For some riders, climbing is a necessary evil, something that's endured only to reap the reward of a long descent, while others have a more masochistic take, and find enjoyment in the challenge and suffering that accompany a grueling climb.
I'll admit, as much as I like bombing downhill, there's also a twisted part of me that doesn't mind grinding uphill for hours at a time, or trying to figure out how to get through a steep puzzling section of trail that's full of slippery roots and rocks. Some of that may be due to my East Coast upbringing – the trails I cut my teeth on were full of punchy ascents, often with a downed log or two to make things even more challenging. Of course, back then I was riding a hardtail with three chainrings up front, a seven or eight-speed cassette in the back, and some sweet Onza bar ends.
It's a different world now, one where cassettes are bigger than brake rotors, with enough gear range to get up just about anything. Geometry and suspension designs have evolved as well, and there's no shortage of bikes out there that climb and descend remarkably well. But that doesn't mean that all bikes are alike when it comes to climbing performance – head tube angle, seat tube angle, chainstay length, and the suspension layout of a bike are just a few of the factors that make a difference in how a bike handles.
There's no hard and fast rule as to what constitutes a good climber either – a super steep head angle may make the front end of a bike handle very quickly, giving the bike a more energetic feel, but does that mean it's a better climber than something slacker with more subdued manners? Not necessarily. The truth is, a lot of it comes down to personal preference.
Take that little lever that's found on most air shocks these days, the one that's used to firm up the rear suspension in order to reduce any energy-sapping motion. Mike Levy, my fellow tech editor and downcountry specialist, likes to call it a 'cheater switch,' and prefers bikes that perform best with it left open all the time. As for myself, I don't mind making use of the lever every so often – I'm more concerned with how the rear suspension feels on the descents. Not needing to use it is a nice bonus feature, since it's one less thing to think about out on a ride, but a more active suspension platform isn't necessarily a deal breaker for me.
Which camp do you fall into? Is climbing a crucial point of consideration when choosing a bike, or does downhill performance weigh more heavily? Cast your vote below.
Just look at my pictures here at pinkbike: not one of them even E-bike related......
I wish to consign every future upvote that I will ever make to instead be re-assigned to this comment... Deal?
I love my SRAM 50 ring in back with a 30 up front because I care that my pedals are turning.
You still have a 3 way switch on them but they also have the valve which does what you request.
Dgaf about suspension design, the way I pedal it doesn’t seem to matter. I prefer the shock wide open all the time, I find it hilarious pedalling into rocks to pass the time climbing.
I can not believe that you could create good kinematics for descending and also have a good climbing , pedal efficient bike. The shock must be f*cking rock solid if you close it. That's it to create the perfect Enduro Bike for me.
If I don’t want to take the bike out because it peddles sh1t, then I will hardly use it...
I demoed many bikes to find the replacement. It was a tie between a pivot firebird and an s-works enduro. Both climbed way better than the capra 2018, and both were nearly as plush on the downs. I ended up with the enduro purely because it fitted me better, even though geo is almost identical it felt a bit bigger. Now I ride this bike 1-2 times a week instead of once a month
Yes the mark 1 capra was a much better climber. If it works for you keep it!!!
I ride 3-5 times a week, covering 50+ miles off road and 5000-10000ft climbing, even through the winter...
I don’t have time to get my legs any stronger!
It was the worst climber I’d had for some time (ever?)
I realised there was no point having a bike I never wanted to climb. It was meant to be a DH bike for my local hills but with DH parts on it and a crap pedalling position (good luck getting a dropper to the right height in the tiny seat tube on the mediums) I felt I’d never want to take it out unless to the bikepark. In which case why not take DH bike. Probably the exact reason Commencal stopped selling them. It’s a bit of a half assed conversion from Supreme DH imo, it doesn’t quite work as an all mtn machine, at least not the way I wanted with DH tyres etc.
Glad you seem to be liking yours but I’m much happier with a trail bike/ dh bike combo than what I felt was quite a compromised combo of the two.
Thanks for the info mate. I see where you are coming from. Well said. The seat tube on the L works out ok with a reverb.
I hate those PB reviews and other media reviews where they say they don't even flip the lever. I see the reviews for my frame and can not understand what the idiots writing about it. Looks like they say the same shit to every bike more or less. Doesn't make any sense. The only people I know who don't use the shock lockout and fork are people who don't climb regular and even then they are way worse with a better climbing geo bike with a shock who can lockout better then I am...
I don’t think anyone should feel bad and certainly not feel good depending on whether they use a pedal function on their shock or not. I was just trying to explain that the suspension is not my concern when going uphill that’s all.
I let the shock open if it is a more plane not so steep ascent with a lot of smaller objects. But most of the time it is steep with higher roots and rocks sometimes big enough to hit the BB. There I want a stiff rear to jump or push over them because the pedals are blocked. If I doesn't lock the rear it will sink down to 70% sag and is set to 28% with full gear.
Well the point I want to make was about geometry and the possibility of really block your shock to increase the climbing much more then pure weight can do. If the suspension kinematics on the bike are bad for pedaling there is a shock who can just be stiffed to eliminate it.
2) my bike is reasonably efficient, and I have no problem keeping up with the people I ride with, so extra efficiency doesn't ultimately gain me that much.
3) I always forget to unlock it before the descent.
The best trails have both challenging climbing and rowdy, consequential descending. Even the best shuttle runs (Ribbons to Lunch Loops trailhead via Gunny or Mag 7 to Portal come to mind) have enough technical climbing to keep you honest and descents hard enough to keep you humble. A good bike handles both tasks with aplomb.
You're both right.
DH is fun and a great way to build skills, but a complete skillset also includes the ability to ride up hard stuff too. The cool thing is that a modern $3-4k bike (Giant Trance, Stumpjumper etc.) will handle anything short of the gnarliest black DH trails and still climb well enough for a beer league XC race. Riders used to have to choose a bike that rode up well or descended well, but that isn't a problem on most new trail bikes. Even if you run a shuttle, being able to ride up AND down on gnarly trails allows for more interesting and challenging riding.
Then I thought about my descents and, whilst I like to think I'm relatively proficient/skilled I do it for fun rather than racing, I decided that if my buddy beats me down the hill by an extra 15secs then I'm technically spending more time having fun!
Logic.
(I've ended up with a not so slack enduro bike as I still like to hit up downhill tracks and uplifts on the rare occasions I can... Best of both worlds...)
For me, Climbing Performance is for the masochist.
Give me a chairlift and some beer and I'm happy.
Whats up with that the Billion dollar ski industry? Wrong? You should have to earn your turns? Sure, good luck with that.
What is the Climbing Performance of this? lenzsport.com/ski-bikes/launch
By all means, my Darkside moves faster when I pedal.... I just prefer not having to.
For the people that think fun must come with suffering.... You go ahead and have your fun and Ill have mine. I work at work then I play at play.
It only really shines ob technical climbs but then you have nearely unlimited traction.
Climbing a steep and technical section is as good as doing the thing pointing downhill
Vert, 2400m distance.
I have also found that different linkages favor different sags. This bike needs a 25% to ride right for me. Less sag gets rough. More sag wallows. VPP usually has me sagging at around 30% and feeling a touch rougher on small bumps.
For those who say the climb without the switch for the sake of traction, how old are your rear shocks? Locked out still gives me a bit of uninhibited travel and the valving allows for use of all six inches in case of a big bump.
Climbing is overrated ever you can put feet to the ground a do a small hike if is needed.
Anyway, long climb, flip switch but it can stay there if the trail is smoothish and has lots of flow. If the climb is just a short punch climb in the midst of a rough trail, leave it open and bang the pedals. Horses for courses. A remote for the rear switch on the handlebar wouldn't go astray but not the twin loc thing "Great" Scott has going for themselves as I find it rare that one needs to deal with the front end.
Climb switches work great if you climb for long periods of time, but not everyone has terrain like that. Up-down-up in quick succession is the name of the game around here with not enough time to operate a switch. So locally I require a bike that climbs well without the use of a switch.
Most people can descend 95% as fast on a good hard trail/ light Enduro bike as they could on a full DH rig anyways. There is hardly any difference these days. But on the climbs the DH bike is useless. You give up so much and gain so little with how extreme some of these bikes have become. It's not the geometry as much as it is the rear suspension and weight, for me personally that dictates climbing performance. And as a result I ride a long HIGH bike that also climbs really well.
I see some riders that are really focused on going fast downhill, large jumps and what not, and to you guys, I say you are doing it wrong. Buy a dirt bike and head to the track, as it does all of that much better.
Is my bike more geared towards climbing or descending? I really don't know. It has got longer reach than what I had before so I've got more room to put my weight exactly where I want it. I guess that's the main thing. Get a bike that doesn't obstruct you anywhere. If your kneepads hit the bars when climbing then yes it is too short. And I really wanted my top tube so low that I still had my knee above it even with the cranks level. But other than that, just ride the damn thing.