Video: We Actually Tested Our Bike From The Future - The Grim Donut Part 2

Sep 16, 2020
by Pinkbike Originals  

A PINKBIKE ORIGINAL

THE GRIM DONUT 2

Part 2: The Right Amount of Stupid


Words by Mike Levy


The Grim Donut wasn't supposed to work. It should be near-unrideable, a joke of a bike taken too far, and a punchline that took too long to reach. But if you've already watched the video, you'll know that only the last part of that is true. The Donut was intended to be stupid, but could it be the right amount of stupid?

Okay, fine, it might not work everywhere, but its 57-degree head angle, 83-degree seat angle, and Winnebago-like wheelbase aren't quite so funny now that we've done timed testing with Yoann Barelli...





How'd We Get Here?



The idea behind the Grim Donut was to skip the drawn-out process of brands getting to the geometry we'll obviously be using in 2030. I mean, if that's where we're going, why don't we just go there now? To do that, we looked at the difference between the numbers we used in 2010 and those we're using today, then we simply applied the difference. To be honest, I'm not sure why no one's done this before.

We're far better at misguided methods than welding, though, so we reached out to Genio, a relatively small but high-end Taiwanese factory.


The Grim Donut


The 160mm-travel frame is known as 'GF7-1-160A​' in Genio's catalog, but after welding two downtubes together to get the required length and applying our future-proofed geometry, it's better known as the Grim Donut. If you need to catch up, here's the first part of the story.

The only thing left to do was ride it, which brings us to the next chapter in the Donut's protracted life.



Timed Testing Aboard the Grim Donut

It's not that I wasn't excited to ride the Donut, it's just that I had some reservations. Sure, I have to get used to a new-to-me bike every few weeks, but I'm usually not wondering if the headtube will decide to take the day off. And the bikes usually aren't seven or eight degrees slacker and about a foot closer to the ground. So yeah, I was apprehensive.

I survived, despite having more pedal strikes in three-hundred-feet than I have over the last three-years, and the Donut's headtube is still on duty to this day. But it was obvious that my cautious approach and the less-than steep trail were, um, less than ideal for the geometry we'll be using in 2030. Thankfully, we know a guy who might not even know what 'cautious' means in English...


The Grim Donut


It got serious as soon as I handed the Donut over to Yoann Barelli. After all, it's one thing for me to go out and have some laughs while riding our wacky bike, but it became obvious that Barelli wasn't joking around. Off the bike, yes. On the bike, not so much. The Frenchman was placing well in the Enduro World Series only a few years ago, and judging by his recent videos I'm not sure he's slowed down one bit since.

The test track was around two-minutes long, full of sharp rocks, steep slabs and, luckily for the Donut, not much pedaling. It's also a trail that Yoann was very familiar with, having used it to evaluate his bikes over the years. That's important because it means he could take consistent lines at a consistent effort during the timed laps rather than having to learn the trail. And speaking of learning, Yoann spent all of a few minutes getting used to the Donut, his only changes from my setup being to raise tire pressures a nip and to rotate the brake levers up to near-level.

bigquotesThe EWS in Chile? This bike wins by a minute. Yoann Barelli

After posting a 2:09 aboard his own bike, itself nearly twenty-seconds quicker than the existing KOM, it was the Donut's turn to go up against the Freelap clock. And if you thought Yoann would be a bit apprehensive given its odd geometry and unfamiliar components, his GoPro footage says otherwise...

2:03

Yoann went six-seconds quicker aboard the Donut over the span of a short, two-minute descent. On his first timed lap. Using completely unfamiliar brakes, tires, and cockpit. My reaction in the video is genuine - I didn't think the Donut would be much slower, but I certainly didn't expect Yoann to go faster. A lot faster.

Is it a coincidence that the Donut is about six-degrees slacker than Yoann's personal bike and he also shaved about six-seconds off his time? Given the Donut's rigorous development and groundbreaking approach to choosing geometry, I'd say there's zero chance of that being the case.

Yoann clearly made the Donut work for him, but that might not mean it makes sense as a daily driver for those of us without a pro racing license. ''No, I don't think so. As a race perspective, I think yes. And I think that maybe this test might make brands see a little out of the box, and if they want racers to be faster, maybe they have to make proper bikes for the racers.''

''Would I ride this bike every day? Absolutely not,'' said Yoann after his run on the Grim Donut. ''The way it is right now, the geometry isn't pleasant. When you pedal, you're going to hit them on the ground. And it doesn't corner properly, but it works when you go super fast.'' Having done some tentative test laps of my own on the Donut, I can confirm that it's a handful when you're not at ten-tenths. ''But on something like that,'' he said of the rocky, high-speed trail, ''where it's kinda fast with long corners, you just have to be pretty centered on the bike and you just go for it!''

It makes sense to hear Barelli say that the Donut's long, slack, and maybe-a-bit-too-low geometry best suits eye-watering speeds, and there's no doubt that its overly-active suspension only helps that cause. Stability and traction equal speed, and that's even truer when both are hard to come by.

"The EWS in Chile? This bike wins by a minute,'' Yoann said of the dusty, loose South American event where racers often say they find only anti-grip.

bigquotesI think that maybe this test might make brands see a little out of the box, and if they want racers to be faster, maybe they have to make proper bikes for the racers. Yoann Barelli


What Do We Do Now?

What do the microwave, Post-It notes, chocolate chip cookies, and the Grim Donut all have in common? They were all fortunate accidents. This was originally meant to be a two-part series and the joke was supposed to be on us; the Donut was supposed to be terrible and we were supposed to learn some kind of lesson. Instead, we may have stumbled onto something promising. Too promising too ignore.

So we're gonna do the only thing we can, which is to begin work on the next Grim Donut prototype. Expected release date: 2030.




Want more Donut?
Part 1: We Went to Taiwan & Made a Bike from the Future - The Grim Donut
Behind the Numbers: The Grim Donut
We Tested Our Bike From The Future - The Grim Donut Part 2 (April Fools)


Created by
Brian Park & Jason Lucas

Produced & Directed by
Jason Lucas

Starring
Mike Levy, Yoann Barelli

Featuring
Chris Cocalis, Aaron Gwin

Additional Footage by
Max Barron, Cole Nelson & Chris Ricci

Words by
Mike Levy & Brian Park

Photography by
Brian Park

Special Thanks to
Yoann Barelli, Aaron Gwin, Calvin Lin at Genio Bikes, SRAM, Connor Bondlow at e*Thirteen
Sam Richards at OneUp, Cody Philips,
TRP Brakes, Chris Cocalis at Pivot, Nick Morgan at
Corsa Cycles, Karl & Radek Burkat



633 Comments

  • 1297 4
 Now we want some proper updates on the donut, we don’t want it to sound like a shopping cart, we don’t want the the bottom bracket to be lawn mower, and we of course want a bottle older.. other than that, it’s good to go I think, Let’s take it to the races Hahahahaha !!!
  • 47 1
 Goddammit I've waited so long
  • 536 3
 I love how you write English with a french accent - bottle older... made my day Smile
  • 1 5
flag DC1988 (Sep 16, 2020 at 7:31) (Below Threshold)
  • 182 0
 Yoann we want to see you in Finale with the Grim Donut! The Grim Yo-nut.
  • 16 5
 I love how your accent comes through via internet as well. Bottle 'older lol.
  • 114 0
 @witica: It's a bike from the future, in the future a "bottle older" will be a thing hahahaha !!
  • 11 2
 @yoannbarelli: at the start of the run on the Commencal you said you planned to ride it at "80-90%". We all love an underdog (underdonut?) story, but can we compare both runs?
  • 9 1
 @cinco: GRIM YO-NUT!!
  • 131 0
 @mi-bike: I think I ended up riding at 97.9% on both bikes, that’s the clock effect on me haha!! But yes I think we will have both runs side by side very soon.
  • 10 1
 @yoannbarelli: haha. Good on you man. Great video
  • 186 1
 Pinkbike needs to give next seasons “The Privateer” a Grim Donut to race on instead of a bike sponsor. Go big, Pinkbike.
  • 42 1
 2021: the return of Yoann Barelli in the EWS on the Grimmer Donut. Also, Into the gnar exist no more. Get ready for Into the grim
  • 3 3
 We need real TESTING the head tube snapping off will scare everyone regardless of devotion. Real testing like Gwinning said shop tension smashing
  • 47 0
 @yoannbarelli Seriously, @pinkbikeaudience @mikelevy , send the man over for the last EWS this year on the donut, what a way to finish off 2020! Now that video I would make popcorn for and slap it up on the big screen!
  • 10 1
 Did you mention to Mike the need for baguette tire inserts?

Got to be thorough no?
  • 16 0
 @Bomadics:
Lets add a chain guide first just for safe measure.
  • 4 1
 @yoannbarelli:
American will drop the H by 2030. Your user of the word "older" is from the future too. LOL
  • 5 0
 Can we have some slight geo tweaks for the next iteration? Quarter of a degree steeper seatpost would be nice.
  • 9 0
 @yoannbarelli: Can't wait for that. Cathro do to the analysis?
  • 2 0
 @ninjatarian: That's a brilliant idea!
  • 13 0
 Now my kid wants a Grom Donut!
  • 3 0
 @Bomadics: rider404 is free I guess. @mikelevy sponsor Thomas lapeyrie !
  • 7 9
 @yoannbarelli: the researcher in me thinks there could be a little recency bias with the head to head. Riding the trail right after on the grim, you knew where you might be able to go faster in a certain section of the trail and likely took a better line. I'd recommend coming back again and switch the order, Grim then Commencal.

I'm still laughing though looking at that circus oddity go down the hill.
  • 11 3
 @witica: older was a typo - it was supposed to be "bottle oldeur" ;-)
  • 9 5
 This is a great bike for racers on the clock but it still does nothing for the urban Midwest freeride customer looking to gap stair sets. There is a place outside of the race, wish brands would recognize that a good super T or Shiver on a 68 hta still has its place.
  • 1 0
 @Bomadics: That would be awesome! It'd be a great way to finish off a rather interesting 2020. I would get the reaction from some of the other pro riders and industry types.
  • 5 0
 A rake that Peter Fonda would feel good about.
  • 3 1
 @cinco: the Grim Baguette!
  • 4 0
 @Dmrides: Le Grim Pain au Chocolat
  • 3 0
 He lives there he knows the trail I’m sure@qdiddy:
  • 2 1
 @yoannbarelli
Turn shock to keep piggy back close to ST that’s should clear space for 7-900mil water bottle mounted horizontal under TT
  • 2 0
 @mi-bike: when I’m breathing that hard, I’m at 130%
  • 1 0
 The world needs more guys like you Yoann...so cool to watch...I wonder what would happen if the HA was 60 and the BB not that stupid low...!?
  • 1 0
 @qdiddy: Seeing the onboard footage, it seems he did a few corners worse then on the first try, not even mentioning the chain coming off. And he knows the trail very well, so don't think there is much in it.
  • 1 0
 @witica: Yesss, I ope it will be taken to races, it will be hopping I ope.
Love French accent in English!!!
  • 273 2
 Is the Donut the right amount of stupid? What should we change for V2?
  • 625 2
 longer, lower, slacker
  • 19 4
 V2 should be called “cuppa joe””
  • 30 0
 Add a bottle cage and T47 bottom bracket and should be ready for mass production.
  • 45 2
 Put a marzocchi monster 300
  • 108 4
 Reverse Super-mullet... 29 rear 26 front to get the BB up a bit.
  • 24 1
 Setup for barspins.
  • 109 2
 Dual crown
  • 23 0
 And more huck to flat... With the Interstellar background music please.
  • 134 0
 Make it a High Pivot!
  • 12 0
 Higher BB and proper ETT
  • 25 4
 Not progressive enough. Need 90 deg STA and 45 deg HTA with a 12 ft reach on a small
  • 45 0
 Seems like a higher bottom bracket would help a lot. Or, just increase the wheel travel in the back a bit and put a dual crown DH fork on the thing. Also, Id be curious to see how the forks bushings wear over time on this v1. This is too much fun!
  • 31 12
 Push the geo and travel into the stratosphere.
www.vitalmtb.com/features/Ultra-Long-210mm-Travel-Enduro-Machine-Is-This-the-Ultimate-MTB,2947

And if you can pull it off, add a dash of electricity. Not full-blown e-Bike, but the future (fortunately or unfortunately) will be electrified.
  • 73 0
 32" wheels
  • 177 0
 @mikelevy more collabs with @yoannbarelli please! I love his vids already, but seeing him test and review bikes would add a lot to your technical content. Not to mention he's entertaining as hell.
  • 37 1
 32 inch tires.... That should do the trick.
  • 9 1
 Launch with a new, wider double uber super boost standard.
  • 35 1
 AERO IS EVERYTHING! Deep section wheels, stick an aerofoil on everything, maybe 27.5 front 29 rear for lower frontal area. The science is there, push the boundaries you cowards. Levy in a latex skin/gimp suit hitting Gnar while holding an aero tuck on the TT bars. That is the future. The future is bright.
  • 16 0
 What do you think about an actual Pinkbike line of bikes? With one special edition that is actually Pink.
  • 31 0
 Tandem it. Ride it with Yoann.
  • 27 0
 I think it's pretty obvious @mikelevy - A donut holder... Who needs water?!
  • 15 1
 V2 should have everything PB users claim they want; Gear Box, 26" Wheels (at least in the back), threaded bottom bracket, etc.
  • 22 0
 Linkage fork
  • 58 5
 Mike, congrats on having a great first prototype! You basically built an all out DH rig squeezed into an enduro platform. If you're going to build an all out race weapon, here's what I'd change: T-47 bottom bracket, 29" rear wheel & raise the bottom bracket slightly. I'd also suggest running a Zeb for a bit more stiffness and possibly a bit more resistance to stiction due to the super slack HTA.

If you're going to try to make it a real trail/enduro bike, you're going to have to make some more serious changes to fix the climbing handling, which likely means raising the bb more than you would on the race bike, as well as steepening/shortening the front end slightly to improve maneuverability.

One note on why bike manufacturers might be so slow to make geometry changes - it's super difficult for designers to sell major changes to product managers, or get them to take a risk on something that's super progressive. That's why you see brands like Pole doing what they're doing, versus the big box guys who operate at a much smaller change rate. Alternatively, the majority of customers ride those bikes from the big box, so we end up with a feedback loop of "this is what everyone's riding, so this is where the industry should be headed". It's maddening. Instead, designers are resigned to making small changes to appease their risk-averse superiors.
  • 16 1
 I see you guys kind of having a rare opportunity to create bikes that are the ultimate bikes, based on your vast testing experience and knowledge of what works well and what doesn't. Yeah bike companies do lots of research and have tons of experience too, but you guys have the experience of riding what all those companies think are the best, and comparing the good and bad attributes of each bike. Just my thoughts. Either way, thanks for all the superb content and especially for the Grim Donut!
  • 1 0
 @skyrez18: Always yes
  • 7 2
 Just a little more stupid'r please....

Buck the low Bb, pedal strike induced carnage trend... Go higher.... Might make it faster and make it worm better in the tight daily corners.

Buck the trend... Go the opposite direction ????????????
  • 33 0
 @mikelevy - a horn that plays “La Cucaracha”!

simpsons.fandom.com/wiki/The_Homer
  • 13 18
flag ebrown123 (Sep 16, 2020 at 7:47) (Below Threshold)
 Slap a motor and a battery on it! The Grim E-Donut. Since apparently that's what we'll all be riding in 2030 anyway...
  • 32 1
 Dial it back a smidge, slacken the seat tube angle by a degree, steepen the head tube angle, sort out that BB height and send Yoann off to Chile to dominate. Maybe tweak that downtube so you can get a bottle in there.
  • 4 0
 That's easy. No corners on the trails, and no chunky climbs.
  • 4 10
flag aljoburr Plus (Sep 16, 2020 at 7:49) (Below Threshold)
 V2 should have a smaller back wheel, Or at least have some kind of adjustment so can still climb?
Hears my Stumpy mod bike that works surprisingly well but could with slightly higher bb or maybe slightly bigger rear wheel?

www.pinkbike.com/photo/19373829

But you got to love my new Trampoline trail feature?
  • 2 0
 There's only one thing to do-- longer, slacker
  • 7 1
 budget version for the masses
  • 6 2
 Gearbox, it is the solution to all modern day bike problems.
  • 9 0
 it just lacks a bunch of new standards
  • 34 0
 Try flipping the fork around in its current state for negative offset. Why not? Might steer better and could bring the BB up just a hair.
  • 5 2
 @mikelevy Did the lyrik feel too flexy or have bushing binding with such a slack HTA? Isn't the whole point of the new Zeb/38 to allow for bikes such as this?
  • 51 1
 @A-HIGHLY-EDUCATED-PROFESSIONAL: lol it’s on the list of dumb things to try. Flipping the fork, putting a 29” rear wheel, maybe a 1 degree angleset to steepen slightly... we’ll see!
  • 21 0
 Get a 38 on there at least. not sure if the heattube will snap, I trust Genio's testing, but I dont think fork manufacturers even have a way of testing for what you are doing at 57*.

I remember that earlier video with the xc bike huck to flat and the shot of the uppers at a visibly different angle from the lowers was categorically terrifying.

Since bikes are not homologated like cars, every category is more or less an open category. Find someone fast who is unsponsored and make them go racing. I dont think you're breaking any uci rules. Not park laps, and silly (amazing) videos- actual, honest 110% effort race runs against a clock. Its the only real test.

Hey Dave, where'd you run off to with those linkage forks? You got a sec?
  • 11 0
 I think you should try to put some boston cream as tire sealant.
  • 15 0
 Have an extreme flip chip that steepens it by 6 degrees for tighter courses.
  • 6 0
 Clearly the pedal strike issue needs to be addressed. Since Yoann said it wouldn't fare well in tighter, more technical trails, maybe look at changes to give it some better cornering characteristics while still keeping it on the donut side of grim!
  • 9 0
 36" wheels.
  • 42 2
 Recently spoke to Marty McFly about the year 2040 and here's what he had to say:

-29 is dead. Get bigger wheels.

-Stems are dead. Handlebars of the future have holes in the middle and slide directly onto the steer tube, secured by pinch fastening hardware.

-All seat tubes now form a perfect perpendicular angle to the ground.

-500mm of reach for a size large is dead. Unless you're laid out like a Tron Bike, you're reach is too short.

-Someone invented a device which lets you have two chainrings on the crankset and shift between them remotely. This allowed the rear cassette to once again, be lighter AND affordable.

- @yoannbarelli is still a fast mofo.
  • 2 43
flag BenTheSwabian (Sep 16, 2020 at 8:26) (Below Threshold)
 What to change for Version 2.0? Steepen the HTA by 6°, slacken the STA and give it a 29" wheel in the back. Then you might be onto something.

But then again, what you would have is basically just a Commencal Supreme dowhnhill bike with a bunch of enduro parts on it.

So, come to think of it, maybe don't bother with making a version 2.0
  • 3 0
 Should put a leaf spring on the front instead, like how old road bikes used a flexy fork for a bit of shmush.
  • 12 0
 @rallyimprezive: Linkage fork for the win!
  • 5 1
 @brianpark: Maybe just flip the crown to get less offset, wouldn't want the brakes pulling on the lowers from the front when braking.
  • 1 0
 More science! Taking angles from 10 years ago and just using the difference is a good starting point, but I think creating a graph of angles/geo over the last 10 years and projecting it 10 years into the future might be more accurate. But then again you may find that in 10 years only 1-2 degrees slacker is the answer, and that's just not enough stupid.
  • 8 2
 @chrod: hate to say it, but agree that a little eboost will take over for trail & enduro bikes.

Broke me neck & got a levo sl to litterally ground me. Shits a ton of fun on flat & rolly trails. No downsides. Even rides like a 40# enduro bike w/ motor off. W/ motor on it turns boring trails to light DH and you can run real tires and not hate life at the 2 hour mark keeping up w/ xc race bikes.
  • 4 0
 like, linkage fork? Go for grounds not taken, not the ones that are here alreay.
  • 5 1
 Put a geabox in it!
  • 4 0
 She needs a 0mm offset fork
  • 1 0
 @mikelevy I would straighten the down tube and gusset both top tube and down tube to the head tube. It would Stiffen the frame and eliminate any doubts of the head tube coming off. Then maybe a 38 on the front to start
  • 12 0
 Super-Mullet: 32" up front and 29" out back. Someone's gotta be willing to work with you to make a custom 32" fork... which would also take care of raising the bottom bracket.
  • 1 0
 145mm cranks and 1.8-inch tabered head tube
  • 10 0
 Higher BB. The longer and slacker the bike the less the BB height matters. That will make it so the bike can be pedaled.
  • 6 0
 4 less degrees in the shade
  • 3 0
 -Raise BB slightly and/or consider 29" wheel out back
-Steepen HA by 1-2 degrees
-Zeb on the front because of more bushing overlap
-Water bottle mount
-Threaded or T47 BB
-Consider high pivot horst link design if this will be for 'enduro/downhill' racing or keep the same for cost reasons

Make those changes and version 2.0 would likely be saleable in the marketplace!

Note: Such slack HTAs would probably require adjusting offset. That said, it may not make a difference if no one will/can make you a fork with proper adjusted offset. You could maybe find a company to manufacture you custom CNC dual crown fork crowns to play with offsets. I'm sure you're trying to avoid running a dual crown fork on there, but that would be an easier way to test offsets.
  • 3 0
 @krumpdancer101: Nah, thats gotta be the trail version. Or better yet the title for the E-bike version
  • 16 0
 It needs a bell that blasts the sound of Yoann's laughter when coming down the trail. Who needs a bell when you have "AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH!!!!!" barreling down the dirt.

C'est SUPER!
  • 14 0
 220mm travel front + rear
Super progressive
240mm rotors
Go super high bb 0mm drop
Equal reach and chainstay 520mm each.
0 offset fork
0mm stem
820mm bar
  • 3 0
 Adjustable chainstay length via flip-chip or swappable drop-out. Make it out of steel so the pro-team-riders will bend the frame instead of snapping it.
  • 7 2
 A new model in the lineup. I want to see a down-country version.
  • 3 0
 @fvYiFGiIx7: Call it Double-Wide Boost
  • 7 0
 At this point I really doubt you need anyone else's advice. The results speak for themselves.
  • 10 0
 If you are looking to get the most from testing another donut-mule, I'd suggest making some significant changes.

The closest production bike I can think of (to the donut) is the Geometron G1.

I think the V2 Donut should split the difference between the V1 Donut Geo, and the Geometron G1.

I'd then test all three bikes back to back with a few different pro riders on at least 3 distinctly different trails.

> oh, and make room for that water bottle Wink
  • 6 1
 Grim Donut AF?
  • 4 0
 @JRW82: This would be downright ripper. Include USD fork and I'm sold!
  • 3 0
 @mikelevy ........dude..... structure cycleworks scw 1 front end..... canyon shapeshifter like linkage that raises the rear end up a touch and decreases the travel for climbs.... and donut storage compartment
  • 6 0
 Lefty needle bearings would help reduce stiction. Maybe talk to some fork guys and see if you can figure something out?
  • 1 0
 Higher BB, or (shorter cranks & longer seat tube) with a Mullet setup.
  • 4 0
 Front wheel is not big enough. Make it bigger, much bigger. And downsize that rear wheel to get the corning prowess back. Penny farthing reborn.
  • 2 1
 High pivot, but then chainstays don't need to grow. If not a high pivot then longer chainstays.
A little higher BB
Try a 59 head angle and your're set for a winners bike =)
  • 3 0
 Put a pivot at the head tube so you can adjust the HTA for climbs by 10 degrees and raise the BB.
  • 1 0
 @krumpdancer101: 'Me'a cuppa' (in a Yorkshire accent of course).
  • 9 0
 SWAT everything. Handlebars. Top tube. Seatpost. Swat in my swat.
  • 1 1
 Let’s make a carbon version
  • 3 0
 @brianpark: Shorter cranks? If you're only going downhill anyway....
  • 8 0
 Just slap some 150mm cranks and call it a day.
  • 3 1
 Make it a heard trail
  • 7 0
 Kids version: Grimbit
not sure if that has been been mentioned
  • 1 1
 @4thflowkage:
How about on the fly geometry adjustment while riding?
  • 1 1
 v2 needs a 45 degree HTA.
  • 5 0
 I know this sounds like heresy, but I would be curious to try the Cotic approach with longer chainstays to balance the front and rear centers, so the bike can rotate easier. Maybe even make 'em adjustable at the dropout. It probably won't do tight stuff well regardless of the wheelbase. I'm going to assume the Donut is far from "playful", so might as well make it handle a little better. Obviously this would require some linkage rework... But hopefully wouldn't need a new front triangle. I'd also lean towards higher BB, shorter cranks, or both. Everything else is perfect IMO. Just need a fidlock universal strap on the downtube for a waterbottle. Smile
  • 7 3
 Seems like the only realistic pupose for this bike would be DH racing on open tracks. So why not focus on DH only?
To me this thing would get so much funnier and more interesting if you get performances out of such a random design.
Beef it up, put dual crown fork and a full set of DH components, make it longer, lots of travel, bigger wheels if possible, etc.
If you manage to get a rider to smash race times on this, it would be the funniest of all!
  • 2 1
 @spaceofades: if you grab the last gen 160mm lefty, you can machine crowns for essentially any offset and any axle to crown length (for 29ers). There are also companies that will do a custom damping tune to it as well. I think that the lefty with an updated damper has the potential to be the best performing front shock out there.
  • 2 0
 @JokerT: low pivot!! Lol
  • 9 0
 You've gone stupid on the geometry but you need to have bigger wheels! We went from 26 to 29, the Donut needs 32s!!!
  • 4 0
 Nitroshox/Millyard oleo strut suspension
  • 1 0
 Make the bike better at climbing, and better on flat-ish trails while not compromising the DH-ability.
  • 1 0
 Gearbox
  • 5 0
 @skyrez18:
Grim Winnebago?
  • 4 2
 adjust fork offset to something like 34mm
200 mm dual crown, 180 back
29" x 2.8" knobby front tire and 27,5" x 4" semislick back
300 mm dropper post
electric everything including blue LEDs and wifi
  • 3 0
 A higher bb and 180mm in the back, double crown and you're sorted!
  • 2 0
 Ditch the rear suspension. Raise BB. Double crown fork. Flux capacitor.
  • 4 0
 @kinematix: Surely you mean "barelli"ng down the dirt?
  • 5 0
 @brianpark: If you are to be true to the mathematical basis for this bike. You would want a 23mm offset to trend to 2030 not a negative 37mm. You would have to use a fork with a reverse arch, like Manitou, but could you just reverse the crown and install the lowers on facing forward? So the crown has a negative offset and the lowers have a positive offset. Then the net might achieve the goal.
  • 3 1
 @chrod: Aston's living in the future alright, HA is a bit steep. Needs a 26" wheel in back
  • 2 0
 On V2 you should use wireless 378mm dropper from Maxxis or Michelin compatible with you office chair, and add bluetooth, that would be nice
  • 5 0
 Lower BB, 100mm cranks.
  • 7 1
 Bring back Paul Aston for ideas on the v2.
  • 11 0
 @vapidoscar: we tried to reverse the crown on the Lyrik but it didn't clear the arch. The new Zeb and 38 should clear though...
  • 3 3
 Take a couple of degrees off the head angle but whack a massive offset on the forks. I ride a rigid Stooge Mk4 with about a 68° actual head angle but the fork rake puts the wheel way out front and the 'axle to bar' head angle at more like 64°... Result is quick handling in the tights stuff but monster truck stability at speed and on the steeps. The only way I can see of doing this with a telescopic fork is with a big offset (which is bang off trend so perfect for the donut!). Or maybe tap-up "Rocksled Suspension" in the UK who is developing his own linkage fork - that way you could stick the front wheel as far out front as you like!?
  • 5 0
 Looks like the BB's gotta go up at least half a Timbit.
  • 2 0
 @DMal: it needs speed holes
  • 2 0
 @pnwpedal: Yes! His enthusiasm is contagious, so much fun to watch on and off the bike
  • 1 0
 you need to partner up with SRAM to come up with some new standar that can make the bike a more rounded feeling. The warp speeds this machine can deliver ask for bigger axles, wider hubs and what not.
  • 4 3
 e-Donut PLZ! 29 inch rear wheel would be really cool too. I would made a crowdfund to build another bike version,a V2 bike and another e-Donut bike.
  • 1 0
 You need to increase reach more, so that one is forced to run their stem backwards, like a boat tiller.
  • 3 0
 oh, and how about 880 mm 12° backsweep bars?
  • 1 0
 Just flip the fork lowers around.
  • 5 2
 Get Paul Aston to review it! He's done a great job on Rocky ebikes, and has built his own amazing bike, so it would be amazing to hear his feedback on what he would change.
  • 1 0
 32er out front!
  • 1 0
 @A-HIGHLY-EDUCATED-PROFESSIONAL: I like that idea, actually...user name checks out
  • 5 0
 Grim Donut- XC edition. Extrapolate XC bike changes from the last 5 years. forward 10 years. Downcountry extreme.
  • 3 0
 Turn around the lowers on the fork to get the trail under control with that head angle. Or a linkage fork.
  • 1 0
 @Fabris:

Following trends, this would result in a 1.5 kilo 120mm full suspension frame, which would require far more engineering, R&D, and material science than Pinkbike is willing or capable of doing.
  • 4 0
 Bars so wide, even double track becomes questionable...
  • 2 0
 Trust fork with mullet setup....
  • 1 0
 longer reach, less slack HT, higher BB
  • 1 0
 @jacktisaac: 24/26 180mil dj/dh?
  • 2 0
 Do the cat thing to it
  • 1 0
 @Mattysville: snorted with laughter here...
  • 1 0
 V2 should be called "double double"
  • 1 0
 @Fabris: that's a Stumpy Evo
  • 1 0
 @bikepubes please inform
  • 1 0
 Surely 2.0 suspension could be handled by Cornelius Kapfinger @mikelevy
  • 3 0
 Just make the changes suggested by Yoann, nothing needs to be changed other than some refinement, the grim donut is nearly perfect already!
  • 9 0
 Two seatpost. One for climbing and one for descending. I don't mean a dual position dropper post. I mean, two individual seat tubes, each with it's own seatpost. One super steep and one more slack.
  • 2 0
 @Trudeez: this is genius.
  • 2 0
 Maybe a ZEB or something
  • 2 0
 Paint it pink.
  • 4 0
 It’s a shame Trust folded because the axle path from their forks might have been interesting to try here. Obviously time for Levy to pull a few strings with Weagle...
  • 2 1
 1. Give it a travel adjust/ height adjust lever like a Scott Ransom/ old Cannondale Jekyll as if there was ever a bike that neeeded pedal clearance for climbing, the Donut is that bike. I know I know the name for that style shock but I’ve had one too many Negronis to remember while I type.

2. Ok, if we are going to talk about the future and need to find when something goes wrong: we need bigger wheel options. When is a wheel too big?

3. And dammit, you didn’t eff it up enough!!! Go slacker until you find the lower limit.

4. Thank you. God dammit. Thank you. Tired of barely different evolutionary bullshit. Push the damn envelope. And then again. And again. And again.
  • 1 0
 The most entertaining video I have seen for awhile! If I was designing V2 I'd try slightly higher BB and around 59 HA. It would still be revolutionary but maybe have slightly better trail manners. The high pivot idea would be nice to try also, but that would probably involve way more engineering I am guessing. Can't wait to see what V2 looks like!!
  • 2 0
 Put a motor for climbing effieciency.
  • 1 0
 @schlockinz: Grim Donut CF?
  • 2 0
 Mullet bike! 32'' front, 29'' rear should do the trick
  • 3 0
 in 2030 we will all be interested in currently hated E-Donut or E-Grim Smile
  • 1 0
 Get a sponsorship from STFU.Bike @mikelevy
  • 2 0
 @brianpark: I don't think there's any point to going dumber. You're - amazingly - actually on to something. Ask Johann for his desired changes, make them, race the thing, convince the industry to make bikes less fun for everyone. What have you guys done....
  • 1 0
 make it an eBike to help with the climbs. Increase the BB height and adjust head tube angle to 58%
  • 1 0
 @uncanny: No to 29 out back, its faster partly because its a mullet. Do some googling - most people including the likes of Bruni, Hart and others are quicker on a smaller back wheel than a 29x2, but not by this margin.
@mikelevy - I'd say you need to try and determine which design factors are contributing to the speed and then try and keep them while designing some of the more serious quirks out - like the too low BB and too active suspension. This may of course be impossible because compromises will have to be made. This bike may be the ultimate horse for a particular course and is perfect just the way it is...
  • 2 0
 Front: +60mm (size up to L)
Rear: +30mm
Fork: Dual crown
Bottom bracket: A few mm above current standards, we're at the right amount of stupid already.
Wheelsize: 32F, 29R
  • 1 0
 I think the potential is being hugely missed for your forward thinking design approach Mike. I forsee the need for this quickly become the downhill rig all pro racers didn't know they needed. So, I say for the V2 you should slap on some dual crown forks, and focus on it's pedegree. Downhill racing.
  • 2 0
 How about running a Grim Donut DH project in parallel? I'd be fascinated to see if a DH bike with 500mm+ reach, 460mm chain stays and a 57 degree head angle would be and quicker than a 2020 race rig down something like Schleyer>Detroit Rock City>Lower Whistler downhill.
  • 1 0
 whatever it is, got to call it the "Double, double"
  • 1 0
 @JRW82: Like some Galfer 246mm rotors?
  • 1 0
 Design a cavity in the top tube for an integrated water bottle holder
  • 1 0
 @skyrez18: Ha ha, every new frame iteration from every bike company is longer lower and slacker (with a steeper seat tube) than before. Thanks to the Grim Donut for skipping a few generations.
  • 1 0
 A pinion gear box, wider bars, dual crown, hot pink in colour!!!!!
  • 1 0
 @mikelevy
Plenty enduro bikes with 216mm shock back of the days
Would be easy transfer for some ppl that can’t afford Full brand new bike - they just need front wheel and fork

Also shock position (reverse) with piggy back on ST side would create more vertical space under TT to accommodate large water bottle

Hope you bake that donut for mass destruction- mean riders Smile
  • 1 0
 @skyrez18: And louder!
  • 1 0
 I think for it truly to be the bike of the future it needs a gearbox and a dromedary in the down tube? Bottle holders will be a thing of the past. Make those two modifications and I’ll take one.
  • 1 0
 26-36er mullet ripper !!!
  • 1 0
 Maybe get Canondale to help. They can do their lefty thing with it: The Low Nut?
  • 1 0
 #mikelevy
Raise bb 20mm
160 cranks
Make it a medium so maybe 30mm on the top tube and 15 on the chain stays. Get a shock with a lock out and don't lose it.
Don't f*ck it up
  • 1 0
 The Long John needs to have a high pivot
  • 1 0
 Drop bars
  • 3 0
 @chrod: Nicolai is that brand where they never intended to make a ton of money, because once you've bought one frame, you're set for any trail ride. I have a buddy with an eerily similar build to this (Fox 49 instead of Marzocchi). Absolutely monster bike.
  • 2 0
 A fork with adjustable travel to lower the front end for Climbs.
  • 1 0
 @Glory831Guy: Nonsense, this is ancient mysterious technology lost to history and never to return.


I loved my U-turn forks.
  • 1 0
 @Glory831Guy: you’d need 110 cranks if you dropped the fork and BB with it.
  • 128 1
 This is like when Shane McConkey skied an Alaska spine on waterskis. Just to show it could be done and that reverse camber wide skis were the future. Were future skis shaped exactly like waterskis? Not really (some got close). But the experiment helped push design and tech to the edge. This is the same and it's pretty dang well done. Take a bow Pinkbike.
  • 7 2
 Ya, 9 years ago I had the hellbents and then the Surface New Lifes- they skied sooo good. I thought that was the future of skiing, but now its swung back to being more conservative. I don't see anyone on skis with 120mm+ underfoot anymore...
  • 59 6
 On that note: I'm waaaay sicker than Yoann, I cant believe he's pro.
  • 10 0
 @hamncheez: Totally but I don't think a 110ish waisted ski would be "normal" (maybe BC normal?) without people (Shane!) pushing the outer limits. I still see a lot of 120 plus skis on the right day though... Remember at the time McConkey started pushing that envelope a 90 waist ski (Volant Chubb) was considered laughably fat. I think if anything the Grim Doughnut may be evidence that, as they note, there might be an application for some of these tweeks- I think now they need to figure out what aspects worked how and how to refine them to make a better user experience.
  • 2 1
 @Rconroy: sicker...is it Covid related??
  • 8 2
 @Rconroy: massively underrated comment!
  • 8 1
 @Rconroy: No way, I'm the best biker on the mountain.
  • 2 0
 @hamncheez: fat-ypus makes a ski that's 140 underfoot
  • 6 0
 @hamncheez: I still ride my hellbents every ski day. Favorite ski I've owned.

A friend had alpine trekkers on his hellbents. He made the best skin tracks - super wide!
  • 5 0
 I don't think pinkski exists yet, you guys should start it...
  • 7 0
 @CaMKii: so glad the Gaffney Numerical Assessment of Radness (GNAR) lives on.
  • 2 0
 @Rconroy: nice call out. How many points is that again?
  • 5 0
 @Trudeez: Not sure, we're going to have to go to the tape Bob.

vimeo.com/18809446
  • 1 0
 @Rconroy: I think the only respectable reply from Yoann would be to BN the GD
  • 3 0
 Please, let’s all take a breath, Pinkbike isn’t planting a flag anywhere with this bike. Aside from the head angle, this is the bike that Chris Porter and Paul Aston have been trying to sell you for the last 5 years. Go back and look at all of Astons articles, go look at the bike he’s riding now. You want one? Call Geometron and they’ll make one for you that works even better.
  • 3 0
 @SlodownU: I replied in the podcast post as well, but yeah I mean other than a 5.3° slacker head-tube angle, 4.7° steeper seat-tube angle, and a significantly lower BB... it's totally the same. Smile
  • 101 1
 OK so the reason why this took so long is because they discovered that they had unwittingly made the fastest bike in history and got locked in a months-long legal and IP battle trying to sell their invention to the highest bidder.
  • 49 2
 Or maybe it took so long to find an honest racer who will openly admit that grim donut is faster than the sponsors bike.
  • 30 0
 @rifu: I was actually surprised they managed to get a sponsored rider to give this a fair assessment, let alone post a faster time than his sponsor's bike. Maybe because the Grim Donut is not actually from a competing frame company?
  • 14 2
 @jackfunk: i got loads of respect for @yoannbarelli for this, makes me want a commencal more (ironically the only thing that stopped me getting the new meta am was the chainstays were shorter than i wanted)
  • 1 0
 @GumptionZA: Ha, I actually ride a Meta Am. I liked the shorter stays just because I was getting into MTB from a BMX background.
  • 1 0
 @jackfunk: the association of factories and brands is flawed. Several brand’s bikes are manufactured alongside specialized in Asia but that doesn’t mean there’s any financial connection between the brands.
  • 1 1
 @jackfunk: Ooo such a conspiracy!!
  • 7 0
 @kleinblake @Thirty3 I wasn't referring to brands/factories being associated in creating the Donut. My point was that since the Grim Donut is just a joke bike from Pinkbike, Commencal probably wasn't bummed about Yoann promoting it. I doubt they would have let Yoann promote a bike from Specialized or Trek, you know what I mean?
  • 1 0
 @jackfunk: oh yeah you right
  • 96 0
 The worst part of life is waiting. The best part of life is to have something worth waiting for.
  • 7 1
 Grim donut video, GoPro 9 reveal and PS5 pricing and date info this evening, what will I have to get overhyped for from now on?


(answer is obviously Nintendo switch pro/2)
  • 62 0
 As a bald guy who talks with a basic northern California accent and rides really slow, Yoann is definitely not helping to boost my ego. That said, time to put a dual crown on the donut and give it to a DH racer with questionable judgement (Brendog?).
  • 52 0
 Hey look Chris Porter was right all along.
  • 49 2
 "...the geometry isn't pleasant"... Oh man, that had me cracking up.

I know Fox, and Rockshox will all be praying this headtube angle doesn't catch on. Otherwise, they'll have to figure how to prevent not only creaking, but snapping steerer tubes.
  • 46 0
 I loved it as a joke, but I love it even more as an EWS secret weapon that started as a joke.
  • 2 0
 I was watching and thinking... is adjustable HA going to make a return (Devinci from 15 years ago)? Or maybe pros will have a couple of frame options depending on the track now!
  • 42 0
 Pinkbike: The Right Amount of Stupid (tm)
  • 35 2
 The motto from day one on this project.
  • 6 0
 @brianpark: I feel like this needs to be added to the back of the Grim Donut shirt for the next run! We need size XL back in stock!
  • 4 0
 Also add "You're thank you" (tm). Haha loved that.
  • 38 0
 That was very entertaining...and I was distracted by Yoann's hair more than once.
  • 4 2
 He's just too hot.
  • 13 0
 He has flow according to both the MTB and hockey standards.
  • 2 0
 He had a Fabio-esque flow going at the start.
  • 2 0
 @bikeybikeybikebike: very Canadian and Minnesotan. Good combo.
  • 35 1
 At 15:48, if you listen closely, you can hear Commencal tearing up Yoann's contract.
  • 28 0
 why? because we are having fun? hahaha !!
  • 16 0
 @yoannbarelli and @commencalbikes, bravo for stepping up and joining the fun! I feel like most brands wouldn't even entertain the idea of an informal collaboration like this, THEN still go ahead with it, even though the Donut had the faster time.

IMO, modern consumers are more saavy and less responsive to cookie-cutter marketing and appreciate brands that are honest, approachable, have fun, aren't insecure egomaniacs, etc... Kinda like what we look for in other people that we invest our time with. My 2 cents.
  • 4 0
 @yoannbarelli: are you going to have to break it to Max Commencal that some donut-muching journalist is now the designer of the world's fastest bike? Max had a pretty good run, I guess
  • 1 0
 @yoannbarelli: Exactly ha ha. All jokes aside, seeing you shred the doughnut was amazing!
  • 1 0
 @yoannbarelli: hey Yoann, do you think @commencalbikes will make a one-off custom geo Grim Meta for you?
  • 30 0
 Things my 2019 bike has in common with the Grim Donut:

- 2 wheels with brakes and tires
- it sounds like a shopping cart going downhill

This was worth the wait.
  • 31 0
 I just want to be a part of this historic comment section
  • 4 0
 Here. Let me be with the cool kids!
  • 34 3
 Waki died for this. Rest in peace.
  • 3 2
 What happened with waki?
  • 19 1
 @johnny2shoes: It was only a metaphorical death. He's okay and still hunting mushrooms in the forests.
  • 5 1
 @iamamodel: Word is he found the key to the Portal
  • 7 1
 @iamamodel: Every few weeks while out on a ride I wonder how Waki is doing.

How does he fill his time that he no longer spends commenting on PB?
Is his (architecture?) business flourishing with all that free time?
Does he still read all the comments?
Or is he just shroomin' all day in Sweden?

.... These are the things I wonder.
  • 30 0
 Can't wait for the Gwin donut.
  • 11 0
 Going to be an intense wait.
  • 58 30
 The most popular thing on pinkbike was initiated by a waki sketch... And yet Brian Park still him gunned down in the street (metaphorically) a few months back. RIP Waki.
  • 5 4
 Link?
  • 13 4
 Peace be upon him
  • 26 2
 @colincolin: ep1.pinkbike.org/p5pb13635025/p5pb13635025.jpg

Plus I think he did the sketch in the actual grim doughnut video
  • 33 18
 Good riddance
  • 16 13
 Wait, what happened to Waki?? I miss him...
  • 16 2
 @gibspaulding: legend says he still lurks
  • 8 17
flag Narro2 (Sep 16, 2020 at 9:41) (Below Threshold)
 People dont see it yet but Waki got replaced my Mike Levy, Pinkbike knew there was demand for that type of corky personality, the problem was that Waki went over the top a lot of times and PB was never able to control him at full extent. I like them both btw.
  • 74 6
 @Narro2: ...Mike Levy is a longstanding Pinkbike employee, Waki is a guy with too much time on his hands.

For the record as much as some of Waki's comments aren't welcome here anymore, he left on his own and we're still on good terms. We still want to get him out here for a ride one day!
  • 23 0
 @brianpark: holy shit two big scoops in one article lol
  • 10 5
 @brianpark: Haha, i dont disagree with you Brian, I’ve been a fan of both since my first account back in 2009, what I am trying to say is that people on the webpage like personalities like Mike and the Waki, and it doesnt matter where they come from.
I am glad you guys are in good terms with him, someone defended the waki almost a decade ago with this “alfter a long ride I would much rather have a pint with Waki than with an uptight politically correct guy.” I am paraphrasing but it was something like that.
  • 11 3
 @Narro2: I think we'd all rather have a pint with [insert anyone else here] than an uptight politically correct guy. In fact, I'd rather drink by myself. "Hey, let's go to the pub so we can be lectured on our jokes!" said no-one ever.
  • 15 3
 PB comments are a lot more chill now, in a good way..
  • 1 1
 @zyoungson:
I quit* drinking 3 months ago or I'd say "hold my beer....."


*on a break.

Which reminds me that I wanted to compliment the use of TRPs on the GD. Those are some well-behaved, sensible stoppers
  • 26 0
 I say we start a GoFundMe to get Yoann to race this monster for an entire season. I would pay just to watch him practice the stages and laugh about the bike the entire time.
  • 4 0
 I'm sure it wouldn't happen but maybe instead Commencal match the geo and Yoann races that!
  • 35 11
 We NEED to have Paul Ashton to give this a go.
  • 11 2
 Oooo, shots fired! Paul, the man who singled single-handedly destroyed an 'envious' company's reputation (the company earned it, but you get the point). Big Grin
  • 13 0
 Did you see his bike check over on Vital?

This bike is his actual we dream.
  • 10 0
 @mtmc99: That's exactly what I'm getting at lol. I think people are interpreting my original comment in the wrong way. Based off of his vital article, the grim donut is basically perfectly in line with what he believes a bike should be. I'd actually like to hear his take on it.
  • 53 6
 @nskerb:

The G1 I built is exactly what I believe in as I've all done a lot of testing on it past the extremes and back again. I believe the geometry on my bike is ideal because: any slacker in the HA causes problems, making the seat angle steeper causes problems, making the BB too low causes problems.

That's not to say things won't change in the future, but at the moment with current components on the market I don't think there is any room to improve. I hope that all geometry will settle down to be the same across the market in the same way MX bikes are - then people can focus on tuning the rest of the bike to get the best performance from it.
  • 8 0
 @paulaston: This is awesome. Thanks for the reply Paul. I probably was off the mark saying "perfectly in line" with what you want or think is ideal. But I see this as being on a similar trend, albeit not exactly like your ideal bike. Anyways, I did think it was cool to read your Vital article and seeing the detail you have put into your bike that is comparatively way more progressive than most bikes we see on the bleeding edge today.
  • 15 1
 I cheer the vision but that Vital article was a 1/2 lesson in confirmation bias. Good info and explicit reasoning but too many sweeping statements and generalizations. There's a place for that bike and I'm certain it's zeroing in on PA's ideal but as soon as I hear the hyperbole and blanket statements, I tune out; there are too many variations in terrain, rider, expectations and preferences to ever get to 'here it is all sorted, now go'. Redmeat to the true believers. I do give credit to PA as at least he gave his reasoning on every detail.
  • 11 4
 @paulaston: Why would you hope that all bikes have the same geometry? No thanks.
  • 1 0
 @paulaston: that’s exactly how I feel!
  • 6 2
 @jwdenver:

Well if I think I have the perfect geometry for all types of mountain biking, why would I want any different?

Of course, it would still be different for BMX, road cycling and other disciplines.
  • 19 0
 In hindsight should any of this really be surprising?

Almost everything is bike design is a compromise isn't it? softer supple suspension will give more traction and eat up bumps but it will cost pedaling efficiency. Slack head angles and long wheel bases make a bike stable but compromise handling. Soft knobby tires provide great grip but roll like shit. You can apply this to almost every part of bike design.

So looking back, the Donut was designed basically to one extreme. Long, low, supple and slack. It isn't all that crazy that the bike performed so well when matched up to a track on the same end of the spectrum, that was fast, steep, and required very little steering or pedaling.
  • 3 0
 Right. No-one would drive an F1 car around, but none of our cars would beat an F1 car on an F1 circuit.

The suggestion of 'racer only' bikes isn't too far-fetched. Mind you, there's plenty that will take the comfort hit (et al) in order to be pure 'racer'.
  • 22 0
 The future is.... Grim.
  • 18 0
 I feel like I've been waiting my whole life for this!
  • 13 0
 And now its here! 2020 make sense again!
  • 3 64
flag colincolin (Sep 16, 2020 at 7:30) (Below Threshold)
 You know what. PB can fcuk right off. The donut is cancelled. I feel so betrayed by now that I don't even want to care about thing anymore
  • 19 0
 @colincolin: well, f*ck off then?
  • 6 0
 @byfan: @byfan: love the question mark.
  • 15 1
 @mikelevy Can you please post an itemized cost breakdown for what it took to make the entire bike? I'm talking frame material cost, frame fabrication labor cost, components (assuming this might've been built with parts laying around). I'd love to see an out-the-door cost breakdown for what it would take to complete a "self-designed" custom-built one off bike like this. Purely curious!
  • 16 0
 Thanks to the Pinkbike crew for making this content FREE!
  • 12 0
 That was fantastic. Thank you Pinkbike and @mikelevy for truly original content. Most of the stuff online in the sea of Mtb channels are just repeats of the same stuff. This was different, interesting and most importantly FUN
  • 14 1
 For V2, we need the "pleasant cupcake." A dessert not so grim, for the rest of us
  • 14 0
 Levy, the grimmest thing here is the amount of food on that mac.
  • 10 0
 That poor Mac is grimmer than you think...
  • 12 0
 Everyones life would be better if we were to hang around with Barelli...what a dude!
  • 12 0
 Mike's been busy on the Mini, looks great!
  • 12 1
 I know the OEM sales manager for MRP, we can solve those chain drop problems and quiet down that racket!
  • 8 0
 Whoa! The fact that it’s not completely unridable would have been victory enough for me. But then to have it go 6 seconds faster after losing the chain on the second run is nothing short of impressive.

As for it being the bike of the future? The mass market generally has to ride these things up, too, and wont always have access to steep flowy trails. As Yoann said, he wouldn’t want it for his everyday bike. And how in the hell does a bike designed by Pinkbike not have room for a water bottle? But it looks like the future of racing — downhill racing, anyway — will be even longer and slacker than what they got going now. Maybe they’ll make a bigger leap in geometry than usual next season.

Well done @mikelevy and the rest of Pinkbike crew.
  • 8 0
 Yoann- the next Privateer? Instead of enduro racing, why not make the Grim DHonut just for DH? Otherwise, the right amount of stupid to make climbing somewhat enjoyable with this geo might have to be powered by Shimano...
  • 2 0
 Ben Cathro's rig for next season?
  • 11 0
 We need POV of Yoann riding the Donut down psychosis
  • 10 0
 If anybody wants geometry like this without going to Taiwan, Contact REEB Cycles. Ill weld one up for you.
  • 6 0
 Interesting comment suggesting manufacturers making race bikes for racers.

I assume he means pure prototype for racing only, that disregards any real-world requirements to prioritise race performance. Much like a MotoGP bike compared to the road-legal superbike for sale in the showroom.

In the MotoGP scenario, that bike would be terrible at trying to operate in the real-world, given the different demands of riding on streets/roads/traffic compared to racetrack and vice-versa.

But how different is WC downhill, EWS enduro etc riding compared to the non-competitive riding the rest of us do (aside from speed and skill of the racers of course)? What (i think) i mean is, in terms of bike design, are race demands pretty similar to real-world demands? Or perhaps would a DH bike (for example) designed as a pure prototype for WC racing be designed any differently than a DH bike for someone who is riding DH trails/parks for fun? And i'm thinking strictly of bike design here, rather than componentry.
  • 1 1
 As far as MotoGP goes, those bikes have to be one off prototypes by the rules. They can not share any parts with a production bike. WSBK is probably closer to a racers specific bike vs real riders bike. Loosely based on something you can buy, but, not really anything close to what you get for road use and a WSBK would be terrible on the road.
  • 2 0
 @JSTootell: I see what you mean, and appreciate your reply.

What i was trying to ask, albeit not very well, was:

A racer's motorbike is designed to go around in a circle(ish) at top speed for a relatively short time/distance. A customer's motorbike is designed for lower speeds, roads, traffic, comfort etc. Hence the design differentiates for the different demands.

A DH racer's bike is designed for riding a DH trail. A DH customer's bike is designed for... riding a DH trail.

So what i'm wondering is if there is any significant design divergance between a race bike and a customer bike when the environment for use is pretty similar?
  • 15 2
 I actually don't totally agree with Yoann here. I think slower riders have benefits from this kind of geometry too—they're just benefits of safety and stability rather than warp speed.
  • 3 1
 It would be all over the place. Sam Hill uses a M size, when he could get away with XL. Same for Richie Rude. Then there is Gwin on XL when he should be on a size L. My thinking is that every rider is different, likes different aspects of their bikes. Some prefer the ultra short chainstays. Others love the stability and centered position the longer one offers. My takeaway from all this grim show is that a longer bike with long chainstay and high rise bars provide best qualities to plow, high bottom bracket requires less lean angle, get better usage of square profile tires and better braking from the weight not being under the axle line. But thats me
  • 3 0
 I think the problem is that you likely can't just lump all "racing" into the same bucket. The bikes ultimately still have to have some versatility because each track is different. What might be the best bike on one track might not be the best for the next. You'd essentially be getting into a situation where you'd have to prototype a different bike for each track. Obviously bikes that are marketed to consumers have to be somewhat versatile, but I think that holds true even for racing at the highest levels.
  • 2 0
 @brianpark: or an average mortal can easily achieve speed that's hard to control and survive. Again, motoGP bike in the hands of amateur is the easiest way to kill yourself.
  • 2 0
 It is interesting but as commenters have pointed out it might not be clear what ‘racers’ want. I remember when Honda released their new rc213 mbike the head angle was made much slacker compared to the Race bike
  • 6 0
 This bike test has created a proper argument for track specific geometry for racing. Pro racers have been keeping logbooks of suspension settings for various tracks for many years. But actual full on massive geometry changes based on the track have never really happened before. In downhill racing, Greg Mannar experiments more than anybody. Longer chain stays and angle headsets. Pushing the limits on frame sizing. Prototype track specific frames are probably going to be the future of pro racing.
  • 3 0
 This... What the Grim shows is that one bike is not perfect for every track. The only reason it was so fast is because the track was perfect for it.
  • 1 0
 The UCI does mandate that bikes need to be production bikes within a year of being raced(I believe anyway) I have wondered where prototypes parts, or frames that never make it to production, land according to the rules, but race only bikes might be a step too far.

Maybe they could do like Racing cars and be forced into making a certain number of special pro racing model to get around the rule. With cars they would be called homologation specials, like the Ford RS200 or the Renault 5 Turbo. It would be a lot easier with bikes obviously, so why not?
  • 9 0
 Where do I sign. Take my money. Makes my Geometron look ancient
  • 9 0
 Sounds like we've got a frame for the next season of the Privateer.
  • 11 2
 Looks like Paul Aston's new bike. But more conservative.
  • 10 0
 This is good Pinkbike.
  • 8 1
 Time for a charity auction of the world's #1 sketch steed. Well done PB gang *applause af*
  • 23 0
 if you listen carefully you can probably here PB's lawyers screaming absolutely not from wherever you are
  • 1 0
 Maybe sketch sled would be more accurate.
  • 8 0
 Things I was not expecting: That.
  • 6 1
 Head over to the green mountain bike site, and they have a bike check by the excommunicated Paul Aston, who made his dream enduro bike (with 61 degree HTA). He thinks ultra slack is the future.
  • 4 0
 I'd argue that this only looks as "out there" as the Mondraker Summum or Geometron did when they first came out geo wise... who know's what will be the norm for race bikes in a few years? I can't imagine it being a lot of fun for most peoples weekly riding mind, but as a pure race machine... bits of this definitely make sense.

I can imagine a linkage fork making more sense for HA this slack?
  • 1 0
 I feel like a lot of things about this bike are similar to my Geometron G1 - it's fast on steep, loose stuff and isn't the best on flat cornering/slower things. I knew that going into it. It's why I own 2 mtbs.
  • 5 0
 Raise the BB to 375 and let it rip. Low BB's matter less and less as the bikes get longer and slacker. Overall this is absolutely epic and shows how far out of the box we need to go to really test the limits.
  • 4 0
 Whatever you do, put a massive knuckle-band-aid-type aluminum gusset around the head tube and attached to the top tube and down tube. Im no engineer but would think this remove some worry of the head tube snapping off? Would stiffen it up a bit, but maybe transfer too much into the crown of the fork...

Other thought is that since you guys are now in the bike frame manufacturing business you might as well start making suspension components! I would think that even if you steepened the headtube angle a little on V2, any standard round stanchion fork would have issues with stiction climbing (slow speed impacts etc). Im sure someone already mentioned this above, but cannondale lefty forks with needle bearings is the answer. Make this bike uglier and even better performing - design a square stanchioned telescoping fork with needle bearings. Throw some zerc fittings in for regular greasing. You guys already turned the industry on its head with the grim donut frame. Might as well kick some sand in its face with the "Éclair" square stanchion needle bearing technology fork!
  • 7 0
 Thank you Mike Levy. You are forgiven!
  • 8 1
 I donut know what I would do without this article finally coming out
  • 2 0
 Grim prospects of living without it.
  • 6 3
 My last Grim Donuts comment in there: www.pinkbike.com/u/mikelevy/blog/field-test-9-xc-bikes--and-the-grim-donut-vs-the-efficiency-test.html

wasn't too far off.

And I have the same accent as Yoann, and a tenth of the speed, technique and style. Looks to me like a great combination to test the next prototype. @mikelevy you can PM me to hash out the details
  • 7 0
 20 min of my life well spent. Thanks Levy
  • 16 0
 45 after I read the comments!
  • 4 0
 One of the reasons this bike sucks at climbing is the chainstay length is actually pretty short given the rest of the numbers. Go 470 or bust! Also do dual 36in f/r and that should also raise BB height a bit.
  • 17 0
 Agreed a slightly longer CS is in the cards, but because of the STA it actually has a pretty good climbing position. The comments about it climbing like shit are more to do with the low BB and the utter lack of anti squat.
  • 2 0
 @brianpark: I think another benefit of the longer chainstay would also be to help it in slower speed techy stuff despite the longer wheelbase. It would help with balance in these situations and decrease need for dramatic rider weight shifts.
  • 1 0
 @brianpark: @brianpark: I think another benefit of the longer chainstay would also be to help it in slower speed techy stuff despite the longer wheelbase. It would help with balance in these situations and decrease need for dramatic rider weight shifts.
  • 7 0
 @mikelevy why not do more timed laps for a better base comparison???
  • 14 0
 We will.
  • 7 0
 Coming in 2022!
  • 4 1
 I don't get the pedal strikes. My 27.5 bike has 20mm bb drop and 175mm cranks. This 27.5 (rear) bike has 30mm bb drop and 155mm cranks. 10mm more drop 20mm less cranks. Two variables that I don't know how to account for: 1) 30mm more travel and 2) 15mm longer chain stays on the Donut.

Serious questions: is it the kinematics? not enough compression damping? extra travel? axle path?
  • 2 0
 Could be the lack of anti squat. The suspension likely compresses alot while pedaling.
  • 1 0
 30mm BBD is a lot for a bike with 170mm of travel. I think it's that it's got 10mm more travel than we planned for (we lengthened the chainstays and used a longer stroke shock). Also using a coil on a kinematic designed for air... Lots of nerdery here: www.pinkbike.com/news/behind-the-numbers-the-grim-donut.html
  • 6 0
 The long wheelbase comes into play with pedal strikes, depending on terrain. That’s why a jeep won’t high center where something with a long wheelbase but same clearance/tires will
  • 3 0
 @emptybe-er: oh god I hadn't thought of breakover angle...
  • 2 0
 @brianpark: It just needs a bb dropper, pull a trigger and your spring-loaded bb (like a concentric but only moves vertically) moves up 10-15mm for the climbs. Maybe it could just actuate with the post..
  • 3 0
 This is like when Shane McConkey mounted alpine bindings on a pair of water skis. At the time it was ridiculous, but it set off a whole new wave of ski construction. I don't expect XC bikes to have a 57 degree head tube angle any more than I expect XC skis to have full rocker, but Yohann is right that a lot of companies will probably see this and start looking seriously at some wild geometry tweaks.
  • 3 0
 So yea the geometry is designed to make this thing a rocket downhill but an absolute slug going up, but what if we put a motor on it? Pedaling characteristics are way less important on e-bikes because you have a motor putting in a lot of the work, why not optimize the geometry to function the best when the motor isn't being used (downhill) We could call it the Grim-E (grimy) Donut.
  • 5 2
 Paul Aston has essentially done the same thing as the Grim Donut over on Vital, with the difference being every single part of the bike has been considered and designed with purpose. Unbelievable bike. Basically the grim donut but an actual super bike
  • 2 0
 found the article! Thanks for posting and mentioning Paul Aston and his bike.
  • 8 0
 Paul's bike is DOPE but it's 5° steeper and has 40mm more travel.
  • 3 0
 @brianpark: I have to say, Paul's bike might be more realistic than the Grim Donut. Regardless, both bikes are pretty awesome and I loved these 2 PB videos of the Grim Donut. Speaking for myself, unless if I was Racing, I would NOT want anything longer than 1250mm WB and 450mm Reach (My wingspan is 5'9").
  • 5 1
 @HendersonMike:

I'd like to think my bike is a lot more realistic, haha! Mine has been lower and slacker, and then back up to a useable level, and then ridden for thousands of km's on all different terrains!

Thanks, Paul.
  • 2 0
 @paulaston: I am moving back to smaller also. I have found that anything more than 1250mm Wheelbase is just way too much to handle for me. For me, a DH and Enduro Rig should only be about 1225mm with 1250mm being the absolute max. Same with Reach, I am going back smaller. I have played around a lot with Reach the past 4 years, started at about 395 and went all the way up to 490mm, and found out that 430-450mm is my preferred Reach.
  • 2 0
 @paulaston: forgot to mention, your bike is one sick bike! It is truly the Enduro bike of the future. Love the article and all the details that you provided. Unlike the Grim Donut, your Super Enduro rig is something I can see one day owning, but an E-Bike version though.
  • 5 0
 Bike manufactures suddenly interested in this bike after Yoann's performance...
  • 6 0
 WhEn Is GrIm DoNuT 3 CoMiNg OuT I'm So SiCk Of WaItInG!!!???
  • 4 0
 V2 is a 29/27.5 mullet with a 59* HA... that's really bringing the past up to date and could legitimately be the "Right amount of Stupid"
  • 3 0
 I'd like to see a paint job to finish it - or even a paintjob competition. Would be fun to see what that shakes out. I could see this being pink with sprinkles on the top - Simpsons classic iced style. Heavy metal font.
  • 2 0
 Something with sprinkles!
  • 4 0
 First thought: Yoann Barelli is one hell of a rider. Love the way his idea of the fast line is only "suggested" by the trail.

Second thought: SCW1 vs Grim Donut under Yoann.
  • 6 4
 My favorite part was the Pivot CEO saying their pro riders don't ride the current modern stretched out super long geometry?

Why would they? They have elite level riding skills and don't need band aid fixes to ride properly. I've said all along spend your money on maintaining your current excellent fully capable bike and some of the savings on professional coaching to improve your riding skills.

The Grim wasn't supposed to be faster...

Was it editing or just intentional Mike didn't have the pro ride the donut on a tighter trail to get an average time. Like the pro with excellent riding skiils said longer is faster for a particular type of trail but not every where. Same for current geo on sale.

of course the other thing I've always said as it will get pulled back in with comments like the "new" short is more lively, poppy, nimble. Same industry BS, different year.
  • 2 0
 The clock doesn't lie. There is often a disconnect between what people feel is happening and what's really happening (feel vs real). This is common in many sports.

There is no perfect bike for every scenario. Do you take an F1 car to Baja?
  • 2 1
 @haen: current bikes, 29rs in particular dont work on old school tech. They don't fit.

Funny enough a few years back as bikes stretched out there was outrage in North Vancouver about the dumbing down of the shore. Trails getting flowed out so bikes with DH proportions felt better.

The pro rider said this bike won't work most of the time. Even Mike showed that. How far will they roll the clock back to get a bike that might be at least as versatile as a DH bike?

Its a fun experiment for sure but bikes are never going to get to that point on a large scale. Everyone knows that.
  • 3 0
 A couple questions:

1) How did the chain get back on?
2) Can we get side by side race runs? I want to see where the Donut won.
3) Why does it have a dropper remote but no dropper post?
  • 3 0
 Ok now we know that the bike is super fast on the fast trails. But for the slow tech trails, it would be interesting to do the same comparaison to have a better idea. Is it terrible, bad or finally a good surprise after all?
  • 2 0
 pretty impressive considering that the new meta am is at the pointy end of geometry from the major bike companies. that being said, I would have liked to have seen YB do a couple of runs on the meta first to get the trail dialled, then do the timed laps.. im always much faster after my 3rd or 4th run.
  • 2 0
 @mike you need to adjust your front HiLos, and work on the diff and rear anti-roll bar instead. Toss the fat tires. The Mini is a weapon on all surfaces, but you want the rear set up for male dog-pee moves. There should never be more than 3 wheels contacting the ground whenever the steering wheel is turned.

Great video, yet again, congrats!
  • 2 0
 I must admit, people droning on about the Grim Donut, were getting on my nerves a bit. But after seeing this video, I get it! There's obviously a jokey element to the whole 'project', but after seeing those results, it's time to get (mostly) SERIOUS for version 2!!
  • 2 0
 In the video at the end it also says thanks to Chris Porter. Was that merely as inspiration or is he involved somehow?

Now of course this one needs to be grouptested against the Alutech Armageddon. And make it a theme for the next Hack Bike Derby. If there are some out there who are actually willing to push things to extremes Wink .

Either way, whatever they do, keep Yoann in there and it will be good. And Levy's car.
  • 4 0
 I REALLY hope that PB will be selling those Grim Donut T-shirts like what @mikelevy was wearing...
  • 2 0
 @secondtimeuser: thanks - my bad for not looking earlier...
  • 1 0
 @mikelevy european shop or shipping without 73$ shipping fees?
  • 5 0
 Well. Obviously needs a 210 mm travel USD fork and 470 mm chainstays...
  • 2 0
 Grim Donut v2 has to be a mullet, of course. And as modern mullets go, it must have a fork with a reduced offset. So have a 29" fork made with a 26" fork offset, because that's the next wave of the future, obviously.
  • 2 0
 Or just get one of those discontinued linkage forks....
  • 3 0
 For Episode 3, you have to put this in the wild at Chile like Yoann says. How crazy would that be, if the Grim Donut took the podium.
  • 4 0
 Laser Eye Cat Analysis please. I want to know the Anti-Jelly and Sprinkle Spread rates.
  • 5 0
 Commencal is gonna hate this timed laps bits lol
  • 27 0
 I don't think so. Max and co have always respected experimentation, they're not a corporate outfit that can't handle new ideas. And in the real world I don't think the Donut is any competition...
  • 3 0
 In bizzaro world the G Donut is a Commencal!
  • 1 0
 @brianpark: I kid, but that's actually really nice to know. I could see some other brands bringing serious defensiveness into the mix.
  • 5 0
 Is Yoann getting handsomer in retirement, what the hell?
  • 4 0
 Michael J Fox already rode the Grim Donut in the unpublished content of Back to the Future II.
  • 4 0
 Maybe Pinkbike can take all that new Trailfork money and sponsor an athlete to ride the Grim Donut for the next season.
  • 4 1
 When does the GrimE Donut get revealed? I'm thinking an e-bike variant will help with climbing. And throw a Trust fork on it to give it the really long look.
  • 5 0
 Put a Trust Shout fork on this for the full GD effect!!! Smile
  • 5 0
 Chris Porter, Mojo, Nicolai. . .
  • 1 0
 I'm interested in how you found that 83 degree seat tube angle Mike? Most roadie bikes use 76 degree STA's, so I would guess that would have been decided upon as the most efficient STA angle possible.
What did you think and what's the logic in going steeper? Cheers
  • 1 0
 Dont forgot there is actual seat tube angle and effective seat tube angle. The angle on a full sus mtb changes as soon as you sit on the saddle and constantly changes depending on how steep and rough the climb is. There was also a uci rule in either road or time trial where the nose of the saddle was not allowed in front of the vertical center line from the bb.
  • 1 0
 Overall Great Video, and I do see a Future with 1400mm WB and 60 Degree HTA! but only for DH bikes.
Though fast on one segment here, I am not sure how it will do in other sections. This is no trail or enduro bike as you still have to pedal it. I highly doubt even the most fit top pros can pedal this bike through one complete Enduro Round and still be fresh for each and every DH section. I would expect to see many time penalties climbing with the Grim Donut.

For a DH bike where we do NOT have to pedal, longer is most definitely the ticket. It is just easier to go faster on a longer bike. However, to get this thing pointed where we want it to go, must take a lot of work and will be dam tiring. I myself notice the extra work when the WB is "only" 1250mm. Competitive DH Racers are most likely fit enough to ride this bike through a DH weekend, but 90% of us are not. As for me, I am more about fun than all out speed, I want a bike that is easier to work with so I NOT be totally exasperated after only 2 runs. I want to be able to go all day and get in as many runs as possible.

All the manufacturers already know this though, they are going much longer for their DH bikes though, the new Specialized Demo in smallest size has a whopping 1250mm WB! and Demo's largest is 1300mm. I am thinking it can even go longer for the fast guys. Chainstay Length for the Grim Donut is 450mm, which is the same size for CS on the new Demo, and this will most definitely help with stability.
  • 1 0
 - Water bottle inside the front triangle,
- A slightly raised BB and/or Hope 165mm cranks (as they’re pretty short for 165 cranks),
- 29 front and back, or ability to mullet if you want.
- Make the front-centre and rear-centre equal.
- High pivot and idler

Would USD forks help help with the front/rear stiffness/bushing problem? Maybe dorados or an Intend USD? I personally think that people are too hung up in torsional stiffness and underestimate how nice and forgiving a USD fork is when hitting stuff fast and hard.
I personally don’t see a problem with Dual crown forks on an enduro bike (it’s not like you’ll be bad spinning on it.
  • 1 0
 This is such a cool idea and can't wait to see more of the Grim! I'm an engineer with over 20 years working on stuff that people buy. I think it is easy to get in a rut in any industry or product. The way Levy and PB are challenging the norms will very likely spin off new ideas and tech! Can't wait to see it.

One dumb question though... I am totally hooked on the song at the beginning. Can't get it out of my head and cannot find it on the web. What is it? Who is it? Need to hear the whole thing so can stop replaying the hook over and over!
  • 1 0
 @westcoastatheart: Awesome!!! Thank you!!!
  • 4 0
 Of all of the articles I've seen posted on Pinkbike since 1998, this is the absolute best.
  • 2 0
 How did the donut magically get its chain back on? If your saying he stopped, fixed the chain and was still 6 seconds faster, then maybe he needs to burn his Enduro bike?? Lol
  • 1 0
 Make it a bike of the future, I've had this idea for years:
With current technology one bike could have: on the fly geometry flip, suspension lock, seatpost raise/lower, auto gearing, and tire pressure control. These 5 functions would be wireless w/ central control and could be run on automatic, set, custom, manual, or even reactive/adaptive modes. All of the technology exists except the tire pressure systems need improving.
For example one could operate it fully automated, turn the bike downhill and the geo goes slack, suspension opens, seat drops, tire pressure lowers, turn it uphill and the reverse occurs. Or any number of preferred set modes. Or some functions automatic, others manual or set.
Thoughts?
  • 4 0
 The day we've all been waiting for!
  • 5 0
 you fixed the mini!!!
  • 4 0
 Mike, that Mini is so freaking sick.
  • 1 0
 It took a while but you actually did it! Props to PB.

Next iteration: 59 degree head angle, 78 degree seat tube angle, same reach, same chainstay length, normal BB height, bottle holder.
  • 1 0
 So you're telling me that just as geometry is starting to converge and each of us can be happy with our bikes for more years than in the past, you've gone and f***ed that all up?!

I thought you were on our side Levy. Wink
  • 2 0
 A little less extreme across the board and it's a winner. Just a little though. 61°head angle, 79° seat and shorter stays - 440.
  • 5 0
 go read Paul Astons bike check on the other site
  • 2 0
 Put on 140mm cranks and watch those pedal strikes go away. I have them on my Stache -- never hit the ground and the gain ratio is crazy.
  • 3 0
 I was rooting' for that thing.

Auction it off for wildfire charity....with a big liability waiver Smile
  • 3 0
 100% of people after watching this video think their current bike isn't slack enough, myself included
  • 3 0
 Is it just me, or does it look less weird the second time you see it? Almost.... normal?
  • 3 0
 Fork manufacturers better sort out their cryo-creak issues before we get to these head angles...
  • 4 0
 Bravo, this piece was incredible. Mike, you've outdone yourself.
  • 1 0
 I imagine a future where EWS racers have a few bikes to choose from based on the course, or at least a few geo settings. That said, they'd still probably stick to one thing and leave it for the whole year.
  • 3 0
 GOOD SHOW!!! Totally worth the wait! Even had my wife drop work to come watch it! Thanks Pinkbike!
  • 1 0
 V2 Grim: 32" front tire (can you even get a good tire?), 29" rear. Double Crown fork. Split the other dimensions difference between the Grim & a current bike.

You are then honing in on ideal geo for Enduro racing.
  • 1 0
 @mikelevy Please drop the lowers and post a photo of the stanchions. I'm so curious to know if they're gouged, a little worn, or still in perfect shape. I have no idea which it is.
  • 3 0
 Pretty sure they're all good - the fork feels like new and is as slippery as ever Smile
  • 1 0
 @mikelevy: I was sure a linkage fork would be needed for that slack of a head angle when I first saw it, but maybe if it's only being ridden hard on fast downhills, and the rest of the riding is done mostly in the saddle, a telescopic fork won't wear too much faster than it would on what's currently normal for an enduro bike.
  • 4 0
 Best pinkbike video ever, absolute gold.
  • 3 0
 Rockshox missed out by not launching the Zeb on this bike. Like doughnuts and coffee, made for each other!
  • 2 0
 UnF*cking-believable !! It took so long - and not only is it actually ridable it's super fast ?!! Crazy town - can't wait for V2.
  • 2 1
 Wait a second if it’s a bike of future where freak is electric motor and battery??? Clearly something is missing here. Ebikes are future past and present - climbing geo doesn’t matter.
  • 1 0
 Has anyone tried putting a bb and cranks in a crf250 yet? Ker maybe? Prolly should. Cheaper possibly. Definitely more durable. Also requires a bit more effort to get on the lift. But prolly worth it.
  • 3 0
 Head tube could be a bit longer so you could add water bottle mounts on front and sides. Three water bottles!!
  • 1 0
 Good stuff, y'all. I assume a wickedly gusseted headtube ( maybe solid carbon? ) on the next one? haha. It's so cool seeing something as a spoof go really mind blowingly fast! Well played.
  • 1 0
 I want to know what the page views look like for this vs other popular features. Does it get more views than the field test round up videos? If so does that make you happy or sad?
  • 5 6
 C'mon @mikelevy, it’s so obvious that the ‘nut would have been better if it had a 28.99999mm bb spindle, uber mega ultimate wowzer fabulous splendid marvellous supper boost rear hub, magnetic grips and saddle, 969mm handlebars, a 6” travel suspension stem, luminous pink smiley face disc wheel, 24” back wheel, 36” front wheel, 5 – 69 range cassette, ebike option that runs on petrol & of course the most important thing, looks like a Scott Session.
  • 2 0
 Looks a bit like the Nicolai Geometron G1 or the Sick Titanium one, Want one
  • 4 0
 God's be praised
  • 7 0
 I used to be an adventurer like you, then I took a fake grim donut video to the knee
  • 3 0
 People are gonna love the 1.8 tapered steerer now !
  • 1 0
 The more i look at it the more I like it. I wish they'll build a longer reach bike with appropriate size chainstays (about 480 mm or more I guess).
  • 3 0
 Pinkbike needs to put Isak Leivsson on this bike in Chile!
  • 1 0
 Are there any companies using that frame form by Genio? It actually seems like it would be a pretty fun bike with slightly less insane numbers.
  • 3 0
 Damn! My 2020 bike feels old and conservative.
  • 3 0
 This is the greatest hoax in the history of cycling.
  • 3 0
 all this talk about it being "not pretty", i think it looks awesome!
  • 2 0
 Hurtin Hore Nuts have the worst coffee and unhealthy heart attack lumps available world wide.
  • 2 2
 If the geometry was a bit more sensible, what you'd basically have is a Commencal Supreme - which is the single most popular downhill bike around here, so you might actually be onto something!
  • 3 0
 does anyone else think that this would be a great DH bike?
  • 1 0
 I'm not sure that head tube would agree with you, but there's really only one way to find out.
  • 3 0
 If you put a small wheel under the BB you can make it even lower...
  • 1 0
 Can anyone tell me what they use for timing? I notice a watch on his brake, and small yellow pylons. I've been looking for some inexpensive timing tools like that that.
  • 1 0
 Freelap. Definitely not inexpensive.
  • 2 0
 @originalstraygoat: I was seeing a bunch of these type of systems for ~$5,000.00, so for $535usd starting it's not TERRIBLY expensive compared to the others.

Is there not some sort of pylon/sensor that can be purchased that connects to smart phone and uses an app to record when it passes said sensor? Is this more complicating than my brain thinks it is?
  • 1 0
 @Ryan2949: They have blocks now with bluetooth connectivity. You can attach a sensor to your fork and it will sense when they pass. They have an app that it then syncs to. This is the Swiss site.

www.freelap.ch/mtb
  • 2 0
 Longer chainstays, slightly higher BB, Head angle maybe 60 degrees and I'm sold! Oh and some chainslap protection.
  • 3 0
 Best intro to an MTB vid ever!
  • 1 0
 All jokes aside, that bike is surprisingly fast I hope some folks in the industry sit up and take notice. Great content..both substance and entertaining.
  • 3 0
 One thing is for certain, Yoann has kick ass hair.
  • 2 0
 I love this so much. Pinkbike is so far ahead of any other MTB content media, everyone else might as well just give up.
  • 1 0
 Awesome, finally! Congrats on the whole process guys, stella job on fooling around. We all know a lot went into this whole thing, but shit it was worth it!
  • 2 0
 Yes! Waited for this video and it was worth it. Let's get Pinkbike to make this bike.
  • 2 0
 We’re going to end up with insane bikes like this or UCI road biking and time trial levels of stupidity in bike rules
  • 2 0
 This. Reminds me of the skin suit, which is really no different from wearing Lycra. One lone racer will kick ass on a Grim Donut-esqe bike, everyone else will complain, and the UCI will make up a minimum head angle rule of 63 degrees or something.
  • 2 0
 I see a lot of comments but nobody is asking two very important questions: date of launch? and: MSRP?
  • 1 0
 Wow! Well worth the wait! Thanks and more of this Pinkbike! Videos and projects like this really bring you in a league of your own. Cheers!
  • 2 0
 put the fork on backwards, negative offset, and raise the bb at the same time
  • 2 0
 n does not equal 1. We need more pros to put test laps on this thing. You are on to something Mike!
  • 2 0
 I'm think Gwin has just missed another World Cup podium. Should've taken that deal.
  • 2 0
 This was a perfectly chosen track just like the Chile comment. Still, I raise my hands in salute to a job well done.
  • 3 0
 Donut must have a longer wheelbase than the mini!
  • 2 0
 Yoann is such a super great sport to come and ride the Donut! He's the best!!
  • 3 0
 This is incredible! Levy gets a raise for sure!
  • 1 0
 i thought for sure when this video dropped it was going to be a pinkbike press release for the grim donut available for order!
  • 2 0
 And just like that this became the most-desired demo bike in the world. Come on... who doesn't want to try it now?!
  • 2 0
 Lets make a better climber, and more capable downhiller: Carbon frame, oval rings, 2.8 tires, longer fork...
  • 2 0
 I can't wait to demo all the grim donuts at crankworx next year, might even buy one since this is the future
  • 3 0
 Commencal engineering department in disbelief
  • 1 0
 Great video.
Question. Did YB do a 100% effort on his commy?
Now to get Eddie masters on it as he likes shorter and steeper bikes.
  • 2 0
 I still want the mullet option
36" in front
32" in the back.

the future is clear!
  • 1 0
 For the Grim Donut V2 you should really collaborate with Alan Millyard, and get his bike built to your geometry. Imagine that
  • 1 0
 finally, we got the Donut do its job... that took a while.. worth the wait.. cracks me up, that this could be the fastest bike ever in V2, by sheer luck LOL....
  • 1 0
 This is the best thing I've seen in a long time, great job all around. And Yoann seems like an absolute bro and fun guy to be around!
  • 2 0
 This was awesome guys. Genuine shocker when it turned out faster down that track!
  • 3 0
 IT ACTUALLY HAPPENED
  • 1 0
 I think if you steepen the HT a degree and a half it wouldn't be a bad bike.
  • 3 0
 Oh, and Congrats Levy!
  • 3 0
 THE DONUT IS ALIVE!
  • 3 0
 Its just so....long
  • 3 0
 Worth the wait!
  • 3 0
 So worth waiting for.
  • 2 0
 yes, Yes, YEs, YES, YESSSSSSS!!!!!!
  • 3 4
 Just a dumbe question maybe, but is it safe to ride such a slack thing with today fork? I mean, our forks are made to work depending some angles. @SramMedia anything to say here?
  • 1 5
flag emptybe-er (Sep 16, 2020 at 23:05) (Below Threshold)
 It’s much more about the force applied to the headtube rather than the angle that makes a headtube fail. Longer AC length (longer lever) increases force, different angle really doesn’t
  • 3 0
 @emptybe-er: You're technically correct about the length of the lever being the determinant, but you need to have another look at the force vectors - changing the head angle changes the effective length of the lever! Maybe considering the extreme of a 90 degree head angle would help, static load on the flat or huck-to-flat scenario. At 90 degree head angle, 100% of the force acting on the fork is parallel to the stanchions - it does not act as a lever _at all_, the only force at the head tube is the load of bike & rider loaded in shear.

Or think about it from a strength perspective - your shoulders are probably strong enough for you to hold the basic support position on the rings, but I very much doubt you could hold an iron cross.

www.fitstream.com/exercises/ring-training-exercises
  • 1 0
 @dsut4392: so using your iron cross analogy, holding just a few degrees below 90 would require more force than holding 90 with longer arms? Probably so, depending on how much longer.. For a given weight though, longer arms would require more force to hold at 90, right? I’m obviously not a physicist or engineer..
  • 2 0
 it shows it's time vor donut's sister V2 Smile )
  • 2 0
 Proper bikes for racers but please fun bikes for others
  • 2 0
 @mikelevy wins the internet this year.
  • 2 0
 The motion picture event of the year!!
  • 2 0
 i want to see ben Cathro race it at some WC
  • 1 1
 Yoann said a top 5 racer...lol
  • 4 0
 @santacruz-ing: well, apparently, he is on my top 5....
  • 2 0
 "Sounds like a skeleton having a w*nk in a 10 gallon drum"...

Love it!
  • 3 0
 Absolutely superb, PB.
  • 3 0
 Best video ever!
  • 2 0
 At the 2:15 mark... sneaky. 8008135!
  • 1 0
 Yes! came to comment the same thing :-D
  • 2 0
 PB, you guys and girls are crushing it! Give this man a raise!
  • 2 0
 FINALLY!!! I've waited half a year for this!!!!
  • 3 0
 IT'S HAPPENING
  • 2 0
 Have to put a gearbox on it to be real future!
  • 1 0
 Gearbox and a linkage fork.
  • 2 0
 Best video PB has released in a long time!
  • 3 0
 Kickstarter plz!
  • 2 0
 this was worth the wait, loved seeing Yonan ride that bike!
  • 2 0
 Hey ! that was nice, better then apple representation of the new products
  • 2 0
 Freaking COOL! Good job to you bunch of crazy guys!!!
  • 3 0
 do more test laps!!!
  • 3 0
 Well that's just AWESOME
  • 3 0
 Shorter Cranks!
  • 3 0
 New PinkBicycle Company?
  • 2 0
 Doubled checked, just to make sure it wasn't April 1st.
  • 1 0
 This is quite fascinating and was worth the wait. Can't wait to see V2 Yoann is a MACHINE
  • 3 0
 mullet the donut
  • 1 0
 @mikelevy thank you! V2 definitely needs a water bottle holder, and flames.
  • 1 0
 Flames a la 2001 RM7 Wade Simmons Ed.
  • 1 0
 @fabwizard: that was 2003. The RM9 had flames in 2002.
  • 1 0
 @megaold: woops. I better update my add in the buy/sell
  • 1 0
 you mean like, real flames. right?
  • 1 0
 @nullzwo: Yes, from the portable jet packs i added to help me pedal that boat anchor up Fromme.
  • 1 0
 @nullzwo: you're god damn right real flames
  • 2 0
 he actually did it, the madman
  • 2 0
 On all levels that was worth the wait. Bravo to all involved.
  • 2 0
 welp, that's all the proof I need. When can I buy one?
  • 1 0
 If you stare at this bike, long enough, all the new / long / slack bikes, start to look rather short & steep!
  • 1 0
 Need to put that beast up for a charity raffle so I might get a chance to ride it! Good one Pinkbike!!
  • 2 0
 Shut up and take my money!!!
  • 2 0
 +32" wheels = grim pancake
  • 2 0
 I cant believe that thing worked! (Hand firmly planted on forehead!)
  • 2 0
 it needs 31.5" wheels. thats the missing ingredient.
  • 5 3
 We want a Grim Donut E-Bike!
  • 1 0
 Since this is a size small with a 500mm reach, will there be a published size chart through XXL sizing? 620mm in an XXL?
  • 2 0
 Now this was a birthday present! Thanks Pinkbike!
  • 2 1
 Need a RockShox Totem 180mm with the U-Turn to drop it to 150mm so it can be steepened in corners and climbs.
  • 2 0
 Lets bring Aero to mountain bikes - Aero wheels, Frame and forks. .....lol
  • 1 0
 I was hoping for Yoanns signature tac tac tac. Video loses a point for this absence, 9/10.
  • 3 2
 So you’re telling me a super slack, long and low bike will be fast going down but suck climbing? This is ground breaking.
  • 1 0
 Need to have this featured in the Back to the Future reboot.. whenever that happens.
  • 1 0
 You keep saying it's 3 percent faster but according to my maths its closer to 5 percent faster. Don't sell that donut short
  • 1 0
 Loved finally seeing the Grim donut and the t-shit was amazing but $35 shipping to the UK is a joke!!!
  • 1 0
 Grim Donut Part 3: Straightlining every single jump on Whistler's Dirt Merchant
  • 1 0
 Is it possible to change between bikes at a ews?So that racers setup 2 bikes. One playfull and one slack
  • 1 0
 needs a lunch box compartment. An upgrade on the Slash snack hole.
  • 1 1
 Slash hole?
  • 4 3
 They’ve discovered a GeoMetron.
  • 2 0
 Awesome!
  • 1 0
 just like that PB turned 2020 into a great year
  • 2 0
 that was awesome!
  • 1 0
 Dang, this thing made even Levy look fast on the trail
  • 1 0
 I want to see this in EWS. Make me your next privateer and i'll ride it!
  • 1 0
 Oh, no what have you started Razz
  • 1 0
 Hence witnessing the birth of 'enduro r' and 'enduro' seperate bike genres
  • 1 0
 Just curious, what is the bb height off the ground? @mikelevy
  • 1 0
 Next step clear as water. Bring it down to Chile!
  • 1 0
 “You’re thank you”.
  • 1 0
 Doughnut meets Privateer?
  • 2 0
 Needs more cowbell
  • 1 0
 When are we getting a 'Stumbled on Stupid' Grim Donut shirt?
  • 1 0
 What goggles are you wearing at minute 4?
  • 1 0
 so my large g1 is 15mm longer than the Grim Donut
  • 1 0
 I don't see any reason for Levy not being sponsored by Tim Hortons
  • 1 0
 please add more stack... 650-660mm ... thank me later
  • 1 0
 It's beautiful. I love it. A terrible bike for the UK but it's beautiful
  • 1 0
 Fukcing rad Mike, you're onto something here.
  • 1 0
 Great video - Well put together and great content!!
  • 1 0
 If 2020 was riding a bike, it would be this one... While wearing crocs.
  • 1 0
 "HERE'S JOHNNY.. UH..uh I mean Grim Donut.."
  • 1 0
 This video was F**kin' Epic. Bahahahaahahaha.
  • 1 1
 Sorry Gwin, did we interrupt your lunch? Worst thing in the world is speaking to someone on a call while they eat.
  • 1 0
 Amazing to see the process come to this!! Good work PB and Levy!,????
  • 1 0
 worth the wait!!! did not disappoint!!
  • 1 0
 Keep up the good work PB this is pure gold!
  • 1 0
 Is Yoann the Scuba Instructor in "Along came polly"?
  • 1 0
 @mikelevy - wins dirtiest laptop monitor of the year award.
  • 1 1
 v2 needs high pivot slightly steeper head tube angle and higher bottom bracket and send it to ews lol
  • 1 0
 What did it cost you to get your frame made?
  • 1 0
 Never mind I found them, $43 to ship a $22 tshirt counts me out though !!
  • 2 2
 Wow a century later we finally got it
  • 1 0
 AMAZING!! Sugar High.
  • 2 1
 Oh my god!!
  • 1 1
 This is why my XC race bike has a 64 degree head angle.
  • 1 1
 Now the rest of my day is gonna suck
  • 1 1
 I never seen so may comments in such a short time
  • 2 2
 Chris Cocalis's office is sad af 06:20
  • 1 1
 didn't the grim donut beat all the xc bikes at technical climbs too?
  • 1 0
 DH Beach Cruiser!
  • 1 0
 PF92
  • 1 1
 oh to be shut down by Gwin himself
  • 2 1
 Meh...
  • 1 0
 Worth the wait.
  • 1 0
 Patents pending...???
  • 1 0
 8008135 FTW
  • 1 0
 I think you have that backwards and upside down.
  • 2 3
 Did not know Harley Davidson made Mountain Bikes!
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