Field Test: Affordable Trail Bikes - Canyon Spectral AL vs Ibis Ripmo AF

Jan 6, 2020
by Richard Cunningham  


Back by popular demand, Pinkbike's 2020 Field Tests include four affordable trail bikes this year - two remarkably priced hardtails from Specialized and Marin reviewed by Daniel Sapp, and a pair of dual-suspension machines from Ibis and Canyon that you'll learn about here.

To earn a spot in this feature, our test bikes had to cost less than $3,000 USD, perform at a level that would impress experienced riders, and be equipped with components that could go the distance without requiring pricey upgrades. That's a lot to ask from a bike that retails for half the price of an elite-level trail bike, but last year's Field Test contenders managed to work that miracle - so we raised the bar for 2020.

We wanted a needs-nothing trail shredder, armed with aggressive numbers and spec'ed so well that it would make a convincing argument against spending a penny more in the quest for measurable performance. Two contenders stepped forward: the $2899 Canyon Spectral AL 6.0 and the $2,999 Ibis Ripmo AF. Let's find out who made the cut.






Canyon Spectral AL 6.0: $2899

Canyon's advantage in the affordable end of the marketplace comes from their direct sales business model. The German brand can (and does) redirect a substantial portion of the cash it saves from cutting out retailers from its expense column into better parts and frame construction.

Their Spectral AL 6.0 is a shining example, beginning with its SRAM GX Eagle 12-speed drivetrain, Fox 36 Rhythm fork, and DPX2 shock, its component selection is next level for this price point. Cockpit items are carefully selected from Canyon-branded items and established names like SDG, which gives the Spectral a pro feel the moment you step into the office.
Spectral AL 6.0 Details

Construction: aluminum, Horst-Link type suspension, 150mm travel .
Wheel size: 27.5"
Geometry: (med.) Head angle: 66º, seat angle: 74.5º, reach: 440mm, chainstay: 430mm
Sizes:XS,SM, Med, L, XL
Suspension: 160mm Fox 36 Rhythm fork, DPX-2 Performance shock
Key Components: SRAM GX Eagle 12-Speed, Guide R brakes (200mm rotors), 150mm dropper post
Contact: Canyon

Aluminum is the frame material of choice here, and for good reason. The Spectral is targeted at riders with the highest aspirations, so it's going see a lot of challenging terrain during its turn on earth. In the German tradition, the chassis is built stiff and sturdy, with a 150mm-travel Horst-Link type rear suspension that drives a downtube-mounted shock. There's plenty of room for a bottle in the frame, and Canyon designed in lots of standover clearance and room for longer travel dropper posts.

Canyon's numbers are good. The 74.5º seat tube is just steep enough to call modern, and it sports a 66º head tube angle. Reaches range from 400mm to 482mm between five sizes (XS through XL)

SRAM's Eagle GX drivetrain is a huge plus at this MSRP.
...As is its Fox 36 Rhythm fork with the GRIP damper.

What it Does Best

One ride and you'll understand the Spectral is all about attitude. Its suspension delivers more trail feedback than I would like, but the flip side is how precise it feels while jumping or setting up for corners. The rigid aluminum chassis keeps the bike on line when you are banging over roots and rubble too. That racey feel, however, can bite you when rain and sludge grease up trail features, which occasionally had me wishing for more sensitivity. That said, Canyon's Spectral AL 6.0 feels fast and aggressive - tailor-made for hard chargers who push and pump every trail feature. It's a massive amount of bike for $2,900.





Ibis Ripmo AF: $2,999

Ibis' Ripmo AF is the right bike at the right time - an affordable, needs-nothing trail shredder with front-line geometry that is an absolute blast to ride on anything from mild to wild. The original carbon-framed Ripmo was the breakthrough design that catapulted Ibis into the "long, low and slack" trail bike arena. The subsequent release of the aluminum-framed Ripmo AF broke the rules.

Metal versions of carbon super bikes are supposed to be affordable duplications. The Ripmo AF defies its predecessor with improved suspension kinematics, more aggressive geometry, and killer builds that start at under three grand - about what it would cost you to buy the carbon Ripmo's frame and shock.
Ripmo AF Details

Construction: Aluminum, dw-Link suspension, 147mm travel.
Wheel size: 29"
Geometry: (medium) Head angle: 64.9º, seat angle: 76º, reach: 458mm, BB height: 341mm, chainstay: 435mm
Sizes: S, Med, L, XL
Suspension: 160mm DVO Diamond fork (44mm offset), DVO Topaz R3 shock
Key Components: SRAM NX Eagle 12-Speed, Ibis S35 aluminum wheels, Maxxis Assegai EXO2.5" tires, 150mm dropper post
Contact: Ibis Cycles

Did Ibis shoot itself in the foot? We don't think so. Accomplished bike-handlers need the elevated performance that elite-level mountain bikes provide, and if we won the lottery, we'd all be riding superbikes. Ibis made the Ripmo AF for the rest of us. Starting with a slightly overbuilt chassis (8 pounds they tell us), the AF's dw-Link four-bar suspension has been tweaked with a rising rate near the end-stoke to ease huck to flat episodes. Its top tube has been lengthened, and its head tube angle has dropped from 66- to 64.9-degrees. There's plenty of reach and the cockpit feel is balanced and aggressive.

Ibis and DVO collaborated on the suspension and it's next level anywhere near this price.
Maxxis' Assegai tires are a welcome site at this pricepoint.

Ibis took a left turn on the suspension, opting for DVO's butter smooth air-sprung 160mm-stroke Diamond fork and Topaz R3 reservoir shock - both of which bring next-level performance to the affordable realm. Reinforcing that decision are its ultra capable 2.5-inch Maxxis Assegai EXO+ tires, mounted to Ibis' new S35 aluminum wheels. It's clear that Ibis put its big money into the AF's critical performance items, so we assume they picked SRAM's Eagle NX drivetrain and Guide R brakes to bring proven, four-piston stoppers and a reliable 12-speed transmission to the table without breaking the bank. The magic worked. We had to pry the Ripmo AF out from under anyone who threw a leg over it.

What it Does Best

"Everything." During the Field Tests in Whistler, I took the Ripmo AF to the park, did some Lost Lake XC laps, put down runs on techy classics like Dark Crystal and Ride Don't Slide, and wasted a lot of play time on flow trails. It's one of the most enjoyable, easy handling trail bikes I've had the pleasure to ride. It climbs, corners, jumps and drops like an extension of your body. We switched bikes often, especially while filming, and everyone was visibly faster, happier, and more confident aboard the AF. Last year, if a unicorn slid down a bolt of lightning and told me $3,000 dollars would buy a bike like this, I would have laughed. Ibis easily won this round of PB's affordable trail bike Field Tests.





309 Comments

  • 214 5
 I want to commend Richard Cunningham’s review. The cadence of his speech, his enthusiasm, the information, and his riding capability make me want to share this review with many friends that are cyclist but haven’t stepped through the door into mountain biking as of yet.

This is a great piece that expands the mountain bike community through RC’s journalist style and the price point of the bikes in review.

Cheers
  • 10 120
flag duzzi (Jan 6, 2020 at 8:48) (Below Threshold)
 Cheaper bikes are very welcome! but just remember that this is not a review: it is a press release.
  • 23 1
 @duzzi: Don't all reviews function as press? Also he is critical of the bikes in this "Field Test." One is "better than the other," and he is critical of the component spec... Criticality = Review.

I think this piece opens doors, makes new buyers of full suspension mountain bikes feel less remorseful for an expensive purchase, and hopefully they can purchase bikes at a price point at which the bike won't fail on them as quickly.

But I can appreciate getting caught up in the semantics of the "field test."
  • 28 2
 This was the most surprisingly wholesome thing I've read on the internet today
  • 11 1
 This was a great review. Finally someone was not afraid to make a fair no bs comparison. There is no excuse in 2020 to make a fs bike which feel harsh over chunk, yet there are a lot of bikes with under-developed suspension out there.
  • 4 0
 This must have been made before he "retired"?
  • 37 1
 @twhart20 I was actually kind of sad watching it because it was so good both in topic and presentation/production and just knowing that RC is out of the game now. He will be missed! Maybe bring him back for the field tests each year? Thank you Richard! Enjoy your retirement.
  • 5 31
flag duzzi (Jan 6, 2020 at 15:46) (Below Threshold)
 @twhart20: You know, a review should keep the appearance of somebody actually taking a bike for a bit more than a photo spin somewhere. In time honored style that goes all the way back to Mountain Bike Action one instead gets a few photos (this time not even outdoors), some very vague details about where or when the bikes were ridden, a lot of even more vague adjectives ("this bike is about attitude") and lot of babbling about the components.

What's the point? You would get the same information if you went to the manufacturer sites!
  • 3 1
 Massive fail. Unicorns slide down rainbows not bolts of lightning.
  • 5 0
 I thought Richard retired and got an e-bike. What happened ?
  • 5 0
 I saw him filming on the bottom part of ride don't slide on the Ripmo. talked to him about it, and he was raving about the spec choice, before it was released in august. Really nice guy, knew his stuff, and is a great rider.
  • 2 0
 @lkubica: ive an older alu spectral and it definitely doesnt feel harsh. Not sure if its a tuning issue, or if newer ones are different. I found that odd.
In any case I welcome the AL bikes reviews. Honestly, we keep dreaming about the super bikes - but the cheap ones while a little less tunable and a little heavier are very close in performance while hurting the wallet a lot less.
  • 107 2
 Under $3,000... didn't break
  • 29 49
flag WAKIdesigns (Jan 6, 2020 at 8:23) (Below Threshold)
 It didn’t break because it doesn’t have lifetime warranty...
  • 7 0
 Gold review!
  • 42 3
 @focofox37 not only did the Ripmo AF not break...pretty sure it got a more glowing review than ANY other bike

except maybe the S works Enduro, which costs more than 3x more and while more capable, is less versatile

Ripmo AF got robbed on bike of the year.
  • 14 1
 @dontcoast: for me, budget bikes are always a win. I mean $10k+ on a bike, you're no pro... shut up and ride your bike
  • 6 0
 @dontcoast:

Don't take it away from Optic.
  • 10 0
 @T1kkaaja: Ripmo AF or Optic?
I know travel is slightly different but intent the same. If I had the cash I'm not sure which I'd go for.

RC head to head Optic/Ripmo please Smile
  • 5 0
 @T1kkaaja: True, very tough choice but if given the option, I think I'd personally go with the Ripmo AF.

It's just so badass.
  • 2 0
 @Chilliwacker:
Are they comparable though? Sight alloy vs ripmo af and I dunno..

New sight seems amazing, but late release means it missed reviews. I've ridden ibis and own a Norco. In summer if I can grab an af in SoCal I might since the base model is great bang for buck. New sight I'd want at least an A2 which is hold off until next fall. We'll see.
  • 6 0
 Confused why it didnt get bike of the year OR value bike of the year Frown #ripmogotrobbed
  • 2 0
 @Chilliwacker:

Ripmo, as I need Bikepark capable bike at this phase. If I wouldn't need to go with friends to bike parks, it would be Optic all the way.

But most likely I will go with Occam, Sight or Evolink 158. The last reseller for Ibis in Scandinavia went to bankruptcy, so it isn't even a choice for me.
  • 2 0
 @T1kkaaja: I'm between the Occam (H30 w/ DPX2 & MT501s) and Ripmo AF NX Coil myself. Both capable climbers, with the Ripmo sounding like it has the downhill edge. I've always rode for the downs, but I'm tempted again by a nimble low rolling resistance trail weapon for New England tech. I think I must demo...

The one thing I don't like about the Ripmo AF is that the downtube cable ports have no internal guides.
  • 7 1
 @iduckett: that’s the hoax of Short travel trend. You can turn Ripmo into fast rolling trail weapon for 100$ By buying fast rolling tires and then add 10psi in fork and shock instead of changing a whole bike.
  • 2 0
 @WAKIdesigns: Tires make a huge difference for sure, but it does sound like the Ripmo AF is a better downhill machine regardless.
  • 2 0
 @iduckett: For what it's worth, I bought an AF when it was first released and ride primarily New England tech. No rattling whatsoever. It was a bit of a PITA fishing the brake line through the frame, but not a big deal, and certainly a tiny consideration overall in terms of which bike to buy.
  • 2 0
 @VtVolk: Hear hear! I'm sure I'd be happy with either. Appreciate the feedback!
  • 98 4
 Forget these "affordable" bikes, Ibis needs to make a MORE expensive version of the Ripmo called the Richbro.

The Richbro's frame will be genuine, American-source carbon, made by American workers who can trace a direct ancestor to the Mayflower. Fabrication will happen so close to the Pacific Ocean that it can only happen at low tide. John Phillip Sousa marches will blare at earsplitting volume during the curing process.

And then issue an even more expensive, highly-limited edition called the Richbro AF. This one's still in the concept stage so not sure what sets the Richbro AF apart, but for a start I'm thinking we incorporate Elon Musk's finger and toenail clippings into the lay up ....
  • 5 0
 @TheBearDen: but I thought Elon Musk was from South Africa or something..
  • 11 0
 @Fullsend2-13: oh? Then Musk would be big mistake!

Zuckerberg"s wife probably shaves his back right? I wonder what the per pound rate is for those proprietary fibers ...
  • 14 0
 I've never been that guy who posts just to say "that was a really funny post bro" but....that was a really funny post, bro. "American workers who can trace a direct ancestor to the Mayflower" ha ha that's good stuff man.

Also sign me up for the Richbro - its getting almost impossible to impress anyone with a bike around the PNW anymore. I remember when a top spec bike was a real jaw dropping rarity, now its just a yawn when you see an Enve specc'ed Yeti.
  • 2 0
 Also needs a new standard anywhere a bearings exists. But made in USA, which gives it a pass.
  • 4 0
 It should have all Standard (Imperial, SAE, etc) hardware instead of Metric too. Because why not.
  • 55 3
 @ibiscycles please release a Ripley AF for those of us with a little less vertical. thanks much.
  • 19 0
 they mentioned they would consider it depending on the success of the RipmoAF, so i have no doubt we will be seeing one soon, can't wait.
  • 17 2
 If you were forced to buy a Ripmo AF, you wouldn't be missing much in terms of pedaling efficiency. Best climbing bike I've ever ridden, of any travel.
  • 6 1
 God yes. I’d buy one tomorrow if they did.
  • 3 1
 This!!! All day long I'd hoard pennies to get one!
  • 41 26
 Ummm....ironic they didn't mention the weight of the Ripmo AF. That bike weighs 34 POUNDS stock. In person, it looks awesome for sure. But it's $1000 more & 2 lbs heavier than my basic Process 153SE. Component spec on it is way, way better than mine, but it's crazy heavy!!!
  • 14 7
 @blowmyfuse: Yeah,just neg prop the man for stating a fact. The bike is heavy,with pedals and maybe a tire insert it will be over 35 pounds.
I was considering the AF for my next bike (can't afford carbon),but can't get my head around pedalling 16kg around all day.
I rode a Uzzi SLX back in the day,a heavy bike is not my thing.
  • 55 2
 @blowmyfuse: Now come on, you don't really expect an inexpensive bike to also win a weight weenie contest, do you?

Folks looking the Ripmo AF are interested in performance and price, the weight is the trade off.

Low Price
Low Weight
High Performance

Pick two.
  • 5 6
 @nozes: I actually latched onto a PB tester's coat tails on a day he was riding this very bike. Far younger and in better shape than me on a day he was pretty tired and taking it easy (had to wait on me several times) and the whole time I'm thinking:
"He's kicking my old butt on a 34lb bike with front and rear tires I'd have a hard time justifying the knob height of on my DH bike!"
I was thinking that if he were on my $2k 32lb rig & I on his, he would have had to just left me on the climb up since that extra weight and "wah wah wah" super tall knobby would have amplified my age and fitness shortcomings. But at the top I would have cooked a stupid fast time on his Ripmo AF down if I could have pried it from him. But dang...no way would I want to roll everywhere dragging that much bike. And just like you, I had an Intense Uzzi DH back in the day with a triple ring and lock out Stratos rear shock at 34lbs. That bike on trails other than STFD ones took the fun out of a day.
  • 12 19
flag blowmyfuse (Jan 6, 2020 at 8:39) (Below Threshold)
 @nurseben: It's not inexpensive. It's $3k and weighs much more than bikes in its price range. It would be a better comparison test if RC would let us know where the massive weight difference is between the 2 bikes.
They are laid out differently, they are completely different sized wheels and speced far different from each other, so I don't even really understand what puts these two bikes in the same article.

RipMo is a monster truck 29er. Spectral is awesome speced 27.5 trail bike. Pretty obvious to all that they would ride far different from one another.
  • 37 0
 @blowmyfuse: It is not the aluminum: bikes these days are HEAVY. An aluminum frame adds about one pound to the total. What makes bikes heavy is the rest. Bigger this and bigger that, shocks to forks to rims to wheels to tires to drive train to any other component and bingo: you are riding what was close to downhill bike weight in the past.
  • 36 3
 @blowmyfuse: I'd take dw link over konas single pivot setup any day.
  • 16 2
 @blowmyfuse: My SC megatower at more than twice the cost weighs a similar amount and I love the bike. The Remedy I was on before this bike was 36 lbs. The weight didnt bother me at all and I was able to do many all day rides with 18% grade climbs thrown in.
  • 4 1
 @nozes: honestly do a review of similar travel aluminum bikes. Which I’ve done and found the Ripmo, for the travel is absolutely competitive in weight beating out nearly everything, for example the similar spec’d transition sentinel is 1.6 lbs heavier
  • 17 1
 @duzzi: I think the NX cassette is a porker for sure.
  • 7 0
 @blowmyfuse: geometry and suspension > weight. If you want to spend money and reduce that weight you can, but the fundamentals are sorted and every review has stated it pedals great.
  • 20 1
 @nozes: Rider + bike + gear is around 200 lbs, often more. Even if the Ripmo AF dropped 4 lbs, that's 2% of total weight. That's the most it could possibly slow you down, even if there was no air resistance, rolling resistance, drivetrain friction, etc. It's more like 1% - and that's only on climbs or when accelerating. It's so much less than people think; we only get hung up on it because it's tangible on a shop floor and it's an easy stat to quantify.
  • 6 7
 @R-M-R: Not my particular case. 72kg,175cm.
I currently ride a 2014 Giant Trance,not a single carbon component on it,and it sits at 13,1kg with pedals.
I'm looking for a bike with a bigger "error margin",not necessary faster.
I could buy the Ripmo AF frame and build it somewhat lighter,but that would be very expensive.
Oh,and the "you'll get stronger" doesn't work here either.
  • 34 7
 @blowmyfuse: if you think 34 pounds is heavy, enduro is not the segment for you.

Enjoy your Lycra and energy gels
  • 14 11
 @R-M-R:

It's just same for runners: runner+ shoes is around 160 lbs. That means u could add 1 pound to each shoe and it would still be unnoticeable compared to the total weight.
  • 3 0
 @nozes: don't get this bike then, if you think it's too heavy. it's on the heavy side for aliminium enduro, but nothing to complain about.
  • 11 0
 For what it's worth, I own a Ripmo carbon and it weighs somewhere near 33. Now, thats with proper enduro tires (including Assegai on the front which this AF sports and is not light in any version it's sold) and a cush core in the rear. 2lbs. The difference in frame weight. So that's what we are talking about here, and I think it's a fair price to pay for $1200 difference between the two frames. Enduro bikes don't build light, especially with 29 wheels.
  • 1 1
 @splink-baller: You really don't know me at all. Hurts my feelings for you to even accuse me of bulging that spandex vibe. Heck...just to spite you I should try to find some that I could squeeze into. Pretty sure it was Intense branded. I'll be right back. Don't eat anything....
  • 10 0
 @Isey: bad comparison, adding 1lb to each shoe is going to make a significantly bigger difference than 2lbs of body weight. Similar to a car, reducing weight off the wheels (rotational mass) makes a way bigger difference than reducing it off the body
  • 8 0
 @arrowheadrush: There have actually been studies done in this topic (probably funded by the military). When hiking, shoe weight is a huge factor. Much more important for delaying fatigue than weight in the backpack.
  • 11 0
 @blowmyfuse: I have a carbon everything Bronson and with cushcore and fatty assegais its 33lbs so don't trip over an affordable bike being 34. Remove the NX cassette and you will be closer to 33 as well
  • 2 0
 The Sick AF bike didn't fare too well.
  • 1 2
 @R-M-R: that's 4lbs less you have to muscle around.
  • 11 0
 @nurseben: For anyone wanting some comparisons, it's within range of a lot of competing bikes. Santa cruz hightower entry is 34lbs, their megatower carbon starts at 33.7lbs at $6000cdn. The Commencal meta am 29 essential is 34lbs. The Marin Alpine Trail 7 is the only competing bike that is more than a pound lighter, but it looks like it has a lighter duty wheelset and cheaper cranks etc. You don't see many lighter bikes until you spend about an extra $1400usd/$2000cdn.
  • 6 1
 @nozes: Actually, you just proved my point. Your weight plus your bike is 188 lbs. Add shoes, clothes, helmet, tools, tube, pump, water ... yep, that's 200 lbs - or close enough to not be worth arguing about. You're already at 200 lbs. You're not going to get the larger "error margin" you seek without a heavier bike, spending a fortune, or both. I agree we might as well minimize weight, but only when it doesn't cause greater detriment to more important aspects of performance. So maybe you'll have to have a total weight of 204 lbs to get your "error margin". You'll be a lot faster on the descents, not much slower on the climbs, the same speed on the flats (probably faster, really), and you'll have a lot more fun along the way.

@Isey: No, it's not the same. With every stride, shoes accelerate to at least double the runner's velocity, then come to a complete stop. Do you accelerate to double your average speed and stop 90 times per minute? If so, then I stand corrected ... and you should probably try a different technique.

@littleskull99: Yes, it's 4 lbs less to muscle around (not that the 30 lb number is realistic for this category and price point). And, as I showed, 4 lbs matters a lot less than you think.
  • 2 4
 @scvkurt03: You need to ride more bikes then. It's not even close to most of the trail bikes out there today (especially the Ripley), and even some of the longer travel 29'ers.
  • 1 5
flag Heidesandnorth (Jan 6, 2020 at 16:45) (Below Threshold)
 @Isey: 160lbs/73kg? Wtf are you? A skinny dwarf? At 205lbs/94kg real runners start - and no, I ain‘t fat!
So 15.6kg for a bike equipped like the Ripmo AF sounds just like what the doctor ordered for me...????
  • 1 0
 @stevemokan: I'm sure the Ripley is better, but "most trail bikes"? Nah man. I've ridden the latest iteration of bikes from Yeti, Norco, Transition, Trek, GG, and none of them felt as good uphill. Downhill, which is what I buy bikes for, totally different story. Demoed the Ripmo twice and did not get along with it on that side, but it felt like a hardtail with better traction on both rides.
  • 1 0
 @blowmyfuse: have you ridden the ripmo af?
  • 1 1
 @duzzi: Agreed, I think we need companies to start listing the frame weight sans shock so that we can actually compare apples to apples as far as bike weight between companies goes.
  • 6 0
 @wannabeabiker: buy a bike on how it rides, not how much it weighs.
  • 4 1
 @R-M-R: no thats wrong, thats like saying a man, who weighs 150kg (330lbs) rides a bike 15kg (33lbs, with the total weight being 165kg (360lbs)) would be able to do as much as a 80kg (180lbs) man, on a 85kg (190lbs) bike, yes i know its very unrealistic but you get the message , in the same way a runner who is 90kg with shoes 1kg would be faster than a 80kg man with 11kg shoes, going with your theory both the rider and the runner should run at the same speed as their skinny counterparts as the total weight is the same

finished my spiel Smile
  • 4 0
 @Ccouch5859: No. I love the design concept and am eager to see if they push out an HD5 with similar spec. I have a super short inseam and have tried high end 29ers from Mondraker & Yeti and others & not interested. My height and riding style remove all interest in 29ers. 27.5 is still a monster truck to me. I'd rather have phenomenal suspension and be able to throw the bike around all day and have fun, not be a passenger and tell people about all the stuff my wheels rode, not me.
  • 1 0
 @Heidesandnorth: are you gatekeeping being overweight? that's a new one
  • 4 0
 @kiksy: well, yeah of course I agree with you there. I just think the claimed weights on bikes are pointless because you never know if it’s the components changing the weights, or if it was weighed with sealant or a shock and how much that weighs, etc. I just wish they would put the straight frame weight so you know whether the bike is heavy or not.
  • 2 0
 Here's JKW's review on the Ripmo AF,very honest for a Ibis sponsored rider:

youtu.be/nXSg7HyJ0RI
  • 2 0
 @Isey: Actually no, running shoes are different. Runners have to lift their feet up and accelerate them forwards on every stride which is a seperate and distinct effort from propelling their whole system weight forwards. Effect of running shoe weight on time over course can be quantified and is far, far, far more significant than bike weight.
  • 2 1
 @arrowheadrush: Nah, again rotational weight on a wheel (especially at the masses involved on bikes) has a miniscule effect compared to running shoes. Reducing wheel weight on motor vehicles even is much more about improving suspenson performance. It's primarily to reduce unsprung mass, not rotational mass.
  • 1 0
 @wingguy: Spot on. It's important to look at these things in relative terms. For example, a heavy rear wheel with two-ply tire and boat-anchor cassette may be four pounds more than the lightest realistic wheel with a super light tire.

The extra energy required to accelerate the whole system - rider and bike - is maybe three percent, even accounting for the extra rotational inertia of the perimeter mass. Not a lot.

The extra energy required to maintain speed due to rolling resistance could be be a couple dozen watts, which is a double-digit percentage increase in total energy requirement. A moderate amount.

The extra unsprung mass is about 100%. That's a lot. If we were considering a gearbox drivetrain, the elimination of the cassette, derailleur, and - in some systems - the freehub mechanism in the hub would take another pound off the rear wheel and the unsprung mass difference would be greater yet.
  • 19 0
 RC just makes bikes fun. I swear he's like the Bob Ross of the mountain bike world.
  • 4 0
 Gotta love the happy accidents!
  • 27 13
 And if you have any problems you can take your Ibis down to you LBS and have them deal with it quick AF. Seriously though, besides price occasionally, I never saw the draw of these direct to consumer bikes, especially priced like this. I know not everybody has a local Ibis dealer, but still easier to deal with US based company you can call on lunch and speak to somebody with a vested interest in the company.
  • 4 21
flag endurocat (Jan 6, 2020 at 7:25) (Below Threshold)
 Affordable?
  • 20 2
 @endurocat:

af·ford·a·ble/
/əˈfôrdəb(ə)l/

inexpensive; reasonably priced.
"affordable housing"
  • 20 1
 Unless you live somewhere in Europe and Ibis dosent have a single distributor with a shop in the entire country. For people in a similar situation there really isent much added value for LBS brands vs DTC brands in many cases. would have to order online regardless and no local bikeshop that support either.
  • 35 4
 Personnaly I stopped going to bike shops 15 years ago when I realized that they didn't give a crap or even knew anything about DH or Enduro (used to be called freeride back then). XC, Trail or Road was all they were interested about. On top of that their mechanics were useless most of times. So I learned how to do everything on my own and I don't see why I should give any money to a shop. This Ibis like many in-shop brands recently is decently priced making it competitive against direct-sale bikes but 1 or 2 years ago it wasn't the case.
  • 6 2
 @Balgaroth: must be weird living in an area that only has two shops or has 50 shops and somehow they all suck. Kinda impressive to be honest.
  • 7 0
 @TheBearDen: I have two shops and they are both terrible, one didnt even know what a dropper was or how it worked and the other couldent even install a bottom bracket on a friends city hybrid. Should tell you enough of my local situation
  • 6 0
 @TheBearDen: If you live in BC you have bike shops on easy mode.
  • 10 1
 You are acting like bike shops don’t know how to work on bikes they don’t sell. Stop that.
  • 15 1
 Believe it or not, no bike shop will kick you out for rolling a Canyon in. They will work on it just like an Ibis, etc.

As to WHY someone would want to go direct to consumer, it often comes down to bang for the buck. Getting the maximum amount of good parts (shocks, drivetrain, etc.) for a given price is important for those on a blue collar budget. Even for those bike brands, like Canyon, that have their own branded parts, its often on parts where the brand is secondary (stems, seatposts) or are on "ride it till it dies and upgrade" parts.
  • 11 1
 So you're telling me a shop will turn me away if I walk in with a direct-to-consumer bike and need help?

I just bought my first direct-to-consumer bike. It came fully built and dialed, the only thing I had to do is mount the handlebars. And all the fit and finish of boutique shop-bought bikes I've had in the past. Only difference is I spent $3700 on a spec that would've cost me $5500 from one of those boutique brands.

Much of the time, an LBS is literally just another hand that the bike goes through on its way to you. If you need someone to mount a handlebar for you, take your direct-to-consumer bike in to your LBS and pay them $20-$50 to do it. Orrrr you can buy a bike off their rack for a $1000-$2000 upcharge. Up to you.

Stocking multiple thousand dollar bikes on a wall is an inefficient business model and it needs to change and everyone will be better for it, including bike shops eventually IMO. I love my LBS and I spend a lot of money in there every year, but I don't think I'll ever buy a full MSRP bike off the wall again from a shop.
  • 9 1
 I own a direct sales bike. Guess what? I can still take it to my LBS and get it serviced. I don't understand why that is a relevant argument. Plus my bike was made in the United States, and I can call them OR my bike shop if I have questions. I've never been into or called a bike shop and had them be like "No we won't service your bike. We're super into turning paying customers away because you bought your bike from a direct to sales brand."
  • 6 6
 @CycleKrieg: have you ever had to deal with a bike shop when they sold you the bike vs coming in with an internet bike...I'll let you figure out which one is easier.

At this price it's a no brainer....when there is a big cost differential, lines get more blurry, it I'd still err on side of having a shop to support for warranty issues.
  • 15 2
 Large dealer network and lifetime warranty on the 2020 Giant Trance 29er 2 - SLX 12spd, Shimano brakes, Maxxis tires, FOX, $2,900
  • 1 3
 @nskerb: lol, enjoy trying to warranty it or get them to give a $@%^ about your sob story....
  • 2 1
 @gumbytex: warranty issues they wont touch. General maintenance of course, but you'll pay for it and wait for it.
  • 2 1
 @dbarnes6891: they fix it of course, for a price and a wait...warranty issues they wont touch.
  • 8 0
 @CycleKrieg:

Direct to consumer makes a lot of practical sense beyond just saving $$. I live in a ski resort town. Most "bike shops" are only functioning 3-4 months out of the year (they are ski shops the rest of the time). People do ride here but it's second fiddle to pretty much everything else.

Bike shops here don't stock good MTBs because they are focused on rentals, not sales. And the employees are almost never bike-focused and are working largely on those low-end rentals. And they're slammed all the time. Want suspension work done? You can wait a month.

I get all my specialty work done by a "private" bike mechanic who works out of his garage and has decades of pro-level experience. Finding him via word-of-mouth was a Godsend because I would otherwise not have good options.

Buying my last bike online was a given. I'd have to drive a long way to "buy local." And anyway, finding size smalls to test ride--let alone finding smalls in stock--is damn near impossible.

Being able to spend less, customize parts AND have the bike delivered to my door pretty much ready to ride ... I mean, it doesn't get much better than that. I'm all for supporting local shops but if the customer service is crummy and the options aren't there, I'm moving on.
  • 1 0
 @RadBartTaylor: no I haven't since the majority of my MTB life has been on a DTC bike. But I can tell you that the bike shops I choose to go to have never once said a thing about it and have never been anything other than great to work with.

In fact, they usually comment on things they like about the Canyon (seriously, almost everyone of them loves the quick axle on that Canyon uses).
  • 2 0
 @Balgaroth: @Balgaroth: Depends on the territory. I've worked at 5 different shops in a 13 year window. It really depends on what the customer base is like that will refine a shops capability. Some shops were better with road bikes and not mountain, others were the opposite. Try to find an experienced tech that rides the same stuff you do to get reliable repairs.

The only direct to consumer bikes that I've seen turned away were walmart grade bikes purchased from amazon. The kind of bikes made so cheaply that the time to assemble or repair them would cost more than what the bike was worth. Outside of that most shops will service any brand of bike. Or they should. I never turned away a bike based on it's brand.
  • 4 5
 @RadBartTaylor: I don’t expect them to give a “$@%^” about my sob story. Because I don’t sob, because I’m not a bitch. But hey sounds like that’s something you’ve got experience with!
  • 3 2
 @nskerb: calm down, jesus. Crack a frame or have any suspension issues, Ibis dealer will straighten you out and get back on road quick...
  • 1 0
 @OzarkBike: i really like the Giants, but that Trance isnt in the same category as these bikes. 115/130 vs ~140/160. Still a solid bike at the pricepoint though. The Reign would be a better choice
for comparison. $2900-3000.
  • 2 0
 @RadBartTaylor: I've had bikes that I've bought in a shop and bikes that I've bought on the internet. Except for the easy stuff that I do on my own like derailleur adjustments I always pay the same prices to get my bike fixed. I don't know what shops you are taking your bike into but it seems like they are either dick heads or you are just getting ripped off. As for warranty issues depending on what brand you bought it could be harder, but that could be said about any company out there. Bottom line there are good and bad shops. Where you bought your bike shouldn't matter, and in my experience doesn't.
  • 2 4
 @dbarnes6891: it matters, trust me. Any shop worth their weight will sort you out for free or minimal charge if you have warranty issues and you purchased from them, not to mention fight for you, I've been on both sides of fence.

Also, Santa Cruz offers free bearings for life of frames.....my LBS will charge nothing for install if you bought from them...if not, expect $150+ for labor.
  • 2 0
 @RadBartTaylor: Yes. Have you?

No difference in getting it worked on, in timing and cost. (And BTW, I do none of my own maintenance.) If your bike shop is doing that, namely charging/working customers differently based on whether they have purchased there, that's pretty piss poor customer service.

As to warranty issues, that depends on manufacturer. Which is just like a store bought bike. Some, like Canyon, have a good reputation in that regard. Some, like Airborne, have been hit-or-miss. My next bike will be either a Guerrilla Gravity Trail Pistol or a Canyon Neuron. Neither are "traditional" purchases from a bike shop.
  • 2 5
 @RadBartTaylor: if you’re having a bike shop press your bearings you should take up hiking lol.
  • 2 0
 @gumbytex: what really gets me is the distributor model. Just a relic from the pre-internet age sitting in the money conga line and providing zero value to the end user. To top it off they they usually suck to deal with. f*ck them and f*ck dealing with them.
  • 1 0
 @dirtyburger: Distributors make sense if they sell the bikes directly. Especially for smaller brands who don't have a worldwide sales network.
I bought my bike from the national Banshee distributor which gets me same-language support and quick access to spare parts.
They are also the distributor for a few other brands which reduces overhead.
  • 1 0
 @nskerb: anything I can pawn off on bike to ride more is where my head is, but WTF do I know...lol
  • 3 1
 @RadBartTaylor: a lot of direct to consumer brands will get you a warranty replacement just as quickly as a shop will. Often with less hassle! The shop usually still has to have the manufacturer ship a replacement to you. Same process I'd go through with my direct-to-consumer bike if it broke, but I'd be communicating directly with the manufacturer instead of using an LBS as a middleman.

IMO, the warranty process can be even easier with direct than LBS.
  • 2 0
 @RadBartTaylor: haha. Santa Cruz and free bearings. Sooooo I should spend $1800 more for a comparable spec as a DTC bike to save money on a $30 set of bearings and labor to install them, once a year? Or buying the extractor and press myself and doing it quickly and easily for like...$150 total? Ok!
  • 2 0
 @RadBartTaylor: CanyonUSA warranty service is fantastic. Needed a replacement bolt, one was sent out within days. Had an issue with a crank arm, daily email communication with me as they dealt with SRAM. They even followed up after the replacement cranks were delivered to make sure I had received the replacement and if everything went ok with the parts swap.
  • 3 0
 @gumbytex: Exactly.

Businesses survive when they focus on what they can do uniquely well. Putting a bike in your hands is not unique to a shop: any courier service can do it equally well.

Shops still have a place for service and as demo centres and showrooms for one or two examples of each bike, but they don't need to be the warehouse.
  • 1 0
 @RadBartTaylor: "Crack a frame or have any suspension issues, Ibis dealer will straighten you out and get back on road quick..."

Does it matter? If someone spends half as much on a direct-sale bike, they could just throw out a few frames, buy new ones, and still not lose money.

Not that that would happen. The fastest warranty service I've seen has always been from direct-sale brands. Not all of them are like that, of course, but some of them will express-ship a replacement and have you rolling again before you could find time to drive over to the LBS.
  • 1 1
 @R-M-R: I've seen shops scavenge shocks of other frames, get replacements over ight, etc....so yeah, IME, it does matter.

I've done warranty through email, it's a PITA. Obviously not all companies are created equal, just like not all LBS are either....but I've had much better luck with face to face at a shop.

Like I said, when there is big price gap the lines get blurred, but considering the price point, which is the same, I'd buy North America or LBS 10/10....
  • 1 0
 @RadBartTaylor: You win some and you lose some. I've had great service from shops and I've had abysmal service. My point is that warranty service via (good) direct-sale companies is fully viable - not even second-rate, in many cases.
  • 4 0
 No one is addressing the elephant in the room. Santa Cruz, Ibis, Pivot, Yeti, Kona, Transition the list goes on and on. These bike are all sold by online retailers and marked down to 30% off or lower at times. Pretty damn close to direct to consumer, what is the value in these brands when you can pay 30% less a year to a year and half down the road. Lifetime warranty? LBS support?
  • 1 0
 @CycleKrieg: I agree. Unless a LBS has a huge annual bike sales volume to support the service department, any bike coming through for service covers the LBS shop's overhead. I received a "bro deal" on a 2018 Cannondale Trigger 2 purchased in a major TX metro other than where I live. I walked my Trigger into my local LBS for warranty service when the Guide RS died for known reasons. The service managers and staff were great. Took care of my warranty claim and gave me great service. I turned around and bought a price Fox dropper and shock pump. I don't choose to over look value where I can find it. I also do pay for good service. In the future, maybe I'll buy a new ride from my local LBS, or use my savings to pay for service.
  • 3 0
 @TheBearDen: recently a shop opened 60km away from me and is specialized in boutique bikes, all my buddies go there to buy their bike full retail price, most of them have no clue how to build a bike tho. I don't see why I would spend 40min (when no traffic) to drive somewhere to get charged for a service I can provide myself. And this shop opened maybe 3/4 years ago. I started to get into gravity things on a MTB around 2002/3, and for the next 5 years I tried to work with local shops untill I gave up, CRC was starting to become a thing, so did Alltricks and then swore I'd never step in any of those shops again. I doubt that any of my local shops (60km is not local) are actually more knowledgeable than me so I don't bother.

Those who praise the LBS for the service they offer even on direct-sales bikes have either a short memory or have been in the sport for a short time. Not that long ago many LBS would refuse to service a YT or a Canyon. Often despite the fact that those bikes would be Gravity oriented and that those same bike shops would have no interest for this type of riding and wouldn't stock or order this type of bikes. Now that direct-sales brands are taking a huge part of the market they accept to service these bikes simply because they need some business to run their shops considering they have lost many bike sales to those direct-sales brands. They don't do it because they like to offer some service but because they need business to stay open. No business do things out of kindness, only to get some turnover or in the hope that their kindness will be bringing them business on the long run.
  • 1 0
 @RadBartTaylor: whatever man. You desperately need to be right. I'm telling you and so are others that the shops we have been to aren't like that and are still great shops I guess keep living in whatever fantasy you live in that makes you feel good or superior for doing whatever it is you do.
  • 1 0
 @nskerb: you doing full suspension overhauls yourself aswell?
  • 1 1
 @dbarnes6891: again, the chance of a LBS doing you well if u purchased from them vs bringing in a DTC bike is better....seen it hundreds of times, lived it and bike shops contacts all say same thing.

At the same price, it's a no brainer....when there is a huge price difference, it becomes a brainer.
  • 18 2
 Still don't know why Maxxis named a tire after an angry 80's tennis player...
  • 7 0
 it has bald spots?
  • 1 1
 @imho4ep: might be referring to the "aggressiveness" of the tread
  • 12 0
 Wow, the level of detail from RC is LEGIT here. I really like this format (maybe even a little better than the standard field test format). Very cool.
  • 9 0
 I got a Ripmo AF NX build a few months back. I swapped out the brakes for Codes and updated the cockpit with some Deity bits.

This bike performs very well for the trails I ride, which are mostly on in the Front Range of Colorado. I could have bought a more expensive bike, but being a busy dad I like to know all I have to do is grab it and go. No annoying subtle ticks coming from a carbon frame or having to readjust to keep it silent.

I came from an Enduro, which served me well, but I wouldn’t go back. I plan on keeping this for the long haul and just replacing parts when they fail.
  • 2 0
 I almost did that, and the plan was to snag a full SLX group (with brakes) for $600 on eBay and swap those on with a OneUp dropper and then sell the NX group and KS dropper. Or just wait for the NX to die and get the SLX group then.
  • 1 0
 I just saw Jeff Kendall-Weed's review a few days ago and he says he's getting a lot of pedal strikes with it.

How does the bottom bracket fare on rocky tech around the front range? I'm seriously interested in this sometime this spring.
  • 2 0
 @julianf0918: I bought an AF when it came out and live/ride in Golden. Pedal strikes like any low bb bike, but not an obscene amount. Haven't cleared Dakota on it (imo the ultimate low BB test), but it's fine up Apex, chimney, Belcher, multiple times. I also recall clearing everything on Bergen peak up to the summit push. I'm not sure what long/low/slack 6" bike would do better, especially in a similar price bracket.
  • 1 0
 @julianf0918: that because Jeff as the Trust fork on is and longer crank
  • 1 0
 @julianf0918: i haven’t seen any harsh bottoming out incidents or pedal strikes. I did , however, opt for 170 cranks at the recommendation of the guys at Basecamp Cycles. I plan to hit up Floyd Hill in the next couple of weekends. There are a couple spots that could snag a pedal on the downhill section.

So far I don’t regret my decision at all to get this bike. On a side note, it look way better in person than in photos.
  • 1 0
 @gumbytex: I came from an XX1 Eagle on my Enduro and I never had any issues with it. Since everyone is dumping there barely used GX and XO1 sets I may snag up a few of those and save a bunch of money. The NX is clunkier, but it works just fine.

I think a lot of people tinker too much which results in issues on the trail. Until that time though going to run the NX into the ground.
  • 1 0
 @jhess8
My mega came with guide T, which codes did you swap? I'm looking at the same deal. Guides feel meh.
  • 1 0
 @fruitsd79: I just swapped my Code Rs over from my previous bike. They are reliable and stop me quickly on the long descents here.
  • 16 6
 DAMMIT! If we don’t see some announcements today about who is with who in 2020, I’m gonna die!
  • 43 0
 If you die, can I have your bike?
  • 6 0
 @nurseben: spoken like a true nurse Smile
  • 2 0
 @nurseben: well, I was all set to give you my bike, but thankfully was saved by Nico and Transition
  • 8 1
 Please do a long term review on the AF with the coil shock! Reviews are finally dropping on the AF but none with the coil. I’d be really curious how a DW bike does with a coil. Would it be worth it for small bump sensitivity?
  • 3 0
 @querent: I have a 2016 Canfield Balance, which is similar a DW-link bike. Coming from a CCDB Air CS to a CCDB Coil CS was well worth the extra weight. The bike tracks the ground much better than the air shock and feels better in all areas of riding overall. Unless I'm building up an XC rocket, I will never go back to riding an air shock. Coincidentally, my good buddy has an AF with the DVO Coil (190lbs-ish and running a 500lbs Spring) and he really likes it. He's still fiddling with the adjustments, but out of the box he says it's great.
  • 2 0
 @Bobbyd82: mint, thanks for the info!
  • 1 1
 Have you heard of anyone installing one? Not sure it has the kinematics for that. DW link bikes are usually too linear for coil suspension! I haven't heard about the AF though... ???
  • 3 0
 For what it's worth, one of the mechanics at the shop I work at has been riding an AF with the Jade X coil on it for several months now. As far as I've felt, it bobs slightly more out of saddle as may be expected of any coil bike, but in the saddle it feels fine with even more traction than the air shock. The AF linkage ramps substantially so coils feel good in this layout. Keep in mind that the coil adds a pound though. With a coil, bigger brakes, and a Cushcore, this bike is nearly 37 pounds. They may pedal well for their size but bear in mind this utilizes more aggro geometry than the carbon Ripmo that they race EWS's on, it's a big bike to lug around.
  • 1 0
 @nation: Interesting about the coil working. That's cool. Although I will say that weight is NOT cool. I'm not a weight weenie, but 36+ lbs is NOT okay for a trail bike. Ugh.
  • 13 7
 Great review! Love the bikes.
I get that 12 speed is all the rage, but I would not feel let down if either of these bikes came with a Shimano Deore 10 speed drivetrain. I'd be just as happy (and avoid having to change out the drivetrain at a later date.)
Put the saved money from the drivetrain into having 3C compound tires and maybe some Shimano brakes...
  • 17 1
 Then buy a frame and put you 10 speed on it. Not rocket science.
  • 12 0
 Deore is what came to mind for you? Not the reasonably priced SLX groupset? Lol
  • 8 1
 Box Prime 9!
  • 6 1
 @TheBearDen: I think the Deore 10sp is often offered with the big HG500 cassette to give you 11sp kinda range for 10sp kinda money. I don't think 11sp SLX can beat that.
  • 3 5
 2020 Giant Trance 29er 2 - SLX 12spd, Shimano brakes, Maxxis tires, FOX, $2,900
  • 1 0
 At least both seem to be specced w 3C (dunno if the white hotpatch OEM version is inferior). But the Canyon has the 3C on the wrong wheel.


On the Canyon website the model bike has a maxxgrip on the rear and maxxterra on the front??? Maybe they are all about optimizing for technical climbs?
  • 3 2
 @TheBearDen: The IBIS site has the SLX spec'ed bike at 35%, or $1000 more than the base build. The $4000 price point opens up a lot of competition from other brands. I'd rather have a bike spec'ed with Shimano from the factory than have to change it out after. The 10 speed Deore 11-42 w/ a 28 or 32t front ring is lighter than the SLX 11-50 12 speed, similar gear range,and arguably similar in performance. Personally, Shimano 10 speed> Sram 12 Speed. Of course, just my opinion, of course. That, and cassette replacement is 1/3 to 1/2 the cost vs. Sram.
  • 2 0
 @boostedka: The point is to spend less money on less range, not more money on less range.
  • 2 1
 @OzarkBike: And not a good comparison to either the RAF OR the Spectral... enough with the SHILL
  • 1 0
 @stiingya: It is not a SHILL. Just pointing out you can get nice SLX 12spd for the sub $3k pricepoint as discussed above.
  • 2 0
 @OzarkBike: Seems like you've made that same post 3-4 times? = SHILL. But maybe that wasn't you? Not gonna go look... Smile

At any rate, the Giant Trance 29 might have a better deal on the drive train, but the bike itself is not a direct comparison to either of these bikes tested so it's not relevant.

The Reign 29 2 would compare well with the RAF, and on price it does. But on spec it doesn't.

The Trance Advanced 2 would compare pretty well with the Spectral, but on price it's several hundred dollars more expensive and the spec is sort of mixed. The carbon wheels are sweet at that price point, but to make that happen every other part on the bike is a downgrade in comparison. Some might think it's a fair trade though?
  • 1 0
 @stiingya: I agree if Giant had an aluminum Reign 29er SLX, FOX at $2900-$3000 it would be a great seller.
  • 1 0
 @strangemeadowlark: according to Maxxis the logo hotpatch is just for OEM matchy-matchy (yellow not clashing with paint job)

They say all 3C Maxxgrip EXO (or whatever) are identical even if you have a white and a yellow hotpatch.

There was a bit on NSMB about it.
  • 7 3
 I love the Ibis concept, but that 64,9° HA just screams someone from marketing looked at the 65° in the spec sheet and said "c'mon, we need a "4" there to look current!".

Still would love to try it. Shame that here in EU the frameset to NX build price difference is only like 800€. Would consider to get a frame this year if the price was more moderate
  • 10 0
 Probably from the taller axle to crown of the dvo fork
  • 2 1
 @DHhack: don't know about the current Diamond fork, but my gen 1 non boost Diamond has a much shorter axle to crown than a Fox 34
  • 1 0
 Or they just decided to make it 1 degree slacker. (Ripmo carbon head angle is 65.9, not the 66 degrees quoted in the article.)
  • 1 0
 @pinspanner: A new 34 or 36 is about 10mm shorter on axle to crown than the DVO. Rockshox has an even longer axle to crown length than DVO.
  • 9 4
 @MtbSince84: my comment stands for the 65.9° carbon Ripmo as well.
Manufacturing tolerances make that 0,1° irrelevant. They just went that way for fear of the 66° (carbon) and 65° (AF) sounding démodée, which I find a little lame.

People get lost into this geo numbers thing and forget how tiny a 0,1° variation is. If one measured a handful of bikes I wouldn't be surprised to see the HAs and STAs with variations of like +-0,3° on nominal. Even fractioning those angles at 0,5°s like 63.5° instead of rounding is a little disingenuous considering tolerances. But since everyone now obsesses over geometry I can see the marketing angle (pun)
  • 1 0
 "Shame that here in EU the frameset to NX build price difference is only like 800€." Really, what are your prices then?`

In Germany it's 2098 Euro for the frameset and 3398 for the NX. www.denk-outdoor.de/ibis-ripmo-af?number=ibis-ripmoAF-Frame-Metal-S
  • 1 0
 @Arierep: Agreed, .9 is ridiculous.
  • 8 0
 in UK the spectral cost 2300 £ and Ibis 3150 £.. Just a reference
  • 2 0
 The pricing on the Ibis is very depressing, accounting for tax it would be £2750-ish, or £2300-ish if the dollar price includes sales tax. Someone's taking a big old chunk of flesh and taking it from deal of the year to about average for the market.
  • 7 0
 Same in Germany. The Spectral costs 2499€ and the Ibis 3398€. Furthermore the more comparable NX build of the Spectral only costs 2099€.

However, no doubt that the Ibis is a great bike.
  • 2 1
 @Fix-the-Spade: once the US trade deal is done, they'll throw in a free pack of poppy-flavoured pain killers with your Ibis.
  • 1 0
 Yep, it doesn't make them comprable at all. I know what one I'd pick, and pocket some cash for Morzine.
  • 2 2
 @BenPea: Don't worry, I'll be consoling myself by telling boomers that they are going blind, it'll cost them £20k at least to have the surgery they need and they've got six months at most to get it, but it would have all been free on the pre-brexit NHS.
  • 9 1
 Now thats a proper video review! RC is the boss!
  • 9 0
 We need more RC
  • 4 0
 Does the new Spectral come with ISCG05 tabs to mount a bash guard? That was one missing feature that turned me off 2 years ago.

I know I may get flamed for this, but I think some you ger budding riders (& their parents) would probably like to see reviews of bikes that are truly affordable.

Bikes from larger retailers such as Dick’s, REI, & EMS come to mind (GT, Haro, Cannondale, Diamondback, Coop).

I started a Boy Scout merit badge program for my son’s troop, and basically all of them had bikes that were crigne-worthy of riding even mellow trails around here. I felt bad and bought 3 used MTBs to help them on more serious rides. If YouTube bloggers can do it, so can you PB!
  • 6 0
 Also shootouts of the basic ripper hardtails and sub $2k FS bikes that are available everywhere would be nice

Trek Roscoe vs Spesch Fuse vs Giant Fathom vs Salsa Timberjack vs Diamondback Sync'r/Line

Giant Stance vs Marin Rift Zone vs ... (ok Trek and Specialized get to f*ckin' work)
  • 3 0
 @dontcoast: Agree with everything you said but remember- you can attract
more flies with honey than with vinegar...
  • 2 0
 @Staktup: haha you mean re: asking the two of the big 3 to provide a quality FS for under $2K?

yeah my choice of honey or vinegar won't matter, losing market share to giant and marin will.

FWIW i did just spring for trance 27.5's for my kids, trek and spesh do have some competing products around $2100, but travel is longer on trance, standover is lower, and 35mm fork vs 32mm
  • 1 0
 @dontcoast: no, not FS. I just meant ask nicely and maybe they’ll do it Smile
  • 1 0
 @Staktup: nah i'm not a trek or spesh dealer anymore so they extra wouldn't care what I have to say. It's all gonna be sales pressure.

(generally speaking I agree with you tho)
  • 1 0
 @Staktup: you get the most flies with bullshit.
  • 4 1
 @richardcunningham - hang on a second, just under $3k for a reasonably spec'd, up-to-date, very much fun to ride bike is by no means that much of a unicorn anymore. Retail on Kona's 134 and 153, for example, (in both 29 and 27.5) is $2,399 and $2,788, respectively.
  • 1 0
 Yup. Kona has some of the best deals going.
  • 1 0
 With 32mm stanchions??? Not even comparable to the Spectral which is currently $2499 USD. My bud demoed a Process 134 A few weeks ago and we both thought my Spectral beat it in climbing, descending, cornering and all around fun. The only thing the 29er did was roll faster.
  • 3 0
 I think I'm going to end up buying a Ripmo AF but when is Canyon coming to Canada? I could order from the US but the unpredictability of duties/taxes etc means it's usually easier to order from Canada. I wonder if the recent cyber attack has delayed things cyclingtips.com/2020/01/canyon-bicycles-hit-by-cyber-attack-over-holidays
  • 3 0
 I know right. When you ship it to WA, you pay the state tax and pay another tax on the CBSA to get it to our country. Good thing I bought my Spectral back when I was in Winnipeg, no state taxes when shipped in North Dakota. Only paid taxes at CBSA and that's about it.
  • 3 0
 I owned a Spectral CFR for a couple months, and that bike ripped.
The only thing they did terribly wrong on it is the cable routing through that plastic piece under the downtube. The dropper cable totally rubbed into the bottom right side of the headtube. Not acceptable on an mtb in 2019. Cable rub on headsets is something we messed with in 1995, not anymore these days. Fix that Canyon, and the Spectral scores 100%.
  • 4 0
 Why couldn't all the field tests be this detailed? This was a great comparison!
Also, I am having a really hard time deciding between the Ripmo AF and the Occam H10. Both offer amazing value.
  • 3 0
 $3,800 in Germany (not sold in the Netherlands). Still a great price, but unfortunately significantly more expensive than in the US. Or is the $2,999 price excluding taxes? If so, what would the end price be like?
  • 5 0
 In Europe the Ripmo AF SLX version comes at 4498 and the Spectral 6.0 (also SLX here) comes in at 2499€. Thats nearly a 2000 € difference. Not quite comparable.
  • 2 0
 There's no Federal Sales Tax or VAT in the US, but each state and city can set their own sales taxes (VAT is not used in the US). So some places will have a 0% tax, others will be as high as 9.5%. My local sales tax is 7.875%, so the fnal price of this bike would be $3,236
  • 1 0
 Sales taxes vary by state/city in the US. As an example, sales tax in Massachusetts is 6.25% so we’d be looking at just under $3,200, but across the state line in New Hampshire I could get it for $2,999.
  • 2 0
 @elmaar:

Yep you are right. American bikes are crazy expensive over here.
  • 2 0
 @Skidsy: Imagine living in Greece and want to buy an ibis if you are the dealer. You pay the price that Ibis sells you the bike , then you add 23% tax plus an 8% import fee. Just the import fee is 780 Euro. So to make something out of it you need to sell the basic AF around 3.600 Euro. It sucks.
  • 3 0
 Ibis knocked it out of the park with the AF. Not sure why anyone would buy the carbon model until they update the geo and kinematics? Probably the best company in the industry to deal with as well in terms of warranty etc.
  • 4 0
 I rode both bikes last week, the AF is pretty good but when ridden back to back against the carbon bike, you can feel the extra weight in it. I'm probably going to order the AF as I'm struggling to justify the extra $$$ for a carbon but I'll always be left wondering
  • 3 0
 Demo both Ripmo's at Outerbike. End up buying carbon NX because it's lighter, feels quicker, more agile and the store had a sale.
  • 1 1
 Yeah the geo on the carbon model is getting outdated fast!! Frown Ibis needs to update that bike ASAP.
  • 2 0
 Interesting to see the written review for the budget bikes is largely flowing praise for both of these rigs, except for the twitchy at times comment on the Canyon, whereas the more expensive bikes are more critically-reviewed. These are quick reviews for sure but I think we’re in a good time for the sub-$3,500 bike world. I want to see what you guys had to say about the Spesh hardtail though because I love my Fuse for what it is.
  • 3 0
 Jeff Kendall Weed does a more critical review of the AF on his channel.
  • 4 2
 Strange, in a previous Field Test comment, I was asking for a aggressive hardtails field test and someone from PB told me: yeah, it`s coming for sure!
Since that: nothing except tests with Full Suckers - nothing against them though, but... hum.
So: when do we get something out of the standards with what I`m talking about?
PS: what would be a dream test could be: a 100% steel bikes test, FS + HT. Difficult to organize I guess, but that would be rad and sexy Wink
  • 2 0
 I have newfound respect for this Sir Richard Cunningham (Austin powers reference), I am 33 and I hope I am going down some gnar when I'm old as shit. Great content, about the progression of what a $3,000 bike standard should be and is in the future. It is a great time for riders, entering a new renascence for 2020
  • 2 0
 Why is it that the four bar seems to be talked down on almost if its outdated? I love 4 bar linkages, they are very predictable, strong, and have been well proven on the world cup, but most importantly they work well in every scenario!
  • 2 0
 My friend bought a Ripmo with the Assegai on the rear and was dying. I love it as a front tire, but that really will wear you out to climb with on the rear. Also, switching to lighter faster tires makes more of a difference that swapping the frame to carbon would, and for much less money.
  • 2 0
 Kinda wish this was a comparison between the aluminum hightower v2 and the ripmo af. Both are sub-3K modern trail bikes that can deal with enduro-trail downs. The AF can handle a coil. The hightower might actually be a better climber given the AF's geometry. Both are around 34-35 pounds, but that can probably be decreased with swapping out some drivetrain components and tires. I know that's a total Northern Californian/Santa Cruz field test, but those are the two affordable aluminum frames I'm considering.
  • 3 0
 Is the Ripmo AF the ghost of Christmas future for the carbon Ripmo? Asking for a friend who might need to sell his carbon Ripmo before it's perceived obsolete ....
  • 2 1
 Ah, no. There are plenty of people out there willing to spend the extra $ on a lighter, better spec'd Ripmo carbon. I for one would buy a Ripmo C again over the AF if I needed to get a bike today. The AF is an incredible bike and value, but it ain't for everyone.
  • 3 0
 @MtbSince84: I mean is the 2021 Ripmo V2 going to be a carbon version of the AF? I'd so like to beat the perceived obsolete fire sale like you see on the V3 Ripleys. I mean my friend would
  • 2 0
 @hankj: Ah, got it. But then "your friend" would be without a Ripmo to ride until the mythical Ripmo V2 comes out!

Also, let's look at the differences (assuming they simply apply the AF changes):

* 1 degree slacker head angle
* 17 mm longer wheelbase (size L)
* 4 mm longer reach
* 2 mm longer rear travel
* modified kinematics (more ramp-up at end stroke)

Some of these changes (reach, travel) are pretty trivial. And some of these I don't want - the wheelbase of the current Ripmo is long enough, thanks!

I think Ibis did a brilliant job of spec'ing the AF. Not only did they get to a great price point, but they effectively addressed the shuttle/park end of the market. If I did more of that kind of riding, I'd probably get the AF. But I spent a month in BC last year and did not shuttle or hit the park once (did all my own climbing). And my home riding includes tight trails and switchbacks. For me the original Ripmo hits the spot.
  • 6 1
 İ had the same canyon and it cracked 7 times
  • 6 0
 It was rather the 7.0 model then !
  • 2 1
 If one bike cracks 7 times we don't call that "cracked", we call it "pulverized".
  • 3 0
 pics, or it didn't happen...
  • 1 1
 @stiingya: www.pinkbike.com/photo/18145723

There is 3 welds and 4. Crack on the photo
On the top shock mount there is 2 welds and one crack too but i dont have a photo for that.
My friend sold the frame.
  • 2 1
 @Noeserd: But that's just 1 crack...? Smile
  • 1 1
 @stiingya: there was 3 welded cracks man Big Grin
  • 2 1
 @Noeserd: Sorry, looked like just one big crack to me? But if the wheel and shock broke in those pictures at the same time must have been a pretty big wreck? Case a landing or something?

Smack something hard enough and it breaks...?
  • 1 1
 @stiingya: no case landing or crash. Just normal use, we couldn't understand too
  • 3 0
 RC, review the Marin Rift Zone 3 that you spotted in Whistler this year. A few great reviews on the platform, but no reviews on the RZ3 yet.
  • 1 0
 Yea, only 2 bikes on the affordable round of testing is a little disappointing.
  • 4 0
 Nice work. Gonna miss RC, but glad that Daniel is apparently taking up the affordable bike mantle.
  • 2 0
 I am astonished at the builds on the bikes at this price range. On both bikes I would not have change a single part. A bike with a Fox 36 fork and DPX 2 shock for 3k ? Bloody amazing!
  • 3 0
 Don't forget the Alu Santa Cruz Hightower. Not as much tradel as the Ripmo AF, but the bike looks good for the money. And, SC is not really known for budget builds.
  • 1 0
 The Ripmo AF NX build price seems like an OK deal. However I don't understand the pricing of the SLX and GX build kits (or who would actually buy them). Using local prices: Ripmo AF NX is 3282 euro including VAT and SLX build us a whooping 4377 eur including VAT... Other than groupset, brakes and seat post the builds are identical. The retail price for a full SLX groupset including brakes is around 450 euros including VAT. The Bike Yoke revive seat post is 380 including VAT. It makes absolutely no sense to buy any of the higher build kits since it's way cheaper to buy NX and then buy the upgrades aftermarket. In fact doing it like this for the 4300 I can build the ripmo on a full XT including brakes and still have all the NX/Guide stuff for sale.
  • 1 0
 Great vid Pinkbike!! But we need more options. Surely out of hundreds of manufacturers and thousands of models there must be more options Surely!
Interestingly to it seems your information on price is country specific.
You quoted the Spectral Al6.0 as $2899 And the Ibis as $2999.
In Australia they are priced vastly different. Yes i understand the we dont count like Europe and North America, and there is exchange rates blah blah blah.
On the Canyon website for Au price is $3949 for the AL6.0 and Ripmo AF NX as $4990!
With exchange rate that from AU to USD Canyon are looking after us saving us $500 over the exchange rate where as Ibis want to sting us another $600 cause we live in the best place on the planet.
Funnily a Ibis the bird is in plaque proportions around rubbish dumps and tip sites around Australia.
We un-affectionately called them BinChooks
  • 3 0
 Already sold on the Ripmo AF. Trying to find one at a local dealer is the main issue, now.
  • 1 0
 We have stock at the store I work at in Vancouver and will ship them for $5 in Canada. Send me a DM if you're keen.
  • 2 0
 Jack's Cycle in Chilliwack has Ripmo AF's in stock too. I'd encourage to purchase as local as possible, but if you can't find what you're looking for we aren't too far from Vancouver.
  • 1 0
 Thanks for the replies and DMs all! I just managed to find some at my LBS (not sure why I didnt check this specific place).
  • 1 0
 does JensonUSA ship to Canada? They have them there
  • 1 0
 @hankj: bought mine in stock at bicicletta. Kinetik in Coquitlam recently became a dealer as well.
  • 2 0
 This makes me wonder how that new Nukeproof trail bike would compare. It actually goes for the kind of money I'd call "affordable".
  • 1 0
 How much cheaper in your country? The entry level Nukeproof reactor is the same price if you order from Canada and has lesser specs. Then we pay duty on top so it's actually a terrible deal. The vitus mythique vrx, by comparison, is a much better deal and only 10mm less travel.
  • 2 0
 @JayUpNorth: Oh sorry, yeah meant to say that new Vitus indeed. Mixed up Vitus and Nukeproof, my bad.
  • 1 0
 @JayUpNorth: @vinay In the US, we can get the Mega Expert Model for $2999. That would blow these two bikes out of the water. We would order from Chain Reaction in the UK. Not sure what the price would be for Can.
The Reactor Expert build is $3099 US.
  • 1 0
 @mybaben: I'll start off by saying that mega looks nice for the price, but too much bike for me. For Canadians the deal sucks though. The Mega expert is $1600cdn more than the Ripmo af delivered after taxes. In fact, after US to cdn conversion they add on an extra random $600 to the base price. The reactor alloy expert is $200cdn more delivered than the Santa Cruz Hightower Carbon R. I think most of the nukeproof reactor lineup is priced way too high for a direct to consumer bike, but especially bad for Canadians.
  • 1 0
 @JayUpNorth: That's a bummer mate. Sorry to hear they aren't a good deal in Can. They're such great bikes. They really are a great deal for us in the US. Chain Reaction pays shipping AND duty to the States. I can get an insane bike for less than $5K US! Do you know anyone in the US who can buy for you? Then drive down and pick it up! Wink
  • 2 0
 @mybaben: I just checked, the Vitus Mythique 27 VR goes for under 1k GBP. That's with 10sp Deore, 11-46 cassette, 30mm inner width rims, KMC EPT chain, Schwalbe EVO tires and well, no reason I can see to not ride it as it is. Me being me I'm fine with slamming the saddle as low as it goes and keep it there, but I can imagine most will want a dropper seatpost. I'd actually take this as a plus as people can be picky about seatposts these days. Either you want cheap and get their BrandX seatpost or you swear by BikeYoke and get that. Either way you're not replacing something expensive (just a rigid seatpost you can keep as spare) so it wouldn't feel like a waste.
  • 1 0
 @vinay: Cool, sounds like they have some good sales going on. Nice.
  • 2 0
 @mybaben:Not well enough. I want to hit some demo days around western Canada this spring before I buy anyways. I am stocky AF with short legs and a long torso so not everything feels right. I also want to try different pedalling platforms and maybe some lighter bikes to see if 2lbs feels any different to a 220lbs rider.
  • 2 0
 @JayUpNorth: That makes sense! Good luck finding the right bike!
  • 1 0
 @JayUpNorth: I'm 260 lb on the '19 mega comp 275. Also have a '18 vitus sentier 275. Brand X dropper does a good job.
Stock michelin 2.4 are great down hill.
2.6 dhf and rekon rear get after it.
  • 1 0
 @fruitsd79: how does it pedal standing up? I don't run into many bigger riders on the trails. My Norco fluid sucks standing up but it also has a budget x-fusion shock. Maybe I just need a shock with a climb switch for my new bike? Reviewers often don't bother with them, but they are 150-180lbs most of the time.
  • 2 0
 @JayUpNorth: standing up it bobs, for sure.
Climbing switch would be great, the super deluxe it came with I can firm up with pressure but sacrificing small bump.
Seated climbing is actually not bad.
  • 9 9
 I love the review of Canyon. I got an impression that It is rigid because it’s Alu... wait what? So now carbon is the compliant material? Let’s rewind to 2010... carbon is better cuz it’s stiffer... the 10k hour/ 10 year rule still works for bike industry. They reinvented their sales pitch!
  • 2 0
 Ibis Ripmo AF. The best and most fun bike i've ever had by far. (All previous bikes were top spec and at least double the price).
  • 1 0
 Is there a cost-savings reason for Canyon going with a steeper headtube angle? Personally 66 degrees doesn't bother me in the least but the reviewer made a point of it so I'm curious.
  • 3 0
 NO, it's just that Canyons geometry is always a little behind the times/conservative.
  • 1 0
 @stiingya: muchos gracias
  • 1 1
 So if this is a bike for Dental assistants, did you know that 99.99% of dental assistants are female. So I'm guessing you mean these are great bikes for the ladies in our lives, so we can go spend twice as much on a bike for ourselves.
  • 1 0
 the best part was that other guy saying "RC is a pretty good rider" hahahha OMG RC has ridden more hours than anyone. OF course he is one of the best riders and should be in the top 25 riders ever.
  • 1 1
 I still can't afford either of these. Why are people accepting of a definition of affordable that increases each year? It seems like it has more to do with "What costs the least that has a cool name," then overall quality of ride/durability. I'm calling bullshit on this one.
  • 2 0
 "Accomplished bike-handlers need the elevated performance that elite-level mountain bikes provide"

lulz
  • 9 0
 yeah. My skills are at about the just north of horrible level, so for me the Ripmo's main task is preventing my untimely but well-deserved death
  • 1 0
 Which bike will be better for enduro single track ride and sometimes ripping local trails around urban ?
Trek Slash 9.7. carbon vs Ibis Ripmo AF ?
  • 2 0
 of course ripmo af with slx groupset and coil damper version.
  • 1 0
 I don't need a new bike, and I can't afford one, but I still want to get that Ripmo just because it looks like a great bike and is a stonking good buy.
  • 2 0
 That is probably the best, most coherent, structured bike review that I've seen.
  • 2 0
 It's a bummer that he retired. I really liked his laid-back presentation and point of view for us older riders.
  • 3 1
 More 2k full suspension bikes for us broke students
  • 2 0
 vital mountain bike did a 2k shootout if you haven't seen it. Fluid 3, Rift Zone, Stance, Mythique, Sensor, and Abjo Peak. It's on youtube.
  • 1 0
 Check Chain Reaction Cycles. There are a number of good options.
  • 2 0
 You can't afford a $2K bike if you're a broke student either.
  • 2 0
 Thank you! Bikes like this are exactly what the MTB world needs.
  • 5 3
 Make aluminium great again! Carbon can go to the landfill.
  • 3 1
 Best way to start a video, skid down a trail...
  • 2 0
 Ripmo AF, solid second bike contender.
  • 1 0
 Man, my mind get confused when he doesn't call it the Ripmo As f*ck.

Great video comparison, though!
  • 1 0
 carbon handlebars really do help the ripmo AF hugely and lighter tires for regular trails.
  • 1 0
 after viewing/reading this I remembered the the song called..."your out of touch"
  • 2 1
 ".. and wasted a lot of play time on flow trails."
Goal for 2020, less flow more single track.
  • 2 0
 Where is the huck to flat???
  • 2 0
 Excellent review and test. Nice work RC
  • 2 0
 Ride on, RC. Don't be a stranger.
  • 1 0
 Nukeproof Mega Expert Build ($2999.) would have smoked those two bikes!! Jus' sayin'.
  • 2 0
 Thanks for everything Richard Cunningham, enjoy retirement.
  • 1 0
 A longish term review comparing and contrasting the Ibis Ripmo AF with coil and air shock would be killer.
  • 1 0
 "These are my favourite, Guides!" Hmmm...
  • 1 0
 Love this review. RIPMO AF for the win!
  • 2 1
 "Guide R brakes to bring proven, four-piston stoppers" dude...seriously???
  • 1 4
 Anything above 5 k for a mountain bike is just a pure rip off. As you get older you realize that. It's not a motorcycle nor is it a car. It's a bike with no motor and the parts that make up a bike don't cost very much to mass produce. When companies making these products have been doing it for 30 plus years or more Smile happy ridding .
  • 2 1
 Under $3k? Those are $3k bikes, which isn't affordable.
  • 6 5
 "affordable"
  • 12 13
 Santa Cruz 1, Germany 0. This is inarguable scientific proof that smoking dank bud is good for your brain!
  • 4 5
 I can't believe you people are down voting peer reviewed science (I mean we are peer mountain bikers, and we've all viewed the article)! Sad.

Maybe I came off as too harsh? Let me walk it back a little by noting that I've been to Freiburg, and given the smell in the air in every public park in that town the Germans are training hard to close the mountain bike engineering gap. But Santa Cruz is so far ahead that it's gonna take a strict early education policy for the Teutonics to catch up. At minimum 10mg gummies at snack time at all German kindergartens, 20mg at the Montessoris.
  • 2 2
 @hankj: I am with you! But only half way. You forgot the shrooms!
  • 8 1
 @WAKIdesigns: fantastic insight WAKI.

Shrooms are choked down by the bushel in Santa Cruz. That certainly accounts for the Ripmo's next-level small bump sensitivity. Nothing like shrooms for making you sensitive to the small bumps.

I've read that your berserking ancestors ate lots of magicmushroom too. Explains the tailgate pads they've found on every well-preserved Viking ship!
  • 3 2
 @hankj: I am from Poland and live in Sweden. I used to be an avid woodland mushroom picker, we had family excursions to the woods, some of the best childhood memories. However it is because of Joe Rogan podcast I got interested in magic mushrooms. It took me 2 seasons to learn to find them, I finally did. Liberty Caps can be found around but it is nothing compared to what is said about NorCal and PNW. I also tried the legendary mushrooms from the Scandinavian and Syberian mythology, namely Fly Agaric. Inwas greatly disappointed. It takes plenty of mushrooms and lots of work to get any effect, unless you want to go through painful process of consuming them raw and puking. However... I discovered a brother of Fly Agaric, the Panther Cap. And it’s really good.

I wish to thank Californians for it’s work in improving humanity. I hope one day we too can enjoy the liberties that your fine nation is cultivating
  • 1 1
 @WAKIdesigns: you, sir, are a bonafide psychonaut. Bravo and godspeed.

For my part I nearly totally quit cannabis maybe 8 years ago when it became legal. It all seemed too easy all of a sudden. Mushrooms etc I have no connect for a long time now, definitely not picking my own, not really interested in going deep anyways. Life is weird enough in the USA nowadays!
  • 1 0
 @WAKIdesigns: helps on the re-wiring.
  • 1 1
 @bbr: I am would love to get my hands on spore prints of certain domestic US mushrooms... for laboratory purposes only.
  • 1 0
 @WAKIdesigns: truffles as well...
  • 1 1
 Where are the weights? Have to know the weights.
  • 2 0
 Do you even lift bro?
  • 1 0
 @fruitsd79: Dude, I am so pumped. You would probably mistake me for Hans or Franz from Saturday Night Live.
  • 1 0
 ROCKY MOUNTAIN SLAYER
  • 1 1
 What is aluminum?
  • 1 2
 $3K is "affordable?"
  • 2 2
 YES! "Real" full suspension mountain bikes start a little under $2000 US and go all the way to $10K! So $3000 is definitely on the low end! Just saying.
  • 1 4
 So Spectral has Horst Link suspension wth ?
  • 1 0
 FSR variant
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