Evil Bikes Announces Company Layoffs

Feb 17, 2024
by Ed Spratt  

Evil Bikes has announced that it has faced layoffs following "several challenging years."

In a public statement, the company revealed the round of layoffs affecting its team in Bellingham, Washington. Evil Bikes said the members of staff had helped the company as it "navigated the pandemic & its ups & downs" but "it is with heavy hearts that we bid farewell to some of our best friends."

bigquotesToday we bid farewell to a few members of our team who have worked so hard for Evil. They helped Evil through several challenging years as we navigated the pandemic & its ups & downs.

The individuals in this photo design, assemble, and ship every Evil bike to you from our headquarters in Bellingham, Washington. It is with heavy hearts that we bid farewell to some of our best friends. Join us in raising a glass to a few of our teammates that are sidelined until the next big game. We hope to recapture this image when the industry recovers. Until then, we thank these few for everything they have given Evil & we wish them all the best.
Evil Bikes

In a further statement supplied to Pinkbike the CEO, Jason Moeschler, added that while the company has continued to produce and sell bikes at a "reasonable pace" the current margins are "not sustainable toward our current staffing levels." Jason Moeschler also said "this decision was heartbreaking, although necessary to maintain healthy business."

bigquotesEvil is a small company that very much behaves like a family. We eat together, we ride together, and we work hard together.

In March 2022, demand fell industry-wide, coinciding almost perfectly with the COVID-era supply chain blowing wide open. Retail inventories quickly amassed & prices fell. While we have continued to produce & sell bikes at a reasonable pace, the retail & wholesale margins associated with these sale prices are simply not sustainable toward our current staffing levels.

Today’s reduction in staff was one made entirely out of necessity. None of these decisions are personal – these individuals are hard-working, dedicated members of our team. This decision was heartbreaking, although necessary to maintain healthy business & continue providing some of the best products & services available to our valued customers.

We have confidence in our brand, our product, and our team. Evil is here to stay & today’s decision was a necessary, yet heartbreaking bump in the road.
Jason Moeschler, CEO at Evil Bikes


Author Info:
edspratt avatar

Member since Mar 16, 2017
3,057 articles

495 Comments
  • 276 21
 An unfortunate day of Wreckoning.
  • 162 13
 That's an Evil comment...
  • 76 13
 The let go staff were a sacrificial offering
  • 121 9
 They're just Following industry trends
  • 23 47
flag wobblegoblin (Feb 17, 2024 at 5:44) (Below Threshold)
 You’re almost guaranteed to create a Faction of people who won’t buy your bikes if your customer service is actually evil.
  • 12 30
flag korev FL (Feb 17, 2024 at 5:44) (Below Threshold)
 @sandwich: It's Epocalypse...
  • 17 22
flag in2falling (Feb 17, 2024 at 5:56) (Below Threshold)
 I will be Following this closely
  • 11 8
 If they’re not careful, they could have a Revolt on their hands.
  • 38 119
flag PtDiddy (Feb 17, 2024 at 8:06) (Below Threshold)
 @wobblegoblin: This might be an unpopular opinion, but I won’t buy one because of the name.
  • 8 17
flag Trentabartlett (Feb 17, 2024 at 10:29) (Below Threshold)
 This news really left a mark. Might need some Chamois to lesson the pain.
  • 43 8
 @PtDiddy: that’s really dumb
  • 32 48
flag PtDiddy (Feb 17, 2024 at 12:12) (Below Threshold)
 @sanchofula: Why is that dumb? I don't want to ride something that says evil on it. Not a big deal, I would just rather not.
  • 27 17
 Their warrany sucks, thats why no one buys them anymore.
  • 13 4
 This just wasn't their calling
  • 5 17
flag scary1 (Feb 17, 2024 at 14:48) (Below Threshold)
 A-HAA! A truly Evil corporation.

Or…maybe an LLC, I’m not sure



A-HAA!
A truly Evil Limited Liability Corporation!
  • 18 3
 @Legohead: Their warranty is great. Bought a used frame that ended up having an issue. When calling the, and asking if the rear swing arms is available they sent me one for free. Was totally fine with paying but they wanted me shredding an Evil. The 1st gen Insurgents were great bikes.
  • 11 5
 @Legohead: one of the best in the game since a few years, stop talking random crap with no knowledge
  • 10 9
 @PtDiddy: unpopular opinion, nobody care
  • 6 9
 @Legohead: agreed. A definite dealbreaker for me
  • 16 0
 At least they speak up and announce it.. lol, unlike so many other companies who just go quietly into the night
  • 19 36
flag SurfNC (Feb 17, 2024 at 20:38) (Below Threshold)
 @PtDiddy: agreed. Unfortunately we live in times where evil is good and good is evil. Not surprising and predicted thousands of years ago if you know where to look...
  • 22 10
 @SurfNC: are you guys just super religious and therefore blind folded? Or am I missing something?
  • 6 2
 @nicoenduro: wasn't my experience with them so put that in your pipe and smoke it.
  • 5 1
 @nicoenduro:

What? How? Last year my friend got a cracked frame (inner part) near the derailleur (Sram Transmission) installed with a digital torque wrench. So nothing else could have happened except weak carbon layup. They wouldn't hear anything. Blew our brains. Never ever again an Evil.
  • 7 0
 @DenSeven: Yep. I had exactly the same thing with an Insurgent. Evil couldn’t have been less interested outside trying to sell me a new rear triangle. Their warranty is non-existent.
  • 6 6
 @PtDiddy: I agree. Not saying I wouldn’t ride one but the brand doesn’t resonate with me
  • 11 17
flag SurfNC (Feb 18, 2024 at 6:30) (Below Threshold)
 @nicoenduro: I used to be blind, but now I seeSmile
  • 24 6
 @PtDiddy: Interesting that you won't ride a bike with the word "Evil" on it, but you apparently have no problem representing yourself behind a username associated with sexual assault and trafficking. I mean, you do you, but if we're basing things on names, the bike looks a lot better than you right now.
  • 14 15
 @SurfNC: your god is myth
  • 21 20
 @duncanstrohnd: my name is Paul Davis and my close friends have been calling me PDiddy long before he ever did. It was my nick name first. It’s associated with me, not him.

I don’t know how the bike name would look better anyways. Doesn’t evil encompass sex trafficking, child molestation, murder, abuse, sexual assault, and basically anything evil?

I just don’t want to buy a bike with the name evil. I don’t know why everyone is getting so bent over it. If the bike was called the molester, the raper, or trafficker, would you all buy it? To me evil encompasses all those horrible vile acts. So I don’t want it on my bike.
  • 16 13
 @nicoenduro: Words have meaning, and the concept of “evil” is neither exclusive to religion, nor any particular language or culture. Hitler was evil. Slavery was evil. Some say Hillary Clinton or Trump are evil. Maybe people just don’t want to bring the negativity associated with that word into the world any more than it needs to be.

It’s not a neutral word and naming your company that word is going to be polarizing. That’s fine, but they gotta realize that some people are going to react negatively to it and not buy their product because of it. It is what it is.

That said, based on the comments here, it seems their problems go far beyond the mere name.
  • 7 10
 @nicoenduro: To use some less polarizing examples of evil — murder, rape, theft (bike theft!), extortion, bullying, etc.
  • 6 6
 @TheR: I think you said it more eloquently than I can.

I would like to add I don’t think the brand or anyone that rides them intends to endorses anything evil. I have friends that ride them. They are beautiful bikes. I just choose to go with other brands.
  • 12 1
 @PtDiddy: gonna go out on a limb and say you've never owned a Cove? Smile
  • 7 1
 @PtDiddy: Fair enough, I get that - it's not your thing. It's not mine either, but that's more because of their overly complicated linkage than the needlessly edgy branding.

The brand name is marketing, as is yours to a lesser degree. You're obviously a principled person, but that is not apparent by your username. Just as you wouldn't ride a bike labelled "Evil", there are people that may refrain from engaging with you because they take issue with your name and may never have the chance to discover it's origin from your perspective.

Anyway, Sunday afternoon boredom and soapboxing. Have fun whatever you ride.
  • 1 1
 @PtDiddy: just a note- you can peel the decals off and leave it blank or add some of your own (my buddy put a HUFFY sticker on his enduro and it looks rad), just in case you ever want to try one out. They really are great riding bikes.
  • 14 1
 @duncanstrohnd: that’s a fair point you make.

Wait, did we just have a constructive conversation in the pinkbike comment section? Evil has brought us together…
  • 4 0
 @plyawn: Yeah I think the porno names ruined the brand as the people who bought those bikes got older. Hard to explain to my 10y/o why my bike is called a Blowjob or something lol
  • 2 1
 @duncanstrohnd: out of curiosity, what do you ride to claim delta is overly complicated?
  • 2 1
 @DenSeven: what? how? well i was helping some friends at the bikeshop selling them, so i know how they handle warranties and such if ever needed, and i heard nothing but prompt responses and quick turnarounds. not something you can say about many brands sadly. moreover, even some out of warranty problems solved regardless and for free.
problems like yours above are quite rare but can happen with many brands.
in my personal experience the customer assistance is quite awesome both from a private owner and from a retailer point of view
  • 5 3
 @PtDiddy: Yeah, I think they’re nice bikes, too, and I don’t believe they’re trying to be truly evil or that they are really evil people. It’s all part of the edgy bad-boy, rad-boy marketing, which is way older than Evil bikes. People either buy into it, or they don’t. Gotta say, it really doesn’t speak to me.
  • 4 7
 @nicoenduro: only super religious people don’t like evil things? Stop watching scary movies and get out into the real world. Hitler, PolPot, and myriads of other EVIL people have committed atrocities, raped, murdered, oppressed others. Why would I want to have EVIL as the brand of my bike. Or better question - why would you think that someone would need to be religious to not be drawn to that brand with so many other choices. I would think there are a lot of thoughtful atheists, agnostics and religious people that get turned off by the brand’s name.
  • 6 5
 @PtDiddy: exactly, not throwing shade on anyone who owns one, but I dont love the brand name and don’t want to promote “evil”
  • 4 4
 @NERyder: I wrote exactly this 10 comments ago. No one wants to discuss rationally-because you really can’t defend the concept of evil—just vote it down.
  • 4 3
 @NERyder: why would you? Because you’re not dumb.. but this doesn’t seem to be the case.
Fearing a word and start doing random associations with it
Y’all crazy
  • 6 6
 @nicoenduro: Random associations? You mean its exact definition? It’s not fearing a word but a repudiation of what it represents. There are millions of words in the English language, and yet they chose that specific one. Why? I mean, Specialized was already taken, but they could have gone with something like Fluffy Puppy or Choir Boy Bikes. They didn’t. They went with Evil. There’s a meaning behind that word they thought resonated with their company, products and brand image. Thousands of bros might think it’s cool, I’m just not one of them. To me, there’s a enough “evil” in the world.
  • 1 3
 @plyawn: Ok, I had to google cove to figure out what you meant. Lol, when I was in high school I would have thought those were awesome names. I have two daughters now so I would probably not ride one of those bike. I don’t want to have to explain a few of those.
  • 2 4
 @nicoenduro: Ah yes, we are evilphobic.
  • 3 5
 I am not offended by the name "Evil". I just think is sounds a bit douchey.
  • 4 4
 @nicoenduro: who is fearing a word? You’re bringing a lot of assumptions and baggage into this interaction. The word evil has a definition, so no random associations on my end. If they named their company killer, murderer or gangster bikes I wouldn’t be a fan of their name choice. I wonder what random associations or fear of those words you would you like to project onto the fact I wouldn’t like them either
  • 4 1
 @KUNTHER: Their warranty is great *on paper*. In practice, I have found it to be terrible bording on offensive.
  • 3 2
 @NERyder: then go get a flower bike and keep getting triggered by the mean world out there
  • 2 2
 I think the main attraction of the word "Evil" in art is that by the religious fundamentalists it is considered the polar opposite of what they were doing. Yet atheists would disapprove of the mess these organized religions (or at least the mess they advocated through their religion) left in society (including those they colonized in the Americas, Africa, South-East Asia etc) including the rape, discrimination, murder, intimidation, molestation etc. We can argue all day long whether or not all these elements are inherent to organized religion or not, I think (or at least should hope) that it is safe to say that no one here approves of any of these elements mentioned. Some would see that reflected in their religion, others in the polar opposite thereof.

At the end of the day though, everyone is free to not buy a product for whatever reason, whether that reason can be justified or not.
Cove and 24Bicycles: Because their frame names are sex related.
Cannondale: Because cannons have caused lots of collateral damage throughout history.
Da Bomb: Similar for bombs even worse than above.
Abus: Because of their discrimination of women, based on fundamentalist believes.
Pole: Because a link snapped in their huck-to-flat test.
Shimano: Because of rapid rise, dual control levers and the oversized Saint centerlock interface two decades ago...
  • 9 6
 honestly, at this point (christ your boring), hail satan
  • 1 0
 @nicoenduro: I ride a Devinci Troy, but it's more the trails that I ride than the bike - Evil's linkage just looks like I'd be constantly working to keep it clean of dirt and plant matter. They're gorgeous bikes, and perform well, I'm just lazy I suppose.
  • 5 0
 @duncanstrohnd: That's why people like the Orange bikes Smile .
  • 2 0
 guessing all the money went to the imperial and there were no insurgents to oppose the movement.
  • 2 5
 @PtDiddy: You should be the one to explain those terms to your daughters, its better for it to come from someone they know, trust and care about, rather than the alternative.
It your responsibility to educate your daughters, and that means having uncomfortable discussions so they are well equipped for what faces them every day.

If youre not equipped to have those conversations, then you prolly should have given a second thought to having children.

Side note, theres no way your nick name was P-Diddy before it was popularized by Sean Combs. Youve made an excuse for being called out on something.
  • 2 0
 @duncanstrohnd: just misinformed, it doesn’t require any more cleaning or anything that every other full suspension
But, nice choice with the Troy! Seems like a mean bike!
  • 4 0
 Holy crap. Could we have some humor and perspective???? They call the brand Evil probably because some people like an edgy aesthetic (also see: skateboarding, snowboarding, etc.), or perhaps because a lot of riders like to adopt an aggressive approach to riding trails (and are most likely otherwise kind and thoughtful people in all other aspects of life), or… the brand founders were sick and tired of the vanilla, homogeneous, mundane names of bike companies that are turning this sport into the next alpine skiing or golf. See what happens when we don’t take life literally? It actually begins to make more sense. Rant over. You’re welcome. All hail satan.
  • 8 1
 @onawalk: First, there is a big difference between explaining a sexual term to my daughter’s vs having that word on a bike a ride. I don't need to paste vulgar words all over my house so my daughters can learn about them. I teach them about sex, I don't normalize it. They are just kids. They are not required to know what a Dirty Sanchez is to be a productive adult. You are completely out of line questioning my parenting and taking such huge assumptions just because I don't want a vulgar name on my bike.

Why is everyone making such huge assumptions just because I don't want edgy names on my bikes? You are literally questioning if I am fit to be a father. Who the hell are you? You don't know me, and you don't know anything about me. All I said was I don't want to ride a bike with the word Evil on it and everyone is losing their shit.

I am 48. I met my wife in 1996. I was 19. Her younger brother was 13 at the time. He started calling me pdiddy not long after we were dating. The nick name spread to a few close friends that still call me that to this day. I don't know when Sean started calling himself that, but I know it was later because we thought it was hilarious. You can believe what you want. You want to call me out as a hypocrite. That is why you care so much about my nick name. I can tell you I am a hypocrite. I don’t lead a perfect life. I’m no better than any of you.

I am still not sure what all the aggression is about in this comment section. So, I don't like the name Evil, or wouldn't want a bike named after a sexual innuendo. I think the innuendo names from cove are funny. I was laughing when I was reading the names. I have a sense of humor about it. I still don't want it on my bike. It’s like this, I may laugh at a dirty joke, I don't go home a tell my daughters it.

I get that the name Evil is to be edgy. I don't think the owners are some satan worshipers or the people that ride them are either. I don't scream "Sinner!" as one rides by me. I have a friend that owns one. we've ridden together. He is a great guy, certainly not evil. I just don't want one for myself. That's it.
  • 2 0
 deleted
  • 2 3
 @PtDiddy: Chill. You post a comment, people respond to it. If you don't want that, don't comment. As for assumptions, the bike brand is called Evil, you associate it with, and I quote "sex trafficking, child molestation, murder, abuse, sexual assault" which historically is more closely linked to organized religion than the polar opposite they label as "evil". It is a major (if not the main) catalyst for the counterculture.

Evil is just a bike brand name, you carry such a mess to the table, that's calling for trouble.
  • 5 1
 @vinay: Nah. F that. That dude made assertions and questioned his fatherhood. That crossed the line. @PtDiddy had every right to say what he said.
  • 2 1
 @TheR: Thank you. I really appreciate that.
  • 2 3
 @TheR: Why so? @onawalk (which I think he was responding to) merely gave him and advice based on a trust that he'd be the best to guide and inform his daughters. See, society has somehow developed quite a messed up image of sexuality. What's in the spotlight isn't necessarily what's good and what's good may rarely be talked about or shown. It can be confusing for a kid to navigate, what's ok and perfectly healthy to explore, where to say no? @Onawalk didn't seem to intend to have these frame model names shoved up these kids' noses or the dirty jokes @PtDiddy laughs about, just discuss with your kids what they're being exposed to and put it in context. If home isn't the safe place for kids to ask and discuss these subjects then what is? The internet?
  • 3 0
 @vinay: Onawalk offered insulting, presumptuous, and unsolicited advice about parenting to a man he doesn’t know and suggested that man shouldn’t have had kids. Straight from the files of “Who the F are you?” Some people have gotten too comfortable saying things behind a screen that that they would never say in real life.
  • 2 0
 @PtDiddy: Yeah man, of course. It’s like crazy town around here.
  • 1 0
 @Legohead: Me, my wife, my son, and about 5 others riders I personally know of, must be "no ones".
  • 2 2
 God you people have zero sense of humor
  • 1 0
 @scary1: there's a simpler explanation

Bwaha
  • 113 11
 Not surprising considering EVIL hasn't make any big updates to their line up. Felt like they fell out of focus for quite a long time.
  • 30 4
 Agree with that, I really like the branding etc but they do feel a little expensive and have lacked updates for some time.

Maybe like Orange people don’t want a single pivot anymore? …. Joke
  • 31 22
 They lose any customer who has to work on their bikes, that's for sure. what a pain in the ass in so many ways.
  • 3 0
 They redid the dirt jumper 2 yeasr ago
  • 4 0
 Stay tuned for the V4...
  • 8 4
 @hi-dr-nick: By your logic, Orange would have tons of customers. And you see what happened to them.
  • 56 10
 @justanotherusername:
The bikes are great. They didn’t follow the trend of super slack of long and the bikes are numbers are still relevant. They updated to allow UDH and Transmission.
As for working on them, it seems like a lot but it’s quite easy. Internal routing is tubed and easy, yes there are lots of little bolts but it’s slightly more time than hard.
I’ll gladly work on an Evil over a RM and Scott any day.
  • 13 12
 @hi-dr-nick: seriously.
Go work on a Scott or RM.
  • 20 4
 Have you owned one? Geometry and standards of their entire lineup are market-current. These are great bikes.
  • 20 8
 Cant update a bike when your sending out 3 warranties per bike sold... I tried selling my 4th but nobody wanted it for super cheap. they just kept breaking.
  • 16 2
 @ryeder1: As a longtime owner of the OG Wreckoning and an Offering V2, I agree. I've never had any issues with the frame, pivot bearings or hardware. Nothing. I've never seen one in my shop with any issues either. They're solid bikes all around and really fun to ride. Anyone that says they suck to work on hasn't dealt with RM nylon bushing pivot service or the overall nonsense of Twinloc on Scott bikes.
  • 41 0
 I worked at a company with multiple bike of the year awards across media outlets and praised for innovation over the last few years. Was still quietly laid off alongside 30% of the company in 3 of 4+ rounds of layoffs.

Its not lack of innovation, I'll say that much.
  • 5 2
 @4everkidd: No criticism but fascinated by your mention of, "Geometry and standards of their entire lineup are market-current." I would equate that to a company that is either resting on its laurels or even stale. I've ridden a few Evil bikes and while they're fine, they don't inspire beyond the norm and that just doesn't do it for me. Sadly, that actually represents many "current" Mtb brands.
  • 16 2
 @thetruejb: Norco has some serious problems internally and would rather layoff good employees than fire bearded useless f*cks that don't really have a job title...
  • 3 9
flag Azrocktester (Feb 17, 2024 at 13:25) (Below Threshold)
 @HeatedRotor: That why Jenson usa dropped Evil ...truly a POS !
  • 10 1
 @ryeder1: I think a lot of people look at the Delta link and think it's super complicated but most of the bolts in that area are just for the flip chip, not the linkage. I've had several people comment to me on my Following that "all those bearings must be horrible to deal with" not knowing that there aren't nearly as many as it looks like there are. It has the same number of bearings as most other bikes, and the one big pivot in the middle is easier to deal with than most of the virtual pivot bikes.
  • 8 1
 They updated the whole line up and launched an ebike in the last few years. They are a small brand that would rather sort out their current models than launch something new every six months. They do some solid bikes that are actually super up to date and easy to maintain. The problem is that the whole industry is in the gutter right now.
  • 32 2
 I think superboost was a mistake.
  • 4 4
 @cpobanz: THIS
  • 3 0
 bearings aren't a problem if you just never service or replace them... [modern problems meme]
  • 6 3
 @Sweatypants: true, but complaining about evils bearings meaning either you ride a hardtail or are completely blind/unable to count, a trek bike has 4 bearing more than any evil, nobody complains about it, and as of 2024 the only company you can get a bearing set for free is evil. and you won't need them every year
  • 6 0
 @nicoenduro: Santa Cruz offers free bearings as well.
  • 2 3
 @TheBearDen: nail on the head
  • 3 0
 @justanotherusername: I don’t think most people realize they are single pivot? With all the shock linkage and a fancy name, in my experience people think it’s a multi-link frame.
  • 2 0
 @stubs179: marketing is a very effective thing.
  • 4 0
 I've never seen any of their bikes in person. That tells you how much money they're making.
  • 2 0
 @cookiemonster615: haha me either and I live in Bellingham their headquarters
  • 2 3
 @Maslin02: nope. they offer free bearings for a maximum of 3 years, if you read carefully it's stated. while every evil purchased from 2023 onwards has a lifetime warranty on bearings up to a maximum of a set a year, which again will be way too much anyway.
  • 1 0
 @nicoenduro: "Lifetime Bearing Replacement
Santa Cruz Bicycles offers free replacement pivot bearings to the original owner for as long as they own their bike."
  • 1 1
 @Maslin02: oh cool
They changed it
That’s really good
  • 4 0
 Evil’s sins: 1) superboost 2) frame crack rep that they took care of previous gen but is now haunting them again (but my ov1 has been rock solid). Doesn’t help that the current gen cracked on a couple of popular YouTubers 3) insisting on 430 chainstays across the entire size range. 4) losing Mike Giese. Though that might not be evil’s fault. Somehow I suspect 1 and 2 are related. Maybe they should license out DELTA suspension.
  • 2 0
 @2xpensive: Delta is DW’s suspension license I thought?

You think anyone would want to license a single pivot with overly elaborate geometry adjustment now, it’s a pretty old system.
  • 1 0
 Agree with this...some say "a good bike is a good bike", "Why update something if it's good the way it is?". But the truth is whether it's needed functionally or not you do need something to keep it in the news feed and fresh in people's minds. Evil isn't like Trek or Specialized where even if you don't update a bike for 4-5 years your still going to get the walk-in and purchase crowd because they have TONS of retailers. Something like Evil you really need to go seek out your buyers and stay fresh.
  • 3 1
 @nicoenduro: Yeah...they changed it in 2015 when they went to lifetime warranty. Haha. You're spewing some highly outdated information.
  • 4 0
 @justanotherusername: I think DW sold DELTA or designed it exclusively for Evil? DELTA has its novelty “dual” leverage curve. I think it climbs well, takes bumps well, can push off nicely, and takes bigger hits well. I can’t say it’s better than others but it’s overall pretty well rounded. I mainly wish my evil had longer chainstays. I didn’t find the linkages to be too complicated to maintain.
  • 2 0
 @2xpensive: Bah, its just a single pivot with some slight rate changes, you can see the leverage curve here: www.pinkbike.com/news/cascade-components-announces-evil-offering-link.html

I am sure it works pretty well but I can't see any other brands wanting to pay for it when there are so many other systems available for free that achieve the same thing.
  • 1 0
 @Maslin02: if you are paying that much for something nothing better than other brands... It's the least they could f*cking do.
  • 8 0
 "EVIL hasn't make any big updates to their line up"

I don't understand the obsession so much of the MTB community has with "new" stuff. I think the significant performance gains of updating mountain bikes started to level out around 2020. Now, most innovation seems focused on shoving batteries into every possible bike component.

Evil has a fleet of bikes that:
- spans the range of short travel to long travel
- has mullet and full 29" options
- is UDH compatible
- utilizes Superboost
- offer a truly unique ride quality based on suspension kinematics

Not really sure what's missing from the "modern bike equation" other than their frame's not having a 500mm reach on a size medium. Since this is pinkbike, I also understand that a STA of less than 90º will not suffice. That being said, I love riding Evils because the geo feels modern without going totally bananas.
  • 1 1
 @TheBearDen: A GX build Offering is a full thousand dollars more than a 5010.

I guess you're paying for the "family atmosphere"


Should also be noted that a lifetime warranty is more likely the life of the company, not the bike. How's that warranty look for people that put down thousands on a new GG last year?
  • 5 0
 @Maslin02: Not really sure what you're looking at. GX Offering is currently $5600. GX 5010 is $5800. GX Offering comes with Ultimate RS parts and I9 wheels. GX 5010 comes with Select RS parts and RF AR wheels.
  • 3 1
 @Maslin02: even at retail ( both santa and evil ) you must take into consideration that:
5010 has worse everything, c frame, worse dropper, worse brakes, worse wheels, worse suspension,
a "GX" evil, whatever it is, comes with ultimate suspension, i9 wheels, code rsc brakes, bike yoke or one up droppers. most other brands offer pretty much garbage for nearly the same price on "GX buildkits", let alone the ones offering GX with some NX/SX components here and there, while evil is FULL gx
  • 1 0
 @vitaflo: I clicked on the 5010 with GX, must have been the wrong one. Build aside, the Evil frame is 3250 (on sale for 2000) and the 5010 frame is 3000. Can we agree they are a similar price? Arguing "value" on $6300 trail bikes with mechanical mid-level builds is a bit ridiculous at this point. At my LBS Santa Cruz is squarely middle of the price range.

Back to my point that "lifetime warranty" shouldn't be considered as the life of the company like many of these boutique brands.
  • 1 0
 @ryeder1: Rocky Mtn's are literally the easiest bikes to work on except for the eyelet bearings on the shock, which isn't even that hard.
  • 1 1
 @hi-dr-nick: cable routing is terrible. They have improved but they still suck. Not as bad as Scott but I just can’t stand them.
  • 4 1
 @ryeder1: cable routing on evil is terrible? are you high?
  • 3 0
 @nicoenduro: they are tubed all the way!
Doesn’t get any easier.
  • 93 6
 This idea of a company/corporation as family is misguided. There has been a lot written about it. For example: www.forbes.com/sites/deniselyohn/2019/11/05/stop-saying-your-company-is-like-a-family
  • 61 2
 Michael Scott disagrees.
  • 85 2
 When you work for someone, they are not your family. When someone works for you, they are not your family. Total nonsense. Its a business transaction. Never forget that, young ones.
  • 45 2
 I honestly feel bad for anyone who believes management when they say "we are a family." Your coworkers and management are not your friends. when you're not needed they won't hesitate to let you go and your "friends" are talking sh*t about you and will throw you under the bus. I mind my own business, don't spread gossip and understand my company is not my family.
  • 13 2
 Lol I guess it depends what your family is like...
  • 64 0
 I certainly have family I wish I could layoff.
  • 14 0
 @ThunderChunk: Sadly for a lot of folks their job is their only family/friends. Some of my co-workers... their entire life is their job. And these folks incessantly gossip about other folks and act like it's a big deal if you don't show up to company social events. Personally I avoid all non-work socialization at work. My job is my job and I want it to be as professional as possible.
  • 12 0
 > Never place friendship above profit.

Rule of Acquisition #21
  • 9 0
 @LesZedCB: # 6. Never allow family to stand in the way of opportunity.
  • 52 19
 @ThunderChunk: Disagree. MANAGEMENT is not your friend (or family).

Your coworkers absolutely can be.

UNIONIZE.
  • 33 0
 "Family, Religion, Friendship. These are the 3 demons you must slay if you wish to succeed in business."

- C. Montgomery Burns
  • 8 0
 No, no, no, when Evil says “family” they actually mean “cult” or “cult-family.” There’s no comparison to the popular notion of “family.” When they “eat together,” they mean live chickens and stuff, and sometimes each other (the easiest form of lay-off).
  • 9 2
 Not all companies are the same and not all employees are viewed the same by management. That said, it doesn't mean a manager/owner/CEO can't look at people like family who they have become very close with over the years. Is it family by blood? No, of course not.

But, as someone who as only worked for small companies thus far in my life, I can certainly say with confidence that there are plenty of people within small independently owned companies (inside the industry and outside as well) who have a family outlook on the people they employ. Not to be taken as gospel, but not to be forgotten either. I would HATE to be in a position to have to lay people off of a small close-knit team.
  • 4 1
 @totaltoads: too many workplaces are like this nowadays. They never directly say it, but you get outcast for wanting to spend time with your real family, friends, bike, etc. I work for a cult like this and it’s exhausting. No one has a life outside of work.
  • 3 0
 @Speeder01: haha right? like all the laid off people are still going to be hanging around the office and coming over for bbqs ....gtfo.
  • 3 4
 @totaltoads: it must be fun to work with you
  • 2 1
 I've had many jobs where the management genuinely cared about their employees, went well above their contract to support them in times of need, often at times where that individual's actual family wouldn't. If you aren't valued, why are you there?
  • 6 8
 @charliewentoutside: Not really related and not trying to start a union discussion, but...I had plenty of "union friends and family" that needed a punch in the face and were not actually people I'd ever have as friends because they coasted on the backs of their other "union friends and family".

Don't get me wrong, there's times and places for unions, but know that some workers are just passengers on the boats the rising tide is floating. Especially in a governmental context. The ideal of unionization tends to not turn out that way in real life these days.
  • 4 1
 @iammarkstewart: Unionized or not, pretty much every workplace has some people that suck at their jobs and should have been shitcanned years ago. The difference is in what happens when the crap employee is in upper management.
  • 4 2
 @nnowak: I was just trying to say that the general statement "UNIONIZE!" doesn't necessarily solve the "friends and family" conundrum (as @charliewentoutside was addressing), or prevent job loss or fix bad management.

At any rate, I'm probably being pedantic. Hopefully the affected employees can get sorted sooner than later, wishing them good luck.
  • 6 1
 @charliewentoutside: not in my experience. I'm 36 and have been working since I was 14. See how loyal your friends are if you ever work for a company that slows down and has to either lay people off or reduce hours. Your "friends" are going to compete with you to keep their job or get as many hours as possible while you sit at home or get laid off. If theres a promotion available, you think they are going to help you or throw you under the bus? I have guys at work I get along with, we hang out outside of work. But as long as we are working at the same company I understand I can never trust them.
  • 1 0
 It's yes and no to this. Company size, ownership, public/private, etc. can all play in to how much "family" can really be called out. I work for a massive corporation (Forbes 30ish) and it all comes down to what management level is making the decision for any given layoff scenario. If it's a big action taking out whole swaths of the company then you're screwed and there's no "family". But often times its percentages and actually gets to directors/managers and you definitely can have people that you know like "family" for many years that will protect you if you are a good worker and trusted, etc. Same with large outsourcing actions. You could call it favortism or "back room deals" but that often time is no more than friends looking out for friends or "family" if one of them is in a position to impact who gets let go or outsourced.
  • 2 0
 Hmm, I've worked at a few companies where it did feel more like family than coworkers. We worked together, partied together, bickered, etc. etc. But it didn't stop the inevitable layoffs when we got too big. It caused a few more tears to be shed (by both those doing the laying off and those being laid off) but it didn't stop them from happening.

That said, just because the business has to make business decisions at times it doesn't negate the rest. Family does messed up things to eachother sometimes too.
  • 135 70
 Weird, the people on TV said this was the strongest economy ever.
  • 144 27
 Was he orange with small hands or very old and doesn’t know his name? I’d hazard a guess that they both could be wrong
  • 19 6
 Don’t start the it’s global warming vs it’s just a warm day argument.
  • 24 5
 Did they specifically mention the bike industry?
  • 29 17
 $34 Trillion in gross federal debt. Debt is necessary but this number is astronomical.
  • 227 5
 The Bike Industry is super painful atm. As somebody who works in the industry I can provide a little insight.

A combination of genuinely high demand for a couple of years combined with over-optimism about the future of cycling and over-reporting of demand by western brands lead to huge over-ordering. During the bike-boom brands committed to huge order quantities for the next several years in order to encourage factories to open new lines and increase production capacity to help the brands meet the high demand. Once that tap was switched on it couldn't easily be switched off once the demand started to fall. Factories had built new units, opened new lines and trained new employees to meet the demand and the brands had committed to help the factories pay for those new lines with sufficient orders.

Bike industry employees are a positive bunch who love cycling and want to see more people cycling - so they tend to be optimistic about getting more people out on bikes and tend to believe people will stick with it, rather than buying a bike, riding it twice and then leaving it in the garage to rot (which is actually what happens a lot of the time). There was all this talk of the "new normal" and people were going to be working from home more, travel less and have more leisure time. The unfortunate truth is that once people could travel again and bars and restaurants re-opened tonnes of people lost interest in cycling.

The fall off in demand was sharp, the production couldn't be switched off and now there is a massive oversupply of bikes.

What is making this particularly painful for the industry is not that the numbers are SO much lower than pre-pandemic (they are lower, but not by a huge amount) it's that the stock is crippling their cash flow and prices are being depressed super hard as other companies discount - so they're selling a pre-pandemic amount but with terrible profit margin - so tonnes of companies are making a loss even if the sales volume is reasonable.

In the UK Wiggle/CRC have gone under. 2pure, MooreLarge, Raleigh, Hotlines and Cannondale have either closed or made considerable changes to their business (cut back their operations considerably). Trek are closing their UK warehouse. Orange went into administration but luckily came back out. Tonnes of other brands and distributors are struggling.

It seems to be fashionable currently to be a cynic about the bike industry - people question where all these profits from the pandemic went and how people could be so stupid to commit to such large quantities. There is also a lot of accusations of greed and unnecessary price increases.

All I can say is that I think pretty much every brand would have preferred steady years to this huge boom and bust cycle. It's hard to make money in the cycling industry at the best of times and the only company in the bike industry I would buy stocks in is probably Shimano. I don't think there's any bike companies outperforming the S&P 500 at any time.
  • 28 4
 TV lies... A lot.. numbers don't
  • 11 1
 @tom666: good post again - out of interest do you sell bikes or components.

I have a couple of friends who are involved in the component side as we have made some small bits for them occasionally and they haven’t seem to have dropped off as much as the full bike sales have.

I suppose many have bought new bikes over covid or are buying them for huge discounts at CRC / other sales if they are buying now, I doubt many pre orders are in right now.
  • 36 0
 @tom666: For MTB specifically, there is also the issue that the sport is maturing and technological progress is slowing down. Means fewer reasons to replace older bikes. The market saturation caused by the Covid boom will take quite a while to dissipate.
  • 8 0
 @f*cktoryteam: Of course they do. "Lies, damned lies and...statistics."
  • 30 0
 Blaming the woes of the entire bike industry on the US economy is forgetting that lots and lots and lots of people bought bikes over Covid, and now that bubble is bursting. Not to mention the US isn’t the only place that mountain bikes.
  • 37 3
 @tom666: Then add to that the increases in food prices, housing, property tax adjustments. It leaves little left over for recreational purchases.
  • 8 2
 @tom666: just a normal cyclus after the boom and its unnormaly overcapacities. The market will stabilize in two years and the margins as well.
  • 21 3
 @Ttimer: Yes definitely and also a shift to EMTB - a lot of the guys in their 40s and 50s+ that were buying expensive MTBs are now buying EMTBs, so a lot of brands that are analog-only are seeing their market for high-end MTBs shrink. If you don't have a good EMTB offering you're not selling the high-ticket price bikes in much volume.

@justanotherusername Bikes mostly

@chriskneeland Yes definitely. The reduced spending power is a big factor.
  • 6 4
 @Monkeyass: Joe died his hair?!
  • 4 5
 @kosmowf: dead hair, huh?
  • 1 0
 @Monkeyass: ugh, it’s a damn hot mess and entirely embarrassing!
  • 18 1
 @tom666: great stuff, interesting read! 1000x better than all these puns keyboard bashers are trying to get upvotes for.
  • 1 0
 @f*cktoryteam: Thats unfortunate as evil laid of head numbercrucher and mad man Ian Fay.
  • 11 0
 @tom666: Thanks for taking the time to post this. Genuinely interesting and insightful. Take it easy mate.
  • 15 10
 Just because one industry is doing poorly doesn't mean the entire economy is in the crapper.
  • 40 0
 @tom666: the root of it all is hardly any of these companies actually MAKE the bikes anymore. The lag time between ordering and delivery is many, many months so the connection between supply and demand is broken. They wanted the high profit margins of manufacturing in Asia; they can live with the consequences too.
  • 1 2
 @Monkeyass: Don’t be jealous of our awesome leaders.
  • 13 7
 Tons of companies laying off. Most of the jobs getting cut are higher paying jobs. Also, credit card debt and 401K withdrawals are at an all time high not seen since financial collapse. US household costs have gone up tremendously. Not signs of a strong economy.
  • 6 27
flag CYCOlogist818 (Feb 17, 2024 at 8:16) (Below Threshold)
 @tom666: In my area, the only MTBs anyone buys and rides are E. Maybe it’s time for the MTB industry to go full focus on that? Most of the shops where I live only carry eMTBs (on the mountain bike side) because no one is buying analog mountain bikes.
  • 3 0
 @PtDiddy: I genuinely think you do better
  • 10 1
 @tom666: the emtbs sales is a big factor. The largest bike shop near me said they mostly sell emtbs now. The shop is easily over 50% emtbs on display. I’m 48 and everyone I ride with has one.

I love buying new bikes and bike parts. I’m just not in a financial position to buy the expensive stuff. For a new bike I usually look at Marin bikes or used bikes. I buy used components probably 90% of the time. So, I don’t think I help the industry stay afloat much.

I would like to see more brands like Marin, modern geo, smart specs, and good pricing. Specialized comes close with the Status. It’s I nice build for the price.

I may not be in the majority. I still see a lot of expensive bikes on the trails.
  • 4 1
 @Monkeyass: I meet people everyday that I think would be better leaders. It’s a clown show over here.
  • 1 0
 @Steadite: Fair point, but that doesn't explain what happened to GG.
  • 6 11
flag topfuel564 (Feb 17, 2024 at 8:53) (Below Threshold)
 @tacklingdummy: No soft landing: The US economy is going to fall into recession in the middle of 2024, Citi's chief economist says
  • 12 0
 @tom666: 100%

I used to chat up the employees at my local bike park during the pandemic boom... they were 120% convinced this was the 'new normal'. All these were going to be lifer-long MTBers now. Everyday would have lift lines, they would expand hours to meet demand, etc. When I went to the park in '23... lift lines were basically non existent, and hours were cut back to 4 days a week from 7. Everyone on craigslist is selling their 2-3 year old 5K+ bike 5K for under 2K now so they can pay for plane tickets or new cars. I bought my newphew at 2021 Ripley AF with full SLX and non-stock upgrades for 1500 a few months ago. Bike was barely used, guy was desperate to sell and had listed it at 2000.

Hell, I bought two bikes this year for 5K. The MSRP on them should have been 9.5K. Lots of my friends are buying '23 bikes at 50-70% off now, even steeper discounts that I had.
  • 1 0
 @f*cktoryteam: depends who presents the numbers!
  • 10 4
 @CYCOlogist818: Where I live emtb is for the 50+ crowd, anyone under 50 is still analog bikes only. All the new people I am meeting in their 20s/30s are riding $1500 hardtails and $2500 dual suspensions.
  • 4 0
 @totaltoads: interesting. Definitely not like that where I am.
  • 3 0
 Who's watching TV when there are bikes to be ridden, trails to be built, and pinkbike when you're bored at work?
  • 5 1
 @topfuel564: but they said that about mid 2023 as well
  • 2 1
 @totaltoads: By that I mean, eMTBs seem to the sth standard for all age groups. Then again, in my area e-bikes outnumber analog bike period. Mountain or otherwise. Especially in the beach areas.
  • 3 2
 @tom666: It makes me worry for some of our local bike manufacturers like Alchemy in Golden Colorado, I hope they weather the storm.
  • 2 2
 @VelkePivo: numbers don't lie. But liers use numbers.
  • 12 1
 @tom666: Some truths in there... but you have chosen to ignore the fact that pricing has been climbing at an unsustainable rate and perhaps consumers have grown tired of these trends and decided they don't really need to part with so much cash in order to still have fun mountain biking... coupled with the increasing cost of living. I can't say that I'm surprised or unhappy that a little bit of price correction is on the way.
  • 5 28
flag ThatEbikeGuy (Feb 17, 2024 at 9:41) (Below Threshold)
 @CYCOlogist818: Whyte have pretty much done that. Dropped virtually all motorless bikes from their range to concentrate on ebikes. Obviously being a manufacturer, they know what is selling.
No-one wants a long travel motorless bike these days. No-one. Specialist bikes like DH, xc or kids bikes will still sell though.
  • 10 21
flag CYCOlogist818 (Feb 17, 2024 at 9:56) (Below Threshold)
 @ThatEbikeGuy: Yup. It’s comical how so many commentators on PB express anger and resentment whenever there’s a review about an eMTB, but the fact is that’s where the sport is heading.
  • 5 15
flag CYCOlogist818 (Feb 17, 2024 at 9:57) (Below Threshold)
 @ThatEbikeGuy: All the kids in my neighborhood rise e-bikes. Analog bikes is unfashionable to the .
  • 26 0
 @tom666: to be clear, that surge in demand was not a bike-industry phenomenon. Time and liquidity were at an all-time high for the consumer and that was seen across all industries. But small brands (like the bike industry) that can’t/don’t staff a forecaster got carried away in the good times. I made the move from being an academic economist to an industry economist for a big portfolio of outdoor brands in early 2022. The first thing we did was remind everyone this was not the new normal, and to plan inventory for summer 2023 as if the pandemic boom never happened. It’s not fun to be disciplined during the good times, but we’re sitting on 100 days of inventory at the moment instead of 700. No disrespect to the marketing depts out there, but businesses who want to stick around have to invest more in wet blankets and less in cheerleaders.
  • 13 14
 @topfuel564: They've been saying that for three goddamn years and it's all been lies. I've been sitting here with cash in saving accounts waiting for the crash so I can buy low, but the crash never happens. Damn Democrats keeping the economy propped up. Let the free market kill itself again already.
  • 15 15
 Tbf, the economy is excellent for the rich right now. Bidenomics is working as intended. For normal working class people things are terrible though. I get the feeling people aren't very happy with the current leadership we have.
  • 1 2
 @singelton: ^this^
  • 31 2
 Amazed with all the upvotes on my original post. I will reply to a few people:

@Steadite: You're right that supply chains would be more robust if there was more domestic manufacturing and if more of the brands manufactured in house.

However, to manufacture bikes domestically at a good price you need an excellent (and cheap) local tubing supplier, local spoke maker, local tyre manufacturer, components manufacturers etc. This is why pretty much all the world's bike manufacture is concentrated in a few cities (Taichung, Tianjin, Ho Chi Minh City etc). If you manufacture frames domestically but still have to order all the parts from Taiwan/China that doesn't strengthen your supply chain at all - that makes you similar to Orange Bikes or GG who have suffered tremendously. To get bike manufacture back to Europe or the USA and have strong supply chains you need to build out an entire supply chain from forging companies to tubing companies to component manufacturers. You will often find the forging and tubing suppliers that make the metal parts for bicycles derive their primary income from making forgings/tubes for cars or motorcycles. Industry on this kind of scale doesn't just pop up and there's a reason so much of that business moved away from Europe and the USA in the first place. I'm sure you can see how a single US or UK bike brand can't just decide to start making price-competitive bikes domestically and also that the move to Asia was mostly a necessity - the necessary suppliers to run a bicycle business either don't exist or aren't price-competitive.

@Marvintheandroid: I agree the cost of bicycles has gotten super high and that the majority of brands are leaving customers behind. The majority of people want to pay £2-4k for a full sus MTB and so many bikes don't even start until north of £4k now. However, that isn't the brands fault generally, their cost prices are too high from the suppliers (their prices from Fox, Shimano, SRAM etc don't allow them to sell cheaper) and the cost of running a bike business is high. If it was possible to sustainably produce awesome bikes at a lower price point people would do it. Some are trying via D2C models e.g. Canyon and YT - but inevitably service suffers when you cut out stores. I have a lot of opinions about this, but it's definitely unfair on the brands to accuse them of greed - they are genuinely all making losses currently and this "correction" isn't sustainable and we will see a lot more companies go out of business if this continues.

I'm sure similarly you feel the price of new cars is too high, but if it was possible to make a great brand-new quality car and sell it for £20k somebody would be doing it.

@Hayek: Congrats on making such a good call and your company only sitting on 100 days of stock rather than 700. That's great. And yes, the bike industry did suffer from not having enough wet-blankets in the room calming everybody down and tempering expectations. The danger in the bike industry (and I'm sure it's similar in your industry) is that if you were measured and didn't increase your order volume you missed out on tonnes of great full price sales. Then as the market crashes, even if your stock level is healthy, everybody else is overstocked - so they're all selling their bikes 20-40% off and that impacts your ability to sell anything at full price. So you miss the good times and you still have to drop your prices in the bad times. Hard to sell your bikes full price when the store down the road has a 30% sale on. So even companies who were sensible still get shafted and may still have to make redundancies etc.
  • 3 4
 @Ih8Hondas: LOL keep blaming everyone else - that’s a great solution
  • 2 5
 @DylanH93: so then work harder
  • 22 21
 @DylanH93: If it comes down to another Biden/Trump ticket, I’ll again vote for Biden.
  • 4 6
 @Law-MTB: The Downvoters have never looked at the national debt clock i bet; nor compared it to previous presidents time in office either.
  • 11 9
 Talking Heads....now go get your booster
  • 5 3
 @CYCOlogist818: Its the opposite where I am - ebikes are seen as unfashionable because you only see old folks on them.
  • 7 0
 @CYCOlogist818: agree, but makes me sad that these are our choices, both so old and out of touch
  • 10 14
flag DylanH93 FL (Feb 17, 2024 at 12:17) (Below Threshold)
 @CYCOlogist818: I can't bring myself to vote for him again, things have simply gone way too off the rail. Most likely going third party for the first time. I'm betting third party voters are about to explode this election.
  • 2 10
flag cuban-b (Feb 17, 2024 at 12:19) (Below Threshold)
 @DylanH93: RFK2 FTW! He’s out of his mind - can you imagine the entertainment value?!
  • 4 5
 @cuban-b: sadly he's been out of his mind for a while and is having trouble even speaking these days. I worry how much worse things could get under his leadership. Desperate times call for desperate measures lol!
  • 4 0
 @tom666: Slow Clap> Nailed it. What I find especially telling was Trek was lauded for their market insight due to having access to register action from their dealers early in the pandemic. What was strange to me was that they didn't also have the foresight to plan for that register action to slow as demand was sure to ebb as it became satiated and sales slowed. They weren't the only company to miss that anticipation as shown here and elsewhere.
  • 6 0
 @tom666: what's really going on and nobody is talking about is all the loans these small and bike manufacturers took out . They barely can pay the loans back , and their bleeding out and can't stop the loss.
  • 1 1
 @Azrocktester: got some evidence to backup the claim?
  • 2 0
 @tom666 : "So you miss the good times and you still have to drop your prices in the bad times."
You are forgetting a positive cash flow. If you don't have it, you end up as the bike industry right now.
  • 2 1
 @cashew: care to explain that one?
  • 1 0
 @tom666: I'm honestly very surprised we haven't seen a second/third wave of fire sales. We saw some decent deals mid 2023, then a lot of fire sales around November/December, really hasn't been much lately.
  • 3 5
 @justanotherusername: I work in the industry clown !
  • 4 2
 @Azrocktester: where ‘in the industry’ do you work that you know it’s entire loan status?
I’m more jester than clown sweetie xx
  • 1 7
flag cuban-b (Feb 17, 2024 at 14:15) (Below Threshold)
 @DylanH93: but it seems so reasonable to support a campaign based on stopping the baby blood harvesting devil worshippers. I’m just glad these people exist. Makes my professional life much easier - less competition for the sane.
  • 4 0
 @cuban-b: dude what are you talking about lol?
  • 5 1
 Lmao we've been in a recession since 2021. The bottom hasn't dropped out yet but it's clearly coming.
  • 2 0
 @Ih8Hondas: lol, notice there's (almost) no Republican in Congress or the Senate that's ever met a spending bill they don't like....

Omnibus bills should've been specifically prohibited along with Congress delegating their authority in the Constitution.
  • 2 0
 @justanotherusername: buying inventory that does not sell "otherwise you miss the good times" means your money is in that inventory (that's the place the bike industry is right now) and you probably won't be able to pay for staff, research & development, etc.
That's the reason why the only good choice during the covid bubble was to be conservative with the forecast, as @Hayek said.
  • 3 1
 @totaltoads: the trend in Europe is quite clear...stats from Germany in 2022... Fast eine Million Mountainbikes (931.600 Stück) wurden in 2022 verkauft, davon 836.000 als E-Mountainbikes (Anteil rund 90 Prozent)....I got downvoted in a different article for writing that noone buys normal bikes anymore but these are just clear numbers...even I bought an almost new used 2023 Fuel Ex 9.9 frame on ebay from Germany for just 1600 € since the guy switched to Exe and couldn't sell it in the Bikemarkt...
  • 11 4
 @Ih8Hondas: the democrats haven't done anything to help the economy. Just look at the interest rates.
  • 6 3
 @CYCOlogist818: seriously.. open your eyes.
  • 3 0
 @cashew: I agree btw regarding cash flow and that's why I was congratulating the guy on doing a great forecast and saving his company a lot of pain, but what I'm saying is that even if you do forecast well you still get negatively impacted by the wider market and you may still have to make lay offs.
  • 2 0
 @cashew: Tom again with a good reply to your post.

Good planning as he says would ultimately have resulted in a reduction in overstock but as Tom says the end result is still competing against fire sale product regardless.

I’m not convinced evil are actually carrying such a crazy amount of stock either - cash flow is ultimately irrelevant if you have taken on staff to match a demand 2 years ago that no longer exists, the end result is the same unless you pay people to sit and twiddle thumbs.
  • 2 1
 @CYCOlogist818: You really are a loon. Living in an alternate reality.
  • 1 0
 @bchampig: But in a good way. SPORTS!!!
  • 3 6
 @katko: So many in denial. eMTBs are now the standard.
  • 1 0
 @totaltoads: which manufacturer is offering 70% off?
  • 3 2
 @DylanH93:As the saying goes, a third party vote is a vote for Trump. Even is we have higher 3rd party voter turnouts. Perhaps it's just time we have to face and accept our doom.
  • 1 0
 @BeerGuzlinFool: Open my eyes to what lol?
  • 3 2
 @totaltoads: Almost all high school aged kids in my area are on e-bikes. Not an iota of interest in regular bikes.
  • 3 0
 @ThatEbikeGuy: hi! I just bought a 170mm travel bike without a motor this morning. Most places (near me at least) where one would want/need a long travel bike don’t allow e-bikes.
  • 11 1
 @BeerGuzlinFool: The fed is not a political position. Interest rates were raised to control inflation, and that largely worked. If you wanna point a finger at something, look towards the monopolies that are profiteering from artificial price hikes with impunity.
  • 3 1
 @tom666: the supply chain term for this is Bullwhip Effect.

Also, mountain bikes are quasi luxury items bought mostly by people who can barely afford them. Only an idiot would think the good times were gonna roll forever.....
  • 1 0
 @greenblur: you ignored most of his posts, didn’t you? Derp
  • 8 18
flag tacklingdummy (Feb 18, 2024 at 8:14) (Below Threshold)
 @hexonjuan: The prices were increased because Biden/Democrats' economic and energy policies raised the business costs dramatically on companies. Companies always pass the increased costs onto consumers to protect their businesses. The Fed generally just follows the current administration's orders because they really like their jobs and don't want to get replaced.
  • 4 1
 @CYCOlogist818:

E-bikes are what’s selling, because they’re bringing in new demographics to the buying market. Everyone else Already has a good mountain bike that they’re riding. That’s not the same thing as claiming they’re the new standard. In my area, most ebikers are too old to ride a mountain bike, or too out of shape, or have some medical issues.

Someday I will need an e-bike, until then, I will ride my bikes as much as possible.
  • 2 0
 @tom666: Great post and thanks for taking the time to lay out these facts in detail. I recently exited the bike industry - for the third time LOL - and I can attest to the truth in your post. This is gonna be a rough year for a number of brands.
  • 2 1
 @Saidrick: Where I live, all age groups ride e-bikes. Not just older/out of shape /medical issues folks. And they still outnumber standard bikes.
  • 8 2
 @BeerGuzlinFool: I agree with your comment that "the democrats haven't done anything to help the economy."
  • 2 7
flag cuban-b (Feb 18, 2024 at 14:53) (Below Threshold)
 @tacklingdummy: LOL literally nobody cares about what you think hahahahaha
  • 1 1
 @RusMan: oh I'm well aware. I
  • 3 3
 @BeerGuzlinFool: They've kept it from crashing like all of these supposed economists and bankers have been saying is going to happen any second for years now.
  • 3 0
 @DylanH93: The economy is always excellent for the rich. Especially when the elephants are in office.
  • 2 1
 @cuban-b: So, how are those economic and energy policies working out in the UK? Pretty much same policies as the US. Cost of living has skyrocketed in the UK and the UK is in a recession. The liberal leaning The Guardian News has an entire section on the "UK Cost of Living Crisis."

www.theguardian.com/business/cost-of-living-crisis
  • 4 1
 @hexonjuan: lol. Think again. If you don't to think the fed falls in line with the administration in charge then you haven't been paying attention.
  • 2 1
 @Ih8Hondas: lol. You really believe that. Exactly what have they done.please explain.
  • 1 4
 @BeerGuzlinFool: Username checks out
  • 4 2
 @chriskneeland: I can be 12 beers in and still make more sense than our current POTUS. And I'm not drinking lite beer.
  • 3 3
 @BeerGuzlinFool: Bro, you clearly don't understand monetary policy. If you think Biden's responsible for interest rates and inflation, and not all the money printed under Trump to fund stimulus measures like the CARES Act, then you really should just stick to drinking.
  • 2 2
 @chriskneeland: how about you stop looking at 1 side of the coin.. maybe a good dose of alcohol would clear some of those cobwebs out of your brain.
  • 3 2
 @BeerGuzlinFool: There's only one reality guy. No matter how many beers you guzzle you can't escape it.
  • 4 3
 @chriskneeland: The CARES act (March 2020) was necessary because of the lockdowns and just brought the economy back to be more normal. Inflation was kept low for nearly a year after 2.2 CARES act. Yet, Biden administration spent 6.8 trillion in 2021 alone (nit including 5.5 trillion tax revenue).That monetary spending and energy policies is what skyrocketed inflation.
  • 3 4
 @tacklingdummy: Oooh, so what happened under Trump was "necessary", but as soon as Biden hits office, it's all just wasteful spending. Isn't that convenient.
  • 4 3
 @chriskneeland: Remember, Trump left it up to the states to determine their own COVID lockdown policies. Democrat states had the most severe lockdowns with the highest job losses, highest business losses, and highest unemployment. Since the COVID lockdowns torched the economy, the CARES act was needed to stabilize the economy. The economy was stabilized for nearly a year. Inflation was low, supply chains were better, and the economy was fine. The 6.8 Trillion monetary spending in 2021 just created skyrocketed inflation.

Forget Trump and Biden. I still can't see how people believe the economy is better now (2021-2024) than is was in 2017-2021 minus the pandemic because the pandemic would have torched the economy no matter who was in office.
  • 3 2
 @tacklingdummy: And what about the death rates in republican states? It was 3 times higher. Is that any way to deal with life? Inflation was a consequence of reduced capacities during Covid. The whole world was affected by it.

You will benefit from Bide's investments in infrastructure and the energy transition for a very long time to come, which is what we Germans are currently lacking.
  • 4 0
 @dh-corn: we are going to suffer from Biden policies for a long time. The border crisis is going to cost this country billions. His energy policies are costing us now. Biden has done more harm to this country than most people realize.
  • 2 4
 @BeerGuzlinFool: You mean the Biden policies that just saw 3.5% economic growth while getting inflation down to 2%? I fn hope so.
  • 2 2
 @tacklingdummy: Bro, of course the economy is going to feel better when they're cutting taxes and pumping free money into everyone's pocket. But that's what caused this f*cking mess.
  • 2 3
 @dh-corn: The death rates has more to do with the health and behavior of the populations in those states not the lockdown policies nor the political party.

Biden's investments into infrastructure and energy has not seen any improvement. One example, in 2021, 7.5 billion was allocated to build tens of thousands of EV charges. Not one has been built since the Politico article posted Dec 2023.

Not sure why EV advocates really think that EVs will take over ICE cars. It is really not possible because there are so many logistical problems with EV cars. There are not enough EV charges for the entire populations especially in dense cities where many live in apartment/condos and park their cars on the street or parking lots. People who think that EV chargers can be installed everywhere are just ignorant of the construction process of how EV chargers are built. They are extremely difficult to install on the streets/parking lots and extremely expensive.


www.politico.com/news/2023/12/05/congress-ev-chargers-billions-00129996#:~:text=Congress%20provided%20%247.5B%20for,reelection%20messaging%20promoting%20electric%20vehicles.
  • 3 0
 @chriskneeland: Biden pumped way more free money into the economy than Trump. Like I said, 6.8 trillion in just 2021. Fiscal spending causes inflation. Economics 101.

Biden never got the inflation down to 2%. 2% is the Fed's target for inflation that has not been met. Biden got inflation down to 3%, but the damage has already been done. The prices for essential goods got inflated way too high.
  • 1 4
 @tacklingdummy: But Biden didn't do it when fed and interest rates were historically low, hence why inflation is now 2%.
  • 3 2
 @BeerGuzlinFool: what border crisis? Is it a crisis? If you are honest, you will be supplied with millions of cheap laborers for whose work many locals are too bad -> house cleaning, kitchen helpers, etc. same as here.

In addition, the toughest border laws have now been offered but rejected because someone wants to make a profit from them. Apart from the suffering in Ukraine. Very few people really think about the people.
  • 2 2
 @tacklingdummy: In bad economic times, the state must invest - absolutely the right attitude. I can tell you a thing or two about what we're missing here right now. We need an infrastructure, education and science offensive...but here it's similar to the political power games being played at the expense of my generation.
  • 2 2
 @BeerGuzlinFool: You believe that oil and gas are endless right?
  • 3 0
 @chriskneeland: Inflation is not 2% right now. It is 3.1%.

Biden did pump 6.8 trillion into the economy in 2021 when interest rates were low. The Fed did not start increasing interest rates until inflation was high at the beginning of 2022.

Perhaps you should research some.
  • 3 0
 @dh-corn: Biden administration is not investing in the US. There has been no improvements in infrastructure or problems solved, only problems created. The border is also out of control and it is creating chaos in the US. They cannot find enough places or money to support all the migrants with housing, food, and any jobs right now. You live in Germany, you do not see what is really happening and just getting your views from heavily slanted and.filtered left leaning news outlets.
  • 1 2
 @tacklingdummy: CPI is 3.1%. Which isn't an accurate reflection of the population as a whole. HICP is 2%, which doesn't count things like housing. I've been locked into my mortgage for 13 years. So I saw no inflation of my house payment, as haven't everyone else who have owned homes in the last 5 years. So real inflation is 2%.
  • 1 2
 @tacklingdummy: And Biden did this IN CONCERT with the impending fed rate increases, which is how responsible monetary policy works. You can't prime the pump from both sides. The spending stimulus was offset by the reduced ability to leverage. Hence why inflation is has now gotten so low.
  • 2 1
 @chriskneeland: CPI is the benchmark for measuring inflation. Where is the HICP chart you are getting your 2%? Show me the data. Also, what does your fixed rate mortgage have to do with inflation?

Inflation rate being more normal right now doesn't matter. The damage was already done in 2022 with skyrocketing prices that have not gone down. Everything essential has gone up tremendously. It would take a decade or more of zero inflation for prices to be normal again.
  • 1 3
 @tacklingdummy: You can find the data everywhere. You have to know how to apply it analytically. Understanding the differences between CPI, HICP, and PCE would help. Again, just like I stated in my mortgage example, you can manipulate the data to seem weighted how every you want it without it actually applying to most people. But even if you wanted to use the 3.1% CPI, it's still miles better than the inflation engine that Trump put into motion.
  • 2 1
 @chriskneeland: You methods and formulations are not the benchmarks for the governments and private industry that measure inflation. Show me some articles/data where economists use those methods and they are used by government and private industry.
  • 1 2
 @tacklingdummy: Go look at economists Paul Krugman, Dean Baker, Joseph Stiglitz twitter feeds. It's literally discussed non-stop and full of links to sources published in real time every day. Krugman even went as far as to say that economists citing CPI instead of the more relative PCE is "professional malpractice".
  • 3 0
 @dh-corn: you have no idea what you are talking about. The border laws offered by democrats are not tough at all . I don't know where you get your information. But stop. Everything you stated is complete garbage.
  • 3 0
 @dh-corn: eventually power will move to alternative energy sources. Wind and solar are not the answers..right now. Nuclear power needs to be used along with other options. Putting restrictions on gas and oil is just foolish. Those sources are not endless but we will all be dead before it does run out.
  • 3 0
 @chriskneeland: you can state any numbers you want. In reality grocery prices are way higher now than 3 years ago 30 -40 percent higher. . Gas is double. Energy costs are up 15-20 percent and rising. Biden fvcked this country up. Period. I'm not saying Trump is the answer. But Biden is a complete disaster.
  • 2 1
 @tacklingdummy: wait wait wait… you think I take it personally what some idiot ona random website think of some country’s economic policy??? You have got to be pinkbike lamest and stupidest member!!! Hahahaha oh my god this is hilarious
  • 1 1
 @tacklingdummy: lolol keep responding I cannot wait to hear what you have to say next. You’ve gone bonkers, madly typing away arguing about socio economic policy on a bike website, and we all absolutely f*cking love the comedy! We want more!!!
  • 2 3
 @BeerGuzlinFool: There are global market dynamics at play. It's not hidden information. Blaming Biden for it is ignorant.
  • 3 0
 @BeerGuzlinFool: Exactly! And that's why we can leave the biggest possible mess when we die Smile Lets our kids deal with it Big Grin .
  • 2 1
 @tacklingdummy: Big Grin Left leaning news? And you watch Fox News? Or are you a member of the independent Truth Social network?
  • 3 1
 @dh-corn: right, whereas right leaning news is not curated or filtered at all, according to this idiot.
  • 4 1
 @chriskneeland: thinking his policies have had no affect is just stupid. Along with the rest if the liberal countries making stupid decisions.
  • 3 2
 @dh-corn: I don't have kids and I don't care about anyone else's. When I am dead the world can turn to ash as far as im concerned
  • 2 1
 @cuban-b: You are triggered by inconvenient facts and have none. Lmao. I think you need a head check.
  • 3 0
 @dh-corn: I rarely watch Fox News. If you look at my links for the facts I list, they are all on Left-Leaning news outlets. Your own left-leaning team is producing the inconvenient facts I am stating. Lol.
  • 2 1
 @tacklingdummy: dude you’re crazy. Seek help
  • 2 1
 @tacklingdummy: keep this going! I wanna hear more about domestic economic policy on pinkbike today Big Grin
  • 3 1
 @cuban-b: try reading it as an economist. i politely refuse to engage haha.
  • 1 1
 @Sweatypants: Well, you could have really set the record straight. It's not like you run into economists everyday just out on the streets.
  • 2 1
 @cuban-b: @chriskneeland I'm guessing you don't pay for anything or getting free money under Biden or don't pay taxes or work for an industry that is profiting greatly off of Biden/Democrats economy. Wink
  • 1 0
 @tacklingdummy: oh and one more thing - the election WAS stolen! Muahahaha suckers!
  • 1 1
 @tacklingdummy: I’m guessing you don’t really know how to take a hint - nobody likes you!
  • 1 2
 @tacklingdummy: And if we ever have another world wide pandemic again, then I again would support such lockdowns, despite the torched economy.
  • 1 0
 @cuban-b: I just like to hear your insults and rants now because you can't debate.
  • 5 0
 @CYCOlogist818: Lockdowns should not exist. If you are afraid or worried about COVID (aka the flu) then people can decide to lockdown themselves and stay at home. They should not have forced lockdowns for people are not worried about COVID. It is amazing how many people are pushing for governments to take away freedoms and choices. People escape communist countries to get away from governments that limit and take away their freedoms and choices.
  • 1 1
 @tacklingdummy: In this case, it's not about the freedom of the individual. For being so patriotic, you're pretty relaxed about the lives of your fellow countrymen. I admit that many measures were excessive, but there was no blueprint for the virus and its development.

Especially what freedom are you talking about? We have long since lost our freedom to the secret services, you even more than we have. Exactly what is common practice in communist countries.
  • 1 1
 @tacklingdummy: The left and right debate is nonsense for me personally, there are facts and right and wrong, measured against your own ethical compass. Many people just don't take facts very seriously anymore.
  • 1 1
 @tacklingdummy: what loser debates on pinkbike? Oh right, you lol
  • 1 1
 @dh-corn: I’m all for the “right” being around just enough for me to prosper. The more they’re distracted with culture wars and Hilary’s emails, the less competition we have in the civilized professional world. The fact that this random bike website is their battleground tells you everything you need to know hahahaha. Pinkbike = serious bizness!
  • 1 1
 @cuban-b: Curious. Where is the only "place" for discourse?
  • 1 0
 @chriskneeland: in my butt, of course. Everyone knows that!
  • 2 2
 @cuban-b: I mean, everybody assumed.
  • 4 1
 @dh-corn: If people were vaccinated, then they should not worry about getting COVID because they are protected, right? Then the "protected vaccinated" people should not be worried going about living their daily lives being around other people.

What freedoms? The freedoms and choices to go about your daily life (go to work, go to school, go to the store, go to restaurants, meet with family and friends, travel, etc, etc). The government chose what behavior was acceptable and not acceptable. The government also chose winners and losers in business by determining what businesses and jobs could function by determining what was "essential" or "non-essential". I think every job and business is essential to the people who need them to support themselves.
  • 2 2
 @tacklingdummy: honest question: what is your end game here? To convince mountain bikers around the world that you have a nuanced perspective to socio-political issues, and that we should all buy in? The world is waiting in anticipation for your response!!!
  • 2 0
 @cuban-b: Why do you care and keep commenting? Just ignore me and the debate just goes away. Lol. I am just discussing and debating the subjects that have negatively affected me greatly. It is just amusing to me that y'all just use insults to debate with me.
  • 2 0
 @CYCOlogist818: But can't tell me how I'm wrong.
  • 2 2
 @tacklingdummy: why do you care? I asked you first. Nobody wants to debate you, but you keep insisting this is the battleground when it’s not. Are you stupid or something?
  • 2 2
 @tacklingdummy: things that negatively affected you??? Oh so you’re telling us that you’re just a weak little man who can’t adapt to changes in society? Grow the f*ck up and grow a pair of balls for f*cks sake.
  • 1 0
 @cuban-b: Oh, okay. Whatever you say. I think you keep proving my point with your comments.
  • 63 7
 Don’t really get the relish, badmouthing and general shithousery in the comments. It was the same when Orange faced tough times. Shitty puns, armchair experts and all the usual hindsight industry “experts”. Jeeez…this is our passion, our industry, our friends and family, facing shit times and misery. How exactly is this a subject to take the piss out of, laugh at? The more I read in the comments the more I like my dog.
  • 13 2
 Yeah, the top comment is a pun. I’d like to join in the merrymaking, but people just had their lives upended. I’m not inclined to be a humorless scold, but there’s a time and place, and this ain’t it.
  • 13 2
 I'm with you here. This is a community of passionate people with a shared interest in a healthy industry to support our lifestyle. Why not keep the energy positive and shoot some good vibes out?

I'll pass on all the negativities.

I have a new Evil Insurgent waiting for me when I get home in April. From the short time I've had riding one, I have a lot of fun ahead of me. I am happy to buy into what they are trying to do up there in Bellingham, it is clear they are fueled by a passion for mountain biking and fun.
  • 4 5
 Well, while I do feel with the people losing their job, I think it is fair to point out that before the layoffs there usually is a chain of bad business decisions. And with the typical company sizes and hierarchies in the bike industry there is no pointing to some anonymous people at the top for that.

And in the case of Evil it seems to me a lot started with their customer support and warranty department leaving a surprising number of people unhappy - I don’t think they had this “this is our passion, our industry, our friends…” approach at that point.
  • 4 3
 That's PB comments for you. People going through real time suffering be damned.
  • 1 12
flag nastynate711 FL (Feb 18, 2024 at 7:12) (Below Threshold)
 @TheR: it’s just a job change, not a cancer diagnosis. They’ll find a new job if they’re motivated.
  • 7 1
 @nastynate711: alright Andrew Tate chill your incel tits.
  • 1 2
 @nastynate711: give them some of your cocktail fruit
  • 2 0
 @FuzzyL: I don't necessarily disagree with your second paragraph, but your first is inaccurate. I've been personally involved with 5 rounds of layoffs. Only 2 were realistically attributed to a company making bad business decisions. The other 3 were entirely due to outside forces. Sure, you could argue that leadership not having perfect foresight was at fault, but that seems unreasonable.
  • 1 0
 @rockandride6: I do not have enough insight in the case of Evil to say which decisions led to these layoffs. And yes, there are cases, where companies are affected by outside events that nobody could foresee. But I would argue that in the vast majority of cases internal mistakes lead to a situation where layoffs become inevitable. Also evidenced by other companies operating in the same market that are not negatively affected, or to a much smaller extent by the same external situation.
  • 2 0
 @FuzzyL: How many other companies operating in the bike industry haven't either made layoffs or taken on additional / emergency funding?

The layoffs are often not directly visible too, if the company owns a factory in China / Taiwan and they lay off half of the production staff nobody would hear a thing about it vs Evil laying off a handful of their staff in the USA.
  • 34 2
 While I am not a general fan of the company specialized I point out that they are a large bike producer. They put their bikes on sale BEFORE this last season. I guarantee that they have better forecasting and planning than any boutique. That sale pricing was a warning sign to everyone in the bike industry who was paying attention. As a consumer looking for a bike, I just said ok I can wait a few months because there are going to be some firesales and here we are and then some. Its going to be a few painful years. At a macro scale the economy is good but that is colored by executive and wall st pay. The average (an even above average) earner is facing a heavy descent in real income due to costs. Mean while the big CEOs at Apple, Exon, Amazon, Pfizer etc are all raking it in and those companies are making record money. "let the eat cake."
  • 22 7
 If they were better at forecasting they wouldn’t have years worth of extra bikes they have to put on sale…
  • 2 1
 Well said.
  • 14 14
 @Cyberhatter: Actually inflation is down on an annual basis. It's hovering low 3s, high 2s depending if you are looking at CPI or PCE. But hourly wages are up in the 4s and the lowest 10% of workers have seen the greatest wage gains in decades. MTBs is a hobby sport for the billion people who are lucky enough to live in a level 4 economy. The other 6 billion people in the middle income economy don't have the disposable income for this sport. Sorry economics nerd that also happens to be an MTB nerd here.
  • 33 5
 @Comatosegi: That's great that its leveled to 3% this year. Problem is most essential items for living are up in 50-70% range. So the damage has been done. The government published inflation numbers are a joke btw. They never line up with reality.

My Costco food bill is double of what it was 4 years ago for the same or less items. Gas is up 2.00 a gallon where I live. Housing is literally unaffordable for anybody to rent or purchase.

Stop looking at numbers and use your actual eyes. The economy is headed into the abyss for normal blue collar workers.

Wages are not keeping up on any level.

I'm so sick of people that just look at published stats. I don't need to look at BS numbers, I just look at my Bank account and expenditures month after month.

So sick of all these dummies that say "but the Economy is so strong"

The econmy is crap and will be getting much worse.
  • 5 4
 @Snowsed341: The voice of reason has spoken. Thank you!
  • 6 5
 @Comatosegi: ...you must be on some good drugs to believe all that crap
  • 4 1
 @Comatosegi: I don't think your stats are following reality well. Family of 4 here and I can tell you that my food bill is SIGNIFIGANTLY higher. My gas bills are higher. My insurance, health care etc all higher. Had another surprise $500 increase in annual homeowners insurance. I also work with people who are squeezed to do more with less on all fronts across industries. I think figures don't lie but liars figure.
  • 2 1
 @Comatosegi: and while 3 is great its higher than the fed target which means interest rates stay high too.
  • 1 0
 @avg-roadie: yes if they were better. However, do you think they are better than Evil? Guerilla? Orange on and on? I think they likely are. Specialize puts bikes on sale BEFORE the season - that's a troubling sign for every brand. Even if they are just huge f-ups - they alone can screw a lot of smaller companies just by having cheaper bikes at scale. Their bikes were already a decent value if soulless. At the prices they had all this year hard to buy something else. I didn't bought my first Spec ever.
  • 2 3
 @Snowsed341: As the saying goes, we all get what we deserve.
  • 2 1
 @Snowsed341: The real problem is that inflation ran hard for 2022-2023. That means your cost are still heavily elevated. The current CPI is just saying that cost increases are slowing. What you are saying you need is deflation, where cost comes down. The problem is deflation is usually correlated with a recession, so if more people lose their jobs, lower prices doesn't really help. And remember these are national numbers, nothing saying your local economy is great.
  • 2 1
 @Cyberhatter: Gas and food have high volatility, so much so that they strip them from the Core CPI and PCE b/c of how much noise they bring to the reading. Nationally about 10% of homeowners no longer have homeowner's insurance b/c they can't afford it, so your not alone. I saw an increase of about 25% personally. The increase in large natural disasters is driving up payouts, and we all know insurance companies are for-profit, so those cost just get passed along to us.
  • 1 1
 @Cyberhatter: Yeah Fed is so afraid of inflation running away like the 80's, the pain of high interest rates will continue. At least the market is realizing that and is pricing in a cut May-Jun and not Mar.
  • 2 0
 @Comatosegi: I'm guessing you are a college student or a single guy that has only yourself to worry about financially.

That's all great and stuff but some of us live in the real world.

Year over Year every single expense I have to provide for increases.

The only solution is that our employers pay us more, its really not hard to understand.
  • 2 1
 @Snowsed341: The problem is called wage/price spiral. Where wages increase, companies raise prices on customers. You can see that in the fast food industry, where now McDonald’s is a $15 per a person expense. Incomes do need to rise and the sad part is people have to leave their job in order to get a big increase somewhere else. I think the resurgence of unions will help with this. Housing is what scares me the most, as a bunch of Americans pay more than a third of income to shelter and are considered housing “at risk”.
  • 3 0
 @Snowsed341: someone here gets it. There are significant problems with the government published inflation numbers as well as unemployment numbers. Look at those grocery bills. They're RIDICULOUS now. And we're all so used to paying $3.50/gallon+ for fuel it's no big deal anymore.
  • 2 1
 @dsciulli19: 3.50 for fuel? If only. We pay close to 6.
  • 2 0
 @dsciulli19: yup its 5.75 a gallon in CA
  • 1 0
 @Comatosegi: 22.00 an Hr to work fast food now in CA btw. The fast food hourly hike is causing every small business to start paying kids at 22.00 an hr at all jobs.

Then this drives up labor rates and the cost to produce or cost of services.

its all just a mess and its not going to get better soon.
  • 27 0
 At least they made an announcement. I can guarantee you every single bike brand is laying off people en masse. Ive heard of entire creative teams let go. Whole divisions gone. Good on evil for actually saying this so the staff don't have to every single job interview.
  • 4 0
 This is a true statement...plus a lot of companies not replacing people that leave naturally
  • 29 2
 Demand high, bicycle manufacturers to consumers: haha pay me
Demand low, bicycle manufacturers to consumer: why you do this so mean
  • 14 0
 Remember when a chain was 2x MSRP?
  • 3 0
 @totaltoads: And tires were full MSRP period if you could find them.
  • 21 0
 As someone who was laid off from Nukeproof/Vitus in October, I can say this: it's a hell of a time to be seeking employment within the bike industry. It's got to be tough to be in Moeschler's shoes right now, and even harder to be the folks who are suddenly out of work. Best of luck to all the talented folks at Evil.
  • 20 0
 I wish I could fire people from my family.
  • 16 2
 I'm so surprised by this, given the design innovation and sheer amount of Evil bikes i see on the trail......
  • 5 3
 Can't tell if sarcasm...
  • 15 0
 @aphollis: A Brit. Always sarcasm.
  • 6 6
 @aphollis: Right? I have seen a few EVILs, but very few and the people who buy them were more into were casual MTB folks who were very much into the image of being 'badass' and having a 'badass' bike and a lifted truck. Not your standard dorky MTB dude who has been riding for decades with a station wagon.
  • 5 2
 @totaltoads: then you don’t live in the PNW bc there are monster riders on them here
  • 2 0
 @Deanosuar: Same here.
  • 12 0
 @Deanosuar: prognarcore bro-brah’s and core-ha’s. Schralping the deep woods like true loamtroopers. So sick.
  • 2 0
 @Tigergoosebumps: this is the way.
  • 10 0
 It's a bummer, but to be honest I am not surprised. We used to see TONS of Evils in the Denver area for several years, but it seems that Evil never really came out with anything "ground breaking" or "drool worthy" after their gen 1/2 Following and Wreckoning. I know Denver is just one market, and we do not see quite the same amount of PNW brands as you do in the PNW, but it does seem when a company gets on a roll, like Transition, Evil, Commencal, YT... for a year or so, that's all you see outside of the normal Yetis and Specialized bikes.
  • 7 1
 Even in Washington I rarely see Evil’s on the trail, but I could name like a dozen friends with Transition Patrols off the top of my head.
  • 4 2
 @Wing-nut: dude there are a shit ton in Washington, most common bike I saw on the i90s trails a few weeks ago
  • 1 1
 @Wing-nut: I Wrekon they like the hipster brand angles better
  • 7 4
 @Deanosuar: I live in Bellingham, it’s pretty rare to see one compared to Transition, Specialized and even Forbidden now. I feel like Evil’s marketing caters to skiers in Colorado and Utah
  • 1 0
 @chrisclifford: Even in the mountains west of Denver I don't see them much at all. All my buddies who have had them seem to have moved on to other brands.
  • 2 1
 @Wing-nut: I mean a no nonsense Horst link bike that can be had for a fair price in carbon OR alloy, lifetime warranty that you can actually use, but probably won’t need to because it’s built for the type of riding it’s intended for. Transition and Evil couldn’t be more opposite in my view.
  • 2 0
 We see very few in the Sea to Sky corridor in BC, which definitely isn't a good sign.
  • 2 0
 @Wing-nut: I rarely see anyone on the trails in WA! It’s great!
  • 3 0
 I am a Denver area rider and owned a Wreckoning. I moved onto GG when Revved came out and intend to ride my Trail Pistol and Gnarvana until they break. RIP.
  • 10 0
 It really troubles me when companies say they’re a family and continue to promote that mantra. But then when trouble times come along they layoff “family” members. How can you get rid of a family member?
  • 7 0
 There’s no loyalty in corporate America unless you work for yourself.
  • 4 2
 @stevemokan: That’s the truth! I don’t know why companies think they’re a family! It’s a stupid term because when it comes down to dollars they will cut headcount to protect the company but that’s not how “families” function.
  • 6 2
 @rivercitycycles: it seems like a better option to me than simply having to file bankruptcy and end the run of the brand
  • 4 0
 @tkrumroy: or they could all take pay cuts across the board and not fire anyone. But that’ll never happen in a corporate environment.
  • 7 1
 @stevemokan: have you ever taken a pay cut at your work? I did once. I'll take a layoff every time after that experience. It becomes a terrible place to work when everyone takes a pay cut.
  • 3 0
 @toooldtodieyoung: what worse is getting rid of 30% of the company ,keeping your pay the same. Then tell you you need to do 5 new jobs and when you can't get everything done they look at you as a POS ! The bike industry is truly a piece of crap.
  • 2 0
 @toooldtodieyoung: curious, why is that (honest question)? I survived many layoffs when I was in the corporate world and they were pretty brutal. But now I work for myself so it's irrelevant.
  • 1 0
 @stevemokan: or if you're a C-suite exec...
  • 2 0
 @stevemokan: it's a funny thing. It seems, in the moment, like you're being a team player and chipping in for the good of the company. But morale is low because the company's not doing well, and what you end up realizing is that you've volunteered to do the same job for less compensation. That's tough on the psyche. Then you start questioning every decision the owners/managers make about money. Hey, how come the owner just replaced his 1984 Lada Niva? That could have been everyone getting a buck an hour back! The whole thing becomes a cesspool of bad feeling, and in my case, I quit less than a month later.

So @Azrocktester , yes, I do think it's better to take a layoff or accept that your friends and peers needed to be let go. Edit: sorry, I misread your comment as a question. Sounds like you've had some personal experience with a situation that wasn't great. Sorry to hear it, if so.

Now as a company owner who has been forced to lay people off, I can tell you it feels like shit from the other side too. There is nothing fun about being involved with a company that is struggling.
  • 8 1
 Former Evil owner here - loved the bike I had 2017-2019. Seemed like Evil never had any bikes in stock during the pandemic though. Now they're still asking way too much for their frames and I won't even consider one due to super boost. I know the owners make a ton of money from the business - their building in Fairhaven is awfully nice. Sorry to hear of the layoffs but this is also an opportunity for those folks, hope they take advantage of it!
  • 3 0
 Superboost and pricing for sure set back the brand a bit. Evil used to be one of the cheaper boutique brands. Today a new frame costs a bit less than a full Insurgent V1 used to cost.
  • 8 0
 Again I feel for the staff here - after the layoffs at HLC, GG’s demise and other companies reducing staff finding another industry job won’t be easy.
  • 6 0
 Just came here to say that in spite what was stated above, layoffs are always personal to those who get cut. There are lots of people who can empathize with you all right now. I’m sorry this happened to you all.
  • 7 0
 "But it was such a cool place to work. Look at how much fun we are having".
  • 5 1
 I have a V1 Offering in the quiver. Amazing trail bike and love the interesting suspension design. I hope everyone affected finds new employment soon enough. My biggest turn off from Evil was moving to superboost. Yeah, may offer some additional stiffness in the rearend but for folks who have multiple bikes and wheels sets invested, anything superboosted is off the list of future bike consideration, no matter how much I like it. With the recent scale down in the bike industry, I hope the bike industry stops with the constant evolving frame standards and starts to standardize it or at least not continue to add to it.
  • 1 0
 for me at least, i did prefer the flex of the v1 better.
  • 4 0
 Every bike shop and company that was near bankruptcy in 2019...and should have probably shut their doors (bike industry was in a flat to decline state) was saved by the covid bike boom-and they never addressed their problems during this time, so here we are---stuck with a bunch of shit no one needs now. So, it will get worse.
  • 1 0
 THIS
  • 4 0
 Damn Evil has always been kne of my favorite brands n bikes out there, this is really sad to see but on the other hand their prices are a lil out of reach for most of us. I really hope they make a comeback soon!!
  • 8 1
 Maybe they need to have a PB review?
  • 3 0
 Underrated comment.
  • 3 0
 Sad news for sure, but kudos to them for being honest about what's happening. Been riding a Wreckoning since 2021, and coming off an ancient Stinky Deluxe I was after a 29er that wasn't gonna feel like a bus on North Shore jank. I think they get some undue hate for being expensive, it's a similar case to Yeti where they spec top level suspension and (mostly) quality parts on all builds. In light of layoffs though, it could be time they offered a properly entry level bike.
  • 3 0
 Hope they make it through this tough time for the bike industry. I don’t own an Evil now but I did own the Offering v2 and that might be one of my favorite riding bikes I’ve owned. The brand image is a little weird though and I suspect the deters some people.
  • 3 0
 Very expensive for a "meh" bike imo. Very expensive waterfront location in Bellingham. Not much innovation and not a great overall buying/biking experience with the brand. I'd reckon that's bound to happen. It sucks for the employees though, they shouldn't suffer cause their leadership made poor decisions. Those poor folks I'm sure wake up every day stoked to work in the ever crumbling bike industry and then this happens. I hope they are able to find work elsewhere fast, as for Evil, well, I hope they see this and potentially pivot to something better.
  • 3 0
 I've never worked anywhere to date where I'd consider a coworker(s) "family". This applies from Fortune 500 companies to small local companies.
I've had coworkers and managers that I get great along with, but never have or will I think of them as "family" due to the fact that my work isn't who or what I am. Work is what I happen to do, but it's not what my life is about or revolves around. To me, people and/or companies who refer to workers as "family" are trying to mindf*ck the employees into putting work above all else.
  • 11 8
 Maybe if you got rid of SUPERBOOST! I like their bikes and I like actually really like the geo numbers on the new pivot switch blade, but for allot of reasons I just could never pull the trigger on a superboost bike.
  • 12 13
 You should let go of your self imposed restriction and just ride it. Superboost is awesome
  • 6 0
 I agree. If they went 83mm BB shell with Superboost spacing I could maybe get behind the concept but just the axle is pointless.
  • 3 1
 It does stiffen up the rear end of the bike some compared to the 148 i've found.....if that is something you prefer.?
  • 3 1
 i own an offering v2 and just yesterday i've ridden the new switchblade, you're missing out, maybe you complain about the super boost and then get some crap with cable tourism
  • 2 0
 @nicoenduro: Your thoughts on the SB in comparison to the V2?
  • 2 1
 @likeittacky: the SB is a tad more zippy uphill, it makes you feel faster, although the suspension is quite stiff, while the evil climbs great, better on tech as it's more supple off the top, on the downhill i think the stock offering would be really close to the SB, mine running a 160 fork, push and -1 headset is way better on the way down, it feels more like the firebird, i feel the SB could only benefit from a coil in the back as it pedals great but lacks sensitivity imo. also, the evil is easier to pick up, jump and get off the ground despite being heavier.
but i'm just being picky both are great bikes.
  • 2 0
 @nicoenduro: Yea, i recall somewhere hearing they retuned the shock on new SB. I was going to suggest doing what you already did to the Evil with HA and 160 up frt. Is that Push in the fork or coil rear?? Coil R. would be sik.
  • 2 0
 @likeittacky: pivot also tunes their bikes to pro level riding so a lot of people will feel like the suspension is too stiff until you push the bike the way they were meant to be ridden.

I’ve had a kitsuma coil, float x, dpx2, and an x2 on my switchblade and the float x was by far the most fun tk pedal but the coil turned it into a downhill machine. If I lived at Pisgah I would have never gotten rid of the coil - but I live in central flat NV where j pedal 95% of the time so I went back to air eventually.
  • 1 0
 @tkrumroy: yea man you've tried some coils for sure, Should try the Ohlins TTX2 air, iv'e only heard good stuff about that shock.
  • 1 0
 @likeittacky: i have the 11.6 rear, i tried an acs3 36, is lovely but doesn't match the progressivness of delta, so i went with a luftkappe to match the performances of the rear suspension.
btw the switchblade is already 160
  • 1 0
 @nicoenduro: Nice. Yea the SB is 160... i was referring to the Evil going 160 if still a 150 but as you mentioned you already had done that. The Offering coiled with 1*AS and 160 fork is the killer set up. I'd like to see them bump the cush just a smidge on the rear travel closer to 150 while retaining it's spirited manner and do away with the flip chip + add an adjustable HA / Reach- head cups. That would take it to another level; maybe spec it with a Vivid and slightly burlier fork and optional mullet link.
  • 2 0
 @likeittacky: oh I misunderstood
Yeah it’s a killer setup
And agree on a tad more rear travel
  • 2 0
 I owned the Offering for a while and I didn't like the super short chainstays on an XL bike. Also, the seat tube was too slack. The rear suspension worked really well, but the geo isn't great for a tall guy. Maybe they'll get geo that makes sense as the bikes scale up and I'll give them another try!
  • 1 2
 You'd defiently want more CS on an XL with steeper SA for sure.
  • 3 1
 It's sad to see people losing their jobs. I wish them well. This oversupply of bikes has enabled me to be able to purchase 3 bikes at solid discounts. I don't even look at buying a bike part unless it's 30 percent off or more. The lesson here is to always have cash in hand for when the company you work for decides you are not a family member anymore. Also if you have cash, you can take advantage of economic downturns. Savings = options.
  • 3 0
 @Hayek: If only you were there for a certain brand in Colorado that waved goodbye to its core staff and hired a bunch of ski instructors to run what has become a bridge-burning clown car.
  • 4 0
 Amazing there was absolutely no PB coverage of Trek's layoffs back in August but all of the other financial/staffing announcements are front and center.
  • 4 0
 Sorry to hear it, hope those folks land on their feet. I was worried this felt inevitable with all the sales.
  • 4 1
 They have a long road ahead of them. Even living in Washington I rarely see Evil bikes on the trail, but will often ride with a group where everyone has a Transition.
  • 4 2
 Is it all the stupid little rich kids who get a new bike off mummy and daddy every year putting the childish comments on here about peoples livelihood's being potentially ruined?
  • 4 0
 I think they are confusing decreasing lower demand with consumers just not willing to pay ever inflating prices.
  • 5 0
 I wonder if the people at the top of the family took a pay reduction.
  • 6 3
 Probs because every man woman and child that’s bought a V3 wreckoning has had it replaced 3 times on warranty
  • 3 0
 Seems like they never had bikes in stock. At least the few times I looked on their website everything was sold out.
  • 3 0
 Bike industry: well, well, well, if it isn't the consequences of my own actions
  • 4 0
 The economy is booming he said.
  • 7 2
 Bikes are overpriced.
  • 9 3
 Thank you for the in-depth feedback.
  • 3 0
 Im impressed actually, I thought Evil bikes went under years ago..I had no idea they even still made product..
  • 4 0
 Can we stop with that "family" nonsense?
  • 3 0
 Bummer, always loved the brand and much enjoyed my followingV1. Seems like a lot of employees for small bike co tho...
  • 1 1
 One less place to see Evil, even jokingly, tolerated and celebrated by putting the name on a bike frame, is fine with me. I've talked to and learned a little bit from real people who were subjected to SRA, ritual abuse, as children. It's no joke, and only ignorant self centered fools think it's ok. I'm no religious person, but evil is real and hurts people for fun and profit. Nothing cool about it. Retarded name. Good riddance.
  • 4 1
 I assume they’ll be closing shop soon
  • 1 0
 I stop in Bellingham several times a year ; I have never seen their office open a single time.
  • 3 0
 I didn't even know they were still in business.
  • 1 1
 The only bike co to close in the US so far is Gorilla Gravity. We keep hearing "who's next" to close but its just not happening. Every bike co has lows they go through but rarely do they fail!
  • 3 0
 Rally cars are expensive. . . . .
  • 1 0
 Owner's into rally cars?
  • 1 0
 damn it Ed! see what you started? theres omly a select few of us than can take all this discourse and not think that we know anything!
  • 1 0
 Bummer for the workers. I loved the bikes but they shafted me hard on my Undead so it’s interesting to see that so many others have had problems too.
  • 1 0
 one after another they all fall. Evidently there are incompetent managers in addition to the properties who in many cases are only interested in money (dont know about Evil)
  • 1 0
 Go woke go broke Evil. They’re going the way if Bud Light it seems as per their recent Social Media posting on FB. Nice knowin’ ya.
  • 5 4
 I have rode MTB since 1989 . I own a Evil Following V2 . Best around Bike Ever , Period.
  • 3 1
 Did Pinkbike ever review an Evil bike?
  • 3 0
 following v3
  • 2 3
 @ Pinkbike: Could you at least switch off the comment function for such messages. It's just pathetic what some people say here. Either they are young and don't know any better or they are stupid.
  • 1 0
 Here's to hoping evil sends these guys out with glowing and specific letters of recommendation
  • 4 3
 A very big bang is on the way...
  • 14 3
 Are you talking about a big poop or something different?
  • 2 1
 Please put the dirt jump frame on sale
  • 4 0
 Backcountry has them onsale
  • 3 0
 @Roost66: thank you!!!!!
  • 6 6
 In my time in the industry I had to deal with evil a few times. Never a pleasant experience.
  • 7 1
 Interesting. Please explain.
  • 9 2
 I've only had awesome experiences with them
  • 2 2
 They were supportive of me and hooked me up w free stuff. I forgot what but won’t forget all together. I miss the chromed chromag bars the most from that bike.
  • 2 0
 @Tigergoosebumps: sounds like you’re speaking as a consumer. They do seem to have a better attitude towards the people purchasing their bikes. But within the industry it’s a different story.
  • 3 3
 @generictrailrider: First off, they tend to have a rather condescending attitude. Then I’ve also had issues with email being ignored after they specifically request that I use email instead of phone, just so they could ignore it easier. Margins are not as good as most other brands. And they just ride around up there and that high horse. It was time for them to get taken down a peg or two. And as this bubble deflates, it’s companies like this that will be in trouble. A big nail in GG’s coffin was that they treated employees like trash(in addition to the loss of investor money). Orange doesn’t really innovate. And Evil is just evil. Seems like par for the course.
  • 4 3
 @nastynate711: Maybe its you're just too Nasty-Nate Pirate There's a time to be supple and a time to be rigid; being rigid while attempting to be helped is not the advised approach, unless you are with 100% assuredness that you are being treated unfairly, taking advantage, overly misunderstood or being ripped off. Being ignored doesn't mean you are in the right and deserving to get it your way or special attention Rolleyes

Evil Bikes and staff are very prompt and very likely to fix a problem that is legit, and has in my experiences.

Hopefully that will continue in the future of the company to.
  • 1 0
 @likeittacky: you’re doing a lot of talking while knowing nothing. What makes you think I was so rigid? Making assumptions based off of a nickname? My coworkers shared the same sentiments as me, and had similar issues. I’ve also seen a different shop drop them as a dealer out of frustration and poor support.

I’ve always heard mixed reviews on working with them. One of my good friends is a total fan boy, and I’ll admit I wanted one at one point. But it seems like they have their circle of friends, and if you’re in, you’ll be taken care of, otherwise they didn’t care. Most of my experiences were when their popularity had really peaked. Maybe now that it’s declined, they value dealers a little more, but I’m not in retail anymore.
  • 1 0
 @nastynate711: No dingbat not because of your user name, although it was a good play on itself. it's your whole post that is aggressive. I never had that experience as mentioned; but rather only 100% positive. You expressed dissatisfaction for reasons unknown. At least give a synopsis of the issue... maybe it would be more revealing than to just hew down companies that are in loss for many different reasons. Go start a bike company if you got it all figured out., perhaps?
  • 2 1
 Unfortunate but likely a necessary Evil.
  • 2 1
 The problem with the industry is that it’s not evil enough
  • 4 3
 Not surprising. Didn't everyone forget that Evil existed? LOL
  • 2 1
 So when do the bikes go up for sale cheaper?
  • 9 12
 love the bikes, but dont ride them because of the name. goes against and disrespectful to what i believe. great bikes terrible names. kind of a bad marketing strategy because alot of people who ride are religious and probably dont want that kind of name for riding.
  • 3 0
 Maybe they should start a sister brand called “Good”.
  • 1 0
 And here we are using the Internet doing good!
  • 1 0
 So an Evil OVERLORD won't be on the cards anytime soon?!
  • 1 0
 At the same time Trek/specialized are raising the prices.
  • 2 0
 This is just Evil
  • 1 0
 shame, i feel like evil isn't what it used to be
  • 2 2
 Do what you have to do to survive, make sense its not Evil.
  • 1 0
 Shocking news
  • 1 1
 A tough pill to swallow.
  • 3 3
 bleed green die broke
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