Aaron Gwin and Specialized Part Ways - Here's Why
After three seasons together that produced five World Cup wins and an overall title, Aaron Gwin and Specialized are parting ways. The reason? A differing of opinion when it came to how much Aaron believes he's worth.
Whispers of the separation, of which both parties say is happening on good terms, had been making the rounds over the last few months. Even so, it's still somewhat surprising that the quickest downhiller in the sport, who also happens to be an American, is parting ways with one of the largest American cycling brands. It all just seems like too good of a fairytale, a marketing team's toe-curling wet dream, to not continue. But here we are. Unlike a real fairytale, however, this one was cut short because of a difference of opinion when it came to the size of Aaron's paycheck. He simply wanted to be paid more than Specialized was willing to dish out.
![One season four wins. Only in Switzerland and Canada did Gwin show the slightest of gaps in his armor and the rest was pretty much pure perfection.]()
Specialized has had a winning program for many years, so it's no surprise that they've used the budget for their mountain bike race program to keep that on track in the future. They recently announced the signing of Jared Graves to their enduro team, and there are rumors that they've signed another top downhiller to be Troy Brosnan's teammate in 2016 and beyond, both of which were likely made possible by using funds freed up by Aaron's departure.
And as for Aaron, he's not quite ready to spill the beans on his future, but he says that a similar offer to what he made Specialized has been accepted by a different, yet to be named company. ''After doing my own research and evaluations of the market, I calculated my own proposed salary and believe it to be very reasonable. That proposal was later quantified "proven true" as I now have a contract that I intend to sign which is based upon my original proposal,'' he told me of the accepted offer. Queue the speculation.
![Aaron Gwin s World Cup Story Infographic Copyright geebeebee media]()
While they did decline being interviewed on the subject, Specialized Sports Marketing's Gavin Noble released the following statement about Gwin's exit: ''Aaron is the greatest American World Cup DH racer ever - straight up. In a perfect world, we absolutely wanted to continue, and we know that, to a large degree, that feeling was mutual. Anyone who's ever worked in sports marketing, or has simply been involved with any kind of business decision making, however, knows that these decisions aren't as simple as they may seem from the outside. In this case, there were factors on each side that ultimately meant both parties were better off pursuing a different direction moving forward. Both sides came jointly to this conclusion, and there are no hard feelings whatsoever because of it. We had a great run with Aaron, and we will always consider him part of the Specialized family. We genuinely wish him the absolute best, both professionally and personally.''
Unlike more mainstream sports, mountain biking is notoriously secretive when it comes to anything related to a rider's contract, and it almost feels like a faux pas to mention either when talking about guys like Gwin, Minnaar, or Atherton. That is slowly changing, though. As you'll see in our conversation below, Aaron was uncommonly forthright and open about his reasoning behind not re-signing with Specialized.
Interviewed: Aaron Gwin
Mike Levy: After no World Cup wins in 2013 and a single victory in 2014, you had your best season racing for Specialized in 2015 with four World Cup wins and the World Cup overall title. That's an upward swing if I've ever seen one, which begs the question of why both parties wouldn't want to continue the relationship?
Aaron Gwin: It wasn't an issue of whether they or I wanted / desired to continue the relationship, it was a matter of belief concerning my value to the company. It's normal for athletes in any sport to switch companies or teams, not because they do or do not desire to continue, but because either the team or the athlete doesn't value the other according to the other's perspective. In my case, I proposed what I believe to be my reasonable market value, and they differed. It's nothing to be upset about; it was just a difference of opinion.
Some companies/teams might say that they do value an athlete accordingly but that they don't have the budget or funds to properly compensate them. That may or may not be true in some cases but for large, lucrative brands, generally, it's not a matter of if they "have" the funds. Rather, it's a matter of if they want to allocate those funds towards the athlete in order to support that certain division of their brand. I'm not intending to speak negatively towards any particular company or brand. I understand that every brand has different priorities based upon their business model and where they believe they can maximize their incoming revenue. In that case, those factors are usually related to the following divisions of cycling, whether it be downhill, road bikes, cross country, enduro, etc. However, unlike a lot of bicycle brands, my focus isn't spread across many different divisions of cycling; I value downhill specifically since it is my profession. That being the case and the fact that downhill is a rapidly growing market with a vast influence and a very promising future, I have a certain perspective on what my market value is to a brand. And personally, I just think that downhill is more awesome and more fun than every other cycling discipline, haha! Just kidding. Not really, but anyways...
With all of that being said, I proposed my value, which was a certain number above my previous contract, and they decided to allocate my proposed increase of funds somewhere else. When a brand decides to direct their monies in a different direction, I don't take it as a personal knock towards me. These guys all have their own ambitions and passions, which is normal, and I wish them well in whatever direction they decide to pursue.
Levy: Do you believe that a World Championship win would have seen you continue with Specialized for 2016 and beyond? What would have had to change for you to stay with Specialized?
Gwin: I cannot speak for Specialized and the value that they place on a World Championship title, however, I can state my perspective. I believe that a consistency of wins over a consistency of years defines an athlete's legacy and the value of that athlete to a brand, more than any one race. For instance, there is a certain marketing shelf life to a one race win like that, where as many wins over multiple years gives a rider credibility far into the future. Thus, I believe the majority of one's overall value to a brand is better determined by their consistency of wins rather than any single win.
As a personal note, I'd also like to add that I still view World Champs as an awesome race. Hopefully someday soon I'll stop sucking when it counts and win a few of those as well!
Regarding what would have had to change for me to stay, it was only their perspective of my value that would have needed to change. If our evaluations would have been unified, then I'd imagine we would have finalized a deal moving forward many months ago.
Levy: How much do you believe that a top racer, a racer who’s consistently winning World Cups and is among the quickest the sport has ever seen, should be getting paid per year?
Gwin: It's impossible to know the exact amount that a top downhill racer should be paid per year. However, it is not impossible for me to come up with a number that I believe to be a reasonable amount. In order to come up with an exact number, you would need to know all of the information concerning the total revenue amount of each brand.
![DFL for Gwin but you gotta give the man credit for riding a tire wheel combo from halfway to the first woods at the top of the track all the way home. Sure 39 seconds off pace but he never let off the gas.]()
Levy: Performance and win bonuses can add up to big money in other sports, but how big of a factor are they in top tier mountain biking? What sort of bonuses can a top racer expect for a win?
Gwin: Again, it's hard to know exactly since that information isn't made known publicly. From my own observations, I've seen bonuses for a World Cup title or World Championship [win] ranging anywhere from no money to $50,000 USD plus, each. Bonuses for individual races seem to vary largely as well. Ultimately, it's really up to the brands and how they want to structure value within their contracts.
Levy: You had a great - and eventful - 2015 but have changed teams regardless. What sort of factors do you keep in mind when considering signing for a company?
Gwin: Apart from monetary compensation, which I've already discussed, there's a few other factors that I always look at. First, the bike has to be able to win races. It doesn't necessarily have to be the best bike at the time, but it does have to be a solid start, and I have to believe that I can win on the bike. Concordantly, I have to believe that the brand is willing to accept and value my feedback in order to make the proper improvements that will result in the best bike on the market. Almost equally important is the company's social vibe. By vibe, I'm referring to an overall direction, image, style, etc. To accurately sum it up, I value a consistently professional relationship that is both cordial and enjoyable during obligatory cultural activities. Haha!
Levy: It looked like Specialized did a lot of in-season development to get your race bike to your liking. How big of a factor was this in-season development in your success, and do you think you would have had as good of a season if you had been on the same bike from the beginning of the year onwards?
Gwin: We actually didn't change anything on the bike during the season this year. We had a less "polished" bike at the first rounds of the World Cups, but functionally it was identical to the bike I rode for the rest of the season. That being said, and the fact that I won the first race of the year, the bike was great to start out the season, and it didn't affect me any differently from the first race to the last.
Levy: Are you a numbers guy? Do you care about things like being at the top off the all-time World Cup win list, or maybe sweeping a season?
Gwin: The only number I care about is #1! Ha, but seriously, the main motivation to race is to win, and I'd think that most other top racers would tell you the same thing. For me, I wouldn't be racing if I didn't think I could win. I want to win, my sponsors want me to win, and my fans want me to win. That's kind of the point when you race for a living. My desire is to win every race, and if that doesn't happen, I want to win as many as possible. I don't focus on or care about the total amount of wins or possible records to break right now. If those things happen, I'll choose to focus on them and be stoked when the time comes. I want to enjoy my racing and give it the best effort I possibly can, and hopefully the wins will continue to follow.
Levy: Some people have said that you’re not “in love” with mountain biking and that you probably wouldn’t be doing it if you weren’t racing and winning. What would you say to them if given the chance?
Gwin: I'd say they were correct in saying that I'm not "in love" with mountain biking. However, let me explain what that actually means. To be "in love" with something is different than loving something. I'm not "in love" with mountain biking, but I do love and greatly enjoy it. I also love iced coffee and chocolate chip cookies, but I'm not "in love" with those things. To be "in love" with something makes it a governing factor over your life and your decision making. To just love something is to utilize it so as to enjoy your life. For me, to be "in love" with mountain biking would mean that I couldn't be happy without it.
![Gwin QUOTE]()
Levy: Has retiring from racing entered your mind over the last handful of years, or do you see yourself continuing for the foreseeable future?
Gwin: If you would have asked me this question a few years ago, I might have said yes, but right now, no. I don't foresee myself retiring anytime soon. As I've matured as a person and grown in my belief over the past few years, I've really started to enjoy the racing side of my riding a lot more. In previous years, I would get more worked up over the need for results. The pressure that I would place on myself made it hard to enjoy the races. Since then, I've chosen to believe what I already knew, that is that God will work everything out for my good, regardless of results. It is always my goal to win, but I'm genuinely at peace with wherever the results fall. I get excited at the challenges which racing provides, and it's fun to see how much I can get out of myself for those few crazy minutes.
Levy: What would Aaron Gwin be doing if he retired in the near future? Do you see yourself staying in the mountain bike industry in some capacity?
Gwin: At this point in my life, I don't see myself retiring anytime soon, but when I do, I have no idea. I see myself riding mountain bikes for as long as I'm physically able. When my racing career is over, I'd like to continue to be involved in the industry for many years. However, at this time, it's hard to know what opportunities will present themselves. I really enjoy the product testing side of the sport, and I also have a lot of fun putting on riding clinics and aiding in other people's enjoyment of the sport at a higher level. Maybe I'll continue to be involved in those things down the road. Or maybe, I'll put on a race-suit and drive a trophy truck. Or maybe both, or maybe none of the above! Guess we'll have to wait and see.
Aaron and the Future
A racer moving to another company isn't usually internet-breaking news, but Aaron Gwin isn't just any racer, is he? No, he's the first truly dominant American male downhiller who, up until just now, had been notching up his most recent wins for an American company. And not only that, but Specialized made the decision not to re-sign Aaron, the current World Cup champion, when they were given the chance. So now we'll see him working for a different company in 2016 and beyond, a company that Aaron alluded to paying him what Specialized refused to. Let the assumptions and opinions roll in.
Will he be able to keep steamrolling the competition with or without a chain? Will he continue to win World Cups? I'd argue that the current state of top tier downhill racing is just too knife edge, too hectic, for one guy to consistently dominate for multiple years, but if there's one man to do it, it is probably Aaron Gwin. Just look back to his days with Trek, and to 2015, to see what I'm talking about.
It's been said that a person should always aim to be paid what they're worth, and the thing that's stopping most people from doing exactly that is their inability (or reluctance) to realize this. Aaron evidently does not have this problem, and now all he needs to do is keep winning.
Whispers of the separation, of which both parties say is happening on good terms, had been making the rounds over the last few months. Even so, it's still somewhat surprising that the quickest downhiller in the sport, who also happens to be an American, is parting ways with one of the largest American cycling brands. It all just seems like too good of a fairytale, a marketing team's toe-curling wet dream, to not continue. But here we are. Unlike a real fairytale, however, this one was cut short because of a difference of opinion when it came to the size of Aaron's paycheck. He simply wanted to be paid more than Specialized was willing to dish out.
''I proposed what I believe to be my reasonable market value, and they differed,'' Gwin explained to me in a straightforward way. ''It's nothing to be upset about, it was just a difference of opinion.'' It's rumored that Aaron's proposal would have made him the highest paid downhiller by quite a margin, although neither he or Specialized are willing to disclose the actual figure. Whatever the number was, which Aaron says is more than he was making in 2015, Specialized wasn't inclined to sign the cheques. ''When a brand decides to direct their monies in a different direction, I don't take it as a personal knock towards me,'' the World Cup champ said of what he clearly views as a business decision. ''These guys all have their own ambitions and passions, which is normal, and I wish them well in whatever direction they decide to pursue.''
 | It's normal for athletes in any sport to switch companies or teams, not because they do or do not desire to continue, but because either the team or the athlete doesn't value the other according to the other's perspective. - Aaron Gwin |
Specialized has had a winning program for many years, so it's no surprise that they've used the budget for their mountain bike race program to keep that on track in the future. They recently announced the signing of Jared Graves to their enduro team, and there are rumors that they've signed another top downhiller to be Troy Brosnan's teammate in 2016 and beyond, both of which were likely made possible by using funds freed up by Aaron's departure.
And as for Aaron, he's not quite ready to spill the beans on his future, but he says that a similar offer to what he made Specialized has been accepted by a different, yet to be named company. ''After doing my own research and evaluations of the market, I calculated my own proposed salary and believe it to be very reasonable. That proposal was later quantified "proven true" as I now have a contract that I intend to sign which is based upon my original proposal,'' he told me of the accepted offer. Queue the speculation.
| Regarding what would have had to change for me to stay, it was only their perspective of my value that would have needed to change. If our evaluations would have been unified, then I'd imagine we would have finalized a deal moving forward many months ago. - Aaron Gwin |
While they did decline being interviewed on the subject, Specialized Sports Marketing's Gavin Noble released the following statement about Gwin's exit: ''Aaron is the greatest American World Cup DH racer ever - straight up. In a perfect world, we absolutely wanted to continue, and we know that, to a large degree, that feeling was mutual. Anyone who's ever worked in sports marketing, or has simply been involved with any kind of business decision making, however, knows that these decisions aren't as simple as they may seem from the outside. In this case, there were factors on each side that ultimately meant both parties were better off pursuing a different direction moving forward. Both sides came jointly to this conclusion, and there are no hard feelings whatsoever because of it. We had a great run with Aaron, and we will always consider him part of the Specialized family. We genuinely wish him the absolute best, both professionally and personally.''
Unlike more mainstream sports, mountain biking is notoriously secretive when it comes to anything related to a rider's contract, and it almost feels like a faux pas to mention either when talking about guys like Gwin, Minnaar, or Atherton. That is slowly changing, though. As you'll see in our conversation below, Aaron was uncommonly forthright and open about his reasoning behind not re-signing with Specialized.
Mike Levy: After no World Cup wins in 2013 and a single victory in 2014, you had your best season racing for Specialized in 2015 with four World Cup wins and the World Cup overall title. That's an upward swing if I've ever seen one, which begs the question of why both parties wouldn't want to continue the relationship?
Aaron Gwin: It wasn't an issue of whether they or I wanted / desired to continue the relationship, it was a matter of belief concerning my value to the company. It's normal for athletes in any sport to switch companies or teams, not because they do or do not desire to continue, but because either the team or the athlete doesn't value the other according to the other's perspective. In my case, I proposed what I believe to be my reasonable market value, and they differed. It's nothing to be upset about; it was just a difference of opinion.
Some companies/teams might say that they do value an athlete accordingly but that they don't have the budget or funds to properly compensate them. That may or may not be true in some cases but for large, lucrative brands, generally, it's not a matter of if they "have" the funds. Rather, it's a matter of if they want to allocate those funds towards the athlete in order to support that certain division of their brand. I'm not intending to speak negatively towards any particular company or brand. I understand that every brand has different priorities based upon their business model and where they believe they can maximize their incoming revenue. In that case, those factors are usually related to the following divisions of cycling, whether it be downhill, road bikes, cross country, enduro, etc. However, unlike a lot of bicycle brands, my focus isn't spread across many different divisions of cycling; I value downhill specifically since it is my profession. That being the case and the fact that downhill is a rapidly growing market with a vast influence and a very promising future, I have a certain perspective on what my market value is to a brand. And personally, I just think that downhill is more awesome and more fun than every other cycling discipline, haha! Just kidding. Not really, but anyways...
With all of that being said, I proposed my value, which was a certain number above my previous contract, and they decided to allocate my proposed increase of funds somewhere else. When a brand decides to direct their monies in a different direction, I don't take it as a personal knock towards me. These guys all have their own ambitions and passions, which is normal, and I wish them well in whatever direction they decide to pursue.
 |
 Aaron's first World Cup victory with Specialized happened at the Pietermaritzburg World Cup in 2014 after a winless first season with the team the year prior. He was quickest on the pedal-intensive course using a heavily modified Enduro. Four more wins and an overall World Cup title in 2015 would follow. |
Levy: Do you believe that a World Championship win would have seen you continue with Specialized for 2016 and beyond? What would have had to change for you to stay with Specialized?
Gwin: I cannot speak for Specialized and the value that they place on a World Championship title, however, I can state my perspective. I believe that a consistency of wins over a consistency of years defines an athlete's legacy and the value of that athlete to a brand, more than any one race. For instance, there is a certain marketing shelf life to a one race win like that, where as many wins over multiple years gives a rider credibility far into the future. Thus, I believe the majority of one's overall value to a brand is better determined by their consistency of wins rather than any single win.
As a personal note, I'd also like to add that I still view World Champs as an awesome race. Hopefully someday soon I'll stop sucking when it counts and win a few of those as well!
Regarding what would have had to change for me to stay, it was only their perspective of my value that would have needed to change. If our evaluations would have been unified, then I'd imagine we would have finalized a deal moving forward many months ago.
Levy: How much do you believe that a top racer, a racer who’s consistently winning World Cups and is among the quickest the sport has ever seen, should be getting paid per year?
Gwin: It's impossible to know the exact amount that a top downhill racer should be paid per year. However, it is not impossible for me to come up with a number that I believe to be a reasonable amount. In order to come up with an exact number, you would need to know all of the information concerning the total revenue amount of each brand.
There would need to be a disclosure of each brand's costs and profits in order to make a more technical evaluation of salaries. At this time, the sport has not developed to the point where this information is expected to be made available. All great sports have gone through these growing pains and hopefully, eventually, a full disclosure will be made available so that a proper evaluation of downhill salaries can be calculated.
After doing my own research and evaluations of the market, I calculated my own proposed salary and believe it to be very reasonable. That proposal was later quantified "proven true" as I now have a contract that I'm intending to sign which is based upon my original proposal.
After doing my own research and evaluations of the market, I calculated my own proposed salary and believe it to be very reasonable. That proposal was later quantified "proven true" as I now have a contract that I'm intending to sign which is based upon my original proposal.
Leogang has always been a place of drama for Gwin. In 2014, he did most of his race run without a rear tire, but we'd have to wait until 2015 to see what he was really capable of.
Levy: Performance and win bonuses can add up to big money in other sports, but how big of a factor are they in top tier mountain biking? What sort of bonuses can a top racer expect for a win?
Gwin: Again, it's hard to know exactly since that information isn't made known publicly. From my own observations, I've seen bonuses for a World Cup title or World Championship [win] ranging anywhere from no money to $50,000 USD plus, each. Bonuses for individual races seem to vary largely as well. Ultimately, it's really up to the brands and how they want to structure value within their contracts.
Levy: You had a great - and eventful - 2015 but have changed teams regardless. What sort of factors do you keep in mind when considering signing for a company?
Gwin: Apart from monetary compensation, which I've already discussed, there's a few other factors that I always look at. First, the bike has to be able to win races. It doesn't necessarily have to be the best bike at the time, but it does have to be a solid start, and I have to believe that I can win on the bike. Concordantly, I have to believe that the brand is willing to accept and value my feedback in order to make the proper improvements that will result in the best bike on the market. Almost equally important is the company's social vibe. By vibe, I'm referring to an overall direction, image, style, etc. To accurately sum it up, I value a consistently professional relationship that is both cordial and enjoyable during obligatory cultural activities. Haha!
 |
| No one would have believed that a World Cup could be won without a chain, but then Aaron did exactly that at the 2015 Leogang event after he broke his right out of the gate. Three minutes and thirty five seconds later, the internet nearly exploded. |
Levy: It looked like Specialized did a lot of in-season development to get your race bike to your liking. How big of a factor was this in-season development in your success, and do you think you would have had as good of a season if you had been on the same bike from the beginning of the year onwards?
Gwin: We actually didn't change anything on the bike during the season this year. We had a less "polished" bike at the first rounds of the World Cups, but functionally it was identical to the bike I rode for the rest of the season. That being said, and the fact that I won the first race of the year, the bike was great to start out the season, and it didn't affect me any differently from the first race to the last.
Levy: Are you a numbers guy? Do you care about things like being at the top off the all-time World Cup win list, or maybe sweeping a season?
Gwin: The only number I care about is #1! Ha, but seriously, the main motivation to race is to win, and I'd think that most other top racers would tell you the same thing. For me, I wouldn't be racing if I didn't think I could win. I want to win, my sponsors want me to win, and my fans want me to win. That's kind of the point when you race for a living. My desire is to win every race, and if that doesn't happen, I want to win as many as possible. I don't focus on or care about the total amount of wins or possible records to break right now. If those things happen, I'll choose to focus on them and be stoked when the time comes. I want to enjoy my racing and give it the best effort I possibly can, and hopefully the wins will continue to follow.
| To just love something is to utilize it so as to enjoy your life. For me, to be "in love" with mountain biking would mean that I couldn't be happy without it. |
Levy: Some people have said that you’re not “in love” with mountain biking and that you probably wouldn’t be doing it if you weren’t racing and winning. What would you say to them if given the chance?
Gwin: I'd say they were correct in saying that I'm not "in love" with mountain biking. However, let me explain what that actually means. To be "in love" with something is different than loving something. I'm not "in love" with mountain biking, but I do love and greatly enjoy it. I also love iced coffee and chocolate chip cookies, but I'm not "in love" with those things. To be "in love" with something makes it a governing factor over your life and your decision making. To just love something is to utilize it so as to enjoy your life. For me, to be "in love" with mountain biking would mean that I couldn't be happy without it.
To love mountain biking means that I'm free to enjoy riding and racing, but if I have an injury or bad result, I'm still content with life and happy regardless. I'm also then still happily motivated to continue riding with the hope of winning future races. Regarding my love for riding, it seems to grow more and more every year, which is crazy since I've been riding bicycles since I was three-years-old. There's no other sport that I enjoy more, and the fact that I get to do it for a living is a blessing that I'm thankful for every day.
So with that, I'm sure you get the point. You could say that I'm "in love" with God, or possibly "in love" with a hot babe (wife) someday, but a mountain bike, no.
So with that, I'm sure you get the point. You could say that I'm "in love" with God, or possibly "in love" with a hot babe (wife) someday, but a mountain bike, no.
Mountain biking is obviously a major part of Aaron's life, but he explains that he would be happy without it as well.
Levy: Has retiring from racing entered your mind over the last handful of years, or do you see yourself continuing for the foreseeable future?
Gwin: If you would have asked me this question a few years ago, I might have said yes, but right now, no. I don't foresee myself retiring anytime soon. As I've matured as a person and grown in my belief over the past few years, I've really started to enjoy the racing side of my riding a lot more. In previous years, I would get more worked up over the need for results. The pressure that I would place on myself made it hard to enjoy the races. Since then, I've chosen to believe what I already knew, that is that God will work everything out for my good, regardless of results. It is always my goal to win, but I'm genuinely at peace with wherever the results fall. I get excited at the challenges which racing provides, and it's fun to see how much I can get out of myself for those few crazy minutes.
Levy: What would Aaron Gwin be doing if he retired in the near future? Do you see yourself staying in the mountain bike industry in some capacity?
Gwin: At this point in my life, I don't see myself retiring anytime soon, but when I do, I have no idea. I see myself riding mountain bikes for as long as I'm physically able. When my racing career is over, I'd like to continue to be involved in the industry for many years. However, at this time, it's hard to know what opportunities will present themselves. I really enjoy the product testing side of the sport, and I also have a lot of fun putting on riding clinics and aiding in other people's enjoyment of the sport at a higher level. Maybe I'll continue to be involved in those things down the road. Or maybe, I'll put on a race-suit and drive a trophy truck. Or maybe both, or maybe none of the above! Guess we'll have to wait and see.
 |
| The 2015 World Cup series finale, and also Aaron's final World Cup race with Specialized, was held in Val di Sole, Italy. He won. |
A racer moving to another company isn't usually internet-breaking news, but Aaron Gwin isn't just any racer, is he? No, he's the first truly dominant American male downhiller who, up until just now, had been notching up his most recent wins for an American company. And not only that, but Specialized made the decision not to re-sign Aaron, the current World Cup champion, when they were given the chance. So now we'll see him working for a different company in 2016 and beyond, a company that Aaron alluded to paying him what Specialized refused to. Let the assumptions and opinions roll in.
Will he be able to keep steamrolling the competition with or without a chain? Will he continue to win World Cups? I'd argue that the current state of top tier downhill racing is just too knife edge, too hectic, for one guy to consistently dominate for multiple years, but if there's one man to do it, it is probably Aaron Gwin. Just look back to his days with Trek, and to 2015, to see what I'm talking about.
It's been said that a person should always aim to be paid what they're worth, and the thing that's stopping most people from doing exactly that is their inability (or reluctance) to realize this. Aaron evidently does not have this problem, and now all he needs to do is keep winning.
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Must Read This Week
Aaron gwin is the future and will be for atleast the next five years damn specialized !! Troy cannot deliver!!! No one can has the balls or line choice like Aaron gwin who the f*ck else made the transition from Moto to DH with stripes cmon f*cking specialized y'all f*ckked up!!!!!!
In order to be the best you need to be payed like te best!
For gods sake the man won with no f*cking chain!
Plus y'all Ain't never gonna get an
AMERICAN winner like Aaron gwin !!!
"Sorry, we have the Athertons." - Trek
LOL.
if i ever tried that in the real world ie. work it wouldnt fly . is he one of the greatest of all times? yes but even hes making it sound like hes asking for unrealistic money. this isnt moto and hes not riding for KTM ... or is he ???
I am all for free enterprise and im almost positive he was getting paid extremely well already I'm also certain specialized was expecting some form of salary negotiation but what number could Gwin of possibly hit them with that that didnt even come to terms ? and more so who actually met those terms ? its not about size of the company. specialized is a global multi million dollar corporation but apparently their downhill budget either cant or doesn't want to handle his demands .
btw i ride a sworks demo . sj evo expert and a crux #IamSpecialized
When Specialized protects their copyrights etc they're the spawn of the devil and "they have too much f*ckin money, what about the little guy blah blah" but when a racer keeps switching teams going after the $ he's a hero and Specialized should pay him what he wants. Too funny.
The bottomline is they guy is only half as marketable as he should be because he's god squad. Everyone in Europe cringes when he starts thanking god or saying that god will work it all out. Holy shit dude are you that mentally ill that you really believe that shit? He might sell sell DH bikes in the US but DH is 1% the sales of trail and AM so he's a brand ambassidor more than anything. On the whole mountain bikers are an informed and secular bunch so to many companies a guy riding for jesus will always have a big question mark, rather than a supernatural creator, hovering over them.
Peaty hasn't won a World Cup for years but he's hugely popular/marketable. Do you think he would be as popular if he had gone on about god every interview/win? Not a chance.
As for your claim that Gwin isn't marketable, you are dead wrong. Some other bike company was willing to dish out the $ he wanted, doesn't that say something? They believe he's worth it.
Firstly, the majority of people who will know/support Gwin will have no idea about this "God" issue you've mentioned. Fans these days watch clips, look at social media and sometimes watch live streaming - podium interviews aren't exactly big. It's the really, really hard core fans the watch that - IE, the people that aren't going to watch him ride a Specialized and think "ZOMG I NEED ONE".
The marketability is far more relevant to those who aren't as much of a hard core fan. They associate him (or any other athlete that wins) with the brand. Winning = Specailzed. They're the people that these deals influence.
But sadly, I'm not in his shoes, as no one seems to be paying Cat 2 30-39 racers (and rightfully so).
Get ready specialized y'all ain't winning Gold for shit from now on!
They also just spent millions of dollars on building their own wind tunnel, third party wind tunnel testing was running them over 1000$/hr, and they logged over 1600hrs testing their new ViaS Venge alone. As much as Specialized often emotionless decisions makes me dislike them as a brand, you have to remember they're a business at the end of the day. Most of they're decisions are cool and calculated by people who get paid to crunch numbers and statistics. They'll both go on and do just fine without each other. It's the nature of the sport. This isn't even close to the first time this has happened, yet it's a "surprise" all the time. Things like this get too hyped and sensationalized. Do I think Gwin deserves more money? Yes. I think everyone in the sport professionally, is incredibly underpaid. But sometimes when you ask for a raise you get told no. That's life. But good on Gwin for knowing his own self worth and sticking to it.
www.mbr.co.uk/videos/news/could-this-cryptic-post-suggest-gwin-is-heading-to-yt-industries
Anyone like to speculate?
If YT fits the bill for the season great. Nxt year they can renew or not. Win win
He's already been through Trek and I'm sure theres some bad blood there from his sudden move to Spec. Gt I belive already has a team lined up since the Athertons left.
Giant seems to be the only one left in my train of thought.
@powderturns Villipoto + god + Volcom likely wasn't a good combo. Gwin should go to KTM to join the other Jesus boy!
Agreed also about Sam Hill, Colin McRae. People's champs. Win it or bin it. Kevin Schwantz was too.
I love e bikes! Have you seen that electric v10?
Also I remember hearing minnaar was leaving Santa Cruz. Was that just bs?
As for tyres, he likes Maxxis, and rightly so.
What about Bos? I'm sure th3y would love to have him, but couldn't afford him.
I have to agree, if the deal was done it would have been announced.
THE SUSPENSE IS KILLING ME
1. Intense
2. Redbull (frame?)
3. Giant
Compare it to road cycling (for those who have been following that). Lance Armstrong just was an amazing athlete and could probably perform very well without the doping. There was also a very advanced system behind hiding the whole thing. But if you take away all those who've been riding with the stuff or at least have had everyone ride without it, a different athlete would have won. Probably an athlete who's never received the success and respect Lance had experienced some point in his career.
Now, as long we don't know more about Gwin, this thread will now fork into a VW branch and a Lance Armstrong branch. Sorry for that
First, the US mandates that part of our fuel is ethanol, from corn, which by some estimates takes .8 gallons of diesel (to run the farming equipment) to grow enough corn to produce 1 gallon of ethanol. All this corn also takes huge amounts of synthetic fertilizer, which takes huge amounts of electricity to manufacture (most electricity in the world comes from fossil fuels like coal). Adding ethanol to gas reduces the efficiency and mileage of cars, making them pollute more per mile driven and per pound of freight hauled. Ethanol also has worse emissions than standard gas. Ethanol also ruins your engine and requires more servicing, higher turnover of parts that have to be manufactured, etc. Finally, this has raised the global cost of basic food groups, a wonderful thing if you're in a developing economy and you make $5/day.
Second, the EPA generally regulates on a "fleet" level, meaning a horribly complex formula where all the models across a manufacturers line are averaged out to reach emission compliance. This incentivizes auto manufacturers to put SUVs on truck chassis instead of something like a crossover so they can be classified differently and held to a lower emission standard. A true SUV is larger, heavier, and is far less efficient than a crossover like a CR-V or RAV4. More weight means more steel that has to be mined, smelted, and refined, all of which consume enormous amounts of energy and produce emissions. These dumbfoundingly stupid fleet rate formulas is the reason why GM continues to dump billions of dollars into failed cars like the Volt (that gets huge subsides from taxpayers) and other hybrids. There is a reason why in Europe, where gas is over 4 times as expensive as the US, you won't find many hybrids on the road; they don't make sense without the EPA distorting market prices. The fleet regulations are also arbitrary and capricious. Telsa, a company by billionaires for millionaires, gets a large portion of its revenue from selling what amount to "pollution credits", which they don't need to sell their cars because they pollute from burning coal instead of gas. They sell these credits to other manufacturers, which the EPA gives in a disproportionate amount to Telsa because they are "green".
Thirdly, diesel is better than gas for most auto applications. From an emission standpoint, its more complex than saying diesel pollutes more/less than regular gas, but most EPA regulations control diesel on fuel consumed rather than work performed; diesel in many ways pollutes more per gallon used, but you get better mileage as well so its much more complex than just an apple-to-apple comparison. Diesel cars are more expensive, but this makes it pay to keep a car on the road longer, and they last longer than a gas-powered vehicle, making the turnover rate for new cars lower. Many studies claim that manufacturing a car pollutes as much as a lifetime of fuel consumption, so lowering the turnover rate of new cars will enormously reduce emissions.
So the EPA creates this complex game of fleet rules, emission credit swapping/selling, and incentivizes people to buy new cars more often. All this dramatically raises the cost of buying a car, which hurts poor people the most. If you can afford to drop $40k on a new truck or sportscar, that X% increase in its price is not an issue. If you're a working father and you need a new minivan to get your kids to school, that X% increase in cost is crippling. The EPA laws governing emissions and efficiency generally don't work, transfer wealth from poor/middle class people to the rich, and enables Elon Musk to make billions off of selling supercars to millionaires at the expense of everyone else.
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PS: I dont' mean to hate on Elon Musk, I'm just using him as an example. I really admire what he has done and I would love to have a Tesla, but the regulatory incentives put in place by the US government push a genius to spend his smarts, resources, and charisma on gaming the system rather than on truly innovating.
f*cking pinkbike, man.
I also agree that it sucks turning food into products or fuel. Also don't forget that a lot of land is not being used to grow food for the people there. Instead they grow soy for the animals who're then shipped halfway around the world just to be slaughtered in a western country just for the meat. Those who don't die along the way, that is. That same amount of land could be used to feed a lot of people there. Or just remained the beautiful rainforest it used to be.
I was actually surprised to receive my Seasons DVD (from The Collective, currently Anthill productions) proudly stating that part of the packaging was made from potato starch. Why was that?
I know, Aaron Gwin isn't featured on the Seasons DVD but at least it is bicycle related. It is my contribution that hopefully will bring this thread back on track. I understand the importance of the internet media nowadays so if Aaron Gwin appears at the Lourdes' startline on a Loekie, blame it on me. Please don't blame it on WAKI.
That said, Loekie does have a few bikes without chain and with airless tyres. Gwin should be fine.
Sorry again.
So this whole YT/Fox/RB/KTM/Audi thing seems to be true. Will there be other riders on the team?
www.ride.ch/site/index.php/10813-gwin-2016-auf-yt-bikes-unterwegs.html
www.mtb-downhill.net/aaron-gwin-signs-with-yt-industries
If YT can hang with the demand, and Gwin clicks on the bike, well... this will be an absolute f*cking goldmine for them. And you know what? Good for YT. I'm happy for them. They're innovators and deserve the success. They're shaking up an outdated and needlessly complicated industry model while delivering value to their customers, and getting their bikes underneath the most prolific riders on the planet.
If people want to continue shelling out $6000+ for a DH bike because outside reps, shop owners, mechanics, sales staff and store managers want their piece of the pie, they're welcome to keep doing just that. I've known many people in all of these positions, some of them are great guys, and some of them are greedy, money-hungry ass holes. Maybe it's that I'm cheap, or jaded, or that I'm just not all that generous. I'd rather make up my own mind as to what my needs are, speak directly to the manufacturer, pay for just the BIKE and the SHIPPING, then learn to assemble, maintain, and repair my bike myself, and save a few thousand dollars because 5-10 additional people weren't in some small way involved with my purchase.
A good example of this are the cd stores that were complaining about people downloading music. But the smarter companies saw their opportunity in downloading and hopped on it, built a legal downloading platform where you still have to pay for the music, but don't have the inconvenience of having to use an old school CD player (since everyone started to buy smaller MP3 players), and these companies got extremely rich from hopping onto this change.
Same for CRC, started out as a small bike shop around the corner, saw the demand for an online bike shop, was one of the first ones to hop on it, and now they are huge. Or they could have gone bankrupted if they would have been like most bike shops complaining about people buying online. Same goes for YT and Canyon, it is the next step forwards.
But at the same time lets not forget that most people here on Pinkbike I think are people who actually know stuff about bikes. I know way too many cyclists who litterally can't replace a tube and bring their bike to the lbs when the headset has a bit of play in it (which means paying €15 or more for loosening and tightening 3 bolts, and not being able to ride for 2 days until they fixed it and you get your bike back). Sadly I feel like the majority or cyclists over here is like this.
Thereby YT and Canyon are perfect for the type of cyclist who knows their stuff, knows how to build and maintain a bike, does his research about what is good and what not, instead of the lbs trying to sell him that one bike they can't get rid of. YT and Canyon are the next big things, at least the way they work. But only for "real cyclists" who know their stuff.
Truth be told, I didn't even know until right now that Commencal was direct in the US. I've been checking out their site... the bikes look okay, the prices look eh... but I still feel like the best value for the best product right now is YT, and from what I understand, this is possible because of their no-frills business model. If Canyon is available by the time I'm ready for a new bike, I'll take a Torque for a spin and see if I enjoy it. But as of right now, YT gets my money. They're really doing a lot of things right.
Keep in mind, I'm proud to be a cheap motherf*cker. I fly on Spirit Airways, live in the smallest place I can handle, and drive a perfectly functional 14 year old WRX. I just don't see the point in flushing money down the toilet when you don't have to. Mountain biking has become incredibly expensive, and it really doesn't have to be that way if you're dealing with companies who have trimmed the fat, so to speak.
Specialized sucks at this.
But since it is a superlative degree of a know saying, I would say it is correct
@ccolagio - road cyclists get paid more because more people ride road and thus more people are interested and watch the events. Most people don't even know what DH racing is much less care enough about it to watch.
I have done both and they are so different you cannot compare them.
Weak and feeble? A top level Master racer would crush you on a climb.
Time to get out of your parent's basement and enter the real world.
What Gwin is so expert at is, ahem, more specialized, and could not possibly be done on the same scale -- anymore than football players could play 162 games per year. I would guess that Gwin will be in the low seven figures, but sadly most of the great downhillers make nowhere near this amount, unlike in road cycling where there are probably several hundred riders making a very comfortable living. There just is not enough money in the sport to pay these men and women according to their skill and the risks that they take. The money can come from sponsors, TV rights, and paid tickets, but none of those are pumping out sufficient levels of cash.
What happened with trek world racing anyway? Did it ever emerge?
Im courious do you people throw money at the screen without even cheking if the bike is available?
Uuno- 2015
no way he goes for YT ... these bikes wheigh 18kg it can t win a WC .. NO WAY ... GWIN TO THE SYNDICATE and BRUNI TO SPECIALIZED
And don't forget that they don't have a "catalog" bike from Astro or a Taiwan brand. So they can create a new bike with Gwin feedbacks.
You dont think a YT is able to win races??? Lacondeguy can ride the wheels of.. Or are you a snob who only believe in the
"BIG" brands.!! Johnny !!!
I own a YT tues cf pro; 15.8 kg. MF !!!!!!!!
You're delusional if you think Gwin would go to the Syndicate. Do you think really think that religious, no beer drinking Gwin would put up with Ratboy's antics for 1 second?
What I thought is that, MAYBE, Yeti is preparing something big, like a new DH bike who includes the fox infinity or I don't know what ... According to me, it's a logic move.... They lost Graves, and have more than full $$$ ... and they're a bit out of the dh world these days but we know them... they come back!!
I know he was already at yeti before .. but it's not impossible! Ragot came back at Mondraker after one year by Lapierre ...
Anyway, we'll see, but GWIN to YETI would be the BOMB !!!!
www.vitalmtb.com/forums/The-Hub,2/2016-Racing-Rumours,8720?page=30
"Bikes ARE rad" which suppose the three guys ride the same bike, and his friend on the left at the end of the vid got a Scott GENIUS :
----> GWIN ON SCOTT ???
It may not be the way we all want it to be, but the sad truth is, in real terms, downhill is not big. It is not loaded with money. And outside the realm of downhill and mountain biking in general, the riders are not 'big' or 'famous'. Certainly not enough to be deciding what their own market value is.
@schofell84 has a good idea; such an organization probably would have been more helpful to Gwin than a union.
I had Bryn Atkinson walk into my shop yesterday, while it was filled to the brim with customers, and not a single reaction from anyone.
In the Pro ranks, trade team salaries should be available to the other Pro-ranked riders. Most riders sign with an exclusive trade team: Giant Factory Off-Road, Trek World Racing, Santa Cruz Syndicate... Additional personal endorsements be it energy drinks, automobiles, sunnies or jimmy-hats shouldn't be included. Same way Stamkos, Ovie, Crosby all have endorsement deals beyond their team contracts that 4th liners, and 60-100th UCI ranked guys don't get either
...and then, as you say, there is Brosnan, who has been so close to Gwin this season that Specialized get a lot of coverage from him and feel he may be enough rider for them, to be their number one rider
If Specialized had to choose racing budget allocation between Gwin, Brosnan and Graves they made 100% the right decision.
(probably not where Gwin ends up)
woooaaaaaaaaah
More than $1,000,000 USD
- Gwin
that's exactly how i said it in my head hahahaha
Also, it's a monetary decision. I've been told by people in the industry that the DH segment is so insignificant revenue-wise for some brands ("we could kill off DH and it wouldn't even dent our sales") that their accountants probably figured out that its not worth paying for a Gwin if he wants "that much" when the investment isn't going to translate into sales anyway. They sell a LOT more enduro/XC bikes so laid back grassroots guys like Hunter/Akrigg/mackaskill that most likely demand much less money are probably a lot better deals when you see it as an exposure:money ratio. Don't forget that even though specialized is one of the big names, they don't make nearly as much money as redbull does and people are often conflating the two. There's a lot of money in the sport but it's not all in the manufacturer's hands.
Also, the Demo is well established. Emerging brands would probably benefit a lot more from having Gwin cross the line on their bikes as it would prove their steeds are just as capable as the other big names (which remains to be proven) as opposed to brands like Trek who have nothing left to prove with their Session.
Gwin's the best but they don't sell much demos anyway so why even bother paying him? The demo works, he proved it last season, why pay him a ton of money when they already got what they wanted out of the deal?
Regarding the Demo: DH wins don't just sell Demos. They sell Enduros and some Stumpys, as well. They enhance the whole brand, much like in motor sports.
How on earth did you get the "overwhelming message" that the bike isn't important? He said it was basically first on his list that the bike is already pretty damn good, and that the team are willing to change the bike to his liking. The Trek Session clearly suited him, the old demo clearly didn't. With the new demo he is close to his old Trek form. The bike clearly matters a lot. IMO Trek still sell more bikes due to what Gwin did on them, and failed to do on Demo's, than Spec do because of what he does on their new demo.
I just hope Aaron can find a company that's willing to pay the amount he rightfully deserves as THE biggest name in downhill, and arguably mountain biking in general.
YT are doing exceptionally well in Europe, the value for money and quality of the goods is absolutely bonkers, plus they've popped across the pond to do the same in the US, they really are mixing it up! A scoop like Gwin would be a marketing managers wet dream.
To be fair it is all very speculative, god know what will happen, it will be interesting to see wherever he goes.
Gwin says: "important is the company's social vibe. By vibe, I'm referring to an overall direction, image, style, etc."
Edit: @TFreeman already said this...
As for frame choice, I am going to guess Intense, with partial ownership of the brand as part of his compensation (either right now, or when he is retired from WC racing.)
Or he will run his own program and Trek will supply him with frames.
twitter.com/CamZink/status/682009167666622466
I'm excited what team it will be. Also a nice statement by Gwin not to reduce his proposal. I wish him all the best.
Only Dorel Group may have the money he's asking...
In fact santa-cruz may have the money too but santa-cruz doesn't need to proove them v10 as a winning machine, santa already made they market as the best Downhill machine and it sells them bikes by it self.
Gwin starts a RedBull DH program (like Athertons did with Trek) with Trek/Specialized providing frames.
Santa Cruz probably doesn't need a Gwin but Peaty is in his last season.... Santa Cruz has a HUGE social presence.
Although someone like Luca Shaw runs a V10 and is sponsored by SRAM so the V10 is well represented.
They said they got Brosnan a new teammate and with Lapierre bikes going down maybe Bruni can continue the Specialized dominance that 2015 brought.
GT has their team together.
Trek has their team together.
Scott has their team together.
Kona isn't paying Gwin,
Giant lost Danny Hart and maybe has the money and willingness?
MS Moodraker lost Emmeline Ragot and could make a nice team with Danny Hart?
KTM starts a team and finds a frame sponsor?
So many thoughts!
EPIC!
And does anyone believe that Aaron Gwin used the word 'Concordantly' ???
I'll start. I make $0,000,00.00 riding for my private team, which does not race or enter any events.
Gwin only showed it does not suit him because of the short chain stays (amongst other things). Then he got a redesign that worked for him.
– Aaron Gwin
*****************************************************************
=> Frenchies on Spe === they already test the bike !!!
give me two of them ;-)
*****************************************************************
Seriously, it didn't even come close to 0.1% of "internet nearly exploding". Any soccer player farting on tv would make more noise...
(fart... noise...)
Jared Graves gave up all of his outside deals and is fully kitted out by them for next year.
If you are representing a brand, they want you to represent all of it just not the bike.
He is going to YT where he can keep all of his sponsors happy and will still have a great bike.
Pretty standard race contact in supercross
Wouldn't surprise me to see him on Santa Cruz
- peaty is paid out
- the company just sold so it's got the capital
- V10's sell and sc supports dh racing
- has a a strong fox connection
Yeti
- would be cool but won't happen
- strong fox connection
- do they care about Dh anymore??
Yt or canyon
- I doubt it .
- if so massive massive money has been paid out
Giant
- former wc power player
- deep pockets
- good bike
Intense
- new bike
- no big racers ( love ya Chris and Claire ) but no wc talent
- with there new capital investors they have the cash
- American company
- There racing legacy is missing a World Cup title
Good luck to Aaron I hope he will continue to amaze us as he did this year!
Gwin to......? Who had more $ than spesh?
Back to trek?
Gwin on YT would be great, if YT have the $?
Gwin for syndicate? To replace Peaty would rule!!!
Jus read Heart's off giant?
Legend.
The only absurd thing is a noname rider on the Internet calling one of the best DH WC riders a "has been".
Its either Scott or KTM. With all the KTM bling he got last year, I would think it would be them.
Sponsored athletes are walking, talking advertisements. In the case of mountain bikes, I would argue that they have two primary responsibilities:
1.) Win races. This shows that the product is functional. "So-and-so is fast and wins races. You will win races if you ride this bike."
2.) Represent the sponsor's brand image in public. "So-and-so seems like a cool guy, thereby so-and-so company is cool."
Whether consciously or subconsciously, these walking, talking advertisements affect our purchasing decisions. The rub is determining just how much of a company's sales can be attributed to the fact that Gwin did those jobs extremely well. That number is extremely difficult to ascertain, if not impossible. Gwin thought he was responsible for $A of sales and deserved $B compensation going forward. Specialized thought he was responsible for $C of sales and deserved $D compensation going forward. I'd be interested to know how much hard data Gwin had access to for the purposes of backing up his argument.
So that doesn't work out with Specialized and Gwin is on the market. Gwin's sales pitch needs to change a bit. If he had data from Specialized, he could present it as "This is what I did for Specialized, this is what I think I can do for you, and here's how much you need to pay me to do it." If he didn't have data, or was legally prohibited from sharing it, it's more like "Here's how I'll make it worth your while to give me $B compensation to ride your bike." New Company looks at their numbers and either buys it or doesn't. Someone eventually did.
I'd probably argue that company size probably doesn't matter as much as people think, especially if the new contract duration is short, say a year. Since everyone is speculating YT, I'd venture that they could get a hold of whatever they needed to for a year if they wanted to. It would obviously be much riskier for someone their size rather than Giant or any other larger manufacturer should it not pan out as hoped. "Can we do it?" often has a different answer than "Should we do it?" in reality and often the truthful answer to "Should we do it?" isn't able to be uncovered until it's done. Not saying that's the case with whoever he signed with, but it frequently is the case with companies in all industries.
Angry buyer: you dont own the moon
Me: yes i do
Angry buyer: ok there have my monies.
He is pointing straight at YT with this comment. They have the best vibes in the bike industry. Chill, cool, calm, but yet still aggressive with the riders they have now. Like YT says..... "Good Times"
Aaron Gwinn said, Specialzied makes xxxx amount of money as a company and they should pay me xxxx amount of money. He is going to be the biggest downhiller of all times, huge brand recognition. For years. 30 years from now, people will still talk about him.
he will move to another place for less money, if he has too.
And this shows again how specialized is runned by bankers rather than sport people.
Paying him whatever he ask- would be absolutley nothing for them.
But they rather do"better business investments".
Instead of having a lengend associated to your name, maybe spend money on e bikes or whatever.
Ultimate problem is people running these company go for the quick buck to get bonuses and increase their pay. Dont care about long term result. They preach "brand royalty" but they are the last to be loyal to anything.
It's the same reason Football players get paid stupid money, yet ping pong players struggle... snowboarders v skiers..... there's always a minority sport that you'd think should get paid more but you've got to look at the £$£ generated by sales....
Google Translate: I want to race with dudes I want to party with too.