First Ride: Zipp Enters the Mountain Bike World With New 3Zero Moto Carbon Wheels

Apr 8, 2019
by Mike Kazimer  



Zipp are typically associated with the leg shaving, gram counting, aero-obsessed side of the cycling world, but that's about to change with the launch of the new 3Zero Moto carbon wheels. Made in Indianapolis, Indiana, the wheels use a single wall rim design that's intended to deliver a level of compliance and traction unlike anything currently on the market.

The initial concept of a single wall rim was brought to the table in 2012, but other projects took priority until 2016 when the idea was revisited. It wasn't a quick process - Zipp's engineers experimented with over 112 different laminate configurations and six different resins on their way to creating the final product.
Zipp 3Zero Moto Details

• Intended use: trail / enduro
• Single wall carbon fiber rim
• 32 hole, 3-cross lacing
• 37.5mm external, 30mm internal width
• Hub: 4 pawls, 52 points of engagement
• Weight: 1910 grams (29") / 1825 grams (27.5")
• Laid up and molded in Indianapolis, USA
• Lifetime warranty
• Price: $1,999 USD / $700 rim only
www.zipp.com

The wheels are built for aggressive trail riding, and while they're designed to handle all of the rigors of enduro racing - Adrien Dailly and Jerome Clementz have had podium appearances with them - Zipp stress that they aren't meant for DH or e-bike riders. In other words, if you have a dual crown fork or a motor on your bike, these aren't the wheels for you.

In addition to being pre-taped and ready for tubeless tire installation right out of the box, the wheels are equipped with TyreWiz for easy tire pressure monitoring. The TyreWiz app allows riders to set their preferred tire pressure, and then a light on the valve-stem mounted device blinks red or green to signal if the pressure is correct. Even if you don't have a smartphone with you, the LED will still indicate whether or not the pressure needs to be adjusted.

The low profile rim shape gives the wheels a featherweight look, but they're actually not the lightest option out there – the 27.5” version weighs a claimed 1825 grams, and the 29” model is 1910 grams. The rim alone weighs between 535 - 565 grams depending on the size. The complete wheelset is priced at $1,999 USD, or the rims are available for $700 each.


Zipp 3Zero Moto carbon wheels
The rim shape does require an extra layer of nylon rim tape to keep the spoke nipples from poking through, and care needs to be taken to get the spoke length right.

Details

The vast majority of carbon mountain bike rims on the market have a very similar shape to their aluminum counterparts, which isn't that surprising – the box shaped profile is a proven design that's been around since the 1930s. It's an effective way to create a stiff and strong rim, but it's also possible to create a rim that's too stiff, especially when carbon fiber is used.

Zipp 3Zero Moto carbon wheels
The 3Zero Moto rim is designed to flex out of the way during an impact.

Drawing inspiration from the single wall rim profile used on motocross motorcycles, Zipp's engineers came up with a rim shape that's actually designed to pivot from side to side around the spokes. Now, this isn't the first single walled carbon mountain bike rim to hit the market - Mello Boumeester debuted his carbon rim design in late 2014, but at the moment single wall rims are still a rarity. Zipp call the rim's motion around the spokes "ankle compliance," stating that it “allows the rim to locally flex and stay parallel to the ground during cornering, which increases traction much like a human ankle.” That motion is also claimed to help prevent pinch flats and rim damage compared to a traditional, more rigid box shaped rim. According to Zipp, during the development of the wheels 37 riders rode over 35,000 miles with only two reported pinch flats.


Zipp 3Zero Moto carbon wheels
That's one of the early rim profiles on the left, and the final iteration on the right.

The wheels are built with 32 spokes in a three-cross pattern in order to help spread out the load that's placed on each individual spoke. There's also a washer under each nipple to prevent them from digging into the rim itself. The rims are designed specifically for use with Boost or SuperBoost hubs – the wider bracing angle of those hubs is needed to provide enough lateral stiffness.

The ZM1 hubs use a four pawl design, with 52 points of engagement - that equates to 6.9-degrees of crank rotation between engagement points. There are Hyperglide and XD driver options for the hub, but no Microspline - riders that are keen on running an XTR drivetrain will need to purchase 3Zero Moto rims and build up their own wheelset.
Zipp 3Zero Moto carbon wheels

What's the benefit of the 3ZeroMoto wheels over a set of aluminum wheels? According to Zipp, the wheels are able to survive impacts that would completely destroy an aluminum rim, and do a better job of damping low power, high-frequency impacts, the type of forces that can lead to hand and arm fatigue.


Zipp 3Zero Moto carbon wheels
Zipp 3Zero Moto carbon wheels
There are multiple Speed Line stripe color options available for that extra level of customization.

Zipp 3Zero Moto carbon wheels
Zipp 3Zero Moto carbon wheels
TyreWiz is included with all wheelsets. It's a simple, lightweight device that makes it easy to monitor tire pressure via an app or the blinking LED on the unit itself.






I attended a simulated test session hosted by Zipp in Sintra, Portugal, which followed a similar format to what was used during the development of the 3Zero Moto wheels. Riders started by taking a few laps on their own wheels, then switched to the 3Zero Motos, and then back to their original setup, taking notes between each lap. The tire model and air pressure was the same on all of the wheels in order to keep things as consistent as possible.

I started out on a set of Roval Traverse carbon wheels, which I reviewed earlier this year. They're stiff and precise without being overly harsh, and they've held up well to everything I've thrown at them. In short, a good benchmark to compare the 3Zero Moto wheels to. Once those first laps were completed, I made the swap to the 3Zero Moto wheels. Part way through my first lap on the Zipp wheels it became apparent that there was a clear difference, and a significant one at that. The Zipp wheels were noticeably more compliant, but this wasn't a case of carbon wheels feeling like aluminum – it was a different sensation altogether. It felt like there was more 'give' to the wheels, but they still had plenty of support for hard cornering and landing jumps and drops.


Zipp 3Zero Moto carbon wheels


One section of trail had an extended straightaway that was full of roots covered by an inch or so of dust. Those hidden roots made it tricky to hold a line; letting off the brakes, looking ahead and hanging on for the ride seemed like the best tactic. With the Roval wheels, I had to really focus to keep the bike tracking the way I wanted it to due to all of those repeated, erratic impacts. On the 3Zero Moto wheels it was a different story – there was a level of traction that wasn't present with the Rovals, and it was much easier to keep the bike heading the way I wanted it to.

When I switched back to the Roval wheels, the difference in handling became even more clear. The Rovals felt stiffer and more precise, but they didn't offer the same level of grip and resistance to deflection as the 3Zero Moto wheels. They also transmitted more feedback into my hands and forearms – the 3Zero Motos had a much more 'comfortable' ride feel, similar to what running 20 psi versus 30 psi in your tires feels like.

Zipp's claims of compliance, pinch flat prevention, and superior impact resistance to aluminum rims are sure to raise some eyebrows, but I'm convinced the 3Zero Moto wheels have the potential to offer a significant performance benefit by delivering a very noticeable increase in traction and comfort in rough conditions. Keep in mind that a few rides doesn't constitute a full review – I'm going to keep putting the miles in on these wheels in order to test out those durability claims. I'm also curious if comfort leads to better lap times out on the trail, and how a bike will handle with a Zipp wheel up front and a stiffer wheel in the back, or vice versa. The 3Zero Motos are a very interesting new option, a direct challenge to the 'stiffer is better' mantra that's often touted in regards to carbon wheels.








330 Comments

  • + 166
 Not an engineer but I don’t believe that rim picture is illustrating lateral flex. Lateral flex would be left-right displacement like a rim that’s out of true. Twisty twisty is usually called torsional flex.
  • + 39
 My opinion is lateral flex is unwanted. In every situation. Twisty twisty is ver intersting, to say the least.
  • + 7
 @Notmeatall: 100% agree with you and NSBS. Lateral flex introduces a taco shape to the wheel. Bad. Small torsional flex would be much less detrimental to the wheel's shape while moving. I'd love to see the analysis.
  • + 3
 This flex at the rim will result in lateral flex at the tire, which is the best suspension your bike has when leaning
  • + 6
 @Notmeatall: having some form of lateral compliance is not always a bad thing in a super stiff setup
  • + 25
 @north-shore-bike-shop, you're correct. The caption's been updated.
  • + 141
 Is twisty twisty measured in ugga-duggas or boing-boings?
  • + 3
 @enduroFactory: Right, and I’m sure the diagram is exaggerated to illustrate the effect to us peasant minds too.
  • + 4
 @smokinsnakes: It's on the ugga-dugga measurement scale.
  • + 22
 I can completely understand how they got these two ideas mixed up. I AM an engineer(or used to be anyways. dreadful boring line of work), and it still takes some attention and thought to keep them straight(pun intended). the Tortional rotation is independant of axial or lateral deflection. They even say in the write up that these are only for use with boost or super boost because the wider brace angles are needed to keep lateral deflection at bay. I would be very interested to know what the spoke nipple interface looks like, becuase I would assume there is a fair bit of movement there when the rim flexes.....just like an ankle. Our ankle has wearable parts in it that the body rebuilds(cartilage). How does Zipp approach this? will I need to rebuild the wheel every year? lol
  • + 23
 I actually did quite a bit of looking into this design while in school making molds for UAV aircraft. The only reason my professor and myself could come up with for a single wall design was ease of manufacture, no bladders or anything of the like needed for the internal cavity. A hollow cross section will carry the stress, hoop stress, much more efficiently than a solid profile, hence the weight penalty. I really liked this idea for the simplicity of manufacture and just the cool factor of looking more like a moto rim, but unless the cost trickles down (maybe not possible due to more carbon needed to make the rim), IMO, its just another marketing ploy. I'd love to see some tests and experiments backing some of the claims, especially that torsional flex claim. Hopefully I'm wrong and its actually works well! Give us some real data!
  • + 1
 @enduroFactory: that's what she said
  • + 23
 @conoat, there's a washer under the nipples that should help deal with the movement. Once I get a bunch of miles in on these I'll take a close look at that area and see if anything's amiss.
  • + 7
 @mtbrider119: it's kind of amazing that you and your professor looked over the fact that with this monolithic structure's impact resistance at the bead is way higher. a twin wall Rim of the same weight will no doubt be stiffer. but if it doesn't need to be stiffer and it needs to be smashed into things this is how you make them, that's why motorcycle rims are made this way.
  • + 56
 @conoat: You must be a former engineer because you waited until your second sentence to mention it. A practicing engineer must start all statements with, "As an engineer..."
  • + 40
 @acali: As an engineer, I can vouch for this statement.
  • - 8
flag Grmasterd (Apr 8, 2019 at 12:46) (Below Threshold)
 As someone who is on Pinkbike to much I use that as my mechanical engineering degree substitute. As someone who has 'engineer' in their job title I'm surprised how much we trust these idiots
  • + 15
 i won't buy anything for my bike unless it specifically says "no twisty twisty" on the box.
  • + 7
 @Baoas: as an engineer, I like twisty twisty. I’m Industrial so all this material science stuff is well above my pay grade.
  • + 2
 @mtbrider119: my understanding is that its not really just the rim that bends all that much, though it does, but the junction between the rim and nipples. would have to see it up close though.

also i'd be worried about durability. they claim at least one set of wheels made about 1000 miles. but in what conditions.. and my wheels already have way over 1000 miles with no issue anyway. I feel like you want 10k miles for one set of wheels, tested on multiple sets. also was it 1000 miles no touch? did they true them up? etc.
  • + 12
 So there's 32 more places for a creak to develop on these bad boys compared to a conventional wheel?
  • + 4
 @Notmeatall: You'd have a lot more breakage on drops and slippage on off camber sections if some flex isn't engineered in the wheel and frame
  • + 4
 @mikekazimer: who knew nipples
and ankles would form a team like no other, except for Starsky & Hutch, Ponch & Jon, Gwin & Mullally...
  • + 8
 @conoat: your ankles rebuild themselves? I need to check the warranty on mine then. They’re about torsioned out.
  • + 0
 @smokinsnakes: Might have to get Bruni to weigh in here
  • + 1
 Once again The asking price is ridiculous, since they are also making a lots of money from the data capture on the App. Shame on them.
  • - 4
flag chyu (Apr 8, 2019 at 20:23) (Below Threshold)
 What if the rim flexes and never return to original position.
  • + 4
 @Baoas: As an engineer, I can admit I’m not always right!
  • + 2
 @chyu: Same thing as when our folks told us not to make that face so much cause it would get stuck like that...
  • - 4
flag stuie321 (Apr 8, 2019 at 23:02) (Below Threshold)
 @Grmasterd: yes, for pretty much everything you interact with throughout every day of your life.
Based on how ignorant your comment is I am guessing you have no idea how dependent you really are on engineers for everything from utilities, to transport (and bicycles), to accommodation, to software, etc, etc, etc.
  • + 0
 @krashDH85: Who knew that was a thing even on the other side of the world!?
  • + 0
 @mikekazimer: did nico have any input into the design as I recall he opted once to run a alloy rim rear for lateral flex to save tyres on a big hit.
  • + 1
 @englertracing: Correct, a hollow cross section rim and a solid profile rim of the same weight, the hollow section will undoubtedly be stiffer. But you can achieve the same stiffness with a noticeably lighter rim using a more standard hollow cross section design compared to the solid design. I'm not saying there are not some good characteristics to this design, just that the weight to strength ratio is relatively higher compared to a twin wall design and that it in theory should hopefully be a more cost effective design. But, I don't believe that it is a superior design/value to the standard hollow cross section design. Again, not trying to bash on this or anything, just would like to see more data to back the claims.
  • + 1
 @acali: LOL. I did indeed say I no longer practice. so you're saying engineers, crossfitters and vegans
are the same? Smile
  • + 1
 @conoat: You forgot ski instructor.
  • + 1
 @mikekazimer: I think this will be key to the longevity of the rims... Very curious how the spoke beds hold up under all this flexion.
  • + 125
 This calls for a review from Mr Aston in Finale.
  • + 23
 He will be missed.
  • + 6
 @Konyp: He's not writing for PB any more?
  • + 24
 Too opinionated?
  • + 80
 @Konyp: 3 days after the ENVE review..... hmmmm
  • + 180
 @notphaedrus: That Enve review was the single most best piece of reviewing this site has ever seen.
  • + 15
 @notphaedrus: good for him. standing on his principles.
  • + 53
 Don’t worry, the Whistler Bike Park is an excellent testing ground as well - these will get put through the wringer. Finale probably has better gelato, though.

Also, Aston and PB parted ways for reasons completely unrelated to that review.
  • + 39
 @leviatanouroboro Agreed.
@notphaedrus No. If we didn't stand behind the Enve review we wouldn't have published it.
  • + 0
 @jclnv: Too Dh oriented...go figure
  • - 1
 *double post*
  • + 1
 @Naturel: yeah, I'm glad you get irony...........go....figure?
  • + 8
 @mikekazimer: Genuinely looking forward to your thorough and unbiased review of these. I really like how well rounded your reviews are compared to some other reviewers who essentially wrote more about their personal preferences and biases than the actual pro's and con's of products.
  • + 4
 @notphaedrus: sounds like he's dining with Amanda batty at this point!
  • + 7
 @leviatanouroboro: Agreed. The credibility of the PB went through the roof for me after that.
  • + 2
 Paul is a great rider and a very funny gent too.... I know he'll be successful whatever direction he goes. I'm looking forward to catching up and riding again in Finale! Or nearby...
  • + 1
 @notphaedrus: can't find that enve review. source?
  • + 2
 @pinhead907: thank you.
  • + 9
 @mikekazimer: As much as I'd like to believe it, this may or may not be true. Worked with too many HR departments to blindly trust these statements lol.

In any case I do hope future review will be as genuine! I understand that it may mean you get less samples and tests in the future, but damn, he echoed what we all knew to be true and that was nice.
  • - 8
flag scary1 (Apr 8, 2019 at 15:29) (Below Threshold)
 @Naturel: jesus christ. PinkBike "supposed" to be a gravity website getting rid of the dh guy while we ALL know alot of content on here is no longer gravity fed. For f*cks sake.
  • + 4
 @scary1, we have plenty of gravity-oriented content on the way - there are a bunch of interesting new DH bikes being released this season.
  • + 2
 @leviatanouroboro: the one time a journalist is honest and not bought off with free kit and they sack hi
m
  • + 0
 Ah crap, his reviews were far and away the best here!
  • + 1
 @mikekazimer: With or without a motor ?? Big Grin
  • + 2
 @brianpark: good point, well put
  • + 32
 So if these rims are literally pivoting about the nipple base as shown in the illustration, wouldn't there be inevitable and cumulative abrasion? (EDIT - now see later comments above re: nipple washers, so apparently this was a concern. Now my question is how long will it take to start squeaking? Wink )
Also, they state that this "ankle-ing" is too excessive if used on 142mm hubs, but fine on 148mm and 157mm hubs, So apparently the behavior is so sensitive to bracing angle of the spokes that the ~ 0.5 degree difference between boost and non-boost is a deal breaker. If one accepts that premise, then why wouldn't the ankle-ing behavior also be radically different between left turns and right turns? The limiting bracing angle on a rear hub is typically > 2 degree difference side to side, far greater than the difference between boost and non-boost. In theory the offset nipple drilling apparent in the photo could counteract that, but then you'd also have dramatically different "effective lever length" of the rim cross section, which would also cause substantially different scale of ankle-ing on turns of one direction versus another.
  • + 23
 You sir apply far too much common sense in an industry that subsists almost entirely on solid marketing blurb.
  • + 3
 As you stated offset rim drilling and the appropriate hub flange dimensions make it possible to achieve perfectly equal spoke tension from side to side. I'd guess that in order to achieve this optimal spoke balance without requiring either a larger offset (>4-6mm) or narrow bracing angle (6*) they chose to only offer boost or super boost hubs. Sure you could lace the rims to non-boost hubs and for most trail riders it'd likely be fine but if the spokes unload frequently from hard cornering or G-outs they would likely wear quickly and snap prematurely.
I doubt these things 'ankle' as much as the marketing seems to imply. My guess is the ride feel comes more from the single wall low profile nature of the rim (like the mentioned Boumeester rims) than from the so-called 'ankling'.
That's the comparative test I'd love to see from Mike, these Zipp 3zeros vs the Boumeester Tammar vs Mr. Boumeesters latest product the Crankbrothers Synthesis.
  • + 31
 These look awesome. Actual progression rather than just made up nonsense and buzzwords. I look forward ti the full review.
  • + 6
 Agreed. This is the first time I see a carbon rim that actually seems to bring an improvement I'd be interested in. I wouldn't go out and buy this one immediately, but I may be interested in a future generation.
  • + 11
 @vinay: you probably missed Bowmeester's wheelsets from like 3yrs ago... www.ambmag.com.au/news/first-look-bouwmeester-tammar-v48-carbon-wheels-429636
  • + 2
 @El-Warpo: At $3499 I know why I missed them but I see your point.
  • + 1
 @shotouthoods: that's in Australian dollars so easily knock a thousand off that price for USD
  • + 1
 @redbeard104: thanks I missed that. I should have stuck with “What these are 2grand? I guess i will keep riding DT Swiss alloy wheels sets leftover on eBay for a grand.”
  • + 0
 Which article/press release did you read that wasn't full of made up nonsense and buzzwords? It sure as hell wasn't this one.
  • + 5
 @El-Warpo: Not sure if the article was edited after your post, but it currently indeed mentions the Bouwmeester rims. That said, I hadn't heard of them before indeed.

@Ttimer: To be honest I don't think this article is dripping with buzzwords and all that. But that isn't my point. Most of the carbon rims I've seen (not including the Bouwmeester ones indeed) are what we call "black metal design" products (not related to rock music). That is, they take a design optimized for aluminium production and performance and make it out of this very different material, merely doing some redimensioning. Hollow profiles are really easy and cheap to extrude out of aluminium and it is equally easy to form these into a hoop. To do that with a composite however is just so much more difficult, I don't get why they'd even bother. Instead what they did here at Zipp is produce a rim in a way that suits the material (I expect it to be wound out of a single fiber) and tune it for what advantages such a more flexible rim (due to the lower height) would give you. That's good. Obviously the holes for rims and spokes are still a bit of a compromise but I get that they did try to make it suit conventional (hub and spoke) systems. Inspired by these older coaches with wooden wheels (as carbon composite is more like wood than metal) one thing to try would be to use thick stiff spokes loaded in compression. A bit like Spengle does but they would still want that ball joint between spoke and rim so that would make it too complex. So yeah for now what I like about this concept is that they looked at the strengths the material and related production process would give to the product and designed around that.

Though as I said, I prefer to be at the tail end of technological progress. I'll give them some more time to process the feedback (and warranty claims) from early adopters, probably tweak the design and resin formulation a little (always wary of delamination the more a composite is designed to flex) and obviously allow them to adapt to this new 26" wheelsize. So yeah, maybe in a couple of years they'll release their 26" rim without Quark sensor, 25% heavier, thermoplastic resin, aluminium center channel to do away with the holes in the composite, version with a lower price. That's when it gets interesting. Obviously I welcome all early adopters to invest and make sure their subsequent versions are even better. That said, compared to other carbon rims currently on the market, for a rim with lifetime warranty and a Quark sensor, the price seems on par.
  • + 2
 I want to know how ZIPP knows what you was riding, the article says not a dual crown fork or motor attached.
So what is my 180mm travel SC rig then? It alwo has 195mm of rear travel. This sounds like they could easily take that lifetime warranty from you with this reason. Also a wheel set that heavy what is not good enough for DH? The heck, my AL Newmen EG.30 are almost 200g lighter and are good for DH.
  • + 1
 @vinay: Fair enough that they make the rim in a shape that is suited to the material that they are working in. That would be great if there was some sort of substantial performance advantage at the end of that process.

Another way to look at it would be that they just make a simpler shape that is cheaper to produce with carbon.
The result is a rim that is heavier than a heavy duty alloy rim (EX511), compliant like an alloy rim, at best a little bit more impact resistant but costs rougly 5-7 times as much. Where is the substantial performance benefit?

Actual performance benefits (e.g. weight) might arise when using carbon fiber instead of steel spokes. Carbon rims would be a byproduct because it would allow the spokes to be laminated directly to the rim.
  • + 3
 Spokes laminated directly to the rim is more difficult than it sounds, because it is hard to keep the shrinkage the same when curing and with everything laminated, there will be no way to tune that afterwards. It may be within reason but well, that really depends on how accurate they can be during production.

It seems lots of people don't accept the weight increase (for the same application) over the conventional option and if that is such a big deal then I'd say this is just not an option for those. We've seen this before with suspension, disc brakes, dropper seatposts, tire inserts etc. Just like with suspension, the performance increase I see here is that if it really works are described in the article, it would be the increase in grip because of the compliance. Heavy wheels increase unsprung weight but if there is more suspension in the wheel itself (tire and rim deformation), this may not be entirely true. Same with a bike with suspension vs a lighter weight rigid hardtail. If you need the lighter wheels for quicker acceleration out of the start gate then yeah, the weight of these wheels may still give you a disadvantage.
  • + 1
 @vinay: I don't see the massive advantage of the damping in the tire Vs actual suspension.
If the price is lower I would not care about the weight. The thing I ask with that many weight how can those rims excluded eMTBs? What's the f*cking difference? Only 10 kg more , some riders don't need a Motor to be more heavy. A Freerider would punish wheel much more then a damn eMTB.
I also don't see how they make a difference between DH and enduro with way more Huck capabilities of modern Enduros.
  • + 1
 @vinay: You sir cannot be a real Mountain Biker as you are entirely too open minded of a new technology.

Seriously, one of the best answers in this whole forum, though I’m not an engineer. But it made sense to this layman.
  • + 20
 I’m all for new product development, and I definitely believe that wheels are a prime location for innovation and development. Innovation at or near contact points has the biggest potential for rider impact, really excited to see this develop over the next few years!

Also- doesn’t sram own Zipp? Interesting to see this fall under the Zipp brand.
  • + 3
 They dont have any pointless features or come in 28.99mm width so they couldnt possibly carry sram branding
  • + 9
 SRAM does own Zipp but they seem to stay fairly independent.
  • + 3
 Sram owns both Zipp and Quarq, which supplies the TyreWiz. There has been some cross-collaboration here.
  • + 16
 I agree the TPS monitor won’t be for everyone, but the LED go/no go light would be great for racing. I’ve taken to checking my pressure before every stage after a slow leak ended my race day a while back. Be pretty sweet to just look down and go, yup, ready to rock.
  • + 13
 Exactly. I was skeptical too, but so far it's been a lot more useful than I'd expected. I can just look at the blinking light before a ride and tell if more or less air is required without grabbing a pressure gauge or my phone.
  • + 2
 @mikekazimer: Is the TyreWiz with the LED available for other wheels? Looks like this option was design for the Zipp wheels on the quarq site. Not sure I can drop $2000 on a wheelset right now, but like @norcal101 says the TyreWiz would be nice on race day.
  • + 6
 @vertex66, yes, the other version, the one that looks like a little flag on your valve stem, also has an LED in it and works with all wheels.
  • + 1
 @mikekazimer: Sorry... double reply
  • + 2
 @mikekazimer: do you know if these will work with the cushcore valve stems or other tire insert stems?
  • + 2
 @lognar, as long as there's a removable Presta valve core they should work.
  • + 17
 As a self proclaimed expert, if they hold up like the Zipp road wheels, these shouldn’t make it out of the parking lot test.
  • + 16
 Huh, I've had the opposite experience with Zipp road wheels. I ride an 808/404 aluminum clincher set as my training wheels and I race on a 900 Tubular/808 Tubular set and I've only ever had awesome rides and good life out of them.

Just goes to show that for identical products you'll find every possible experience Smile
  • + 2
 @aks2017: Those are the strongest zipp wheels. Try their 202s and 303s, there is a reason you see so many Zipp front wheels for sale on e-bay, all the back wheels are broken. Also the hubs/bearings have traditionally been trash.
  • + 8
 @bikerbarrett:
I must be the one off. I have 303s on my gravel bike and have raced them in many very rough gravel races and they hold up fine. But I am a little guy at 6’4” 210. The main reason you see so many destroyed 303s is that they are used for so much cross racing where they are beat to shit.
  • + 9
 Been riding an ancient set of 404 carbon tubs for years/miles that haven't skipped a beat and I weigh 225, ridden on and off road. YMMV I guess!
  • + 7
 I raced 404s in Crits and they were problem-free, though that was in my lightweight days when I was only like 210. Also did tri for a while and 808s survived some crappy roads where I lived at the time.
  • + 4
 @sunringlerider: or because road racing crashes tend to wreck wheels
  • + 5
 @clink83: this is also true. As much as most pinkbike readers want to hate on roadies. Those dudes are tough. When they crash, my lawt, it’s quite a shit whipping.
  • - 2
 @aks2017: the issue is your sample size. Former zipp retailer, they had a ridiculous failure rate. Sold many carbon wheel brands, none sucked as as Zipp. Bearings were always a mess, hubshells exploding, bearings losing their seat, and rims that would crack and would almost never be under warranty. Things improved minorly after SRAM but minorly.
  • + 3
 @sunringlerider: Could be. I've broken two sets, not by crashing or racing cross, and I'm nowhere near as heavy as you. Also had cassettes seized onto the freewheel. Just did a quick ebay search, 209 results for zipp front wheel, 1 result for zipp back wheels. Smile . Maybe I got lemons though, anythings possible.
  • + 5
 @bubbrubb: I sold hundreds of ZIPP wheels in just the last couple of years and never had customers bring them back for the failures you described. Broken spokes and the occasional cracked rim are the most severe I've seen. It might also come to preparation. Because of the huge investment our customers make in carbon wheels, we check out every set of wheels we sell for spoke tension and bearing preload before we install them for our customers. We also follow up with a 90 day checkup.
  • + 1
 @sunringlerider: as bad as hitting a huge tree (basically a wall ) at almost 30 mph
  • + 17
 "My 1900g aluminum wheeler isn't strong enough!"

-nobody
  • + 2
 lol exactly , whats the point
  • + 2
 it depends. There are many theoretically strong aluminium wheelsets which are not worth spending 100bucks yet cost much more. Like every god damn wheel Shimano, WTB, Easton or American Classic have ever produced.
  • + 7
 @Silliker269: @ibishreddin Did you guys actually read the release? It's about compliance in very specific directions you dorks.
  • + 2
 -actually one time a 300lb dude that didnt know wallmart bikes arent real mountain bikes actually said that....
  • - 3
 @motomikey: yes I did. Carbon wheels that are compliant in the same way as aluminum with the same weight and 3x the price. Did you read?
  • + 6
 Also nobody- "I really want to pay $2000 for a 1900g wheelset"
  • + 2
 @ibishreddin: Except carbon rims are not going to dent at the first rock hit like aluminum rims would. So you get the ride quality of alloy rims, but they're not disposable.
  • + 2
 @Saving-Jones1013:
Wut? All my hard riding buddies won't go near carbon rims anymore... too many broken dreams.
  • + 12
 Is a tire pressure gauge too much of a hassle to use that now we need a Bluetooth sensor to tell us what the tire pressure is? This reminds me of car manufacturers doing stupid things like putting in an oil level sensor instead of sticking with using a dip stick that has worked for eons.
  • + 6
 And you must need and opposite weight on the rim to counteract for innertia unbalance right?
  • + 13
 @PauRexs: might as well put on a frame-mounted gyro, which you also have to control through an app. We went from "rims too skinny, tire sidewall doesn't have support" to "tuned rim/tire combo" to "the only good wheel is a stiff carbon wheel!" to inserting pool noodles inside the tires, and now all the way back to "hey this flex thing might a good afterall..."
  • + 1
 @PauRexs: Normal wheels are already unbalanced due to the valve. Pros have used weights to balance wheels in the past but it's never caught on. That sensor will only make it worse however.
  • + 3
 @AD4M: Also tire inserts as well. I had to use weights to balance my wheels.(cush core,dd casing,ex511's)
anything over 30 mph in the air and you could really tell how out of balance they were. I think it was close to 3.5 oz total.
  • + 0
 the dipstick requires you to know how to open the hood.

you have seen this latest generation, yes? :-)
  • + 4
 It might be targeted at knuckleheads like me--- I have a compressor with an accurate gauge in my garage and I still sometimes ride with too little air in my tires and pinch flat.
  • + 1
 Apparently some bloke called Sam Hill measures his tyre pressures with a "thumb gauge", whatever that is.
  • + 2
 @shotouthoods: everyone should just start throwing stainless steel balancing beads in their tires. Problem solved. But that first few pedal strokes is gonna be a biatch...
  • + 12
 Including TireWiz is genius. This will help with people getting a slow leak, bottoming out the tire and cracking the rim, and then blaming the rim manufacturer. It wont help with people like Aston who dont put air in on purpose though.
  • + 9
 @mikekazimer have you had a chance to try @danielsapp 's set of Crank Brothers Synthesis wheels? Curious how those 2 compare, as they have both been designed with a focus on compliance.

Personally I'm curious about how a rim can be laterally and vertically stiff, vertically compliant, yet still be able to have lateral 'twist' at any point in the rim engineered into the design.
  • + 8
 I feel like everyone has forgotten why moto rims are single wall to begin with... Cost vs strength. The whole design behind bicycle double wall rims was halving the thickness over taller area to offer comparable strength at lighter weight. One drawback is double wall rims make the eyelits too thin and can cause pullout, and the overall risk of damage would be much higher on a wide moto rim (smashing thin cross section of rim into rock is no bueno). Of course our tire systems are completely different for theirs. Double wall just doesn't make sense on moto. Single wall aluminum construction is a simpler aluminum extrusion process and single wall carbon is simpler hand layup production since there's no internal bladder. A single wall design should be anything but a premium price. Yes, I'm sure there's definitely some truth in radial compliance discussion (one can buy aluminum and forgo carbon if that's you're thing), but it's not exactly warm and fuzzes feeling like someone is capitalizing on blanket "Moto does it so it's better" marketing.
  • + 2
 @mtbrider119:
This. Again the bike industry is capitalizing on supposed performance gains even though the construction process ends up being cheaper. Somewhere some sucker is already drooling over the bro fame of being an early adopter anyways, hence why they don't even bother passing on these cost reductions to the consumer anymore. Just label it "new technology" and people will happily pay for your claimed "increased R&D cost" without any further questions.
  • - 1
 @Jamminator Carbon can be designed to have much more compliance than aluminum could ever dream of, but its not cheap. Even in a single wall design, and especially considering the r & d on a new product like this.

Not only are you comparing apples and oranges, but you have also misrepresented your apples and oranges.
  • + 0
 @Loki87: there is nothing cheap about the construction process of these wheels!
  • + 9
 When you publish the full review please include impressions from riders of different weights. Does their ankle flex work for a 100lb rider on 27.5 wheels? Are they noodles for 200lb+ riders on 29ers?
  • + 7
 Bouwmeester already did a similar design to this but cooler as the spokes holes were alternating and the spokes crossed the rim for a slight cross over lace design Also this weighs as much as reynolds DH wheel set that Reynolds is adamant is for DH, that Bernard Kerr Hucks the shit out of. But I do think this is a way forward for carbon.
  • + 5
 And bouwmeester liscensed to sram over the last couple of years, so this makes sense as zipp and sram are the same company. I remember seeing this design on some enduro racers bikes under a sram prototype label. Looks like they are trying to push zipp into the mtb side of things. They are beefy though, not too light
  • + 6
 @timbo: do you have a source on the licensing? I'd love to read up on it. Thank you.
  • + 2
 @timbo: Don't think that's the case at all. I think it's a blatant copy.
  • + 1
 Not sure if this was edited after your comment, but Bouwmeester was already mentioned in the article. For the twist Zipp is trying to achieve with this rim, I don't think the cross over spoke lacing is going to work. That said, I still don't get why the cross over spoke lacing is not more common in conventional wheels (which don't need to twist). It is a much more convenient way to increase the spoke angle than increasing hub with (boost and onwards).
  • + 1
 @vinay: Crossover will still work fine, the bottom spokes crossed or not are unloaded and have little resistance to torsional rotation of the rim itself. In the case of crossed over spokes, the side being lifted, will just lift/raise off the spoke nipple........
  • + 1
 @englertracing: Not sure how much that is, but if the spokes are unloaded too much (which is bad for fatigue life) they could puncture the rim tape. Mind you this is a single wall rim!
  • + 1
 @vinay: thats true,
but it works with the bouwmeester wheel.
  • + 1
 @englertracing: Yeah, this is just armchair engineering from my part. I can't test everything to develop a proper opinion. If it works and holds up well, it works and holds up well.
  • + 2
 My Reynolds Black Label Enduro wheels are the singles stiffest, built like a brick shithouse wheel I have ever ridden. I cannot fathom what it would take to explode one. I hucked to flat down a 10' drop and dropped the front tire directly on a knife edge rock. destroyed the tire, my chest slammed into the bars and I got bucked off sideways on the rebound. wheel was like, "pffffffft....pussy!"
  • + 1
 @conoat: meh, I have a set too, they are the 36mm internal that came with my pivot 5.5. So they are pretty stiff... Not as stiff as say a 26" 32h mavic 823...... And I had a rock come up and slap the top of my rim and crack it near the spokes....
  • + 10
 Ah, so Zipp actually had the idea before Boumeester but took 7 years to bring it to market. Riiiiiight
  • + 6
 Only thing im thinking about is the super low profile rim depth.. I understand moto being a strong influence in the bike industry, but id argue the reason moto's can get away with lower depth profile rim is because the tire structure is way different then in mtb, moto tire sidewalls are way way way stiffer and stronger then mtb tires. I dont know how confident I would feel having that shallow/flat of a rim profile. Also designing their rims to flex laterally but yet have them be a-symmetrical, wouldn't that mean one side of the rim is actually going to be stiffer then the other. (yes i know about wheel tension and all that jazz, Im just talking rim design)
  • + 5
 The rim is designed to be laterally stiff and is supposed to flex radially and torsionally. The side to side stiffness is still supposed to be there though.
  • + 5
 @qman11 I actually also thought about this. How could they be selling the torsional compliance and being asymmetrical. Absolutely right that It would be stiffer from one side than from the other.
  • + 3
 Spoke tension is different one side vs the other, this is very obvious so I'm 99.99% sure Zipp/SRAM has taken this into account and the forces are balanced.
  • + 2
 @downhiller900sl: drive side has different requirements than the brake side does
  • - 2
 @davec113: have you ever designed anything,
Sometimes compromises are compromises and theres things that youll take what you can get.
  • + 1
 there's a reason motorcycle rims aren't twinwall, for a like amount of material the twin wall will be stiffer but easier to buckle. Also when you're going to make the bead super huge for impact resistance it just sort of makes sense to go single wall and make it uniform wall thickness. makes even more sense when you're building the rim for heavy-duty use and it's already going to be stiff enough. If you tried to do one of these for XC use to get down to the weight that you want it would be a freaking noodle
  • + 1
 @englertracing: lol, the irony! You have no idea who I am. I design things for a living, have a ME degree and some significant design accomplishments in my field. But hey, just be a d-bag to everyone... how's that working for you?
  • + 3
 @davec113: I suspect the rim is pivoting essentially around the 'axis' defined by the spoke nipples, so spoke tension probably has little effect -- they aren't staggered very much.
  • + 1
 @davec113: you are wrong. There's is more tension in one side vs the other, BUT in an symmetrical rim. The asymmetrical layout is there to not have to have this difference in spoke tension or to minimize it as much as possible.

And my point is that if the spoke are running around a straight line along the rim (non centered, asymmetrical rim), there is one side of the rim being able to flexed more by the tire doing its cornering job, that the other. If you have a ME degree you should be able to see this. There will be just more leverage in one side than the other
  • + 2
 @downhiller900sl: Maybe but I doubt it. I think the bike would feel wrong if the rims had different "spring rates" one side to the other. They are VERY specific about what hub spacing works for these rims, and I believe there is a good reason for it. I also think this is an extremely obvious design consideration and would trust SRAM/Zipp to get it right.
  • + 9
 Wouldn't this flex require us to lube our nipples? I mean, I already do, but just sayin'...
  • + 6
 Copycat! this rim set is very, very close to BC Tammar rims mades by the Oz brand Bouwmeester. Hope they will be as strong as the original.
  • + 8
 $700 rim only, that's a bargain!
  • + 11
 I think I'm gonna take up drag racing - it's got to be cheaper.
  • + 5
 I really like those. But. If you look at the rim section the lack of inner cavity should mean that they are easier to mould than box section rims. So how does that not reflect in price or get discussed at all?
  • + 1
 Very good point! They are a lot less complex without the need for a removable / expendable cores
  • + 1
 Cool! I had some 48 spoke ACS wheels on my Dyno BMX bike, the rims held up but the hubs exploded after to many big drops.
  • + 3
 Sceptical. But not an engineer, so maybe I’m missing something? I don’t see any inherent difference in the nipple/rim interface. In a double wall rim the nipple attaches to only one wall. In the single wall rim this is thicker so might be able to be made a stiffer interface, not more fleet. There is more flex in the rim between the nipple and the bead. I’m imagining flapping my arms like an eagle, not doing the floss dance. But the magnitude of this compliance is small - maybe one mm? This is minuscule compared with the compliance of the Tyre. I run cushcore and can use slightly lower pressure than otherwise so get more compliance that way. I doubt I would notice much from the Zipp wheel - except more compliance in my thinner wallet
  • + 1
 Yeah interesting that they don't say how much it flexes, just an exaggerated drawing.
  • + 4
 Man, pb needs an analogue to the verified blue tick for all the engineers, maybe a little pink 'E' after the user handle. If only so I don't have to read "I'm an engineer" again.
  • + 5
 @mikekazimer .... the big money article is how you think these are compared to CB Synthesis who followed the same design philosophy asyou know !!
  • + 6
 For sure. @danielsapp is testing those at the moment, but a head-to-head comparison is a great idea.
  • + 6
 any australians here reckon this looks like the Bouwmeester Carbon rim frrom 2 years ago
  • + 4
 Seven years ago...
  • + 3
 shame for the copycat.
  • + 3
 It makes sense. When your tire deforms it isn’t doing the job it’s supposed to. If you could run more air with these then you’ll theoretically have a more consistent contact patch. I dig it
  • + 2
 Sure, 37 riders rode over 35,000 miles with only two reported pinch flats. But there is no mention of broken spokes or nipples? This design strikes me as prone to nipple failure in the long term.

I choose not to drink SRAM's characteristically sensationalist marketing kool-aid for now, but I look forward to reading the long term review.
  • - 2
 Sounds like some really slow weekend warriors I guess.
  • + 9
 @thesharkman: I’m sure. Most bike companies test with average joes. They never have pro riders do any product test. Nope never.
  • + 3
 @thesharkman: Designed in Indiana....mtb hot bed.
  • + 2
 Flex in frames, bars, wheels; such a tricky one to figure out when buying stuff - I agree that the right amount of flex makes sense but I wish there was some way to measure it; even if it was a made up subjective feeling unit like 'it scores a 3 on the stiffy scale' but something more scientific would be even better.
  • + 3
 If the claims for this are true I'd be surprised if there wasn't durability issues with nipples. The torque and point loading going through them from the rim rotating off axis would be significant.
  • + 3
 @jclnv: Have an updoot. There is no mention of nipple stress in this article! I find that to be a big red flag.
  • + 4
 @jclnv: read some reviews on the single walled bouwmeester wheels. They are scarce but they can be found.. i dont remeber reading aout nipple issues tho.
  • + 2
 @ondrejaugustin: I don't recall the original BM wheels to be designed to 'twist' for compliance; so nipple wear/abrasion wasn't an issue with that design
  • + 3
 Looking forward to the Ligurian rock test and a prolonged test These are the first carbon rims that actually appeal to me because the tech actually makes sense. Eat your shorts Enve!
  • + 3
 Needs to be super lively and compliant cause dt ex511 & 471 are pretty tough to beat. When your paying 6x the price it HAS to ve better. They look cool though.
  • + 1
 You’re*
  • + 1
 Now this a carbon rim I would love to try. The only carbon rim that makes sense to me. Thickness of the profile should make it robust and shape can potentially make it compliant. Offset for better spoke triangulation, you know something that EVERYONE should have been doing long time ago, so we would skip the Boost buillsht. Iam a fanboi right away
  • + 1
 agreed, excellent points.
  • + 1
 Take one of the stiffest materials known to man and apply it in a design that is purposely less rigid than mainstream designs. Make up a bunch of pseudo-engineering BS claims. Charge a crapload of money for it. Bike industry in a nutshell.
  • + 5
 No bruh, where's the video of Danny Macaskills review on these?
  • + 2
 somethings wrong here, they market these wheels as 3Zero Moto wheels,...for $2000usd....and theres no motor?
maybe I read the press realese too fast. Is the motor in the rear hub? help me out here.
  • + 1
 From my personal experience as a wheel builder, these rims are just more industry hype than anything else. When building hand built wheels you can easily tune flex into the wheel the 4 factors are, #1 spoke type for example Sapim CX Ray bladed spokes Verses Sapim 14 Gauge leader spokes, # 2 hole count 28 hole verses 32 hole, # 3 lacing pattern 2 cross verses 3 cross, And # 4 intended use & rider weight, a 155 LB. cross country rider does not need the same stiffness as a 185 LB. down hill rider. Last but by no means least CORRECT rim width, tire size, and air pressure for your style and type of riding will make a HUGE difference in grip and traction.
  • + 3
 Finally a use case for carbon in wheels that dont beat you up ot shatter on impact?
  • + 3
 These flexy flexy rims on a nice boingie boingie steel frame hardtail should be epic!
  • + 4
 Seems Brilliant. I'd love to try these.
  • + 3
 Until the American/European brands get a lot closer in price to the well known Chinese brands i'm out
  • + 1
 lol you can buy a set of WeAreOne Composites with DT350s for like $1500 Canadian, that is only a few hundred bucks more then what it would cost to build a nice alloy wheel set. That also includes lifetime warranty replacement, which with the lifespan of alloy rims, makes it worth it alone. Ive seen a few Chinese brand wheels absolutely detonate, and also known people who have gone through enough Chinese carbon rims, that they ended up just spending more money in the end to keep replacing them then they would have if they just bought wheels from a reputable brand with quality warranty. Yes you pay more, but in the end, the higher costs usually have their reasons
  • + 27
 I think one reason for the difference in price is that American & European brands have high 'R&D' costs whereas Chinese brands have much lower 'Ctrl-C' costs.
  • + 3
 @qman11: Agreed. And the Santa Cruz Reserves are only $1600, with a lifetime warranty. Last enduro wheelset I'll ever buy. Until they change the standards, welp.
  • + 3
 @slow-burn: even then though, just have them rebuilt with new hubs haha or sell them, and then buy a new set.
  • + 1
 @dingus: Is there even such a thing as a well known Chinese brand?
  • + 1
 @jaame: Made In China is the only one that springs to mind.
  • + 1
 @mikekay Agreed, I bought a $175 carbon Chinese rim and have been shocked at how well it's holding up.

I did use mastik tubular glue and glued 5mm thick rubber bumper guards (cut from thorn resistant inner tube) to the inside and top of the sidewalls after the rubber cement tubular split tubeless tire install. Lightweight, no more tire damage, no pinch flats, no rim damage, no burps, and I've also noticed more tire compliance as described in this review. It takes a long time to set up and you have to use a wide rim, but it will probably at least triple the lifespan of your carbon rim and give you much better performance.
  • + 1
 Too heavy. I’ll pass. My 40i LB rims are only 460g each. Also, I get plenty of grip, traction and cushion from my 2.8 tires with low pressure and 180mm travel. I don’t need my rims to flex.
  • + 2
 Twenty6ers4life: *is really worried about 100g of wheel weight*

Also Twenty 6ers4life *Runs 2.8" tyres at low pressure with 180mm travel*

Twenty6ers4life's bike: *Is heavy*

Twenty6ers4life: :0
  • + 1
 @Patrick9-32: I have an Uzzi that’s under 30lbs with the 2.8’s. So no, my bike isn’t heavy. And rotational weight makes the biggest difference.

Patrick9-32 :0
  • + 1
 @Twenty6ers4life: The point is that 2.8" tyres weigh like 300g more than 2.35s of the same tyre. If this rim allows you to get the benefit of a more compliant wheel and tyre system that a 2.8 gives you with only a 100g penalty then it would be a huge bonus. As you say, rotational weight makes the biggest difference.
  • + 1
 @Patrick9-32: Maxxis DHRII 26x2.8, (the 26x2.8 is 27.5 in diameter) 120tpi is 940g. Same tire in 27.5x2.4 is 900g. So 40g difference, not 300g.
  • + 2
 I think the "ankle compliance" claim is bogus. Sounds like the rim would be noodly in many ways if they let it flex like that
  • + 8
 My best guess, too. Who needs sidewall support from their tire when the rim gives way?
  • + 1
 @scvkurt03: Would'n sidewall support be needed to not have pinch flat and drift angle? With this design, that seems to be working good, pinch flats are almost gone, from the rider's reports, and drift angle still is a thing for sidewall support, even with the rims giving away.
Hey, but thats my opinion. Same as nothing.
  • + 3
 it is. no provision for nipple seats wearing away from fatigue? they use conventional nipples and conventional prep? yep.
  • + 8
 @DGWW, if you hold the Zipp rim with your hands a few inches apart it's possible to twist it enough to feel the flex. I don't know of any carbon or alloy rims where that's possible. That obviously changes once the wheel's laced up, but the way these ride is dramatically different from a super stiff carbon wheel.
  • + 3
 @mm732: This! I can't see how this and fatigue on the nipples won't be a major issue.

I like the concept but I definitely think it would require proprietary nipples/seats.
  • + 4
 @jclnv, they do use spoke nipple washers, which should protect the rim from that movement. But you're right - it'll be interesting to see how all the parts of this wheel hold up in the long term.
  • + 3
 @mikekazimer: What is this "long term" you are talking about? This kind of wheels will only be bought by people who use their bikes for one season max before switching to the next hot and trendy thing.
  • + 1
 @mikekazimer: How would your experience have been if instead of the Rovals, you brought your favorite alloy rim?
  • + 2
 @acali, that's why I have these in for more extensive testing. A back-to-back with a set of aluminum rimmed wheels is on the to-do list.
  • + 1
 @mikekazimer: Can you just send them to Aston?
  • + 1
 Do you know what the washer is made of?? My i9/ lightbicycle failed after 4 years due to corrosion ofter the anodising rubbed off. @mikekazimer:
  • + 1
 I have to agree since the wheel is built as a 3x 32h like any other wheel.... BUT they did say that they use a washer under the nipples (no one else does this on a mountain wheel do they?) so I can see that they are maybe a bit more compliant than a conventional wheel.... Enough to call" ankle compliance"? not in my opinion but then I have the stiff ankles of an ex-BMXer and lifetime crasher so take that for what you will. Mechanically an interesting option going with single wall rim though.
  • + 1
 @CrispiRider: Google Newmen Evolution wheel's then you can see some washers.
  • + 1
 Hi mike. I propose that all bike test are done on a standard set of wheels for each category ie 1 for Dh .1 for enduro /all mountain .1 for trail. Dt hubs , non bladed spokes and Maybe stand rims.
What do you think ? @mikekazimer:
  • + 1
 @CrispiRider: Lots of DT Swiss wheels come with washers under the nipples. It used to be common practice on lots of single wall rims to run washers.
  • + 4
 Why don't riders who get tons of flats just use DH tires?
  • + 4
 I wonder the same thing every time I see a press release for another foam tire insert.
  • + 1
 Aluminum rims flex and double butted spokes work with this arrangement very well. Carbon fiber rims do not flex so these are all fixes to make the wheel behave favourably at a cost. A heavy Carbon fiber rim.
  • + 2
 @mikekazimer - was the publishing of the article about wheel stiffness over the weekend a total coincidence, or editorial priming? I’m genuinely curious.
  • + 3
 Are those MOTO stickers UCI approved?
  • + 2
 The uci will punish any riders with moto stickers while riding anywhere outside any uci sanctioned events.
  • + 3
 Very excited about these wheels!
  • + 2
 Lol, "I want my air fork to feel like coil" "I want my carbon wheels to feel like aluminum rims"
  • + 2
 Can't wait for the review.. but for this price and weigh, they better glue to the trail.
  • + 2
 It pivots on an offset spoke bed... so does it deal with pinch flats from one side better than the other...???
  • + 0
 Carbon won't take you home :-p ... but seriously who takes such expensive wheels in the wood to rip it up? If I could afford them i would put them in the showcase just for my viewing pleasure
  • + 3
 Anyone remember Zee rims?
  • + 3
 Was wondering if these would end up like a pair of Z rims that had been flexed one time too many
  • + 1
 everyone is an engineer these days...even the people that bring the shopping carts back to Target are called "Shopping Cart Engineers"
  • + 1
 I'd hardly call the cart fetchers engineers. At best they are shopping cart designers.
  • + 1
 Maybe I'm not sensitive enough. ASK my wife.... To feel the difference in a set of wheels. Except for rim width and shit spoke tension, I'm pretty oblivious.
  • + 2
 Has "moto" in the name - not suitable for ebikes.
Probably they meant the cellphones that you'll need to read the pressure.
  • + 1
 I really like this concept! The only thing I wonder about, is how do they keep the spokes from poking through the rim tape, when the rim deflects?
  • + 0
 The displacement distance is fractions of a mm.
  • + 1
 Not to mention that tape being abraded by the nipples as the rim flexes.
  • + 4
 Just read that there's double rim tape!
  • + 1
 @sngltrkmnd: Have you seen those slow mo rim testing videos? These are DESIGNED to deflect so I'm guessing the actual deflection is pretty substatial. www.youtube.com/watch?v=RiUSywlUk48
  • + 2
 @thuren: Trick video. Quite certain, however, that the deflection experienced under normal circumstances is not several cms though. I've been on a few sets of single wall carbon wheels in the last seven months and I am very sure that's not how they behave even under this 100kg rider. But downvote away if it makes you feel better.
  • + 3
 @sngltrkmnd: Well, I sure did not downvote you.
  • + 2
 @thuren: Cheers then!
  • + 1
 @thuren: I don't think that video indicates they are "designed to deflect." Rather, they are designed to survive an occasional massive blow without damage. Great for durability of the rim, but doesn't necessarily have any influence on ride characteristics.
  • + 1
 @Inertiaman: In regards to the linked video I agree! My intent of linking that video though, is to show that with even a moderate hit, the spokes are going to surely go into a good amount of compression, trying to poke a hole in the rim tape of these single-wall rims. If these single wall rims are MADE to be more compliant, they should compress/deflect/absorb the ground/whatever even more? Seems like the rim tape would need a rigid band under it to keep the nipples seated, or something.
  • + 1
 @thuren: Care to elaborate on the "few sets" of single wall carbon wheels? As far as I know there are two makers of single wall carbon rims.
  • + 1
 @CrispiRider: Sorry, but you've lost me on your question. I have no idea how many people make single wall carbon rims.
  • + 2
 No clue if single wall carbon rims actually perform well, but man they look good in my opinion.
  • + 3
 WHAT DO THE ~~ RIMS~~ WEIGH?

Hot Take Blogvertising.
  • + 2
 "The rim alone weighs between 535 - 565 grams depending on the size."

It's in like the third paragraph. Try reading the article.
  • + 1
 @Patrick9-32: Mandella effect. i swear it wasn't there yesterday Smile
  • + 1
 That description says the rim has incredible lateral stiffness... NOBL missed the memo that noodely wheels are in style now.
  • + 2
 You work for Nobl no? Wink
  • + 2
 Can you get the wheels WITHOUT the psi gizmos to save $400?
  • + 1
 Not that I know of, but the TyreWiz price is $200 for a pair, not each.
  • + 1
 What exactly is preventing the double-wall design from flexing in the same way if that's the intent?
  • + 5
 For simplicity's sake, take a yard stick, held at both ends, and try and twist it. It will flex some. Its wide and flat. Now take a PVC pipe of equal length and try and twist it. Its not going anywhere. The "box" design of traditional rims is closer to the circular cross section of a pipe than to a flat yard stick.
  • + 1
 $2k including two TyreWiz ($200 each) isn't a bad price to be honest... Not the cheapest out there, but also not Enve.
  • + 2
 Oh - Boy - some new shiny bit I will want to buy.
  • + 1
 The rims seem cool, but please no sensors! I'm already dealing with a faulty tire pressure sensor on my car. Ugh.
  • + 4
 Well, SRAM owns Zipp, so that's to be expected.
  • + 1
 They just copied what that other Euro brand did....can't remember the name of them.
  • + 2
 They look amazing. That really counts.
  • + 2
 Maybe a big step forward with rim evolution away from inserts
  • + 1
 that is a dollar a gram. two thousand dollars for a HEAVY wheel set. No thank you Ill stick with my shitty Mavic SX
  • + 2
 That cross section image scares the shit out of me.
  • + 2
 Challenge accepted... if you buy me a set
  • + 1
 So my bike got a 180mm travel SC fork and 195mm of rear wheel travel. Will this delete my lifetime warranty or what?
  • + 1
 Warranty denied: uhhh... sounds like a DH bike!
  • + 1
 This is like the opposite of the aero, deep dish Zipp mountain bike wheels from ~20 years ago.
  • + 2
 HED called and they want their Raptors back
  • + 2
 So zero Much moto Wow
  • + 1
 I really like the flat(ish) profile of these!
  • + 1
 No mud tunnel data. No mud shedding dimples. Not sure I'm sold
  • + 1
 How to insulate spoke holes?
  • + 1
 Mobile app to monitor tire pressure (?!) Are you out of your minds?
  • + 0
 Lost me at 'single wall'. And then again with bare rim riding on the moss. Sorry.
  • + 1
 First set of carbon wheels I've ever wanted, those colour match stripes!
  • + 1
 Can't wait to find the images of these blown up after pinkbike censorship
  • + 1
 Is there a counter to the weight of the Tyrewiz?
  • + 9
 Spokey dokeys.
  • + 1
 I’m wondering how these would feel with a set of Cushcore.
  • + 3
 My thoughts while reading this is: "oh they have performance gains similar to Cushcore without the weight". But that's not totally apt. They give similar traction gains be absorbing more of the impact and causing less tire deflection so in theory the performance gain from Cushcore would be diminished vs a traditional rim.
  • + 2
 Cool!
  • + 1
 Please PB, give them to Paul Aston for a real review Smile
  • + 0
 So why would I buy these when you can get a lighter set of dt 1501xm for less than half the price?
  • + 1
 @mikekazimer looking forward to see if these stay in true
  • + 1
 Those are Speed Lines, they make the bike go faster.
  • + 2
 Especially the red ones...
  • + 0
 I bet if I blow $2k on these my brain will convince me this lateral flex stuff isn’t utter BS.
  • + 1
 Yes! A steel rim! Would complement those steel enduro bikes nicely Smile
  • - 1
 Im pretty sure I saw one of these wheels explode into 3 pieces. Keep working at it boys.
  • + 0
 F this. Time to go back to steel rims.
  • - 2
 Hellz ya, another $2k wheelset! Waaaay to late the party, I can already pick up overpriced Enve's, or a solid carbon wheelset for half the price.
  • + 0
 soo 100g weight penalty for what, flex?
  • + 0
 Another SRAM B(S)enchmark product by the SRAM marketing team.
  • - 2
 I'm honestly surprised that they didn't try to partner with DT Swiss for the hub. Ratchet hubs have much more of a draw for me.
  • + 2
 Why would they do that when they make hubs in house for all of their other wheels.
  • - 1
 Too heavy and I certainly don't need a tire pressure monitor on my bicycle wheels....more JUNK!
  • + 1
 man they fkin trippin!
  • - 1
 LB>value than zipp.
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