Pinkbike Poll: What If eMTBs Weighed & Cost The Same As Regular Bikes?
Batteries are getting lighter and cheaper. E-bikes are getting lighter too - the Orbea Rise pictured above weighs as little as 16.5Kg (36.4lbs) and Specialized's Levo SL is similarly svelte. That's no heavier than some of the pedal-bikes we ride.
Sure, these stripped-down e-bikes have tuned-down motors and smaller batteries than most e-bikes, but they will still smoke any regular bike uphill and get more laps done in any given timespan. Call that lazy if you like, but anyone who's taken a shuttle or a chairlift can see the appeal.
While riding a 25Kg (55lbs) eMTB has its upsides (they smooth out fast, rough chatter like nothing else), the slow speed handling can be lethargic, they can be hard to slow down, and it's a mission to get one over a fence or into a car. In that context, these lighter e-bikes are far more intuitive to ride if you're used to regular bikes, and they're more responsive and engaging too. But while they weigh no more than some enduro rigs, they're still a few kilos heavier than similarly high-end trail bikes, so they're never going to feel quite the same to ride.
Speaking of high-end bikes, e-bikes are still considerably more expensive too. The top-spec Orbea Rise I mentioned costs $10,500, while the equivalent Orbea Occam LTD non-assisted bike costs a mere $7,999 and weighs almost four kilograms less.
Similarly, the S-Works Specialized Kenevo SL costs $15,000 and weighs 18.5 kg (40.9 lb), while the S-Works Enduro it's based on costs a trifling $9,750 and weighs 14.7 kg (32.5 lb).
So, e-bikes still come with a hefty penalty in terms of both money and weight, yet e-bike sales are booming. That got me thinking. Hypothetically, if an e-bike version of your ideal trail/enduro bike weighed and cost the same as the pedal-powered version, which would you go for?
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Now price, however, would be nice to see come down over time. But it's just a market at the end of the day. E-bikes will get better and cheaper over time, but the high end ones will still be nearly double the price of high end non-motor bikes.
I will say I'm glad brands are doing e-bikes that don't look like wank and are great for just a quick 2-4 hour spin. The next problem I'd love them to solve is reducing whirring noises. I know some are worse than others. But I can't stand that noise. Particularly if its higher pitch, a lower pitch would be preferred if they can't make it silent.
That said, SkyPark is a great bike park that does not have a lift. Not only that, but it absolutely has a climb that is either built for e-bikes or people who like suffering (considering there is a less steep, longer climb that gets to the same top lol)
As somebody who grew up on BMX and trials, I wouldn't mind trying an Eeb one day for tech climbing. I love tech climbing already, but it's indeed very rare to see a sustained tech climb benched at a manageable grade with interesting features.
But right now it doesn't make any sense for most people.
It definitely can not be classified as a motorcycle, there could be an argument for moped classification but really it would only apply to a handful of countries and I'm pretty sure the finer details of max speed, weight, no throttle or clutch controls and pedals that must be used for propulsion keep it out of the motorcycle classification of vehicles. Not sure why people get there panties in a twist over this, seems childish. Let's not forget the bicycle led to the motorcycle which in turn led inventors to the automobile. E-bikes can very well be the catalyst to better vehicle designs and new technologies that we can benefit from in other areas of transportation. Amazing how many people can't look past there front wheel. Motorcycle's, Mt Bikes and E-bikes are all awesome! These E-bike discussions sound eerily like the 29er arguments of past, we all know how that went.
Oh, that might now be @mikelevy
Try paying them.
/s
otherwise...given the prevalence of unpaid internships, Mr Park's was perhaps not as obvious as you suggest.
If in jest, my bad.
@pourquois-pas using /s makes me die a little inside every time.
@FoesKnows "I'm sorry to any who were offended..."
If I was a rich-ass maybe I'd ride an e-bike on recovery days but for me, a big part of riding is pushing my body to its physical limit. Lift days are fun to improve DH skills, but my favourite thing to do is big days of climbing laps 100%
If you could chuff all day and all night and not be required to do a drug test, would you?
If you could have 18 women but not have to pay for any maintenance or child support, would you?
If you could drive at 300km an hour in the burbs and never kill or be killed, would you?
If could live in the mountains right on the beach, would you?
If you could live like a millionaire and never work or study, would you?
If you could protest the end is neigh and still consume at a massively unsustainable level, would you?
What a stupid and pointless survey, that is nothing more than puff piece support for the industry to continue spewing out ebikes in an attempt to normalise them.
They suck, its lazy and unsustainable and it ain't interesting or athletics. The EWS proved this last week.
I also didn't say at all that lifts don't require massive resources, but over their total lifetime, it's quite likely that they move more people and bikes uphill than the equivalent massive number of ebike motors and batteries could move.
electrek.co/2021/10/12/tesla-supplier-catl-announces-5-billion-battery-recycling-facility
GI Joe: "and knowing is half the battle"
I don’t think you have the guts to do it. Prove me wrong…
Why u mad bro?
You’ll notice that no one wants to ride their electric motorbike on are trails…because the trail is all torn to shit and ugly from the power of a MOTOR.
The weight will never be the same though. As technology progresses, and things get lighter and lighter, normal bikes will also get lighter, and motor + battery will never weigh 0
Read the Vital review of the Orbea Rise and its comparison with the SL.
@hamncheez: The SL motor is pretty robust actually, it's the standard Levo motor that was having a lot of issues.
If there comes a day when you can’t buy high end suspension without electronics. I’ll hang up my tires for good.
Not to mention nothing I said pertains to you, so have a great day there guy!
Also, I feel like the vast majority of e-bike riders in my area are all riding pandemic purchases, and may not be familiar with how trail etiquette works and don't realize that not everyone can sustain 15mph with a motor on every single section of trail.
I'll end by saying this. If you were behind me, and I was holding you up, I would feel bad about it and try like hell to find a place to let you by. However if you're just going to come flying up on me at mach e-bike chicken and literally hit my rear tire, then you can suck an egg.
An e-mtb is pretty much the same as an unassisted mtb. On top of that it only has:
- a high end and constantly evolving motor
- a big battery made out of (conflict) materials in high demand
- electronics and constantly evolving software
The question is, what if the components above would cost and weight next to nothing? What is this, Friday Fails?
Yeah it's a weird one.
1-5
Also on the industry/marketing side of things, I really don't want regular vs e-bikes to go the way of alloy vs carbon frames, where you can only get basic components on a normal bike, and all higher end bikes have a motor. I want a heavy ass enduro bike with nice boingers on it, and no motor.
Anyone who’s tried one would be willfully delusional to think it rides like a tank or that’s it’s like a motorcycle.
I don’t know why more bike brands aren’t jumping on this platform. Especially considering it’s impossible to buy a Rise because of demand. I can see this style e bike “light” in a more enduro and all mountain build and geo being a goldmine for manufacturers.
Orbe, E-Rallon please. Santa Cruz? E Megatower please
However I really don't fancy having an e-mtb and being stuck in a closed system with expensive electronics, which I can't see not going wrong after a few years of ploughing through rock gardens and mud slurry. Remember this is supposed to be for fun?
Like others here, I like my full suss but the hardtail sees a lot of use in wet weather - my bike leisure time is split between maintenance and riding, so low maintenance is more riding.
Na, I wouldn’t think that you can’t leave Indiana. That would be as dumb as saying I have had(insert long list of injuries) and I can still keep up so everyone else who has had an injury is giving a weak ass excuse that is utter bullshit if they resort to an ebike. Glad you made it through the injuries and aren’t one of the people that ended up disabled.
but in my opinion, bike is (and should stay) a purely human powered sport, where you push yourself.
if there is any engine, that's another sport called motorbike.
but from my perspective, a good part of the happiness in the sport (not all of it) is when you finish that massive climb by yourself.
I’m not one to say E-bikes are cheating. Because the one being cheated is the E-biker themself.
Use it or lose it. Start relying on a motor to help you get around and I see a rascal mobility scooter and a stairway assist in your geriatric destiny.
"526 [1552] If they're otherwise identical you might as well have a motor."
All of the outrage (er "outrage") I have has gone into high MTB prices. I can't get too excited about the eventual inclusion of ebikes into the MTB fold.
I grew up dirt biking, and I quite enjoy mountain biking. I have no qualms about the idea that I could also enjoy some sort of hybrid between the two. But personally, the appeal of "slight" help on the climbs is more appealing than "just take me to the top electrons!". I do enjoy the fact that I get a good workout out of a bike ride (in fact, its basically half the reason I ride, as its an activity I chose BECAUSE I enjoy it enough to WANT to stay in shape to do it).
But something like a class zero ebike, where the max assist was like 100w, or something like that.... would be an interesting product category on this topic. Because even with my smart trainer at home (which has helped my riding immensely as a father of 2 kids, as I can do child care and get some fitness in on the weekdays/nights), I can understand the appeal of doing 50% more vert in a ride than whatever your current fitness level can provide (no matter the level it is now).
What is the difference between using an ebike to do laps and getting an uplift?
If the trails are steep enough you are barely on the pedals anyway?
So, as a thought exercise, if e-bikes were the same cost and weight—hell, just the same cost really, then yeah, I'd bring one into my garage. I wouldn't go selling my analog bikes or anything, but it would serve a purpose and I'd use it here and there without feeling weird about it.
I don't want to give up on being able to ride a regular bike (I'm in my mid-40's now), and I don't want to drop the sort of coin a good e-bike costs ... but if I could buy a 16.5kg e-bike for okay money, then I'd likely get one at some point. Just not in a big hurry, as the tech is getting better and better each year.
Kinda weird, you not realizing what you yourself just put in writing, huh? Toddle off, liar. Thanks.
Right now it feels like the shops barp is referring to have the mentality of "I started a bicycle shop, not a motorcycle shop.... this isn't my forte"
My only concern (and I’ve done no research yet to back this up, so I’m just blowing smoke) is what happens when those batteries expire? Is there a positive recycling solution to this issue, or will we just be creating another environmental problem? Again, I’ve never really looked into the long term effects of rechargeable batteries, so go ahead on school me. (I have the same thoughts about all the batteries in the electric cars). Perhaps my opinion of battery operated or assisted modes of transportation will perk.
Don't assume your experience is the same as everyone else.
I've got a 2021 Top Fuel that's perfect for old school cross country in the lowlands. Old school user built trails from either hoes, hooves, or dirt bike tires are perfect for my current bike. My next "big bike" will be an eMTB.
Hopefully by then they figure out how to do integrated systems that charge AXS and lights. Would be nice to have an internal gear box, but won't hold me back from getting an eMTB in the 150/160/170 range.
#2 - lighter. 30 - 33 lbs would be ideal
#3 - more standardization. Way too much proprietary BS that’s mostly marketing garbage. Specialized, you’re the worst!
#4 - drivetrains that last
#5 - Im not buying another one anytime soon. Having to Constantly charge them, not being able to work on them, Shit breaking or not working all the time, and Most of the mechanics around me had no idea how to work on them either. They make you a slower / weaker rider. Maybe when I’m 60 these we’ll be better. I’ll wait for boomers to piss away their money on them now and by the time I’m ready they’ll be prime!
The answer is no. What is gained from riding a mountain bike has nothing to do with how easy it is.
That said, ebikes do seem like a good candidate to use a gearbox - you have pedal assist to help counteract the low efficiency, and the weight is already going to be high.
It would be nice to be able to turn the power off and it be just like my old full-sus uphill though I think I’d miss the mass downhill. I’d still want my 150mm hardtail though!
Bike industry interpretation: can we make normal bikes heavier and more expensive, to match ebikes?
1. Comment section of pinkbike says it’s ok
2. Same weight as regular bike
3. Someone buys it for me
4. I don’t have to see anyone at the trail
5. Someone removes all the mirrors in my house
6. My son drops me in a ride
Lmao! "Mere"
Well, this would be tangible proof we live in an alternate universe...........
Indoor/outdoor e moto tracks are gna be a thing soon.