Are you Concerned About the Demise of Bike Shops? - Pinkbike Poll

 Preach it.

 Where is that shop you're talking about? Sounds extremely different to what we have here.

 The bike shops that do those things will probably survive. Those with a small selection of overpriced parts, one brand of bike (yes I know that's an industry problem) and unfriendly staff will die. Works for me.

 1000 props to you

 Bike shops aren't just places we go to buy bikes and parts, people! I go there sometimes just to look at the shiny things I can't afford and talk to people who share my passion!

 Hi Larry

 Those bike shops up there only exist in destination areas like Moab and in the movies. To find a good one local is like catching my wife in a good mood two days in a row.

 That being said, I have two local shops that I like. The one I drink beer at, that has nothing I would ever buy, and the one that has everything I could ever want, but is too far away to go to.

 Learn to do it yourself. I am still floored at how many riders can't repair a flat tire, install a new saddle, replace their cables. Come on people...get your hands dirty and now with the advent of youtube you don't have to go at it alone. Stop writing checks for everything and become useful again. Bike shops are over priced retailers that are being eaten for breakfast, lunch and dinner by Amazon and eBay.

 @Deartist7: you need better bike shops. And the biking community needs to support bike shops and you'll see an increase in quality of your bike shops. Here in san diego we have an amazing bike shop, I'm good friends with the head mechanic, hell ive met his family, been to his house, and I'll probably have some tamales saved this holiday season for him.

 @kubaner: haha, that's funny, I want to be your friend, I could drink with you

 I deal with many bikes shops in my home town. I have gotten to know the owners and staff and have gone on many rides with them and made many friends. Here's the secret with getting good prices at a bike shop - don't be a dick. Build a relationship, become a return customer - bring the crew some donuts maybe beer in appreciation for that last minute fix. It's remarkable what happens when you are a nice person.

 "Online retailers won't be there on a Sunday morning with a new tire and a smile when you slash a sidewall 10 mins into a ride."

No but its rare a bike shop is open on Sunday and equally as iffy if a shop or online retailer will provide you with a free replacement believing the story and because of the strict/limited warranties on tires.

"Online retailers won't be organizing group rides to get women, kids, and beginners into the sport in your area."

I know of just as many online retailers that will organize group rides as local bike shops. Mind you most group rides are organized by local groups who meet at shops, not the other way around.

"Online retailers won't be out at trail work days giving the local runs some love."

Maybe not the shop as a presence but just like any rider, its up to the rider him/herself to dedicate the time to building/maintaining trails.

"Online retailers won't sponsor and support local high school racers."

Well actually they do and some with a bigger budget provide a lot more support than some of the local bike shops.


I love local shops and feel they will always have a place but using those points in order to justify supporting local shops over online shops, which do have a local presence- they're not just some imaginary information cloud that doesn't have a location/store front, is absurd. Its just a changing marketplace, that is all. You're attempting to romanticize a form of business with flawed points. Its all about adapt or die.

For every positive story, I've heard a horror story about local bike shops refusing to help someone because they bought their gear from another shop or online source or wrangled them into purchasing service/product they didn't need.

 @dv8416: Ah yes ye ol' "Shower a shop with gifts to show you're worthy of making a purchase from them? routine. Why is it that only the cycling industry works this way?

 meh, bike shops never have the hanger i need, or know how to service anything that isnt basic. and thats when they're open (not sunday)
aaand i always have a spare tire. easier.

honestly, its not even about money anymore.

 @larryssman7 Yeah Larry! I agree, shop knowledge and support is invaluable. If people support their local shop they will have a better experience around riding. I can guarantee that people with firsthand knowledge of the problems customers are dealing with are going to help you much more than a bunch of forum trolls. I owe a lot to my local shop and am always thankful to have them around.

 @thepwnstar39: So you're assuming that no one that works for an online shop is knowledgeable and that everyone who works for a local shop always has invaluable information?

Anyone who talks in absolutes about online or local shops are kidding themselves. Both have the same level of requirements to work for them.

 Well said.

The social aspect of bike shops gets lost a lot as well.

A new store opened near my area, my forks desperately needed a service so I gave this new store a go.

When I got there, the staff sorted out the fork service but before I could leave the staff memeber was straight into "we're doing a social ride just before new years, should be epic fun, just bring a few beers for after the rides done."

THIS is what I feels missing from a lot of bike shops more than saving money, making the store a social hub for like minded individuals, not just a place to leave your money and pickup your serviced bike/bike parts.

 @scott-townes: No, I didn't say that - you are the one assuming my friend. I am familiar with a lot of quality online retailers, but I do value LBS knowledge and support more than what most online retailers offer. You can support whatever you want with your dollars, my experience has told me otherwise.

 @gonecoastal: and why is the bike industry the only one where a deal is expected? Do you ask for a "deal' on your groceries? your gas? beer? No, you walk in the store, see the price and buy it or you don't

At the end of the day treat people as you would like to be treated, build a relationship/bring coffee and donuts once in a while and the courtesy will be returned in some way, shape or form. Bring in parts that were "cheaper somewhere else" and expect to pay standard rates to have them installed.

If you don't like something about a shop, I suggest you find one that can fill your needs but for F*** sakes don't expect a discount when it is not earned or deserved.

 @PhillipJ: This is very true. Economics is economics; the shops that do the things online retailers cannot will survive. Those that don't will either imitate (ie get better) or close their doors if it isn't worth it for them.

 @dimitree: some. Some are fantastic and full featured, like in Moab. Some, like my local shop, (All Terrain Sports, for anyone ever through Laramie) are very helpful, reasonable (retail prices, will knock the price down for older or used items, if they have them) shops that keep the town outfitted with your average, quality bicycle and great service. This means you aren't going to find a carbon enduro just laying around as a showroom model. These shops also support the thriving enthusiast community, and although they won't have a new pike in the back for you, they will order it for you and cut the steerer for free. The mechanic will tell you how to bleed your dropper. You bring them beer to show your appreciation. Etc. There are other shops that may be a bit high priced, but ultimately give a lot back to the community (have one of those toring o). Bike shops aren't perfect everywhere, but if you have a good one, support it.

 @Austin-Smith: Haha sup dude! Hows the Tracer?

 @gonecoastal: come on, that's not what he meant. If the dudes at the shop work extra hours, it's perfectly fine to show some appreciation...

 @giantguy07: Countless articles have been written by the media about "bro-ing down" with the LBS. If this wasn't the tone of the industry as a whole it wouldn't be so laughable.
I don't arrive at the car lot with a six'er of suds to take a Tacoma out for a circle-jerk, er test drive. With the end result of hoping to shave a few numbers off the sticker price, so why should the LBS be different?

The shop I deal with holds a weekly social ride, donates time towards community events, and is able to pull out obscure parts from yesteryear on a whim. I bring beers to the social ride the few times a year I attend them.

On the other hand, the shop down the street from my house sold me a 9M roll of Stan's tape this summer for $22. I should've been able to wrap four to five rims. I was able to wrap 1.5. And I was leaving for Whistler in the AM... So yeah it's practice at this "bro-brah-bree" shop to pinch out of the consumer packaging then put it back on the shelf. Now I could've went back a week later to complain about the Stans Tape; but it's a "Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me(or as G.W. Bush said 'Shame on you again')" moment. The previous time I attempted to support them, I was going to be keystoned for a Shimano 10spd 11-36 cassette and chain that they "Needed to order and wouldn't be here for almost two weeks."

I never ask for a deal, nor do I expect one. As a consumer I have the ability to know pricing outside of the LBS and make purchasing decisions based upon perceived value.
I'm curious what the earned or deserved threshold of LBS discount is? Is it a $ amount spent /year? Race/event placement? Treats brought in for da boys? Gummers given out back to the tool pushers? Enlighten us!

 @Lookinforit: agreed

 It's pretty simple: buy online what the shop doesn't carry. They're not going to have those DVO forks anyway, so get them online. But don't buy the icetech rotors online because they are 13% cheaper. You are slitting your own throat. Changing bearings, shock bushings, rebuilding your hubs is not fun and it's not worth it to do it yourself. Hell, who really likes taking a hammer to their forks anyway? That's why there are shops and we need them desperately!

 @TFreeman:
" the biking community needs to support bike shops and you'll see an increase in quality of your bike shops"

That's just nonsense, isn't it? Many of us have supported our local bike shops for YEARS (decades, for me). And they're still crap.

 @bankz: Exactly. I went into my LBS to get some XT pads... guess what.... no pads and I had to get them off CRC.

IMO bike shops need to focus on servicing rather than sales. If you could drop your shock, fork and dropper in for a service / rebuild rather than sending it away I would be happy to support them.

 Exactly!! I bought a YT and before that Transition that I bought online. I do most of my bike maintainance myself and I'm still in the shop all the time for tools/parts/tubes random stuff. Sales of bikes are gonna turn down in the retail market for sure but where are you gonna go to keep your bike going...even if you do your own maintainance? LBS fo LYFE!!!!

 Ever thought that there were too many bike shops before ?

I mean if every one can still get their bike repaired/serviced then there is enough bike shops right ?

My shitty little town has lost a few shops over the years, there were waaaaay to many, massively over saturated,some shops have gone but so what ? Most the shops that have gone went because there was no need for them to be there.

I have no problems getting work done on my bike and don't see that changing.

 I work for a bike shop over the summer and honestly if I didn't get 50℅off of everything I would shop online. The shop I'm at is massive but dues nothing for the community but the tiny shop across town does all the local stuff like group rides every week

 @kubaner: The one I drink beer at, that has nothing I would ever buy ... That's a pub.

the one that has everything I could ever want, but is too far away to go to ... not quite local then.

 I buy more beers than parts or service at my LBS, fun fact

 Lucky you, larryssman7, there are a good few bike shops in my city but not a single one that would be open on Sundays.

 The shops in my area don't do trail work or group rides, quite frankly I don't care if they disappear bc I already do all of my own maintenance.

 This is a great list. I'd add this: online retailers won't provide you with demo bikes to try before you buy.

 @Lookinforit: iv'be worked in the bike ibdustry for almost 10 hears now, and thats hoe it al got started for me: looking at shiny things y couldnt afford while hanging out at my local shop and talking to the staff!

 @dv8416: calling BS on getting good prices from lbs. Your experience in your community sounds great but I have never once gotten the "hey, your not a dick discount", and I have a good respectable relationship with my lbs.

 @manyturns: In EU you have a legal right to return anything* purchased online within 2 weeks, so in theory I could buy a bike online, test it for a week in a bike park and then return it back.

*As long as you return it in a condition that allows the retailer to sell it again as a new product.

 Bike shops rule!

 @fedz:
Semantics. But no the first is indeed a shop. And the second is local, but not close enough to walk my bike to with a sliced tire.
If it makes you feel better though I'm sorry for not being spot on with my description.

 I can buy two of basically every bike part online for the price of one part at my local shops. So no, I do not need to be bent over and have a bike shop break it off inside of me. I can simply take spares on my bike trips and easily fix any bike problem I run into.

Where I live, bike trails, maintenance, and group rides do not require a bike shop. We have social media that allows people to create bike groups, promote trail advocacy, talk about great riding locations, etc. And exactly that happens and we have very active trail maintenance/building groups, and very active social riding groups.

About the only use I see from a shop is maintenance issue for those that do not like to work on their own bikes.

 There will always be a couple here and there but... I have around 6 bikes and i rarely go to shops. When i do its to buy tubes or simple things. Way too expensive to actually buy anything off the shelf.

 @kieran-nnilsen: dumb ass

 Well said man!

 Sounds great, shame all the ones I've ever used have had rude staff only interested in big sales, or old guys who seem to have given up on the dream.

I prefer the old guys but try and talk modern tech and they're lost.

Actually theres one store I found here (specialized) who were partially helpful but they should be given the 40-60% markup on all the products.

Smiling faces and fresh tyres..try a pissed off look and "it'll be ready in two weeks"

Can you help me get a good fit on a helmet.."theres the rack, try them on"

Sorry but no love lost from me. Lots more money in my pocket and a lot more knowledge in my head from learning to diy.

 @Enzyme: Yeah I usually get rude, ignorant or both when talking to people in shops. Earlier this year I was prepared to spend double the price for a chain ring to get it immediately before a trip. I call and ask for a 96 BCD 30t chain ring. Guy starts asking what BB I have. I tell him I know exactly what I want, please just look if you have it. He refused, says I have to bring my bike in to make sure I am getting the correct part.

All the other shops just didn't have it. This is a very popular chainring for very common cranks. They said they could order it and I could pay about double price for them.

Sorry, but this is why so many shops are going out of business.

And even though I am the least mechanically inclined person ever, I have since learned how to work on every piece of my bike with the exception of wheel building. I now find it cathartic to spend time maintaining it myself.

 @giantguy07: I feel like you can'tcompare bike shops to grocery stored or beer distributers. I don't go to a grocery store and just accept the price. I look for the best deal, and find cheaper stores. You can't blame people for wanting to get things biking related for the best available price either.

 @dv8416: Beer is always appreciated, but when its usually of abundance in a bike shop, going the distance and picking up some cold cuts is the ultimate gesture of gratitude.

 @Nimasterj: i agree 100%, my point was asking why everyone seems to think prices in bike shops are negotiable. Everyone should get the best price they can, just don't expect discounts and deals when doing so. They are earned through loyalty and "not being a dick".

 @giantguy07: ah I gotcha, I think i misunderstood your comment. I agree with your point that you can't just roll into a shop and expect to haggle the listed price down.

 There are 2 sides to your argument. True, Some shops, for the longest time, have had an entitlement complex. Where it was believed that riders absolutely needed shops and that there was a knowledge gap. We'll thanks to YouTube and places like PB, that gap has closed a bit. Riders are a bit more handy than they used to be.
On the other hand, many shops don't even need the high end specialty business. How much floor space is dedicated to mtb? Most shops in an urban setting get their business from the family bikes, beach cruisers, bmx, commuters, crackheads etc. That's how most shops profit. Maybe they never needed us?

 @fartymarty: some shocks and droppers can only be serviced with expensive specialty tools
it is up to the manufacturers to make a product that a wrench making just making minimum wage
could figure out love the reverb tools cost less than 100$ can be done in an hour with all the steps online for anyone to see same with forks and some rear shocks

 @dv8416: I pay them for services rendered its a business and sometimes they can't do that last minute fix no matter how much beer you give..My experience working in shop's for five years I realized just how outdated the industry is, bikes are 30-50 percent markup at shops gear is almost always keystone! The markup is insane no other retail industry except maybe beauty care products has such a consistent markup on product. To be a healthy shop you need to give everyone a deal on product and focus on servicing bikes (home mecanics can do alot but even I will my go into shop's for headset replacements and complicated seal replacements).I cant believe the lack of financing options bike shops have. Bike shops should be ran like car dealerships focus on making money off interest and service sell the bikes at a super low markup. Its the future and the only way this industry would make sense.

 hy man, since the 1 october i own a bike shop here in Italy between Venice and Slovenia, i think that your post will be hung on the wall the next monday. Thank you so much, see you for a ride, cheers!

 @Deartist7: Fusion Multisport
Los Alamos, NM
We work very hard to do all the above

 @Extremmist: i dare say a week in a bikepark would show up on the frame

 No we do not. Maybe some noobs do. Local shops are useless for any advanced parts.

 @dimitree: I had a guy buy a new bike from me.... used it once and got a flat tire during his ride... he was not only pissed that he got a flat tire (twice), he was super pissed cause the front brake stopped working after he did a trail-side repair (*** he put the wheel on backwards so the rotor was on the right not left). I pointed out that flats are flats and when you ride off-road, shit's gonna happen. pointing at the large thorn that was still stuck in his tire... he turned beat red when I pointed out that he point the wheel on the fork the wrong way. He did settle down knowing full well didn't need to get all ticked off over such a simple thing.

 @giantguy07: that's sorta a pet peeve of mine too.. why is it so many people expect some sort of special deal? several years of being in the biz, I'll hook people up without even letting them know they've been hooked up. It's usually the hot-shot people who "raced" or were on a team at some point in time. like they're some sort of elite rider and should get things for free cause I know them seems to be the impression they want to present. Bike racing in Murica aint jack-shit compared to other sports. **** the best was a young kid asking me if I would sponsor his racing --- he seriously said he'd put the bumper sticker my shop had on his mom's van when he was at races... WUP-DEE-DO-DA!!! right on kid --- here's your new Ellsworth, now go win some races.

 @dv8416: @dv8416: and the same goes for shop staff - don't be arrogant dicks and we'll keep coming back. I've certainly boycotted a few local shops due to excessive attitude (and guess what - they lose!). And the shops that give good service and help you out, I keep coming back. Personally I use both a mix of online and local, but in agreement with this article - we need local shops so it's important to give them some financial support, especially if they're great to you and your community.

 @dimitree: I can fix a lot of things on my bike but do I really want to buy a headset tool or other specialized tools I may use only a few times? There are certain things I'd rather leave to a shop to repair. Besides, what do you do if you need a part that you don't have and your ride is in a couple of hours? When riding in Pisgah 2 years ago my Reverb post decided to die on me at the beginning of a ride, luckily I was in front of the Hub Cyclery and was able to get a Reynolds carbon post to hold me over. Vacation saved. Shops serve a purpose.

 @Acupunk62: yes. You really want to buy specialized tools. I am riding for more than twenty years, and plan on riding more than that. I have two kids and wife - all the tools paid for themselves many times over in money and time saved.

 Kinetik Cycles in Coquitlam does all of the above. FTW! Long live the LBS!

 If you're even remotely near Denver, go to Mojo Wheels! I drive nearly 2 hours each way and it's absolutely worth it. Hands down the best shop I've ever been to. Their customer service is second to none, massive inventory and they'll work with you on prices for the stuff they can. It really is what a bike shop should be..if only they had beer

 @dimitree: Bike shops aren't over priced, it's the zero control of map and msrp from manufactures with the online giants that gives you a false sense of being ripped off by a LBS. Shimano is the best example. No LBS can match CRC prices on Shimano, CRC sells it at wholesale pricing... Is the LBS at fault? Further more good for you can repair a flat and change your saddle. Can you true a wheel? You know...replace a spoke when one breaks... And how is your online warranty working for you?

 @Acupunk62: You can look up homemade headset tools online. I just installed one with a homemade one that cost me like $6 total.You just have to spend a bit more time while setting the cups to insure they go in straight, but it was actually pretty easy.

 @TwoWheelPhrenzy: True a wheel? 2 zip ties and a spoke wrench that costs a few dollars. Repairing a flat? You shouldn't even be allowed to ride a bike on a trail if you cannot fix a flat. Everyone remotely interested in biking can fix a flat. Change a saddle? Oh shit, what size allen wrench goes in the hole? I can't do it! I am so confuse! Online warranty? Anytime I have had an issue, my preferred retailer (Jenson) has sent me new parts no questions asked. I have a tire in the mail headed my way for that exact reason and all it took was one email describing my issue.

The only legit point you have is when a spoke breaks. Building wheels is about the one single thing that is a bit harder to do and costs a fair amount for the right tools that you will rarely ever use. I personally have never needed a spoke replaced and all my wheels are built when I order them online. I will have to use a bike shop if I ever destroy some spokes.

 @manyturns: The ones around me have the wrong bikes in the right size and the right bikes in the wrong sizes.

 Local bike shop no1 - took the boys bike in after just having it freshly painted, they'd taken headset out and BB, asked them to 'take care' refitting. Collected frame and he'd managed to take a gouge to the metal out of the fresh paint right on the downtube. Offered some non matching touch up paint as apology...

Local bike shop no2 - dropped daughters bike in to see if he could sort rear shifter out as i'd removed and replaced whole drivertrain for a 1x10, but was having trouble getting it shifting cleanly. Shop managed to split the new Shimano chain in the middle of it, even though joining link was there ready to use, bike came back in same condition didn't even fit a cable end to shifter cable.

Local bike shop no3 - dropped above bike in and asked them to see if they could sort the shifting out. They decided to fit a brand new SRAM chain, as they 'preferred SRAM', without even calling to discuss.

So, not the best. I've since learned to do a lot more myself after this and all the parts have been bought from online retailers with extra 10% discount via workplace scheme.

Sorry, but my LBSs failed me.

 Honestly most bike shops don't seem to do very much. Now, trail groups and Mtb organizations not interested in a profit are the ones building and organizing. Also, most MtB work is pretty basic and the shop is just a place for people without time or an excess of money to take a bike to be fixed. Don't shops mostly send out forks and shocks now and don't rebuild in house. And I'm sorry, I'm not going to pay you a markup for a product for the simple fact you have it. The business model is flawed, as the selection and pricing online is just exponentially better. I love to hang at my LBS but From a business perspective it's not a way to make a decent living anymore.

 @PedalShopLLC: I'm amazed that shops don't go over things like putting the wheel on properly, especially given how every shop I go to the staff talk to me like I'm a complete idiot.

 i couldn't have said it better. but as a university student i don't always get to choose ...

 @Deartist7: I would like to know too.

What I know of, is botched jobs
long waits on returns
and people trying sell you what you dont need or want.

Unfortunatel, most of my experience with bike shops, have not been positive.

 So true. Sounds like a shop I know in Stratford Ontario.

 @dimitree: I have learned todo a lot of stuff over the last couple years. The things I haven't done are wheel building and shock work. That said I think its harder for people just getting into the sport. It does suck the local shops have very limited choices. I think there should be resources to demo bikes. (then again, my last 2 purchased I never demo'd).

 @sutter2k: I find it pretty funny how many people think that rolling a bike around a parking lot is a good way to test a bike...

 I'm pretty self-sufficient, but there are some really great shops out there. Elevation Cycles, Mojo Bike Cafe, and Roaring Mouse in San Francisco, The Outpost in Topanga, and Race Pace in Elkridge Maryland.

 @Tvaneijk: good point on te cost of tools. I guess a shop needs to figure out if this is the route they want to take.

 well said mate

 @PedalShopLLC: I thought it was well know that the "carpark test" is the best way to test if your bike is performing correctly

 @Aaronstashy325: Around here they're mainly vegan fixie riders.

 An exception, 'Universal Cycles'.

 @PedalShopLLC: I find it pretty unfunny how many shops think that rolling a bike around a parking lot is a good way to test a bike...and that's what they limit you to.

 @unrooted: though the years, I have gotten brushed off sorta by customers who talk it up like they know everything about bikes. seeing them out at the trail changing a tube tells me, they never learned the right way, taking several minutes to make the change.

 @PedalShopLLC: Wow, several minutes to change a tube!?!?! What a bunch of morons! /sarcasm

You sound like one of the shops everyone here is complaining about. You feel brushed off by customers so you decided to just paint a broad brush stroke and assume everyone is below your level?

 @IronBender: wow, yup, you completely misread what I was saying ---

I can re-word:

ME: want me to show you the ropes with common trail side fixes?

Customer: NAH, I got it...


meet up with same customer for a ride:


Customer: Damn, I got a flat and I just got this bike.

ME: I can help ya. Want me to do it for ya?

Customer: Nah, I got it...

ME: (20 minutes later). want me to show you an easy trick for changing tubes?

Customer: yeah, would you? this ones giving me serious trouble

 @truffy: yeah.. that's a tough call.. It's not like buying a car where it'll have several hundred miles on it and you're still paying $XXX. It's not like LBS's can just hand ya a bike and tell ya to go hit dirt with it for an afternoon. It would be nice if we could do that but, we all know, that just ain't gonna pan out for the LBS if they let that happen on a regular basis. same reason car, ski, jet ski, boat and other rental places go through that whole insurance schpeel before you take their inventory for a spin. you break it, you buy it.

 I love and appreciate bike shops, but I beg to differ on the online retailers not being there on your riding trip. We have next day shipped many hangers and spare parts for YT customers. It is unlikely that most shops would carry our hangers, but it's unlikely they would carry more than one or two brand's spare parts, either. Jus sayin, we've been there and will do everything we can to keep our people happy and it is our whole brand's reputation on the line each time.

 @Deartist7: Sycamore Cycles @Pisgah Forest in Brevard

 @Deartist7: Sycamore Cycles @ Pisgah Forest in Brevard is one!

 My lbs doesn't do any of those things and the 16 year old scooter kid behind the counter isn't much help with mechanical advice. What you describe sounds like a dream world to me, Ive taught myself to build, repair and tune ,y own bike at a very young age and I always stock extra hangers, tubes and cables in my truck because my lbs is way too hungover to provide any of that on a sunday morning.

 @IronBender: wheel building is fun and actually not that hard if you pay close attention. I watch this video every time.




youtu.be/AOI3uBztvHc

 @fartymarty: Agreed. I opened a shop earlier this year and our focus is service, restoration, and lastly sales. We can get new bikes if requested from several manufacturers, but we mostly stock a rotating selection of rebuilt used bikes. Beaters to high end vintage bikes.

 Pffft. WTF world you livin' in? I have no idea WTF you're talkin' 'boot. What you're preachin' sounds almost as bogus as the fvckin' Bible. I've never heard of such a thing. Even if there is a shop like that oot there, almost no one cares. They're not needed for any of that. They're only really useful for products & repairs. Products are easily obtained elsewhere often for less $ & bike repair sure ain't fvckin' brain surgery is it? Good if you need a common part in a pinch but other than that they'll have little to offer going forward & serious bikers will adapt around needing parts right away. Casuals by their bikes at Walmart so, there you go.

 At least none of you has my kind of shop.

From the mechanics being plain *ssholes that get upset when you show hints of knowing what they are doing, to employees around the shop that know nothing about bikes and are just around trying to sell random stuff to the customers.
In my city we have around 6-7 bike shops. I have visited at least 5 of them, the most popular ones, and they're all a pile of sh*t.
First, you enter the shop, and soon you're either surrounded by employees asking you to buy something or trying to get you into clipless, checking out a bike, OR...no one at all showing up, and you have to approach them first before getting any kind of help. Then you're usually received by a person behind the counter, who probably doesn't know sh t about bikes or how they even work, and as soon as you ask him/her something, he/she calls someone else that actually knows something and then you get the help you need.
They have FB pages, all of them, and they use them to post discounts (just the %, never the prices), new inventory, group rides (which are lame, but at least they get people riding) and opening/closing times. You can ask the stuff via FB, but as soon as you ask for a price of something, or if they have something specific, or if they know this or that, all you will get is a "Visit us!", or "Call this number". Then you call, and no one answers.

I suspect this is because the person behind the counter is usually the same one that manages the social media.

So you got into the shop, and hopefully you're ignorant, have no idea, and have lots of money to spend, because if you're not, you won't get the help you're hoping for. If you know your crap about bikes, have a specific budget, or simply are looking for something specific, you will get bad stares, bad help or no help at all.
If you go and start looking at the products hanging there, you will soon get asked wtf are you looking for? And if you say: I'm just checking out the specs on this thing, then they won't help you anymore or get upset about you being wary and not buying the damn thing already.
I once asked an employee for a 68/73mm MTB BB for HTII interfaces. He had no freaking idea what I said, and showed me a road one, then a GXP, then a square taper, until I pointed my finger at one and said: That one!.

And don't get me started on bad mechanics with bad practices. If you are not cautious take your bike for a full service in our shops, you will definitely get:
-Not enough grease or lube in your bearings, so you will need to go to them again to service them again, and they get some profit.
-The wrong type of oil or lube in your components.
-Loose or overtightened bolts. Mostly Loose.
-Scratches.

And you may get....
-Lost valve caps
-Lost rim strip.
-More scratches.
-Dented rims.
-Bent rims.
-Underperforming shifting or suspension compared to before the service.
-Your cockpit setup all over the place because "you had it setup wrong". Same with the saddle. I have been told this in every single shop, no kidding.
-Contamined rotors and pads. Not all the time, but those times I received my bike like this, they didn't admit it and I had to buy pads again.


Basically its all about treating your customers like ignorant idiots that are easy to deceive, acting like the know it all, they are the bike shop, hence you have no right to say the opposite, and just plain steal stuff or be as stingy as possible to get the most profit out of your customers. This is understandable since most of my country's riders are that way, ignorant, posers, or the "just got into biking because its the cool thing now, hence I dont know sh t" type, so its a normal practice to deceive them, but still...

And pricing?
I'll give you this: $550 for a Transfer Performance post without remote or installation. Ha!

No test rides either. Not even parking lot. Just 3 offer bike fitting, and just one offers saddle testing. Could be worse, I guess.

Now, all I get from them are tubes and chain lube...but I did buy a chain once. Paid $50, and then I looked at the Amazon price and hated myself.

 @Deartist7: Do you need a hug?

 @sevensixtwo: Yes, lol.

 @COSrider:

What this guy said. And I'm sure they have beer!¡

 @Axxe: I have a pretty good kit of tools and do most maintenance on my bike but again, for something that I do extremely rarely or takes way too much time I am relying on my LBS.

 @PedalShopLLC: are you trying to convince people to not use your shop?

 @unrooted: Stop commenting here. You dont want to be caught dead in these notifications. They will ruin you. Trust me! RUUUUUUUUUN!!!!

 @chillrider199: Seriously everyone stfu its tiring

 @Austin-Smith: Me STFU? You STFU. All STFU.

 Zombie replies

 @dimitree: I absolutely agree. The vast majority of bike repairs and bike maintenance is very easy, and really only requires a few specialist tools that are easy to come by. There really is no good justification why people are not fixing their own bikes.

 2nd the opinion of adapting.

(full caveat: I don't own/operate a bike shop so my ass really isn't on the line) I was hoping bike shops would change/evolve/adapt from the traditional retail operations into a service based industry - primarily coaching/instruction and guiding operations. For instance, instead of the bike shops I encountered as a new rider - all trying to sell me a hardtail XC bike with ultra-aggressive head angle (read: 71 or 72*) - I'd like to see shops focus on instructing new riders and perhaps providing rentals to get people started.

 I think you nailed it man. I work in a shop, too, and I think it is all about that adapting. I could shops becoming a place to get your bike serviced, buy some small things and just being a chill place to hang out and drink some beer or coffee or something.

 @ET23: Thats exactly what we strive for at our shop, coffee, beer, bikes, and skis haha

 I think those who go service based will survive. They just need to come up with the good pricing chart like how much to charge for tire change or a fork installed if they brought in their own. Works for newbies and on all the other tedious greasy works. I for one don't mind if it's reasonable and means more time on trail. Not to mention a place to hangout and get post ride boasts.

 My LBS has a "meh" service and all the time I need some real bike part ( not flash lights, bottles or jerseys) it takes two weeks to get what I ordered.
The prices are very competitive comparing to internet but don't totally beat it.
Even so it is where all the locals meet each other and talk about their experiences. The bike shop organizes two urban night bike rides a week and usually once a month trail rides on Sundays for the different local groups.
The owner is very active in the community organizing events and even charity rides.
I can fix everything my bikes demands ( commuting, mountain bikes and bmx) and have all the tools for it in my home.
But in the end of the day the shop is where I go to fix stuff and talk to other riders.
The bike shop isn't in crises at all, even with all internet competition and many other LBS very near, the owner is thinking about rebuilding it and make it bigger.
So I think the LBS must to see what that specific area is in need and provide it.

 @CGalbreath: that's good to hear. I lived in Bend when I was in high school (pre-internet days!) and there were a couple great shops with friendly people working. I lived in Portland from 2009-2012 and would make regular trips to Bend for riding and the shops that I went too were horrible, IF you could get someone to help you then they weren't very friendly, or even knowledgeable. I went through Bend this summer and didn't even bother checking into any bike shops.

One thing I have a hard time with is bike shop employees always assume I don't know anything about bikes, but I not only have been riding mountain bikes for 26 years (longer than you've been out of diapers???), but I have access to the internet and I even worked at a bike shop myself in college. I do not seeing bike shops existing outside of destinations in the future.

One tip to all bike shop bros: instead of surfing the web, or jerking your friends off in the back corner, you should ask a customer : "how's it going? Are you doing some riding today?"

Typically the most I get is "need help?", I respond I'm good, and they walk off and play on the internet or talking to their bro and I look at the full MSRP items and wonder to myself if it would make any difference to me if this shop disappeared...

 The poll didn't ask the good question and many of us doesn't make a difference between SHOP and WORKSHOP.
Shop can only disappear because they are not concurential in terms of price & parts stock, because too much brand, standards, model.
Workshop will never disappear because even if you think you can do everything by yourself on your bike, this is not true and most of us will butcher the task because of wrong tools (and you cannot own all the tools you need to totally maintain a bike) and lack of skills.
Setting a derailleur is no big deal, changing axles bearings on your precious carbon ubermachine is another trick.

 @gnralized: the only thing I can't do on my bike is rebuild my rear shocks, and I wouldn't trust 99.9% of shops to touch mine.

 In the Shore to Sky corridor the change is happening/ed. I'm not going to name names, but the people in the know will know.

There are three dedicated suspension repairs shops (was four until corporate consolidation.) I know of two workshop only businesses, one or both will instruct people on proper bicycle repair. Businesses that cater solely to the instruction, guiding and rental of bicycles for all levels of cyclists.

Gone are the days of six figure inventory of "Bold New Graphic" bikes needing to be cleared out before MY next arrives. And good riddance, I say.

Where it makes fiscal sense to shop online, do it. Where it makes sense to support your LBS, do it. Where it makes sense to purchase a frame or complete from a company that is truly innovative and doesn't rely on colour changes year in year out for sales, do it!

 @ET23: Does having people chill pay the bill? I'm all for it, but the bills gotta get paid. Does service and small parts sales cover them?

 @endlessblockades: we may only sell a few bikes a month, but when they are almost all 10k builds it helps. And we have a full size cafe that's always busy too

 @CGalbreath: Glad to hear it - that type of hub business def needs to survive.

 Laketown, one of our local shops is that way. They are my shop of choice and they seem to do well enough (hopefully) being service driven. I think not having to be bound to forecasts and clearing out old inventory helps small shops.

If you're ever in the Salt Lake area, it's definitely worth it to go visit Will and Phill! Great guys, great service!

 @Extremmist: where im from, thats still a shop.
service: something provided
shop: place to purchase and/or have that service done.

 @jaycubzz: Maybe you use different words in Canada (workshop? garage?), but if I search for "car service" and "car shop" here in Europe, I will not find the same places.

 I work at a shop in telluride that doesn't stock much in the way of retail items. We have common things like tires or chains, and we can order things when needed; but most of our business is fixing bikes. Occasionally we'll sell a new bike or pimp someone's bike out, but that's not what our business relies on. The main goal is to make people stoked on their bike by ensuring everything is working as it should; suspension dialed, shifting adjusted, bolts tightened, etc. People want to ride their bikes in their free time, not work on them.

 You are correct sir. I'm service manager at a medium sized LBS. Shops will all eventually turn into 2 or 3 man/woman service centers that may carry a small selection of hybrids or kids bikes (simply to have something to offer when a bike is not worth repairing) and very very little clothing or merchandise. Unless however that shop is able to connect with the community and offer more an experience rather than just a place to buy things.

 True that. Recently was looking at a yeti sb6c. Local dealer told me I couldn't take it out of the parking lot unless I bought it. Fuck that. Borrowed my buddies 5.5c for an afternoon. Loved it. Bought a 2016 6c on backcountry for less than 4k . saved myself almost 2k on a similar spec bike.

 Yeah man, spot on @speed10. Every tall rider agrees with you. I can barely even find a shop that stocks an xl frame for my 6'5 ass. Sure, they can order one...if I'm going to buy it. So most of the time I don't even get the parking lot test.

 @topherdagopher: I get both sides of the issue. One you need a proper test of a bike before dropping the cash on a new bike. The other is if you don't buy the bike, the shop is trying to sell a ridden/used bike.

The good shops will purchase a handful of demo bikes that can be rented out for a small fee to be deducted from a bike purchase at a later time.
The good companies have demo events linked up through the local shop so one is able to ride something on familiar trails rather than taking a trip to Whistler, Moab, Vegas, Outerbike etc

 @gonecoastal: I worked a place that rented mid level Kona hei heis. At the end of the season we sold them cheap and got new ones. All said and done, we made the same, if not more money then a one time sale on the bike, and educated a ton of riders about the brand. How does anyone lose?

 @speed10: Exactly what I was getting at, the LBS is providing a service. @topherdagopher loses as he can't go demo a 6K bike from the shop only to turn around and purchase online for 4K. :p

Also if the bike model saw only "Bold New Graphics" as the year to year change the shop doesn't really have to sell said bikes off if they can't find owners for them.

 @gonecoastal: if the shop charges a modest fee for the demo, that covers the bike being in their demo fleet. They can then sell the bike at the end of the season for a decent discount, and because you bought it from a bike shop, you'd still be eligible for the manufacturers original warranty.

A local shop here does that, but they charge way too much for a demo, $250 for an afternoon ride is too much, and they'll only credit you for 1 demo on the purchase of the bike, and even then, only if it's the same model you demoed.

IMHO this is where manufacturers should step up. Provide dealers demo fleets at extreme discounts, especially the boutique brands like Yeti, Ibis, Knolly, etc. do what it takes to get dealers running demo fleets because that's how you sell more bikes. Good for the LBS good for the frame companies.

 @maxyedor: I agree! $250 is way too much, but it probably does stop people from show rooming the shops. They likely lose just as much business from people realizing that $250 on a demo isn't much if you can save $2000+ purchasing online.
I'm fairly certain WBP charges ~$150 CDN/day for a top tier DH bike in the bike park.

 @maxyedor: yikes!! $250 for a afternoon demo? I haven't personally rented a bike, not ever... and road trips I have done, I always brought my own bike so I never really pay attention to rental fees. $250 seems more like a bike resort rental fee.

 @PedalShopLLC: I think that's their justification, a similar bike would run you a couple hundred at a resort. its kind of understandable, they demo top tier bikes, but on the other hand, can you even get a feel for a bike in 4 hours? I can't, especially with tires I'm not used to and suspension I haven't tweaked on yet.

 This is exactly what I think is happening.

 In Australia the price disparity isn't that much anymore for good shops, they're pretty close to online pricing. I was an online shopper from about 06 until around 2011 but I've been back at the lbs since then, I just sometimes have to haggle a little if I think it's too expensive, that's pretty rare though. And that's worked in three different cities.

 In order for this to happen though the service of bikes it going to have to cost more. I work at a bike shop and the service side of things is only a fraction of what the bike sales are. However I think some of the low end bike shops may stick around because most people just entering the sport have know idea about what they want which makes buying online intimidating.

 @sampolicky: or people get paid less, or the business makes less margin, or you find savings somewhere else, or....theres lots of ways to run an efficient business

 @russthedog:
None of that equates to "efficient" - it's the start of death by 1,000 cuts.

 @sampolicky:

yes, 80% of our income in our shop is from selling bikes - primarily carbon road bikes for men and women

servicing actually only brings in small revenue, but is very labour intensive - yes it is profitable probably 75-80% margin on labour once costs are figured, but you have to do a lot of £80 services (typically 1.5 -2 hours) to generate the same revenue as selling a single road bike (i.e. £1299)

even if servicing is scaled up with multiple workstations and mechanics, its the same dirty, labour intensive operation that is profitable but does not generate large revenue. In London our largest chain retailer "Evans Cycles" tried centralizing their workshop operations with a base in South London - delivery vans collecting bikes from multiple stores, taking them to London Central Workshop (LCW) for servicing. They deskilled their in-store workshops - leaving a bike builder or junior mechanic), anything more complex than a basic (bronze) service was farmed out to LCW.

Many problems with customer communications, quality control of work being done remotely (returned to store not fixed) and high costs of operating multiple vans/drivers with fuel, congestion charging and time delays of driving in heavily congested city. This operation run for several years, they find it very hard to retain staff due to working conditions (crazy workload and poor management, unpaid bonuses,etc.), lost money and closed the facility. Customers hated the idea of their bike being worked on by some random mechanic, rather than someone they had met in store and built trust with.

When I ran one of the workshops in their big London store, we constantly got bikes back unfixed, with parts missing or damaged. We send a Cannondale DJ bike down there with boxed Fox 1.5" forks the customer had supplied, the bike comes back with original forks still fitted and Fox forks gone missing. We sent a time trial bike with deep section wheels, it comes back with a hole in the front wheel aero rim where it had been hung on a steel hook!

This was common...and cost lots in compensation and goodwill gestures. the forks eventually came back dirty with a cut steerer



In a good independent shop, bike fitting and servicing can bring in £50K-£100K a year between them, which is good business, but nothing compared to focusing on selling bikes.

 replied to wrong message

 @KeithReeder: I'm pretty sure finding savings and cutting costs is the definition of efficiencies

 @hampsteadbandit: that sounds f*cking horrendous but I can quite believe it ,I see bad service everywhere I look and people work in areas they have no knowledge of , ,this is apparent in many industries bike and other.
If I indeed do see any different in a shop both in or out of the mtb world I feel compelled to return .

 Price is only one part of the problem. Another part - in my opinion, much bigger - is the choice.
Imagine I want to buy a helmet with a removable chin bar.
When I look at Amazon, only from Bell I see 3x Super 2R, 10x Super 2R MIPS and 9x Super 3R MIPS. Each of them comes in 3 sizes, that's 66 helmets worth $10,000+ to have in stock, and that's basically just one model from one brand.
If you've seen the CRC warehouse, you must understand it's something that local bike shops can never compete with, they have neither the budget, nor the capacity.
And that has always been my number 1 issue with local bike shops - it wasn't the price, it was the fact that they simply didn't have what I wanted - either it wasn't in stock or they didn't sell that brand at all.

 Literally what i have been thinking everyday since i don't even know. I wish people actually knew the details of carbon manufacturing. After being involved in the industry a bit (building carbon racing sailing boats and sails), the prices these bike companies think they must charge are delusional. They aren't even using close to the most advanced carbon around.

That's just my rant for the day done.

 But bike prices really haven't skyrocketed like people say. I've done a little digging and except for a few brands the prices are more-or-less in line with inflation with a little wiggle room on either side.

 @cueTIP: the prices should actually go down as production numbers increase and technology gets cheaper.

 @colincolin: Yes, in a research stagnant environment. But we know that isn't the case and there are more manufacturers than ever competing in the same space so none of them (besides maybe Giant or Specialized) have reached the economies of scale you're suggesting they should have.

 agreed , you wouldn't mind paying so much if it was custom made for you by some highly skilled bloke in a shed somewhere but there not and it feels like a piss take,but no doubt I will keep buying expensive bikes ,what can I say?im a sucker and they know it,bastards te he he

 New mountain bikes are clearly unreasonably priced when you can buy a brand new dirt bike, with an engine, for cheaper than a new high end mountain bike.

 @Towner: And when you buy that moto you deal with a qualified salesman Go try to spend $7000 at a bike shop and your dealing with a teenage kid making min. wage, who only give 'deals' and good service to friends and people who bring gifts for the shop.

 Yeah, been biking for like 8 years and until mid season I had an absolute blast but I feel all the industry B.S. has been wearing me down on the long run. Biking is really fun but I'm not sure I still want to spend that much time (maintenance) and money on a sport when there are hundreds of much much cheaper alternatives that are just as fun.

 This. The local bike shop offers nothing to help me deal with the fact that I am being priced out of this sport. What is a box of donuts or coffees or "being a good guy" worth at my bike shop? $250 off a $5000 bike? 10% off parts and accessories? It doesn't really matter when I look under the couch cushions to have $2000 to spend on a bike every 3 or 4 years or $2-300 to spend on parts and accessories each year.

In my experience any retailer considers preferential treatment depending on your contribution to their revenue and I can't keep up with the spending expectations of the industry.

 Hope you can travel with a bike shop worth of tools and spare parts for trips

 No kidding, I love when I need a .50 part and I can't get an online retailer to stick it in a envelope. Makes a ton of sense to pay $9 for shipping and having to wait a week.

Yea shops have no use.

 @Tr011:
So what's your genius solution, then? To treat businesses like they're charities?

 @KeithReeder: funny, cause so many of these so called "self sufficient " riders think that they are a charity! I've been a mechanic at shops for 23 years. plenty of diyers coming in for advice, a bolt or other small part, thinking they shouldn't pay for it cause"bro, I ride too" picking my brain because their exhaustive knowledge is exhausted... shop owners paying me to fix bikes and help out the riding community, while these turds think they should pay for nothing and buy all their parts online to save some money. You look at someone's bike and tell them what's wrong with it and they don't even buy the part from you. I'm sick of people talking crap about the prices of parts too. CRC and jenson sell shimano for less than the shop pays from QBP. Bike shops have to pay rent, power, insurance, employees, stock. Charity my ass

 @KeithReeder: It's really simple,I've gone into several of the local shops and talked to the owners directly.
I've flat out told them that I want to support local business, but at the same time I can't just give money away.

I bluntly asked it they were ok with my telling them what I can get something on the net for and if they can come close, I'll buy it from them, if not no hard feelings.

One said no, so I've never been back. One of the others, I bought my Tallboy from and a bunch of other parts.

 Sometimes it depends on the product. I work in a shop, and I do all the ordering. Unfortunately there are just some product prices out there we can't compete with. What good would I be doing if I sold a tire for $49 that wholesales for $44. Or worse is the prices on some Shimano components. What you see on CRC a lot of the time is at, or slightly below, what most shops pay at wholesale.

 Literally, brah!

 @TwoWheelMike: why make 5$ per tire when you can make 0$?

 @colincolin: at that level, the margin doesn't even go to profit. $44 might be what the shop paid the dist., but they also have to pay to get it shipped, pay to keep the lights on so you can see it, pay an employee to put a tag on it, display it, try to sell it, etc.

Not worth ordering something you make $5 on unless you can sell 100 of them very quickly.

 I work at a fairly big shop in Germany right now and I find lower prices for basically everything except complete bikes and clothing at online shops compared to what we pay at wholesale.
That right there is the problem, we aren't overpriced because we want to be.

Then we can't buy as many of the entry/mid level bikes from some brands as we could sell while at the end of the year hundreds of those bikes are sold for half the price in the internet.

I feel like we are basically advertisement for the large bike companies.

All of this only regards mountainbikes and roadbikes though. Touring/trekking/city bikes are a whole different story and what we have to earn our money with even though there is a fairly big riding community around here.

 you're much more likely to pay someones porsche when ordering from amazon and in Germany for example wholesale prices for bikeshops are basically the same as online deals. I absolutely understand why people rather order from online shops though, dont get me wrong.

 @mirskeinereingefalln: Personally...I don't order from Amazon. Ebay for me until it doesn't exist anymore . I get what you're saying--but my point is that the bike shop owners should be content with a reliable truck and a decent house. They don't have to act like they cracked the retail code and live like (for lack of better term) Kings. Charging double + 10% isn't rocket science--it's just plain greedy.

 Block buster /Netflix

 @kevin267: Very true, but you cant digitally transfer bike parts

 @railin: ...yet.

 @kevin267: Blockbuster failed due to a technology innovation that opened up digital delivery methods. It wasn't fundamentally the same service being replaced.

 @railin: If you have a 3D printer, in theory, you can...

 Prostitution.

 @JVance: wank mags

 yes, I ran a sick shop in Surrey, England for nearly 5 years - we were bike riders, and actually had a 4 acre freeride bike park behind the store, and a massive dirt jump / pump track facility to the left of the shop front. The shop felt like a skate shop, but you got great service, great pricing (we were buying grey 15 years ago) and expertise as we all rode MTN, DH, FR, DJ, BMX at a good level.

It was one of those shops stuffed full of the good stuff, we'd have 25 frames hanging up, 30 pairs of forks on display, 100 pairs of disc brakes, DH tires, body armour, full face helmets. Cabinets of King, Hope, Easton, Thomson, Saint, Avid, etc.

Great shot of Rob Warner (Red Bull X-Fighters commentator) and Doddy from MBUK mag visiting the shop some years back. ep1.pinkbike.org/p4pb4968959/p4pb4968959.jpg

Riders would come from all over the UK to ride the bike park (250 a week during its heyday in 8 years of operation) and the shop did just under £1M in its last trading year - with 2 staff! We could sell 3-4 DH completes a week no problem. We'd build 300 pairs of wheels a year. could have 5-10 custom builds going out a week.

We eventually closed the shop due a change in tenancy for the bike park and shop from a corporate landlord. The owner had another shop and then moved to a big warehouse as his online operation ramped up.

I can't find those shops any more, its all soul less chain retailers with underpaid and under trained staff (who cannot afford to buy any of the stuff the shop sells) and some quite snotty independents.

There are some good LBS / independent shops out there, the strong ones with an enthusiastic group of employees, associates, riders, volunteers for organizing rides and trail days.

The days of selling some generic piece (i.e. derailleur) out of a box at retail price is somewhat over. From figures I have seen, the aftermarket is only 5% of Shimano's component manufacturing market, the bulk is OE which is what they care about, as long as the factory is busy / getting paid !!

We wouldn't get price parity with internet retailers unless Shimano strip out the middleman (in country distributor) and allow B2B purchasing with shipping from continental warehouse, so retailers can buy at grey pricing and make a small margin whilst offering pricing similar to internet retailers.

2017 will be the year of the incoming implosion, already with mergers, bankruptcies and compression, the bike industry is one of the last retail sectors to be turned over as has happened in general retail, especially fashion and food.

 @hampsteadbandit: that's the type of shop I'd like to see survive.

 @hampsteadbandit: sounds like it was a great shop to work and visit.

 @HaydukeLives: yes, in was great, at the time we were so busy we didn't really notice...but I've since worked for a number of chain retailers and independents and nothing comes close.

I realized after typing my reply earlier, it was a unique set of circumstances and lots of hard work that allowed the shop and bike park to come together. I guess a similar scenario with the original Cove bike shop in Canada. And a number of other notable shops based around different riding scenes, for example great stores at bike parks.

 Exactly brotha! Shops shouldn't look at the customer like they've just been handed a warm pice of shit to install on a bike just because they bough online and in your store, being bike active in the community is key marketing and you like you said shops should just be honest and do the right thing.

 Survival of the fitness! Bike shops/brands that adapt to the market demands will add value and continue to thrive beyond the adaptation away from purely growth based economics.

 Dude, forget Bike parts for a second. Have you seen how darn expensive beer is in Canada? Besides whatever exemption Unibrau has, cheap beer is at least double what it costs in the states. Good beer should cost about 10$ for a 6 pack. Really good beer, just a touch more. But cheap beer for 17$!?!?!

I'm more concerned for you than me. I hope one day you can be as fat as I am. ;P

 I work at a bike shop and often the online deals are much cheaper than what the distributor sells it for. The clue behind online shops is that you buy one thing with a huge discount, but then also add several other things into your basket and in the end the average discount over the total package is back to maybe 12%. With a lbs you walk in and buy only what you need, where as with an online shop you start bulking to save shipping costs over time or add extra things that wear out to your basket so you reach the amount of money spent where you get free shipping. Online shops may look very cheap but they trick you into shopping there and are not as cheap as you think they are if you look at your total basket.

 If you like the idea of no negotiation on price

 @frozenQ: I like the idea of purchasing at a reasonable price without having to negotiate.

 @johncee: intense and reasonable pricing don't belong in the same sentence. No room for negotiation with mec

 Thats something I hate about bike shops, why do I need to go in negotiating? (with some kid who has no training in sales and is making min. wage) If I buy online I can compare prices and know i'm getting the best deal. If I buy from LBS i leave thinking, "maybe if I bribed them with beer I could have gotten a deal"

 Some of us have LBS' that can't even justify their existence by offering excellent servicing, though.

 @KeithReeder: Oh I hear you and notice I didn’t say excellent. There’re some jobs that I just literally can’t do. At least if I drop it off they have to figure it out until it gets done.

 Those people are entitled, clueless, dix. Unfortunately, they also ride bikes. They also ride them in the streets of my city and act just as lame. F them.

 "15 or so years ago I used to race radio control cars"

Did you ever beat one?

 @KeithReeder: Thanks for the laugh--the discussion is a serious one and I needed something to smile at!

 off road younger scene in general, way less cash

small bike shops here, mostly catering to middle aged roadies, really look down on you when they realise you're not gonna spend £2500 on some italian bran carbon

 DIY is pretty much required in some sectors anyway. Pretty much all LBS seem to think that road bike group sets start and finish with Shimano. So the problem is more than just MTB maintenance.

I ned to buy a whole load of Campagnolo tools, which although expensive would be cheaper that shipping/taking my bike to a shop that can deal with more than the same-old-same-old.

Once I've done that, setting up t fix the MTB will be a mere bagatelle.

 given that pinkbike and the internet has the identical problem in killing print media, no

 I'm not sure if irony is the right term, but the banner is a reminder of a recent market move(You can't buy SRAM from Europe anymore) and makes the point that major brands(like SRAM) will be all too happy to destroy online markets like CRC(that ALSO benefit the sport) and enforce high profit MAP agreements(still legal in America, but illegal in Europe) on ideological consumers who are rich or naive enough to buy that red herring about the bike store. What is next.. the Buy/Sell section on this site? It is also stealing business from the local bike shop OR maybe buying parts online isn't why your bike shop is in fiscal trouble. Maybe it's the distributor network cleaving too much profit from local shops. Wasn't it Shimano that dropped MAP 40% this year.. amazing. You think they are still making a profit on bike shop sales? You bet! What is the difference between an OEM Pike and a retail Pike.. Rant over, now to go pay 30% more for a bag of rubber o rings because.. well I don't really know why. Does anybody?

 "I like hitting my lbs and smoking a joint out the back door with the boys and talking shit about how rad we were on our last ride"

Tsk, tsk - shouldn't you be at school?

 @KeithReeder: haha my school days are over!
But remember to never stop learning!!!!

 "Knowledge is a commodity too."

Great - but what happens when you have more of that than the guy in the bike shop?

 @KeithReeder: If I had a dollar for every time someone came into the shop I worked at with some small issue made much larger by themselves, I could still afford to work in that bike shop. If you truly know more than a mechanic who's been wrenching for years as a full time job, that's fantastic. People who actually know more than the pros are few and far between; their business wouldn't be missed as it is such a tiny part of the pie. The problem is your average Joe who doesn't want to pay full pop for a derailleur, buys one on Jenson USA, screws up the install, takes it to a shop, and bitches when they charge him to fix it. The shop probably would have thrown it on for free had he just bought it from them, but now to stay in business they have to charge the max labor fee. It's a vicious, self-perpetuating cycle.

EDIT: Grammar

 @millerstone: MY LBS is very reasonable and I don't bitch. Probably why I go there and why he's still in business.

 @millerstone: here here!! People want the knowledge of a professional mechanic but don't want to pay for it. I must say, compared to roadies, the "bro" factor amongst mtb riders is very high...dudes will take and take from small local shops and attempt to never spend a dime there. Won't even bring in some beer. Then wonder what happened when the shop closes because the owner was losing money

 When I walk into a shop with my YT, I expect to hear "GET THEE BEHIND ME, SATAN!!!!!"

I just want to pay for expert service - fork rebuild, brake hose/bleed, BB stuff. I'm fine with $100/hr, you are professionals. Just go a little easier (attitude, not price) on the struggling family dudes who bought direct because they have less than ZERO credit and were able to pay online through PayPal in installments for a dentist bike when they have less disposable income than a dental hygienist.

 @endlessblockades: this was forever ago so you probably might not get my response, but that's not what I'm referencing ( my own experiences). I live in a ski town, so the majority of the dudes looking for free help and parts are young twenty somethings living off their trust funds who don't want to cut into their weed and bar time money, while driving a nicer truck than me. I've advised parents with their mini shredder to buy parts online because I know that money is tight for them.I will fix dept store bikes for them doing 20-30$ repairs, and charge them 10$ because I want to see more people riding.just as want to see people who have built their lives around riding(most shop employees) being able to at least survive... I just want to see people who have the means to support their local shops do so, for the betterment of the sport we all love.

 @highcountrydh:

I ALWAYS bring beer, and thanks for being one of the good ones!!

 @endlessblockades: ????

 @endlessblockades: apparently that's what the pink bike site changes the beer emoticon to... question marks! So instead, Cheers To Beers!!!

 ^^^this, this is exactly what shops should do to survive and a LOT of self promotion on social media. A cafe stop is also a benefit

 I think that's a great suggestion. I would totally do a write up on my favorite shop if Pinkbike was interested in doing features like this.

 "nothing beats going into a bike shop cash in hand, pointing at the bike you want, and walking out with your brand new steed "

An opportunity which hardly ever happens, in the experience of many. I literally can't remember the last time any of my local bike emporia had ANYTHING that I wanted to buy, much less a whole bike...

 @KeithReeder: that sucks for you because my bike shop is rad!
which shop are you talking about anyways

 " I'd suggest that they've actually increased in recent years."

Based on what?

 there has been a considerable decline in retail stores in general, including bike stores. A number of chain retailers (Evans and Cycle Surgery) are closing unprofitable sites as leases come up for renewal. Independent (LBS) are closing as they are often 'zombie' companies and any sudden financial shocks (rent increase, tax bill, etc.) tip them over the edge.

Expect to see a reduction in numbers, especially in 2017. you should be able to find stats on industry sites like bikebiz and bicycleretailer

This creates room for strong independents and more focused big stores from chain retailers (who have been forced to increase wages the past 2 years to try and attract/retain staff in expensive cities like London), and stronger "brand" stores - giant have 24 brand stores in the UK already.

This reduction in LBS actually benefits the stronger players, Specialized and Giant want less retailers, but a more focused / committed relationship with the remaining retailers.

 @KeithReeder:
Pure speculation, that's why I'm saying I'd like to see some stats.

In my area at least there are far more bike shops than there ever used to be a decade back.

 @DC1988:

the data is out there if you search, there is a lot of retail data which includes the bike industry:

This is from BRC general retail: "Approximately 15 percent of retail sales are conducted online, and there are approximately 40,000 fewer shops today than there were in 2006."

www.bikebiz.com/news/read/independents-feeling-the-squeeze-warns-british-retail-consortium/019152

 "This is a laughable mountain bike centric poll"

Imagine that, on a mountain biking website...

 @KeithReeder: to be fair though when was the last time you saw a mountain bike only bike shop - apart from at a trail center? If the issue is bike shops thenmountain bikes are potentially only a small peice of the puzzle

 @browner "the always have the right part to fix your 2005 Marzocchi one"

That's closing next week due to lack of interest?

 @browner: MTB are what's up in many many shops. There are road and commuter-specific shops that don't know about, or care to be involved with, high-end mtb life.

 This is where I find it odd that there is not more criticism of bike and component manufacturers. The proliferation of standards makes it very difficult to stock spares. If disc brake pads were standardised for example they would be much better placed to carry spares...

 Time is important, though. Most shops don't have the high-end stuff on hand, and have to rely on a handful of distros for what we need. If it's not available at QBP, etc., then process breaks down, whereas the individual has access to a much more robust supply chain including, in many cases, the Mfg. Too many commas, sry. On another note, not long ago, I was in an LBS because a Pike seal got gored and i was willing to do a service to get it fixed. The dude said, "sorry, they're on backorder, order it online and we'll do the service" However the cost of the service, which includes seals, was not going to be adjusted. I did the job myself and the kitchen floor is still slippery and smelly.