[Updated with Company Statement] Orange Bikes Intends to Appoint Administrator
Orange Bikes has filed a notice of intention to appoint an administrator - in simpler terms, the UK bike company appears to have entered the legal process for trying to escape financial trouble.
The filing appeared on British legal case database caseboard.io December 22, 2023, just days after Orange announced that its factory team would be discontinued.
At that time, the company was already transparent about its efforts to cut costs. "With so much uncertainty in the bike industry, challenges around the future of the Enduro World Cup Series and the sheer cost of running a competitive Factory-level team, we’re pressing pause," the brand wrote in its press release about the team.
Still, the company has hopes for the future, supported by the possibility of the administration process helping to absolve Orange's debts. "We’ll return when the time is right," the team press release continued. "But for now, we’re ending on a high and will take a break to focus on our main goal of creating world-class bikes."
The brand's apparent debt has been accelerated no doubt by the same bike industry demand drop-off that has caused severe financial trouble for companies like Chain Reaction and Wiggle. We hope the appointment of an administrator can help the brand make whatever changes necessary to carry on.
Orange Bikes was founded in 1988 and has since made a stable of some of the world's most recognizable aluminum single-pivot bikes. We hope to keep seeing the iconic British bikes around for the long term.
Update: Monday, January 8
After the news broke over the weekend about the appointment of administrators Orange Bikes released the following statement.
 | In response to current speculation regarding the position of Orange Bikes and the recently filed Notice of Intention to appoint Administrators: Orange Bikes and its associated companies are currently working with Specialist Business Rescue Advisory firm J9 Advisory, with a view to restructuring the businesses in order to provide a viable platform to service our customers in the best way possible, safeguarding jobs and ensuring the continuation and strength of the Orange Bikes business moving forwards. Further details will be released as soon as possible. |
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Honestly, I used to play bike brand alphabet as there is damn near at least one brand, often several, for every letter of the alphabet.
Yet every brand is producing incredibly similar products with the most immaterial of differences, a millimetre here and 0.1° there.
I'm amazed there has been sufficient market for so many brands though we've also well known it's not the most profitable industry either.
It's been ripe for consolidation and rationalisation for a very long time and now market forces are really pushing it to happen.
It's OK though. There will still be plenty of bikes around and sufficient scale to ensure costs can be maintained and the overall industry sustainable.
So long as we all keep riding our bikes and buying kit it will be viable.
Now off to road bike forums to shout "you could buy a Ninja ZX-10 and have way more fun than the price of (insert new most expensive road bike company)"
Just went to look at pricing
£2995 for a 5 with NX spec
£6795 for a stage with gx level axs
Next ad over there's a trek slash 7 on 30 percent discount £2045 deore/xt mix
Where is the money headed do you think?
Orange is f*cked
Equally one could ask why so many people who buy other brands appear to be replacing them so often?
Is it marketing, all the bull about geometry and so on.
Every magazine is full of review of £10k bikes with some alleged new feature that is 1mm here or gnat's whisker of a degree elsewhere. Really, just who actually needs a 200mm dropper post?
It is a mature industry geared to people with more money than sense (even if it is on credit) who must have the latest fashion in biking. Does it really improve their riding that much?
Just look in the Buy & Sell section or eBay at the number of bikes less than a year or two old being sold.
Basically made it really hard and expensive to sell/compete in Europe.
Brexit was the best way to ruin UK export and slash a market size.
It also really frustrated me at the time of the vote there was a massive pro brexit campaign that told of all these wonders (which were bullshit) and yet there waas no campaign or real information put out by the 'stay' side as they just assumed people wouldn't vote to leave as "that would be absurd".
www.theneweuropean.co.uk/the-benefits-of-brexit-are-petty-pathetic-and-pitiful
They thought it would stop immigration.
I personally, love their bikes. They make you actually ride, you can’t just hang on like you can with others. Pros are, they’re seriously fun and fast when you ride hard, cons are they feel awkward and unflattering if you’re not on it
All of Oranges accounts are online and show an unhealthy ratio of stocks, debtors, cash and creditors for a significant amount of time. Predating covid, Brexit, Ukraine, global inflation etc. Even in 2016 it wasn’t in good health. Their liquidity has been terrible for years.
Outside of facts here is some opinion. I’ve seen less and less riders on Orange's for the last 10 years so really wasn’t surprised at this news. A sick company can stop innovating and is slow to react to trends as it’s just trying to keep afloat. Being slow to release an ebike etc was most likely a result of just not having enough room on the balance sheet to take any risk. Deffo a shame to see an old school brand go.
So feel free to shake your fist at the sky and shout "Brexit" but do some research and you will see the world is a more complicated place than just that.
Probably Starling ( your favourite) may survive as he is small and pretty much fabrics to order for his single pivots. Orange could have done similar with it’s in house FS bikes, rather than gone big on catalogue hard tails.
Another chap i know is also a higher up on the department for industry but owns quite a few manufacturing companies and commented that from the pool of university graduates he got to interview for jobs this year that none were actually ready to work in industry (his words were fit to work in industry), is it that its endemic in the workforce these days that theres a massive skills gap and a lack of labour resource???
Re single pivots, I have the privilege of riding with some ex WC DH racers, even on my SP they would spank probably 99% of riders down any given track. So it’s probably the rider not the bike!!
It may be that a multi link/ multi bearing bike might feel or even be marginally quicker even with the above riders, but for the average rider probably not so, and that ties in well with your view of perceived comfort/speed/ looks that the clever marketing of a bike projects to a prospective owner.
i think people are doing what they can to keep heads above water right now ....
Your exact words were probably already said by someone in 50BC. (In Latin without the bit about phones)
I have been track side on many occasions and watched a rooty tech DH section, it’s only the riders off the brakes that the suspension is working!!
PLUS energy (the base for everything) was cheap in the western world.
NOW: Youngsters want to work 2 or 3 days/week (!), ask for free transport, internet, vegan food etc.
PLUS energy is expensive, inflation is high and the rest of the world doesn't need western products anymore.
Either physics and maths is wrong or... it's gonna be interesting in the next 5-10 years.
Buyers don't want shimano, they want Bosch.
the fact company insolvencies are UP 52% since brexit will fly under the radar like a non stealth bomber
I’m happy with my Shimano motor on my Nukeproof Megawatt, and you see plenty of cheaper ebikes with shimano but if I were spending Orange e-bike money, I would want a Bosch
I have a soft spot for Orange having owned many,sold them for a living and known the people behind the brand.
It's annoying seeing people clamour over the likes of Starling etc whilst decrying Orange for exactly the same things because it's easier to make filing cabinet jokes.
I think you miss understood. I have no problem people seeking asylum. That's the only reason I can think of why people would vote leave.
SW and LN had a much more modest approach to the industry than the guy who now owns it, maybe and only maybe could have made a difference? Who knows
Big thumbs and predictive text don't work well together...
I get their thing is not everyone's cup of tea but its not like their success is without merit. They have their niche, you're not in it. Its all good.
Yeah they got a break with DiRT but don't a lot of success stories start with a break?
(I don't have a starling or would buy one - probably for the same reasons as you, but I respect what they have done).
Damn straight, it might not be “The cause” but without it Orange would have a better chance. That’s undeniable.
Orange may well have had many issues, its amazing that they kept going with products built in the UK for so long, when pretty much everyone else manufactures in asia, but Brexit & the damage it caused was something that was always going to put a business like Orange, who did manufacture here, at risk.
"Our sires' age was worse than our grandsires'.
We their sons are more worthless than they:
so in our turn we shall give the world a progeny yet more corrupt."
Horace ((Quintus Horatius Flaccus), "Odes" III, vi, l. 46, published circa 20 BC, Rome
Graffiti from Pompeii is also a great source of reflection on humanity's commonality across time
kashgar.com.au/blogs/history/the-bawdy-graffiti-of-pompeii-and-herculaneu
But how did they lose if that's what they wanted to happen.
Do you honestly think the government does whats best for the country?
Or will they do what best for themselves?
V. Putin says thanks btw.
The Leave campaign money donations were obfuscated by a loophole that donors to political parties in Northern Ireland do not need to be disclosed. This is documented by several high profile news sources and democracy watchdogs.
Likely to be foreign intervention in UK democracy, I guess we'll find out who in 46 years time.
Spoiler: Russia or China
To be honest I pay no attention to politics anymore. I don't even bother voting now.
They all lie and don't do anything they promise in their campaigns so what's the point.
We're all screwed anyway so I'd rather not know just how screwed we are and try to enjoy my life while I can.
Look at the US, that's where we'll be if we don't learn something from Brexit.
PB news: Orange is going out of business
Comments: BREXITTTTTT
that's why uk manufacturing was so opposed to it
the only pro Brexit economist Patrick minford admitted that uk would have to move from manufacturing to service economy (especially if he got the hard Brexit he wanted
in their ears while humming the mantra "I voted the right way, everything is so much better now".
You have a short memory, Orange Five Factory was £5700 in 2019, Five Evo Factory is rrp £6095 at Sunset Cycles (can't check web site as it's undergoing maintenance.....) so the prices were always high.
Orange was always going to be on the ropes when the market took a plunge especially if they have invested in production in the UK.
I didn't vote Brexit but you guys make me laugh.
That will be the politicians starting with Cameron.
Then politician's on all sides of the EU/Politic argument that bickered for 3 years to ensure just about the worst possible outcome.
Brexit is a contributory factor but there have also been two other events that have arguably have had a far higher impact.
Energy prices: this started when a sustained period of low wind output resulted in Germany using most of the gas reserves to generate electricity pushing prices up even further than the usual season change. This was followed by Putin invading Ukraine have a global impact.
Covid: This caused a short term boom in sales at a time when supply chains were also messed up, this took stock out of the supply chain that was not replenished. The result was that everyone then struggled for anything to sell. The really big manufacturers got first choice to the detriment of everyone else.
This is the point that all those who blame those who voted leave conveniently ignore. There is also the assumption that anyone who did not vote would automatically have voted remain,
The demographics are interesting, as age decreases so does turnout yet as age decreases support for the EU increases. Sadly ranting on social media does not count. The only vote that counts is the one in the ballot box. In 2016 28% could not be bothered to get off their backsides and vote.
Equally the remain campaign arrogantly thought a win was assured. Then when it looked dicey instead of taking on the advantages of the EU they just attacked the leave campaign. That was mind-bogglingly stupid and probably cost them a narrow win.
We’ve now got a gov full of planks !
I agree with others here that Brexit as a single factor probably didn't kill Orange, but it certainly didn't help them survive either.
Small bike brands, even those that have made good business decisions, are going under because of the corrective actions of bigger brands who benefited from the pandemic but managed their companies with short term gains in mind.
Sure - the FS stuff is built in the UK, but needs the same parts as the Far Eastern stuff to build, so same story, and the bulk of their line is 100% sourced from Asia.
Brexit has had other issues relating to export for them, but the Covid boom/bust is likely the biggest factor along with the fact that the big brands over-ordered horrifically at that time and destroyed the market value of bicycles by slashing their prices to clear stocks. They're still doing it now. Small brands like Orange over-ordered to a far lesser degree, but pay the price of the big brands more unrealistic order volumes.
100% right about the range lacking focus though.
Remember watching videos of Peat raging down the mountain on the 22x bikes when I was a kid.
If only it would not be so hard and expensive to get one in Europe …
I've owned 2 Orange bikes, always secondhand because they "never compromised" on price.
Great bikes, I really mean that, but very marmite in their appeal as a brand, and in an industry that is innovation led they had a risky approach by seemingly sticking to their aesthetic.
It's f*cking grim times for Orange employees. All the best to them.
I’m just playing Orange. You know I love you.
In addition they keep trying to sell us things no one asked for.
Do we need automatic transmissions or anti-lock brakes? Do we need electronic suspension?
I'd rather the option of simple, reliable, durable suspension instead of something that pairs with my phone/watch/gps.
On a product that you make a £1500 turnover from as a manufacturer, unless you sell a massive amount, you arent surviving today
The prices for EVERYTHING is insane, our grocery bills have almost doubled.
What people forget is the "majority" of riders are commuters amd recreational, who prop up cycle companies turnover.
These riders have little skill and want the easiest solution possible. An auto shifting e-bike with abs is an absolute wonder for this rider.
MTB is just a tiny little niche corner of the industry (which is why most pro riders need a second i come compared to road or cx where they make a mil euro for turning up).
With MTB being a luxury hobby, when times are tough, the disposable income shrinks and the niche suffers.
The bikes may last 10 years but it appears from the numbers that are up for sale second hand there is a substantial market for those who have the money and want the latest "on-trend" machine.
That they cost the price of a cheap car is beyond comprehension.
However in situations where there's secular industry trouble administration/Chapter 11 almost never results in good outcomes. Breathing room from creditors doesn't solve the many serious issues of oversupply, crippled margins and (largely) fixed costs.
Hope for the best for employeea
Awww, cmon gang, no one in their right mind finds Orange bikes attractive.
They might ride okay, but very few folks are looking to buy a single pivot bike, esp one that looks like an Orange.
Not a surprise.
Looked fast standing still.
Times change, but single pivot’s are still winning World Cups. In fact, thinking about it, single pivots (and linkage driven SP’s) have probably won a lot more races than DW / VPP (etc) bikes over the years.
Nah, I’ve ridden single pivots, got one now (Zerode Pinion), they can ride okay esp with a gearbox, but to say they’re as good as as linkage driven suspension is pure silliness. It’s nice they’re are people who like Orange, but that doesn’t mean they’re bikes are all that … their current situation kinda begs the question.
Again, single pivots (or linkage driven variations of single pivot designs, like the Trek Session or Commencal Supreme) have won more WC rounds than any “other” linkage design out there - they clearly work, and really well too. So how is that silly? I genuinely don’t get it..
Can can be either a straight up single pivot, or a linkage driven SP. Either way, historically that’s where the most wins historically lie, not with DW or Horst style designs.
As to the linkage driven SP being better than a straight up SP design? Sure, perhaps. Maybe. But that doesn’t invalidate my original post.
And as a side note though, and just off the top of my head, Steve Peat won a bunch of WC rounds on an Orange DH bike, and Greg Minnar took a WC overall back when he rode an Orange 222/223 as well - it’s not like it’s never been done.
The chap up above made reference that he believed EITHER set up to be inferior to other linkage designs on the market.
I commented, as an example of why I don’t believe that to be the case, that EITHER single Pivot OR SP with linkage have taken more wins at WC level, vs any other linkage design. Which suggests that NEITHER is a particularly inferior design.
And that’s it.
So ask yourself, would you invest in Orange, either as a rider looking for a bike, or an investor looking for a good opportunity?
Yeah, that’s why they’re in protection.
@Davebob 100% agree. But will add that mere mortals need all the help they can get...not the same help as a WC racer, but we definitely need our bikes to be helping us out as much as they can. Need is a strong word, but you know what I mean.
To answer your questions though;
Would I buy an Orange? Sure. In the same way I’d buy a Curtis XR650, a Starling Murmur, or any other similar UK made single pivot.. I’m from North Yorkshire (albeit living in TX right now) and winter riding in the UK does lend itself somewhat to a single pivot from a maintenance perspective if nothing else. It’s nice having two bearings to deal with, vs 16-20 odd…
Supporting domestic or local manufacturing is something I try to do where possible anyway. Right now that means I’ve been buying quite a bit of US made stuff, whereas in previous years back in the UK, I might have bought less US made stuff.
And like someone else in this thread mentioned, if bike/application is right & the shock is well set up, then any of the various suspension layouts we’re talking about aren’t exactly likely to hold the likes of me back much anyway! Generally found modern bikes as a whole “work” pretty well in that regard. I’m as happy riding straight SP designs all the way through to DW and whatever else. I’m fortunate to own a bunch of bikes with different suspension “systems”, and ANY given suspension configuration isn’t what makes or breaks a bike as a whole, at least not for me.
As to your second question… honestly, if I were an investor seeking a meaningful return, I wouldn’t be looking to put money into ANY UK cycle company / brand right now.
The global bike industry isn’t doing fantastically, and the UK bike trade seems to be particularly under the hammer.
So, would I invest in Orange right this moment? Doubtful, if I was looking for a decent return in the near future, but as a general statement that’s no more or less true than of any other UK bike trade entity.
Personally I think there is still a market for a selection of simple & well designed, domestically (UK) produced single pivot frames, built to a good or very good standard. Whether that’s something made and sold by folks like Orange, Curtis, Starling or A.N.Other might change a bit over time, but fundamentally I think a market for that kind of frame / bike will remain for a while yet.
Side note - went to Spider Mountain bike park at the weekend, here in Texas, and saw three Starling’s in the lift lines. I was chatting to the owner of one (who’d previously had a bunch of issues with two different multi link carbon frames from two US based brands) He commented that he was on the second year now with the Starling, and the original bearings. Riding the same trails as he did before, and just as quickly too. He was really happy with the bike.
Now I know that’s just a lone story and relatively meaningless on it’s own, but I guess it somewhat highlights the rough point I’m trying to put across. Just my $0.02 at the end of the day.
The main talking points behind that are mentioned all over the comments thread here, often succinctly & articulately put. Everything from a saturation & proliferation of brand selection and stock on the current market (eg BOGO Kona’s anyone?), to Brexit fallout, COVID fallout, raw materials & shipping cost increases.. ad infinitum.
I don’t disagree that Orange’s (to some eyes) seeming lack of change, particularly in design & materials, would indeed deter a chunk of potential buyers. But that’s been the case for ages now; I think there’s more going on with regard to the current situation, leading to a ‘perfect storm’ of poor conditions for Orange and hence this outcome.
Personally, I wish them well - hope they come out the other side of the process in good shape to carry on in some form.
I guess not many, so probably their view of any bike/suspension design is immediately non valid.
Is the suspension tune of Goldstone at 60 kg wet through stock, if it was I guess he would be bucked off at the first kicker !!
It also, as a percentage of the overall bike purchase is a small amount.
It’s now seemingly started settling and going back down a little bit still around double pre covid.
It’s unlikely to be the reason though, other aspects of inflation (wages, huge power cost increases, etc) and the facts of surging interest rates, Brexit and the covid boom / contraction causing bikes to be sold off at 40% of RRP everywhere will be the more likely factors,
I saw tooling plates go up from 25 to 101 quid
electricity rocketed
rent rocketed ,the landlord has cost increases too
cutting tools 10mm end mills now 75 instead of 25
everything went up in price
luckily i landed a MOD job and said adios to the shitty bicycle world
I really do not see at this time what the value is in domestic manufacturing at this time and this is from someone who was someone who did
simply put no one cares where its made when COST when people have less money to put food on the table and buy luxury goods
The virtue signalling ends and the support dwindles in the real world when the hunger bites if you will pardon the expression
It’s a shame the carbon marketing and “meh” brands saturated the market over the last few years.
Orange (and latterly Starling) stand out to me as making some of the best full sus bikes to come out of the UK in quite a while - handmade by folks getting a fair wage, for a simple and durable product ideally suited to getting covered in mud / grit and thrown around the woods.
It’ll be a real shame if they don’t continue in some fashion.
when i first heard of this i looked to see what they were selling and how much it was.
27.5 hardtail, base spec, entry level rockshox fork, deore gears, sunrace cassette and cheap clarks brakes.
£2200
i'm not supprised they've had trouble getting things out the door with prices like that.
I like to think I have style but then I am 58
The bike industry seems to be all up in the air at the moment and then with the UK having extra things like Brexit, high business rates and then bring one of the most(if not the most) expensive country for energy.
Maybe scaling down the number of bike models they produce might help?
I still have my old skool 1999 Orange Ms-ile.
All I will say, it was always a little tedious reading reviews on new Orange product that one year increased this by that much, and that by this much, at the same time as making those longer, and that bit 3mm shorter.
Always sounded like a little merry go round. Real shame, I do really hope they get saved somehow.
Bugger, I gave my opinion !
The sale prices won’t last forever, 2025 it’s back to RRP for who survives.
Sad but true unfortunately, you can blame brexit all you want, but even people in the UK don’t ride Orange anymore cos they just aren’t ‘cool’
Nicolai and other small manufactures who actually fabricate their own frames seem to sensibly do it with tubes and so would I. You can squish them, bend them and weld them into a frame shape without all the expensive faffing orange do.
One model, 4 or 5 sizes and as much adjustably of travel, chainstay length, head angle etc as you can put on a simple single pivot design.
Who wants to crowdfund me?
Taking the UK and Germany that was 20% & 19%, to a 1% difference.
Now for manufacturers there is more paperwork however I simply struggle to understand why this is so complicated for these organisations to complete. There will be some duty to pay but it is usually minimal.
What people persistently refer to as "customs tariffs or duty" is simple the VAT that is now paid at the point of entry not the point of sale. Unfortunately it occurred at a time when prices increased for many other reasons so people just blame Brexit.
I've seen bike & component designs fail only to turn up again a few years later touted as new all over again.
IMHO this current situation has been brought mostly by greed & shortsightedness.
go look at who is cutting racing/sponsorship budgets to $0, offering insane BOGO deals, etc....
Basically now its a case of who has enough capital saved up, or investment available to ride things out. Each time another brand falls, that frees up some market share and eventually things will balance back out. But at the current clip, that'll be 1-2 years away.
Kona being picked up by PE means they should be good. Evil looks big enough to be OK. But big can be a liability too. Other indie outfits like Forbidden, Knolly etc...here's hoping they have enough fuel in the tank ($$) to ride out the storm.
If they were truly in it for the collective, they would have supported their fellow competitors with sharing some of the spoils. But then the raging capitalists over at Giant/Spec/Pon would have eaten some of their lunch so kill or be killed.
Nice guys can be ruthless business people too.
Failing to do so…. That’s not raging capitalism at work, just normal free trade market behavior surely?
They've more than doubled their staff size in the last 18 months, have expanded their facilities and launched two new models in one season. Not to mention having one of the highest-ranked EDR squads last year... How is that in any way downsizing and cutting costs?
And while a bike shop could have millions in stock, I'm sure it's worse for car dealerships.
Seriously though, sucks to keep hearing about the demise of cool small brands.
[I haven't finished my coffee yet]
Offer custom geo builds, lean into "Made in Britain"
My ideas.
it snaps ,weld it wrap it sand it paint it ...stronger than new ...put stickers on ......good for another year
Out of curiousity do you own or run a company?
do you understand the challenges that the last couple of years placed on businesses, and the decisions they had to make to be able to continue to sell products, keep people employed, so they could feed their families?
Or do you have some sort of insight into Orange, to provide the kind of comment you made?
Most families are living paycheck to paycheck, and are 3 poor decisions away from homelessness, but you know, prolly no big deal owning, running, and maintaining a business for 30+ years.
Good thing your here to kick a horse when its down...
Even though sales for small companies may have been at an all time high, so were operating costs. I feel for all of the great industry employees (and surely some of the owners too) who fall into these situations for any number of reasons.
I can't speak for any specific company that has incurred hardships in the last 1.5 years, but I doubt it's lack of attention and a whole lot more to do with a brutally tough situation sweeping the industry. Unfortunately, the smaller guys have less ability to cut significant costs (and aren't sitting on larger reserves) compared to the bigger companies who have to be struggling themselves as we watch layoffs happen.
No one saw this coming. No one had a plan to navigate it and there was a million moving parts so making a plan was futile as things changed all the time.
Unless a company had someone on staff that understood bullwhip effects and a clogged supply chain, they were all doing the best they could in uncharted water.
You deserve to go tits up next time a lippy double has kick and bucks you OTB
There's actually no stupidity required.
If there's a massive rush to place orders because of unprecedented demand due to a global pandemic and all your dealers and customers are yelling at the top of their voices for more bikes. You either place orders yourself to ensure your own supply (and join everybody else in ordering on unprecedentedly long lead times) or you don't order and now you risk not getting any components for the next 1-2 years... I think you'll agree you need to place orders.
Other brands are over ordering and this leads to a glut in the market once it all calms down. They're now selling their bikes 20-40% reduced to clear their stocks. If you're a company that didn't over order that impacts you too because if a Specialized Enduro is 30-40% off who is going to buy an Orange Stage 7 at full price? Some people but not many. Most customers want the best spec for the least money. That means you have to drop your prices too and even if the whole-market demand is roughly the same as pre-pandemic, back then prices were holding up, whereas now you're selling for a price that doesn't even cover your costs because you need to slash your prices to sell your normal volume.
Also, throughout the pandemic all your dealers (which is mostly comprised of independent bike shops) are placing big orders with you and want them filled and they will go elsewhere if you can't fill them. Then, later, they all call you and want to cancel their orders...
I'm sure you can see how that's hard to manage. If you didn't order and didn't make some money in the pandemic when the demand was there you're stupid. If you hold off and don't order as much you're still f*cked on the other side because of what the rest of the market was doing. I'm sure you can see that's a very hard situation to navigate.
Good explanation though - it should be a ‘sticky’ at the top of every news story of the same nature.
So you end up sat there with a warehouse full of part finished bikes that you can’t sell during the covid boom. Then when you finally start getting bits like drivetrains to finish them the boom is over and you’ve got a bunch of last years bikes that no one wants anymore.
That’s also why we saw so many new designs not being released.
One option where everyone is competing on price just to keep the lights on is too innovate hard and release a must have product that is sufficiently better than your competitors to warrant full retail price.
@b-roc
@mitch7mtb
guys, its friggin great to see people come to the comment section with some intelligent remarks, some insight, and a little bit of compassion to outweigh the negative, shortsighted comments that accompany these types of articles.
I cant explain the ease at which some try to distill the intricacies and complications that go along with running and maintaining business at the level that Orange, or others do.
Its a 35 yr old company, that operated internationally, had some of the best racers of all time on their payroll, and supported multiple racers, races, and community efforts. Its a sad day to see them in trouble, and I hope that they can come through it in the end..
The bike industry is still the worst bullwhip in the supply chain I've seen so far. Second on the list (and just getting back to resupply stage so watch out for next year) is the automotive industry. Both of these are due to the complexity and lengths of their respective supply chains. Auto is more vertically integrated, so they had less bottlenecks making massive complicated clogs. But the semiconductors were outside their control and so you didn't get options on vehicles you ordered for 2+ years.
All that to say: Orange, CRC, and any other company that is hitting hard times right now isn't there because of their own bad moves. They had business plans that got put into a ridiculous supply chain scenario and like Tyson said: "everyone has a plan, until they get punched in the face".
I guess being a slightly smaller brand allowed them to be more flexible with customers without the customers getting upset.
I’d imagine anyone buying from orange would probs be less happy that their bike didn’t have a drive train haha
Say Cotic as you mentioned before you can literally email Si or sane with Joe at Starling, Sophie at pace etc and chat about what bits they can or can’t supply.
Hopefully something gets sorted. Lot of people slate them for being a single pivot but the last few bikes were all linkage driven. Not saying there’s owt wrong with a single pivot if you’ve got a decent shock and know when to brake
Shocking if that's true. People have already lost (and are still losing) their livelihoods at all levels of the bike industry because of this horrendous bullwhip effect. False demand and false reporting of demand is largely to blame. If this is true, the suffering of these people and businesses caused in part by sales reps being complete tools.
Retailers, Distributors, Brand and Factories in the bike industry are all really hurting currently.
From what I have seen it was more a case of shops, brands, manufacturers just trying to fulfill unprecedented demand in an industry that’s realistically poorly organised in terms of supply chain.
I hear now it’s a struggle to get what you want again from Taiwan as they have reduced working hrs and pulled credit terms.
I’m not going to defend HLC right now though, their behaviour towards staff and suppliers lately has been appalling.
Gonna be a hard 2024 for a lot of them, get through it though and 2025 is round the corner, back to RRP and with a lot less competition.
The demand was real at that point, we did the numbers but it decreased, we rolled the dice knowing we would use the material anyway and didn’t want to run out of stock if demand maintained.
I think you are moving down the path of deception etc when really it’s just business - people want to sell.
"place an order 2x what you need cause you're only likely to get half of what you order"" - terrible business practice.
Sales people do this all the time anyway, it’s literally their job.
Downvote if you need to feel better. Doesn’t change reality.
nymag.com/intelligencer/article/covid-lockdowns-big-fail-joe-nocera-bethany-mclean-book-excerpt.html
From an economic perspective, all the _current_ woes of the bike industry lie squarely at the feet of lockdowns. It is the root cause of a broken supply chain, huge spike then lull in demand and creator of many inflationary pressures from all directions. If you're a British company you have the compounding effect of Brexit, the Ukraine war and terrible governance since Covid to add to your woes.
"In this case, Trump happened to be right; it was important. But by this late stage in his presidency, most Democrats assumed that anything he said was a lie. If Trump said schools should reopen, that was reason enough for them to assume they should stay closed. The sense that opening up was a Trump-endorsed policy seems to have energized opposition to it in blue America — even as data accumulated that the harm being done to the country’s children outweighed any potential benefit."
It's obvious that lockdowns are the primary culprit here. Not to say Brexit doesn't play a role, but, we're seeing the same effect across the board. In fact, Orange is outlasting many "boutique" in the US, where covid related supply chain and economic problems are not as severe (though still bad). But, because covid became such a warped/political/emotional issue for a critical mass of people, support for lockdowns became synonymous with a certain "team", which attempted to distinguish itself as the learned expert class opposing the maga 4chan set. I quietly get a chuckle when the PB commentariat descends on me as a Trump supporter. Does truth even matter anymore, seeing as I have never voted for him, nor do I think he's qualified to be POTUS? But it is fascinating to watch the psychology of it all play out.
If you don’t then sophisticated suspension is probably lost on you dude !!!
..and yet someone on the comments still blames brexit. Class. What next Thatcher?
You have problems with people who don't agree with you.
You should get that looked at.
Leftie spunk bubble
Are you capable of understanding outside of absolutes, understanding facts?
I imagine not, it’s all about ‘da feeling of sovereignteeeeeeeee!’
Mitmot.
As I’m not in the EU though I fail to see how that challenges the fact that Brexit has reduced export value.
Where has your little brain sent you with this chain of thought?
I'm sure that makes sense to the great thinkers of our time such as yourself.
Were you breastfed in to your teens or something?
Brilliant logic from the brexiteer pioneers there!
Breast milk is good for the immune system.
Logic.
Do you struggle to make friends?
Again, try to understand nobody is entirely blaming your beloved Brexit for such issues, just understanding the fact that it has contributed negatively.
I have a few brexiteer friends, I’m not silly enough to let politics get in the way of relationships but then they aren’t feverishly supportive like yourself and one is a little upset about how hard it is for him to import and export his products to the EU since the implementation.
High blood pressure is the silent killer, learn to relax a bit maybe.
You've mentioned brexit in every post.
You should just let it go.
Namaste.
It was talk tv not gb news.
I pay no heed to any "news" outlets, who needs a daily dose of depression?
you remainers are all the same....just beaten, enslaved dogs that can't fathom having to make your own choices, and be free.
Walter Mitty bullshit wannabe.
maybe probably 30+ somethings with disposable income , those folks from my now limited knowledge (all my friends are buying e bikes , cant say anyone has kept their trail bike), the ones who dont want to admit we will never be as good as were were buy the lightweight ebikes (guilty), i think its kind of a denial mechanism and a e bike does it for them
i for one welcome the help up mortimer road to my house after doing a lap of the peak district
I am going to have to sell the ferrari if things get much worse
How do you know they not had no end of battery problems?
How do you know that they recently sacked there marketing manager?
How do you know that they haven't laid of a load of staff?
Nothing to do with Brexit but loads to do with the covid BOOM and BUST.