Exclusive: Richie Rude & Jared Graves Failed Drug Test at EWS France

Nov 26, 2018
by Mike Levy  



May 13th was the final day of racing at the third round of the 2018 Enduro World Series in Olargues, France. It also happened to be Mother's Day, as well as the day that full-scale anti-doping testing took place — a rarity on the EWS circuit until now. Nine riders were called into the French Anti-Doping Agency's (AFLD) control, and we can now confirm that at least two of them returned an Adverse Analytical Finding (AAF) from the tests in Olargues.

Two-time champ Richie Rude and one-time champ Jared Graves have both confirmed to Pinkbike that they tested positive for Higenamine (banned in and out of competition) and Oxilofrine (banned in-competition) at the third round of the series in France. They say that their failed tests were due to accidental ingestion.

The AFLD has not yet issued their findings publicly. Below is everything we can confirm so far.




Richie Rude is back There was no stopping him once the stage wins started piling up.
Richie won the EWS event in Olargues, France, but would later test positive for Higenamine and Oxilofrine at the post-race French Anti-Doping control.


9 male EWS racers were tested in Olargues, France

Elgan Delteral, Judicial Director at the FCC (Fédération Française de Cyclisme), told Pinkbike that tests were administered by the French Anti Doping Agency (AFLD) on May 13th, the final day of competition in Olargues. While he wouldn't name the individuals tested, Delteral did say that nine were called into doping control post-race. A spokesperson for the AFLD also declined to name those tested, but they did say this: ''We can confirm that riders were tested by AFLD at this competition. This is the only information AFLD can share.''

On the women's front, Enduro World Series champion Cecile Ravanel told us that she was not tested. Actually, multiple sources say that no women were — for doping control, an officer must be present during sample collection, and word is that no female officer was available.


20 minutes after the finish and this is the glamorous life of the best riders in the world as they await their turn at the anti-doping station.
Other pro men wait for their turn at the AFLD's doping control station on May 13th.


So, who all got tested? Our own Dave Trumpore was on-site and photographed four racers awaiting their turn: Adrien Daily is seen sitting on the floor closest to the camera, and José Borges is on the bench next to him. Greg Callaghan is in the middle, and then there's Rude on the end of the bench, still wearing the gear that he won the race in. Those four told Pinkbike that they were tested, along with Graves and Martin Maes. Callaghan, Dailly, Borges, and Maes all confirmed that they were not notified of any adverse analytical findings from that test.

With two riders returning AAFs and four more confirming their tests, that leaves three other riders who have yet to confirm they were tested and, more importantly, confirm that they didn't fail.


back in the mix and only 11 seconds out of the lead Jared Graves was happy with his day.
Graves didn't have much success throughout the 2018 EWS season and was then notified in late July of his failed in-competition test from France. Things would go from bad to life-changing when he was diagnosed with brain cancer in September after suffering multiple seizures.



The drug testing process takes time

Here are the basics of how it goes down. Once the AFLD's WADA-accredited laboratory has tested the samples and an adverse analytical finding (AAF) is returned, the athlete must be notified according to code 3.4.3 in the WADA's own guidelines. The athlete can also request an analysis of the B sample (code 7.3) to happen within seven days of the A sample's examination. Both Rude and Graves declined the right to have their B sample tested, opting to accept the results of the initial test instead.

If there is a "non-negative" test result, the AFLD (in this case) will ask the athlete to deliver a satisfactory explanation. If the athlete can't deliver adequate justification, they'll be provisionally suspended. Rude and Graves' positive tests were for specified substances, which apparently allowed them to avoid provisional suspension through the remained of the 2018 Enduro World Series season.

It's at this point that sanctions will be recommended by WADA, and code 10.13 in the guidelines says that ''A mandatory part of each sanction shall include automatic publication...'' And that ''The following information shall be made public by the [Results Management Agency] within 20 days from the decision date: Athlete or other person’s name; sport; anti-doping rule violated and the prohibited substance or prohibited method involved, if applicable; the consequences (sanction).''

What all that means is that if a racer has been found guilty, the public will eventually know the facts behind the case. This is noteworthy because another racer got popped at a Megavalanche race years ago, long before the EWS was a thing, but his name was never made public. If that sounds like he escaped trial-by-public-opinion, it's because he did exactly that. The rules were changed in response to that case by the revised WADA code in 2015, and now names can only be withheld in "exceptional" circumstances.

Obviously, with Rude and Graves confirming their results before the AFLD and WADA make their announcements, this doesn't apply to them. But, it may apply if anyone else did in fact test positive in Olargues.
What are Higenamine and Oxilofrine?

Higenamine is used to treat asthma and is also part of the Beta2 agonist class of drugs. Like all Beta 2s, it's totally banned in and out of competition by WADA. It works by relaxing the muscles that control the airways, letting the lungs take in more oxygen and boost performance. Higenamine is also used as a fat burner in dietary supplements.

Oxilofrine is a stimulant and amphetamine that's known to increase focus and alertness, and it can reduce reaction time by encouraging the body to produce more adrenaline. This has the added benefit of boosting endurance, increasing the oxygenation of the blood, and burning fat. It's banned in-competition.

Both are 'Specified Substances,' a subcategory of prohibited substances that are not necessarily less potent but do leave open the possibility of a reduced sentence through a plausible explanation. WADA says that Specified Substances were introduced: "to recognize that it is possible for a substance to enter an athlete’s body inadvertently," and therefore allow a tribunal more flexibility when making a sanctioning decision.


Is a supplement to blame?

We don't know yet, but if Jared and Richie do end up citing a supplement as the cause of the Higenamine and Oxilofrine in their systems, you aren't going to need to be Sherlock Holmes to figure out that both are sponsored by Ryno Power, a sports-centric supplement company that's widely known in the moto world. Ryno Power is also an advertiser with Pinkbike.

We reached out to Ryno Power’s owner and president, Ryan McCarthy, who said unequivocally that neither Higenamine or Oxilofrine are found in their products. ''Not only have we never even used any products like that before, we have our stuff strictly tested, so it's impossible for any ingredient to get in that's not already on the ingredients list,'' he told Pinkbike.

Regardless of the riders' intent, the WADA guidelines are clear that they operate under a principle of ‘strict liability,’ which means that athletes are responsible for what goes into their bodies, regardless of intent or knowing use.

Whether the riders intentionally ingested the substances or not (either through negligence or tainted supplements), WADA's stance is that they're responsible for what they've ingested.
WADA Code Article 2.1.1
It is each Athlete’s personal duty to ensure that no Prohibited Substance enters his or her body. (...) Accordingly, it is not necessary that intent, Fault, negligence or knowing Use on the Athlete’s part be demonstrated in order to establish an anti-doping rule violation under Article 2.1.



Testing does not mean guilty

There's no way that the news isn't going to set off a tidal wave of opinion, much of it understandably skeptical. Doping has been a massive problem in other disciplines of cycling. But this relatively tiny niche of mountain biking was supposed to be different; it's supposed to be about ''the spirit of enduro.''

Racers being investigated doesn't automatically add up to guilt, and an adverse analytical finding doesn't necessarily equal willful cheating or intent, of course.
It was a cold and grey day today in Olargues
It was a cold, dark weekend in Olargues, France, when the EWS rolled into town.

Every single World Cup race includes anti-doping controls for both cross-country and downhill athletes, but testing on the EWS circuit might seem a bit more out of the norm because, well, it is. From when the EWS was formed until the end of the 2018 season, they've looked to the host nation's governing body to carry out the tests.



The UCI's role is limited

It was announced earlier this year that the Enduro World Series would begin working with the Union Cycliste Internationale for 2019 and beyond, with the UCI's ability to facilitate drug testing reportedly as one of the catalysts for that cooperation. That said, they aren't involved in administering this particular test or managing its results.

''That means that round 3 of the 2018 Enduro World Series held on 12–13 May 2018 in Montagnes du Caroux, France, being not registered on the 2018 UCI MTB calendar, the UCI was not testing authority at this event,'' UCI Press Officer Louis Chenaille told Pinkbike when we asked about their role in the events. ''As of today, no case related to this event has been referred to the UCI for conducting results management. Therefore, the UCI is not in a position to comment on this information.''

However, the UCI could be a factor if they prevent any sanctioned riders from competing in UCI events in the future.



The Enduro World Series' involvement is limited as well, for now

The Enduro World Series didn't administer this test and isn't responsible for managing the results. They do have their own anti-doping policy, found on page 18 of the previous year's rulebook, that states: ''The Enduro World Series organizers and EMBA will respect and assist any National Cycling Federation operating anti-doping controls at Enduro World Series events.'' In this case the federation is the FFC and AFLD because the race was in France.

While the EWS might be largely hands-off and waiting for the news like the rest of us, they're also a big part of why this is all going down given that Chris Ball, Founder and Managing Director of the Enduro World Series, requests that the national federations carry out tests at every EWS race.
Chris Ball, Founder and Managing Director of the Enduro World Series.

Ball commented that ''As is standard practice in situations like this, although we as EWS specifically asked for anti-doping tests to be carried out in France by the French Anti-Doping Agency (AFLD), we are not included in the details and discussions about any findings or open cases that follow thereafter."

The EWS will, however, have to make decisions about sanctions for the riders who failed the test in Olargues. The EWS refers to WADA for their policies on doping, just like many other professional sports do, but their stance has always more black and white with a "zero tolerance" policy. The 2018 EWS rulebook says that ''... any cyclist, regardless of cycling discipline, who has previously been found guilty by any court or regulatory body of any use of or involvement with banned, performance-enhancing drugs will not be entitled to compete or take part in any Enduro World Series event.''



What's next for Richie and Jared?

At this point, it's a waiting game for the AFLD to release their findings. This will be the first official announcement, and it will name the substances found in Graves and Rude's systems and include sanction recommendations. Remember the three tested racers who have yet to be identified? If any of them had an adverse analytical finding as well, we'll get confirmation in the same press release.

There will likely be WADA sanctions for Jared and Richie, and then the EWS will make their own ruling.

For the WADA sanctions we may get an idea of what Richie and Jared might be facing by looking at past cases. When it comes to Oxilofrine, Flávia Oliveira got dinged with a two-year suspension for Methylsynephrine (a chemical equivalent of Oxilofrine) but - and this is very important - it was trimmed down to eighteen months after she was able to prove that the substance was both unknowingly consumed and not on the product's ingredient list.

Higenamine has a similar, albeit shorter, history in sports, with the most notable case being when a French soccer player was briefly banned by UEFA. That sentence was overturned, yet again, when he argued that there ''was an absence of significant negligence,'' and pointed out the rulebook's rather vague wording at the time.

There are a lot of factors to the sanctions—the presence of two substances, whether or not the tribunal accepts Richie and Jared's explanations, and whether the EWS enforces additional sanctions on top of what WADA and the AFLD announce.

With Graves currently kicking the shit out of cancer, the Australian wouldn't be competing in 2019 anyway. ''I wouldn't be racing anyway because I've got another six months of high-dose chemo coming up,'' he told us when we interviewed him about the failed test. ''So that won't end until the middle of the year, and then it can take months before you're back to normal energy levels.''

Richie, on the other hand, would no doubt be racing if there isn't an enforced timeout of some sort. However, one possible outcome could be that his EWS sanction is longer than the AFLD/WADA sanction. If that's the case, will we see him racing World Cup downhill instead?



Team responses

We reached out to Jared and Richie's major sponsors for statements. Some have not yet responded.

bigquotesAs you probably already know, Jared is currently fighting cancer—it’s a situation that requires 100% of his focus. Right now, our sole concern is supporting Jared in that journey, any way we are able. Everything else is secondary for the time being.Sean Estes, Specilaized Global PR Manager

bigquotesWe are aware of Richie Rude’s statement regarding a positive test at an Enduro World Series event in France earlier this year and are awaiting an outcome from the French Anti-Doping agency. We strongly believe in clean racing and the anti-doping process. We have advocated and will continue to advocate for consistent testing in the EWS and all cycling disciplines.

Based on Richie’s statement and his commitment to clean racing and training, we believe this was an isolated incident and that he didn’t knowingly take a banned substance. Yeti Cycles stands behind Richie as he goes through this process.

Out of respect for Richie, the anti-doping process, and the EWS, we will wait for a final decision before we make any further comments.
Chris Conroy, Yeti Cycles



The trophies everyone was chasing in Olargues, France.
Interview: Jared Graves
Interview: Richie Rude


Must Read This Week

659 Comments

  • + 543
 If you want to find out more info on these supplements that strip the body of fat, please don’t start by googling fat strippers ????
  • + 52
 Too late
  • + 64
 Fat strippers need love too.
  • + 15
 @Boardlife69: be a hero!
  • + 6
 @gapos999: Ummm, I was hoping someone else would take one for the team. Oh look, I have an appointment, have to go now. Good luck @gapos999
  • + 16
 @Boardlife69: you get moee stripper for your money, great value!
  • + 44
 gotta love pinkbikers for how they deal with this. upvote a joke about fat strippers -well played
  • + 13
 You want more piss-taking of the highest level.

Rhino power are advertising their supplement on PB's homepage now...

WTF?!
  • + 12
 @justanotherusername: Would love to read a PB interview of the Rhino Power people.
  • + 23
 @justanotherusername: Everyone is jumping to the conclusion that Ryno had something to do with it, but I would think with all the DH racers they sponsor, and who probably get tested on a regular basis by the UCI, they would have found something by now.
  • + 1
 @smithcreek: Im not suggesting that at all, all I am suggesting is that their adverts are being run in tandem with these stories though another PB commenter thinks it is likely to be an adsense type advert due to the keywords being present though I didnt think that particular advertisment space on PB worked in that way and it is mentioned that they have advertised here on PB before,
  • + 12
 @nyhc00: yep, already got written at work,...now ive been let go cuz i was already written up for searching 'how to ride a fatty' and 'stiff rear ends plus size
  • + 1
 Oof!
  • + 33
 @justanotherusername: I am also a Ryno Power athlete and have been tested multiple times from WADA and I have passed both times. Ryno Power is a banned substance free company, and they go through testing to make sure no banned substances end up in their products. So unless someone at the testing facilities wasn't doing their job right and purposely added banned substances into one of their products, which seems pretty far fetched. I don't think Ryno Power is to blame here.
  • + 8
 @lucacometti: So Richie and Jared are 100% guilty then.
  • + 7
 @lucacometti: I don't think anyone seriously suspects Ryno Power. Too many people in DH would be popping. The EWS guys are just using supplements more freely.
  • - 1
 Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha

They don't have to have an atypical weight to be scary mate, come to NorCal and see what an illegal stripper/pro looks like. My friend in the Navy used to always have me pick him up in front of the one and only strip club in Butte County, Northern California.

It was a great joke, it was horrible sitting out there looking like I was waiting to go inside as the "working girls" showed up for their shifts.

Ever seen Boondock Saints? Because the only way to describe it is as "...scary man, f*cking scary..."
  • - 3
 @justanotherusername: Let's all take it and see what happens, hahahahaha

Yeah, the lack of communication and statement from Ryno here is a concern.
  • - 1
 @Boardlife69: Most heroic person get's two four packs of Sierra Nevada Narwhal, IPA aged in whiskey barrels and so damn strong it's only sold in four packs.

Or maybe we should just burn one down and share some narwhal. My mom is calling me home for supper
  • + 1
 @lucacometti: oh I wasn't for a second suggesting ryno were to blame, I was just remarking their advert going live at the same point of these articles.

Good to get an insight from a sponsored athlete though.
  • + 2
 @LoganKM1982: "Yeah, the lack of communication and statement from Ryno here is a concern."

really? that's the concerning thing here? Since they were sponsored by Ryno are they contractually banned from using any other medication or supplement out there?
  • - 1
 Lol
????
  • - 4
flag gcrider (Nov 26, 2018 at 14:20) (Below Threshold)
 But there is no Way of knowing if you were ever tested for Hig + Ox . @lucacometti:
  • + 4
 "We stand behind our products - no banned substances added, no artificial colors or flavors; just 100% natural free-range Black Rhino Powder!"
  • + 0
 @lucacometti: I don't think anyone added anything to the batch but more so that where its manufactured, may not have cleaned out the previous batch of whatever it was they were outsourced to mfg and package. However if they own their own facility where only their products are made then this is not the case. I have seen this happen in MMA especially if its extremely small trace amounts. I don't know a ton about Rhyno power as I don't use their supplements nor have i heard anyone recommend them. I do know that a lot of GNC products are made in cheaper establishments and definitely have traces of stuff littered through them. to give the benefit of doubt, if Rhyno Power is as strict and clean as they say they are then there is a possibility of a coincidence where one of these two guys dropped into a store, grabbed a quick pre workout and shared it with the other. All just speculation but most of what I see in situations where it is extremely small traces is a unintentional dirty legal supplement.
  • + 6
 @freeride925: If you read what matt wragg wrote about the substances in question, one of the substances half life is very small so therefore to have found the level of substance in their test samples it would essentially rule out the likelihood that it is a tiny contaminant.
  • + 0
 My response if was found with this stuff? “Hell yeah I took it. Come at me bro! I’m surprised you only found that shit! We just tickling dicks around here or are we trying to win races on a professional platform??!”
  • + 1
 @patrickbatemanworldtour89: Their Pres has released a statement already.
  • + 353
 Don't point the finger at these 2 guys, they are not isolated cases trust me!! In 5 years of racing the EWS I've witnessed bunch of things, and they sometimes looked pretty border line to me like at the top of stage 4 in Colombia where there was a reunion of top racers showing what products they were carrying with them on race day.. It basically went from pain killers, to some ziplock bags full of yellow green and white pills and even some powder that one put on his gums saying that it was to make his brain more alert !! My response to them wasn't to go see Chris ball and Wine about it, my response to them was to try my best to kick their ass with just water in my bottle and vegan bars to eat, That was my victory and still is my victory. But The problem isn't them, the problem is the importance and pressure that we put on Winning, How it makes us feel in this society, the problem is the lack of education, the problem is the absence of boundaries and was doping control (it's changing now). Racing is such a weird thing, and if you don't race for winning some people would say "but why do you race for then?".. Well it gives me some discipline in life, to have the best health that I can, to take care of what I put in my body, to understand better who I am.. and when I am at the races It's a bit like being an artist who's putting on the show for the crowd, a person that put all his heart in what he loves the most!! I believe that Jared and Richie race for the same value as myself, and I hope that this is serving other people to pay attention about what they ingest !! High level racing doesn't mean that you should become a "vacuum cleaner", you should in fact be the opposite. Jared more than ever, stay strong !!
  • + 10
 This ^^^

I bet they both used some pre-workout from some semi-sketchy brand. EWS has such a relaxed vibe I bet they never thought twice. Sucks for everyone involved.
  • + 54
 Yoann, please never change. Your positivity and morality are inspiring. I'm routing for you 100%, and know you can hang with the best, even if only on baguettes and water!
  • + 8
 Good On You.. or Good Yoann.. lol, either way thank you for you're honesty & insight! Better to show people the right way of being by winning the right way, than trying to cheat even just a little to beat that guy you may be scared of losing to.. Very Interesting to see how being honest cant shape your heart and goals!
  • + 13
 @ko-d: Pro athletes don't use random pre work out from a semi-sketchy brand. Everything they consume is pre calculated.
  • + 4
 The news should be that they didn´t find anyone on shit... Unfortunately it seems that is how it is. I am all for a clean sport, ZERO doping should be the norm in any sport, otherwise it just becomes pointless.
  • + 8
 @yoannbarelli: Loved your comment about why you race!!! Way to go Yoann, that's the spirit! Smile
  • + 3
 Thanks Yoann for sharing your racing spirit and through this, being an example for us, weekend warrios and future avid riders. I agree, racing and drinking water and eating vegan bars and still getting crazy good results is remarcable and morally rewarding . However, I think that if you or anyone witness something weird as you mention happened in Colombia, the organizers must be informed, just for the sake of clean and good competition and protection of our sport, and to be fair to those that try and do their best without consuming anything ilegal.
  • + 11
 @ko-d: "Supplement" it's the easy excuse. Jared and Richie have had since July to figure out their message. Don't buy the party line. Same excuse is the go-to story for Track and Field for two decades when someone is busted with a day-of-competition stimulant. Nothing is new under the Sun. This is the same story that has played out before, it is just new to Mountain Biking.
  • + 8
 I love everything that you said except for this
“My response to them wasn't to go see Chris ball and Wine about it,”
I would love if you had because maybe we would have had doping controls sooner. The first step to solving a problem is to expose it. It’s simply not fair on the clean guys.
  • + 4
 @Smok77: if you're not part of the solution, etc.? Whistleblowing is a hazardous pursuit if you haven't got the stomach for it. Doubt I would do it. But I'm not a competitor.
  • + 4
 @yoannbarelli
"My response to them wasn't to go see Chris ball and Wine about it"
Well I guess he has read your comment now. Let's see how the EWS react to all this, their credibility is at stake at the end of the story, even if Graves and Rude are found not guilty.
  • + 4
 @thefoxisdead: I'm pretty confident a reason Ball allowed UCI in was becuase of these positive tests. (I'm sure he knew by July like Rude and Graves, if not sooner than them) The UCI/EWS deal makes much more sense to me now than it did before this story broke. I posted awhile back the only thing the UCI could really offer as a postitive was better and more consistent doping control.
  • + 4
 I was an international Track Sprint cyclist in the 90’s and 2000’s and I can echo Yoann’s words on the extent of illegal (and legal) substance abuse. In my sport it’s rife. Steroids. Growth hormone. Insulin. Etc etc. I used too, mainly in the off season just to keep up with the others. Every (and I mean every!) sport from a certain level up is, unfortunately full of performance enhancers. It’s fact and accepted. Not only by the competitors but by the coaches, trainers, dieticians and most importantly governing bodies. The extent (or lack of) of testing is a joke. It’s done to keep the “public” happy and that’s it. You see what separates top athletes from weekend punters is their performances. For the average club competitor or couch expert to shake their heads in amazement as to the times or weights or performances etc of the top men and women is what keeps the money rolling in. Everyone wants to watch the elite do their thing! It keeps the turnstiles ticking over. Sponsors know it too. The hypocrisy of sport is unbelievable once you get an “inside” look at it. Trust me!
What is worrying tho is the drug use is filtering down to the everyday punter these days. It’s so easy to get your hands on gear! Problem is if your going to do it you need either a Dr helping or to be educated, or both! These weekend warriors are just shoving shit into their bodies and don’t know how, who, when or why! Dangerous shit!
  • + 0
 @warmerdamj: how the hell do you know? Lol
  • + 1
 @Rimrider26: I don't think people equate their pre-workout or fat burner as "gear". I know I never have. Now I'm trying to figure out if what I'm using actually contains a banned substance. Everything on the labels are listed as "proprietary blends" with herbal names. Can you really expect someone to know that the ingredient listed as Acaicia Rigidula Extract is actually Oxilofrine? It's not listed on the WADA banned substance list that way. Half the stuff I bought from Vitamin World could be on that list and I wouldn't know it.
  • + 1
 @chriskneeland: I’m not talking about pre workouts etc. when you’ve gone the extra few steps up the “supplemen” ladder you don’t bother with that crap! No, “gear” generally refers to stuff that’s illegal mate. Over the counter “preworkouts and fat burners” ain’t gear! But as you said half the time you don’t know what’s in them. Any one remember the pre workout called Craze. Done by driven sports. Turned out to have amphetamines in it! The director of Driven sports went to prison I think, or suspended substance!? 13-dimethylamylamine is banned but is/was in nearly all pre workouts. Bottom line I spose is if you don’t know don’t take it. AS AN ATHLETE IT IS YOUR RESPONSIBILITY! As an athlete the trick is working out when you may get tested and coinciding your cycle length and clear out time for said event/testing. Random Out of competition testing can happen but rarely does. Like I said the extent of proper regular testing is pathetic. It’s a token gesture by governing bodies to appease the masses!!
  • + 1
 @chriskneeland: then don't take supplements, you don't need them. At all. An active athlete only needs 2g/kg protein, which can easily be had from diet alone.
  • + 1
 @Ryanrobinson1984: I know cause I was one of them mate! He’s correct. Everything in your season is a calculated and planned event/s. At the start of every season any pro athlete will sit down with their entourage and plan every small detail, from training cycles to meet competition expectations all the way down to diet AND “supplement regime!!” and how it all ties in together! It’s professional!
  • + 0
 @Rimrider26: Sounds exhausting. So they're guilty, yes?
  • + 0
 @BenPea: most definitely
  • + 1
 @BenPea: ......but only guilty in the sense of being on a level playing field with all the other professionals. The real “guilty” ones are the governing bodies
  • + 2
 @BenPea: Professional sport (ie when you get paid and others make way way more than you do from your performances!) is such hypocrisy! When you’ve been “in that world” it really is disgusting on so many levels. Greed and money it’s all it comes down to. And the bastards that make the most money ain’t the ones risking their health by putting the shit into their bodies!! No their off snorting lines of coke off of hookers backs while us athletes are in bed by 9 and up at 4 foryetanother day of flogging our bodies!!
  • + 1
 @BenPea: I really feel for these boys and can only hope and pray that they’re not both turned into scapegoats! Especially with what Jarryd is going through privately
  • + 1
 @Rimrider26: Is anything on this planet not completely sordid nowadays (apart from the mountain out back)? My question was going to be "so no one is innocent?" Would have been more appropriate...
What about the chess guys? Beta blockers?
  • + 1
 @Rimrider26: strangely it does feel quite close to home indeed
  • + 1
 @BenPea: haha yep good call mate. That’s why as a retired track rider I love mountain biking! So free and pure and part of nature! But unfortunately with competition so comes the bane of sport; money!!! ......and mountain biking is another sport like any other! But I do love that the majority of Mtb riders don’t compete whereas not many people would choose to go around a little banked wooden track for “fun”!
  • + 1
 @Rimrider26: My mate in Geneva does it during his lunchbreak, with an instructor. I'm worried about him.
  • + 1
 You're goddamn right Yoann.
  • + 274
 Sad to hear! I really hope we will see more tests in the future with the UCI involved next year. My twin sister nor myself ever got tested in EWS racing with 6 complete seasons racing in the Top 5/10... I'd be happy to see more tests, it helps everyone especially the athletes that commit to a clean sport!
  • - 127
flag chriskneeland (Nov 26, 2018 at 4:13) (Below Threshold)
 No need to blow this of proportion. Both these guys train heavily and likely use a multitude of pre-workout stimulants. Taking supplements pre-activity is probably just part of their normal nutrition plan. I don't know if it ever occurred to them that they were taking a WADA banned supplement. I take my pre-workout before I ride my bike park just because I like the extra pep early in the morning and I've never considered once to check to see what's in it. The EWS doesn't have a banned supplement list so it wouldn't make any sense for them to change their normal pre-workout nutrition for no reason.
  • + 101
 @chriskneeland: maybe you should check what you put into your body buddy!!
  • + 286
 Maybe you should try a banana and a cup of coffee over a bunch of stupid fucking supplements.
  • - 83
flag chriskneeland (Nov 26, 2018 at 4:53) (Below Threshold)
 @Rucker10: I prefer the PH balance of a dietary supplement over the acidity of coffee in the morning. Sounds f*cking stupid right?
  • + 74
 @Rucker10: Bananas are one of the most deadly stimulants known to man.
  • + 16
 The trouble is that the UCI can't deal with dopers. Especially after clearing Chris Froome you can't trust them.
  • + 10
 @chriskneeland: I like the smell of the napalm in the morning. Acidity is also welcome.
  • + 46
 @chriskneeland: I agree that this would be a problem for amateur athletes. But for professionals, especially those who have a team that can pay for testing, just taking a supplement you dont know is safe to use is unfortunately inexcuseable in my view. Also alot of different nations sports federations and antio doping agencys do test supplements and food and release list that show what is tested. and some test supplements for athletes so they can be safer when using them. Also many manufacturers of supplements take anti doping very seriously and get independent testing of all or most of their products. This is of course no guarantee, and accidents can still happen, but it makes it safer. We dont know what has gone wrong in this incident. and i consider the athletes innocent till they have gotten a sentence. And they will get the chance to prove their innocence. But in general it is the athletes responsibility to be sure that what they eat is clean and free from illegal substances. Pro atheltes in particular have a lot of tools available to them to prevent these problems and therefore should have stricter diligence requirements. But also amateur atletes can do measures to minimise the risk of eating contaminated food or supplements. If athletes are not sure about a product, then they should not eat it.
  • + 2
 @DrPaulus: But my point is both Higenamine and Oxilofrine are safe to take, sold over the counter as a dietary supplement, and are not banned by the EWS. It's no different than taking any other dietary or workout supplement. If they're going to accuse Graves and Rude of "doping" then they should get their shit together and put out a banned substance/supplement list before the subjecting riders to testing.
  • + 11
 @DrPaulus : Your statement is very true for perhaps more organized "team" sports like hockey and futball but most DH WC teams that I know are pretty much privateers with a better van and perhaps a better groupo. Some of them have coaches and trainers in addition to their team mechanic, most of them do not have nor can afford a nutritionist. There is a reason why their jerseys have all those labels on them, each company shells out €3000 a season for that jersey real-estate and only pony out more cash if the Athlete podiums or makes a "company content" video, of which the Athlete has to hire the videographer and license the music.
  • + 91
 @chriskneeland: they use the WADA list, which is hidden behind a convoluted series of security measures that include googling “WADA banned list.”
  • + 15
 @Rucker10: I go with 5 cups of coffee....but that's just me
  • + 27
 @Caro-DH: Its great to hear the opinion of a competitor in the series voice their opinion in the PB comments section. Thanks for the insight!
  • + 14
 Reading all this I have to give thanks that I'm just a lowly weekend warrior. I don't have to worry about having a pre and post workout "stimulant." Like dude said up thread, you don't know what's in that shit half the time (yet he still takes it, which I don't understand,) why put your body through that? Why isn't it ever enough to be strong, healthy and fit, but not all roided out?
  • + 17
 @DrPaulus: "If athletes are not sure about a product, then they should not eat it." - Nailed it.
  • + 29
 @chriskneeland: www.wada-ama.org/sites/default/files/prohibited_list_2018_en.pdf

Page 4. This is the definitive list of banned substances. There is an app that goes along with it so you can easily look things up on your phone.
  • + 17
 @chriskneeland: Oxilofrine is an amphetamine, which increases heart rate and blood pressure. This makes it potentially unsafe. OTC or legality has nothing to do with it.

As far as banned by the EWS, here's the WADA list:
www.wada-ama.org/sites/default/files/prohibited_list_2018_en.pdf
  • - 23
flag chriskneeland (Nov 26, 2018 at 7:46) (Below Threshold)
 @Rucker10: Well anyone who takes supplements in the US knows the industry isn't well regulated, so there's no guarantee of knowing exactly what you're putting in your body. I personally try to stick with reputable brands (as subjective as that is). Also, I react to different products in different ways, so it becomes a bit of trial and error until I find a product that I can handle with few adverse effects. But I don't just go online and grab the first thing that google suggests. I get input from friends and other riders who train that use a certain product and I'll try it out. I personally like to use a product called SuperHD, I have friends who use other brands with proprietary blends. All the products in essence do the same thing, but it's unlikely that they use the same ingredients to accomplish that result. So I can understand how people who take these products don't measure a supplement based on what is in it, but rather what the effects are. I think that goes for most supplements out there.
  • + 8
 @chriskneeland: The biggest problem is that half the time, you can't believe what's in the ingredient list for stuff. I read an article (and wish I could find it now, and can't) where they tested a bunch of OTC pre-workouts, and over half of them contained things that weren't on the label. Given the facilities that they're produced in make all sorts of things, the possibility of cross contamination is really high. Are you really going to have every bucket of your pre-workout drug tested? Come on.

The fact is that if you take anything, you're rolling the dice. You really have no clue what's in that powder you put in your bottle every morning.

I compete in weightlfting. I check all my labels against the banned substances list, but for a week pre-comp, I don't take any of my supps - just to make double sure I don't get pinged for something.
  • + 14
 The problem isn't just this drug, it's also a potential masking agent. To me this explains to some degree how you can compete in endurance cycling events with the physique of a crossfit bro.
  • + 2
 In the next years to come advance genetic mutation will be done and doping will be child's play. This technology is already being applied.
  • - 1
 @panchocampbell: Bahhh just deal with it later on!
  • + 2
 @jclnv: Like how international rugby players have both endurance and strength? It's not impossible, it does require having more than just enough upper body strength to squeeze a water bottle or unwrap an energy bar - which for way too long has been viewed as acceptable for cycling.
  • + 14
 @chriskneeland:

EWS rule 15 states that there is a zero-tolerance policy and that racers are subject to the normal rules per their national federations. Therefore WADA is the authority on what is a banned substance. WADA has both of these stimulant drugs on the banned list.

The stimulant Oxilofrine is listed here: www.wada-ama.org/en/content/what-is-prohibited/prohibited-in-competition/stimulants

The stimulant Higenamine is listed here: www.wada-ama.org/en/content/what-is-prohibited/prohibited-at-all-times/beta-2-agonists
  • + 9
 @chriskneeland: I think Richie himself has got a better handle on this than you. In his separate interview on this matter he stated that he holds a UCI Licence, so therefore he is bound by their WADA affiliation. It doesn’t matter that the EWS are not yet a UCI set up, the athlete is.
  • - 15
flag chriskneeland (Nov 26, 2018 at 10:06) (Below Threshold)
 @lee-jordan: But he doesn't race UCI events, so how would it apply?
  • - 26
flag ybsurf (Nov 26, 2018 at 10:22) (Below Threshold)
 @chriskneeland: just go vegan and you won't need those pre ride stimulant you'll be surprise how meat eating do to your mind and body
  • + 8
 @chriskneeland: ah but... Enduro is often under ffc sanction in France making it uci affiliated, and furthermore the afld can test in any event in France uci affiliated or not... It's a government agency... You just can't avoid it dude... The tests are legitimately administered... They failed... For substances with clear benefits for enduro racers... Now they get the chance to make their statements and we await the findings of the adjudication... I wonder though in the event they are suspended, if they will sue the ews for inclusion after the suspension... Or if ews will align it's rule with most other sports which allow athletes to return to competition after a suspension.
  • + 8
 @chriskneeland: Mate I can’t break it down any more simply. He has a UCI licence, to race events like EWS they will ask for this or the one of your countries governing body eg ‘British Cylcing’ who align themselves with the UCI. It doesn’t matter that the race was not a UCI race. I am not saying that he knowingly did anything wrong, all I am saying is that he knows himself that he’s going to struggle to get out of this one.
  • - 16
flag chriskneeland (Nov 26, 2018 at 10:50) (Below Threshold)
 @lee-jordan: You needed a UCI license to race the EWS? All I'm saying is why would someone follow UCI rules at a non-UCI event. The EWS obviously doesn't enforce WADA rules and supplementing is a widely accepted practice (see Yoann Barelli's comment).
  • + 9
 @chriskneeland: The EWS rulebook states that competitors are still subject to their respective governing bodies' anti-doping rules. Since most governing bodies adopt WADA rules instead of trying to make their own, it makes the WADA something of a de facto anti-doping body for what would appear to be the vast majority of pro racers.
  • - 12
flag chriskneeland (Nov 26, 2018 at 10:54) (Below Threshold)
 @eriksaun: I agree that AFLD had every right to test. But to hold these two up as an example for a series that doesn't monitor or enforce supplementation at any other event in it's history is a little unfair.
  • + 4
 @chriskneeland: It's not entirely unreasonable to prepare for the 2019 season where EWS will adopt the UCI rulebook.
  • + 8
 @chriskneeland: I give up.....

This is my last time of trying to explain the matter. To race in an EWS, you will need to hold a licence of the cylcing govering body of your sport. In my case, a British Cycling Licence that is affiliated to the UCI. So regardless of if I was doing an EWS, or messing around with my mates, I have signed up to the rules and regs of my governing body. So if tested in the period that you hold that licence, and you fail, then you haven’t got a leg to stand on.....
  • - 1
 @DrPete: I see. This is very confusing. How do racers who do not hold a UCI license race in the EWS? For example if I raced a ESC EWS qualifier. Which rules would I be subject to?
  • + 1
 @chriskneeland: don’t know if rules are different for pros but I do believe it would be USA Cycling. I’m too slow to ever worry about EWS so I’m sure someone on here has more experience and knowledge than I do.
  • + 4
 @chriskneeland: no series in cycling, nor major worldwide sports league conducts their own testing... virtually all sports outsource this to wada, or a government body like afld... You are envisioning some scenario where ews is in charge of testing, but this almost never exists in the world of sport... You want things to work a way that they don't work...
  • + 1
 @chriskneeland: in the case that you raced a ces ews qualifier, you would not be subject to any anti doping if it's not usac... Don't know why esc round be different... Since there is no body with a mandate to administer testing in this case... Pop an adderral before stages... shit, take epo and hgh with testosterone... We'll never know... In France, you'd be subject to afld regardless if the uci were involved... The ews clearly states that they cooperate with any anti doping agency with jurisdiction.... So the athletes know, and it's all legit...
  • - 2
 @eriksaun: It's just insane to me that after all this that the EWS has existed, this is the first time any testing has been done and WADA rules have been enforced. I guess it was only a matter of time before a 3rd party agency would get involved.
  • + 2
 @chriskneeland: I am not sure if this is the first test, but it seems to be the first positive... To be clear, ews welcomes and requests the testing, but the resources are generally slim to carry them out, if any mechanism exists at all (in the case of events completely non aligned)... From the standpoint of an athlete I would want enduro to be a part of usac, uci, and the Olympic movement in general for many reasons, one of them being regular testing... It is about time that regular testing happens, and for the sport to grow it is necessary... Iike I said before though, I wonder if enduro is bigger than these two past champions... If they are suspended, what will happen at the top level? What will happen with sponsors? It's going to get semi interesting...
  • + 0
 @oskee6: Oh come on they're hardly comparable. Rugby is all power in short bursts. EWS Enduros involve pedalling up mountains for hours on end, sometimes over three days if practice is included. Then they have to race down with occasional climbs and extended pedalling sections. If you're lugging around say 20-30% more mass than everyone else you're going to be pretty f*cking done halfway through the day and performance is going to suffer. Unless something is not quite right that is. That's just a simple physiological fact.
  • + 1
 @eriksaun: "I wonder if enduro is bigger than these two past champions... " Of course it is, Jared is the past and Rude was becoming it until this tainted win in France. France has no beef with the US by the way (or from the US, for that matter, also for doping
reasons), but it is like a fog with a bone about anti-doping science, even if it isn't squeaky clean either.
@lee-jordan: how does that thick brick wall feel against your forehead?
  • + 5
 @chriskneeland: Anybody involved in high level sports knows you don't take supplements. The dangers of accidental consumption of a banned substance in a supplement is well known. Yet, people continue to take them, why? Probably because it gives them an advantage over those who are unwilling to take the risk.

Both of these guys would have had to take some sort of anti-doping course at some point in the their careers. They cannot claim ignorance.
  • + 2
 @WhatAboutBob: I don’t get it either. The internet is awash with folks who throw their livelihoods away for the stupidest nonsense.
  • + 3
 @WhatAboutBob: Someone should've told Graves. Seems like it was always par for the course in the EWS. Kind of sucks this is how they send the message it's over.

p.vitalmtb.com/photos/forums/2018/11/26/7011/s1600_CorralChile2016_pitbits.jpg
  • + 2
 @jclnv: There's plenty of athletes with mass that also have endurance. The climbs aren't timed, they aren't expending max effort, leaving more power to lay down on the timed parts. Power is usually developed in strength training.

The main point is don't assume/imply that someone that weighs more than 65 kg and has endurance is juicing. If anything, the track record of endurance cyclists with "traditional builds" racing clean is infinitely worse.
  • + 1
 @oskee6: power/weight is everything for climbing. I can put out 200-250w on a long climb no problem, but that's only 2w/kg..not going to cut it despite being decent numbers. If someone is big and heavy and doing well climbing its a bit suspicious.
  • + 2
 @oskee6: Maybe because 99% of riders have that build?

But you're right, they may not be climbing at threshold but the effort is accumulative. Also if you're racing multi 5 min plus stages with short climbs and extended pedalling, interspersed by long climbing transitions, it's an endurance sport and I just don't believe that Rude's physique wouldn't cost him major fatigue over a day of racing.

I might be wrong but you just have to look at literally everyone else's physique.
  • + 1
 @bishopsmike: depends on where u insert it
  • + 2
 Kinda horseshit assumption @clink83: Irrelevant to biking but I have a friend that, shall we say, overweight that can outclimbed me anyday.

Rock climbing that is. He’s not stacked like a crossfit bro. Big belly, lots if weight to carry around but he sure can tug hard on those small holds.

Although Power to weight has been proven beneficial, it is not always the case.
  • + 3
 @sylvainvanier: Bit of a false analogy. Rock climbing is about the most technique based sport I can think of, swimming aside.

Plus it's all relative. Maybe you're nowhere near as strong as you think. Hand strength especially.
  • + 1
 Maybe @jclnv: my daughter is 7 times Provincials Champion in climbing. She definitely has power to weight ratio. No denying that one.

Almost 50, probably 10-15 extra I wouldn’t mind loosing. Still do circles on a bike around kids 25 years younger than me.

A fit person is not just in the looks. Body most likely will dictate how it will shape up. Graves & Rude couldn’t be skinny even if they tried...

Drugs or not, to 50 guys in the EWS are fast as hell. I even coach mtb with a young lad that goes unreal fast. No drugs there but the recreational kind...
  • + 1
 @Rucker10: a banana is great but my pre workout is way better for me than coffee. most "stupid f*cking supplements" you're referring to are just amino acids, which are a great alternative to a psychoactive drug/stimulant like caffeine.
  • + 2
 @sylvainvanier: Well massive respect to your daughter. That's bloody great. You're obviously vastly more knowledgeable about climbing than me.

That said I've been riding/racing road and MTB since the early 90's and all the major anomalies in body type I've seen except Sagan, and to a lesser extent Cancellara, have been down to PED's. I'd imagine you can get away with more mass on the road due to drafting and the variation in courses. Pick and choose events etc but name an endurance sport where body types like Daily are competing with ones like Rude.
  • + 4
 @chriskneeland: Dude do you just not get it?!?!

''someone should have told graves'' is the dumbest thing you have written yet ( thats saying a lot)
Graves has been competing in both UCI and Olympic events for the better part of a DECADE. He and his team are most certainly aware of the doping regulations set forth by both WADA and UCI.
Just because you are unaware of how this all works, does not mean that well paid professionals are also clueless.
  • - 3
 @thedirtyburritto: According to Graves he didn't know. So anyone not calling him a liar is the dumb?
  • - 3
 @WhatAboutBob: I couldn't disagree more. Everyone I know who trains takes supplements. Whether it's for racing bikes or running a tough mudder. It's also common for people who train together to use the same supplement stack. I don't know what the WADA regs are for a tough mudder, but I have never once heard someone express concern over something in their pre-workout being on the banned substance list. And when I hear that no testing has ever occured at an EWS event until now, then I can understand how an EWS rider wouldn't concern themselves with what's in their supplement stack.
  • + 1
 @nohyphens: Whatever you need to tell yourself buddy.
  • + 2
 @sylvainvanier: you're slow then if you're getting dropped by a guy with a beer gut. I race XC, and have to race Clydesdale just to have a chance even have a chance against smaller riders. This is the same conversation people had about Lance, he was way too heavy to be dropping climbing specialists on climbs with his body build.
  • + 2
 ^even pro roadie sprinters aren't that heavy, btw. IIRC Bradly Wiggins is my size (6'3-6'4) but only about 180lbs.
  • + 4
 For a professional athlete I somewhat get it, if nothing else chances are you’re getting sponsorship money from a supplement company. But for the amateurs of the world, if you didn’t have it before supplements you’re not gonna have it after. It’s not even gonna get you off that CAT 3 podium you’re so proud of. They’re another worthless thing this industry pushes on us. So congrats on being another profit stream for these cock suckers.
  • + 5
 @Rucker10: When I was racing USAC Cat 3 I was approached by a few folks who found out I was a doctor and wanted me to write them prescriptions for EPO, HGH, and testosterone. After saying no every time because I value my medical license people quit asking.
  • + 0
 @oskee6: Agreed. If there is one thing I've noted about Enduro it is that body type and shape is no indicator of performance. You see all types of body types on the Male side on the podium. Enduro is really about anaerobic threshold. Anyone on the top the EWS clearly has a high threshold. Rude would be no exception. Neither of the drugs he was found with would change that materially. That video floating around in comments of Rude blowing by Damien Oton and then Jerome Clementz just demonstrates he has a high threshold much like track cyclists. You can train for aerobic, but I feel like anaerobic capacity is more genetic based in the end - the 400m in Track and Field is a perfect example. Mostly anaerobic. You're either good at it or not.
  • + 3
 @clink83: I agree 100% if you are at the very top of your game. You would be slow. I wouldn't call myself slow by any means and I wouldn't call the people I do circles around extremely fast.

But my argument was about Power to Weight ratio being the only measure to measure performance and arguing that even though Graves & Rude are big guys, doesn't necessarily mean they should be slower because of their body weight.

Lots of folks on supplements. No excuse for not knowing but I had an opportunity to ride with some EWS riders. They're fast, regardless of their muscle mass and what they take. Like really fast...
  • + 1
 @Rucker10: I don't need to tell myself anything. My preworkout is just whey protein, bcaa and beta alanine. This combo is certainly much better than a cup of coffee. You can think whatever you want, but no nutritionist serious about working out is going to agree with you.
  • + 1
 @nohyphens: Are they coolaid flavored at least?
  • + 1
 @Rucker10: lol no I've done flavored in the past but they aren't. it's really boring. i've done coffee and caffeine before workouts too, but been off it for years.
  • + 0
 @jclnv: His father has been after him like a Marine Drill Sergeant since he was able to walk. His fitness, strength and performance arent even slightly surprising when you've seen him at 12 owning regional pro classes in downhill.
  • + 3
 @MisterBanzai: Yep he has a great physique for DH. That's the issue!
  • + 2
 @sylvainvanier: of course I mean slow in the context of pro racing of courseSmile I would also place myself in the slow category, I didn't mean that as an insult. Enduro isn't XC, but the long climbs do come down to power to weight at that level since they all have technique that isn't holding them back, a heavy rider is going to be working harder, as pointed out above.

Anaerobic fitness has only a small part to do with enduro success, since like XC you're going to be spending most of your time climbing. If you're spending a ton of time in the red you're sapping power, plus it takes valuable energy to turn lactic acid back into glucose in the liver.
  • + 3
 @chriskneeland: That is a fairly incriminating image which rebukes the "I had no idea" sentiment. Wild.
  • + 4
 @jclnv: I have to say that the amount of chat about men's physiques is bringing up fresh questions.
  • + 0
 @Soilsledding: I guess the question is whether or not he was aware a banned ingredient was in it.
  • + 1
 @Rucker10: maybe you should watch closely of what he does, with every move. ????
  • + 2
 @jclnv: the point is that he surprised/owned/dominated people twice his size and age when he was prepubescent. His fitness is unreal because of good genetics and an isane work ethic + ridiculous talents, and this 'wrong physique' stuff is nonsense.
  • + 4
 @MisterBanzai: Who else in the EWS field can haul around bulk like that?
  • + 3
 @MisterBanzai: lol the guy has just been caught doping. You make him sound like a superhero.
You should question his achievements and ethic given the recent findings.
  • + 3
 @MisterBanzai: “What am I on? I’m on my bike, busting my ass 8 hours a day. What are you on?” —Lance Muddafuggin Armstrong

It was true. He did train hard. He also doped his entire career.
  • + 3
 @Hoob93: not to mention that having genetic gifts doesn’t mean you didn’t dope.
  • + 3
 @DrPete: exactly. People need to be held accountable for their actions, don't excuse him because he tries really hard. If they decide yes he was doping then the reality of it is that his achievements aren't worth as much.
  • - 5
flag chriskneeland (Nov 28, 2018 at 9:19) (Below Threshold)
 @Hoob93: It's already been determined that both of these ingredients have been mislabled or completely unlisted in a multitude of supplements.
  • + 1
 @bishopsmike: Didn't know that
Got links where I could learn more on that?

Thanks
  • + 5
 @MisterBanzai: I watched this same arguments go down on road bike forums 15 years ago or so..lol
  • + 7
 @chriskneeland: ...and my dog ate my homework.
  • - 1
 @chriskneeland: why do people keep down voting your fairly benign and moderate comment? What a bunch of bitches around here
  • + 1
 @Ryanrobinson1984: maybe because he has the same listening ability of a Working Cocker Spanial chasing a scent......
  • + 2
 @chriskneeland: I don't know is ignorance a good enough excuse?
  • + 265
 as long as there is no such incident with sam hill involved my world is still in one piece
  • + 8
 That’s what I just said to my wife when I read this.
  • + 2
 lol. Keep the blinders on then and head on down to denial town. All modern high performance sports have doping. No one can win without doping. WADA knows this and is constantly trying to update their tech to catch people. However, when politics comes into it they are stripped of power eg Russia and the Olympics. Next people will say Nino is clean...lol
  • + 4
 @SintraFreeride: i guess WADA banning Russian Athletes for 3 years due to RUSADA non-compliance was a real strip of power.
  • + 6
 @optimumnotmaximum all good... he doesn't need more than his regular shot of australian snake venom
  • + 7
 if drugs could make me ride like this: www.pinkbike.com/video/494526, i'd be swallowing full bottles of them!
  • + 17
 @Mugen: unfortunately (or not) you cant buy skill in a bottle. what u can do, and this is always overlooked in skillbased sports like soccer, is to massively increase your fitness which enables you to show your full skilllevel even after 90 mins. sprintinting, or in our case 7 hours of riding. So i wrote my comment with a bit of anxiety and a bit of hope.
  • + 3
 @Turboute: Funny. Thats what my wife said to me when this article came out.
  • + 0
 @SintraFreeride:agreed! Doping is prevelant in virtually all high output professional sports. To think otherwise is both naive and ignorant. The ends justify the means.
  • - 3
 @SintraFreeride: Of course the Frenchie thinks everyone is doping.
  • + 2
 @scott-townes: @scott-townes: Because everyone at the top of every professional sport (and most Olympic sports) most likely is. Like Enduro is the only cardio/strength sport where all the top guys and gals are clean, LOL! Pretty naive to think otherwise. Go watch Icarus.
  • + 3
 @peaotterthegreat: Allowing Russia to compete in the Rio Olympics was ridiculous!
  • + 0
 @scott-townes: I am not French but to think you can win clean is ridiculous. Lance wasn't clean and neither has anyone who has won the Tour since. Marion Jones wasn't clean, nor was Flo Jo nor was Ben Johnson or even Mr. Clean Carl Lewis. I am a big fan Sam Hill but to think he is clean and is beating everyone else on the EWS circuit is pure dream.
  • + 6
 @SintraFreeride: you're going to hell Smile
  • + 7
 @cardanbleu: I heard he's built up an immunity to iocane powder.
  • + 4
 I just hope there is no such incident with the privateer, would feel so cheated
  • + 3
 @acali: Yep... It is odorless, tasteless, dissolves instantly in a beer and is among the more powerful drugs known to Sam
  • + 2
 @BenPea: Hell has rock n roll so I'll feel right at home Wink
  • + 1
 @Turboute: and what did she say?
  • + 3
 @optimumnotmaximum: there are drugs that improve concentration and in turn ability to learn so the athlete improves skills at a faster rate. It's common at high level universities. Also if you can ride for longer you have more time to improve your skills.
So drugs can definitely have a direct effect on skill level.
  • + 1
 @Hoob93: do they test for cocaine?
  • + 1
 @acali: potd!
  • + 119
 Even if they are found guilty, I think they should still be able to keep their all their sponsors & awards. The last time I rode my bike on drugs I crashed into my neighbors house
  • + 63
 Classic Lance Armstrong joke reworked for Pinkbike in 2018.
  • + 27
 @samfr1000: and just like lance it looks like these guys aren’t going to own up to the drugs they were doing, typical I accidentally ingested those substances, are you kidding me, man up and admit you were caught. No one accidentally ingests drugs much less one speviacally known to enhance cycling performance, but a doper is a cheater and a cheater is a liar
  • + 2
 @mkotowski1: too much money involved to own up - will always be the case. I'm withholding full judgement until there's an official statement or report on the tests though.
  • + 4
 @samfr1000: I hear ya, I guess we do need more info but it’s hard not feel like they knew excactly what they were doing. Just saddens me, I thought the gravity side of mtb didn’t have this stuff going on
  • + 0
 @mkotowski1: I agree with you wholeheartedly there, it's very sad. However, I'm not that surprised by the news. If it's as black and white, "yes they took performance enhancing drugs", then how could anyone say they were surprised. You have a professional sport, offering prize money and what have you for competing but there's no standard drugs testing being implemented by it's governing body. If you were a professional cyclist and you were prepared to cross that ethical line, in order to win, then the EWS was a prime discipline to enter. This is obviously before you look at sponsorship and whatever else can come off the back of a strong performance.

Obviously I've skirted over may things with that statement, for example the hard work that is still required and the base skill set to even get down some of those tracks. I'm not for one moment saying that I, with help of some tasty drugs, could go compete with these guys - I know that.

I think Cedric Gracia released a vlog where he talked about drugs in the EWS. I didn't watch it but, after this, I'm tempted to go watch it now.
  • + 6
 @samfr1000: Cedric Gracia’s vlog Regarding doping in EWS is well worth a watch, especially in the context of this article.
  • + 8
 Most of my KOMs are powered by Sativa
  • + 1
 @samfr1000: Yes. And also a true story. My dad & I just about peed ourselves last night recalling the chain of events that night roughly 30 yrs. ago. I'm grateful to say I'm still riding & that my homies still show every Thursday for our group ride. Needless to say, our "substances" are limited to craft beer & cannabis for those who desire now.
  • + 1
 @JohSch: That was hilarious.
  • + 101
 I believe there is no modern sport without some kind of doping.
  • - 14
flag WAKIdesigns (Nov 26, 2018 at 1:19) (Below Threshold)
 I came here to say that I want to try that Oxilofrine. After taking Creatine and Beta Alanine which are nootropics, I just want more. feel great after them. I drink half of a litre of strong coffee per day, it just doesn't kick in as well as it used to. I need some better shit.
  • + 14
 And does that make it ok?
  • + 12
 @russthedog: who's asking who? a 10 year old his coach? No. It is preposterous, one should not cheat. You asking me? - couldn't give a less damn. If billions of bigots are fine with soccer players getting juiced up their ears, I won't care and won't play this game of hide and seek called "fair play" determined by a corrupt WADA. If this was Chris Froome, nothing would happen. Christiano Ronaldo? Nobody even asks. Sorry... I will give these two a pass. And if someone feels like needing to exercise their morality gauge on such cases, I guess I feel sorry for them and people around them. It also seems little happens around them if THIS is the only place where they can ponder ethics.
  • + 88
 Urine tests piss me off.
  • - 10
flag NotNamed (Nov 26, 2018 at 1:58) (Below Threshold)
 @WAKIdesigns: Creatine and Beta Alanine are unnecessary af.

As with all supplements.... You can be fast /make gains just as good.

Most people I know who religiously take supps are the ones who dont train as hard or find excuses most often.....Just rely on healthy foods.
  • - 9
flag WAKIdesigns (Nov 26, 2018 at 2:02) (Below Threshold)
 @NotNamed: I don't take supps religiously. I am generally allergic to religions, especially talking about healthy foods or healthy exercise. So... healthy foods - you mean ketogenic diet on GMO organics or Paleo, or vegan? Low carb or low fat? Do you skip breakfast or is it your most important meal of the day? IF, TRE or 6 meals per day? What's your religion? No supps sounds like a religion, considering there's enough evidence that at least Creatine works.
  • + 6
 Juicers gonna juice ........
  • + 14
 It's not true that people who take supplements don't train as hard as people who don't take supplements. Supplements have nothing to do with how hard you want to train.
  • + 20
 @SirWonky: Not always. Yes I did have a carrot and ginger juice yesterday but I wont be having a juice today. I hate cleaning the juicer. Total PITA. So.... Juicer not gonna juice for a day, or three weeks.
  • + 16
 @WAKIdesigns: I give them no pass for what they did, it’s worse to be caught doping in our obscure up and coming sport rather than Tour de France riding like Froome does. Everyone already knows the way road circuit is littered with dope but our enduro? C’mon really guys it’s mostly frigggin downhill just ride clean you bastards. Dopers suck!
  • + 3
 @mkotowski1: come back to me when you race in top 10 of anything, when your livelyhood depends on your results, read: when you will be in position to make judgments based on your own first hand experience. They owe you virtually nothing. Also, you don't know what they did and how results will be interpreted. You have to wait for the decision of your moral compass that is WADA.

I have a pro roadie in my family, I can see first hand how this job take it's toll on the riders. What for you is stoke and fun and riding with friends is what puts food on their table. It's not sick edits, a day in the life, living a dream. You would not change with them. Hence I don't expect you to understand that instantly. Take your time.
  • + 5
 @NotNamed: , simply not true. whilst i'm sure there are plenty of lazy buggers taking supps, theres plenty of folk destroying themselves daily, in the hunt for an extra 1 or 2 seconds taking supps..

the lazy fukkers arent interested in the marginal gains, and their supps are wasted on them, but the honed athletes that bury themselves daily are interested in the marginal gains, and their supps are pretty damned important to them.

The correct supps, are important for recovery, and a numerous other benefit's that if you tried to match with food you'd end up putting massive amounts of weight on...... obviously the last thing any athlete wants....unless they are a sumo wrestler of course
  • + 4
 @WAKIdesigns:
I was reading up on Froome's case awhile back. pro teams have doctors who pretty much exploit any wiggle room regarding acceptable levels of supps if it means more wins. they don't always get it right. remember the Australian Rules Football sage with the Essendon team?
"here, take these.... vitamins. you'll sleep better."
"they need to be injected doc?"
"Yeah sure"
  • + 8
 and it's surely not restricted to pro athletes... Nevertheless I really used to like especially these two dudes - great riders, rivals and still friends. That's why I am sad...
  • + 28
 @WAKIdesigns: or how about they take the livelihoods of all the clean racers.....
  • + 27
 I highly recommend the movie 'Icarus' by Brian Fogel (you can currently find it on Netflix) for anyone who wants to find out more about doping in modern sports (especially cycling and olympics). Watched it the other day and was stunned.
While an interview one of the anti doping officials was asked what he thinks how many pro athletes are doping and his answer was simply 'All of them'.

But be warned, especially if you are an enthusiast of olympic sports, you will loose your rose-tinted glasses.
  • + 3
 @ElPato: I was about to suggest this... the interesting thing about Icarus is Brian still couldn't win after doping... ha!
  • - 10
flag WAKIdesigns (Nov 26, 2018 at 4:16) (Below Threshold)
 @ElPato - this and Joe Rogan podcast with Lance Armstrong.

@mkotowski1: taking food from clean racers? Really? What a fantastically simple single liner calling up to a higher value. I upvoted you myself. A knee jerk reaction, it was that good on my amigdala. This is even more naive than believing Enduro was clean. First off you don't know what happened here, I will not believe Ryno for an inch, that they don't mix stuff into their products if only by accident. Second off, I am happy to realize in few months that they did take these drugs, what makes them "cheaters", in the meaning that they took something from forbidden list. Cold simple. They broke the rules. After all Asthma is a disease taking it's toll on so many pro athletes (like Nordic Skiers) that one may have an impression that when their kid gets diagnosed with it, that it is a sign from heaven that it has prime genetics for endurance sports right away! Nonetheless, nobody from the last or even the middle row juices himself up to the first spot. Nobody. People from the first row juice themselves to the first spot more consistently. This is how it works. So in a way, you still deserve it and clean Bobby simply didn't put himself in a position where it is worth for him to risk it. Clean is a nice way for him to deal with his shortcomings.

The funniest bit would be if Sam Hill or Danny Hart would be found juicing. oooooh nooo, not them! They would never... But Gwin! Gwin is suspicious! One thign is sure, some low lives out there are licking their lips, touching their groin and gasping at the very thought of Gwinny or Gee Atherton getting caught.
  • - 10
flag WAKIdesigns (Nov 26, 2018 at 4:22) (Below Threshold)
 @peaotterthegreat: it isn't. Dope gives you a few procent. You won't win if you miss the 20%. You will still miss 10% if you dope which means you can still be slower than a clean dude with prime genetics and better training program.
  • - 4
flag optimumnotmaximum (Nov 26, 2018 at 4:28) (Below Threshold)
 @WAKIdesigns: but look at gee , seriously
  • + 3
 @ElPato: you should read this or watch the actual documentary "catch me of you can"

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-32983932

Absolutely fascinating stuff
  • + 3
 That´s not true, and the most dangerous we don´t have to put this in our minds like this is the shit reallity. There is clean athletes that are capable of winning even in a field of large doping system like in body building, Nemai Delgado is a Vegan into the top league of this sport, he even never consumed meat in his life and is here to proove what free drug, vegan and proper mindset are able to do. We do underestimate ourselves... and this is the dangerous thing upon dopping mentality... you neve will be able to perform at best if you don´t trust yourself 100%
  • + 3
 @peaotterthegreat: Yes, that's correct.
But at the race were he entered while on a doping program the program was running for just a few month if I remember correctly. And at this point he was achiving far better training results than without the doping.
The top riders (which he described to be on another level) however were/are possibly doping for a much longer periode of time, which means they are at the form of their lives, while Brian was just getting there.
And unfortunately he also had some bad luck for his di2 battery died mid race and he virtually had to race a singlespeeder for 100 km.
I am convinced that if he would have continued the doping program he would have been part of this top riders group within the next years, but presumably at the expense of his health.
  • + 4
 @ElPato: his battery went flat. Schoolboy error. Should have stuck with cables.
  • + 1
 @jaame: Had the same thought at that moment.
  • + 1
 @WAKIdesigns: i went by what mike mahler said use monohydrate creatine creapure brand and mix it in my mullein leaf tea. didn’t know creatine was a nootropic i thought stuff like onnit alpha brain was. why is so confusing oxilofrine is in fat burning supplements. anyone know where to buy some research? definitely prefer to use supplements that someone has specifically made and use themselves rather than some random athlete endorsing their sponsors supplement company
  • + 3
 @Boardlife69: it's always better to be pissed off then pissed on
  • + 0
 @PauRexs: Nemai Delgado - If you do not understand the difference between a vegan body builder and Enduro/DH racer we have nothing to talk about. There's enough people in body building world who come to great results with terrible eating disorders so a vegan won't surprise me. That is because Body Building is not a sport. it is a beauty pagent of hypertrophy. Building muscle mass faster than strength. I wouldn't be surprised if this dude wouldn't squat more than 200kg (which is lower advanced for any lifter, bro on the gym will lift it, Brook McDonald and Adam Brayton will outlift him) How do I judge? I just look at his waist, there's not enough stabilizing muscles to support heavy lifts. Looking "good" and getting pussy is not really a measure of performance.
  • + 8
 @WAKIdesigns: A big badass joint of some good quality sativa is the best pre ride supplement around. Of course, you are slow as f@#$, but you have a feeling to ride 100 km/h.
And if the stuff is really good, you've got additional obstacles popping up just in front of you. Rocks, roots, Smurfs, Elfs.. even berms. Where you never ever spotted one.
Btw; don't take it.
  • + 1
 @ElPato: its what bill burr said: My doped guy is better than your doped guy
  • + 2
 @WAKIdesigns: He's a body builder but he only weighs 80kg. I mean, he's not going to be troubling Phil Heath any time soon.
  • + 4
 @WAKIdesigns: I was enthralled with lances run to the record books during Tour de France run and looking back it does seem naive to think he could pull such a feat without doping but what he did to those 7 years of racing is horrible in retrospect. 7 years no one else could win and now looking back the riders who may have won that were clean however far back in the ranking will never be remembered while a selfish doper stole to spotlight for 7 years then crashed and burned taking down anyone who accused him. So yes doping does put a serious stain on tye sport and helps create a cycle in which youth continue to risk their health in order to gain an advantage.

Kids look up to these guys
  • + 8
 @mkotowski1: What a load of rubbish! They erased the record books for those years because no one was clean. Some bloke who finished 27th was the highest one, and even if everyone was clean he would not have made the top-20.
Why cycling has to go so hard out to f*ck itself is beyond my comprehension. How about all those guys a hundred years ago in the tour who were known to be taking or drinking anything they could get their hands on? Some even took trains! But no, that is in the past so no one cares. Everyone who won before the Lance era more than likely got creative with the rules.

The UCI should take a leaf out of FIFA's book. Hand balls, fouls, diving, goals disallowed that were goals, goals given that weren't. If the ref didn't see it in that six second window immediately afterwards, it never happened. We accept that this is entertainment first and sport second. The show must go on. It's supposed to be a spectacle that generates revenue. It's not an exercise in puritanism.
  • - 1
 @WAKIdesigns: You should develop an Adderall habit instead, shit's mega, amphetamines for the people!
  • + 3
 @jaame: doesn’t take away from those guys all sucking major balls for not being able to help but jump on the dope train so they compete with each other.

Bunch of guys shooting up to race bikes, now that’s a load of rubbish. Why do we give these people a pass and not junkies on the street. They literally have to shoot up all the time to during a race series to keep the same edge
  • + 6
 @jaame: just picture of room of guys in lyrca sticking needles In their thighs and then going out all serious like they are superb atheletes, not something I want my sport to look like so hats off to UCI for cracking down on these fools.

Imagine you as kid worked you whole life day in and day out to be a sponsored racer, once you finally get on that big team all of a sudden a hushed culture becomes apparent and the team “trainers,” or “doctors,” are like here take this and you ask your teammates and they are yeah take it no biggie. That’s the culture that accepting dopers breeds.
  • + 3
 @peaotterthegreat: he forgot to charge his di2 batteries and they failed. He would have done far better than he did.
  • + 2
 @WAKIdesigns: Maybe we can judge them a little? I mean, they can still ride their bikes for fun. It's not like they've been called off to war.
I have always found it curious that the act of cheating is what upsets people the most. People howl on and on about lifetime bans for hidden motors! What about pressuring the young to take poison for glory? What about violating the sanctity of a sporting war, which is our best hope of preventing the real thing?
What about all of these things? And I know you havewell thought out and informed opinions on this. Most of us do.
Bike racing, it's a participatory sport!
  • - 2
 @WAKIdesigns: watch game changer movie trailer about vegan athlete keeping meat out of your plates is the best way to better result. Try it for yourself.
  • - 4
flag WAKIdesigns (Nov 26, 2018 at 10:43) (Below Threshold)
 @ybsurf: Every single one of these folks uses pretty much same expressions to praise their own diet. Just open instagram accounts of folks praising veganism paleo, caveman diet, low fat or low carb, keto whatever. People come to similar results doing different things. Including those eating refined sugars...
  • - 5
flag ybsurf (Nov 26, 2018 at 10:47) (Below Threshold)
 @WAKIdesigns: do you agree we dont need meat to survive? Do you know we are not meant to eat meat we have physiology of herbivorous?
  • + 4
 @ybsurf: @WAKIdesings: there is a few Vegan MTB top athletes allready... In my case I also improved, you muscle gain flexibility and less inflamation... so is a win win everywhere I guess for enduro... With age I relized how important is mindset... and nutrition defenetly helped me (come back to scratch podiums on regional races at my almos 40) So feeling younger than ever... also you burn Karma... and this also helps with good luck on this sport where you need it so much...
  • - 4
flag WAKIdesigns (Nov 26, 2018 at 11:04) (Below Threshold)
 @ybsurf: sorry, I am not into religions, I read enough of this lunacy on my social media feed. But to answer your question I am well aware that human can survive without meat. Yes. Just like human can survive pretty much solely on meat. And so what? Physiology of herbovirous... Jesus Christ... well, look at a cow and at a chimp. As to animal farming, in case you want to bring it up... I don’t care about it. Good night we don’t need to agree on anything.
  • - 1
 @WAKIdesigns: when did you stop caring? Btw no we cannot survive only on meat good night.
  • - 7
flag WAKIdesigns (Nov 26, 2018 at 11:27) (Below Threshold)
 @ybsurf: that’s not what paleo lunatics broadcast.
  • + 0
 @WAKIdesigns: @WAKIdesigns: Right on. Furthermore, when you start to look closely, the lines between nutrition, recovery and doping get very blurry and arbitrary very fast. Some cases are black and white, but most are not. And the "science" of anti-doping is hopelessly inexact. For most positive tests WADA can only establish that the result was most likely caused by doping, but there is still a chance it occurred naturally. Their entire process is laughable when held against modern legal standards. Fairness is a noble goal, but the deck is stacked way against the athletes, even those trying to play fair.

And for those who want to make it a moral issue, imagine you've passed on college, devoted your life to bike racing, finally scored a pro contract, are living in a new country where you don't speak the language, and you're all of 22 years old, totally dependent on your new team for the roof over your head and any chance of making your pro career a reality. You could have been clean your whole life and you might struggle with the decision, but it's pretty unfair to come down on the athletes if they are all in on something and only presented with the true cost of admission once they're 99% down the road.

The problem is not the riders. It's the people running the sport (UCI and WADA). Make common-sense, realistic rules, enforce due process and be ethical about the rights of the accused - and finally sanction the teams and officials heavily and the riders lightly. It's impossible to take almost any doping case seriously when WADA doesn't hold themselves to anything close to the standard they seek to impose on athletes.
  • + 6
 @ybsurf: one can survive only on Guinness. It doesn't mean one should.
I love meat. I'm never going to stop eating it.
  • - 1
 Dude, these guys race bicycles for a living. If they want to fill themselves full of poison, so be it. They'll pay for it one way or another. And so will their families. They might get caught, they might not. Endurance sports are tailor made for cheaters. Test them all every race - improve testing technology if you can, if it matters that much to enough people. Bottom line is it's just bike racing. It's entertainment. Did any of us care if Robin Williams or Orson Welles or Jimi Hendrix was loaded when they performed?
  • + 1
 @PauRexs: how many medals does Nimai have? he doesn't win. vegan bodybuilders don't win competitions and they don't set records for lifting. seriously, take a look at any of the competitive bodybuilders like Jeremy Buendia and compare Nimai's physique. not even in the same league. if you want to talk about a vegan bodybuilder in a thread about professional athletes, that's fine. most professional athletes at the top tier competitive level aren't vegans and most of them take supplements to stay at that level.
  • + 1
 @nohyphens: Nimai won many competitions (medals) since he started in natural bodybuilding and then he just moved to other leagues cause he simply was crushing the field and no one believed him was 100% natural and vegan. And yes he is here to prove it and now is into the top league of pro body builders, Olimpia I think. Experts like vegangains will tell you he is real, also another german he did test. Soon we ll be proved you can go farest on vegan, less inflammation, better recovery, better aminogram in blood, etc etc. Time to time, we have been underestimated ourselves basically by an industry who only wanted to sell us his shit...
  • + 1
 @PauRexs: it is perfectly possible that he is 100% real. There are also plenty of vegan marathon runners who are on top of their game. But it is just like this one good crossfitter who can deadlift 650 pounds or snatch 300, they all get sooo proud of him, turns out he is an Olympic powerlifter who was good but never best and simply decided to sandbag in the retarded division. Now all crossfitters speak of him as an example that crossfit does not mean bad form and it can make you lift insane weights. They do exactly same thing with failed top gymnasts. Dude comes in does 40 pull ups in T-shirt with crossfit writing on it, hashtags crossfit, and crossfitters immediately repost him as a great example how strong can crossfit make you. Ben Pollock, he is a God send to Body Builders because he goes on their beauty pagents. He makes it possible for them to say that body builders are not weaker than power lifters... except he is a power lifter to the core.

Where I am getting at with this is, you cannot present an isolated example as a norm. I have keto traithletes on my gym, they don't really lift much, even their push ups are pathetic. They look sexy but are worthless. Should I judge keto based on them? or that loud powerlifter who is easily 95kg. I outlift him on squat and DL. He has me only on bench. Does it matter? no. Yes you can achieve great things while being vegan on ketogenic interminnent fasting, whatever you want to add. It is not omptimal though and hard to do for amateurs. I won't be eating and sitting on the loo all day long to get 120-150g of protein through vegan diet.

BTW I use "vegan" protein powders now...
  • + 1
 @WasabiJim: Puff Puff, Fromme, Froome did a nebulizer or an oral sabutamol dose for sure the morning of the crucial 17th stage of the Vuelta. We may never know what he did that day, but at some point we'll find out the story of what he used for out-of-competition training (maybe oral sabutamol). He was on the cusp of dropping out of the lead. "I've got asmthma so that must have been where the Sabutamol came from" is the perfect excuse. Likewise for Jared and Richie "it came from a supplement" is the go-to-excuse.
  • + 1
 " Soon we ll be proved you can go farest on vegan, "

No way. No way a vegan diet can go farther than somebody taking anabolic steroids. If you had said a vegan diet is naturally better for you than steroids, sure, but being a competitive bodybuilder means you are constantly tearing your muscles and in recovery. The only way to do this and win competitions is to take steroids. People like Nimai only make a name for themselves because they only talk about their vegan diet, not because they win competitions. Seriously, compare his body to Jeremy Buendia's.

The same is true for pro cyclists and most pro athletes. You won't find a significant amount of pro athletes on a vegan diet.
  • - 1
 @PauRexs: you are so absolutely right we've been condition to eat meat as its a multi billion industry to make us sick by eating their shit then another multi billion industry the pharmaceutical industry take over from there selling their shit to try to keep us well enough to keep eating meat.
  • - 2
 @WAKIdesigns: try lowering your protein intake less is more even if we been told otherwise are our lives. Plant based diet give you everything meat give you plus fiber and carbohydrates it's way more complete as long you plan your meals accordingly for better iron absorption. My friend and I are vegan without supplements and out bike and out surf younger and fitter guys out there, it's worth a try.
  • + 1
 @ybsurf: meat doesn't make you sick, it's processed foods and chemicals from fast foods that make you sick. good lord lmao
  • + 4
 You know how you can tell someone's vegan? They've told you three times before telling you their name.
  • + 3
 @WAKIdesigns: so whats worse: taking supplements or riding with a 30T chainring and an eagle cassette
  • + 1
 @nohyphens: no it's not saturated fat and cholesterol will do the trick for you will just do it slower if you active but will still take a told on you no matter your lifestyle
  • + 0
 @ybsurf: fake news
  • - 3
 @ybsurf: lower my protein intake, hell yeah. Sorry mate I've done it all. I've been on awake as fuk wagon, you can find my posts from 2010-2012 when I was preaching this. In last two years I stayed at 80-100g during bulk up period and I got my DL from 120 to 150 in 6 months on 1 Rep Max. Not too impressive. Embarassing I would say. This year with a tiny bit more volume and a better technique I went from 130 in september to 170, in 3 months - eat more or less 120g everyday and 3000 calories total. That is still under what power lifters recommend, that is 150g of protein and 4000 calories total. I expect 150kg x5 by christmas and 185 1RMax. 200 by mid February. My squat is 120x5 and bench is 85x5 - those numbers are 10kg higher than last years 1RM.And those numbers are NOT high numbers by lifting standards! this is novice level. Graves and Rude easily do things like that in the middle of the riding season where they can lose up to 30% of initial strength from the bulk up period. Sorry such results don't come from nowhere, but certain attitudes comes from faulty or unsufficient education, a bias often caused by submitting to ideology.
  • + 3
 @guylovesbike: riding on 30t chainring and eagle is not going to get you any far in the fun park no matter what supplements you take... your power out of corners will be meh and your whole body endurance under tension will be crap with getting your body tuned to those cadences. This cadence strips you off fast twitch muscles and burns muscle tissue built up by resistance training. You will be also complaining about pedal strikes and get shorter cranks which will higher your cadence even more. But you will be the star of liaisons for sure. You will be able to talk to your friends who are gasping for air while climbing a steep fireroad. Not sure whether it is what owners of 160 bikes should be really into... Staying closer to Liam Philips or Maris Strombergs body will give you more benefits on the Enduro/DH game than trying to look like Chris Froome or Nino Schurter. Also bulked up explosive body is much better at adapting to long grinds than the grinding body to explosive efforts. Sorry, Eagle, just like front derailleurs, functional training, yoga are the root of evil for me, will always be. They are the bosu ball of MTB.

taken from waki broscience journal 2018
  • + 1
 @mkotowski1: word. Fk dopers
  • + 79
 Anyone got flashbacks to that video of richie sprinting past oton up that huge hill at the end of a stage, made oton look like he wasnt moving ...
  • + 27
 If my memory is correct Oton finished second in that race too...
  • + 82
 It's just v-tec kicked in yo. Nothing illegal.
  • + 35
 You know I always suspected Richie might have doped, he dominated for 2 years and then sort of just disappeared. Obviously though I know nothing and this is just a theory I came up with when I was bored
  • - 31
flag FurryCrew (Nov 26, 2018 at 2:14) (Below Threshold)
 @toad321: I mean he was probably competing with un-diagnosed cancer for a little while there so I'd hold fire on him on that bit at least.
  • + 18
 @FurryCrew: uhmm that’s Jared?
  • + 1
 that hill... damn!! I was there as "tech". and I walked it when we were pushing like a race run complete stage!
and yes, Damien looked like me almost when RR passed him!
  • + 2
 @Phillyenduro: Video has since been pulled. Up for over a year and then pulled as soon as the drug news drops. Interesting.
  • + 78
 A smart move would be for Haibike to pick them both up and launch a new "Beyond human performance" campaign for their e-bikes Smile
  • + 38
 "It's you only faster"
  • + 65
 That accidental ingestion is really tricky. I once accidentally ingested lots of coccaine while visiting Colombia, but it was totally by accident, I though it was flour!
  • + 6
 I was just thinking that? How is it possible didn't they remember face planting a pile of drugs??
  • + 14
 Have you never woken up the next morning and thought what the hell did I take last night? @Canonboy:
  • + 1
 @Hillfarmer: oh yes many times lol
  • + 2
 @Hillfarmer: I knew what I took just not what I did
  • + 1
 Toss flour into air...inhale.
"Lebron'ed it!"
  • + 1
 Don't we all? It seems to be a common issue, gotta carb load before riding.
  • + 3
 I really hate cocaine but sure love the way it smells...
  • + 60
 doing a little research, both of these are sold OTC in supplements, and there are articles on both warning people that they might be unlabeled or found in unreasonably high quantities

www.thedailybeast.com/banned-stimulant-oxilofrine-hiding-in-at-least-14-supplements
www.usatoday.com/story/news/2018/09/06/study-avoid-nutritional-supplements-higenamine/1208664002


so is there a reasonable doubt for the time being?
  • + 71
 Comment sections are the perfect place to be reasonable.
  • + 1
 @P3N54: Define reasonable.
  • + 18
 As an elite athlete you should be checking your supplements very carefully. Things like the "approved sport" checkmark exist to make it easy to find supps that are 100% legal for competition. If you were going to cheat with a substance would be smart to make sure it was a supplement present in ropey supplements. That's an easy escape route - "it was in my supplements". Justin Gatlin claimed the exogenous testosterone in his system came in via a cream his physio rubbed on his legs. Yeah okay.
  • + 2
 *substance present in ropey supplements
  • + 0
 Popey@tom666:
  • + 0
 @tom666: You got a lab we can toss our Supplements in?
  • + 7
 A couple things worth noting:

* Supplements are not required by the FDA in the United States to list ingredients. There is no way to know, for sure, what you're ingesting with these things.

* Supplements are not regulated or tested in the United States by the FDA. The company that sponsors Richie and Jared said they are tested, but by whom?

* They are not the first athletes, nor will they be the last, to claim accidental ingestion. I'm skeptical in every case, but it's plausible.

* My guess is they will serve some fraction of a longer sanction. If they are banned for two years, they will be reinstated after 9 months or something. In time for Worlds or whatever.
  • + 1
 @TheR: I was passed a link to Informed Sport, who test sports supplements (certainly plenty of the brands I know here in the UK are on there), and Ryno don't appear: www.informed-sport.com
  • + 2
 I think there may be. The former is found in fruit in low amounts and the latter is an adulterant used illegally by companies that produce nutritional supplements.

Valuable lesson too, you really have to check because a banned substance might be an unlisted ingredient in something that looks harmless according to the label.

Personally if I was racing I would just avoid supplements unless I was trying to get away with doping. The right lifestyle, diet/nutrition, exercise, meditation, regular and sufficient sleep, make all that uneccessary. In my entirely unprofessional and uneducated opinion, I could be way wrong.
  • + 5
 If reports are correct, the substances were found in incredibly small quantities, and they seem to slip in to a lot of products without labeling. I'm definitely willing to give them the benefit of the doubt.
  • + 2
 @bizutch: @TheR: I don't know about in the US, but in the UK there are brands like MaxiMuscle and MyProtein that test absolutely every batch before it goes out. They're accredited by Informed Sport (with a logo on the packaging) to avoid situations like this.
  • + 2
 @tom666: MyProtein is sold in the US now as well. I believe they opened a facility here too. I've ordered all my supplements from them over the past year. Great quality and awesome prices.
  • + 5
 The thing is that many substances that are legal, and available both with and without a prescription, are banned from use under anti-doping rules. I could go get an appointment with an anti-aging doctor tomorrow, and very likely completely legally get a prescription for hgh, testosterone and EPO. That would also disqualify from competing in any UCI-sanctioned event. I could go to my primary care doctor tomorrow, tell them I'm traveling internationally and worried about jet-lag, and walk out with a prescription for Provigil. Totally legal, but again, on WADA's banned substance list. If you're competing as a professional athlete, it's literally part of your job to know what substances you're not allowed to ingest. The fact that they're perfectly fine for non-pro-athletes, or easily available has not bearing on that responsibility.
  • + 1
 @tom666: I'm sure there are brands that test every batch that goes out, but it's not required or regulated by any laws. These guys are sponsored by the same company, and that company says it also tests everything that goes out. Maybe they do. I don't know. But again, they are not required to, and they are not regulated. If these guys are sponsored by this company, and trust this company, and put their livelihoods into this company's hands, they are not going to check to see if they are on any naughty or nice lists. They are just going to trust that the company is acting in good faith and giving them a good, clean product.
  • + 2
 @TheR: just to play devils advocate here, but maybe it’s not the supplements. It’s easy to make that common link but that company sponsors a lot of other athletes. Everyone is looking for an explanation or someone to blame but maybe the actual explanation is the simplest, that these guys were cheating. They were transfers and were close, maybe they were into something and got caught. I’m not saying that I think there true, but it has to be considered.
  • + 3
 @sino428: I've got a comment on the latest RR-JG PB article to this respect. It seemed Track and Field transitioned to Oxilofrine in the mid-2000s and in 2013 there was a massive scandal in Track as 6 top-tier athletes tested positive for this day-of-competition stimulant (Tyson Gay, Asafa Powell). I believe it may have become the flavour of the day exactly because there are reports of cheap, unregulated supplements containing Oxi. I think T&F probably transitioned to Oxi because if you do get caught, you have an excuse that is was an "accident" because "a supplement I was taking was unknowingly tainted with Oxilofrine". Convenient excuse. Powerful stimulant. Sound familiar with today's news?
  • + 1
 @sino428: Yes. As I mentioned in my first post above, I’m a bit of a skeptic because this always seems to be the explanation when an athlete tests positive. So yeah, it’s always a possibility.
  • + 1
 @andyrm: It does not have to be Ryno products. The fact they are sponsored by them does not imply they take no other supplement, and maybe they don't even take Ryno at all. If they take something else, nobody would notice, it's not like being sponsored by ONZA and riding maxxis...
  • + 1
 @zede: and the other question to consider is that if you're an elite level athlete traveling the world, is it practical to carry enough of your nutritional supplements with you to another country?
Or do athletes have to go down to the supplement store and try to snag what is closest in context to what they use back home?

I don't fly internationally with food supplements so would love to know how athletes get their powders and pills all over the world in the quantities they need to consume and maintain a level of uniformity in what they ingest.

I mean...if you're not lugging that stuff around or you run out...you know your body will need the concentrated nutrients, so you simply have to run to a store and get something right?
  • + 2
 @bizutch: Considering the amount of gear that a pro mountain biker and their teams have to carry/ship around the world, I don't think that it would be a big deal to bring their supplements along.
  • + 1
 @TheR: FDA has asked US manufacturers using either to stop adding it so it should be hard to impossible to get in US made supplements.

Aussie supplements however....

Get that stuff easy!

Lives in most pre-workout/thermogenic powders.

Perhaps Ritchie was using the same gear Jared did for pre workout and hence both got stiffed?
  • + 1
 @professed: logic. thanks
  • + 2
 @bizutch: That's exactly what you're supposed to do - bring your supplements with you. Or go without. Or source them whilst you're there. All the time though it's your responsibility to check ingredients lists and look for the appropriate check marks. There are also apps for checking ingredients lists for banned substances. It's your responsibility as an athlete to look out for it because if it ends up in your body you are accountable.
  • + 0
 @tom666: sure, everybody fully understands that.

But everyone also fully understands that supplements are anyone's best guess at any point what's in them. Not assuming innocence or guilt in this instance, but it's plausible.

Hardest part for my brain is that I do want to declare them both guilty because coincidences only happen at the grocery store (when that potato just happens to look like a dead president). That both are great friends and former teammates and both had similar traces of the exact same substances in their systems at the exact same moment at the exact same race is not something that would fall under the "random" category without a VERY solid piece of trace evidence pointing to them both being at the same place and same time sharing that one supplement that snuck extra elements into it illegally.

When I type it out...sounds pretty bad.
  • + 55
 Well written piece by Mike Levy. More than just a piece; it's journalism with primary research then soliciting quotes from parties implicated. Reporting facts then extending from those facts.
  • + 54
 Now mtb enduro doping fairy tales are finally over. Thank you
  • + 12
 Sorry mate, but whenever money is involved people will cheat. Hell I've seen people use loaded dice at a Warhammer 40k competition, and that's just dudes playing with little plastic toys, for beer and chips level of winnings.
  • + 29
 I'd cheat to win some beer.
  • + 8
 @BorisBC35: It's naive to believe it's only about the money. I've hear (rumor....) that at amateur level of endurance sports there were a lot of people that could be positive. Intentionally or not, I don't know.
I personnally stay away from that crap because I suck at racing and I m convinced I would still suck if I was doped, so at least I am a little less ashamed of my results by being clean.
  • + 5
 @BorisBC35: even without money, someone s gonna cheat. i play warcraft 3 online (15 year old game, no money involved in ladder) -even at my mediocre level i encounter people with third party programms installed which allow you to see the whole map...
  • + 4
 @EnduroManiac: It´s about EGO. That´s the major illness in our society... many Sports competitions are like the playfield of the top ego addicts of this society... But it´s possible to compete without ego too.. I exeperiencerd myself after being EGO addict... you have to aproach the sport like a meditation... some sort of martial art... you compete against yourself in order to be the best version of yourself in all fields... and once you realize this sport helps you you are greatefull whatever the result it is.
  • + 1
 @BorisBC35: this is true. There was a roadie busted for motor-diping a while back in France. He was a masters racer doing Sunday morning races. The most he could when was maybe €20 once a year.
  • + 49
 kinda interesting it happens to be the 2 most jacked guys in the ews
  • + 12
 Two of the only jacked guys in the EWS
  • + 7
 The substances have nothing to do with muscle growth.
  • + 6
 @jayacheess: That's true but Jared and Richie were both able to maintain a much higher lean body mass than most EWS riders. If they were willing to take this stuff (provided it was not accidental ingestion) then the likelihood is high that they've taken other stuff to get and stay jacked. They train together in the offseason and I wouldn't be surprised if exogenous test, eq and/or primo was a part of that off-season training.

How would I know? Well, I've taken all those substances and I know their effect on the body. Without some of this stuff you simply can't maintain muscle mass AND cardiovascular fitness at the level they do. It's the same as really jacked mma fighters with a gas tank. Shit ain't natural.
  • + 0
 Jack has nothing to do with this, you can ask Randy.
  • + 38
 “On Next Season of the Privateer: Adam tries doping”
  • + 38
 I'm pretty sure they have asthma....
  • + 34
 Like 95% of the pro road racing peloton. Amazing how many world class athletes battled asthma to get there.
  • + 7
 I also have low testosterone and growth hormone...but I am actually getting old now
  • - 6
flag PHeller (Nov 26, 2018 at 8:44) (Below Threshold)
 There is such a thing as elevation induced asthma and people who at sea level may not show any signs could be severely impacted by it at elevation...where most of the EWS events occur. It's long been argued that a strong rider shouldn't be limited by his choice of residency. If he wants to live and train at sea level, he should be able to do so, and take something when he's at elevation. Of course, folks who train and live at elevation will argue that the albuterol and other bronchodilators are a form of doping.
  • + 5
 @PHeller: and how common is elevation-induced asthma vs the percentage of pro cyclists with TUEs for bronchodilators?
  • + 1
 @DrPete: you're the doctor here, Pete.
  • + 2
 @me2menow: this is true, but I couldn’t find any hard data on the incidence. Biggest issue is that altitude can trigger asthma attacks in those who have it but a true altitude-induced asthma isn’t really a thing. So the issue still stands that somehow a disproportionate number of elite athletes in the sport all seem to have asthma, or more specifically doctors who are willing to sign a TUE for asthma medications.
  • + 1
 @DrPete: similar story in swimming, lots of folks with inhaler prescriptions on the pool deck at competitions from high school all the way up to international level...
  • + 35
 Amazing how people who have every second of their life planned around training and have coaches/cooks/etc seem to always be accidentally taking banned substances when they test positive.
  • + 31
 "spirit of enduro"?? Everyone realised that was balls as soon as the first rider cut the course
  • + 0
 You realize one comes from DH and the other from 4x? Just saying.
  • + 2
 Is the spirit of enduro taking the enduro line?

enduro-mtb.com/en/crossing-enduro-line-racers-cheating
  • + 1
 @EnduroManiac: Graves was a DHer way before 4x was invented!
  • + 25
 Quite like the fact that Spesh have simply said that you know what it’s not the most important thing right now. It’s an unfortunate situation, but it’s not a life threatening one and I think that it’s the correct response, rather than trying a deflect and evade sort of response.
  • - 25
flag sam264 (Nov 26, 2018 at 1:27) (Below Threshold)
 It's certainly quite convenient for them...
  • + 6
 @sam264: Yeah, Cancer is a great excuse right?
  • - 5
flag inked-up-metalhead (Nov 26, 2018 at 2:44) (Below Threshold)
 @kennyken1015: only if its caused by excessive supplement consumption...
  • + 6
 @kennyken1015:
You're very much putting words in my mouth there.
What I mean to say is that while that is the correct response, don't confuse that with Specialized as a 500 million-dollar business giving a single shit about Graves (though I'm sure those that are involved personally with the team do)
  • + 3
 But this is deflect and evade... But there is not much to be said anyway.
  • + 0
 @sam264: fair enough but then you probably should've said that in the first place rather than what looks very much like a shitty comment about something that's had an impact to many, directly and indirectly.

A bit like the comment inked-up has made (rolls eyes)
  • + 0
 @kennyken1015: it's a shitty comment is it? I've been affected by it as much as anyone, I was making a tounge in cheek joke about the whole situation, more the doping side than the cancer side, and clearly the irony and intent has been lost on most people.
  • + 1
 @inked-up-metalhead: That should have said "throw away comment" guess it didn't accept my update!
And to be fair you did reply to me directly so I'm just saying what I felt about your comment.
Having lost my farther to cancer under some pretty shitty circumstances it's one of the very few topics I struggle to find any humour in.

Nothing personal man.
  • + 1
 @kennyken1015: I understand, I lost my nan, great uncle and nearly my mum, I go the opposite way though, a 'if you don't laugh you'll cry' kinda situation. Again, the original comment was more poking fun at the supplement side, that it would be somewhat bitter sweet irony if graves cancer was caused by excessive supplement consumption.
  • + 1
 @Plancktonne: ha! Deflect is a name of one of Specialized gloves and the Evade helmet..hmm
  • + 1
 @kennyken1015:
I think you'd struggle to find anyone on here who hasn't lost someone to cancer. I've lost multiple family members to it. Doesn't change the meaning of my comment.
  • + 22
 Urgh. Coming from a Moto background and seeing how WADA/USADA have destroyed careers, this isn't going to be good.

James Stewart (one of the fastest men on the planet on a dirt bike) got caught, and it turned out to be a prescription (Adderal). They banned him for 16 months and it ended his career.

Then lesser athletes (Cade Clayson) got caught doing something similar, but the issue was more that WADA were terrible. He submitted paperwork confirming he could use the drug from the doctor, and they came back with errors. He rectified them, sent them off again and didn't ever get a reply. Then he got tested and was positive, so they banned him from competing. He was a mid-low pack rider and it ended his career.

I'm all for drug testing, but WADA/USADA are a complete joke, impossible to get hold of, a law to themselves and do not have a place in our sport. Drug testing is needed, when done properly. I worry for these guys, because the banned substances lists are insane and when you're in a small sport like this - super tough to know what's good and bad.
  • + 5
 What ended js7 career is a bit the ban but more likely the two concussions he got when he tried to go back to racing. WADA is definitely a complete joke and I would be surprised if they are not as corrupted as FIFA
  • + 1
 Yep, they didn’t help - but when you’ve had to take a forced 16 months away from racing... it’s hard to come back. @zede:
  • + 15
 In JS7's case that is not how it went down. You have to provide information about prescribed medication prior to the season and James ignored that/did not follow that rule.
And Adderall is a quite serious drug and some say it is tailor-made for SX. Look into the history and current misuse of it or even where the naming comes from - it is horrible. So absolutely no excuse, if someone hides information there. And do we know, if JS7 really needs Adderall or if the prescribed dose is reasonable (Yeah, his Doc is 100% trustworthy)? In my mind the little drama queen is 110% guilty. Perfect example of illegally bending the rules and using loopholes, in my opinion. F*ck that. Athletes and their teams have the responsibility and know, or at least should know, all about prescriptions, food additives, creams and what not...
  • + 4
 @ArturoBandini: I didn't mention that he didn't have a TUE, but regardless - he had a prescription from a doctor. Adderall is one of the most widely used drugs in America...

The fact that he was able to use the drug afterwards, by WADA/USADA proves that he needed it. His team of advisors well and truly made a mistake, but he took something he was prescribed and was allowed to continue taking it afterwards. Lance Armstrong sure as heck couldn't have said the same thing.
  • + 3
 @ArturoBandini: calling one of the best MX/SX racer "little drama queen" is a good way to show how subjective you are.
JS said himself that he messed up and that he understood what he did wrong. As for saying it's tailor made for SX...It's quite of a stretch, unless you have his lap timing with and without drug.

I have asthma and at high school I was sometimes getting asthma when I was forcing a bit too much (running or swimming). I always took salbutamol before the sport exams, just to ensure I would not start breathing with difficulty during the exam. Taking salbutamol never improved my time, always between 1.28 and 1.33 for 500m run for ex. But in road cycling it was considered as doping (froome) even though studies show it is not really helping thorax.bmj.com/content/56/9/675.
  • + 2
 @zede: You ATE salbutamol, or you INHALED it? Whether there's a big effect on performance seems to depend on how it's taken. The study you referenced doesn't seem to mention that.

This study looked at athletes and found that oral salbutamol gave a greater than 20% performance gain. That's similar to the amount of effect that EPO has.

www.physiology.org/doi/full/10.1152/jappl.2000.89.2.430
  • + 0
 @lukey1: I inhaled it.
Inhalation makes way more sense than oral absorption as the target is the bronchi/lungs. I don't understand how oral could be more efficient. I'll read that paper
  • + 2
 @lukey1: I think it comes out eventually that Froomey, and maybe Wiggins too were oral sabutamol doping. Perfect cycling drug as it has anabolic muscle building effect while allowing you to drop body fat to extreme levels and optimize your power-to-weight ratio. We all know Wiggins is a wanker from his Triamcinolone injectsions before all the major events he won. Puff Puff, Fromme, Froome was chubby in his early days.
  • - 1
 @lukey1: this paper is really far from clear and they have only one result "performance related" which is the first fig ."individual performance times of cycling to exhaustion".

Looking at figure1, if I was a reviewer I would have asked for a real control without placebo to check whether the placebo has an effect. Then you see that the time to exhaustion was increased mildly in 3 subjects (maybe 10%) (no detailled stats) and greatly in 5 subjects (30%).
Then this test is pretty far from the kind of effort that road cycling or enduro require.
And then there is that "our results show a significant fall in blood glucose concentrations after Sal but not after Pla during the trial ride (...) Generally, a fall in glucose is detrimental to endurance performance, so it appears difficult to relate this decrease in blood glucose after Sal intake to the improvement in performance".

So i don't know, but I would definitely not compare it to EPO...
  • + 2
 @zede: This is the interesting part...

Case #1, when you inhale it, it works therapeutically as a bronchodilator.

Case #2, if you eat it, it's a beta-2-agonist and it stimulates nerves in many areas of the body producing different effects. Including cardiovascular effects that aid athletic performance.

There's nothing special about the drug that makes it work on just the lungs, it works just as well on every part of the body -- it works through the nervous system. Bottom line, what you experienced with your asthma inhaler is not what is really going on in cheating in sports, and don't get confused just because it's the same drug name.

If you're an asthmatic athlete, you can get permission to be using the drug for case #1, but then you have a plausible excuse for case #2. Quite a bit of research seems to have gone on about why there are so many "asthmatic olympians", if you catch my drift. It's no surprise WADA has a policy that reveals this same understanding. Specifically, WADA says these drugs are all prohibited UNLESS inhaled, and unless within a specified dosage...

www.wada-ama.org/en/content/what-is-prohibited/prohibited-at-all-times/beta-2-agonists

So having too much of this drug in your system proves it's case #2. This is a very illuminating quote about where WADA draws the line in terms of what you can get away with:

" The presence in urine of salbutamol in excess of 1000 ng/mL or formoterol in excess of 40 ng/mL is not consistent with therapeutic use of the substance and will be considered as an Adverse Analytical Finding (AAF) unless the Athlete proves, through a controlled pharmacokinetic study, that the abnormal result was the consequence of a therapeutic dose (by inhalation) up to the maximum dose indicated above. "

In other words, if you go over the limit, you're busted unless they administer the drug via inhaler in a supervised manner and get the same lab result. If that doesn't happen, deductively they know you ate/overdosed the drug.
  • + 2
 @zede:

From the study:

> check whether the placebo has an effect

It was gelatin. It was a double-blind crossover study. There WAS a "habituation trial" which was compared to the "placebo trial", if you read the study, and a final "drug washout" trial. These guys went much farther than you implied or would have wanted to see. This isn't a real problem.

> Then this test is pretty far from the kind of effort that road cycling or enduro require.

The test was performed on a cycling ergometer at 85% of maximum VO2 and calibrated via blood testing. Multiple trials were done. Like...this is cycling. What on earth would be a better study of cycling performance, in your mind? This is basically a high-quality, high-intensity lactate threshold effort, which is highly correlated with athletic success in cycling. This is a race effort performed on a bike. I am having trouble understanding your issue here.

> Generally, a fall in glucose is detrimental to endurance performance, so it appears difficult to relate this decrease in blood glucose after Sal intake to the improvement in performance

Again, this isn't a problem for this study. It's an observation that they don't explain, along with lots of other metabolic changes, but this isn't the point of the study.

The point of the study is that there was a very large effect with a P0.05. There is a very strong signal here that this is a massive, huge performance gain.
  • - 1
 @lukey1: I have not much knowledge in sport physiology so I fail to see how 85% VO2 for less than an hour is a good model when road races last 4h-6h hours ? What is the half life of salbutamol ? At which VO2% are the pro roadies in most of the race?

I hate papers where authors don't put tables that give readers all the values. What if there was a correlation between VO2max and the effect of salbutamol ? As they dont put the VO2 max of each subject, and it's known there is a huge variability in individual VO2max, I'm curious if the 3 subjects that were less responsive have different VO2 max compared to the other 5.

You explain well how the mode of absorption changes the effect, and you indicate the "1000 ng/mL in urine" limit value. This study did not mesure the amount in urine, so how can we know if the dose they took would put them above or under this "legal" threshold ?

The main result is interesting, and I understand that they can't get pro roadies in their studies but the n=8 with important variability and unexplained results leave me a bit unconvinced.
  • + 5
 Executive summary...here is the peer-reviewed conclusion: "The results show that short-term oral Sal administration improves cycling performance."

For anyone else reading this far who wants a high-level overview, this study was specifically designed to challenge the questions of whether this drug can enhance **cycling performance**. It does appear to do so. You can eat this drug on your race day and instantly perform on a bike up to 30% faster. This is a quite large performance effect, similar in size to EPO or some of the more famous performance enhancing drugs.

Details and nitpicks:

@zede: Pretty much all your other questions you are posing here can be answered by Google or by carefully reading the study as it was published.

If 85% VO2 max truly wasn't a good model for racing success as you seem to imply here, I truly wonder why they do that exact thing to test racers when as pick the national cycling teams? Hmm?

As far as it being an n=8 study, given the large effect and a positive, not null conclusion, what difference do you think it would make to have used a large sample size? It's not as if they're picking up a statistically-tiny non-null hypothesis with a huge group of people and magnifying the meaning of it. This is a statistically significant finding (p.05, it's a very clear, very strong signal !) that looked at these athletes doing about 320+ simulated races daily over a couple of months, and the results were extremely clear-cut. Like, totally obvious. If you ate the real drug, you had a major, major performance advantage from it, and if you didn't your performance was totally normal.

It's true we can't know how this would affect ALL other types of questions, it would take much more research to cover every piece of knowledge possible. What about the effect for non-athletes? What about other sports? What if you ate it 15 days ahead of time? This research really doesn't look at those questions. It's just tailor-made to answer the cycling/cheating question. This is an effective race-day way to cheat in cycling.

But anyhow, to go back to the conversation that started this, this study shows that @zede 's personal anecdote about an experience with an asthma inhaler has no relevance whether an athlete could gain a serious cheating advantage by using these substances orally. These drugs are officially banned in competition after being looked at by a bunch of world experts in sports performance. No, @zede, you aren't personally convinced (yet?), but I'm not really worried about it. A lot of people think these are performance enhancing and they're already illegal if taken for an unfair advantage in competitions. I think the conclusion that it works has already been drawn by lots of other people in this field.
  • - 1
 @lukey1: it's like looking at a 1 figure showing that a treatment reduced amyloid beta staining and say "oh this treatment totally cure Alzheimer ".
Not worth arguing more, you make a terrible scientist
  • + 4
 As for my "science", I don't rely on personal anecdotes, but real scientific studies. Speaking of real science, here, knock yourself out, a little light reading for you:

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9819287
www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16195983
www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16687481
www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2564312
www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11071049
www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4933613

If anyone is saying that this finding relies on "one study", they are being willfully ignorant.
  • + 19
 As professional athletes, they are responsible for what they ingest. We have all (well maybe not) seen the movies about Armstrong and have seen roadies literally crying in denial, only to come clean some time later.
Is anyone actually surprised? When there's money and fame on the line, people will always cheat. What we have to do is push for a zero tolerance policy so the potential upside of cheating is far outweighed by the downside of being caught.
I really hope that EWS stand by what they have said in their own rulebook. Really shitty for the riders involved. Even more shitty for clean riders who finish behind them.
  • + 2
 ^^^This. As a professional athlete, you, and you alone are 100% responsible for what passes into your body. Think of it as part of your job.
  • + 22
 Let's all not jump to conclusions here
  • + 24
 Boring >.>
  • + 19
 Taking drugs by accident only works in some places like Ibiza or a Rave party in the woods you know....anything else is not a true accident.
  • + 13
 Think Critically! The "contaminated supplement" argument came from Richie/Jared/Specialized/Yeti. They have had months since July to debate and consider what the media message is that is disseminated by them. It's the BEST message since there are actually are reports of supplements being contaminated by Oxilofrine so readers and fans get sidetracked by this from the get-go. On the other hand, Oxilofrine is a well known day-of-competition stimulant made famous by the 2013 Track and Field scandal that brought doping bans to 100m sprinters Tyson Gay and Asafa Powell. The key point that is missing here is that Oxilofrine is a well known stimulant, that is banned, and has tarnished the careers of at least three world class sprinters. The "contaminated supplement" argument is the go-to fall-back story for this drug. I'm not saying RR & JG popped pills, or actually accidentally ingested the Oxi in a supplement. I'm just saying you need to QUESTION THE WELL CRAFTED MEDIA MESSAGE DISSEMINATED BY THE ACCUSED.
  • + 17
 That's just rude
  • + 12
 and Jared
  • + 11
 Ryno = Snake oil

If some supplement claiming to enhance performance actually does enhance performance superior to regular foodstuffs it is per se doping and must contain illegal substances to pyrvey this effect.

These poor athletes would not have been the first to fall into this trap as many olympians before them have blindly trusted their supplement sponsor.

If you want to keep your path clean; train, eat regular food, and drink water.
  • + 13
 Google states higenamine also helps you get a boner.
Not sure this is relavant but we can’t rule out the possibility of aerodynamic advantage in the trouser department
  • + 14
 Shocking really. Who would've thought? LOL
  • + 9
 Well this sucks.
Pro cycling lost all credibility for me after supposedly clean cyclists, who had never tested positive admitted to taking painkillers and diet-suppression pills to increase the effects of their training and improve their time-trial performance. I was shocked that such methods were considered 'legal' And yet it's no surprise that Pro cycling and road cycling in general has such a bad rap.
As much as I like Richie and respect Graves, the book must be thrown at them for the sake of the sport. To have 2 former champions (and former team-mates), who by all accounts are the most physically imposing of all of those competing at EWS tainted by a PED scandal makes a mockery of the idea of a fair and level playing field. Whether they simply made a mistake, or pushed their supplements to the limit, if this is not dealt with harshly, then what's to stop others from taking deliberate actions to cheat? And where would that end? The powers that be must decide what kind of sport they would like Enduro to be in 10 years, and to take whatever action is necessary to ensure that it remains true to that vision.
  • + 13
 Yay! Two new training partners for Emily Batty!
  • + 9
 Happens in any other sport you all cry about them being cheats etc...... Happens to mountain bikers and suddenly the sytem is flawed and it can't be true because it is just maybe, possibly, from a supplement blah blah blah.....
  • + 12
 Sad times, no excuses, boot them out and move on.
  • + 10
 Rude positiv ? what a surprise !
Since this video, I had doubts : www.youtube.com/watch?v=Eg_vlPvGOPc
  • + 2
 It is perfectly possible without drugs. The stage was 9 min long and they only have 20s difference, plus booth athletes have completely different body shape. If you are in a peak form and mentally boost you are perfectly capable of having such performance. I know for myself. The hard thing is keeping this peak form all year long... and that is what seems EWS athletes are really strugling too... difficult to have all the qualities that top EWS demands all year long...
  • + 10
 And the conversion to roadies with fat tyres is complete.... Pretty disappointed in MTB this morning.
  • + 1
 Yup.
  • + 8
 I think getting all the athletes competing a particular race serie on the same juice, is the only practical (and entertaining) form of fighting doping.
Yeah, i'm almost serious
  • + 4
 ebike racing you mean!
  • + 7
 You mean like road cycling?
  • + 1
 @Plancktonne: yeah, but broadly massive!
  • + 2
 Yeah it’s called the protour, FIFA, NFL, MLB, NBA, and NHL
  • + 10
 Is this more ad based content? Where can I buy higenamine and oxilofrine? Is there a Cyber Monday coupon that I missed?
  • + 10
 So many pharmacists among us
  • + 10
 "Well that escalated quickly."
  • + 10
 How do I get these supplements? I’ve got a race coming up!
  • + 6
 "Testing does not mean guilty" says the article. Well no of course it doesnt.

A positive test result for banned substances does however.

I imagine he grey area being that at the time of these tests the EWS was not affiliated with the UCI. I would hope the EWS does have a zero tolerance policy.

Is it not the responsibility of the athletes to make sure they are not taking anything containing such substances? And as I would think the answer is yes, the onus is on them to prove they took it accidentally.
  • + 14
 From the article: "Regardless of the riders' intent, the WADA guidelines are clear that they operate under a principle of ‘strict liability,’ which means that athletes are responsible for what goes into their bodies, regardless of intent or knowing use.

Whether the riders intentionally ingested the substances or not (either through negligence or tainted supplements), WADA's stance is that they're responsible for what they've ingested."
  • + 2
 Each EWS events are ruled by the local federation. In France enduro mtb is recognized by FFC so they carry out tests like they do in most races : podium + randoms draw.
  • + 14
 From the EWS 2018 Rulebook: (cached as the live is 404) webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:v7xQkyRDkRYJ:www.enduroworldseries.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/03/EWS_Rules_2018_compressed.pdf+&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=uk "a ny cyclist, regardless of cycling discipline, who has previously been found guilty by any court or regulatory body of anyuse of or involvement with banned, performance enhancing drugs will not be entitled to compete ortake part in any Enduro World Series event"

As sad as it is, this really needs to be a career ending decision by the riders if the EWS has any chance of trying to maintain a clean reputation.
  • + 4
 @kiksy:

This. They’ve backed themselves into a corner on this one.
  • + 3
 @kiksy: oooooooft. and this may mark the point where our governing bodies prove themselves to be wavering in their rules or holding steadfast. the implicatons and ramifcations are pretty big for the athlete and the organisation
  • + 1
 @gramboh: yep. This need to be dealt with according to those rules. Could they be saved by the fact their is a good chance the rules will be overhauled or at least reviewed with the upcoming UCI involvement? I.e they may only get a temporary ban?
  • + 2
 @gramboh: some of you are quoting only part of the EWS doping policy, the final paragraph of which clearly provides a right to appeal and for the possibility of exemption at the discretion of the EWS board (precisely so they would not be automatically backed into a corner by their own policy):

"Any cyclist prevented from competing or taking part in any Enduro World Series event by virtue of the foregoing paragraph may appeal to the Board of EWS for exemption from that rule and in exceptional circumstances the Board of EWS may at its absolute discretion grant such an exemption. However, in the interests of transparency within the sport of enduro mountain bike racing, the Board of EWS reserve the right to maintain a zero tolerance approach to drug taking in cycling and will communicate any appeal decision publicly."
  • + 2
 @general-lee: you either "maintain a zero tolerance approach to drug taking " or you don't. There's no halfway.
  • + 8
 i saw richie rude pedaling up in Finale Ligure. His legs always streaked his seat post while pedaling.. i dont think you get that only with cereals :-)
  • + 26
 I got attacked and laughed at in the comments when I suspected Richie was on some kind of gear. Well thank you all for nothing.
  • + 4
 @colincolin: thats not very nice. imagine how the criminal courts worked if we jailed everyone that some random poster on a forum aired their suspicions that "Xname" was a criminal.
  • + 7
 He was already a beast as junior. His whole family is looking like this, his sister would probably beat us up.
m.pinkbike.com/news/A-Day-in-the-Life-with-Richie-Rude-Jr-World-Champion-2013.html
  • + 16
 For what it's worth, when I was racing Juniors, Richie was just getting into downhill. He's always had a beefy build; at 11 years old, he looked 18.
  • + 2
 Is quie unfair for a clear nature gifted guy like Richey that now everything is thx to drugs... I would recommend to stop being cruel innescesary.
  • + 4
 @PhilKmetz: @HCbmx666 definitely had the most disappointing comment. I met Richie when he was 14. He could have played middle linebacker for a college at the time. He is a really, really big kid.
  • + 2
 Yes he has a naturally mesomorphic which is why it's highly inconceivable that he could compete in multi-day endurance cycling events.
  • + 11
 grabbing popcorn...
  • + 8
 I just want my weekly bike review. Also, Keene didnt build his jawline by chewing gum. Just sayin...
  • + 5
 Focus on the known facts:
1. a sport with little prior drug testing
2. enormous financial rewards for winning
3. one athlete (Rude) often performing at another level from his competition
4. dude built like a f*cking linebacker but destroying his top competitors on long steep climbs.

I mean, duh.
  • + 11
 Maybe time we paid a little more attention to what Damien Oton said about this ridiculousness at La Thuille EWS:
www.youtube.com/watch?v=Eg_vlPvGOPc

Here's the questions and answers:

Q: On his Instagram Marco Osborne has a video from La Thuile, where Richie passes you on a climb, and then passes Jerome as well. Obviously, to catch Jerome, that's a good run 99% of the time, so to then have Richie come past both of you, how does that feel from your side?

A. It was unbelievable [laughs]. I was in super good shape, because I was working with my coach towards this race, and I said, "I want to be fast here." On the climb, I felt super strong. I dropped two or three gears, I felt like I had a lot of power. I saw Jerome just in front of me, like fifteen seconds ahead, so I said, "Yes, I'm fast. Let's go!" And just boom! [laughs] Like, what? What was that!? It was crazy. And then I was second at the bottom. And he passed me, and like was 32 seconds in front of me, and I said, "Oh, Damn. Maybe I feel good, but maybe I am not." And I see the results and I say, "What, I'm second?!" It's just a tough one.

Q. Does that give you more motivation?

A. Yeah, definitely. It definitely gives me more motivation. I say, "Okay, I need to train harder." But to be honest, it was just crazy. It was not a small stage, it was maybe 8 or 10 minutes, and the climb was steep. Normally when it's not so steep Richie is super strong, I guess because he's heavy and he has a lot of power. But that one was steep, so I say that's more for me because I'm light and I have less weight to climb. But no, definitely not... It was crazy."

I mean, duh.
  • + 5
 Hard to imagine a fellow competitor saying "he's doping" much clearer than that.
  • + 2
 Rude is widely reportedly to be 5-11 and by his own account weighs about 200 pounds.

Oton is 5-6. And the other guy Rude is annihilating in that video is Jerome Clementz. Clementz finished 3rd on the stage, right behind Oton. (Sam Hill was 2nd overall but 24th on that stage.) Clementz is 5-5, 137 pounds.

Like Oton said with a laugh, it was unbelievable.
  • + 4
 @Phillyenduro: if anyone 200lbs is winning an uphill race I would strongly suspect doping, there is a reason they make a clysdale class for XC.
  • + 1
 @Phillyenduro: Rude has slimmed down over time, much less of a tank now than he was 4 years ago
  • + 3
 @mbikes1: Not 4 years ago, he said he was about 200 lbs (and that Graves was "around the high 170s") in 2016, which is the same year as the race shown in the video where he nuked the best enduro climbers in the world on a long steep climb. Nice try, though.
  • + 5
 Maybe time we paid a little more attention to what Damien Oton this ridiculousness at La Thuille EWS:
www.youtube.com/watch?v=Eg_vlPvGOPc

Here's the questions and answers:

Q: On his Instagram Marco Osborne has a video from La Thuile, where Richie passes you on a climb, and then passes Jerome as well. Obviously, to catch Jerome, that's a good run 99% of the time, so to then have Richie come past both of you, how does that feel from your side?

A. It was unbelievable [laughs]. I was in super good shape, because I was working with my coach towards this race, and I said, "I want to be fast here." On the climb, I felt super strong. I dropped two or three gears, I felt like I had a lot of power. I saw Jerome just in front of me, like fifteen seconds ahead, so I said, "Yes, I'm fast. Let's go!" And just boom! [laughs] Like, what? What was that!? It was crazy. And then I was second at the bottom. And he passed me, and like was 32 seconds in front of me, and I said, "Oh, Damn. Maybe I feel good, but maybe I am not." And I see the results and I say, "What, I'm second?!" It's just a tough one.

Q. Does that give you more motivation?

A. Yeah, definitely. It definitely gives me more motivation. I say, "Okay, I need to train harder." But to be honest, it was just crazy. It was not a small stage, it was maybe 8 or 10 minutes, and the climb was steep. Normally when it's not so steep Richie is super strong, I guess because he's heavy and he has a lot of power. But that one was steep, so I say that's more for me because I'm light and I have less weight to climb. But no, definitely not... It was crazy."

I mean, duh.
  • + 1
 Crap, can't delete this one.
  • + 1
 Yeah that tells you all you need to know. Reminds me of the old George Carlin routine. [Search "Ah! He's full of shit!" on YouTube.]
  • + 5
 Has anyone here heard of a phrase called "Innocent until proven guilty". Dark days that we allow speculation and incomplete processes to potentially taint the reputation of two of the best athletes the sport has seen.

Now if they turn out at a later time to have no excuse and further confirmation of their guilt, so be it. Let them take the appropriate punishment.

But, ethically wouldn't it be a good idea to wait until full details are available before throwing them under the bus, especially when one is recovering from major surgery and about to start long term chemotherapy?
  • + 7
 They have been caught failing the drug test. There is no speculation on that aspect, only fact. Whether or not it was intentional isn't clear, but either way they need to be punished to set an example. Simply accepting "I didn't know I was taking it" allows carte blanche for anyone to use that excuse and the EWS will end up like the Tour.
  • + 2
 @kiksy: the regulations on doping specifically state that it is the athlete's responsibility to control what goes into their body, accidental ingestion and deliberate ingestion are treated the same way but the anti-doping bodies.
  • + 2
 They do need to have “their day in court” so to speak. However, they both tested positive. It’s like having a bike stolen and seeing a guy on it three weeks later. There are questions that need answers.
  • + 5
 Honestly if they were actually doping they are both scrubs, and it sounds like they both were. Let’s get real they didn’t accidentally take those substances. Get the hell outta our sport and go race road bikes if your gonna dope a*sholes!
  • + 6
 Accidental ingestion is a joke for professional athletes. Every single thing these guys ingest is obviously heavily researched and planned. Just like the small (not small enough) amounts of Higenamine and Oxilofrine.
  • + 5
 Sorry - you guys doped and it was intentional - not accidental. How do you get that shit accidentally and then accidentally get it in you? Not buying it, but they did. It's too bad, but to say everyone is doing it, no big deal, whatever, just keeps the fuel burning. Pulling a Lance Armstrong is pretty sad, and if you can't compete on raw strength through training and talent, step aside.
  • + 5
 HIGENAMINE
"fat burner (...)come from a variety of sources including fruit and orchids (...) Related to improved vasodilatory signals, higenamine has been shown in animal modeks to (...) contribute to enhanced vasodilation and arterial integrity"

OXILOPHRINE
" is a stimulant drug and is an amphetamine chemically related to ephedrine and to synephrine"
"Oxilofrine is thought to increase adrenaline production, boosting endurance, focus, alertness and heart rate and increasing oxygenation of the blood(...)However, there is a greater likelihood that these substances could be susceptible to a credible non-doping explanation"
  • + 4
 Both oxygen uptake benefit. Essential when you've got a far lower power to weight than other riders.
  • + 6
 Reminds of that time I found and are my older sisters secret stash of cookies....
Shame there's no "World Series" for prolonged dream-state sedation...

#lookingforsponsor
  • + 4
 So let me get this straight: A race series has no doping control whatsoever and doesn't even tell athletes what they can/can't take and people are shocked that someone tested positive for something when someone finally showed up with a test kit??
And it's almost 2019 and they couldn't find ONE female official to test the female competitors?!

I'm curious to find out who else tested positive and for what. The EWS is a business with professionals trying to make a living. This was bound to come up sooner than later, and leaving it up to the 'spirit of enduro' was a pipedream.
  • + 4
 If you are involved in any sport at a level where you are going to be tested the first rule is do not take supplements! Supplements are contaminated all the time. Even supplements that have been "certified" as clean have been contaminated.

Both of these guys have raced in sports (DH, BMX) where there is drug testing, and their national governing bodies would have made them take an anti-doping course. They should known better. Yet they still took supplements knowing the risk. Why, because they were looking for an advantage.

If anybody is interested it is super easy to see if any drug you are taking is on the banned list. Go to www.globaldro.com/Home
Anybody who competes in a sport that is part of the WADA code should check anything they take against this.
  • + 4
 What a shit.
As much as they both seem like amazing ambassadors for enduro (and other bike disciplines), the pressure to get that extra 1% may have got to them. So sad with gravey given his cancer treatment and rude because he seems very humble.
  • + 5
 Finally.
Jared dropped a nice big pot of pills out the back of his jersey right in front of me during a stage in Maderia (2017). With Richie being a unit and so close to him- no surprises.
  • - 5
flag YoKev (Nov 26, 2018 at 0:43) (Below Threshold)
 ['KUSHTY']
No you're mistaken.
That was monkeys flying out of his ass.
If you had chosen to wear an aluminum foil hat that day instead of the tin foil hat you put on, you would've clearly seen it.
  • + 2
 @YoKev: you're right, my mistake
  • - 5
flag WAKIdesigns (Nov 26, 2018 at 1:14) (Below Threshold)
 Administering PEDs during the race... KUSHTY, get a life. An average15 year old knows it's not how you take them and not how they work. At this time you probably still believed that storks bring kids.
  • + 3
 @WAKIdesigns: I'm sure it was just paracetamol...
  • + 12
 There's a heap of supplements that come in pill form that are still allowed for in-competition use.
  • + 1
 @DJR9000: I am aware. Anyway, would rather this story hadn't come out, just from my naive opinion- i'm not surprised.
  • - 20
flag WAKIdesigns (Nov 26, 2018 at 1:44) (Below Threshold)
 @KUSHTY: magnesium, salts, all sorts of micronutrients, and BTW creatine and beta alanine are nootropics. When do we ban them? Maybe caffeine too? Should they all be forced to keto diet? I tell you what, 99.9999% of folks here wouldn't get anywhere close to their level even if they had all the juice in the world. same case as with Lance, if you call him a cheater, take all the sht he took and get to where he was. Good f*cking luck.
  • + 13
 @WAKIdesigns: actually, that’s bullshit. There’s no reason to take the second (amphetamine) putside of race day unless you’re going to accept the ‘we shared tainted supplements’ argument that’s already being loaded.

You’re incorrectly assuming these riders are assuming the same testing paradigm as uci athletes on road/mtb/bmx (which as a BMX Olympian, Graves is definitely aware of). It’s been openly discussed for a long time that EWS is very different.

I like them both, but that doesn’t mean they’re not responsible for their behaviour.
  • + 6
 @heinous: correct, i have an amphetamin prescription because of my autistic/ads thingy. at least my stuff only works for a couple of hours. if i wanted the effect to last a full ews day i would have to take at least one pill during the race (they last 3-4 hours in average)
  • + 1
 Paracetamol?
  • + 14
 @WAKIdesigns: "Administering PEDs during the race... KUSHTY, get a life. An average15 year old knows it's not how you take them and not how they work. At this time you probably still believed that storks bring kids."

You're wrong. Or you're confused. Or both. Sure probably nobody takes anabolic steroids or testosterone during a race...or EPO. But stimulants for both mental and physical advantages? Adderall? Bronchodilators? Of course they do it during a race. How dumb can you be? You're trying to prove how much you know and you just failed miserably.

You just called someone out saying that they got something wrong that a 15 year old would know....and made a fool of yourself. How embarrassing.
  • + 2
 @tincancharlie: just for the sake of correctness, all kinds of athletes from different disciplines use testosterone with no ester (TNE) before competitions. Mostly sprinters and team sports players, especially since the half life of TNE metabolites is so short
  • + 1
 @Mntneer: not challenging your statement but can you qualify "before competitions" because that could mean an hour before or a month before
  • + 2
 @tincancharlie: good point. An hour before and even during competition are typical.
  • + 2
 so a PED like testosterone can be taken right before an event for increased performance. Or even during an event (such as a 2 days event like EWS - not saying that is what what Rude and Graves did). So add testosterone to PEDs such as stimulants and bronchodilators that can give an advantage when taken just prior or during an race. This just further refutes Waki's childish yelling about how PEDs aren't used during a race. Maybe he was being sarcastic.

Anabolic steroids and EPO and testosterone will all of course offer advantages when taken while training. Taking stimulants and bronchodilators could theoretically have a benefit during training but those would likely be minimal benefits compared to the boost in performance they might give during an actual race (I'll point out before someone else does that a bronchodilator would give training benefits to someone with asthma and stimulants would help someone with ADHD who is also in training)
  • + 3
 so IF they both are found to be guilty of taking PED's then they must be stripped of their previous results and titles ( Ala Armstrong ) and the second place rider should be given the title/race wins in this case ( not that they would likely want to win this way).
Shame if this turns out to be fact as it will wipe out majority of the men's EWS' history!

EWS will have to come down hard on them if the claims are found to be true to have any credibility after this....
  • + 1
 Armstrongs results were stripped because his samples from the tours he won all tested positive. There's not indication of that here so stripping previous results would be pretty unheard of.
  • + 2
 @kingtut87: good point i didnt think of it that way but the shadow is now cast.
  • + 7
 "Spirt of Enduro" that's a funny joke.

Free Brock Tickle.
  • + 3
 Elite athletes competing at the World level have no excuse for accidental ingestion. I actually loose a lot of respect for any athlete who chooses this excuse even if true. This is your job and hopefully your passion. You need to know what is in EVERYTHING you injest or inject or snort or stick up your... never mind.

I’m sad for the results and I’m sure the consequences will make no one happy.
  • + 3
 It really sucks, I'd love to be on the riders side but it's going really difficult to pull it off. 2 riders with some significant physical abilities, known to train together failing the same test for the same products. What are the odd?
I honestly don't want to see them racing ever. I'm really sorry but they blew it off and took the wrong turn.
It's so bitter to see especially after all the love and support these 2 received from the fans, the community.
These 2 guys will have to reinvent themselves outside of racing. I won't support them and their support until they redeem themselves on some positive way. We also need to think about the other racers that have been robbed.
As a community, for the sponsors and clean athletes, we need to make it loud and clear that fans don't tolerate doping.
  • + 3
 guilty or not, intentional or not, this is likely to be an absolute shit show for Rude and Graves. See exhibit A and B, Broc Tickle and Cade Clason in Moto, both of whom have been ignored by WADA since their finding. Neither have had their appeal heard in a year, both held out of competition, and neither can race even an unsanctioned event without it adding to their ultimate sentence. Brutal for enduro
  • + 6
 Which supplements have the most Higenamine and Oxilofrine. Asking for a friend
  • + 2
 It’s all very suspicious and regardless of what happens moving forward the legacy of these two riders will be tarnished forever. I’m a huge fan of both but it’s highly questionable considering they’re good friends and both tested positive for the same banned substances.

What’s most important is Jared’s health. Get well soon, man.
  • + 2
 Isn't everything you put in your body a supplement? Everything we drink or eat, including water, has a reaction with our body... water, carbs, starches, caffeine, crack, pancakes, laffy taffy... where does it end?

Isn't eating a bag of skittles before a race illegal? should be...

I mean unless you drink your own urine for fuel, you gotta get stuff from elsewhere...
  • + 1
 What you put in your body today may be legal according to WADA, but next year you could be disqualified, banned and shamed from the sport forever.
  • + 2
 @mikelevy: You said: "With two riders returning AAFs and four more confirming their tests, that leaves three other riders who have yet to confirm they were tested and, more importantly, confirm that they didn't fail". If they weren't notified of any AAF, they don't need to announce either. Pretty standard stuff ;-)
  • + 5
 Many a great riders that are “nice/decent/reputable” people have been caught doping.
  • + 2
 Just bought some pre-workout with:

Higenamine HCL 50mg
Synephrine HCL 30mg

So easy. I had to check the ingredients list carefully to get it.
Lets see if it makes me faster !

ps: Oxyliphrene/Synephrine has been found in many pre-workout gear without being on the ingredient list.... easy to make the mistake of ingesting it.
  • + 6
 Every part of this story makes me sad.
  • + 5
 Love both these racers, but throw the book at them. Doping is bullshit. Test the entire top 20 at every event.
  • + 3
 They basically got popped for the equivalent of an inhaler and a can of cheap redbull. I'm shocked they were not on the good shit. Bet Keane was stoked to not be tested with them!
  • + 2
 This is worth a read, and went almost entirely unreported in cycling media. Not that it changes anything regarding the questions raised regarding two of the biggest stars in our sport, but it should underscore that this situation is guaranteed to be handled in inexcusably poor fashion by the "professionals".

www.theguardian.com/sport/2018/oct/29/wada-unfit-for-purpose-claim-athletes-anti-doping-agencies
  • + 2
 This is why I stopped watching pro road racing many years ago--everyone doped. Really disappointed to hear Richie tested positive. I still love my new Yeti, but hope the company considers that having dirty athletes ultimately is worse for the brand. Really surprised you need a stimulant to ride faster downhill. I thought you just needed to let off the brakes?
  • + 3
 No such thing as clean! You don’t become Superman naturally! These supplements are great for everyone! Get you some! Best bike upgrade you can do! And your partner will enjoy it too! Just ask these guys!
  • + 2
 Completely ignorant to punish an athlete for over the counter, NON-percscription supplement use. There has to be some simplification of the banned substance list. If you get caught taking some shit you need a prescription to acquire LEGALLY, and don’t have that prescription- THAT is a failed doping test. Banned for some shit that’s in fatburners at GNC, energy drinks at 7/11, Come on... these guys didn’t test positive for clenbuterol! Now that’s a f’n fat burner! Dexedrine, that’s a damn stimulant! This is beyond silly to penalize such elite, accomplished, respected athletes for something they and a multitude of other riders probably picked up locally (ready to drink energy drink, single serve powdered pre-workout,etc) hoopefully people can put their self righteousness away for long enough to see how lame failing a DOPING test for some stuff a child can buy at vitamin shoppe really is....These guys are phenomenal athletes and should be viewed as such.
  • + 9
 I think you need to think more critically. Track and Field loved Oxilonphrine in 2013 as the preferred day-of-competiion stimulant and there was a massive scandal (Tyson Gay, Asafa Powell). Oxi is not new at all. Mountain Biking has just never heard of it. The go-to-excuse here was "it must have been inadvertently in a supplement". There are articles out there that supplements have been found with traces of Oxi in them. This is the perfect fall-back excuse, take the Oxi reap the adrenaline-boosting benefits and if you get caught you have a fall-back story. Also remember the Jared and Richie had had since July to carfefully craft their responses in the pinkbike articles, and it is no accident the message comes directly from the riders with only minimal input from their lawyers to maintain the feeling of 'honesty' from the riders.
  • + 2
 Ahh yes bicycle racing keeps digging a deeper hole for itself.. with the knowledge of what has gone on with sports and drug testing in cycling all racers have no excuse really for not paying attention to what they put in their mouth. So tired of it must of been something I ate? Duh. Really it’s been a bit overused, think of something unique next time.
  • + 2
 The bigger problem for these guys is there is basically no regulations regarding supplements... You really don't know what is in them.. Plus, most common cold medications will make you fail a piss test.. As for the comment at the end of the article about Rude racing DH , that would be a negative... I am sure his suspension will cover any UCI sanctioned races...
  • + 2
 Bill Burr said it best!
Everyone should be on dope, the competition would be nuts! Bike components have not gotten any stronger or that much better with the years, so imagine what all those dopes would do to a bike. They'd taco a wheel and eat it after! Sram would finally have a true statement why they came up with a new "standard". They could then have a competition like the WRC, which dope brand has the best athlete, so they get "builder points". The amount of money that could be raked in is insane, they could be followed by drones and dudes on motos, trying to keep up with a 29er Big Grin Brilliant!
  • + 3
 Unpopular opinion but..... Sometimes I wish there were separate leagues for sports where doping was allowed just to push competition to the absolute limit. Like, imagine the NFL but with open steroid use haha
  • + 3
 You would think it was an unpopular opinion but still every other comment here seems keen for that. Powerlifting does this, you have tested and untested powerlifting federations. There is still a problem with people trying to sneak into tested feds when they are not clean. That would be the case if the same was true in any sport and all it offers is a legal testing ground for the drugs people then use to cheat the tested leagues. If you want the dopers to have even more funding then this is the way to go, if you want to push them back into the shadows where they belong and, maybe even one day stamp out the cheaters then keep all sports tested and make their lives as difficult as possible.
  • + 6
 Anyone else looking up where to buy Higenamine and Oxilofrine?
  • + 5
 I am.. it sounds actually like a pretty rad drug!
  • + 2
 It is such a shame that athletes can inadvertently take a substance and test positive. If testing was cheaper and quicker then teams could test their riders and have an open book policy.

The worrying thing from the test is that of 9 riders tested, 3 were found to have positive samples. Surely this would prompt the sport and WADA to test a significantly higher number of riders, I mean if 33% of the field has potentially taken a substance of some form that may or may not enhance their performance, there is a worry for the integrity of the results at these events! Personally I would love to see 100% testing of all protected riders throughout the season and the top 10 at least tested to ensure that the sport is cleaner. Even if the majority of cases of a positive test are down to inadvertent consumption.

The statement at the end of the article would make a joke of the system if you can just move sports! A ban should be a ban I am afraid.

Richie, on the other hand, would no doubt be racing if there isn't an enforced timeout of some sort. However, one possible outcome could be that his EWS sanction is longer than the AFLD/WADA sanction. If that's the case, will we see him racing World Cup downhill instead?

There is no place in sport for drugs, off season or during the season.
I remember (being an asthmatic myself) hearing of a road cyclist doing really will in a race and he took his inhaler enough in a single day that most asthmatics would have been in hospital bed and pretty much passing out all the time due to the lack of oxygen in our systems, yet he pleaded his innocence. Cheating is cheating...
  • + 1
 in response to your last bit, I was just getting serious about riding in the late 80's. While in a bike shop where a local up an coming road racer worked weekends, we had an interesting convo about him using his sisters asthma inhalers in local club level events... The sport is Infested with it, at ALL levels club am to full WC Pro. allways has been allways will be
  • + 4
 @nojzilla: Arguably, the desire to win is a gateway drug in itself...
  • + 1
 @BenPea: thing is, there's some that would argue if it's so bad then it's a level playing field! I kinda agree....
But then it comes down to who can afford the best dope an the best avoidance of getting caught out!
Smile
  • + 4
 @nojzilla: I don't think Graves and Rude are the poor guys not being able to afford masking drugs! They just got caught!
  • + 9
 @nojzilla: The level playing field thing is a fallacy, not only for those reasons, but because some competitors might do just a little bit of dope ("hey a little bit won't hurt, plus it's permitted so fock it"), while others, the proper psycho win-at-all cost machines of sport, will seriously poison themselves trying to squeeze out the last drop of performance. This isn't just bioengineering, it's about psychology, and we all know how messed up the human brain can be and how insane the impulses to act can be in certain individuals. Doping bans at least send out the message that it's not ok, which will never lead to totally clean sport but will at least put the idea in people's minds that cheating isn't great and that some of these substances can damage your body and mind. Legalise it all and you'll have sick and dead people all of the place, which is hard to argue for (Waki, your move ;-) )
  • + 2
 @BenPea: .... this... i love!!. you've just changed my world view. i have a decent argument for removing drugs bans....... but your argument helps put the lid back on it.
  • + 4
 one thing is for sure. MOST competitive athletes ain't doin it on meat an two veg! It's amazing the stuff anybody can legitimately get hold of in the high street!!!
don't get me wrong I'm against it but then i'm not a world class racer with sponsorship's an podium £$£$ on the line.
Another thing I find suspicious.. is how fast some athletes come back from serious injury................?
  • + 1
 @BenPea: Dead people support global cooling. Though it would be progress if those who test positive for wanting to win are conscripted to psychotherapeutic rehabilitation
  • + 1
 @ceecee: "Dead people support global cooling" - only once decomposition is complete, which can take a while if properly mummified. And there's "wanting to win" and "WANTING TO f*ckIN WIN!!!"
  • + 2
 Taking amphetamine is pretty bold, no questions about that. I don't think that even in the most dirty sports racers are so audacious. No problem with the asthma drug, though. They just forgot to bring a note from the doctor, like Froomie and half of other competitors in any aerobic based racing.
  • + 1
 To me... unless you're testing EVERY athlete then you can not keep these chose few accountable. You can make an example of them by saying... hey... we're testing and here's what we found in these dudes. Starting the 2019 season we'll be taking sample before and after every race and the punishments are as follows. Until they do that they can screw off. At this point all they're trying to do is look good as an organization because they haven't done squat... ever.
  • + 1
 Im sure they have a team working with them now to prove it was possible to ingest these drugs, every other doper went about protesting their innocence the same way. And im sure the same team will find some kind of plausible explanation.
  • + 1
 I know nothing of the topic of doping but I do know this... Scottish Skier Alan Baxter was stripped of his Olympic Medal after testing positive to a banned substance. It was clearly proven that he had used a vicks nasel inhaler for a stuffy nose.
The banned substance was not in the item when sold in the uk but was when he used in the country he was competing in.

He and his coach took full responsibility for the mistake.

It seems pretty easy as an athlete in a sport that doesn’t have millions to spend on nutritionists etc (I bet a premier football player earning top level salary wouldn’t make the same error) it’s to cock things up for yourself.
  • + 1
 For anything in life, it takes talent, hard work and opportunity.

You miss one of those ingredients, forget about being at the top.

Consider any drugs an opportunity. Doesn’t replace talent and hard work.

Also, the amount of shit there is in every, I wouldn’t be surprised if I am on drugs every minute of the day.

And I wouldn’t come close to the top 100 riders at an EWS!

Just stop giving a voice of reason for being “clean”. Pretty much impossible.

Lol
  • + 1
 I hope for some good luck to both, in dealing with WADA. They are the authority here and have a poor reputation for cooperating with and even simple communication with athlets. There have been a few athletes from other sports that have recently had their careers essentially finished prematurely, due to lack of available process and access to info, after potentially testing positive. WADA sentencings are cretailed for olympic competition and therefor the competition bans they hand out are devastating for these other non Olympic sports. 4 year bans....18 month suspensions prior to final decisions. Timelines that end careers in these extreme sports.
  • + 1
 Social Media Response today (you can't make this up), Richie: charitable support for spinal cord injuries. Yeti: Charitable Support for trail advocacy. Specialized: How Specialized Foundation is helping youth. Jared's post about his fight of course so no surprise there. What AAFs? Deflect. Distract.
  • + 4
 Or perhaps they are just carrying on with business as usual until the actual full facts and findings are released by the french agency and EWS (which is what both brands said in the press releases printed in this very article)... Also, every Red Bull athlete is promoting the wings for life charity today so maybe he got them all in on the conspiracy?
  • + 2
 I keep seeing #GivingTuesday, so maybe it's some kind of social media hashtag trend?
  • + 1
 It's #GivingTuesday in the US.

It's as if everyone on PB has suddenly become a detective looking for any signs of a cover up.
  • + 1
 I'll be honest - I say let em' dope it up... shit gets awesome to watch when everyone is maxed-out and going for it. Look at baseball with Sosa/McGwire back in the late 90's early 00's; that was the best 4 years of baseball I ever watched.
  • + 1
 Couldn't agree more with this! Its exciting for us fans, let them go wild! If its legal, everyone would do it and we could save thousands of dollars and 'what if' investigations. End the end, we watch people smash rocks and go 19098432958 MPH, its more entertaining for us!
  • + 1
 FFS. The whole "win at any cost" excuse is rubbish. Any five year old knows if you "win" by cheating, you haven't won at all.
The only way to stamp this out is going to be, in ANY and EVERY race of any significance, 1st 2nd and 3rd get tested as they come off the podium, and some big bans get thrown around.
  • + 6
 Dailly was stolen !
  • + 1
 The real benefit of these drugs is not fat metabolism, but enhanced strength and endurance. The are most efficacious when orally administered, not inhaled. The study below was performed in recreationally trained humans, but the effect on time to exhaustion was very very very large.

www.physiology.org/doi/full/10.1152/jappl.2000.89.2.430
  • + 1
 Again look at the trainers not the athletes if you want to find the real culprit. funny nobody mentions this. Its not the racer it's his trainer they're putting their trust in.....I bet Aaron gwin on same shit. ththeththey all use that same fake ass moto trainer who doesnt know how a real mtb athlete trains. One big money grab
  • + 5
 Who cares... go ride your bike and do drugs.
  • + 1
 There’s at least one case of precedent for an athlete testing positive and being able to blame their supplement maker. Look up “hammer nutrition doping” on google, this was a bit of a talking point in 2008 when this happened. I remember racers being scared to use hammer stuff back then because of it.
  • + 4
 All drug takers found in sport should be finished in the sort no matter who they are.
  • - 1
 By definition caffeine is a drug so this is just absurd lol. Because new drugs are always coming out, the list of banned supplements is always changing. There isn't a professional cyclist on the Tour de France who doesn't take some sort of pre workout or cocktail of supplements, some of which could be banned next year but aren't this year.
  • + 3
 "You can't win Tour de France On Water!"
Those with best "Vitamin" win the game.
Professional Sport has been a joke for sometime.
  • + 1
 Supplements are basically bathtub concoctions with poor quality control, nothing like regulated pharmaceuticals. It's very easy to have some cross contamination when you are talking parts per billion. I'll also that these quantities have no performance benefits. If WADA or whoever is going to be testing for such miniscule amounts of substances with limited value to the athlete, they probably need to provide free testing of every batch of supplements that any athlete or trainer wishes to ingest. Look, if Rude or Graves were caught REALLY doping, I'd agree with a career damaging 1 year suspension or something. But it's clear that this sort of 'positive test' result could have came from any number of supplements that ALL the riders are commonly using of the same types.
  • + 4
 "....and that he didn’t knowingly take a banned substance. " What a joke !
  • + 1
 Pretty condeming article with interviews from Clementz and two other French officials. You need to run through a translator but it is worth the time. All of you who believe the supplements ‘party line’ need to ask when the last time a supplement had both Oxilofrine AND higenamine! www.bigbike-magazine.com/actu-olargues-fred-glo-cedric-carrez-jerome-clementz-jean-pierre-mondenard-expriment-les-tests-afld?fbclid=IwAR2i2wZlEXYcr4aIgKpbO7uXDeJ-q_lyAEhZ1CUOh_Zv4gFMd9IVFuJwOjE
  • + 1
 Big thing here is that is these guys wanted to actually cheat in a sport where there is little to no testing they would have done it properly! This is nothing more than an oversight of things on a list that you can buy over the counter without knowing. As you were.
  • + 1
 I got clean piss to sell if any of the "Big Name" guys want to buy. PM me. On another note, I'll be happy to replace anyone if they get dropped from their teams. I'm available....and have a clean system and will pass any required drug test. racerRANDY
  • + 2
 EWS is simply inconsistent & still developing its drug policy. Considering those facts is it really fair for EWS to lay down the law?
  • + 1
 Here it is... Certainly Epic boys who plays in these story ! www.instagram.com/p/BqnvSdEFaDC take a look at the comments from @velocaroux - velocaroux????Hello from Olargues ???????? #montagnesducaroux
  • + 1
 not acceptable in pro racing, should be banned for life and stripped off with all their titles just like Armstrong. These guys ruined the sport and respect for mountain bike world. Horrible example for athletes.
  • + 5
 the Mcrib is back!!
  • + 1
 I got some bad mcribbs last moday and they gave me violent food poisoning. I just started feeling better Saturday evening! Never again mcribbs.
  • + 2
 @panzer103: you are what you eat. Congratulations.
  • + 0
 Maybe that whole story was the reason for the move by the EWS towards UCI to be able to use their drug testing facilities during the season?!

And I think a lifetime ban from.all contests must be the answer from EWS. Especially as it is demanded by the rules.
Eating all kinds of supplements and strange powder shit is not the way to go. If you can't keep your fittnes level by eating healthy and normal food you can't claime to have taken illigeal substances by accident. It is just too obvious that if you get 3000kcal out of a teaspoon of white powder it's not normal and probably not very good for your body on the long run.
  • - 4
flag chri92 (Nov 26, 2018 at 2:46) (Below Threshold)
 It's not easy get your nutrition right, if you're traveling that much. Most of the athletes take supplements because of that.
  • + 1
 @chri92: oh please, my uncle was running amateur marathons and ultra marathons, and because of job he was always traveling, he never needed suplements of any kind. That are just excuses.
  • + 18
 WHAT???? @maxx-x honestly! see folks like you, that have no idea about hard training and sports nutrition!!!!! your soapbox rant makes sense to the plebs that know fukk all about sport, much like Hitlers rants made sense to the plebs that knew fukk all about human ethics.

getting 3000kcal out of a white powder is not normal because it doesnt exist. and your uneducated speech does nothing to clarify the truths in sports science. there is no athlete with a brain that doesnt focus on healthy eating first , then training and recovery , then basic supplement to keep them healthy like protein and carb mixes, then highly specifc training and recovery plans, before they get any where near specified subsatnces like beta alanine etc. never mind the illegal ones.

however rules are rules....... but these rules are arbitary descisions made at some point when the previous arbitary decision become untenable.

pre 1900 - it was seen as cheating if you trained for your sport in the olympics
mid 1900s, if you were paid to do a sport it was classed as cheating in the olympics (research -Jim thorpe)
1930s, Russia and eastern bloc start sports schools, and the olypmics has to start changing it ideals of professional athletes
mid 60s the banned susbstances starting in olympics
mid 70s, caffeine was introduced to the banned list
mid 80s, caffeine ban changed to stipulated amounts and professional athletes now allowed to enter
1988 - carl lewis and 100 other olympians fail drugtest - shortly after the rules were changed to his benefit
2002 - skier Alain baxter stripped of bronze medal due to having a cold/blocked nose and his brother buying the wrong type of nasal clearer from the pharmacy
2004, caffeine off the banned list........ a substance that is clinically proven to enhance athletes performance and increase metabolism, burn fat and increase focus.

at what point do you consider the following cheating

training for the sport
eating healthy for the sport
dieting for the sport
taking protein to aide recovery in a demanding training schedule
taking carb mixes during the event to maintain energy
taking specialist suppliments like caffeine, beta alanine, glucosamine, condensed beetroot juice, arginine etc
hiring a coach/trainer to get the best out of you
hiring a massuer to deal with your ailments
being on a team with chefs,doctors,physicians, masseurs and mechanics

high alititude training to get more oxygen in blood
barometric chamber to get more oxygen in the blood
blood doping to get more oxygen in the blood
taking EPO to get more oxygen in the blood

those last 4 are important..... the first 2 are legal but cost a shit load to implement and thus only available to the rich teams, the last 2 are illegal but very easy and cheap to do........ a system in place where only the rich teams can benefit from getting additional oxygen into the blood.

sorry thats my rant over
  • + 0
 @dumr666: I'm not trying to make excuses, just telling facts. Pro athletes take supplements, especially when they're travelling a lot. Period.
  • + 7
 @forkbrayker: at what point do you consider the following cheating?

When it's not allowed by the rules. I understand rules change thru time. But at any given time they are the same for everyone.
  • + 3
 @chri92: Let's not blur the lines between supplements and doping. This word is just used to make it sound softer. They are 2 different things.
  • + 0
 @max2max: , well this i cant argue with. my point being these rules change through time when it suits the governing bodies..... so Oxilofrine might be perfectly acceptable and legal in 5 years when they realise everyone is on it. thus creating a grey area of discussion........hence the "food for thought" rant i had to put up in response to maxx-x's "speak before thinking" comment

...... but at the end of the day, if the rule is you are not allowed to take a carb drink during the competition, then......well thats the rule, doesnt matter how silly you think the rule is and doesnt matter when they change the rule after the fact. ..... you are right - at that given moment everyone needs to compete under the same test conditions
  • + 4
 @forkbrayker: Blood doping and EPO may be cheap and readily available, but they also carry a significant risk of a premature and agonizing death. Many PEDs are banned for their health risks as much as their performance-enhancing properties. The backward thinking of 100 years ago has been replaced by scientific method. While not perfect, we're much more aware of the consequences/ risks of our actions, and our ignorance. Well, most of us are anyway...
  • + 1
 @forkbrayker: wine and beer in early TDF era.
  • + 1
 @forkbrayker: I'll take training for the sport. That's why 50:01 is so great. Are they training, or even practicing?
  • + 0
 As bleak as the outcome may appear, lets wait for all the elements to be presented before putting the blame on X,Y or Z.
Them two, or some one else, effective, deliberate doping in Enduro is only a matter of time; the sport is getting serious, venues are excruciating and every athlete gets older every year....
  • + 4
 1.2.3.. google ( where to buy Oxilofrine )
  • + 0
 So gutted to read this. As an American I can honestly say that Lance and his buddies completely ruined road cycling in this country as a viable sport. I’m not a roadie by any stretch. But one of the things I hate about roadies and road racing in general is that the doping culture is so accepted and so wide spread. MTB has been clean so far. Can’t say that for other major sports. My kids look up to these types of athletes because they’re all very humble (for the most part) affable, accessible, and clean honest athletes. If this was an honest mistake on the part of Rude and Graves then that’s fine. But if this was willful cheating then nothing short of an outright ban on both them is acceptable. This sport is the final bastion of honest athleticism. It needs to stay that way. Sorry. But doping is roadie crap.
  • + 5
 Riche Roid...
  • + 1
 ????????????????????
  • - 3
 @Ryancouch: be rude not too.... Gedditt ;-)
  • + 1
 Hahaha
  • + 1
 Anyone who has ever brought over the counter pre-workout supplements understands that these are regular ingredients .. not surprised at all. Probably were in the Ryno products.
  • + 6
 It'd be weird that workout supplements contains doping products since these are used by a lot of athletes
  • + 3
 I have not seen many these days that don't contain higenamine. Seems a staple since DMAA and DMHA got banned.
  • + 5
 remember jack3d?
  • + 5
 Jump on the Ryno Power site and check the ingredients. they have pretty much built a reputation on being banned substance free. Unlikely it was that IMO. Most of their athletes would be tested multiple times a year, they would have come up a long time ago...
  • + 1
 @SickEdit: That stuff was the goods!
  • + 1
 @SickEdit: That was the shit.
  • + 1
 Who gives a shit, let them dope and blow their hearts up if they choose too. So I guess now they will say doping gives you brain cancer. And Richie didn’t smoke the competition this year soooooo.
  • + 5
 Thank you, AFLD !
  • + 0
 Seems like a really big deal over the use of supplements. This is a great way to fuck up someomes careers. Both of those substances can be found in tons of performance supplements. Sounds like one big ghost hunt
  • + 1
 There has to be a line drawn between supplement which aids in training and performance enhancing drug which gives an unnatural advantage. The substances that they have tested positive for fall on the wrong side of that line. They might still be great for a strongman or powerlifter who competes in a less stringent federation though so the company making them still has a reason to put them in their supplements (if indeed that is how they came to be in the riders' systems)

It is down to every athlete to ensure that they do not take any banned substance for the sport they compete in, ignorance is not an excuse, mishap is not an excuse.
  • + 2
 Its already cyber-Monday and now this...This is definitely one of the more exciting Mondays in recent memory.
  • + 3
 Nothing but raw meat and beer for me. Eliminates the worry...
  • + 3
 "Get well soon Jared" that is all.
  • - 1
 Although the possibility of these 2 World Cup winners using banned substances is troubling, I think there is a distinction to make between doing it in MTB (Enduro Specifically), and doing it in Running, Swimming, etc. Mountain biking (Enduro & up) is divided substantially between having balls and skill, and cardio and that is so different than some other sports that are 100% Cardio and endurance. Sad to see the state of MTB like this and I hope it gets resolved for the better or worse.
  • + 1
 Reminds me of the John Tomac video that was on pb a while back

www.pinkbike.com/news/john-tomac-american-mountain-bike-legend-video.html
  • + 2
 At this point, Jared Graves could pop for crack-cocaine and I would still be rooting for him.
  • + 3
 Let the arm chair conspiracy theorists feed on the news..........
  • + 1
 I was really hoping for fun drugs like cocaine and weed. Why does mtn biking have to go the route of road cycling. I guess downhill is the only fun place left.
  • + 1
 And it starts.....so freaking lame. I hate testing agencies~ they are runining sports!!!!!

Wada can suck a gigantic testicle
  • + 2
 The people ruining sports are the cheaters, not the people catching them.
  • + 2
 Just let everybody do all the drugs. Bump a line before each stage who cares?
  • + 2
 Doping in high level competition sports... nooooo..... I'm so shocked............
  • + 2
 You really thought only roadies had interests in doping ?
Hahaha...
Now welcome into reality.
  • - 1
 Lots of voices on here which appear to already be damning the riders. Personally, I think it was an honest mistake. Jared has experience of competing at Olympic level. This is also the guy who refused to administer any kind of cream to the poison ivy rash he got from racing at Sea Otter despite it causing him issues the whole flight home. I suspect they both ate in the wrong restaurant in the run-up to the event.
  • + 3
 With Alberto contact?
  • + 3
 Say nope to dope, and ugh to drugs
  • + 2
 I stopped reading and scrolled down to comments after I saw "accidental ingestion"
  • + 1
 I'd be far more concerned if these guys were being given confidence boosters so they could shred that hard & fast on that kind of terrain.
  • + 8
 That’s more or less what one of the drugs was.
  • + 4
 Holy
  • + 3
 forget the magazines, investigative pinkbike journalism right here!
  • + 3
 Everybody is on steroids ????‍♂️

youtu.be/TLVOvIxO4TM
  • - 1
 Hopefully in the future we won't see published photos of riders queuing for doping control. IMO if there is testing in place at any race, the professional photographers should respect that process. The published photos from Olargues added to the positive test rumors and needlessly threw shade on several of the tested riders...
  • + 3
 There's part of me that agrees, and part that says that if you come back clean everyone knows it - if you aren't cheating you've nothing to worry about... Saying that, the world of drugs is rarely that black and white - lets imagine that Graves and Rude did accidentally ingest for a moment, and their careers and reputations are now on the line for a lapse in judgement...
  • + 1
 @slimboyjim: "if you aren't cheating you've nothing to worry about" - you certainly shouldn't have anything to worry about...

There will always be rumors, but in this case simply avoiding photographing the doping control queue would have protected the identity of those tested (most importantly the clean ones) and allowed the process to run its course.
  • + 0
 @demo811: They test the podium, should they not take pictures of that as well?
  • + 3
 All I want to know is What supplements and whare do I buy them ????
  • - 2
 silk road on the dark web maybe or maybe they have a specific dealer. anyways head on over mikemahler.com get some legitimate supplements instead
  • + 1
 Yes please. Not worried about tests so give it to me.
  • + 1
 That has to be the best user name ever Berminator!
  • + 1
 see my comment below. These are natural plant extracts that are very easy to find in pre-workout powders. I bought some today. Search your muscle/vitamin store and you will be able to buy it. Its not like its EPO !
  • + 1
 I want to believe that there not intentional doping, But these are 2 out of the 3 rider I have only ever heard about suspected doping by a fellow EWS rider...
  • - 1
 Sadly, this is the true spirit of Enduro! Racers can take PEDs, inhalers, cocaine bumps, etc during transition stages and you and I will never know! I've seen lots of inhalers being used in Enduro, not surprised there!
  • + 3
 Juicy stuff.
  • + 1
 I was actually hoping for doping test in Downhill as well as in Enduro, but i never knew, if there were some.
  • + 2
 Downhill as a UCI sport has always had doping tests, I believe it's usually the winner plus a random competitor at each event that get tested.
  • + 2
 "My mum gave me a diet pill"
-Shane Warne
  • + 1
 False positives are actualy a pretty high % in all drug testing, I don't see how they still pretend this isn't an issue.
  • + 4
 Would that be why they have a B Sample also - that Graves and Rude chose not to get tested?
  • + 1
 Weird how the dude who podiums has a false positive. Just a coinkydink he didn't ask for a b sample test either.
  • - 2
 The timing of this release is a tad suspect. I seem to remember an article about the EWS/UCI “partnership” a few weeks ago where the ensuing comments were F the UCI. I guess there was a need to throw a few people under the bus to make us suddenly love the move as one to clean up this dirty dirty sport.

Protip: the UCI has no credibility in antidoping
  • + 2
 The uci performs more dope tests than any other sporting organisation. If you want to see who has no credibility then look at how many tests and aaf come from sports like soccer and even more mundane things like golf.
  • + 0
 @kingtut87: just because they test doesn’t mean they go about it in a credible fashion. Remember Chris Froome was allowed to race. I don’t condone doping but the UCI has a funny way of deciding what doping is and isn’t.

The timing of this information release reaks of a bad PR move to discredit some folk in the name of driving home the point that UCI+EWS = best thing since sliced bread.
  • + 2
 @m47h13u: You know they don't carry out their own testing, right? It's carried out by the national anti doping federations and in conjunction with WADA. Now WADA have their issues (see Icarus etc) but that doesn't mean they're not playing by the rules or are corrupt. I'd also suggest you look into why Froome was allowed to keep racing and why he was eventually cleared. He's not the 1st and won't be the last athlete to get an AAF for a substance that isn't banned but carries other restrictions.

So, what's funny about the way the UCI handle doping?
  • + 1
 www.netflix.com/de/title/80168079

anybody who hasnt seen IKARUS yet? Clean sport diet a long time ago...
  • + 2
 No wonder why athletes now are like super humans.
  • + 1
 You know what you’re putting into your body. No accidental ingested ingredients.
  • + 2
 Aie ! Coup dur dans la villa.
  • - 2
 I think everyone needs to back off these guys and take a minute to realise what they've actually achieved. Take Lance Armstrong for example; who managed to win the gruelling Tour De France whilst doped up. If I was on drugs, I couldn't even find my bike.
  • + 0
 No one gets your Willie Reference. I do...haha! Cheers mate!
  • + 1
 Ok Pinkbike next article, Richie Rude & Jared Graves Oprah Confessions, lets see it. #apologytour
  • + 1
 Well, I would be boned I have Sports asthma and my medication has both of those in it.
  • + 2
 Best of wishes for Jared. Win that battle against cancer.
  • - 2
 Drugs in sport is a big problem. Drugs in our sport is not expectable! However, before we go on a witch hunt we need to remember what's important, and support Jared Graves in his time of need. #kick-the-shit-out-of-cancer-Jered
  • - 2
 Drugs in sport is a big problem. Drugs in our sport is not expectable! However, before we go on a witch hunt we need to remember what's important, and support Jared Graves in his time of need. #kick-the-shit-out-of-cancer-Jered
  • + 2
 "Would we see him racing WC downhill instead?" --- On what bike?
  • + 1
 Amaury Pierron has a breakout season in downhill - also on Ryno power... hmm ????
  • + 2
 He would have been tested several times during the season though, given his wins.
  • + 2
 Also tested every time he podiums. Possibly every race.
  • + 3
 LANCE WHERE ARE YOU ???
  • + 1
 “If you ain’t cheatin’, you ain’t tryin’ hard enuff”
  • + 1
 Taking those gas station dick pills like Jon Jones I see.
  • + 1
 Wake and Bake ( and a cappuccino of course ). Breakfast of champions!
  • + 1
 Like Cecile would hesitate to pee in front of a man...come on now.
  • + 1
 12 speed drive trains are doping, discuss.
  • + 2
 Surprised, Not..
  • + 1
 #itaintaPEDifitssoldatGNC
  • + 1
 No respect ! Should be banned for the next season
  • + 1
 Do they test for cannabis?
  • - 3
 Drugs in sport is a big problem. Drugs in our sport is not expectable! However, before we go on a witch hunt we need to remember what's important, and support Jared Graves in his time of need. #kick-the-shit-out-of-cancer-Jered
  • - 3
 Pretty lame to break this without conclusive evidence / lack of whole picture. Their reputations are tarnished forever regardless of if took the pills of not.

Love Richie but he has the HGH face...that shit f*cks you up and makes you look like a monkey...always thought that about him.
  • + 2
 Drug tests are pretty conclusive evidence, that's the point of them.
  • + 0
 @warmerdamj: Sure but the whole picture is not clear here. Frankly does not matter what the truth is at this point...the internet justice warriors have already made these guys guilty - Jared gets a free pass but it's unlikely he'll be racing again anyway. Not trying to be a dick, just realistic.
  • + 0
 I also always thought Richie had to be on something. He does have that look. Those tests are damning and at that level, the riders should know better. Cheaters... it is a shame, there goes the little respect i had for him.
  • + 1
 Don't be so rude, you're just trying to push them into their graves!
  • + 2
 Hold my bong!
  • + 1
 Ban them from every thing except DH hahaha
  • + 2
 So Rude come back to dh!
  • + 1
 You know who doesn't need to dope? Randy.
  • + 1
 How about an interview with Ryno Power?
  • - 1
 LOL Sucks for them that they got caught. BUT It does not surprise me one bit. There goes the little respect i had for Richie. Cheaters.... they know better.
  • + 1
 comments gonna be LIIIIIT
  • + 1
 Next stop - mechanical doping!
  • + 1
 No Uci no party...
  • + 0
 Ryno power slipped them something...
  • + 1
 NOOOOO WAAAYYYYYY
  • - 2
 not very easy to understand at the end. I'm completely supportive for Jared and Richie. They don't deny, now to fine what happened.
  • + 1
 Sh%t!
  • + 1
 Oof!
  • + 0
 on a positive note, Ryno sales have quadrupled this morning.
  • + 1
 And it begins...
  • + 0
 On the horn of a dilemma.
  • + 1
 Cheaters.
  • - 1
 Exactly
  • + 1
 L4D5
  • + 0
 will e bike riders require the same test?
  • - 2
 Uh oh some one is in trouble Eek I’m betting that it’s Ryno Power that unknowingly had the drugs in their supplements
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