At this point, there's no getting around the fact that e-bikes are here to stay, especially in Europe. Nearly every brand, including industry behemoths like Specialized and Trek, have electric-assist mountain bikes in their lineup, and the advertising campaigns are in full swing, touting the benefits of riding a battery-powered bicycle.
Here at Pinkbike, there's been no shortage of internal debates and meetings attempting to figure out just how to address this elephant in the room. Can they be ignored? I wish that were the case, but I'm afraid that now that the Pandora's box has been opened, it's going to be really, really hard to close. I've aired my opinions on e-bikes before, but given Matt Wragg's recent op-ed it seems now is the time to dive a little deeper into the topic. Let's start by looking at a few of the arguments that are commonly used to promote e-bikes.You Can Get More Done In the Same Amount of Time It's true; an e-bike allows you fast forward to the best part of any ride, speeding up the climbs and getting you to the descent faster than even the world's best riders could on their own power. And yes, that speed boost makes it possible to cover more ground in a shorter amount of time. But to what end? Are our lives so busy, our attention spans so short, that we can't take the time to appreciate the pleasure
and the pain that a long ride can bring? Modern mountain bikes have evolved into incredibly light and efficient machines – why weigh them down again with a motor and a massive battery?
It's Going to Help Grow the SportI'm not at all sold on the argument that e-bikes will grow the sport of mountain biking. Honestly, how many riders will purchase an e-bike, and then somewhere down the line decide, “You know what? I wish I didn't have a motor so these hills would feel harder.”
Matt Wragg mentioned it in his article, but if you're going to shell out thousands of dollars for a bike that makes going uphill easier, why would you purchase the equivalent of an off-road moped? Why not go all-in and purchase a dirt bike? Especially when you consider that in the United States, e-bikes are prohibited from many areas where 'regular' bikes are allowed, relegating them to the same spots populated by dirt bikes and ATVs. I don't know about you, but I'd feel pretty silly showing up to a trailhead with a tiny electric motor on my bike when I could have a 450cc engine between my legs and a throttle to twist. Rather than being a way to get riders into mountain biking, I see it e-bikes as being more likely to convince riders to pick up a dirt bike instead.
The best way to help mountain biking grow? Take the R&D money being dumped into electric motors and spend it on getting more kids on bikes. Invest in middle and high school race leagues. Focus on lowering the cost of entry into the sport, and on producing well-equipped, reliable mountain bikes that don't cost an arm and a leg. It may not have the immediate return on investment, but I'm positive it will be worth it in the long run.
They're Fun. How Can You Be Against Fun? Of course e-bikes are fun. Why wouldn't they be? I'm sure ripping across a pristine snow-covered meadow in a Wilderness area aboard a snowmobile is a blast too, but that doesn't mean I need to endorse it. It's the baggage that e-bikes bring that I'm opposed to, the fact that they can't be easily maintained out on the trail, the looming access issues, not to mention the fact that you need to charge your bicycle after every ride, or risk being stranded miles from a home with a 50-pound hunk of metal and plastic that's a massive chore to pedal.
Chasing the DollarPart of the reason that e-bikes leave a sour taste in my mouth is the way that they're being marketed, and how many companies are scrambling to add them to their lineup with little regard to the possible repercussions. Mountain bike sales haven't exactly skyrocketed in recent years, and the end of the wheel-size war has caused bike companies to look for other avenues to explore in search of the almighty dollar.
I recognize how difficult it is to survive in the bike industry, but it pains me to see how quickly companies are willing to sell out and start producing e-bikes. “If we don't do it someone else will,” is the refrain I've heard multiple times from smaller bike brands who are working on e-bike projects, hoping to avoid missing out on 'the next big thing.' Why not look to the running industry for inspiration? It's one of the simplest sports in existence, and there's no shortage of suffering when you lace up a pair of running shoes, but you don't see companies suddenly jumping ship to start producing rollerblades.
Last season, a large European brand named after a geometric shape provided the photographers covering the Enduro World Series with e-bikes in order to help them cover the distance between stages more quickly. On the surface, it seems like a generous offer, but you can't tell me they weren't banking on the fact that photos of those bikes would show up in the race reports. The scheme worked, and if you look at the coverage of the course recon days, you'll see plenty of e-bikes in action. It's a Trojan horse style of campaign, similar to what Specialized did with their elite athletes, sending them Turbo Levos to try, 'no strings attached.' In many cases the athletes or photographers weren't under any explicit obligation to do anything with the bikes, but don't you think that if the source of your income, someone that can choose not to renew your contract at the end of a season, sent you an e-bike, you'd figure out a way to include it in a cheeky Instagram post or two? I sure think so.
The headlong charge by the industry to produce e-bikes reminds me of the years that ski companies started producing snowblades, those super-short skis that were meant to keep skiers from defecting to the rapidly growing snowboard scene. In case you missed it, it didn't work, and snowblades ended up becoming the Razor scooters of the ski world.
Trail AccessThis is the big one, the most important aspect of the whole e-bike debate in North America, particularly the United States. Across the US there are thousands of miles of trails that are currently designated as being for “non-motorized vehicles only.” In many locations, getting the approval to ride mountain bikes in these areas took years of negotiations by dedicated cyclists, and even after getting the green light that access often remains tenuous.
What happens when an e-bike rider who's decided that the rules don't apply to them has a run-in with an elderly hiker while racing
up the trail? In our litigious society, it's easy to envision a land manager deciding to ban bikes of any kind rather than trying to spot which bike has a motor and which one doesn't. Once access is revoked it will take another endless round of mind-numbing meetings to get it restored again, if at all. There's also the fact that as e-bikes become more common, so too will the hop-up kits that allow riders to bypass the speed limit that's imposed on them by the manufacturer, increasing the risk that incidents will occur between different user groups - just imagine how a horse would react if a nearly silent two-wheeled vehicle came speeding up the trail without warning.
As far as trail wear and goes, I don't see any reason why e-bikes would cause any more damage than a regular bike, except for one thing - remember the point about being able to do more laps in the same amount of time? Well, that's double or triple the amount of use on that particular trail, which means that maintenance is going to be required sooner than it would have had only non-motorized bikes been used. It's not as strong of a sticking point as the potential for user conflicts and losing trail access altogether, but it's something to bear in mind nonetheless.
What's Next?With all that being said, what does the future of e-bikes look like? Well, I can say that it's getting more and more difficult to name a company that's not producing or planning on producing an e-bike – it doesn't look like they're going to disappear any time soon.
In an ideal world, I'd like to see e-biking positioned as an entirely different sport, rather than being lumped in with mountain biking, at least as far as media coverage goes. Yes, traditional and e-mountain biking are similar, but you don't see Skiing magazine covering the latest snowboard technology, do you? That may be the wishful thinking of a Luddite whose idea of a mountain bike is one that's fully human powered, but I'd like to keep the motorized and the non-motorized aspects of the sport separated as long as possible.
Overall, I don't want to see the sport that I've been fully immersed in for the last two decades diluted, watered down and ultimately cast aside by companies searching for another way to make money as quickly and easily as possible. Mountain bikes are human powered, and I'd like to see it stay that way. Here's hoping.
Disclaimer: The views expressed in this article are those of the author and do not necessarily represent the views of Pinkbike.com. For an alternate take on this contentious topic, you can read Matt Wragg's opinion here.
by those who cheat. So, when I think about Lance saying "yeah I cheated, but so did everyone else", it makes sense how
e-biking has taken off in Europe. Just like a snowball... This is certainly a complex issue and some people have a very good reason for e-biking, but at the end of the day only you can decide if you want to play in the same sandbox as the other kids, or go play somewhere else. I've already been beaten by e-bikes both on the road and on the trail, and I have also destroyed an e-biker on my morning commute...and it felt so so so good...
Now with that being said, for the rest of us, just ride a normal bike or a dirt bike. Pick a side. I genuinely think ebikes are dumb for people who do not need the pedal assist. I have no problem with riding a moto on trails, if you don't want to pedal, get a moto.
With all that being said, ride whatever the hell you want. We all ride to have fun, not to judge people for their opinions on ebikes and such
Who needs e-bikes? I don't think it really boils down to needs. They are just another toy and still a great way to go out and have fun.
There will have to be some trail etiquette tho. I could see E-Bikes spinning out on steep techy singletrack so they should avoid these sections or walk their bikes there. E-MTB's should really just stick to Fire Roads and easy up tracks... PLEASE DON"T SHRED UP TRAILS more than XC, Trail, All-Mountain and Enduro bikes already do !!!
Again, I'd rather get passed on a fireroad by a bunch of E-MTB's than a pickup truck spewing fumes and dust.
Note: This is a serious question. I'm not trying to be a jerk.
A good start is commuting or at least including biking in a non sportive fashion, the workout is always there, with or without lycra....
Dad was disabled and riding assisted bikes (on the road) way before the industry found a new way to milk MTB, I know both sides....
Not everybody is entitled to be able to perform the same outdoor activities.
Would it be fun to run up and race down Mont Blanc on skis with an avalanche bagpack and no care for the conditions or other skiers. Sure, but I don`t because I know I´m not talented/experienced enough and do something adequate for my capabilities like mountains half the size and steepness/exposition. Applies to most everything in live....
"Hell is other people " (some french wiseass)
I'm asthmatic and still ride my bike over 1000 miles a year
after I recover from my fourth knee surgery, that is what I'm going to primarily use mine for.
www.youtube.com/watch?v=JvpZXmYRP4o
2017 could be the most controversial year in mountain biking history !
#kudos Mike
Yes Yes
Bike Company Financial Exec: "Stop right there... No"
The trails are already too crowded around here. Why on earth would I or anyone else want MORE people out biking on them? Makes no sense.
All of the mtb and component mfgs need their corporations to grow. If a company is not growing, its likely going to be shrinking.
When did it become a thing that you absolutely must indoctrinate everyone on the planet to enjoy what you enjoy?
"growing the sport" has lead to all this crap, how about refining the sport, make it more sustainable, allow its popularity to fluctuate organically so we dont have a market flooded with shite and a media driven to this sort of clickbait bullshit to make more pennies from the marketers.
~ Off my soap box.
So only those who help build/maintain your trails can ride your trails?
If access was not an issue and ebikes were legally allowed on 100% of mtb trails, would ebikes still be an issue (aside from damaged egos)?
This is an access issue, plain and simple. It has been too much of a fight to get mtbs on trails, and ebikes are putting that access in jeopardy.
Or how about powered running shoes for joggers...Or electric motors for kayak..Oh better yet a gps guided golf ball that goes directly in the hole while your e-bot super swing machine swing the ball for you calculating the trajectory , you just had to program it while eating chips. I think by nature human nature is lazy and this won't help, the law of the least effort will prevail, unfortunately.
Yeah MTB, let's give the part timers and lightweight softies the keys to our future. Let the guy who turned up five minutes ago decide wher our sport if going.
You lot are f*cking bonkers.
And if you don't understand this, then you're in the wrong sport, with the wrong mates and the wrong attitude.
We all thank you for your selfless attitude.
When 'merica has more worry about the access to free and open spaces than us, we are truly fecked.
Don't cite UK as a market with no ebike worries. A bike for the lazy generation, with apps, and widgets etc.
Not Mtb in any guise really. Heavy crap bikes. Suck the life out of the best bit of riding, the descent. And no amount of lazy easy ups is worth ruining the best bit. Unless your an XC tit hiding among the AM crowd, pretending your down, but really are too posh to push.
Last Shuttle run there 3 dirt bikes caught and passed us. No problem or bitching and complaining, just 2 different types of bike on the same singletrack out having a good time.
I also have yet to hear of this but there are obviously plenty of trails that have been banned to MTBers due mostly to the actions of the riders that create conflict (riding way too fast near other trail users, skidding every switchback, going off trail, etc.).
It's only matter of time and I believe it will be a combination of the general perception of the electric motor assist and, unfortunately, jackass disrespectful riding style that will be the cause - mostly the latter.
Now all of a sudden we have the electric motor where you have ktm and other brand electric mx bikes that can keep up with a 250 mx bike and you have pedal-assist shopping bikes and everything in between, there's no guidelines or standards and therefore no way of differentiating between them.
The concern here is that while pedal assisted bikes are harmless, electric mx bikes aren't, but you're gonna have idiots who can't tell the difference, a few people ripping it up on high powered electric mx bikes will firstly result in a ban of electric motors as well as petrol, then the misguided idiots on pedal assist bikes, that look identical to mtb's, will not adhere to this thinking they're excluded from the ban, then, as councils won't be able to tell the difference between mtb's and pedal assist bikes.... The eco warriors and dog walkers will have their way and councils will just ban bicycles of all kind outright.
This is the scenario, someone dying or getting seriously hurt will be the catalyst, it will happen, it's just a matter of time. Thanks in advance to all the delusional idiots who use ebikes, it's literally like saying a rail gun isn't a weapon because it uses electricity instead of gunpowder, the argument for ebikes is that dumb!
I wonder why ebikers don't help out on YOUR trails?
Bikes with a throttle is a whole different type of bike regardless of power source.
But there are places that bikes pedaled by human power and powered by electric and fuel get along just find. Where they help each other and work the same trails together.
Maybe if everyone would start working together instead of one group claiming the singletrack as there's only trail access would have a lot more backers organized better,
Ebikers are trying to forge a niche for themselves within existing sports, like a cuckoo. If the demand is so great, get out with all the other ebikers and build your own specific trails.
What's up with the people now days!!! Freeride mtb is the best!!!! Suzuki Nine Knights 2016 Documentary video is one of my highlights that I play over and over!!!!
Sorry riderless new bikes, hopefully Walmart Supercenters can supply them!!!! Which brands will make them..... oh thanks, Huffy!!!
If it was not to pedal, I wouldn't see te point of riding a bike.
Like Nike says Fu@k it just do it.
Cheers
Access is generally limited by the old school thinking that bikes do more damage to the trails than hikers. That's a "fact" that has been repeatedly debunked. Since E-bikes aren't significantly heavier than a standard bike--20 lbs heavier isn't the weight of a MX bike--the foot print a tire from an E-Bike makes isn't going to be doing any additional damage to trails, but as was pointed out, the ability to ride trails more often will likely force a trail maintenance issue. But that issue becomes moot when E-bikes are relegated to ATB trails.
It seems to me that the bigger issue is the perception that riding an E-bike and enjoying it is seen as some form of bastardization of mountain biking. Me? If someone wants to ride an E-bike on trails, I give no F$$ks any more so than if someone wants to ride a single speed hard tail on the trails or a DH bike or an "enduro" bike. It's personal preference.
So no E-bikes can't change that. In fact I bet my hand that if you suddenly gave a guy like Mike Kazimer any influence over wildlife access, the first thing he would do after granting more access to MTBs would be absolut, unconditional E-bike ban.
The only thing we learn from history is that nobody ever learns from history
BINGO
Nothing else needs to be said.
Some of them E-bikers will find ways of increasing the power and not needing to pedal, with long battery life. And they will do it for the sole purpose of dressing up a miserable light motorbike as a mountain bike. Proper motorbikes are fkng scary to ride for many (like me) and are recognizeablw from a mile on a trail, especially ones with combustion engine. No folks will not play by the rules, just like none of us have.
Can you stop it though? Hell no. Are drones like Karma dangerous and isn't it damn irresponsible to give flying devices in such numbers to so many people, when by 80/20 principle, 20% of them are fkng stupid? Can they fall on your head or the windshield of your car when driving on a highway? Yes. Can any law system on the planet execute an eventual ban? Off course not.
I only have an issue with it from an access perspective. The folks who've worked for years to ensure land access for human powered bikes shouldn't have that work at risk due to a new user group. If e-bikes want to ride trails, let them go lobby and build their own. I'm guessing they'll run into many of the same issues as the dirt bike crowd. Land access to build trails is a long painful process in the US.
The Pacific North West has some of the best trail access in the country and I am adamantly against anything that could jeopardize that.
-KT
Takin above into consideration, If I am an a-hole for riding illegal or quasi-legal trails then, woooh, you are putting yourself in a hard spot, because that means that, just like me, a gigantic portion of super cool, gravity biased mountain bikers are a-holes as well. Having said that I have no issue with believing in your white knighthood and immense decency of the riding community in your area.
E-bikes are coming, you cannot do anything else about it but to voice your opinion against them, if you want to protect youraccess to the trail network. However it doesn't make any anti E-bike stance any more legitmate than any anti MTB stance of hiking/pseudo-environmental groups. You protect your ground which isn't really yours. But you have the right to it. Off course the E-bike ban will not be respected by many and cannot really be executed.
99% of our trails are unsanctioned but not illegal. That also applies to trails to climbing areas, bouldering spots, swimming holes, alpine hikes, dirt bike trails, and mountaineering routes etc.
As far as secret trails. Mtb-ers do not keep secrets. There is an old saying - everyone loves a secret, but everyone loves to share a secret even more. Mtb-ers are definitely the most sharing of secrets I know of. I know of a number of trails that are so-called secret trails - and are very, very popular (just look at the number 4 most popular trail for squamish on trailforks).
E-bikes - I dont know. I dont like them, give me a trials bike over one any day. But I also dont like bubblegum ice cream and it sells out at the local coffee shop. That shit is weird.
Perception trumps reality (whatever the hell that is) before "considered responses" have even tied their bootlaces.
As Waki says, there have always been, are and always will be a large percentage of users of any machine or facilities that will, as any junior high school teacher can tell you "ruin it for everybody".
Everybody that is with the exception of one particular group of people; the shareholders of the major industry players.
We, as riders, have no influence, and never will do. I await the day when Transition proudly produce their "Rider owned for life" E-bike, at which point I will throw a leg over my 9-speed 26 inch steel HT, and with a huge 'I told you so' smile on my face and a beer in the backpack, head off up to the trailhead for another day's serendipity.
www.youtube.com/watch?v=JvpZXmYRP4o
they can't wait to have a legitimate excuse to shut em down..
"they have motors" is all its gonna take.
Pick a side Stacey lol
he rides an e fourwheel bike, not an e chair.
the man is the perfect example of someone who has massive respect for trails and trail closure issues.
he rides where he knows he won't 'rock the boat'.
i have massive respect for him and his trail choices.
If the US would shut all trails and bike parks down that's when I'll be buying 40 acres and put big bike jumps on it similar either to a slopestyle course or either something like Sam Reynold's Dark Fest!!!!!
A-men.
i've never ran into a dude on an e-bike hustling me off a trail. i've ran into plenty of dickhead Spandex Avengers not even pretending to yield the right-a-way while i'm on some hard climb and they're barreling down the hill chasing their Strava riding in some group that's 12 deep. i'll take the old dude any day of the week.
and on that note... is that even a problem? even on a weekend day in the middle of summer at my local trail bike hole... i'll run into maybe 10 people? in a 2 hour stint? when i go ride DH around MD i might not even see another single person, biker or hiker, more than half the time, or its the random teens blazing green on a rock ledge next to the trail or some shit. was in the hills of Nelson and Revelstoke on my Canada trip and saw about zero people in the dead smack middle of a summer day. saw 2 whole people at the Kamloops Bike Ranch. where are people even going that this is being envisioned as being a legit problem... like these dudes are gonna invade your trails in droves or something?
if anything, i'd imagine you might see more of these people get out there to ride stuff like the C&O Canal in Washington DC which is already a flat gravel path full of a million people and strollers and dogs... which kinda leads me to "who cares."
" I don't want to see the sport that I've been fully immersed in for the last two decades diluted, watered down and ultimately cast aside by companies searching for another way to make money as quickly and easily as possible."
The bike industry comes out with new standards every year that change ride quality in the smallest of increments, and end up costing the consumer a lot of money.
www.pinkbike.com/photo/11870586
exactly!!! Or on pick up trucks... e-bikes are good, embrace, them. If you dont like them, like me, dont buy one!!!
But every rider won't be riding 2-3 times more, making lap after lap... The people interested e-bikes are people who are passionate about mtb but their lifestyle from there 20's is not compatible with their lifestyle in their 40-50s. riding 4-5 days per week, bumming around in that little mountain town, has turned into working 60-70 hour weeks schlepping it in the city and maybe riding twice a month.
I could either pay a guy to shuttle me up in his shitty chevy pickup and get a few quick laps in or I could pedal my ass up on an ebike, bum leg and all, and work my ass off for a couple fun laps. Either way my impact to the trail is exactly the same...
For these ones... Who am I to say anything?! I think it's awesome they actually tried mtbing in some form, or motorbiking though it's a weird faded line for them.
E-bikes have a place for some.
Sigh
The whole drama fizzled out. Dude's that were committed to skating, skated and we're relaxed about whomever showed up to ride. Those that complained stopped showing up.
Yup, cool story
For the amount of trail maintenance you do, it will make no difference. For the amount I do, it will make more work.
Glad you enjoy Ebiking.
Its not for all of us and so I will continue to "hate" them, and what they represent. People like you.
If the United States didn't exist, and that part of the debate removed would it be as big a deal?
You absolutely said up a downhill track read your comment.
Are your trails signed and designated as dh only? If not then you have no argument. Are they dh only because you can't ride them?
I was talking to him about his e-bike and he said it was unrealistic for them to become a significant issue mainly because of the price - they add $1000 to the same level of bike and then over time you are looking at expensive battery replacements on top of the standard bike servicing.
anything to reduce strain and stress from a sore joint which can mean i could ride for longer is good and it's good for trails and the industry as a whole if more people can get out to ride, as you could have more trail centres, and more power behind trying to get more rights of way opened up.
my only argument against E-bikes is, not to allow twist 'n' go E-bikes, as they are electric motorcycles/mopeds, and only to have pedal assist E-bikes to be classified as E-bikes
It only takes one person to get injured by an e-bike that moves faster and with more velocity that a MTB, and trails will be closed.
One possible solution: e-bikes make their own trail network because they can travel further afield and then everyone gets along.
"I'm sure ripping across a pristine snow-covered meadow in a wilderness area aboard a snowmobile is a blast too, but that doesn't mean I need to endorse it."
if there is 8' to 10' of snow on the ground why would anyone be against snowmobiling?!?!
Run where there is no snow? Ha, ya I'll look for dirt and rocks to run my sled on.....
I visit the areas I sled in the summer and there are no visible signs of damage other than garbage left behind.
The stress on wildlife is argue able.
It's great to be all warm and fuzzy about the potential for extending this amazing sport to as many people as possible ~ and don't get me wrong I love to share ~ but it's a bad idea, especially in traffic dense places *Black Rock on a cool sunny day here in Oregon* where you have a helluva a lot of riders of varying skill sets riding the same trails. The last thing I want to deal with is someone in over their head relying on a technology that will insert them into an equation their body cannot get them out of.
Lastly, I will stand by my assertion that an E-bike is a moped and not a bicycle and doesn't belong on any trail system other than perhaps one specifically for e-bikes.
This! And, I think as consumers, we have to let our favourite companies know that we aren't onboard with what they are pedalling (see what I did there?). Yeah, eBike sales are growing, but they are still a fraction of total sales, and our money talks pretty loudly. I also have no problem complaining (gently) about seeing eBikes in bike shops, much the same way I would complain if they started stocking motorbikes. It's all moral relativism, but consumers are allowed to draw lines.
Will my next bike come from a company that makes eBikes or from a shop that sells them? I have a lot of brand and bike shop loyalty, but I also ride a damn big moral high horse, so I'd have to say that I'll probably opt to buy from places/companies that share my annoying righteous attitude.
It's a toy that your ride around on to have some fun! Seems like a lot of people just need to go ride their bike and be thankful that they can still 'participate' without the need for assistance.
A lot of society's problems these days is because people can't be bothered to take the time that it takes to have earned the view. If the first few times you have to put up with a view from half way, so be it. Eventually, if you persist, you reach the top.
The view is actually diminished by making it easier to get there.
I have seen this same essential argument play out for years at Skateparks and let me tell you it helps absolutely no one and ruins the experience for everyone. Every skatepark is full of people who either skateboard, bmx, scooter, mountain bike or rollerblade. Everyone is there for the same reason, to have fun doing the sport that they prefer. However, its inevitable that one user group thinks they are better and more deserving of using the space which leads to fights and confrontations despite the facility being used more or less in the same fashion. This ruins the fun for EVERYONE. The same thing is destined to happen with Ebikes.
Entitled mountain bikers are going to whine and stamp their feet "But its not mountain biking...wah wah wah, I am better than you cause I use my legs and I am so good at exercise." If you don't think its mountain biking that is totally fine but it does not change the fact that everyone has a right to have fun and share the environment where multiple sports can be done. So go ahead critics and keep whining like children and see if that stops people from riding Ebikes. Surprise! It wont. What it will accomplish however is making a nice trail a hostile environment where everyone is fighting with one another about something completely trivial that wont change YOUR fundamental experience. Could the trails be busier with more people outside enjoying themselves? Absolutely, but that is something that you will have to learn to live with just as I have with busier skateparks and guess what? Its kinda nice seeing tons of people outside having fun and you learn to appreciate it.
Do I like it when I am at the skatepark on my BMX and there are 30 scooter kids ripping around? Not really. However, because I am an actual human being I can recognize that they have just as much of a right to be there as I do and I share the facility and end up having fun anyway. I won't let it ruin my day and neither should you.
The only part of the critical Ebike argument that holds any merit is the legal trail access issues for people mostly in the USA. Guess what? If you live in area where Ebikes are a threat to access you should probably join a trail advocacy group and actually try to figure this out. Or you can just keep being self righteous a*sholes on the pinkbike comment sections and see how far that gets you....idiots.
Learn to share, help the fight for trail access, or sit down and shut up
Sharing the trails with people who claim they don't have the time to get fit, or to do as much riding as they like, or are impacting the trails more (even through the increased repetition of climbing and descending which is the ONLY real benefit they offer) is an issue. Sharing a trail with people who by their own admission are too unfit, too lazy, too time poor or too disabled to maintain it is a negative long term outcome. Sharing a park with other sports isn't a problem.
Anyway I don't like how this op-ed leans so heavily on opinion. As an example, a greater counter-point to the argument "you can get more done in the same amount of time" is "yes, true, but that means the total calories you're burning on the uphill is less." Everyone loves the downhills and hates the ups, I know, but fitness is some part of the equation here and e-bikes cut into that. Sure the overweight office workers of the other article get on a bike and pedal easy-rated trails, but without losing much weight since they aren't burning many calories.
I get that the downhills are fun. I have a DH bike and take lifts all the time. I actually would have no problem with a full on electric DH bike that replaces the need for a shuttle or lift. If you want to ride downhills, get a full on DH bike and ride real downhill trails. But riding an electric trail bike? That does nothing for me. The challenges are part of the fun.
I live in an area where the biking and hiking trails are built and maintained by trials motorcycle riders. Why? because its efficient. And we share, and it works. ebikes don't scare us that much. In fact we want some because the logging road access is steep and challenging. It better than shuttling trucks.
This times 1,000. The barrier to entry to this sport gets higher every year.
It's really hard to sell bikes if you tell your customer the truth: that climbing is torture and that you need to be almost a masochist to love this sport. Spend a couple of months riding XC and trailbikes and then tell me if you want an E-bike or not.
Let everybody do what he wants and is correct based on common sense. If a guy comes blazing up a hill with a "hacked" e-bike and causes an accident, of course, his fault. If a normal mtber rides recklessly through the forest in the effort of getting KOMs and crashes with a hiker, its the mtbers fault.
Limited to 25 km/h I cannot see the problem all of you have with e-bikes.
Also this comparison to motorcycles is so wrong. Do you really want a pedalling guy probably doing around 20-25 km/h in the streets besides cars? Or in designated moto spots? what the hell..
If I get passed on a fireroad by an e-bike, where the hell does it affect me? I couldnt care less. I'll pass him on the down. Or not. Whatever. I enjoy mountainbiking. If someone wants to close a trail because "bikes became motorcycles now" the landowner is an ignorant. I know the situation in USA is very complicated and I get e-bikes do/might make the problem worse. Yeah e-bikes may be final cause, but in the end the problem was there before- the landowner didnt probably like MTBs before.
I have tried some e-bikes from Trek and also Scott. It is pretty cool, I get the hype. But I'd never buy one, even if the price was comparable to a similar normal mtb.
While I am in that group, I would nor would my wife ever buy an ebike, however, I have friends whose wives would be very interested. They are not aggressive riders, hate uphill climbs, but like being on the trails as a social activity.
Thank you, this is the answer and it's amazing that no one in the industry really takes it that seriously. Short term thinking will have short term results.
More shit you can't get fixed at your lbs.
How sweet is your year old I-phone?
Going from 100% to dead with no warning.
Pathetic battery life in the cold.
I'm gonna carve my next bike out of wood.
Maybe they call that skiing or skateboarding...
- www.bike-eu.com/sales-trends/nieuws/2016/5/e-bike-sales-shows-double-digit-growth-in-main-markets-10126236
- ecf.com/sites/ecf.com/files/CONEBI%20market%20report%20analysis%202016_1.pdf
- www.bike-eu.com/sales-trends/nieuws/2017/2/norway-e-bike-sales-doubles-compensating-for-drop-in-overall-market-10128997
- www.bike-eu.com/sales-trends/nieuws/2016/7/e-bike-import-shows-vast-growth-in-2015-10126775
Companies aren't just looking for new sources of revenue, they are responding to a market demand for these products.
This addresses a second point you make: the growth of the sport. The conventional cycling market growth is slowing, while the e-bike market is growing at an exponential rate. It can reasonably be assumed that the cycling landscape is shifting whether we like it or not.
This leads to a third point you make: trail access. A shifting cycling market will require a re-think in access policies, development, and management. Current infrastructure isn't equipped to deal with this new market or the growth of 2-wheeled access in general. It is unfair to saddle our current trail stewards with the burden of this growth but it would be unreasonable to adopt a "head-in-sand" approach to future development.
Conversely, the guy who retired early and opened a bike shop with his savings because he's a "passionate cyclist" has got fully on board as he sees an opportunity to part people from large chunks of cash, and the brands are making selling them profitable as it's suits there future business models.
Why have a sport that only fit people can participate in. Dumb it down for the unfit and everyone can buy a bike.
If you are looking to get the most laps in, pop that bike on the back of your pickup truck and run some shuttle laps with it. The emissions and wear on a gravel road from your V-6 or V-8 SUV or truck is hardly nothing at all compared to that of the spotted owl killing, newt squishing and fish electrifying terror of the modern E-bike.
Beware the E-bike! The Eeeeee bike! (truth be told, if they had simply added "co" to "e" and maybe offered several models of "Prius" eco-bikes, this would not only be a non-issue, but they'd be celebrated!).
That's not eco and it's why they didn't event try that lame excuse. But you did
Yes. Trail access is not guaranteed, and e-bikes threaten the interoperability of most trails that I've ridden (bikers + hikers).
Do they not get it? There is no mountain biking without trail access on public lands! And that shit is lazy. I have enough fat ass, no climbing shuttlers on my trails!
If there is ROI to be had, you can bet your ass that all of the big boys will hop on the e-bike train ASAP...
I knee jerk is to say let's ban them at all local trails, but what about the one-off guy who is physically incapable (DISABLED, not fat) of riding...why ban him from the fun?!
Tough subject
I do have to admit that due to the fact that we don't have long descents with the corresponding long climbs, it makes a lot less sense to ride an e-mtb out here than it would in the alps or so.
One more, completely unrelated point: every rider that uses shuttles or chairlifts to get to the top should really stfu about e-bikes.
For the more up or greater distance - the exercise part
I have NO more interest in attaining more up or distance than I have in performing more reps with my weights by having an electric lift assist.
2. For the down - the fun part
re “I had done two” and “10k heavier”
I’d rather have one optimum down ride than two with a bike that is 22lbs heavier, with a bunch of that weight high off the ground.
No thanks. No e-moped for me.
However, these hateful things allow people to ride who would’ve otherwise lost the ability. My father taught me to ride, but muscle-wasting following a spinal injury stopped us riding together a few years back, e-bikes change that. The same for an old riding buddy with a heart condition.
Yes, they suck and there are a lot of lazy bastards trashing trails with them, but, and this is a big but, for some these represent a second chance to do what we all love.
It's Going to Help Grow the Sport
I'm not at all sold on the argument that e-bikes will grow the sport of mountain biking. Honestly, how many riders will purchase an e-bike, and then somewhere down the line decide, “You know what? I wish I didn't have a motor so these hills would feel harder.”
Matt Wragg mentioned it in his article, but if you're going to shell out thousands of dollars for a bike that makes going uphill easier, why would you purchase the equivalent of an off-road moped? Why not go all-in and purchase a dirt bike? Especially when you consider that in the United States, e-bikes are prohibited from many areas where 'regular' bikes are allowed, relegating them to the same spots populated by dirt bikes and ATVs. I don't know about you, but I'd feel pretty silly showing up to a trailhead with a tiny electric motor on my bike when I could have a 450cc engine between my legs and a throttle to twist. Rather than being a way to get riders into mountain biking, I see it e-bikes as being more likely to convince riders to pick up a dirt bike instead.
The best way to help mountain biking grow? Take the R&D money being dumped into electric motors and spend it on getting more kids on bikes. Invest in middle and high school race leagues. Focus on lowering the cost of entry into the sport, and on producing well-equipped, reliable mountain bikes that don't cost an arm and a leg. It may not have the immediate return on investment, but I'm positive it will be worth it in the long run.
I smell hyprocrisy.
Note: I'm not interested in e-biking, nor by lift assisted riding, yet I'm in the camp of let people do what they f**king want as long as they don't damage or leave shit in the trails, have a low impact on the natural environment and don't behave like jerks.
Disabled: Probably shouldn't be riding a 160 bike anywhere.
Save time/more ground covered: Dude, slow down! Riding is like good food, you eat a little at a time, chew and digest. E-bikes are fast food for people with excuse priorities (work, kids, etc.). Want a big epic day? Make time like a normal person.
Makes companies money: Whatever. If they really want to push gizmos, I think gearboxes are a much better waste of time.
Uphill advantage: Everything that is wrong with society is in this reason. What's next, self-propelling kettle bells in crossfit class?
Considering that the imapact of e-bikes on trails has been proven to be the same why should they be banned?
Is it because your precious Strava times are at risk? Is it because others are having more fun? Is it because it's human nature to hate anything new or different? Is it because you can't afford one?
My hunch is that it's all of the above or a little of all.
"Are our lives so busy?"
A 40 h week is like holiday for me! And on weekends I take care of the kids, so my wife can work.
Maybe I should stay home at all not disturbing your ride?
"They're Fun..... snowmobile is a blast too"
This is your comparison? Why you don't say: drugs are fun too? Bet you studied journalism!
"Chasing the Dollar"
This bad companies want to make money, who are they to think this is they way business is been done?
" run-in with an elderly hiker while racing up the trail"
We have some many e-bikes out there on the trail, hikers die every day. So we banned the hikers from the trails.
Overall, this looks like a Donald Trump speech to me. Full of alternative facts!
The curious thing about ebikes and their "European invasion" is what they show about the difference between the riding mentality of the two continents.
In the US we place a high value on liberty. In Europe they value equality. Our value of liberty lends itself to divisions between the DHers, singlespeeders, bikepackers, flowtrailers, and all other self identifying user groups. This fragmentation beaks down our collective bargaining power when it comes to trail negation and undercuts our liberty to build and maintain new trails. It is reflected with the responses written in this ebike thread - "This is the way I do it and it is the only way it should be done".
Europe values equality over liberty and this leads to a better relationship between subsets of the biking community and is reflected with their larger adoption of the ebike user group. This, in turn, increases the participation in biking communities and is reflected in the standardization of regulations, better access to trails and more streamlined adoption of new trails.
Will ebikes kill the trails that we love? Doubtful. Will the American mentality of existing user groups towards this new segment of users place in peril the trails that we love and slow future development? Absolutely.
www.electricbikescootercar.co.uk/electric-bike
1. ebike allows everyone to practice enduro-dh, even unfit people who ride only on sunny sunday
2. trail keeper see a potential customer in ebike rider (they are more and more through years)
3. knowing their typical bad skills on bike, trail keeper is "forced" to make trails easyer and easyer-- no more natural drops no more roots and stones.
4. 60% of the trails around me are now perfectly shaped with noobproof parabolic turn, dh resort are now plently of ebike
5. Even pro-trails (not the Black Snake) will be progressively adapted to permit sunny-sunday-ebiker to ride on them.
6. I think to sell my Summum and buy an hard-tail because pure dh trail will be progressively disappear
That's the impact caused by e-bike, that's why I hate ebike
Long life to old school DH
No one believes them to be cool - yet. They maybe helpful, but not cool.
Wait until electric cars are affordable for normal humans, then there will be eBikes, that will be light and powerful - and cool.
No.
This. Every public school should have a fleet of strider style kick bikes. Getting kids on bikes is the absolute best way to grow the sport. Get them hooked early and you have a life long customer and bicycle enthusiast.
If your fit and able it opens up the the door to be able to access areas and riding possibilities once out of reach for most normal riders. If you get a chance to ride an ebike do, you can get a physical workout from them, you still have to pedal and the assistance is only up to 15.5Mph. You are always going to get people who abuse the system, but thats life.
If your ill, disabled, elderly and it allows you to access a sport for longer throughout your life that's only a good thing.
Whats this mean for trail centre's. Well in the uk and long term - wider investment into facilities, ebike companies are publishing growth figures in the 200%'s year on year and thats not because they sold 2 units last year, many ebike lines actually out sell some companies top end models, all big brands sold out of their ebike lines last year as demand was high. there were 450k ebikes sold in Germany in 2015/2016.
The demand is there, you might not fancy one plenty of people do though.
Whats this do for your local bike shop? well 90% of ebike purchases are made in store not online. Its driving new customers to your local bike shop when many "proper" riders have abandoned them to the online giants. If it keeps cash in the tills of my local shop i'm all for it.
At the end of the day, its not voodoo its not like being on a trail with a motorbike, its a new addition to a sport thats getting more people onto bikes and wider investment into the cycle industry. How can that be a bad thing? No ones forcing you to ride an eBike, just have an open mind. eBikes will be a common sight in the next two years, so you can spend your time crying over the dilution of the sport as the article cries or get on with riding your bike and enjoy others on two wheels with smiles on their faces in whatever form it may be.
I have a couple month ago (a few different models) and.. yeah everything they say is true:
- it is fun
- it is heavy
- it feels like a light motorbike
- i still prefer my non-ebike, i see ebike as a different sport (lightweight motorcross)
- the battery life kinda sux
- "pedaling" is like twisting a throttle, but with your feet, really.
In my opinion, it need to be absolutely clear that the e-mtb thing is simply a different sport to normal mtb. I hate this saying “ …you can ride more trails…” Than yes, lets put two balls to a football game or two pucks a hockey game there will be more point/goals and it would be even quite fun for a while, but it is f*cking different game.
Please don’t compare it, and no one will be a winner, for me the e snafus the mtb.
There are applications were pedal assist makes sense to me:
- Commuting (if a car is replaced)
- Delivery services and professional use
- Help disabled persons
But it is so unnecessary on mtbs, look at costs the benefits economic and environmental aspects.
Mtb to me is connected to nature and the experience in the woods. Why should I buy hazardous waste (battery) ECUs and plastic waste and ride it through the woods?
Sorry to say but a healthy guy buys and rides a e-mtb with full conviction is a wanker to me. He jerks off on the trails, a quickie, riding longer distance, faster, more often and so on… please don’t jerk of on the trails. Thanks.
From now, never buy a bike from a brand that propose an mopped-e-bike.
I smell hypocrisy.
E-bikes can be nice for disabled people or those that have some cardiac issues too. I'm not the least interested in e-biking nor lift assisted riding but I'll happily share the trails with them as long as they don't behave like jerks, have a low enough impact on the environment and the mountains don't get overcrowded. If it happens to be the case, just filter people based on merit and in my mind lift assisted riders should have to surrender way before any e-biker.
Note: I don't buy the argument that bike with a motor are motorbikes thus should be regarded the same way. An e-bike is quiet and don't ruin a trail as much as much as a motorbike solely based on the available power and the tire profile it can use.
Then I punched him in his face
I have all bases covered
www.electricbikescootercar.co.uk/electric-bike
1. Existence of E-bikes is ruining your mountain biking experience
2. You don't like E-bikes marketed as MTBs because you know that MTB is more than this
3. You want a clean distinction between real Mountain bikers and people riding two wheeled vehicles
4. You want to tell people what mountain biking is and what isn't
Then please go and sort yourself out before telling thousands of people how you feel (aka, please I hope someone agrees with me and shares my point of view forward) Get a nice beer, get a damn good shag, smoke weed, eat psilocybans, whatever makes you zoom out. It is a bicycle, a stupid counterproductive hobby making you waste tons of time that could be utulized for the benefit of humanity, if even for not doing sht and not generating more garbage. Suicide is more utilitarian than mountain biking for fks sake. So pleas, if you are already doing something stupid, in nature (that in fact doesn't give a tiniest fk about you, would kill you rather quickly, if you weren't protected by civilization) then share it with people who want to do something even more stupid. After all you are one level more stupid than a guy walking around wilderness with a dog (Why does anyone have a dog?!) so don't stuck your nose up.
Having, said that...
On the other side of the spectrum, if you plan to spend 6500$ on a motorized vehicle, buy a decent E-trials motorbike, instead of riding silly bicycles. If you want to run a motorbike with bicycle parts on it, then you may as well buy a fkng KTM E-SX which by the way was sold for 7500$ on the 2016 model sale out. Oooor, you are a fkng douche, that want a motorbike with bicycle parts so that you can ride it on MTB or hiking trails in a half-stealth mode, because you are a pussy who doesn't dare to ride a moto there or doesn't dare to try to legalize moto access.
Which brings me to a final twist:
Some people on high mral horse, don't like motorbikes in nature. Well, please see the commercial for Specialized 6-Fattie Turbo Levo where Matt Hunter and (Sam Otherdude) ride through a clearcut forest. Please explain that nature how bad is 2 wheeled motorized vehicle vs you allowing for a clearcut.
The point being: Think in broader perspectives, that's the only way forward, or Trump yourself into making real mountain biking great again. Funk you very much
1) "You can get more done/why is everyone in such a hurry?" - Why is this your problem? Why are you so concerned with others? Who cares how they utilize their time? Enjoy mountain biking the way you want, and mind your own business. I fail to see why this should be any concern for you.
2) "Grow the sport/talk about feeling silly in the eyes of others." - Again, why is this your problem? Why are you so worried about what others think of you? Why are you concerned with judging others? Dude shows up with an e-bike or a razor scooter or some other "thing" you deem as silly/stupid/a waste of time... who cares? Again, why don't you mind your own business?
3) "Against fun/talk about use & being stranded." - Again, why is it your problem if somebody gets stranded far from home with their heavy ass bike? I've had to walk home 10 miles before with a road bike and no repair kit for a flat tire, so f*cking what? Again, why do you care about somebody else's life or business so much? If they get stranded that's their problem, if it breaks and they can't do maintenance on the trail, that's their problem... I fail to see how either of those instances ruins YOUR experience or inconveniences you in any way what so ever. Why aren't you minding your own business... AGAIN?
4) "Chasing the dollar/companies bandwagoning." - If a company wastes its time on a bad endeavor and makes a misstep, is this your problem? I can see you making the argument for wanting your industry to be strong and viable. All these companies have plenty of models to choose from though. Sometimes new standards or new ideas or new designs don't pan out, and a company wastes money. Happens all the time in every industry on earth. Unless you own a share of a particular company, again... not so sure why you're so concerned with how they direct their revenue, or why that's any of your concern. I'll concede that marketing tactics that push non-sense for the sake of trying to get it to catch on is annoying and potentially wasteful, but hey... welcome to capitalism.
5) "Trail access" - This is about the ONLY point of your 5 points that has any real merit, because its group behavior that can have negative affects on all involved if not done correctly. You SHOULD be worrying about others here because their actions can affect your ability to do something you enjoy, so they should be utilized responsibly.
4 of these (maybe 3.5) are foreal... "non-issues". So that's basically 1 point out of 5 that seems ACTUALLY valid... and not just the opinion of somebody who's either too nosy, has too much time on their hands, or has a self-image problem. At this point, the only difference between you as the writer on this issue, and some helicopter soccer mom from suburbia that's overbearing in her child's PTA and your neighborhood home owner's association... is that she drives around her white Range Rover with Fendi bag drinking out of a Starbucks cup, while you're on a fancy bicycle drinking out of a Camelbak with mud on your shoes. Carry on.
It's like a Russian novel: when you want to fight the system, you may try as hard as you want and your life will still be shit.
Give those with disabilities a chance to enjoy the trails. If you do not have a disability and are caught riding that bike on a trail, fine that person (yes, employ mtn bike trail police - preferably from bike clubs that also do trail maintenance) that can fine and/or ban a rider from a trail for illegal use of e-bikes.... okay, too far maybe and one should really police themselves on what is the right thing to do. Just don't use strava to see who's e-bike has the fastest lap time.
Nailed it.