Pinkbike Poll: Do You Use Your Climb Switch?

Mar 15, 2024
by Seb Stott  
photo

This week saw the release of the new RockShox Flight Attendant XC suspension system, which can automatically switch the fork and shock between three compression damping modes depending on the terrain, rider power output and rider preference. The system costs a minimum of $2,198 for the fork and shock, and importantly for a product aimed at XC racers, carries a 220g weight penalty.

This got me thinking, how valuable is a lockout in the first place? Measuring the effect of stiffer suspension in a sprint is difficult because some of the energy that is wasted through the suspension bobbing up and down is separate to the energy that goes into turning the cranks around, so a power meter doesn't tell you how much energy a cyclist is expending while sprinting out the saddle. For this reason, it's not straightforward to say how many watts a lockout will save you in a sprint. Nevertheless, it's undoubtedly a worthwhile advantage for professional cross-country racers, especially considering races often come down to a tight sprint finish.

Fox Float X and DHX 2022

But for the rest of us, a climb switch is more about making a bike feel more upright and comfortable for a long draggy climb. If you want to get to the top of the next descent as quickly as possible while feeling as fresh as possible, a climb switch could help a little - although the margins are probably slim.

With modern seat angles and suspension designs, any advantage is usually modest, but in my view, you might as well take all the help you can get. The main downside of using a lockout is the risk that you'll forget to unlock it on the next descent and wonder why all your fillings are falling out. An even more depressing outcome for me is leaving the shock locked and not noticing.

How much do you use the old cheater switch?

How often do you use a shock lockout or climb switch?



What stops you from using a lockout more often?



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256 Comments
  • 175 16
 On a bike with decent anti-squat, and especially if the trail has any technical sections, the benefits of the switch are SO minimal or even negative, it isn't worth the effort (or the chance I'll forget to switch it back). I suppose if every climb was a winch up a gravel road, I might touch it, but those aren't the trails I hit.
  • 42 1
 I double track up to trails a lot and use it for all those rides. I definitely agree on technical climbs though that it's overkill or even a hinderance on techincal climbs, though and will opt for the mid setting on those, and even on downs if they are smooth and I want a firmer ride.
  • 49 8
 Just disagree. Most of my time I climb on roads or fireroads, the very few times I tried without the lock it makes a big difference. And I have a Spire which is supposely a good climber
  • 64 0
 @pasteque51: yeah, locked on road, open in terrain
  • 8 4
 @pasteque51: 170mm is pretty much "super enduro" class and closer to a DH bike than a trail bike, so im not surprised by this... my i practically never use my switch on my Norco Sight as it really doesnt do much unless im out of the saddle.
  • 14 3
 Other than actual rigid lockout I disagree. Climb switch keep things much less bouncy out back, not only saving watts but its just more pleasant and maintains pedaling position through terrain changes like little valleys while seated. These factors are independent from anti-squat which is the influence of pedaling on suspension. I agree a full lockout would be detrimental on climbs with any technicality at all.
  • 30 1
 @ohio @shredwhiteandblue @nskerb - sum of your responses frames the issue perfectly: if you live & ride somewhere like the Alps where vast majority of climbs are on long, smooth, dirt roads, lockout is worth having & using. If most of your rides are in undulating, technical terrain where climbs are short, and traction is at a premium both up & down, lockout is only useful if you are trying to finish a group-ride by sprinting for beer or glory. For those about to reply "I don't care about climbing speed or time:" even for non-endurance racers with efficient technique and a high-antisquat, short travel bike - energy being pumped into your suspension with every pedalstroke is real, and on rides measured in hours, not minutes, your body will care, and the energy you wasted on a 1hr climb will not be there for the descent. TLDR: for short climbs & rides, carry on not caring. For anything longer, get & use a switch.
  • 2 2
 @pasteque51: On a Spire with a coil. I try to avoid roads or fire roads, but I find the Spire climbs quite well with the shock open for for being the big bike it is. Plus the climb switch on the DHX2 has a pretty minimal effect so.
  • 6 0
 @pasteque51: Sounds like y'all actually agree.
  • 3 2
 Technical sections I agree, I leave it open.
But a lot of my riding is winching up fire roads, so the lock out is noticeable.

Also agree that if a bike has decent geo (nice steep seat angle) and is fairy efficient, you don’t need it. Often a lockout is only needed as a sticking plaster for poor frame design…
  • 6 0
 @rich-2000: Is that true though? I mean pedaling efficiency is one design element somewhat opposed by bump absorption downhill.....engineering for both is a compromise while focusing on one not the other limits a bike all around. I always thought the climb switch was all about optimizing descending ability while having the ability to maintain climbing ability. All the bikes I've had the climb well don't feel the best on the descents and vice versa...in fairness, it's a bit hard to compare since many variables.

I do know this though, a hardtail generally climbs better than a FS bike outside rocky tech and a FS feels better on the descents, a lockout gives you damn near the best of both worlds.
  • 2 0
 Perhaps the way that individual riders ride/ pedal, our weight and/ or pedalling position AND the wide variety of terrain we each ride has more baring on the behaviour of the bike than some arbitrary anti squat figures. Better to have it and not need it. If not for the climb, for the jump spot.
  • 2 0
 Where I am (pnw) it definitely makes more sense to climb with it open than not unless you are on a fire road. I can ride the downhills more easily with it closed than the uphills. Bumping off of roots just makes it more likely to spin a rear tire than get traction. Going down it's just rough with maybe a bit more boost on the jumps.
  • 2 0
 @dirtnapped: I also run a coil, the bike pedals well but as soon as I lock it it climbs better. Most of my climbs are long (15min at least)
I did the same with my Megatower or Capra.
At least I don’t see how anyone could be troubled by having a climb switch
  • 2 0
 Pretty much this. My SC 5010 doesn't feel like it's spending too much time bobbing around underneath me on climbs. I've had bikes in the past that really feel like they're sucking the power out of every pedal stroke, but so far so good with this one.
  • 2 0
 For me it depends on how it works. I use the climb switch all the time on my Super Deluxe Coil because it firms up the shock nicely and makes the bike sportier while still responding to impacts. The climb switch on my Super Deluxe Air is a near total “lock out”, and I don’t use it for anything other than pavement.
  • 1 0
 @maestroman21: tip toe thru the tulips
  • 2 2
 @pasteque51: I have a spire and I never use a lock out. it climbs great.
  • 2 0
 Yes! The negative! No traction.
  • 8 1
 Thank you for your take, the great state of Ohio!
  • 3 0
 I have always ridden Horst link bikes and used the lockout on longer fire road climbs because it made a noticeable difference. About a year ago i switched my enduro frame to a Revel Rail29 with CBF and 6 months later got a Tilt for my trail bike. They pedal so well i never use my lockout anymore. There is basically no noticeable difference.
  • 2 0
 I answered from the perspective of my trail bike with an air shock, where I never use the climb switch for any reason. My 175mm enduro bike with a coil shock I use the climb switch for every climb.
  • 1 0
 @deepstrut: Which year Sight and which brand/type shock? I found a climb switch was desperately needed with a coil shock on my 2019. Less so with my RS air.
  • 2 0
 I ride a bulky Ibis HD3 160/150, but thanks to the Dave Weagle suspension I rarely use anything but the open setting of my DVO Topaz. The other setting are actually detrimental to climbing in all but the smoothest trails.
  • 4 2
 Foxy frame is so much effective that I almost never use it. Plushy on descends and not bouncing while pedalling. I've tried lockout once, but the first bump tried to pour my spine in the pants. So I use my shock only with fully open and sometimes with pedal mode
  • 1 1
 We climb mostly single track so the climb switch doesn’t help much it just takes away from the ride feel and traction when I need it in the tech.
  • 3 0
 Meh, I thought the same before I started doing XC races. Yes, grip is better, etc when not using a climb switch, but that really only applies for your average climbing speed rider not concerned with effeciency. Once you're trying to climb far distances at a good pace, climb switches are super helpful. Even for tech sections, you just have to use more momentum at points.
  • 2 2
 @hi-dr-nick: Considering most but not all of the XC courses here in Colorado can be ridden on a gravel bike why aren’t you riding a hardtail for XC races? Just we are on the same page I’ve ridden the Whole Enchilada and many sections of the Colorado trail on an aluminum hardtail. If your going to lock out the suspension for most of the race or have it set so stiff it barely works what’s the point of dragging around the extra weight and complication?
  • 3 1
 @Bikethrasher: still beneficial for the descents, particularly courses with a single big climb then a huge descent.
  • 1 0
 @RadBartTaylor: I guess I’m not XC enough to understand.
  • 2 1
 @Bikethrasher: Sorry but that's just an ignorant comment. All of the races I participate in are wayyyyy better on a FS bike, enough so that you barely see any hardtails. Especially now that modern lockouts are so efficient. That's cute that you've ridden the WE on a hardtail but that doesn't actually mean anything (and I've bikepacked the entirety of the CT just for reference as well, look at the guys who have the records, all on FS bikes).
  • 65 0
 Where the "I live in an area with undulating terrain so it's not worth flipping it on and off 30 times a ride" button?
  • 38 7
 Where is the “I ride a dw-link so I don’t need it” button?
  • 4 1
 @dllawson819: My sentiments exactly!
  • 5 0
 Scott says you would love Twinloc!
  • 4 3
 @mtmc99: Laughs in Dave Weagle
  • 10 0
 @dllawson819: My coil-equipped Ripmo definitely benefits from the climb switch.
  • 2 0
 @shredwhiteandblue: to be clear I dont say they would love Twinloc, Scott does
  • 1 0
 @gullywasher: my coil equipped Offering pedals worse with the climb switch imo
  • 1 0
 Yeah i use it on most climbs here in Switzerland and Italy as wr tend to ride up fire roads. Whenever I'm riding in Whistler I don't really bother with the climb switch on all those techy single tracks.
  • 1 0
 Great point

Also in areas with undulating terrain I find bikes with more efficient suspension designs (like DW) work better for me. (As well as a bit less travel, which also reduces need for the lockout)
  • 1 0
 I need both buttons - undulating terrain and DW-link. I ride undulating terrain and got so tired of flipping the damn switch that I bought a DW-link bike. Problem solved.
  • 1 0
 @mtmc99: Twinloc is (generally) great if an absolute nightmare to maintain
  • 59 2
 Where is the “I tried it out once, forgot about it at the top, and rode my entire favorite/once in a lifetime trail locked out, and have never tried it again” response?
  • 8 1
 This is the honest answer, so probably a different website?
  • 3 0
 I forget to unlock it all the time, which translates into me not using it much.
  • 3 0
 I have definitely done that. Got home wondering why my back hurt so much. Now I just leave it open.
  • 2 0
 @noapathy:

Ok, this one got a real giggle out of me.

Yes, a giggle, I'm not ashamed to admit it.
  • 6 13
flag Dtower92 (Mar 15, 2024 at 16:18) (Below Threshold)
 Not trying to be an ass or anything, but how did you not notice it was locked out when you dropped in? I can tell in the first turn when it doesn't squat, it's bouncy AF, and I feel like I'm going to get kicked over the bars. Not discounting your experience as it seems like that's pretty common. I just don't understand it if you're dropping into legit trails v.s. crusing along on moderate terrain.
  • 3 0
 Yah… every time I use it I regret it later
  • 3 1
 Yep. I thought this is a really big climb I best put my climb switch on for this last weekend which basically guarantees you’re going to do that big descent with it on as well. Best thing to do is to remove the switch all together and throw it into the sea.
  • 3 0
 So, after this poll, I thought I'd revisit the climb switch I never use on today's ride. It made the "I wish I had a lower bottom gear" fire road marginally less unpleasant, but I left it locked 50% of the descents. Does anyone make a blanking plug for a Super Deluxe?...
  • 1 0
 @mountainsofsussex: no but there is this…

education.nationalgeographic.org/resource/great-pacific-garbage-patch
  • 1 0
 User error, so rather than remember to lock it and unlock it for tangible befits it’s easier to not do it at all?

I also forget to unlock mine most of the time, but that’s on me.
  • 30 1
 The majority of people that took the poll don't use lockouts/climb switches because they will forget to unlock it for descending. So the consensus is most mountain bikers are dumb mother f*ckers?

Disclaimer before people get triggered: I also fall into that category.
  • 2 0
 Yes.

It’s second nature to flip the climb switch for climbs and toggle back for descents….

I guess if you never use it, that’s the habit you’ve formed. I’ve always used mine and I’d be reaching for it even if I didn’t have one.
  • 2 0
 The worse part of this is, that everybody needs the stiffest wheels, everything kashima, HSC, best frame kinematiks,.... and then doesnt even reckognise that the shock is locked.
  • 1 0
 current bikes are no longer pogo sticks - in terms of efficiency, I feel absolutely no difference between lockout and fully open shock when climbing
  • 28 1
 lock it for fire road climbs, but most tech single track the shock/fork stays open or in "trail" mode
  • 4 0
 Bingo.

90% of the climbing I do is on singletrack. I want traction, so the shock stays open. If I want to reduce my traction, I ride my HT.
  • 18 0
 Maybe you could have an option for shock only. I’ve never locked my fork no matter what the bike, but I lock my shock on every climb that’s over ~5 mins
  • 6 2
 Correct answer. Forks don't even matter when all your weight is sitting on the rear axle.
  • 3 0
 @ultimatist: forks already have auto-lockout when pointed uphill due to stickshun on the stankshuns
  • 2 0
 @huntingbears: shucks, you gotta butter those babies better
  • 17 2
 I always run my XC bike full open. It pedals so incredibly well when open and when I lock it it's too uncomfortable and doesn't get enough traction.
  • 1 0
 Same for me.
  • 1 0
 Preach!!!
  • 11 0
 If I had one I would. My new bike (2020) works pretty great without one. My old (2016) bike had one and it helped a lot so I used it a ton.

Most of my riding is just death marches up logging roads to ride down single track so I actually really like using one, it’s not that often that I would forget to flip it back to open as I would sit there at the top of the trail gasping for air and chugging water laying on the ground for 10 minutes recovering lol
  • 15 6
 Traction tends to outweigh any benefit of using a lockout on a trail, don't see any benefit
  • 6 0
 Correct but there’s plenty of climbing on dirt roads and smooth trail where the climb switch definitely helps.
  • 7 0
 I did use it a lot on my coil mk1 jeffsy, but now on a Canfield Lithium and don’t feel like I need it. So I guess maybe depends on the bike.
  • 4 0
 I ride a Tilt and I’ve never felt the need to use mine. It pedals great with the shock open.
  • 6 0
 @Ebergercb: The CBF suspension is like a built in climb switch. It's insane how efficient this design is.
  • 2 0
 Have a Tilt and now a also a Lithium, both with EXT Storia. Stopped using it. The coil gives more support so it sags less and I want the rear end active for comfort and traction. Minimal bob with CBF too, amazing bikes!
  • 3 0
 @chriskneeland: I have a One.2, it's insane how well a Cane Creek Kitsuma locks out.
  • 1 0
 @Snowytrail: agreed. The CC Kitsuma is a revelation over the useless Fox X2 I had on my Ripmo. Its climb switch is like a proper lock out. I have a 30 minute road ride from my house to the trails and then the downhills are accessible by looping quite a steep road climb so the switch is invaluable.

It has it's uses but I wouldn't use it on any technical climbs. More watts are saved by the rear wheel tracking the ground than skipping and spinning off every root and rock when locked out.
  • 7 1
 I forget which way to flip the lever on my DHX2 and have to dismount to see which arrow means what, dang it. Firm in 2024 is way better than what Open was in 2005 so I'm good with whatever.
  • 1 0
 I put a piece of mastic tape in front of the “lockout” lever on my dhx2 to keep from moving so it always stays open. Had a couple times where it got bumped and firmed up. Never felt like I’ve needed a lockout as I don’t have any long fire road climbs at my local trails.
  • 6 1
 After a long day of shuttle assisted riding in Finale I looked down to see the lockout lever on my RS damper had simply given up waiting for a reason to live and had fallen off.
  • 4 0
 At the Eastern States Cup races they have a few adults ride with the 12 and under kids and after a transfer they always make sure the kids have there suspension unlocked, I want to ride with them just for that purpose. I have been know to forget...
  • 4 0
 Shock lockouts need to have a valve that opens the shock and lets it stay open when it hits a big bump.

Imagine it this way: You lock the shock on the start of the climb,and when you start the descent it opens itself on the first big hit or compression (adjustable threshold would be a plus).

This shouldn't be that hard to engineer but somehow not one single manufacturer has come with this solution.
  • 4 0
 Not the shock, but I know the push-button lockout on older Leftys did this.
  • 2 0
 MRP used to have a magnet actuated blow off. If you took a hit, the magnet would lift and you have normal suspension behavior through the stroke. It worked 10 times better than The Brain did. I loved it.
  • 3 0
 Odd thing I noticed last year, I don't use my lockout (fork only, hardtail user) as much as I used to. Maybe on a gravel or paved transfer trail, but with a little LSC and the HSC set properly, I'm good with the small amount of movement. Back in the day, Marz 500/700, Judy, Manitou SX, etc, couldn't wait for one. We've come a long way
  • 5 0
 I found that fork lockout had a psychological effect at best. I had a manitou sx as well - lack of lockout was the least of its problems.
  • 1 0
 @kevinturner12: That's kind of where I was going with that, but I always go long, so cut it short. Those forks back then were.. Well.. They moved. I bought a MRP coil kit for the SX, made it not as bad. Today, the sag is about the travel of those forks, but with mid support and no harsh bottom out.
  • 3 0
 Also probably depends on what kind of climb switch is there. A simple "close all compression circuits" kind of sucks for anything not a paved road, and is the worst to forget about, despite having a blow-off valve. "Close/firn only LSC" might feel ok on smooth-ish climbs, but really doesn't help traction when you get into it for a punchy or rowdy section. Something like Cane Creek's Climb Switch is ideal: it has a sweep and slows down compression AND rebound depending on the sweep. This keep the back tall without reducing traction much at all. You'll use this more often than the other kinds because it actually helps.
  • 5 2
 I wouldn't buy a bike without remote lockout, unless I had a way of adding it. I owned a bike without it for four or five years, and I never stopped missing remote lockout. My next bike had it and it was cathartic. I've had it on bikes from 100mm travel to 150mm travel.

I would love to see the correlation between how often someone uses the climb switch and how often they stand while climbing - or even how much they like climbing. I love climbing, technical or otherwise, and I use my lockout remote about half as often as I use my shifter, on every kind of terrain, from smooth fire roads to Sedona.

I don't think it's about power or speed - I think it's about pedal stability while standing and cranking on the bars, and it makes climbing more satisfying regardless of whether you save watts or seconds doing it. What a dropper post is to descents, a remote lockout is to climbs... for me, anyway.

If people's primary complaint about climb switches is "I forget to turn it off", that's just a symptom of them not using it much in the first place. That's not a problem with climb switches.
  • 4 1
 I've been doing this mtb thing for a long time and two things that bum me out now (besides people giving up and riding ebikes) is the idea of doing "laps" and not riding up hard trails. One of the main tenets with the guys I rode with was never the same trail twice in one ride. Also cleaning the techy uphill was as fun as shredding the downs.
  • 2 0
 My local trail networks (3 of them plus most of the others around as well that I don’t visit as frequently) have one climb to the top then 2, 3 or 8 different trails on the way down so I’ll do ‘laps’ but usually hit different trails each time. All of the climbs are a single 10 minute fire road slogs.
I do enjoy going somewhere new where I can do a large circular ride where you’re tested on climbs and descents along with not hit the same section of trail twice but it’s just not the case unless I travel more than an hour and a half to those trails.
  • 6 0
 CBF bikes don’t need no climb switch.
  • 2 0
 depends on the bike and trail I am riding but on my XC bike, I would love to have something like Flight Attendant. We do weekly XC hammerfest group rides as well as racing and this sort of system seems perfect. Too much hassle to keep switching while riding hard since I have an Epic EVO without a handlebar mounted lever to lockout.
  • 2 0
 Generally I use the climb switch when I ride from the house, as to get to my local loops I'm on pavement/bikepath/fireroad for a few miles before I get to the singletrack and I find it just makes the bike ('22 Stumpy EVO) a little more peppy on the smooth stuff. Once I hit the tight and lumpy (East Coast baby!) the climb switch goes off and I usually ignore it for the rest of the ride until I hit pavement again.
  • 1 0
 This, exactly. Few miles of pavement from the house to the dirt, its on. Soon as you hit single track it's off. Have a '22 stumpy evo alloy with a MRP coil. Its a tank so anything to conserve energy is a plus.
  • 3 1
 I have 3 position switch, I use more like for overall ride, like flow trail will be in the middle, park ride - open, etc.

I do not see benefits of climb switch for the uphill.
I have similar switch on the vehicle so depending on freeway/washboard I flip the switch.

I do gee with electronic use within suspension much more practical then in SHIFTING OR DROPPER
  • 2 0
 I've done a lot of back to back testing on using my lockout switch on my enduro & XC bike. First climb non locked out at set wattage then 2nd run locked out at same wattage. I've never had it where the 2nd run is faster but it always feels faster.
  • 9 0
 Next time test with equal heart rate rather than equal wattage. if you pump the bike using your legs on pump track without actually pedaling. The power meter read 0 watts because you didn't generate any torque through the drive train. Yet you clearly made some work pumping the bike that can make you get tired. Part of energy lost through suspension is that way too. Your body work harder for some movement which doesn't register as power through the drive train. So, at the same watts read at power meter, lockout may require lower heart rate.
  • 2 0
 @Hexsense: I've had my HR and no noticeable difference. Usually within the same range.
  • 1 0
 @Hexsense: would it actually measure 0? You would still be putting energy through the cranks/pedals
  • 1 0
 @n734535: Have you tried pumping with chain removed Smile

On a serious note. Unless you remove the chain. It won't be exact 0. There's still force transfer through it. But that low power number feels way more tiring than actually pedaling a bike normally for that wattage.
  • 3 0
 I think almost every WC pro on FS has some sort of a lockout system, they would discard them in a second if they weren't helpful.
  • 1 0
 @Hexsense: a pedal or crank based power meter would still pick up the force transmitted through your legs even with the chain removed, wouldn't it?

I don't own one nor have i looked very far into the matter but i would have thought pedal/crank based ones would work for this (although it might confuse the software to pick up force through both sides simultaneously, idk)

Someone please test this
  • 1 0
 @n734535: Power that power meter try to measure is the result of effective power. That is torque (force x crank arm length) multiply by RPM of the crank rotation.
As you press straight down on both cranks at the same time when cranks are parallel. There are force going downward. Those can create torque on each crank arm but they cancel each other out. Thus no spin and therefore no rotation speed (rpm).
Pedal based sensor certainly can feel this force. But it won't add that towards the power number. It'll just record that you have very bad torque effectiveness.
  • 2 0
 @n734535: Another explanation of why force that doesn't spin the crank doesn't register as power number.
What if you made a crank based power meter that read force into your power number.
If you stand still on the pedals, there would be force acting on the pedal all the time by your weight, right? Does that mean you put power through the crank all the time even when you stand still?
No. Right? Because that'd become a useless measurement instead of representing how hard you work.

Therefore, Power meter measure what it does which is effective power that propel the bike. By design.
  • 5 0
 @Snowytrail: false. XC racers stuck with hardtails for years even when the data showed that rear suspension was faster. Ditto dropper posts. Lockout makes a bike FEEL faster, but skipping/chattering across even a dirt road is slower than having full traction.

In motorsports rear suspension is used even on flat track dirt bikes and street bikes because even on a very smooth surface suspension gets you traction, and traction equals speed.
  • 1 0
 @Hexsense: would power pedals see the pumping the bike or just what is rotational? I mean there’s gotta be a load cell somewhere in there.
  • 2 0
 @wyorider: fair points. Karts don’t have suspension but F1 cars do.
  • 1 0
 @itslightoutandawaywego: Pedal power meter definitely sense force. But that doesn't calculate into power unless the crank rotate. For pedal based power meter, Power = force from pedal sensor x crank arm length (which you set from app/head unit) x rotation speed (cadence). Force was read but cadence is 0 so the whole term is 0.

There are even many more strain gauges on the pedal to cancel out "ineffective" force from the power calculation as well. Because you wouldn't want the force that push the pedal side way to register as power, for example.
  • 2 0
 Manitou Mara Pro on. GG Smash. Shock has “work” (pedal platform) and “party” (open) mode. I find work mode to be way too firm, wouldn’t even use it on a fire road. Just leave it in party mode all the time. Pedals fine open, and has great traction.
  • 2 0
 Seems to me a lot of people treat their bikes like ordering a diet coke with your super-sized double big mac meal. The diet coke helps but the drink wasn't the problem. Climb switch engaged on a 37 pound 170mm with asegais front and back. But one thing is for certain, you shouldn't look to me for any answers. I set up my suspension once and just leave it even though I never use all my travel and am definitely the slowest pedaler out there. I'm just not a high cadence guy or in any ways strong or fit.
  • 2 0
 Depends on the bike. I had a V2 Santa Cruz Hightower that kind of sat into its travel, so I used the climb switch all the time for a better position. I have a Forbidden Dreadnought and on that I almost never use the climb switch because it pedals really well and the position is good.

I find climbing with it open way better for technical climbs as there is a lot more traction.

I had a hardtail for a while recently and on pavement it was kind of "bouncy". Maybe I suck at pedaling, but I like the way a FS bike pedals in comparison, as long as the geo is good
  • 2 0
 My favorite climb switch is on the Push Elevensix because you can independently tune it. The new fox one on the X2 and DHX2 is good too being able to use it in a free range from open to closed. Mostly use that one in the middle on tech climbs and fully closed on fire roads.
  • 1 0
 IN theory you can do the same thing with Manitou's Mcleod/Mara, and I am guessing some other 'platform' shocks as well.
  • 2 0
 I ride a 170mm rear travel Mondraker Dune. So enough suspension that the climb switch should make a difference. On road and long draggy fireroad climbs I do use it but to be honest I can´t feel much of a difference. I think it´s more of a psychological thing than anything else. Believing you are climbing more efficiently makes those grinding, boring climbs just that little bit more bearable. Real benefits or not.
  • 1 0
 I will lock out my shock for a climb of any significance (coil shock, on a 160mm bike), unless it's exceptionally technical or very wet, in which case I'll opt for traction. Once I drop in, I keep it open until I am climbing back up. I don't mind if there is a short climb in the middle.
  • 2 1
 Pedal and lockout switches are far too aggressive generally I find. Some suspension movement smoothes the rider input and is beneficial. If you have well balanced anti squat you're likely close to the optimum already. Climb switches need to offer a modest increase in lsc and rebound ideally, nothing else. Any more and I would rather leave it open.
  • 1 0
 When I use my lockout switch (float x on a stumpjumper evo) it seems to make my bike bounce while pedaling on flat surfaces or mellow inclines. I mostly use it on mellow flow trails to firm up the rear suspension and make it easier to pump and jump man-made features.

The sweep adjust on my fork works great, I change that up a few times every ride. The full lock helps on smooth climbs, especially when I stand up to pedal.
  • 1 0
 I've got the same feeling on my Evo, I rarely use the lockout but when I do I always stop to check if the rear tire has lost air.
  • 1 0
 I have a Kona Process 134 with short chainstays running a fox X2. When I first got the X2 it had a 52.5 mm stroke and I put it on even though my Kona calls for a 55 mm stroke shock. I definitely needed the lockout then because I felt too low and too far back on climbs. Once I got a stroke spacer removed and remounted it I hardly ever use the lockout except for smooth gravel or pavement. In the past I tried a coil shock (Formula Mod) on the Kona and I found for most trails it felt easier to climb with the climb switch on but I couldn't clear technical sections. I think most modern geo bikes with steep seat tubes, and decent anti-squat don't need a climb switch very often. I don't ride XC so I can't comment on those bikes.
  • 1 0
 Curious how few people have powermeters vs the number of "waisting watts"comments in this thread.
I don't notice myself any faster with it locked than not. On my DHX2 I'll use the switch if I want the bike to behave firmer (both up and down). Someone has to explain to me how you stand up : the bike sags : somehow wais energy (I don't get it)
  • 2 1
 Yep-have a power meter on the XC bike. Yep-lockout is useless.
  • 1 0
 @wyorider: you'd need a crank PM and hub PM on the same bike to determine that there's no power loss.

Try this: lower shock pressure until both front and rear nearly bottom out when you're in a 5s max power test with no lockout. This will maximize the power draw, if it exists. Test from a standing start for 5s all-out, no shifting.

Then add pressure so sag is normal, lock out front and rear, and do the same test in the same exact spot. Really try to break something when sprinting for both tests.

Go look at your data and see what your top speed is for each configuration. Maybe do several tests with each config, eliminate fastest and slowest from each sample set, then average the results and compare averages.
  • 2 0
 @waterrockets: that’s a really, really different test from real world conditions.

I’ve ridden the same climbs shock open and closed at the same normalized power-and open is faster.

Every time the rear wheel slips for even a split second it costs in both power AND speed.

In “real world” conditions, there may be one sprint for position at the start of an XC race, but even there traction is king.

Even with a tidy pedal stroke and correct tire pressure, the rear tire will slip more without rear suspension (lockout or hardtail).
  • 2 1
 Now this is the efficiency test we need Flat and climb Fire road and trail Standard part of every review for bikes 150 and up Now stop worrying about music corner And pretend outside made that testing lab and get us some data. On what kind of difference climb switches make
  • 1 0
 These isn't an applicable answer for me on the second poll. Fiddly access is annoying but a) I typically don't use it on a trail where I'm struggling to hold the bars and b) I don't want companies to think I want more things like Scott lock outs. Hell. No. The reason I don't use it more is I as a rider want to not use it as much, even though I DO feel a difference (being 215 pounds). I absolutely like to use it when I'm basically on the road/gravel. And I used to use it on trail climbs even. But I'm trying to get better about leaving it open on trail climbs as the traction benefit outweighs some of the power down advantage. If your power pedal ends up being not under traction... You're even more f*cked. Also, for entry level bikes, I LOVE a 'trail/pedal' setting for JUMPING. Because I don't really like 30% sag with fast rebound while jumping. But with a 'middle' switch like the Fox DPS, I can run the bike normally at 30% sag and not even adjust rebound... Just flip it open for tech and firmer for jumping. Then locked for roads. That's a very valid set up. It arguably shouldn't even be about climbing. More compression options on entry level components. THATS the important part.
  • 1 0
 I live in the northeast, where long gravel road climbs don't exist [if they do, they are called dirt roads, and I am on my gravel bike] so the lock out is pointless. If I am on a long climb, it's typically full of granite where being locked out makes no sense. So yup my lockout gets zero use.
  • 1 0
 It came on my Izzo and after initially using it, then after replacing the twist lockout grip thing with a button for a while, I dropped it altogether. It was a thing to think about and I just didn’t get on with it.

I used to have a DT Swiss fork that allowed lockout but then had a blowout switch for when you forgot to open it up again. That was good, one big hit and the fork free.

Not sure it made a difference to my riding really. I didn’t miss it when I replaced the fork and I never lock my fork out now. I get into the rhythm of the bob.
  • 1 0
 Interesting question.
On the xc bike (tallboy).. hardly ever as it's not got lots of travel anyway
On the all mountain (nomad)... All the time, the rear isn't over sprung so the switch is good thing, it's only really a compression adjuster so often somewhere in the middle to suit the climb
On the eeb (Orbea)... Every climb, it's a 160mm bike too so benefits from the additional support on the climbs.
On the DH bike. Haha. Push up, fly down. DH bikes are incredible machines.
  • 1 0
 Pinkbike, I'd encourage you to put some more data towards getting answers. A power meter and a heart rate monitor can give, over time, a lot of information as to overall efficiencies on your bicycle. It's provided me with a lot of great data on tire pressure, suspension settings, weight distribution, bike fit and much more.
  • 1 0
 Before we drop in on big bikes we always say to engage downy mode. My pedally bike has it on the bars. Have been caught out recently on chairlift runs when we pedalled from lunch to a different lift and then rolled into dh track.....noticed halfway wondering how my setup could be so wrong.
  • 1 0
 Tried a lockout a few times. Didn’t care for it. I run my suspension in the trail setting. Fully open for tech climbs. It’s easier for me to climb in the open position when there are a lot of roots and rocks on the climbs. Keeps the bike planted.
  • 1 0
 I am really interested on this subject, as I am looking for a new rear shock. My no1 priority is 'Reliable and User Serviceable', my no2 is 'good to climb'. I don't count grams or watts.

The way I understand it, a 'climb switch' is a post-feature, meaning it's a feature that controls a primary function, in this case it sharply increases the shock's low-speed compression damping. Am I correct? if so, what would you thinks is the added value Vs the added complexity / maintenance?

Your thoughts and any suggestions are much appreciated!
cheers Smile
  • 1 0
 my scott genius pretty much turns into a hardtail, it would be silly to not use it, the lever is at my thumb like my dropper post. I have to get to the top of the hill, why not do it as efficiently as possible. also why ride a 35lb do it all bike when it could be 28. i will say the lever on my lyrik basically does nothing though
  • 1 0
 I've got a hardtail and a 170mm VPP (super?)enduro bike. Even on long road sections I don't bother locking out the big-rig.

A smooth pedal action and not bobbing your shoulders up and down is all I need and I see very little pedal bob in the linkage.

All the lockout switch does is make my the big bike uncomfortable on the climbs.
  • 1 0
 I have never found a bike/shock combo where I dont feel like the climb switch makes it bounce more if I don't pedal in a perfect circle, which I rarely do. I feel like my current capra mk3 with superdeluxe ultimate is a lot more efficient and especially more comfortable without the climb switch engaged.
I don't even run a super weird setup, maybe sag a tad on the high side with slightly less rebound damping and more compression, but even with a stock-ish setup it just does not feel good.
  • 1 0
 It's a pretty valuable tool in the suspension tuning toolbox. I find it pretty obtuse to label it a "cheater switch" to try to sound cool. That label made sense 15 years ago when they were just lockout switches, which were garbage that robbed you of traction and would explode if you left them on for the descent. But modern climb switches that let you crank LSC on the fly are very handy in certain situations.
  • 1 0
 I use my lockout on all paved or smooth dirt road climbs. Especially on my enduro bike. On singletrack climbs, even if they're smooth, I prefer the extra traction of open suspension.
  • 1 0
 I use my climb switch more often on my Tallboy than on my Nomad. Mostly because i ride more varying terrain on it (enduro trails to bike paths). The Nomad only gets locked out for bitumen climbs.
  • 1 0
 I used my lock out a whole lot more when I had a bar mounted lever, reaching down is too much of an effort to do it regularly enough to make it useful considering its really only a marginal gain.
  • 1 0
 Ill use it on most climbs. I like it being a bit firmer than normal. if the climb is super technical, ill leave the bike in "Descend" mode for extra grip, but i do notice it bobs more in this setting. Fox DHX2 Coil.
  • 2 0
 I always lockout my fork but never the rear shock. I like to climb as tall as possible as it seems to be the sweet spot for my lower back.
  • 1 1
 When you flip the switch, you definitely notice a better climbing position. More upright and forward. However, when you are in major pain, heart rate is maxing out while climbing, the last thing you are thinking about is to flip the switch back. Like many, left it locked out too many times on the downhills that has just ruined the downhill.
  • 1 0
 Climb switches add 30g of metal and the great responsibility of remembering to turn them off. Such a burden. I'm baffled why people are against them. My 140mm29er perks up on the climb when I use it.
  • 1 0
 The answer choices are phrased pretty poorly but my answers are 1) yes on pavement and on hardpack fireroad climbs. 2) On anything but fireroads and pavement, modern suspension platforms make lockouts unnecessary.
  • 2 0
 Essential as I live close to many trail systems, and prefer to be fully locked-out on the road portage to trails vs. loading up the car.
  • 2 0
 Opinion of an odd duck: I miss Marzocchi's 'lock-down' switch on some 2000's air forks. Throw the switch, compress, voila! Instant NORBA geometry!
  • 1 0
 I ride 14km just to get to my local trail head, so I always lock the shock for the road. I tend not to lock for fire roads as I’m afraid I’ll forget it locked going down (it has happened before).
  • 1 0
 If I’m going to be pointed uphill for 10 minutes or longer, I’ll switch in on. Anything less isn’t work the risk of forgetting, the the general effort.
  • 2 0
 There are some very shitty fire roads in my area that I use my shock lockout for but other than that I leave it all open.
  • 2 0
 I find that on any climb with tech or chunk, it's better to leave it open for traction and comfort.
  • 3 0
 only if I'm grinding road access trail head.
  • 1 0
 Tech climbing needs suspension to work for grip - I lock out for long fireroads sometimes and for honking on tarmac where I also lock my fork.
  • 2 3
 You don't need a climb switch or lockout with my prototypes. The climb switch is actually detrimental because it makes the suspension perform worse. :-) Pics in my profile.

I can go on and on about the bikes, but the axle path is as rearward or better than DW-Link bikes. With that much chain growth, the rear end is sensitive enough to "bend your brain", even with an air shock. Your legs and feet tell you that you're pedaling a hardtail, your eyes see trail chatter and/or small bumps, but you don't feel them through your feet. Your senses don't agree, so your brain feels weird for a bit. The feeling goes away once your brain acclimatizes. Colin Ryan felt his brain bend when he tried them in 2023. Traction is incredible because of the suspension's sensitivity. You loose that with the climb switch.
  • 4 2
 The anti lockout switch is such a weird thing. Do you also not change gears?
  • 1 0
 Lockouts are overrated, gears are not.
  • 2 3
 Even on the 100mm XC whip it isn’t worth it. Pros still insist on a lockout, but it isn’t faster. If FEELS faster bouncing around, but it sure isn’t.

That’s why motorcycles don’t have lockouts (and hardtails aren’t used even for flat events like oval dirt track races).
  • 3 0
 "Motorcycles" should not be confused with "your legs"
  • 1 0
 Next you'll tell us that weight doesn't matter either, but the pros "insist" on having lighter bikes.
  • 1 0
 This is my take too. I'm racing an Epic this year and have been playing with the lockout and it's just not worth the hassle and it certainly doesn't feel faster. If I'm hammering up some hard trail or asphalt while standing up my weight is over the front fork and has already compressed it and it's barely moving, not sure how a lockout is better.
  • 1 0
 @stevemokan: I have a light XC bike-power/weight is THE main fitness metric for climbing speed.

And in season I’m at single digit body fat. Your point??
  • 2 1
 @ultimatist: Power transfer to the ground is the same. Even a few brief wheel slip incidents require more power to regain speed. Open your shocks. Open your mind.
  • 1 0
 @wyorider: there's a lot more to the physics here. Yes, bouncing around is slow. But lockouts help when the tires can handle impact forces, and bobbing is literally absorbing your effort.

My mind is open, fast rebound. My shock is locked.
  • 2 3
 Rear suspension don't need one. Anti-squat already take care of it if you have a bike that pedal well. Front lockout only is detrimental on a climb if you don't also lock the rear because it make the fork even more taller than rear end of the bike on the uphill. I only lockout or firm up my front suspension on flat land sprint. Not a climb.
  • 1 0
 I often commute to the trails by bike, I use the lockout there. Also when climbing steep and smooth fireroads or even roads in order to reach a trail.
  • 1 0
 My climbs are often flatter switchback style so lots to gain from a lock out. My coil shock is perfect and when i flick it to firm its 'almost a hardtail'
  • 2 0
 Buy a Canfield and you will wonder why they exist. CBF will make you question all other bikes suspension design.
  • 2 0
 One.2 rider here...I gotta have that switch.
  • 1 0
 @Snowytrail: With 190mm of travel that might be the exception. On the Tilt a climb switch is pointless.
  • 1 0
 @chriskneeland: I am setup @ 203mm. I will have to test a Tilt some day.
  • 2 0
 Tradeoff mathematics: 5.72391% gain in efficiency with the lockout vs 25% of the time I forget to lock it out every time.
  • 1 0
 …err I mean forget to unlock the lockout
  • 3 0
 I'd use it more if I had a remote on the bars to control it.
  • 1 0
 Yeah, I set up an old 3 speed front shifter for that purpose
  • 1 0
 How bad is it to forget to switch it off at the top? Does everyone here ride trails so gnar there is no way they can be ridden on a hardtail?
  • 1 0
 Just recently added the Twistloc to my Epic Evo. I’ve used it on every ride. I don’t go full lockout unless I’m on a road, but the pedal position is great!
  • 1 0
 I never touched the switch on my Ripmo however on my Spur I ended up putting a remote lockout to reduce the spongy bounce that you get when you go up.
  • 1 0
 I use it on my enduro bike almost every climb. Coil f&r with light spring gets bouncy. Never on the trail bike. XC I’ll flip it for fast fire roads.
  • 2 2
 So a suspension lockout makes me a "cheater" but e-bikes are ok? wat?

I use it on my stumpjumper evo and it helps suspension bob a lot. No shame, and I don't think that makes anyone a cheater.
  • 1 0
 I have one and would use it more but the reason i dont is because on bumpy roads and climb trails, it make my butt so much more sore
  • 1 0
 Second survey should have had an option for "don't need it". I only use mine if it's a long fire road or paved climb, it does make a difference.
  • 3 0
 I use my climb switch all the time. Mostly to spite Mike Levy.
  • 1 0
 As a hardtail rider, I only lockout my fork when riding gravel or asphalt on my way to the trailhead; I don’t lockout on the trails at all.
  • 1 0
 I don’t care so much about efficiency, just that I like the feel of the bike when it stays higher in it’s travel when I’m climbing
  • 1 0
 My bike (new Capra) climbs well without the switch. The lockout switch makes things too harsh, but I would use a shock with an in-between 'trail' setting for sure.
  • 1 0
 I have a preference for a bit of compression damping, so I ride my shock in the middle / “pedal but not quite lock” position all the time.
  • 1 0
 My transition patrol bobs so little when climbing that I don’t need to use the mid or locked out positions. Plus I definitely would forget to open it up again!
  • 1 0
 As a SS/XC/CX guy who mainly rides hardtails and like to go up hills almost as much as downs, these comments are insane to me. Lockout (lever) or die.
  • 1 0
 everything here is a big fireroad climb so i just lock it out cause im just spinning to the top anyway.
  • 2 0
 Riding on a smooth road is about the only time I use it, if I remember.
  • 2 0
 I only flip it on when at the pump track
  • 1 0
 Have one, don’t use it. If I lived somewhere else with sustained road climbsi probably would.
  • 1 0
 Maybe if there is a paved section that I need to ride to get in the woods....and only the rear shock, never the front.
  • 1 0
 I lockout the rear on flat trails and flow/jump trails. Turns my TR Patrol into a Scout, lol.
  • 1 0
 If you forget to unlock it and don’t notice then you probably don’t even need that much travel
  • 1 0
 If a climbs long enough for me to want to use it (1+hour) I forget to unlock it probably 75% of the time.
  • 1 0
 On your second question, one of the options should have been "Battery died".
  • 1 0
 I don't like how my bike pedals with the rear shock locked out....almost feels more difficult to climb with it locked out!
  • 1 0
 I have lower back issues, so I stand up a lot on climbs. Climb switch helps when standing and pedaling.
  • 1 0
 Scott twin lock works great......when it's working...as in when it was new....
  • 3 0
 Only on my e-bike!
  • 1 0
 Lol.
  • 1 0
 Hey @SramMedia , the SD Coil Ultimate would benefit from a mid setting climb switch, thanks.
  • 1 0
 My ibis does the work?

But really, only use it when the bike is on the trainer. Neither option was available above...
  • 1 0
 It's very bike-specific. My old frame I had no need for a lockout. My new one needs it.
  • 1 0
 Show me your huck to flat with forgotten climb switch applied…and I’ll show you how it’s done.
  • 1 0
 Lockouts(I.e.futzing around too much), the equivalent in the skiing world would be Moguls(I.e people turning too much)
  • 1 0
 different answer for fork and shock..although most forks don't have lockouts anymore.
  • 1 0
 I’d love to have a wireless shock lockout. I don’t care about the fork.
  • 1 0
 Slightly topic deviation here, but lock-outs on eBikes - just stop it, I mean wtf
  • 1 0
 I don’t always use my climb switch, but when I do, I forget to open back up for the descent.
  • 2 0
 Brah - "I only ride park" is the correct answer.
  • 1 0
 Answer for why I don’t use it.

I don’t like the way the bike(s) feels locked out.
  • 1 0
 I use my climb switch mainly for hitting jump lines that are tight to help carry speed better and prevent bottom out.
  • 1 0
 I use the shapeshifter on my Canyon Strive all the time, it works far better than a shock damper based climb switch.
  • 1 0
 I only use lockout on pavement. Suspension makes technical trails smoother and easier to keep traction
  • 1 1
 I have poor mans flight attendant / live valve. On my epic evo, my suspension stays locked out all the time.
  • 1 0
 On the road to and from the local.
  • 2 0
 There’s a switch?
  • 1 1
 I actually use my fork lockout quite often, riding up very tech slick rock is easier with the fork locked for myself.
  • 1 0
 I do, it's called hike a bike b/c I can't climb worth sh.....
  • 1 1
 Air shock: never

Coil shock: every time the trail even thinks about going up hill.
  • 2 0
 I have the opposite - I find my coil shocks have better support so don’t bother to lock them out. Even if it is still moving, I don’t feel like it bobs the way an air shock does.
  • 1 1
 Of course I use it (unless I need better traction). Work smarter, not harder.
  • 2 0
 My climb what now
  • 1 0
 I don't think the land rover has one
  • 1 0
 All the time, many of my rides start with long fire road climbs.
  • 3 2
 I use my climb switch on my emtb. Is that wrong?
  • 2 0
 I think it's really up to you the rider and what feels right to you. For example, if you are passing people on regular mountain bikes and they look at you with aw and wonder... You can point to your shock and simply say "climb switch".
  • 1 0
 @owenkalu: we look up with "aww"
  • 1 0
 @Dogl0rd: Aw, I see what I did there; oops I meant "awe"
  • 1 0
 @owenkalu: I usually kick at the people on regular mountain bikes as I am passing. So, it may be hard for me to also point down at my rear shock at the same time. I may just shout at them "Use your climb switch bro!". I'll see what works this weekend.
  • 3 2
 I'm always on DW link bikes so I don't need a climb switch.
  • 1 0
 Love me some Dave weagle.
  • 1 0
 Is that the one that puts the pedal assist on my ebike up to 10?
  • 1 0
 Where's the 'I couldn't care less about climbing performance' option?
  • 1 0
 Softer is more efficient a lot of the time
  • 1 0
 one of the answers should be: “no I don’t own a Scott bike”
  • 1 0
 I’m on a yeti, the climb switch is useless
  • 1 0
 I'm more likely too use it to soften my suss for when needed
  • 1 1
 Does a climb switch make it easier for the analogue riders to push their bikes uphill?
  • 2 5
 I'm a 30-something 58kg male with a 5 second power of around 1100W. I can do that 5 second power on my turbo, hardtail XC bike and SC Megatower. Lockouts make zero difference. And so the conclusion I draw is that lockouts are only a benefit to the overweight.
  • 1 1
 Yeah, I see all those over weight pros racing with their remote lock out xc bikes. It’s like, get some exercise fatty!
  • 1 0
 @PtDiddy: Pro racers use what they are paid to use. They are paid to use products with lockouts. They get very little say in that. If they only used the absolute fastest products, they would all be on identical setups, which for most tracks would be the lightest possible bike, and that wouldn't include a lockout.
  • 1 0
 Fire roads and LONG smooth single track climbs only.
  • 1 0
 Nothing compares to the work mode on the mara pro shock
  • 1 0
 Pedal properly and it doesn't make a difference.
  • 1 0
 If my fitness wasn't garbage i wouldn't bother with the switch
  • 1 0
 My what switch??
  • 2 0
 For some it is a button, for others it is a lever. Whichever it is, people try to touch it without anyone noticing. You're sure you wanted this much information?
  • 2 1
 Ya I have Live Valve lol
  • 4 0
 Pffft…. Look at Mr. Humble Brag Fancy Valve over here!
  • 2 2
 hot take, but on a well designed bike, you shouldn't need a climb switch
  • 1 0
 Climb what?
  • 2 1
 Just get an ebike.
  • 1 0
 Does standing up count?







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