Pinkbike Poll: What If eMTBs Weighed & Cost The Same As Regular Bikes?

Oct 8, 2021
by Seb Stott  

Batteries are getting lighter and cheaper. E-bikes are getting lighter too - the Orbea Rise pictured above weighs as little as 16.5Kg (36.4lbs) and Specialized's Levo SL is similarly svelte. That's no heavier than some of the pedal-bikes we ride.

Sure, these stripped-down e-bikes have tuned-down motors and smaller batteries than most e-bikes, but they will still smoke any regular bike uphill and get more laps done in any given timespan. Call that lazy if you like, but anyone who's taken a shuttle or a chairlift can see the appeal.

While riding a 25Kg (55lbs) eMTB has its upsides (they smooth out fast, rough chatter like nothing else), the slow speed handling can be lethargic, they can be hard to slow down, and it's a mission to get one over a fence or into a car. In that context, these lighter e-bikes are far more intuitive to ride if you're used to regular bikes, and they're more responsive and engaging too. But while they weigh no more than some enduro rigs, they're still a few kilos heavier than similarly high-end trail bikes, so they're never going to feel quite the same to ride.

Speaking of high-end bikes, e-bikes are still considerably more expensive too. The top-spec Orbea Rise I mentioned costs $10,500, while the equivalent Orbea Occam LTD non-assisted bike costs a mere $7,999 and weighs almost four kilograms less.

Specialized Kenevo SL
2020 Specialized Enduro

Similarly, the S-Works Specialized Kenevo SL costs $15,000 and weighs 18.5 kg (40.9 lb), while the S-Works Enduro it's based on costs a trifling $9,750 and weighs 14.7 kg (32.5 lb).

So, e-bikes still come with a hefty penalty in terms of both money and weight, yet e-bike sales are booming. That got me thinking. Hypothetically, if an e-bike version of your ideal trail/enduro bike weighed and cost the same as the pedal-powered version, which would you go for?

Picture two identical bikes, same weight and price, but one has a motor. Which do you pick?




332 Comments

  • 307 12
 If they weighed the same (yeah right, nice hypothetical!), I would of course pick the e-bike, but immediately remove the battery and motor and end up with a much lighter bike than the non-e-bike! Also, sell the battery and motor on the bro-market. Win-win-win.
  • 57 4
 Man solves MTB RnD limitations with one simple step! Physicists hate him!! Seriously, what does this poll even mean when its impossible to get eMotor weight to 0 and anybody who gets close damn well aint selling it for the same cost as non-motor bikes. The one they're talkin about in this article is 15k USD!!! My bike costs 2k and rides just fine. PB needs to show me the weight of the cheapest e-bike and the price of the lightest e-bike... And THAT's why it's never an option for me. Any progress in eMTBs will simply be matched by progress with non-E MTBs as well.
  • 21 1
 @lepigpen: market research for brands. Do we continue to make “traditional” bikes in equal volume? Or do we focus primarily on e bikes.
  • 7 1
 @pcledrew: (looks at poll results) Well, to no one's surprise, prepare yourselves for the great e-bikening of 2022. I mean that graph is gonna keep trending in that direction. It used to be that older guys were buyin em, and it made a lotta sense. Now I see kids whipping em around on boost mode. The Eebs are here, and they aint goin anywhere
  • 3 0
 @lepigpen: I agree they’re here to stay. That said, I’m not sure what results you’re seeing, as the ones above indicate roughly 49% (at the time of this post) of respondents would prefer a regular bike.
  • 1 0
 @pcledrew: Yeah if you add em. The options are structured... Very weirdly. To make it seem less like marketing data lol. But I was just going by the clear winner, if you disregard the options in 2nd, 3rd, and 4th. I think the hypothetical answer to a hypothetical question is definitely "sure, ill take a motor if its the same weight and price". But it's funny because it is, physically speaking, nonsense. Impossible. Only by making a normal bike intentionally heavy could it be heavier than an equivalent e-bike.

Now price, however, would be nice to see come down over time. But it's just a market at the end of the day. E-bikes will get better and cheaper over time, but the high end ones will still be nearly double the price of high end non-motor bikes.

I will say I'm glad brands are doing e-bikes that don't look like wank and are great for just a quick 2-4 hour spin. The next problem I'd love them to solve is reducing whirring noises. I know some are worse than others. But I can't stand that noise. Particularly if its higher pitch, a lower pitch would be preferred if they can't make it silent.
  • 1 1
 @lepigpen: A couple years after the e-bikening, I bet we start seeing purpose built climb trails that are optimized for the battery-powered cousins of our bikes. I’m still fairly conflicted about ebikes but i would look forward to such trails - why not make the first half of a typical ride as fun as the second half??
  • 3 0
 @sngltrkmnd: Jokes on you I'm in Los Angeles. We basically aren't allowed anywhere and e-bikes have been banned everywhere more or less. YAY big, overpopulated cities...

That said, SkyPark is a great bike park that does not have a lift. Not only that, but it absolutely has a climb that is either built for e-bikes or people who like suffering (considering there is a less steep, longer climb that gets to the same top lol)

As somebody who grew up on BMX and trials, I wouldn't mind trying an Eeb one day for tech climbing. I love tech climbing already, but it's indeed very rare to see a sustained tech climb benched at a manageable grade with interesting features.
  • 23 12
 Winner winner! My issue is that people keep calling ebikes “bikes”. When will the industry call them what they are, motorbikes!!! I don’t give a damn what anyone rides, but to call a motorbike in the same class as “analog” bicycles is a charade of the saddest and most pitiful thing I have ever seen. At least you my friend have made some money by buying said motorbike and stripping it back into a bicycle. But I wouldn’t give a penny to the industry if they gave me a lifetime supply of ebikes. I’m a cyclist… apparently a dying breed according to this “poll”. Cycling is doomed.
  • 6 1
 Now we know why "acoustic" bikes keep getting heavier every year....
  • 5 4
 @moosejuiced I take this back! We’re not doomed! The last two anti-motorbike options split the vote! More people know a motorbike when the see one.
  • 2 0
 Nobody likes a smart arse but that is genius.
  • 1 0
 @watchtower: I'll take that as a compliment Smile
  • 1 0
 : Maybe bike parks can supply batteries, that you drop of batteries at top of the climbs, a self shuttling service, but that would mean standardizing motors?
  • 4 0
 @aljoburr: I also think e-bikes can be a way of giving more freedom ro riders and decrease the need for ski-lifts and shuttle service. People are hating on e-bikes but are happy to take a 45 min gas guzzling shuttle up to the top.

But right now it doesn't make any sense for most people.
  • 3 0
 @cykelmastaren: : Must have been too busy patenting zero weight motors?
  • 3 0
 @lepigpen: most of My sideline work is to do with light weighting things motors was one thing we looked at alternative batteries and theres tech out there that would and could but coats and practicality
  • 2 0
 @Compositepro: There is some interesting motors with 3D printed copper winding's. but as far as e-bike go gearbox & motor ingratiation will happen at some point!
  • 1 0
 @pcledrew: wonder how many factories switched some of their capacity towards e-bikes this past year. Are e-bikes taking up space on container ships?
  • 4 3
 @moosejuiced: already defined; motorbikes have a throttle
  • 1 0
 @moosejuiced: So… “Ebike” is just not good enough for you? Honestly asking.
  • 1 2
 @mrkkbb: there’s a fair question. How much of the parts “shortage” is due to the market shift towards manufacturing e bikes with expectation that fewer of us would be still demanding new normal bikes.
  • 13 6
 @mrkkbb: to an ebike “doesn’t have a throttle” so it’s not a motorized vehicle/motorbike is just wrong. There is a throttle.ANYTHING WITH A FUNCTIONING MOTOR MUST HAVE A THROTTLE OF SOME KIND BY DEFINITION. Motors output power based on the throttle. The throttle on an ebike ia preset; as in eco, trail or turbo. Are those not throttle preset positions? And the throttle “switch/applicator” is in the BB. When you rotate the pedals it is equivalent to pushing a throttle button to that preset throttle position. So don’t give me this dance around the bush answer. It’s clearly a motorized vehicle. motor + bike = motorbike.
  • 7 4
 @mrkkbb: so do e bikes. The throttle is the cranks. Just because it isn’t a twist throttle doesn’t make it any less of a throttle.
  • 2 0
 @Compositepro: Yeah one of the issues is, given who e-bikes are marketed to, most of that industry has been centered around high-end stuff, top of the line build spec. I understand there may be concerns about throwing a motor in with a Shimano Deore and some barney goes climbin up while changin gears and snaps a chain or derailleur every ride. But I'll open my eyes more to e-bikes when there are some Deore/Fox34 builds for 5k or less. Without being 75 pounds lol. Definitely don't want a 50+ pound bike. Will be interesting to see where things go.
  • 1 1
 @pcledrew: i guarantee my twist ( it is lockable) throttle grip for e bikes will give that moto feel
  • 1 0
 @lepigpen: i have no doubt that if you look back to the time when expensive hop up parts were all the rage , a time will come where a 2-3 grand motor and battery will sell just like dropping a turbo or bigger lump in a motor vehicle theres an entire market just like a lot of the moto guys
  • 1 0
 So one could store more baguettes, cheese and wine in the left room? Sold!!!
  • 3 3
 @moosejuiced: Do some research on the topic.
It definitely can not be classified as a motorcycle, there could be an argument for moped classification but really it would only apply to a handful of countries and I'm pretty sure the finer details of max speed, weight, no throttle or clutch controls and pedals that must be used for propulsion keep it out of the motorcycle classification of vehicles. Not sure why people get there panties in a twist over this, seems childish. Let's not forget the bicycle led to the motorcycle which in turn led inventors to the automobile. E-bikes can very well be the catalyst to better vehicle designs and new technologies that we can benefit from in other areas of transportation. Amazing how many people can't look past there front wheel. Motorcycle's, Mt Bikes and E-bikes are all awesome! These E-bike discussions sound eerily like the 29er arguments of past, we all know how that went.
  • 2 2
 @moosejuiced: That's about ignorant as hell, good luck using that reasoning. Maybe you should change your name to Merriam Webster since you seem to think you can come up with your own definitions for words that have well established meanings and usages. Pedals are not throttle switches, hell I'd argue a switch can not be throttle. A throttle is for metering the flow of a liquid or electrons. A switch is either on or off. There's a reason E-bikes should be clearly defined as there own class of vehicles.
  • 2 1
 Love this comment! seriously, @brianpark can we get a Mountain Bike specific website again! Just move all the E-content to PinkEBike.com
  • 2 0
 @konadan: Sorry, that's behind the paywal... Smile
  • 184 33
 Don't know but apparently my e bike filter is broken. That's a bigger issue.
  • 109 71
 There's another option to just not click the article
  • 83 2
 @stumphumper92: Willpower is for the weak.
  • 43 16
 @stumphumper92: Are you insane! Or are you some sort of Boomer? I cannot fathom anyone who would tolerate their eyes being accosted by headlines on subjects I have chosen a tribe against. Pinkbike has not only triggered me with this inexcusable oversight, but must be held accountable in the court of unhinged outrage! /s
  • 46 3
 Ugh, because our unpaid intern forgot the eMTB tag on this one. Sorry.
  • 9 0
 @brianpark: Paging @mikekazimer.

Oh, that might now be @mikelevy
  • 7 13
flag pen9-wy (Oct 8, 2021 at 12:57) (Below Threshold)
 @brianpark: yeah right (clickbait cough cough)
  • 18 13
 @brianpark: You get what you pay for.

Try paying them.
  • 12 3
 @pourquois-pas: If I send you a dollar, will a decently crafted joke still fly over your head? Do I have to pay more for you to get it?
  • 2 8
flag pourquois-pas (Oct 8, 2021 at 13:15) (Below Threshold)
 @sherbet: there's this internet thing

/s

otherwise...given the prevalence of unpaid internships, Mr Park's was perhaps not as obvious as you suggest.

If in jest, my bad.
  • 4 2
 @brianpark: Please tell me you meant to say Sorry not Sorry.
  • 2 0
 @sherbet: hence the article and the premise.
  • 4 3
 @brianpark: whom would have guessed. Blame it on the intern. You guys have gone mainstream ethics and all!
  • 12 1
 @Chuckolicious lol nah I actually am sorry, the least we can do is make the eMTB filter work properly.

@pourquois-pas using /s makes me die a little inside every time.

@FoesKnows "I'm sorry to any who were offended..."
  • 1 0
 @Chuckolicious: since you're already triggered, you might as well pull the trigger on a 32 lb ebike. jk jk ;-)
  • 2 3
 @sherbet: so are ebikes
  • 5 0
 @brianpark: Not sure why, but /s has become more and more needed on PB as of late... Some people don't be realizing 95% of every comments section is literally pure "slash S". Internet so aggy these days...
  • 3 5
 Uh-oh, chuckolicious got triggered about e-bikes again, everybody watch out. It's an electric moped, not a personality
  • 3 5
 How does one opt out of seeing e bike content?
  • 6 0
 Just engaging so everyone in this thread who wanted to forget about this eBike article gets an alert about it.
  • 99 2
 For me, part of my love of bicycles is their "simplicity". yes, they have gotten far more advanced over the years. but there is something elegant about a purely mechanical machine in this day and age where electronics are everywhere else in our day to day lives.
  • 12 1
 I built a single speed 2 years ago and couldn't echo this enough. While I love the technological wonders of my FS bike, I've done far more miles on my SS HT. It's dead simple and more rewarding.
  • 2 0
 Yes! I have a fully rigid mtb for when I don't want to faff around with suspension etc. Simplicity is part of the appeal sometimes. I even took up trail running a season or two ago and barely biked at all. Showing up to the trailhead with shoes and water was a relief. Nowadays I need to charge more and more batteries and maintain components just to ride. It can be a burden.
  • 2 0
 @DJR2013: The crazy thing is I can ride the same stuff on my rigid single speed but just more cautiously. You have a huge amount of suspension in your arms and legs. But sometimes I chicken out.
  • 3 2
 Agreed. That's why there is a gravel bike right next to my e-bike Smile
  • 5 0
 @angelofverdun: Up next, single-speed e-bikes
  • 2 0
 @mbl77: this is my favorite comment ever
  • 3 0
 @angelofverdun: I wish I was weird (& strong) enough for a SS.
  • 1 0
 @DJR2013: the things you own can end up owning you etc..
  • 6 1
 Yes! And with this simplicity comes ease of use and maintenance. I have a couple of bikes that are decades old and if I want to go for a ride, I'll just have to check tire pressures, maybe a little chainlube and off we go. E-Bikes just don't age well and after 5 years most of them are worthless mounds of special-recycling trash
  • 89 35
 This is Mountain biking!...not motor-biking!
  • 31 8
 So the mountain does the biking, not the motor?
  • 6 10
flag DoubleCrownAddict (Oct 8, 2021 at 21:00) (Below Threshold)
 Downhill on an e bike isn't that much different than downhill on an non e bike. The motor just gives you more laps.
  • 46 0
 I am of the opinion that some mtbers like Type 1 fun and others like Type 2. I have figured out that I lean towards type 2 camp based on the fact that after shuttling, I feel ripped off that I didn't actually get to ride my bike (ie climb). On the rare occasion I do a full ride and get a flat or something that ruins my ride, I'm never that mad as long as I got in a good climb beforehand. Ebikes take the type 2 fun away for me but I can see why Type 1 people love them. So no, I would keep riding analog.
  • 41 5
 This. If you're not suffering, are you even having fun?
  • 5 1
 @SS-in-VT: Depends who you ask I suppose
  • 23 6
 @SS-in-VT: 100% agree. I ride my bike to get better, fitter, faster, stronger.

If I was a rich-ass maybe I'd ride an e-bike on recovery days but for me, a big part of riding is pushing my body to its physical limit. Lift days are fun to improve DH skills, but my favourite thing to do is big days of climbing laps 100%
  • 12 5
 I have fun in being the only motor of my bicycle.
  • 3 2
 Weird how you can say something ruins a ride but you're still happy. That something didn't ruin a ride, it just changed the outcome. It sounds like you don't like riding, you like climbing. Also, I guess you haven't heard the news that you can still crank as hard as you want on an ebike, major type 1 efforts, you just go faster than without the assistance.
  • 1 2
 @justinfoil: F me you're absolutely correct!
  • 3 0
 @justinfoil: i find it builds muscle up to 16mph e bike helps after that your dragging an extra 10kg of bike around
  • 47 5
 If you could drink all day and night but not have a hangover, would you?
If you could chuff all day and all night and not be required to do a drug test, would you?
If you could have 18 women but not have to pay for any maintenance or child support, would you?
If you could drive at 300km an hour in the burbs and never kill or be killed, would you?
If could live in the mountains right on the beach, would you?
If you could live like a millionaire and never work or study, would you?
If you could protest the end is neigh and still consume at a massively unsustainable level, would you?

What a stupid and pointless survey, that is nothing more than puff piece support for the industry to continue spewing out ebikes in an attempt to normalise them.

They suck, its lazy and unsustainable and it ain't interesting or athletics. The EWS proved this last week.
  • 4 11
flag Chuckolicious (Oct 8, 2021 at 13:59) (Below Threshold)
 You know Brent has an Ebike offering, right?
  • 1 0
 Amen
  • 67 23
 E bikes are complete trash and horrible for the environment. It also contradicts the whole point of mountain biking.
  • 14 4
 +1.
  • 19 12
 @dh-bomber So you eschew lift access too, right?
  • 17 13
 @Chuckolicious: or driving to a riding area?
  • 7 2
 Like carbon?
  • 6 6
 if you are indeed a dh bomber think of an ebike as an uplift. power up to top, turn off for way down, thats how I roll...
  • 3 2
 @bat-fastard: That's exactly how I'd see myself using one.
  • 2 1
 Not mtb’ing at all is way better for the environment too. Walk barefoot everywhere!!!
  • 6 2
 E-bikes have their place. Older riders, riders with disabilities, riders with heart conditions.
  • 6 12
flag mcozzy (Oct 9, 2021 at 7:06) (Below Threshold)
 Old fashioned pedal bikes have their place also. Museums, for poor people, for those stuck in the past and for when your house doesn't yet have electricity.
  • 5 3
 @Chuckolicious: lift access can benefit from economies of scale. One lift can support millions, maybe billions, of rides through its lifetime. How many batteries and motors does it take to supply the same rides? How many mines to get materials build the batteries? How much power for charging the batteries? Fuel for shipping the extra weight of batteries and motors? How much resources are used over the long term? The lift is going to be more efficient in the end.
  • 2 1
 @justinfoil: my nearest lift is 6hrs drive and a 2hr ferry away, only runs summer months too...
  • 5 1
 think of it like VIAGRA for old guys
  • 3 2
 Upvote to oblivion, amen. If I was rich, I would buy them all and have a big bonfire. Or, just pay Pinkbike and everyone to stop promoting them. Or... pay the manufacturers to stop making them... Or... invent a mini EMP device that I could use to zap any that get near me! Death to Emtb
  • 2 0
 @jake28: the hilarious part is that here I see most eriders taking shuttles just like normal dh riders
  • 1 1
 @madmon: define old not vicious
  • 1 1
 @justinfoil: Not sure your aware of the immense amount of electricity that a lift uses. I remember hearing the lift at Highlands which is quite small uses somewhere in the realm of $3000-$4000 of electricity a day. That's not a 24hr period either, just hrs of operation. Not a chance in hell your efficiency argument holds water buddy. Most resorts don't run the lifts everyday because if there's not enough people paying to ride them, then they can't afford to run and maintain the lift. You should try applying that reasoning to a ski lift, considering there's around 42 lift companies worldwide and only 2 in the US. They need motors, materials and electronics sourced from multiple locations also, such a one sided argument is hilarious. Must be nice looking at the world through a peep hole.
  • 1 0
 @MikeGruhler: I didn't say cost effective for the owner, I was talking resource and usage costs versus thousands of ebikes making the same number of trips up the hill. The fact that many lifts don't spin everyday actually supports this in that the fixed cost of the lift itself must be low enough that they can don't need income every single day to amortize that cost.

I also didn't say at all that lifts don't require massive resources, but over their total lifetime, it's quite likely that they move more people and bikes uphill than the equivalent massive number of ebike motors and batteries could move.
  • 1 0
 @justinfoil: Just saw this. So first off, I was just calling out his hysterical "horrible for the environment" thing. You can't argue that carving up a mountain side and installing the massive infrastructure of lifts, lodges, parking lots, condos, etc, doesn't fall into that category too. But to your other points. There's a thing called a Life Cycle Analysis (LCA). Sometimes known as Cradle to Grave. They are complicated calculations that attempt to quantify the total carbon footprint of a given product or activity. One would have to consider all manor of possibilities. 800lb gorilla is the recyclability of batteries. Specialized already made a deal with Redwood. The EV industry is all about repurposing and then recycling cells (same cells in Ebike batteries too). Repurpose for stationary grid storage since they tend to have many years of that type of duty left after they are no longer good for traction motors. But in the end, recycling is big money and everyone is all over it. I am certain that within 5 years, these types of cells will reach the same 95%+ recycled that lead acid car batteries have now. Yep, the most recycled item on earth is the venerable lead acid car battery. Source of electricity to charge your bike? Getting greener every year. Renewables are taking over at an ever increasing rate. Heck, I have solar panels on my house, so when I get one al my electricity is free from the sun, no carbon will be released in that process. But in the end, it's complicated, and will have different answers depending on market, region, use case, etc. Oh yea, and what about all the brodozer self shuttle groups? Even commercial operations with their Ford vans. Kind of the worst case right there, right?
  • 1 0
 @dh-bomber So, you had a bunch of people respond to you, and you just disappeared into the ether. What gives?
  • 1 2
 @Chuckolicious: Here, I'll respond for him... I just deplore the concept of them. Motorized vehicles on MTB trails. A motorsports mentality infesting pristine singletrack. Burn them, batteries and all! :]
  • 1 0
 @justinfoil: And it's as if the universe just wanted to laugh at my 5 year prediction for battery recycling, this just in:

electrek.co/2021/10/12/tesla-supplier-catl-announces-5-billion-battery-recycling-facility

GI Joe: "and knowing is half the battle"
  • 39 4
 If the cost were the same I guess I could see the general appeal of the e-bike a little more (for somebody else). Personally I pedal for exercise and sense of achievement. if I'm going to buy something for adrenaline that is eclipsing $10,000 it better have at least 40-50hp not 2hp.
  • 41 12
 How about a poll where you ask if people want e-bikes removed completely from pinkbike?

I don’t think you have the guts to do it. Prove me wrong…
  • 20 1
 like how gmbn made a different site for Embn
  • 4 0
 Or post an ebike article and see how many people click and comment on it.
  • 30 4
 I already have enough problems working on bikes as is, I don't need the complexity of needing a computer to work on my mountain bike. Car ownership stopped being fun to me when I couldn't even change out my brake pads without hooking up a laptop to the OBD port. I get the appeal of E-Bikes. Even after years of questioning it. I see the value for certain people. I ride because I want to be able to challenge myself and reap the fitness benefits. I can't drag myself to a gym so riding is the only exercise I do. I don't want to make that any easier. Sure I could do more laps on an e-bike, but if I keep pushing I could do more laps on my own.
  • 9 1
 You're getting downvoted, but the bigger issue of e Ike maintenance isn't complexity, it's anti consumer practices by motor manufacturers. 'Authorized repair center' is the key phrase that should have you running away.
  • 3 1
 @Glenngineer: I figured i'd be downvoted to oblivion here anyways.
  • 42 21
 I would still hate them and their annoying users that cannot understand the difference between a motorbike and a bicycle just as much
  • 16 19
 @specialk1 Gotta say, you come across as a bit unhinged.
  • 8 10
 @specailk1

Why u mad bro?
  • 32 13
 I'll quit riding bikes before riding an eBike. I already have motorcycles (motorcycle racing is how I got into MTB). And I'm a distance runner, I'd rather run that ride a battery bicycle.
  • 16 40
flag manitunc (Oct 8, 2021 at 12:45) (Below Threshold)
 Please do. No need for you to be blocking the trail.
  • 34 13
 Burn them with FIRE no matter what they weighed or cost.
  • 20 5
 This question is unreal. E-bikes aren’t bikes. As soon as you add a motor to a bike you get a motor bike. It is a categorical fallacy right off the bat. You are either riding a bike or a motorbike. There is no “oh but it only has so much power, etc”. It’s a motorbike. Call a spade a spade for the love of god. Please quit pretending ebikes are bikes. This charade has gone on long enough. Wakeup.
  • 7 3
 I with you in this fight, but we’ve lost. The manufacturers see so much profit in selling motorbikes that people can stealth onto MTB trail systems.

You’ll notice that no one wants to ride their electric motorbike on are trails…because the trail is all torn to shit and ugly from the power of a MOTOR.
  • 5 1
 @Steadite: exactly! And the only thing that’s going to change is more power!!! Soon they’ll be twice the power of a dirtbike but they’ll still push their “it’s just an ebike w pedal assist bro” BS.
  • 15 2
 For me, if they weigh and cost the same, you could ride off the power if you wanted to with no penalty, and only use the power when needed/wanted. Win win. Will it ever happen though? Ebikes are silly expensive now and I don’t see that changing - if the companies sell them at these prices, why sell them for less?
  • 14 1
 Now they will raise the normal bikes price
  • 6 1
 Ya I have seen many people say "when they become more affordable maybe I will buy one." Not gonna happen if they are already selling out at the prices they are at right now. Even regular bike prices are climbing quickly. Plus these "pandemic prices" are here to stay.
  • 1 1
 My thoughts exactly @addz14. No real reason two own a bike that performs the same as an 'off'ebike.
  • 12 20
flag withdignityifnotalacrity (Oct 8, 2021 at 12:25) (Below Threshold)
 I bought me second hand Levo SL for $5.5k. It weighs about 40 pounds, makes climbs fun and shreds the descends without any noticeable downside. The future is now old man.
  • 5 2
 Fk yes I'd get one for the same price and weight! But then so would everyone else so I'd still be slow.
  • 5 1
 @Noeserd: Good point- ebikes won't fall to "normal" bike prices, normal bike prices will rise to meet ebike prices.

The weight will never be the same though. As technology progresses, and things get lighter and lighter, normal bikes will also get lighter, and motor + battery will never weigh 0
  • 7 2
 @withdignityifnotalacrity: Levo SL is indeed super fun. I've demoed it a couple times on trips now. Definitely my choice over a full fat when the day comes I pull the trigger. Funny thing, though. Seems most of the haters fall into the millennial age bracket, with a smattering of older zoomers. Cynical Gen X like myself seems to say "dang, these things are pretty fun!". Boomers seem to say "gimme now". Strange days.
  • 4 3
 @Chuckolicious: It's so fun and there's almost zero downside. I ride on the east coast and there's lots of logs and rocks you need to hop over- maybe a bit more effort but no problem and I am by no means a Jeff Lenoski. I can pre-ride enduro courses without blowing up my legs, shuttle downhill courses and stay with my homies on the way down. The motor is a little loud, that's literally the biggest downside.
  • 1 2
 @withdignityifnotalacrity: The downside of the SL models are how much they break down. The tinfoil hat crowd say that the big S lose money on SLs, since they are super expensive to produce and they have so many warranty/service claims. S tolerates this because the SL is a loss-leader and grabs headlines for its published weight.

Read the Vital review of the Orbea Rise and its comparison with the SL.
  • 2 1
 @withdignityifnotalacrity: It's funny, I actually worry I may become bored of some of my VT/NH haunts when I get one. Out west, big mountains, I love it. But around here, even lapping Killington or North Conway could get boring. Ahh well, I guess it'll be a good problem to have!
  • 3 3
 @Chuckolicious: I was just in Vermont for a month (I'm based in mid-Atlantic) and I don't see how you could possibly get bored. I was on the acoustic bike, but lapping Perry Hill or Cochran's would be the dream!

@hamncheez: The SL motor is pretty robust actually, it's the standard Levo motor that was having a lot of issues.
  • 3 2
 @withdignityifnotalacrity: Heh... good friends with the guy, and now his son, that built Cochran's over the past 20 years. Honestly, I'd lap the crap out of it, then keep riding down the road to Perry with a range extender. Or, could go to Suicide 6 and basically wear a track into the climbing trail. :-D
  • 3 1
 @Chuckolicious: you lucky bastard, the trails are so good! And the possibilities are endless. I'm a working dad, being able to get a thousand feet of elevation in a one hour after work ride is just the best.
  • 2 5
 @Chuckolicious: Thats right. Cynical millennials realise that climate change is real but oversold, darwinism is to cleanse a population and want to see these polluting and unneccessary items cleansed from the earth. The new generations doth protest and carry on around the end is neigh, but dont really care and would sell it all for an xbox and social welfare.
  • 1 1
 @withdignityifnotalacrity: Next season, do some time in North Conway NH. It. Will. Blow. Your. Mind.
  • 17 4
 I simply don’t want electronics on my bike. Of any kind. Part of the appeal to bike for me is the fact that they are basic mechanical machines that are human powered. When you start to integrate electronics, then phone apps, for your machine to work, you’ve jumped the shark for me.

If there comes a day when you can’t buy high end suspension without electronics. I’ll hang up my tires for good.
  • 17 3
 I wish someone would teach an e-bike etiquette class. I'm glad people are getting out on bikes, I'm glad people who otherwise couldn't be on a bike are on a bike. but for the love of god stop tailgating me on climbs.
  • 7 3
 Then pull over and let faster riders go by. I don’t ride an e bike, one of the reasons is that people are such dicks when you ask very nicely if you can go by when they get to a good spot. Its not my fault I like to climb fast. It’s just as big an inconvenience to be the passer as it is to be the passee... I can’t imagine how rude most riders are to someone on an e bike out having a great day and just needing 1.5 seconds to go by and go the speed that’s comfortable to them for the next 30 minutes of climbing rather than hanging out behind your slow ass for an extra 15 minutes...
  • 2 1
 @sitkadog: OK buddy, cool your jets. That's exactly what I do, except the riders I'm referring to don't ask. They just tailgate. If they ask, I let them by. I have zero problem letting faster riders by when I have a chance.

Not to mention nothing I said pertains to you, so have a great day there guy!
  • 2 1
 @sitkadog: Let me rephrase now that I've had coffee. Our trails do not have 30 mins of sustained climbing. Everything here is punchy ups and quick downs on very tight single track. What I'm referring to is having no one behind me on the downs, and then all of a sudden someone is buzzing my rear tire. If it was a simple "hey on your left!" Then cool man come on by as soon as I can get over, but that isn't whats happening.

Also, I feel like the vast majority of e-bike riders in my area are all riding pandemic purchases, and may not be familiar with how trail etiquette works and don't realize that not everyone can sustain 15mph with a motor on every single section of trail.

I'll end by saying this. If you were behind me, and I was holding you up, I would feel bad about it and try like hell to find a place to let you by. However if you're just going to come flying up on me at mach e-bike chicken and literally hit my rear tire, then you can suck an egg.
  • 20 7
 At the end of the day, I want to be able to gauge the strength of my own legs, not some buzzing motor. If I do an epic ride, I want to have the satisfaction that I did that myself rather than getting an electrical assist.
  • 6 13
flag Chuckolicious (Oct 8, 2021 at 12:26) (Below Threshold)
 You actually can. I'm pretty sure the Mission Control app will tell you how many watts you put into the ride, and how many the battery/motor did.
  • 2 16
flag manitunc (Oct 8, 2021 at 12:50) (Below Threshold)
 And why should we care what you want!
  • 8 14
flag DylanH93 (Oct 8, 2021 at 13:13) (Below Threshold)
 Isn't that kind of the same sentiment people had about suspension on mtbs when it was new? "Suspension is for motorcycles. I want to earn my turns with my rigid single speed. Anything else and you should just go to the dirt bike park." Attitudes will change with time, just like they always have. People are afraid of new things, neophobia.
  • 4 0
 @manitunc: lol, isnt that the poll question.
  • 16 4
 Environmental issues that I don't want to support. Carbon fiber is already a big enough problem without adding horrible big batteries to the situation, plus the metals and materials needed to make them... Sorry, NOT sorry.
  • 11 3
 I love riding both, and I think there are benefits for both. I prefer my mountain bike when i'm riding with all my friends and or want a fun but killer work out. I ride the emtb when I want to do more laps. On our local trail, it takes all my energy to climb to the top and ride down. on a typical day I can do it once, maybe twice. on the e bike I can do it 3 times maybe four times, in the same amount of time and energy burned. There are Pros and Cons to both. I'm glad both are around. I hope more people get both. They are good for the industry.
  • 1 0
 Where do you ride in Fresno? Clovis? The Sierras? I grew up in the foothills not far from Visalia so genuinely asking.
  • 5 6
 Your opinion is wrong.
  • 3 2
 @Kyleponga: dude, no it’s not. We’re all allowed to have our own thoughts and opinions.
  • 2 0
 @Kyleponga: Enlighten us as to why then?
  • 1 1
 @extratalldirtrider: he’s a friend of mine you jabronie. I can say things like that to him.
  • 2 0
 @extratalldirtrider: I ride in fresno, up at 007 by bass lake, or Squaws Leap mostly.
  • 18 5
 f*ck you OUTSIDE™️
  • 10 2
 Where is the "This poll is irrelevant. If you can't write an article, don't bother us with a poll but ride your bike instead" button?

An e-mtb is pretty much the same as an unassisted mtb. On top of that it only has:
- a high end and constantly evolving motor
- a big battery made out of (conflict) materials in high demand
- electronics and constantly evolving software

The question is, what if the components above would cost and weight next to nothing? What is this, Friday Fails?
  • 8 0
 What if things had no mass? Is essentially the question here.

Yeah it's a weird one.
  • 1 1
 I want a poll about how many motors/batteries you had warrantied this year only by brand?

1-5
  • 7 1
 I have no issue with e-bikes, and like the idea of getting more laps in the same amount of time. That being said, I don't want the added complication of a battery and motor on my bike.

Also on the industry/marketing side of things, I really don't want regular vs e-bikes to go the way of alloy vs carbon frames, where you can only get basic components on a normal bike, and all higher end bikes have a motor. I want a heavy ass enduro bike with nice boingers on it, and no motor.
  • 9 3
 Answers 3 and 4 split the vote and make it look like the majority agrees with this premise and is lined up to buy an e-bike. At the time of posting, the majority of voters prefer a human powered bicycle, under any circumstances.
  • 9 2
 Those boomers and their ebikes. The losers that built many of the trails I love to ride. How dare they want to enjoy riding said trails as long as they can. Go ride on motocross trails you moped riding a holes.
  • 5 1
 I like that the ebike will be an option when I start to get old and creaky, but for now it's not a necessity. Even at the same weight and cost, it's one more battery to charge and another complex mechanical system that could break
  • 18 9
 Keep mopeds out of mtb
  • 11 7
 Bro, you can’t f*cking ride these things. They are not legal on 99% of trails, and half the trails they are legal on are lift assist anyways. If I wanted to ride a bike on MX trails I’d just get a brand new MX bike for the same price as an ebike. This isn’t a matter of “this vehicle is too heavy to have fun on” or “minimum wage workers deserve performance mtb-ebikes” this is legality, no amount of marketing and halfassed comparisons to rim brakes and rigid forks is gonna change that
  • 9 5
 After demo’ing a Orbea Rise for a few days I was thoroughly impressed. Turn the motor off and it rides like a slightly heavier normal bike. Turn the motor down and it’s very close to identical. Super bagged and want to do one more lap? Turn it up.
Anyone who’s tried one would be willfully delusional to think it rides like a tank or that’s it’s like a motorcycle.
I don’t know why more bike brands aren’t jumping on this platform. Especially considering it’s impossible to buy a Rise because of demand. I can see this style e bike “light” in a more enduro and all mountain build and geo being a goldmine for manufacturers.
Orbe, E-Rallon please. Santa Cruz? E Megatower please
  • 1 0
 Can you slide the battery out of the Rise and just ride it as a regular bike on days that you want a little more cardio? It definitely hides the 'ebike' look very well.
  • 3 0
 @dirtdiggler: no. You’d have to take the motor out. The one I rode was 38’ish pounds. Basically DH bike weight. Super poppy and agile though. I’ve tried a few full fat e bikes and they feel like pigs. Orbea felt no different than a normal bike to me
  • 1 0
 @b824: Got it. I need to check one out! I know people buy ebikes to have pedal assist all the time but I dream of the day you can slide out the battery and go for s single track ride then the next day slide the battery back in and get some climbing and DH runs in. I know there are options out there where the battery can be pulled out easily but the bikes are usually downright hideous.
  • 4 0
 Stupid question. That's like saying, "If an enduro bike weighed the same as an XC bike would you still own an XC bike?" It's an impossible scenario so why even consider it? Whatever tech could allow the heavier bike to get lighter would allow the lighter bike to get even lighter.
  • 4 0
 The modern full suspension bike is arguably more complex and advanced than the original iterations of the 1990's, but the simple formula is the same. I'm not interested in changing the formula for the complexity of electronics.
  • 10 6
 If they weighed the same and cost the same, they’d perform the same on the trail… except for the climbs, which you will just be able to do more of. You’ll earn even more turns!
  • 4 1
 First of all, its impossible for an equivalently speced ebike to both weight the same, cost the same as a bike. Even so I would stick with the regular bike, I need the exercise. I would only get an ebike if I developed heart issues or something that requires keeping the heart rate from getting too high. I ride with some ebikers from time to time, and that seems to be the biggest difference, that they don't spike their heart rate.
  • 4 1
 I have an E-bike - but it's a cargo bike for shopping and stuff - we live a few miles uphill from the shops so well worth while with a week's grocery shop on board. Right now the battery management system has a fault and needs replacing. As it's a DIY motor conversion I can get spares and repair it - it's a chore but needs to be done - like you'd get your car fixed.

However I really don't fancy having an e-mtb and being stuck in a closed system with expensive electronics, which I can't see not going wrong after a few years of ploughing through rock gardens and mud slurry. Remember this is supposed to be for fun?

Like others here, I like my full suss but the hardtail sees a lot of use in wet weather - my bike leisure time is split between maintenance and riding, so low maintenance is more riding.
  • 6 3
 It is more rewarding, imho, to ride a regular one. Not only you ''earn your turns'', but you also have that feeling that you need your speed, cause you cant just claim it out of thin air. All my bikes either were a singlespeed (Dirt Jumpers) or ran a DH transmission with short cranks. Yes, I mainly walk up, shuttle, or use a lift, but the reward of every feature is so much bigger.
  • 10 7
 Well I’m 37, have had a broken pelvis, hip, legs, knees, back and shoulder & elbows. I’ll earn my turns. Cycling is what keeps me sane. The whole weak ass excuse of I have had an injury so I can’t keep up without an ebike is utter bullshit. In PT learning how to walk again all I could think about was riding again. Ya I couldn’t keep up for a while but just like any riding, you don’t get better/faster overnight.
  • 5 5
 Hardass on them steep Indiana climbs.
  • 3 3
 @reed81: ya because I can’t ever leave Indiana?
  • 2 1
 @sunringlerider:
Na, I wouldn’t think that you can’t leave Indiana. That would be as dumb as saying I have had(insert long list of injuries) and I can still keep up so everyone else who has had an injury is giving a weak ass excuse that is utter bullshit if they resort to an ebike. Glad you made it through the injuries and aren’t one of the people that ended up disabled.
  • 4 1
 for me, e-bikes are only for town, or if you have health issues.
but in my opinion, bike is (and should stay) a purely human powered sport, where you push yourself.
if there is any engine, that's another sport called motorbike.
but from my perspective, a good part of the happiness in the sport (not all of it) is when you finish that massive climb by yourself.
  • 3 0
 E-bikes will always be heavier. And E-bike riders will always be softer.

I’m not one to say E-bikes are cheating. Because the one being cheated is the E-biker themself.
Use it or lose it. Start relying on a motor to help you get around and I see a rascal mobility scooter and a stairway assist in your geriatric destiny.
  • 6 1
 I've always wanted to say this... ...If my aunt had balls she'd be my uncle!
  • 3 1
 Seriously if mountain bike companies could strive to bastardize, trivialize and/or fetishize the natural world as little as possible that would be cool. If E-bikes could fit into that somehow, I'm ok with them. Henry Quinney's opening comments about electronics on the latest podcast Ep. 84 sum up my views about Ebikes for my own use. But I do see how they could help the sport.
  • 3 1
 Oh boy, this again. I can already detect foaming at the mouth. But thus far this is winning with 1/3 of total current votes:


"526 [1552] If they're otherwise identical you might as well have a motor."

All of the outrage (er "outrage") I have has gone into high MTB prices. I can't get too excited about the eventual inclusion of ebikes into the MTB fold.
  • 2 0
 IF the bikes were legal to ride on the trails where I live (they are not), and IF the bikes weighed as much, and cost as much as a normal bike, then I can see myself considering them.

I grew up dirt biking, and I quite enjoy mountain biking. I have no qualms about the idea that I could also enjoy some sort of hybrid between the two. But personally, the appeal of "slight" help on the climbs is more appealing than "just take me to the top electrons!". I do enjoy the fact that I get a good workout out of a bike ride (in fact, its basically half the reason I ride, as its an activity I chose BECAUSE I enjoy it enough to WANT to stay in shape to do it).

But something like a class zero ebike, where the max assist was like 100w, or something like that.... would be an interesting product category on this topic. Because even with my smart trainer at home (which has helped my riding immensely as a father of 2 kids, as I can do child care and get some fitness in on the weekdays/nights), I can understand the appeal of doing 50% more vert in a ride than whatever your current fitness level can provide (no matter the level it is now).
  • 2 0
 @ocnlogan I asked this question to a big company recently. Apparently the motors on offerings like the SL are already as light as they can be, so a 100W version wouldn't really lose any weight. Still has to deal with the same forces. Batteries will see incremental improvements over the next decade in power/weight ratio, trickling down from automotive. But no game changers there either. But I do agree with you that if a 100W assist was available and actually saved some real weight over the SLs, I think I'd bite. And oh yea, I love my Tacx Neo 2 and Zwift. Finally get to stem the winter fitness loss!
  • 7 5
 No doubt this will get lost in the comments section but genuinely why all the ebike hate, especially on more aggressive terrain?
What is the difference between using an ebike to do laps and getting an uplift?
If the trails are steep enough you are barely on the pedals anyway?
  • 2 0
 I answered that I like to earn my turns, which is true, but it's not totally cut-and-dried. I really like climbing and suffering, and my favorite rides are big backcountry days where I just wouldn't want an ebike. Most of my riding is winch and plummet though, and while I don't see myself getting an ebike anytime soon, I see the dudes running lap after lap on their e-bikes at our local down low spot, whereas I'm climbing for an hour top to bottom, and I see the use case for sure. These are gnarly-ass trails best ridden on burly-ass bikes, and there's no shuttle option available.

So, as a thought exercise, if e-bikes were the same cost and weight—hell, just the same cost really, then yeah, I'd bring one into my garage. I wouldn't go selling my analog bikes or anything, but it would serve a purpose and I'd use it here and there without feeling weird about it.
  • 3 1
 In the past 7 years, only two friends have bought regular bikes, and then five have bought e-bikes.

I don't want to give up on being able to ride a regular bike (I'm in my mid-40's now), and I don't want to drop the sort of coin a good e-bike costs ... but if I could buy a 16.5kg e-bike for okay money, then I'd likely get one at some point. Just not in a big hurry, as the tech is getting better and better each year.
  • 2 0
 I have 3 bikes at the moment, if ebikes weigh the same and cost less I'd ditch all 3 in a heartbeat... this is coming from someone who lives somewhere where bike shuttling is basically nonexistent and we have to pedal 10 miles to the trail head
  • 5 3
 Here's a topic I'd love to see Pinkbike cover: Why do so many shops refuse to work on e-bikes? Interview a bunch of shop owners and service managers, from both shops that do and don't work on e-bikes, about what it's like to work on them, and what the typical e-bike customer is like. The shop I work at (and many others in my area) refuses to work on them, both because the e-bikes themselves, and the people who buy them, can be very problematic...to put it charitably. E-bike resistance isn't just tribalism or neophobia; there are real problems here.
  • 2 0
 @barp Hmm… odd that. I know most of the shops in the PDX area, along with SF, LA, most of New England. Don’t know one that won’t work on an ebike. Not one. Got an example? I’d love to ask them about their decision.
  • 1 2
 @Chuckolicious: I'm not going to call anybody out, but there are plenty others, based on the number of customers who start a call with "Do you work on e-bikes?" I googled "bike shop won't work on e-bikes" and this thread was the top result; maybe you could start there: www.reddit.com/r/ebikes/comments/o7y0ek/bike_shops_wont_work_on_ebikes
  • 1 3
 @barp: A Reddit thread. Yea. So I can 100% guarantee that the vast majority of shops in PDX and literally anywhere else will happily work on an ebike. Only caveat is if the problem is with the motor or controller. Then it might be beyond their scope unless they are an authorized dealer.
  • 1 2
 @Chuckolicious: I can 100% guarantee that your breath smells like feet, and I have just as much evidence as you do for your guarantee.
  • 2 2
 @barp: Oh man, come on. Spreading FUD about ebikes? Really? Yea, I've been in and out, and in again with the industry over 30+ years. I actually do know a thing or two. That reddit thread had like 3 people speaking in vagaries, that's all you can come up with? And who would you be calling out? If a shop has a no ebike policy, then it's their...you know... policy. Clearly they would want the public to know about it. So I call BS. You're full of it. Is there a random LBS here and there who's owner is some kind of kook who bans ebikes? I bet there is. In my 3+ decades I've seen things you people wouldn't believe. Attack ships on fire... But you being all coy and hinting there's some movement, yet providing exactly no specifics? That's called spreading FUD. Jesus man, how can you look at yourself in the mirror?? If you have to lie and spread FUD to support your preferred narrative, maybe it's time to reconsider its "preferred" status?
  • 1 3
 @Chuckolicious: My point with that reddit thread was that yes, shops refusing e-bikes is a real thing, which you could have verified for yourself with the teensiest bit of research. Call me a liar all you want, doesn't matter to me. I know what I know and it doesn't trouble me if you want to live in your own fantasy world.
  • 1 2
 @barp: No, your point was to spread FUD claiming there is some sort of movement amongst shops, which is a bald faced lie: "Here's a topic I'd love to see Pinkbike cover: Why do so many shops refuse to work on e-bikes? "

Kinda weird, you not realizing what you yourself just put in writing, huh? Toddle off, liar. Thanks.
  • 2 0
 @Chuckolicious: Seems to me the bigger problem is that shops CAN'T work on ebikes. Okay, not all, but a lot of them have zero clue. Is this because manufacturers don't offer proper diagnostic manuals, parts support, service training, etc? Or is it because shops don't take the initiative to pursue the available training? What's the word on the street? And what's the plan for the future.

Right now it feels like the shops barp is referring to have the mentality of "I started a bicycle shop, not a motorcycle shop.... this isn't my forte"
  • 2 2
 Shops that don't have ebike repair skills will eventually go the same way as the manufacturers that don't have an ebike in their lineup. Dodo.
  • 2 2
 @agraber: Like I already said. If it’s a problem with the motor or controller, that might be an issue. But bleed my breaks? Swap a cable? True a wheel? Yea, virtually every shop in existence will happily get paid to do that. Barp is a liar, plain and simple.
  • 2 0
 They will never be as light...you have the extra weight of the motor and the battery to encounter or...And they'll never be the same exact price....You'll always have the extra motor and the battery to pay for, it's getting better tho
  • 4 2
 I am certainly not anti-Ebike. I’ve never tried one, or had the opportunity to do so financially. All the videos I’ve see of riders laughing on their way up the hill and lapping the other riders on non lift assisted bike parks certainly makes me raise a questionable eyebrow. Still, at 52 years old, I am happy to pedal my tired ass up the hill, maybe puke up a lung or two, and have my rewards. Makes me feel good about myself.

My only concern (and I’ve done no research yet to back this up, so I’m just blowing smoke) is what happens when those batteries expire? Is there a positive recycling solution to this issue, or will we just be creating another environmental problem? Again, I’ve never really looked into the long term effects of rechargeable batteries, so go ahead on school me. (I have the same thoughts about all the batteries in the electric cars). Perhaps my opinion of battery operated or assisted modes of transportation will perk.
  • 11 5
 This is dumb
  • 1 0
 If there were no penalty to either the weight of the bike or my wallet, I’d get the one with the motor. Then I could ride to the trailhead more often from my house or wherever I was staying, ride normally and then e-motor home.
  • 4 1
 When you live in a place where ebikes aren’t allowed in your national parks or any nearby trail networks, what’s the point.
  • 4 11
flag DylanH93 (Oct 8, 2021 at 13:10) (Below Threshold)
 But who's going to notice in the first place, let alone stop you from riding an ebike? As long as you're not being a jackass, I doubt anyone would care. And even if they did, what do the cops come out? Just ride into the forest lol, they're not about to get on bikes themselves and chase you. And if they do, put it in boost and you're all good lol.
  • 9 2
 @DylanH93: with that logic you might as well ATV on singletrack, nobody is gonna catch you and likely nobody is gonna report you. You’re still being a jackass. The solution to ebikes isn’t “just break the rules”
  • 1 1
 @fewnofrwgijn: an atv wouldn't be fun on single-track and you would absolutely get caught quickly. An ebike is quite different.
  • 1 0
 @DylanH93: i think the bigger point is that when you depend on land managers for access and they say no ebikes, then by just riding there anyway you are risking getting ALL bikes banned from the land, thus ruining it for everyone.
  • 2 1
 I have been wanting and waiting for the bike industry to follow the Levo SL, but nobody really has. Every company seems to only be making the 55lb full capacity ebike. Seems like the more logical choice is to make a lighter weight ebike with moderate power assist as most riders don't really need a full powered ebike. Bummer there are only a couple of lightweight ebikes and they are uber expensive.
  • 2 0
 Orbea Rise and Kenevo SL are of the same veign. I do hope more brands follow suit.
  • 1 0
 @withdignityifnotalacrity: don't forget that lapierre either.
  • 3 2
 Same weight and same cost, I'd probably go ebike. Put it in eco mode when you want it to feel like a normal bike or get some boost on days you're tired. Sounds like a win win. My neighbor has been riding since the 90's and was always against them. Then he got a kenevo and fell in love with it. Best case is probably having one of both for different situations.
  • 13 12
 Funny how so many of these folks are all against ebikes, but have no issue with lift access or shuttle laps. I KNOW for a fact that MOST mountain bikers don't enjoy the pain of climbing. Including myself. I've been riding for 20 years, not a single time have I ENJOYED climbing. But it's a necessary evil unfortunately for most of us. So yeah... I'll admit it, even if most won't... Uphill assist with no cost OR weight penalty?!?! F*ck yeah... I'd take it in a heartbeat. Without a doubt.
  • 9 1
 How do you know who is against shuttles and lift service. I never done either. As for enjoying climbing, that is not the point. Most people don't climb because they enjoy it. They do it for the challenge or for the exercise. I much rather climb on a mountain bike than say jog or do an elliptical.
  • 4 5
 @ctrailbiker: Cuz I know a lot of us don't wanna climb, for the same reason we don't hit the gym, or jog, or whatever. Some of us don't have the want, or need to "stay in shape". We're just out there to have fun. And we're probably a much larger percentage of people who ride than you think. But, hey.... I'm just speaking from experience with the people I've ridden with over the last two decades. Different strokes for different folks I suppose. And, as for your first question... We see people on PB b*tch about ebikes constantly. BUT, how often you hear people on here complain about chair or shuttle access? Almost never... Jus sayin
  • 4 2
 @tmwjr777 You don't Know near as much as you think you do. I hate climbing and that's what I love about it. It's called type two fun bro! Also there are places that have rolling hills. Nobody here in the rolling terrain is riding the trails for the downs. They're just not that exciting here. People do cross country races, endurance races, road riding, ect. Those people are riding for the exercise, the endorphins, the burn, the feel of accomplishment. I ride road, cross country, and in the mountains. I fairly regularly run in to people that say they are scared or even don't enjoy going downhill on both road bikes and mountain bikes.

Don't assume your experience is the same as everyone else.
  • 2 0
 @tmwjr777: this poll is designed to create conflict in the chat. As I said I have little interest is lift access park riding. However lift access trails are designed to be one way downhill only trails and are therefore not at all a relevant comparison. Fwiw I’ve been riding for the last 3 decades and ride with ebike folks all the time. Just because I don’t want to ride an ebike doesn’t make me anti ebike.
  • 2 0
 @ctrailbiker: So much of what appears on this site nowadays is about creating conflict in the comments. More clicks is the new mantra.
  • 1 0
 @ctrailbiker: Absolutely this kinda article is meant to cause debate/conflict in the chat. I'm sure a lot of users came here just to read the comments. LOL.... Anyhow, Like I said earlier, "different strokes for different folks". Honestly, I myself. If I lived in an area with no sustained downhills, shuttleable trails, or lift accessed trails. I probably wouldn't be MTN biking. Cuz that's what got ME hooked on the sport. High speeds, flow, jumps, drops, etc. But I guess everyone has their own reasons they ride. I've just personally never been a part of "the pedally crowd". But, to each their own. Cheers!
  • 4 3
 In the near future, once supply chain restores and I can actually demo bikes I'm interested in, anything I buy that's over 140mm in travel it will be an eMTB.. Most "bike parks" in my area (Tiger Mountain, Raging River, the new zone at Capitol Forest) and basically glorified shuttle networks. Why not do it on an eMTB? Any big mountain rides I do in the Gifford Pinchot National forest will be on an eMTB.

I've got a 2021 Top Fuel that's perfect for old school cross country in the lowlands. Old school user built trails from either hoes, hooves, or dirt bike tires are perfect for my current bike. My next "big bike" will be an eMTB.
Hopefully by then they figure out how to do integrated systems that charge AXS and lights. Would be nice to have an internal gear box, but won't hold me back from getting an eMTB in the 150/160/170 range.
  • 3 0
 its simply not possible and u still had to charge a battery. So, no thanks Smile by the way, i hate that sound of ebikes, luckily they are passing fast in "Eco" mode Wink
  • 4 3
 #1 - quieter!!! Ebikes sound like kids power wheels .

#2 - lighter. 30 - 33 lbs would be ideal

#3 - more standardization. Way too much proprietary BS that’s mostly marketing garbage. Specialized, you’re the worst!

#4 - drivetrains that last

#5 - Im not buying another one anytime soon. Having to Constantly charge them, not being able to work on them, Shit breaking or not working all the time, and Most of the mechanics around me had no idea how to work on them either. They make you a slower / weaker rider. Maybe when I’m 60 these we’ll be better. I’ll wait for boomers to piss away their money on them now and by the time I’m ready they’ll be prime!
  • 1 0
 As I’m getting older and definitely more time poor it’s something I’ve considered for the ability to get more laps in less time but honestly I enjoy the feeling of cranking up the big hills even if it means a little less laps. Plus they’re way outside my happy price range…
  • 10 5
 Best money I ever spent. Ebikes rule
  • 1 0
 If they were the same price and weight I’d considered it, and I’d probably use it more as a commuter to use my truck less. But the price and weight far exceeds what I can afford or what I’d like to pedal on a daily basis.
  • 3 2
 I would own one if I could afford it. That doesn't mean that I don't appreciate the simplicity of BMX bikes. I want one of those too. But ebikes are amazing. It doesn't matter if some want to call them mopeds or whatever. They handle really well on downhills and techy trails and I would be able to do multiple laps of the trails I enjoy most without having to resort to a shuttle vehicle or a chairlift. Pinkbike users don't seem to hate in chairlifts or environmentally destructive cehicles. Most of my rides I enjoy suffering on climbs, often on a rather heavy hard tail. But there are times when ebikes are the best piece of equipment for the terrain. Having said all that the difference might be that I rarely see other riders or trail users, do don't experience the hate.
  • 7 1
 The issue isn’t that they exist or that people ride them. I think they’re fine and great for a lot of people. Maybe even the masses. The issue is that they are not bikes. They don’t belong on bike trails. That’s the issue. Keep them on motorized vehicle trails and all the issues are gone. They are motorized vehicles are they not??? Bikes are not motorized by definition.
  • 2 1
 I think the Kranked motor that Bjorn Enga developed and markets is interesting. I think it can be added to any bike and removed easily after doing a few mods. It's expensive and I haven't really researched it but if it allows you to use your regular bike with an easily removable engine then it makes sense.
  • 1 0
 I didn’t read the comments. To me you need to qualify if I have other bikes in the stable or if this is my only bike. You also need to specify said weight. If I have a bike in the stable already and now it’s additive, and the question becomes a bike 36lbs or heavier for bike vs motorized bike. Ya f*ck it, I’ll take the ebike. Be great and I’m curious to try a new sport. If no other bike in stable and the bike is 33lb or lighter I’m taking the bicycle , not the ebike.
  • 4 2
 That's like asking, "If I could take a helicopter to the top of a mountain, would I do that instead of climbing them?"
The answer is no. What is gained from riding a mountain bike has nothing to do with how easy it is.
  • 1 0
 Are gearbox companies designing gear boxes to fit these motor unit areas. The bike companies have avoided making frames for gear boxes for whatever reason but they jumped on the motor bandwagon quick. This seems like an opportunity to make gearboxes more mainstream
  • 1 0
 There are very specific reasons bike companies have not designed gearbox-compatible frames: high weight and low efficiency.

That said, ebikes do seem like a good candidate to use a gearbox - you have pedal assist to help counteract the low efficiency, and the weight is already going to be high.
  • 4 1
 I bike for quality not quantity... the whole idea of earning my turns is why I keep doing this sport... since 82 and still sending it
  • 5 2
 well, when a norco range is nearing 40lbs, i think we're definitely heading in that direction!
  • 7 5
 Assuming no bikes in the garage, I'd take the regular bike. But e-bikes are fun as hell, so if the prices were equivalent, an e-bike would be the next target.
  • 2 1
 I'd get one for my spouse that hates riding with me because she feels like she's "holding me back" or "making me go slow." I love riding with her, but it stresses her out that I'm not breathing hard for some reason.
  • 5 0
 Laps
  • 11 8
 If they weighed the same they'd be that much easier to pick up and throw off a cliff
  • 4 4
 I've noticed loads of ebikes on the second hand market. face book market place is full of them, loads on ebay. I think the novelty wares off with ebikes. Thay are great fun even better for the injured I used one after braking my scapula. but I can't see spending 5_10,000 quid on something that can't handle long term abuse and a couple of batterys on top so your not going home after a couple of hours .i think it's starting to show in the used market that people are bourd of them.i think alot of people decide thay may as well just get a sur ron or a real motocross bike for less money and sell up in the end.
  • 4 2
 I rented one for the day a few weeks ago. The chap who rented it to me told me that they go through consumables like nobody’s business, so I they’re quite expensive to keep running.
  • 2 0
 Like any true Scotsman I will of eventually get an ebike, as long as it is not connected to the web, when I need one to use in the coming war against the cyborgs. Freedom!
  • 3 0
 You're data is of course going to be skewed here. These questions were framed, and therefore, ripe for participant bias.
  • 3 0
 The last two answers are essentially identical so as to split the anti-motorbike vote in halves, so that the pro-motorbike option would “win”.
  • 4 2
 I think they're fantastic. The more time people spend outdoors the better. If thats what it takes then so be it. They are a game changer for some people.
  • 1 1
 In a last-ditch effort to keep regular mtb's in production , bike brands marketing them to e-bike owners as the new 'extreme bike', and promoting the radical 'fitness experience '. "You too can get your bike off the ground and look like a pro!".
  • 3 1
 the future of ,mountain biking is doomed just look at the numbers in this poll. I am glad I am an old fuck who rode a bike all his life.
  • 2 2
 I think anyone who rides a chairlift with a bike but has beef with e-bikes is delusional. Ride an acoustic, whatever, but don't pretend it's more real or some. We're all using tech to get up hill easier. Except single speed animals, but they can have their pain!
  • 8 5
 Can you please add a poll filter...
  • 3 1
 When the world ends, I'd prefer there not be a massive paper weight permanently strapped to my Mad Max chariot.
  • 2 0
 Jackery with a couple of portable panels FTW.
  • 5 2
 What if motorcycles weighed and cost the same as ebikes
  • 2 1
 Sur Ron weighs more, for sure. But waaaay cheaper.
  • 1 0
 @Chuckolicious: or you could buy it as a Segway for less then put the upgrades in.
  • 1 0
 @xxinsert-name-herexx: Segway version is more expensive. At least it was.
  • 1 0
 You'd crash and die because the power to weight ratio would be insane. LOL!
  • 1 0
 That would be insane!!
  • 1 2
 I like riding my ebike with the power off. Not all the time obviously otherwise why would I own it? But if I’m with other riders who aren’t on ebikes then I’d rather suffer more from the weight penalty than feel I’m not working hard enough because of having a motor helping.

It would be nice to be able to turn the power off and it be just like my old full-sus uphill though I think I’d miss the mass downhill. I’d still want my 150mm hardtail though!
  • 3 0
 1k pricier and max 5pounds more, and I would already have one.
  • 3 1
 I'd be probably pretty fat if it wouldn't be for 32lbs bikes that need to be pedalled up
  • 1 0
 I would gladly have one traditional pedal bike and an eBike. The only thing that's holding me back is the lack of trail access in my area of Colorado.
  • 5 3
 No screw lightweight bikes, ebikes or not. I prefer the stability of my 25kg eeb.
  • 1 0
 Unless your hardcore xc and and every gram matters, yeah you can have too light of a bike for more dh style riding. But its personal preference. I built a v10 down to 32 pounds once and hated it when going fast over the chunk. Tried it for about a month than built it back up to 36 pounds and it felt way better. It was pretty nice on less aggressive trails but that's not why I ride a dh bike.
  • 2 0
 “What’s the point of fighting for your right to have babies, when you can’t have babies? You don’t have a womb.”
  • 2 1
 Depends on what you want. If you just want to shred an ebike is fine...even better for lots of laps. If you want some PT then a regular bike.
  • 3 1
 The top voted comments vs. the poll results show the difference between the commenters and the masses.
  • 1 0
 Rider interpretation: would you buy a lighter and cheaper ebike?

Bike industry interpretation: can we make normal bikes heavier and more expensive, to match ebikes?
  • 2 0
 I have a patent on zero weight motors, but does not work in this dimension?
  • 2 1
 Jeez, a lot of haters here. Anyway, for me eBikes are just not reliable enough yet. But then I am a single pivot, 10 speed kinda guy.
  • 1 2
 I’ll get my ebike just as soon as…
1. Comment section of pinkbike says it’s ok
2. Same weight as regular bike
3. Someone buys it for me
4. I don’t have to see anyone at the trail
5. Someone removes all the mirrors in my house
6. My son drops me in a ride
  • 3 1
 Long live the mountain bikers who embrace the true spirit of mountain biking! Interpret this statement however you want.
  • 3 0
 Get your popcorn ready
  • 3 0
 Great fire topic!
  • 6 5
 If all things are equal, I'll take a dirtbike, assuming it also weighs and costs the same as a normal bike.
  • 4 2
 "Non assisted bikes cost a mere $7,999"
Lmao! "Mere"
  • 1 0
 "which 2021 model do you pick for delivery as a 24-model with a 55% price increase in 2024?"
  • 8 8
 Lol I can’t wait for all the haters to be old and still want to ride. Good thing everything is forever on the internet so we can call out the hypocrisy.
  • 4 3
 No hate here. I have no problem riding with experienced ebikers who know how to keep good spacing. Very little difference to riding with non ebikers. The poll inherently assumes that you are capable of riding either a bike or an ebike. Personally, my choice is to ride a regular bike as long as I can. I come from a hiking background and my favorite rides are longer rides that take you from point a to b by riding the trial in front of you.
  • 5 4
 The possibility "Everything Off-Road with a motor belongs on a MX-Track" is missing...
  • 3 2
 The Rise is one of the best handling and fastest bikes I have ever ridden, the fact it has a motor is just a bonus.
  • 1 1
 Very true... if your an ebike hater and want to stay that way. Don't give the rise a chance lol. For me, its almost a perfect ebike. Not ridiculously bulky, nor obnoxiously over powered. Only fault is the ep8 knock, but that's not Orbeas fault. It also introduced the Orbea brand to me, they make incredible bikes that I never looked twice at before. Im already planning my Rallon build for next spring.
  • 3 2
 "A mere $7,999.99" what a crock of shit this entitled "author" cooked up for us here today. What a f*cking joke.
  • 1 1
 Probably the same type whom vote for leftists gov and wonder why infaltion...
  • 4 3
 I like to feel close to broken and challenged after a ride. It makes you feel like you’ve earns a beer
  • 1 0
 You can't ride an elite everywhere and I can only afford 1 bike. Guess what its going to be!
  • 1 0
 It just means regular bikes cost is gonna rise and catch up on ebikes cost... haha.
  • 2 2
 I don't care about weight. If I'm getting a motorbike, I want motorbike performance and ebikes just don't cut it in that regard.
  • 1 1
 What If eMTBs Weighed & Cost The Same As Regular Bikes?


Well, this would be tangible proof we live in an alternate universe...........
  • 1 1
 While we are living a fantasy world What if you sailed the Caribbean like jimmy buffet and were greeted by bikini models at every port
  • 1 0
 I was not expecting this much anti-emtb comments, but I'm certainly not complaining about that ig.
  • 1 0
 Rather have one of the new crop of E motos coming out.
Indoor/outdoor e moto tracks are gna be a thing soon.
  • 1 0
 That would be pretty awesome, although, I would like to be able to race on the bike I ride mainly.
  • 3 1
 gonna send it either way
  • 1 0
 But is the motor noisy or quiet?
  • 5 5
 At time if writing, 650 of you are traitors. Cost and weight are not why I don't ebike on trails.
  • 2 1
 catch these hands before catching me on an ebike
  • 3 3
 Eventually they all run out of batteries. I only run out of beer and ride to the store
  • 4 4
 The trails would ruined , busier and other users would bitch so much it would be insufferable.
  • 2 0
 Obviously allow for way more laps so trail maintenance needs way up.
  • 1 1
 Maybe lower end ebikes will be cheaper in the future, but the ones Everyone here will be looking at will never be.
  • 2 1
 I feel betrayed by these results
  • 3 1
 The last 2 answers are to split the anti-motorbike vote into two options, so the motorbike option could win.
  • 1 0
 @Steadite: strange times
  • 4 3
 Just more stuff that can get broken on an ebike. Creaking sounds etc…
  • 1 0
 yes it is slightly more maintenance and you will wear out parts faster because you are shredding like never before. on long rides i bring an extra derailleur as you can mash up your drive train quick as spit.
  • 1 0
 @DDoc: An extra derailleur?! Man that is so 1990.
  • 1 1
 So when are ebikes going to be able to quick disconnect the whole drive system?
  • 1 2
 Does this ultra light, ultra cheap future ebike still go “clack, click, clack” constantly when riding any real DH trail….?
  • 1 0
 why does it have to be one or the other?
  • 2 3
 Notice how the last two answers are essentially identical so as to split the anti-motorbike vote and make the “yeah, I’ll take the mythical light motorbike” the winner.
  • 3 4
 One of the poll options should have been 'im a jealous penniless loser who will never be able to afford one so I will hate on those who can. oh and 26" isn't dead.'
  • 2 0
 Hey, that’s me!
  • 1 0
 Is it possible to select all 4 options?
  • 10 10
 Engines don't belong in nature... That's it.
  • 1 0
 Well the entire world was nature at some point right?
  • 11 10
 Boomer scooters!!!
  • 4 4
 who's behind this crap topic anyway?
  • 1 0
 Sociologists with marketing backgrounds looking to see if they can coerce the truth out of us to sell the proposal.
  • 2 2
 What if a ktm cost the same as a mountain bike? I'll see myself out.
  • 3 4
 My electric bill is high enough, thanks.
  • 2 4
 Who gives a f*#k about weight when you have a throttle. Braaaaaaaaaaap!!!!!! Braaaaaap!!! BRAP!
  • 1 0
 They're coming! Suron storm bee and some other by ebmx.com liquid cooled E full size moto. Then u have the electric motion offerings
  • 2 3
 Yeah...NO!
  • 1 3
 (Battery explosion! Forest Fire).
  • 3 6
 NOPE!
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