive, though.
  • 2 1
 Yea to get a full assembled bike from Europe has insane duties in Canada. Might as well double the price.
  • 2 0
 There is at least a dozen or so Pole bikes I've seen in Ottawa, not exactly a mtb metropolis.
  • 2 0
 I've only seen a few of their bikes in the wild but owners seem to love them. And I've got to admit, they look impressive from up close. Wish them well.
  • 2 0
 I don't know if I would have bought one, but I sure as can appreciate someone doing something differently. Hope it's a soft landing, if possible.
  • 1 1
 Damn I hate to see that happen, they where at the beginning of the much needed geometry overhaul a few years ago.

When I was deciding on an ebike it was between theirs and the Levo.
Their change from Brose to the Bosch motor made me buy the Levo and now I’m glad warranty wise..
  • 3 0
 Love my Taival... so sad to see this happen. Great company and great bikes.
  • 2 0
 Really liked the innovation of Pole bikes and the C3PO was super cool, always looked forward to seeing them at Crankworks. Sad to see it end.
  • 1 0
 Here is a greatly narrowed list. I took off about 70 brands and we are still over 100
docs.google.com/document/d/e/2PACX-1vQNLSoxqC8yH5fW8VACzBlSFAMsoBVsFAg3mdts-kEP-9Kq4Ivj1VrWwYA4Q7Es-n1zcF_Izzow_cuI/pub
  • 4 0
 Breaking news
  • 3 0
 Love and regularly ride my Taival. Sad to see this.
  • 1 2
 I always thought of Pole as a really cool brand. I could never afford to purchase on myself but I spent a great deal of time dinking around on their website looking at the different builds and how the bikes were made. Even though they had a different look, or should I say a wild look? They were still incredibly innovative and just cool. I understand the negative comments talking about their looks and how they were never a massive contender in the MTB market but for the people looking for something special, cool, unique, and shiny this was an incredible option! I hope that they can find a way to sort this all out and that everyone can just stop with the stabs talking about how bad the market is right now. It's bad and it's sad to see brands going but that's just how it is. Anyways, thanks Pole for shaking up the industry a bit and for just doing rad stuff, hope you can find a way to continue to create wild bikes! Cheers
  • 2 0
 It's a shame the Voima has been on my shortlist for an ebike for awhile now.
  • 1 0
 I saw the vid of the owner explaining the decision. It sounded like they were always in the red, not a good way to run a business.
  • 2 0
 We're now down to about 175 MTB companies (frame builders who make non-e-bike full suspension mtbs). I keep the list...
  • 3 1
 Oh wow! What an amazing company ??
  • 3 0
 Pole-offs incoming
  • 2 0
 Can’t figure out where to log in on their website to purchase bicycle?
  • 3 0
 See what you all did!
  • 4 2
 Statement from Leo here youtu.be/COqr3TXtW40
  • 9 2
 Typical Leo, blames everything apart from his leadership. Knowing him personally, I am not surprised by the announcement. I feel bad for the Pole employees left in limbo by this.
  • 2 1
 this was on the other site ages ago about their situation. old news, but now public bankrupt.
  • 3 0
 Only the good die young.
  • 1 0
 another bike brand bites the dust very sad news . who next to eat the biscuit >?
  • 1 0
 lets be real, performance aside the bike looks like a niche product only a few people would wanna ride
  • 2 0
 Pole Bicycle Company Oy
  • 2 0
 Pore Bike company
  • 1 0
 Hope their gonna be one Tenacious P.
  • 1 0
 Sadface. They even made a yellow fatbike, a brand going after my own heart
  • 2 0
 If you can find a Surly Ice Cream Truck from 2017, those were yellow.
  • 1 0
 sic transit gloria mundi....
  • 1 0
 True
  • 1 0
 Huck to Flat Broke (in more ways than one)
  • 1 0
 Orange....and now Pole. Hmmmm? What could be the issue?
  • 1 0
 Orange are back up and running that seemed to be a restructuring deal. I would be genuinely worried about Kona
  • 1 0
 So it's all came unglued at pole.
  • 1 0
 I did not CNC this coming.
  • 1 1
 Spin the ebike into a cash cow
  • 4 6
 This is such a shame but the only way for MTB to survive these peaks and troughs is to shrink down to 5 big companies. It happened to car makers. It'll happen to bikes.
  • 5 0
 You sure? I mean, the barrier to entry to the bike industry is just a touch lower than making cars
  • 2 0
 @chakaping: I agree with you both if that is possible,
I found this interesting.
Why So Many EV Companies Fail
youtu.be/G4d5yV2BXdI?si=624pEOlGBcbbcNDo
  • 2 1
 @chakaping: a) the car manufacturer shrinkage was in the 1970s when most parts where still manufactured in the same county the car was built. B) Are you sure? Do you have any idea how many suspension linkage patents there are? Why do you think standards are always changing? What is the minimum order from a Chinese frame manufacturer? How are you building the social media presence? Because even popular brands have a shockingly low number of subscribers. Why do you think we are seeing so many brands go under? It's because the revenue stream is too diverse and you need to shift volume to pay for all that marketing(sponsorships/ race teams/ social media coverage)
  • 2 0
 With Pole and Kona gone we're now down to about 175 full suspension frame builders (that we know of). I literally have a list.
  • 1 0
 @ksilvey10: surely that’s about 175 full-sus brands? How many actual manufacturers are there?
  • 2 0
 @threehats: docs.google.com/document/d/1vcwLBCpS4t89gUnkGrINlGweUBES7BEiU4KNxF5C6vg/edit

judge for yourself. many are very small, but there are still a ton of "big" brands
  • 1 0
 @threehats: i might make a separate list with only the "legit" (as in, you've seen reviews on the web) brands
  • 2 0
 @ksilvey10: sorry, what I was meaning is that most bike brands do design and marketing but don’t actually make the frames. Merida and Giant being two large exceptions,
  • 2 0
 @threehats: My bad. I definitely misunderstood
  • 1 0
 shame
  • 1 1
 Effing sad to see, to such a innovative group of cool people.
  • 1 0
 NOOOO
  • 1 0
 soooo sad!
  • 1 0
 Now Kona... Who is next?
  • 1 0
 Fox
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